S03.E13: Our Little Island Girl

[Blakeston]

57 minutes ago, izabella said:

Closer to 25 or 30 years later.  And I don't think using cannabis for cancer patients was a thing 30 years ago. 

Doctors actually prescribing medical marijuana was pretty rare outside of California in the '90s, but people have been using cannabis to treat pain for ages and ages.

Regarding the timeline, I expected young Beth and Zoe to be significantly further apart in age. Melanie Liburd looks significantly younger to me than Susan Kelechi Watson, but Zoe looked to be pretty similar in age to Beth in the flashbacks.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Blakeston

[dcubed]

15 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It wasn't just that - she also told Beth she wasn't going to pay for the dance classes anymore. The message was clearly "I'm not supporting you in wasting your time on this anymore." She handed her the book of colleges and told her they needed to come up with a new plan for Beth's future. I think it's a pretty strong reaction to shut down a child's dream immediately after she loses out on one solo.

She told Beth she wouldn’t pay for dance school anymore.  She looked like she was attending a NY Performing Arts type school which is very expensive.  I don’t think they were just dance classes and if they were, they were expensive, audition-only classes .  

When I was in HS, I took lessons from the principal violist in a major city orchestra.  When I decided (or was decided for me) that I didn’t have the talent for a professional music career, I stopped taking lessons from him ($100/hr) in the late 70’s.  I didn’t stop taking lessons and I didn’t stop playing.  

My overall point is that mom was realistic...a bit cold but realistic.  If Beth wanted to keep going, she could do what many do which is apply for scholarships, work to pay for it and do what was needed to pursue her dream.  I know she was young but many, many young people do this every day.  And in my eyes, she was blessed to have a parent that cared about her future and ability to take care of herself with a realistic career and appeared willing to pay for it.  Children everywhere would wish for those blessings.

[nexxie]

Love, love, love this episode - from writing, to casting, to acting, to sound design - just perfect.

[dcubed]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I enjoyed this episode for so many reasons, including but not limited to getting a break from the emotionally exhausting drama queens who we know as the Pearsons AND getting to see Phylicia Ayers-Allen/Rashad. Even when she isn't being as lovable as Claire Huxtable, she is still so believable. Bonus: Goran Visnjic!

One thing I loved about Beth's trip home was seeing how stifled and pressured she felt by her mother but also seeing how her mother was just trying to make sure that her daughter would have a successful career so that she wouldn't have to work as hard as her own mother did to provide for her family. Knowing that Carol got an education because of her mother's hard work (and despite her father's protest) made it even clearer why she was so determined for Beth to go to college.

That's not to say that she handled it perfectly. She didn't have to cut off all of Beth's dance classes immediately just because she didn't get a solo at the senior showcase. There is still a good possibility that Beth could have received an apprenticeship contract from a dance company and gone on to have a dance career. Probably not a top tier company like ABT but not everyone who gets a contract is a perfect ballerina with flawless technique. I know ballet is not cheap, even at crappy local studios, so I'm guessing that Carol didn't want to invest any more money into something that wouldn't yield a career, but dance is so much more than that. Considering that Abe had just died, it would have been a lot more compassionate for Carol to let Beth keep taking classes for a few more months to give her an outlet for her grief.

I love that Beth found a dance studio and gave herself the opportunity to reconnect with dance. It is never too late to go back. You might not be as strong or flexible as you were as a teenager, but you can still dance.

Loved that Zoe hid some weed behind Big Mama's picture and left it there when she moved out.

Hee, I also totally related to Beth in a small moment this week when she said that the last twenty years had not been kind to her childhood mattress. I still had the same mattress in my old bedroom at my parents' house that they got for me when I got moved out of my crib at the age of 2. It was getting SO uncomfortable to sleep on! A few years ago, I finally made an executive decision and replaced it. I resisted doing it for years because at most I only visit a few times a year so it didn't seem worth it to buy a mattress that I will only sleep on for maybe ten nights a year. But at some point, I just couldn't take it anymore!

There are a lot of excellent dance teachers who do not have dance degrees or education degrees. And there are plenty of studios that employ former dancers to teach without any degrees whatsoever. Most dancers have taken enough classes that they can run a class in their sleep because there is a very specific format and exercises that are universal. For a ballet class, you start with a barre warm up (plies, rond de jambes, battements, etc. always in the same order), then you move on to center floor which is followed by going across the floor, and finally learning combinations/choreography/repertoire. I could have taught my ballet classes by the time I was 12. I don't mean this as a knock on ballet teachers either, because you do need to watch everyone's technique carefully and give individual corrections, but teaching a ballet class is not like teaching a math class. I know high school dancers who were hired to teach the lower level classes at their studios and they clearly had no dance or education degrees. What they did have was years of experience and knowledge.

And there is a HUGE difference between Beth teaching dance (which does not legally require ANY kind of certification) and Kate teaching choir at a high school (which DOES require an undergraduate degree and a teaching certification). Because teaching dance classes does not require a degree or really any kind of certification, it is totally realistic for Beth to become a dance teacher. Kate, on the other hand, was trying to get a job at a high school and that has several requirements, none of which she had. The school could not legally hire Kate to work there without a BA and a teaching certification which is why Kate becoming a teacher is, at this point, unrealistic.

I get they couldn’t hire Kate and why.  I question them hiring Beth...pushing 40 and hasn’t laced up shoes in 20+ years, hasn’t danced professionally, semi-professionally or even starred in her high school senior production.

yes of course dance teachers don’t need degrees but again, just because you do doesn’t mean you can teach.  She has zero experience.  With what is probably thousands of dancers with loads more experience not employed in the chosen career or under-employed in the metro-NY/NJ or Philly area there is no way they would hire her at the swanky studio she’s been shown in.  

If teaching is just about going through a routine and checking if things are performed correctly, Kate, assuming she can read music, has perfect pitch, can sing harmony and knows vocal technique, should be able to teach too.  Maybe not high school but somewhere else.  My point is Beth needs more than “x” years studying ballet.  Much more.  And if she didn’t have it, I wouldn’t pay big money to have her teach my kids.

[dcubed]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Her mother had no way of knowing that.  No one knows what would have happened to "the path not taken".

As someone with a performing arts background, if you haven’t stood out by high school, you’re 99% not going to make it.  I stood out and then was  background scenery in college.  No one that knew anything about music pegged me to have a career in it and they were right.

[nexxie]

7 hours ago, llewis823 said:

Would someone who has just danced in dance classes 20 years or so ago and maybe did it around the house or at exercise classes since then be qualified to be a ballet teacher? Not that I have any idea on earth what would qualify as qualified to teach ballet. I just know I have been drawing my entire life, took art in school and one art class in college and I get compliments on my drawing and lettering and always have. But am I qualified to teach it? Not in a million years.

I had the same question - hopefully they’ll address that in the future.

[dcubed]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It would have been better if they were caught smoking weed.  I wonder what would happen if Beth's mom caught them.  Would she boot them out of the house?

Her mother would have noticed the odor.  That odor can't be hidden.

It would have been funny, if not a bit out of character, if she had joined them.  Didn’t Beth say she had left-over weed from her father when she smoked with William?  There’s a lot of old weed in that home.

[WhosThatGirl]

11 minutes ago, dcubed said:

As someone with a performing arts background, if you haven’t stood out by high school, you’re 99% not going to make it.  I stood out and then was  background scenery in college.  No one that knew anything about music pegged me to have a career in it and they were right.

And as I said in a previous post, the school cost a lot of money more than likely and money was probably going to become tight in regards to beths father dying. I mean college coat money as well but her mother probably was starting to work with her in the hopes she would get a scholarship of some kind. Which she probably did. I don’t see anything wrong with Beths mom sitting her down and telling her as much.

 Beth could have kept dancing. Her mom never said on screen “you need to stop dancing” she just said she couldn’t keep paying for the school.. which is understandable. 

I also honestly didn’t see much of a problem with how she handled Beth not having a job either? She offered to sit down and help her. Maybe that’s where the disconnect is for me with this episode.  I mean Beth wanted something different with her life but I’m not entirely clear that it is all on her mom. 

[hula-la]

1 hour ago, tvaddict44 said:

Thank you to all who called the actor's name for the ballet instructor.  I knew that voice and face but couldn't remember where I saw him last.  Of course it was Luka from ER! How could I forget ... Please come back to my TV more often...

He was on a TV show called "Crossing Lines, starting in Season 3". It's available on Netflix.

[Quark]

Great episode.

Flashback Randall was adorable.

[ShadowFacts]

26 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I also honestly didn’t see much of a problem with how she handled Beth not having a job either? She offered to sit down and help her. Maybe that’s where the disconnect is for me with this episode.  I mean Beth wanted something different with her life but I’m not entirely clear that it is all on her mom. 

The way I experienced it, and why I liked it, is that it wasn't all on her mom.  Beth looked at her father's old chair and the scene morphed to her as a teen, and then in a beautifully acted scene she told him she couldn't do it without him.  Also, she had a chance to air her feelings to her mother, her mother resisted at first but then explained herself and apologized, which Beth responded to by saying she knows her path then led her to Randall and all she has now.  That happened at warp speed, but aside from that, it felt balanced to me. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Shout out to Hanson on the cover of Seventeen magazine. 

My heart sank when that other black girl walked in.  I knew it was over for her then because I’ve been there too. 

[TwoGrayTabbies]

58 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I get they couldn’t hire Kate and why.  I question them hiring Beth...pushing 40 and hasn’t laced up shoes in 20+ years, hasn’t danced professionally, semi-professionally or even starred in her high school senior production.

yes of course dance teachers don’t need degrees but again, just because you do doesn’t mean you can teach.  She has zero experience.  With what is probably thousands of dancers with loads more experience not employed in the chosen career or under-employed in the metro-NY/NJ or Philly area there is no way they would hire her at the swanky studio she’s been shown in.  

If teaching is just about going through a routine and checking if things are performed correctly, Kate, assuming she can read music, has perfect pitch, can sing harmony and knows vocal technique, should be able to teach too.  Maybe not high school but somewhere else.  My point is Beth needs more than “x” years studying ballet.  Much more.  And if she didn’t have it, I wouldn’t pay big money to have her teach my kids.

Realistically, Beth’s teaching opportunities would be limited to storefront dance studios or organizations like the YMCA.  Which is a nice part-time job for a student or SAHM, but not something that could support her family’s Alpine lifestyle.

This might well be my last TIU post because I’m exasperated past patience with the fantasy careers and lifestyles.  I might check in from time to time to check my prediction that Toby chucks the soulless IT career to become a ventriloquist or a tightrope walker and succeeds fabulously because he’s Pursuing his Passion.

[DFWGina]

40 minutes ago, hula-la said:

He was on a TV show called "Crossing Lines, starting in Season 3". It's available on Netflix.

he was also on Timeless.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, dcubed said:

As someone with a performing arts background, if you haven’t stood out by high school, you’re 99% not going to make it.  I stood out and then was  background scenery in college.  No one that knew anything about music pegged me to have a career in it and they were right.

I sang all through school. I never had any inclination that I was going to make a living singing. I have musicians who have made it in my family, but I never thought that was going to be me. In college an old friend asked me why I never tried to make a career out of singing and I said "I'm not good enough." I'm not - it's not an impostor syndrome thing, it's a fact. I have the kind of voice where I like to sing and if people hear me singing they say "You have a good voice!" but ain't nobody giving me a record deal.

There was a guy a year behind me in high school who actually did get into Joffrey after high school and danced for ten years before retiring and going to college; I don't think he does anything with dance now. People (other boys) teased him for being a male ballet dancer until he performed at an assembly - he was amazing, it was clear he was the real deal, AND his body was incredible, so people shut up after that.

Counterpoint: I have a high school classmate who is STILL trying to be a rapper, and he was never a good rapper to begin with. He would spit some weak freestyle at parties but nobody took that seriously because it wasn't particularly good. Nobody knew him for rapping when we were in high school - if anything, it was drawing (and I think he went to college for graphic design). I ran into him in a train station maybe six years after graduation and asked what he was up to and he said "Still doing the hip-hop thing," and I was thinking "What do you mean 'still?' When did you start?"

28 minutes ago, Quark said:

Great episode.

Flashback Randall was adorable.

He's so nerdy cute. "Adorkable."

I swear I saw Goran Visnjic in something post-ER and his hair was completely gray; maybe they dyed it for this.

[babs j.]

I've seen every episode of This Is Us and my interest is beginning to wane.  I hope Kate's baby being born - and being born healthy - is this season's last episode.  Maybe my enthusiasm will be back by the time Fall rolls around.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Young Beth actor even had that black mark on her pupil like Adult Beth.  That was crazy.

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, colorbars said:

The actress playing Teen Beth was perfect, both casting wise and talent wise. It's a shame we won't see her much, but hopefully she'll get to pop back up for college flashbacks.

Super talented.

Oh damn, I forgot the funniest part.  When Zoe said something to avoid the conversation about Phyllicia retiring like, "What... is this crab in the salad?" (or something) and Beth said "Shut up."  That made me laugh and laugh

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[CrystalBlue]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Random thoughts:

I didn't realize that Clair Huxtable had joined the cast.   That is exactly who Phylicia Rashad sounded and acted like, the same old character she played on "The Cosby Show".

Smokng weed in her mom's house?  There is no way in the world that her mom wouldn't smell that.

There is also know way that the joint wouldn't have been found long ago.  Those pictures on the wall didn't look the least bit dusty.  I am sure they were taken down and dusted.

I did like that "Bethany" had crossed out her name on the name tag and wrote "Beth".  Was that a bit of defiance against her mother?  

Beth then bumps into Randall.   Not surprising.

I did like Beth's dad, he was totally awesome.

I wasn't much of a "The Cosby Show" watcher, so I'll take your word for it.  I enjoyed PR's performance either way.

Yeah, I think Mama Clarke would smell it in the morning.

People can dust off their wall hanging and other adornments without taking them off the wall; I do it all the time with a feather duster.

I took Bethany shortening her name to Beth as a new beginning for her, since she was starting college and not dancing anymore.

Loved Carl Lumbly's Papa Clarke.  It was nice seeing him on my TV again.

Edited February 21, 2019 by CrystalBlue
Clarke not Clark.

[t7686]

This episode was great. I loved seeing Beth's family and more of her back story. I'm a little sad we didn't get more of her siblings - though I get that it would be hard to make us care about characters we're just introduced to in addition to young Zoe and Beth's parents. I hope they come around again soon, it would be interesting to see how other families function beside the Pearsons. Young Beth was so spot on it was uncanny. That quiet, wide eyed but tough thing older Beth does, the younger actress completely captured it. 

The writers got Jamaican mom's spot on.  Phylicia Rashad was amazing and reminded me so much of my own tough, sometimes scary but ultimately loving Jamaican mom. I think she could have been a little softer in her approach but I don't think she was completely wrong with telling Beth that unfortunately, it just wasn't going to happen and she should find another path. Sometimes just because you want something, doesn't mean you're going to get it and that's life. I can't explain how, but they totally captured the slight differences between Caribbean American culture and general American culture.

[Biggie B]

18 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh damn, I forgot the funniest part.  When Zoe said something to avoid the conversation about Phyllicia retiring like, "What... is this crab in the salad?" (or something) and Beth said "Shut up."  That made me laugh and laugh

Clams...Zoe asked if there were clams in there, as a reference to Beth clamming up around her mother. And yes, that was really snarky and funny of Zoe to say that!

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't normally like things all tied up with a bow in one episode, but this wasn't bad.  We did see her mom and dad discuss both having to work extra, and agreeing to do it, and we saw mom sewing her costumes and being involved, over a period of years.  They way it played to me was that mom's tough love was very effective in her job, and a little harder on her own children at home, but in the end, as Beth said, her path got her a job she loved for 12 years, Randall and her girls. 

I think Beth's mom saw the writing on the wall when Beth wasn't cast in the production of Swan Lake.  The world of ballet is very, very competitive, and for a Little Island Girl, would be even more so.  I think Mrs. Clarke gave her daughter a future in enforcing her choose-a-college edict she had done with the other siblings.

Edited February 21, 2019 by CrystalBlue
Clarke not Clark.

[BoogieBurns]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Of course, Rebecca being white and a higher social class would have a much harder time figuring out how to take care of her family.  Carol did not have the luxury to wallow in her grief for weeks on end.  

Is there any evidence at all that the Pearsons were at a higher social class than the... Clarke's? (unsure of the spelling of Clark/e).

Beth's family is a two income household with 3 siblings and a sister-cousin in DC. The Pearson's circa 1998 were a one income household with triplets and a self built home in Pittsburgh. It's fair to say they were pretty equal if all we are comparing is houses and number of incomes vs mouths to feed.

[sunshine23]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

There was one scene which could be read as creepy - where Goran's character was talking to young Beth about her talent.  

My husband was watching with me, and his first comment during this scene was "He's a pedophile." I was so hoping he was wrong. Thankfully he was.

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

So many beautiful people to look at in this episode.  Susan Kelechi Watson and Melanie Liburd are just stunning.

I cannot agree more! I love both of their styles.  So glad Beth got her moment in the sun.

Edited February 21, 2019 by sunshine23

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

TIU and New Amsterdam get shelved for the week for the season premiere of JLo's dance competition show.

Ugh.

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I really don't care about JLO's dance show...

I watched from the beginning and ended up not being able to take any more of it, mainly because of JLo's biases and attention getting antics.  (She wanted everyone to know she is the producer and star of this show!)

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Is there any evidence at all that the Pearsons were at a higher social class than the... Clarke's? (unsure of the spelling of Clark/e).

Beth's family is a two income household with 3 siblings and a sister-cousin in DC. The Pearson's circa 1998 were a one income household with triplets and a self built home in Pittsburgh. It's fair to say they were pretty equal if all we are comparing is houses and number of incomes vs mouths to feed.

I got the impression that Beth's family was not poor but with the medical bills from her fathers cancer would definitely hurt them financially.   He appears to work some kind of security job that I can't see him working fulltime while undergoing chemo.  I can't see them having a large savings account or having large insurance policies.  They were a one income family for probably months before he passed.  

On the other hand, the Pearsons were able to afford a cabin as well as the family home.  We have also been shown the unemployed Rebecca had enough insurance money to consider buying a new house.  Jack seemed to carry enough insurance to provide for his family in case of emergency.  Of course this is a TV show where the characters always have enough money for everything until a new plot arises. 

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, tvaddict44 said:

Thank you to all who called the actor's name for the ballet instructor.  I knew that voice and face but couldn't remember where I saw him last.  Of course it was Luka from ER! How could I forget ... Please come back to my TV more often...

His name just happened to jump out at me while the starting credits were being displayed.  I was like, YES!!!

[preeya]

11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I didn't realize that Clair Huxtable had joined the cast.   That is exactly who Phylicia Rashad sounded and acted like, the same old character she played on "The Cosby Show".

I got the distinct impression she (Rashad) was doing an impersonation of the Debbie Allen character from Grey's Anatomy.

[Norma Desmond]

God, I love Carl Lumbly. He manages to infuse so much emotion and humanity, even in small roles.

Lumbly and Goran totally elevated the episode.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Norma Desmond

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Realistically, Beth’s teaching opportunities would be limited to storefront dance studios or organizations like the YMCA.  Which is a nice part-time job for a student or SAHM, but not something that could support her family’s Alpine lifestyle.

This might well be my last TIU post because I’m exasperated past patience with the fantasy careers and lifestyles.  I might check in from time to time to check my prediction that Toby chucks the soulless IT career to become a ventriloquist or a tightrope walker and succeeds fabulously because he’s Pursuing his Passion.

Don't leave us now!  If the rest of us can enjoy Philadelphia's wintertime with summer breezes and green landscapes and TIU's time-warp travel, can't you just look past it all and color the Pearsons incredibly lucky in financial security despite being unemployed?  😄

[OpalNightstream]

I thought some of the script came across as clumsy when Beth’s mom kept trying to explain where the other siblings were “we already told your brothers and sister” when explaining the lung cancer. Then “ I picked uo Chinese food after dropping your brothers and sister at the train”. 

[CrystalBlue]

56 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Is there any evidence at all that the Pearsons were at a higher social class than the... Clarke's? (unsure of the spelling of Clark/e).

Beth's family is a two income household with 3 siblings and a sister-cousin in DC. The Pearson's circa 1998 were a one income household with triplets and a self built home in Pittsburgh. It's fair to say they were pretty equal if all we are comparing is houses and number of incomes vs mouths to feed.

IMdb has it spelled as Clarke!  Should I go back and change all my references to that name to spell correctly?  😊

Edited February 21, 2019 by CrystalBlue

[Icuraqt]

Long time lurker (on all the forums, actually- going through project Runway as we speak) I think the simple reason Zoe was much more likeable in this episode than the ones that feature her w Kevin is because their relationship is strained, and the one she has with Beth isn't. I loved this episode as well. I actually haven't grown tired of the show. The only thing that irks me the slightest is no one in the background ever seems star struck by Kevin. (Pittsburgh in winter doesn't bother this desert dweller 😊)

[tennisgurl]

48 minutes ago, OpalNightstream said:

we already told your brothers and sister” when explaining the lung cancer. Then “ I picked uo Chinese food after dropping your brothers and sister at the train”. 

The constant references to Beth's sibling, but them never actually showing up, practically made it seem like they didnt really exist, or have been dead for years, and mom is just in denile, and everyone else just humors her. "Yes, your brother and sister are right here, say hi to Beth kids..."*Two dolls that look like kids are revealed on a rolling chair*

And then its basically a Twilight Zone episode. 

[Kdawg82]

I enjoyed the episode with a few exceptions. 

Positive: Great casting especially on young Beth. The young woman playing Beth had her down to a tee. 

I love seeing how different families and personalities develop and mesh. We become the product of our upbringing/experiences of our youth and somehow partner with someone who had a different upbringing and have to now make it work and raise your own family.  It's a lot and a fascinating study. One thing Randall & Beth may have bonded over upon meeting was the grief of the sudden losses of their fathers. I hope we see more of the two. 

Negative: I don't like when they tie up these complicated relationships neatly with a bow💝. I grew up with a hard as nails mother who stifled my ambitions and believe me- the day she would apologize to me would be an ice cold day in hell. I know every situation may be different so I'll go along for the ride.  It was so natural and relatable when Beth told her mom that she can't open up to her husband - the one in the world she should be closest to- what her dreams are. I just didn't expect mom to apologize. No f'n way. It would've been "ok! You had it bad?! You should've had *my* life!" And storming off. 

Side note: Last week I appreciated the "uncle Nicky" storyline not being tied up neatly with a bow. Just saying "goodbye. See you around, maybe" was satisfying for me regarding those characters and their personalities. 

[theatremouse]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Having it all resolved in one episode made the whole "Beth isn't good enough to dance" thing seem rushed.  If this had played out over multiple episodes with multiple auditions and failures, I would probably feel differently, but given how quickly Beth was told to "choose another path", makes me think she got screwed.

99.5% of children who study ballet, even at elite academies like Beth was shown to, will not become professionals. Many might continue in other styles of dance, or become ballet teachers, or just no do it at all. Not getting the solo was good enough reason for her mother to conclude she had no major future in this. The stage Beth was shown at, given the training she was doing, was basically it. Like her mother mentioned when they were originally discussing it: the whole point of the program she was in was to get to that senior performance. Even if she'd gotten the solo, her chances of becoming a pro were still very low. Not getting that solo made them astronomically low. It's not like acting where you might audition and audition for years and maybe continue classes and eventually might get a big break. With ballet it's basically now or never by the end of high school. 

7 hours ago, izabella said:

Closer to 25 or 30 years later.  And I don't think using cannabis for cancer patients was a thing 30 years ago. 

It was 21 years ago at most. The college book her mother handed her said 1998.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Young Beth actor even had that black mark on her pupil like Adult Beth.  That was crazy.

That was one funky contact lens, but major commitment to continuity that they had her wear one.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Her mother had no way of knowing that.  No one knows what would have happened to "the path not taken".

My understanding of ballet is that Beth was at an age where it was very unlikely her dancing would suddenly improve to the level where she could have made it as a professional ballerina.  It wasn't that she was a poor dancer, only that her skill level was nothing extraordinary.  So yes, it's possible if she had kept at it, she may have made significant strides in her dancing going forward, but that was a very unlikely outcome.   

[bluebox]

13 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

There was a close-up of Teen Beth's face where they showed a mole on her right side. Later there was a close-up of Adult Beth and there was a mole in the same place! Kudos to both make-up and the Continuity Fairy. Now if they could only be so precise in showing Pittsburgh winter weather.

They also matched up the dark spot on her eye (I presume with a contact). Cheers for the tiniest of details!

[Snewtsie]

So.

So.

So.

Boring.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Regarding the timeline, I expected young Beth and Zoe to be significantly further apart in age. Melanie Liburd looks significantly younger to me than Susan Kelechi Watson, but Zoe looked to be pretty similar in age to Beth in the flashbacks.

In real life, they are 6 years apart.

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

(I thought it was interesting that much was made about Beth not having a ballet dancer's body but the other Black dancer didn't either - she was kind of thick, and I mean that as a compliment.)

11 hours ago, DFWGina said:

Yes - the new ballet dancer was definitely not a ballet dancer body but both were exquisite!  

I noticed that the other dancer was also curvier then the iconic ballerina is supposed to be. In fact, teen Beth, although quite slim, was curvier than adult Beth.

On 2/19/2019 at 10:24 PM, BuckeyeLou said:

She finally can join together her passion & her need for a job.  Although, I would not think she would make as much money as she did before in her professional job, and wonder how she & Randall are going to afford their big house & life style. 

Wasn't Beth working part-time for years so she could be with the girls, and only went full-time after Randall had his breakdown and retired?  She probably did ok, but not nearly as well as Randall.

On 2/19/2019 at 10:24 PM, BuckeyeLou said:

.Beth's mother finally apologized to her for taking away her dreams.

On 2/19/2019 at 10:32 PM, txhorns79 said:

I kind of roll my eyes at this.  I think they did a decent job of showing that Beth wasn't good enough, and her mother didn't take away any dream so much as help reintroduce some reality into the household.  I always think back to Marie Calvet from Mad Men telling Megan that she should consider doing work other than acting because: "not every little girl can do what she wants; the world cannot support that many ballerinas."

On 2/19/2019 at 10:35 PM, PepSinger said:

But she didn't have to make Beth stop dancing. She could've danced non-competitively. That didn't even seem like an option with Beth's mom.

On 2/19/2019 at 10:37 PM, nilyank said:

Beth could have continued to take dance in college while doing some other major.

23 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It wasn't just that - she also told Beth she wasn't going to pay for the dance classes anymore. The message was clearly "I'm not supporting you in wasting your time on this anymore." She handed her the book of colleges and told her they needed to come up with a new plan for Beth's future. I think it's a pretty strong reaction to shut down a child's dream immediately after she loses out on one solo.

As others have said, it would have made sense for her to guide her towards a college with a strong dance program, where she could double major in dance and something more job-friendly, or minor in dance, and perform in the many dance troupes said college would have.  Since the very dance dancers would be in dedicated dance programs, Beth would have had a very good chance and getting solos

I do wonder when Beth had the time to get her homework done to the satisfaction of her mother and a college like Carnegie Mellon that was challenging enough for Randall.  I actually thought that when Carol said to Beth that they would pay for her classes but that she expected her to give it her all, that she was going to say that she expected the dancing not to interfere with her school work.

On 2/19/2019 at 11:27 PM, movingtargetgal said:

Kate deciding to be a singer at the age of 37 and is able to afford fertility treatments. 

Kate is married to Toby.  Toby has a good job and she would be on Toby's insurance.  It wouldn't be an issue.

23 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Kate broadcasts her sob story to everyone she meets and expects to be pitied, but never stops to consider that maybe other people have experienced a traumatic loss of a beloved parent as well.

And although Jack's death was a huge shock, Beth had to endure watching her father suffer before he died.

17 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Oddly, unlike most others who've mentioned it, I thought Goran V's accent was far more pronounced than when he was on ER. 

11 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I wonder if Goran Visnjic was trying to sound more like a Russian for his character? He talked about seeing Mischa- Russian ballet and all that...

I too thought that we were supposed to think he was Russian.

14 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Jeesh, what next? Will we have to travel back in time to live through Toby's childhood? Or have they already done that? I can't remember. 

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I thought we did get part of Toby's past in one episode.  Perhaps it was the episode where he had gone off his medication.

We saw Toby's childhood in the episode concerning his breakdown.  his mother was Wendie Malick, and suffered from depression. His father left after his baby brother was born.  He told jokes to make his mother happy.

12 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Of course, Rebecca being white and a higher social class would have a much harder time figuring out how to take care of her family.  Carol did not have the luxury to wallow in her grief for weeks on end.  

5 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Beth's family is a two income household with 3 siblings and a sister-cousin in DC. The Pearson's circa 1998 were a one income household with triplets and a self built home in Pittsburgh. It's fair to say they were pretty equal if all we are comparing is houses and number of incomes vs mouths to feed.

 Jack had an office version of the blue-collar work he had previously done, and never attended college.  Rebecca went to college but never worked a steady job.  Beth's father was a security guard, I suppose, but her mother was college-educated and likely working in a school, so I think, (disregarding life-insurance policies) that Carol was probably in a much better position with a career and only one kid left at home, vs Rebecca, who was unemployed, had no marketable skills and still had all 3 kids at home.

9 hours ago, PRgal said:

30?  I'm pretty sure Beth was a junior or senior when her dad died.  That would be more like 22 years.  Beth is the same age as Randall, so she would have graduated high school in '98.

The college guide book her mother gave her said '98.  Although she said it was the same book she had given her older siblings, which would mean it was years later, I assume she meant a new version of the same book, but then, why did she have it around?  She didn't know until just before that Beth didn't get the solo. That bothered me.

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Young Beth actor even had that black mark on her pupil like Adult Beth.  That was crazy.

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

That was one funky contact lens, but major commitment to continuity that they had her wear one.

I assumed it's a (large) contact lens on young Beth.

3 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

One thing Randall & Beth may have bonded over upon meeting was the grief of the sudden losses of their fathers.

That's an excellent point.

[Emily Thrace]

8 hours ago, dcubed said:

She told Beth she wouldn’t pay for dance school anymore.  She looked like she was attending a NY Performing Arts type school which is very expensive.  I don’t think they were just dance classes and if they were, they were expensive, audition-only classes .  

When I was in HS, I took lessons from the principal violist in a major city orchestra.  When I decided (or was decided for me) that I didn’t have the talent for a professional music career, I stopped taking lessons from him ($100/hr) in the late 70’s.  I didn’t stop taking lessons and I didn’t stop playing.  

My overall point is that mom was realistic...a bit cold but realistic.  If Beth wanted to keep going, she could do what many do which is apply for scholarships, work to pay for it and do what was needed to pursue her dream.  I know she was young but many, many young people do this every day.  And in my eyes, she was blessed to have a parent that cared about her future and ability to take care of herself with a realistic career and appeared willing to pay for it.  Children everywhere would wish for those blessings.

I just have trouble with the idea that there wasn't a compromise to be had. There are quite a few academic schools like Yale for instance that have good dance programs. Not too mention the timing seemed almost cruel. It one thing to be honest, it's another to continue crushing your child's dreams right after they were kicked in the teeth. It was insensitive at best and a parenting miss step for that reason IMO.

[Sarahsmile416]

12 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

In real life, they are 6 years apart.

I noticed that the other dancer was also curvier then the iconic ballerina is supposed to be. In fact, teen Beth, although quite slim, was curvier than adult Beth.

Wasn't Beth working part-time for years so she could be with the girls, and only went full-time after Randall had his breakdown and retired?  She probably did ok, but not nearly as well as Randall.

As others have said, it would have made sense for her to guide her towards a college with a strong dance program, where she could double major in dance and something more job-friendly, or minor in dance, and perform in the many dance troupes said college would have.  Since the very dance dancers would be in dedicated dance programs, Beth would have had a very good chance and getting solos

I do wonder when Beth had the time to get her homework done to the satisfaction of her mother and a college like Carnegie Mellon that was challenging enough for Randall.  I actually thought that when Carol said to Beth that they would pay for her classes but that she expected her to give it her all, that she was going to say that she expected the dancing not to interfere with her school work.

Kate is married to Toby.  Toby has a good job and she would be on Toby's insurance.  It wouldn't be an issue.

And although Jack's death was a huge shock, Beth had to endure watching her father suffer before he died.

I too thought that we were supposed to think he was Russian.

We saw Toby's childhood in the episode concerning his breakdown.  his mother was Wendie Malick, and suffered from depression. His father left after his baby brother was born.  He told jokes to make his mother happy.

 Jack had an office version of the blue-collar work he had previously done, and never attended college.  Rebecca went to college but never worked a steady job.  Beth's father was a security guard, I suppose, but her mother was college-educated and likely working in a school, so I think, (disregarding life-insurance policies) that Carol was probably in a much better position with a career and only one kid left at home, vs Rebecca, who was unemployed, had no marketable skills and still had all 3 kids at home.

The college guide book her mother gave her said '98.  Although she said it was the same book she had given her older siblings, which would mean it was years later, I assume she meant a new version of the same book, but then, why did she have it around?  She didn't know until just before that Beth didn't get the solo. That bothered me.

I assumed it's a (large) contact lens on young Beth.

That's an excellent point.

13 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

In real life, they are 6 years apart.

I noticed that the other dancer was also curvier then the iconic ballerina is supposed to be. In fact, teen Beth, although quite slim, was curvier than adult Beth.

Wasn't Beth working part-time for years so she could be with the girls, and only went full-time after Randall had his breakdown and retired?  She probably did ok, but not nearly as well as Randall.

As others have said, it would have made sense for her to guide her towards a college with a strong dance program, where she could double major in dance and something more job-friendly, or minor in dance, and perform in the many dance troupes said college would have.  Since the very dance dancers would be in dedicated dance programs, Beth would have had a very good chance and getting solos

I do wonder when Beth had the time to get her homework done to the satisfaction of her mother and a college like Carnegie Mellon that was challenging enough for Randall.  I actually thought that when Carol said to Beth that they would pay for her classes but that she expected her to give it her all, that she was going to say that she expected the dancing not to interfere with her school work.

Kate is married to Toby.  Toby has a good job and she would be on Toby's insurance.  It wouldn't be an issue.

And although Jack's death was a huge shock, Beth had to endure watching her father suffer before he died.

This is the one place where I would have to quibble. Yes, she had to watch him suffer, but she also knew he was likely going to die so she could prepare herself. My grandfather died of lung cancer when my mom was 15 and she has always told me that while his death was devastating for her it helped that she could prepare herself.  Sudden deaths can be harder just because there is no preparation.  Obviously though everyone is different and has different experiences.

13 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I too thought that we were supposed to think he was Russian.

We saw Toby's childhood in the episode concerning his breakdown.  his mother was Wendie Malick, and suffered from depression. His father left after his baby brother was born.  He told jokes to make his mother happy.

 Jack had an office version of the blue-collar work he had previously done, and never attended college.  Rebecca went to college but never worked a steady job.  Beth's father was a security guard, I suppose, but her mother was college-educated and likely working in a school, so I think, (disregarding life-insurance policies) that Carol was probably in a much better position with a career and only one kid left at home, vs Rebecca, who was unemployed, had no marketable skills and still had all 3 kids at home.

The college guide book her mother gave her said '98.  Although she said it was the same book she had given her older siblings, which would mean it was years later, I assume she meant a new version of the same book, but then, why did she have it around?  She didn't know until just before that Beth didn't get the solo. That bothered me.

I assumed it's a (large) contact lens on young Beth.

That's an excellent point.

[Zero260]

Look quickly and closely at teen Bethany’s left eyeball. They somehow were able to duplicate Susan Kelechi Watson’s iris ‘spot’. I’m impressed. That young actress nailed her performance as well. 

[sunshine23]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

On 2/19/2019 at 11:27 PM, movingtargetgal said:

Kate deciding to be a singer at the age of 37 and is able to afford fertility treatments. 

Kate is married to Toby.  Toby has a good job and she would be on Toby's insurance.  It wouldn't be an issue.

Insurance does not pay for fertility treatments.

[ShadowFacts]

52 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If her "dream squasher" of a mother had died instead of her nice dad, perhaps things would have turned out differently.

I can't help it,  I root for happy endings and underdogs.

And then she would not have gone to college and met Randall.  If she had beaten the odds and become a professional, at this stage of her life she would probably be done dancing.  And no Randall, no children.  I think she got something invaluable, and long-lasting, in the trade-off. 

[dcubed]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I wonder how many people told that Seattle defensive player that he would never make it in the NFL with only one hand, but yet there he is playing professional football.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/30/first-one-handed-nfl-player-shares-motto-that-kept-him-from-quitting.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shaquem-griffin-seattle-seahawks-linebacker-talks-to-60-minutes-on-his-hand-amputation-and-pact-with-his-brother-shaquill/

Now, there is no guarantee that Beth would reach her goals, but it sure as heck seemed like she was forced to quit them awfully early.

I think the writers of this episode made a huge mistake in not having Beth continue in her attempts to have a dance career.  If she had to stop, have her stop do to injury.  Beth doesn't seem like a person that would quit on her dreams.

If her "dream squasher" of a mother had died instead of her nice dad, perhaps things would have turned out differently.

I can't help it,  I root for happy endings and underdogs.

Not paying for her expensive dance conservatory doesn’t squash dreams. Beth could have continued a less expensive route.  She did quit on her dreams when she put away her ballet shoes for 20+ years.  As someone else said in a different post, she even said to her dad’s empty chair that she couldn’t do it without him.  

Great inspirational story about the football players but I don’t think they’re comparable.  One required tens of thousands in investment (dad has to get a 2nd job), one required minor investment (weights, tackling blocks, etc).  One had two involved parents. One was a single mother.  When one was told she couldn’t get expensive lessons, she quit.  When the other was not drafted, he continued to work out.  But the biggest thing that makes them different is that one had a brother constantly bringing the other up for consideration.  If Beth had a Shaquell maybe things would have been different.  

This is a YMMV and we probably won’t agree and that’s ok.

[dcubed]

32 minutes ago, sunshine23 said:

Insurance does not pay for fertility treatments.

It is a requirement in 16 states that insurance pay for infertility treatment, including IVF.  

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

In real life, they are 6 years apart.

In the flashbacks, Beth and Zoe looked to be maybe two years apart. I've aways assumed Zoe was supposed to be significantly younger than Beth, but I guess not.

8 minutes ago, dcubed said:

It is a requirement in 16 states that insurance pay for infertility treatment, including IVF.  

California law requires health insurers to cover infertility treatments - except for in vitro fertilization.

Toby made a comment about how much in vitro was costing them, so it doesn't sound like it's being subsidized for them.

[llewis823]

1 hour ago, sunshine23 said:

Insurance does not pay for fertility treatments.

Very true. I know from my own experience and my daughter's experience.