S02.E01: Brother

[Bort]

The crew of the U.S.S. Discovery joins forces with Captain Pike to unravel the mystery of seven mysterious red signals that have appeared across the universe.

Airdate: Thursday, January 17, 2019

[ae2]

Sounds like the plot of a Doctor Who episode!

I'm excited to see Captain Pike.

[marinw]

So after over fifty years, Star Trek has returned to where it began, with Captain Pike Enterprise. I’ve always felt protective of this part of the canon, but whatever.

The actress playing Amanda looks familiar. 

That said, I am charmed by this Pike. I want to send him a message from the future not to rush in and save those cadets and then take all those Delta Rays.

[starri]

19 minutes ago, marinw said:

The actress playing Amanda looks familiar. 

I assume it's the same woman who played her last year.

I'm an easy mark, but I THOROUGHLY enjoyed that.  They clearly decided to frame it as a second pilot, and I think it was successful.  They made a very clean break with the Lorca era, and told a good story in the mean time.  I really hope we get to see Nhan and Reno again.  They were both great, particularly the latter.

[Unusual Suspect]

My recording cut out early, so these are incomplete thoughts. But I like Pike. This episode felt very Star Trek 2009, in a good way. Zippy, some good action sequences. But we're on a mission of discovery, and I liked giving the bridge crew more time to shine. 

[2727]

"Where’s the red thing? ... I was expecting a red thing."

Great start! A lot more humor and crew camaraderie this time. I really enjoyed the dark journey in season 1 but this is fine, too. I'm not a purist about canon and my enjoyment is primarily for a good story. Loved little brat Spock.

[DrScottie]

3 hours ago, starri said:

I really hope we get to see Nhan and Reno again.  They were both great, particularly the latter.

Definitely, I liked them, but I thought Nhan might be killed off when she freaked out about switching to manual control. Plus, she was wearing a red shirt.  Reno was just awesome and deserves the Medal of Honor. 

I knew the other guy Connolly was going to eat it when he told Burnham she was wrong  Smug ass deserved to get T-boned by an asteroid chunk. 

[KimberStormer]

You can tell it's Discovery, because nothing makes sense.  No time whatever with the Enterprise, just "hey I'm here, I'm captain now, let's go"?  Craziness.  And why not just tell her Spock's not there?  How did Sarek leave?  What was their plan with ejecting Pike without his helmet working?  What was Burnham going to do with him helmetless?  How come they can't tell if the air is breathable without the engineer lady telling them so?  And why did they just believe her?  Why say Pike's mission is done (which makes no sense) and then say he's sticking around anyway (which makes even less sense) and leave, apparently, the Enterprise adrift and captainless in space?  And most of all how is it OK for her to go into Spock's quarters and read his freakin' diary??  Etc etc.  I'm sure some of these are answered, but I missed them because they were too busy with action sequences.

Also, I don't care about Spock.  I mean I like real Spock just fine, but this was leaning way, way too hard on my caring about Disco Spock, who I have no reason to care about at all.  Imagine coming in to this cold and having all this drawn-out stuff about him.  I want a story about space, the final frontier, not even more about the Unique Upbringing of Michael Burnham, Previously Unmentioned Sister of Spock.

Are we allowed to talk about the preview in this thread, because the unanswered question there is even more burning than any of my questions above.  I was screaming at my TV.  But regardless, I am sticking with it for now, assuming I am not the only grump in the room -- I don't want to ruin the vibe, if you guys all love it. 

[dwmarch]

I very much appreciated the increase in humor. Trek doesn't do outright comedy very well and we have seen from The Orville that dick and fart jokes don't exactly fit either. Disco found a good balance. I loved the bit where Burnham said "Ladies, you've got this, right?!" and Detmer and Owosekun agreed with a wonderful balance of uncertainty and confidence.

I also thought the scene between Tilly and Stamets was great. He basically tells her to shut up (and the Stamets we first met would have straight up said that) and she gives him a heartbreaking "I don't want you to go" in response. Well done.

It seemed apparent that Pike's shit-talking science officer was going to eat an asteroid for breakfast. I did notice that they didn't have an emotional funeral for the guy, no one was "OMG, I can't believe he's gone" (in fact, when he got squished I'm pretty sure they called it out as the pod being destroyed, not the dude!) and they kinda forgot all about him by the end of the episode.

The view of the turbolift zipping around inside of Discovery was very cool. There were a bunch of effects shots that I thought were incredible in this episode. Money well spent!

[Kelda Feegle]

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

You can tell it's Discovery, because nothing makes sense.  No time whatever with the Enterprise, just "hey I'm here, I'm captain now, let's go"?  Craziness.  And why not just tell her Spock's not there?  How did Sarek leave?  What was their plan with ejecting Pike without his helmet working?  What was Burnham going to do with him helmetless?  How come they can't tell if the air is breathable without the engineer lady telling them so?  And why did they just believe her?  Why say Pike's mission is done (which makes no sense) and then say he's sticking around anyway (which makes even less sense) and leave, apparently, the Enterprise adrift and captainless in space?  And most of all how is it OK for her to go into Spock's quarters and read his freakin' diary??  Etc etc.  I'm sure some of these are answered, but I missed them because they were too busy with action sequences.

Also, I don't care about Spock.  I mean I like real Spock just fine, but this was leaning way, way too hard on my caring about Disco Spock, who I have no reason to care about at all.  Imagine coming in to this cold and having all this drawn-out stuff about him.  I want a story about space, the final frontier, not even more about the Unique Upbringing of Michael Burnham, Previously Unmentioned Sister of Spock.

Are we allowed to talk about the preview in this thread, because the unanswered question there is even more burning than any of my questions above.  I was screaming at my TV.  But regardless, I am sticking with it for now, assuming I am not the only grump in the room -- I don't want to ruin the vibe, if you guys all love it. 

While it didn't make me actually grump you certainly raised valid points with which I agree. I'm torn between enjoyment and irritation on this episode, will watch the rest for sure anyway but will be interested to see where it goes.

I thought the teaser of "is he really Pike, cannot confirm, yes he is" was good.

Saru hasn't always waved his arms like tentacles when he walks has he? I found that jarring.

Liked the Hiawatha engineer but shouted at the tv when they blindly accepted the word of someone they didn't know and couldn't see as gospel to take off their helmets. Plus I bet Birnham didn't remember to jump the laser trip light when she ran out.

Happy enough with Pike but found his lack of grief response over the loss of the annoying guy he brought with him also jarring, especially after the "we were sequestered together for ages" speech.

Even getting access to someone elses quarters, let alone reading their diary seemed wildly improbable as well as immoral. Is the show suggesting that they were a couple at some point coz urkkkkk NO.

Lovely to see Tilly again "power rush" and "I moved her to a closet" made me laugh. I did not expect the size of the asteroid sample.

Not sure how the command duties will be shared tho - if it becomes one captain for action and one for quiet time that's insulting but how to stop one jumping in over the other at different times is equally awkward.

Still love the intro and is one of the few I don't FF, same with GoT and Westworld.

[starri]

1 hour ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Saru hasn't always waved his arms like tentacles when he walks has he? I found that jarring.

He has. 

My husband did point out there there was kind of a “Call me Chris. “Captain Pike” was my father” vibe. 

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, starri said:

He has. 

My husband did point out there there was kind of a “Call me Chris. “Captain Pike” was my father” vibe. 

"And Burnham,  we're going to have some fun alone the way" I thought was kind of Michael Scott. 

[marinw]

I was surprised Officer Redshirt didn’t die.

I would be happy to see Tig Notaro's character again.

[MissLucas]

7 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Happy enough with Pike but found his lack of grief response over the loss of the annoying guy he brought with him also jarring, especially after the "we were sequestered together for ages" speech.

Even getting access to someone elses quarters, let alone reading their diary seemed wildly improbable as well as immoral. Is the show suggesting that they were a couple at some point coz urkkkkk NO.

 

IIRC not-redshirt guy was a replacement for Spock and only joined the Enterprise after they had returned from their 5 year trip when Spock decided to go for a  uh... dream-walk. In other words: Pike hardly knew him.

I wondered about Burnham's actions on the Enterprise too - but I'm not sure Spock can expect his quarters to be sequestered off while he's away. As for entering his log - since he made no precautions from accessing it and actually left a message in case of his death I guess Burnham made the right call, it was overstepping but done by a worried family member . Not sure how a sister trying to figure out what the hell is going on with her estranged brother could imply hat they have been a couple. Plenty of reasons for siblings to get estranged without getting all GoT on their relationship.

I quite enjoyed this episode. Loved everything Tilly and that the bridge crew finally got more screen time. Also loved the redshirt fake-out. But most of all I loved Burnham's candles program - forget the judgmental food synthesizers, the spore drive, transporters - that's the bit of tech I want for some cozy reading time. Clap your hands and get surrounded by romantic candles that pose no fire hazard and cause no air pollution, sweet!

Edited January 18, 2019 by MissLucas

[Joimiaroxeu]

Seeing the Enterprise arrive and hearing the original theme song will never not be thrilling.

Well no, Pike, you certainly aren't Lorca. He was hot AF even if he did turn out to be a bad guy.

"Saru. Just Saru."

Buh bye, Connelly. Guess you didn't know everything. You did real well at turning yourself into space dust though.

"Evolution's a fickle bitch." Hope we see Reno again. What a badass.

So at what point does Pike end up just a head on top of a built-up roomba? 😉

Looks like a great season ahead.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Helena Dax]

I feel like the guy who plays Pike is channelling Shatner's best Kirk sometimes. 

I must admit I'm curious about what happened between Spock and Michael. However, I don't trust Alex Kurtzman at all, after he turned Sleepy Hollow into trash, so I'm going to prepare for the worst. 

[thenj]

That was a good start. Pike was charismatic, I hope we'll see Reno again.

I like the increase in humour. Can we now please get brighter lighting?

The plot felt rushed und needed more substance. And I can already tell, that I won't care about the Burnam/Spock family drama.

[starri]

18 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I also thought the scene between Tilly and Stamets was great. He basically tells her to shut up (and the Stamets we first met would have straight up said that) and she gives him a heartbreaking "I don't want you to go" in response. Well done.

I wish they hadn't spoiled the "THIS IS THE POWER OF MATH, PEOPLE!" followed by their high-five in the trailers.  Even knowing it was coming, it was still everything.

Seriously, watching Tilly geek out with both Paul and with Michael was delightful.

[LittleIggy]

10 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I feel like the guy who plays Pike is channelling Shatner's best Kirk sometimes. 

I got a Shatner Kirk vibe, too. But this Pike is a hottie.

Yay! The badass Emperor Giorgiou will be back! 😃 I love Michelle Yeoh. I will miss Jason Isaacs though. ☹️

[jsbt]

This single episode had more exploration, science and discovery than the entire first season (or the reboot films). The course correct (and the Pike/Spock/etc. fan service stuff) is a bit forced but at least it works, for now. More like this, please. And less of the Chicken Soup for the Soul homily voice-over speeches they make poor Sonequa Martin-Green give over and over on this show - almost no one could sell those.

I do wonder how Pike goes from this captain to the weary man in The Cage who just wants to quit and become a trader or whatever. (ETA: Didn't realize this was post-Cage.) Anson Mount was great but the script was a bit cavalier for Pike.  Additionally, James Frain does a wonderful job as Sarek - my only problem is his Sarek seems too nice and demonstrative now. Mark Lenard was much more aloof and formal in TOS and even the films. Maybe it's something about his evolving relationship with Michael.

17 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Is the show suggesting that they were a couple at some point coz urkkkkk NO.

That was the vibe I was getting near the end too. I thought I was losing my mind.

Edited January 19, 2019 by jsbt

[AnnaMayWong]

Geez y’all. I luv me some Star Trek — always have and most likely always will...

Special Effects were damn fantastic and so were quite a number of the actors. However, the plot and all that to which it relates needs deeper formation and clarity.

Keep, keeping on Star Trek: Discovery !

[maddie965]

On 18/01/2019 at 4:21 AM, KimberStormer said:

You can tell it's Discovery, because nothing makes sense.  No time whatever with the Enterprise, just "hey I'm here, I'm captain now, let's go"?  Craziness.  And why not just tell her Spock's not there?  How did Sarek leave?  What was their plan with ejecting Pike without his helmet working?  What was Burnham going to do with him helmetless?  How come they can't tell if the air is breathable without the engineer lady telling them so?  And why did they just believe her?  Why say Pike's mission is done (which makes no sense) and then say he's sticking around anyway (which makes even less sense) and leave, apparently, the Enterprise adrift and captainless in space?  And most of all how is it OK for her to go into Spock's quarters and read his freakin' diary??  Etc etc.  I'm sure some of these are answered, but I missed them because they were too busy with action sequences.

Also, I don't care about Spock.  I mean I like real Spock just fine, but this was leaning way, way too hard on my caring about Disco Spock, who I have no reason to care about at all.  Imagine coming in to this cold and having all this drawn-out stuff about him.  I want a story about space, the final frontier, not even more about the Unique Upbringing of Michael Burnham, Previously Unmentioned Sister of Spock.

Are we allowed to talk about the preview in this thread, because the unanswered question there is even more burning than any of my questions above.  I was screaming at my TV.  But regardless, I am sticking with it for now, assuming I am not the only grump in the room -- I don't want to ruin the vibe, if you guys all love it. 

ITA. I'm done with this show. That was just awful. I didn't even know what I was watching. Not only the plot (was there one?) was ridiculous, there was no sense of purpose, no urgency, no motivation to anything happening on screen. What is the point of Discovery? Why should I care about this stupid mission? Why do we need a new captain? What's up with all that fancy technology? Why should I care about this new and preposterous version of Spock? Who is this Michael Burnham and what does she want? It's like the first season never happened. There are no logical or emotional repercussions to what we saw last season (except for dear Stamets). They just pressed  the reset button and now expect us to do it too.

Well, not me. I will miss Stamets, Hugh and Tilly. But that's it. Bye, Discovery. It was (not so) good while it lasted.

Edited January 19, 2019 by maddie965

[marinw]

7 hours ago, jsbt said:

James Frain does a wonderful job as Sarek - my only problem is his Sarek seems too nice and demonstrative now. Mark Lenard was much more aloof and formal in TOS and even the films

He warms up a bit towards Spock in the TOS films, but yes. He has this whole thing where he has disdain for humans yet marries two, whom he clearly loves. No Sarek can ever make the dignity and gravitas of Mark Leonard, although James Farin is growing on me.

[Starchild]

Now that was more like it! The Orville is no longer the only Trek on TV.

I just wish Michael was less Mary-Sueish. Nobody is this perfect. And so intense. I hope the lighter atmosphere continues, and lightens her up as well.

[tennisgurl]

So this is basically our third reboot of the show, and we are just in season one! We had the reboot after the two part pilot, where Michael was court marshaled and got a new, then at the end of last season when Lorca died, and now we get this new story with Pike. They are clearly trying to be more classic Trek, with more actual discovery, but we will see how it goes. I enjoyed last season, and it had some good episodes, but it was clearly not totally sure what it wanted to be, and often took itself WAY too seriously, but almost every Trek series had a patchy first season (even DS9, my favorite season and the one this one seems to be closest in tone to, was kind of bland at first) so I am interested to see what happens here. The constant changes in characters and plot sometimes made whole portions of the show seem pointless (like almost everything about Lorca being a lie) and so obsessed with being serious, that they lost a lot of the personality that a Trek show should have. I mean, we hardly even knew the bridge crew, and we spent so much of the season with Lorca, who turned out to be totally making everything up, and then he died!

The "lets have a little fun along the way" line seemed to be directed at the audience as much as at the characters. I did appreciate that they were clearly lightening up, and threw in some more banter, and more actual discovery and less angst and Klingons telling at each other and eating each other.* Dont get me wrong, I liked a lot of stuff about the first season, but I am happy to be heading towards a happier, more traditional Trek. 

Interesting having Pike around, and seeing his future basically spelled out for us. And little bratty Spock, five seconds from announcing that no one understands him while playing Vulcan Nirvana. Maybe now we can find out why no one has ever talked about Spocks human sister in all of Trek history! 

*Seriously, so much cannibalism last season! Stop eating people you weirdos!*

[MissLucas]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

*Seriously, so much cannibalism last season! Stop eating people you weirdos!*

Hey now! I'm still waiting for L'Rell and Georgiou to swap recipes!

[statsgirl]

I wonder if they are setting up a trope whereby each season has a different captain.

It's nice to see Mia Kirshner back as Amanda. I think she's underrated as an actress.

Anson Mount is so much better here than in Inhumans last year.  (So is Serinda Swn in her new show Coroner.) Writing matters.

There was a lot of fun in this episode -- the playing with a red shirt, Pike's sense of humour, the good adventure.   I also like that they've toned down the need to be distinct from the other versions of the show which did things like create totally out-of-timeline Klingons.

But I don't understand the Spock thing.  I was surprised that Spock is so much younger than Michael because from the scene last season when Sarek had said to Michael that he had already lost one child to Star Trek I thought that Spock was the older.

And with all the shots of Amanda with Michael while Spock looked on from afar and Sarek mentoring her, it really seems like they were more concerned about Michael than about how Spock was going to take having this usurper in his home. How did Sarek, with his concern about empathy, not logic that?

[Frozendiva]

I liked the idea of 'let's have a little fun along the way'. The first season was dark. A bit of humour will balance the show.

Liked the nod to the OS Star Trek uniform - a bit more modern but nice to see the gold/yellow Captain's shirt/jacket.

The special effects were very well done. A lot of money put in to this premiere. Some reminded me of Star Wars and the asteroid belt. I was half-expecting an Imperial Cruiser.

Burnham should not be opening Spock's diary. I didn't quite get what she was looking at after she had activated all the planets. So Sarek hoped that Spock having a human sister would teach him empathy????

[Raachel2008]

Pike is hot as fuck and has dimples, and yes, I’m that shallow.

I really wish they had never ever thought about bringing Spock to Disco. Sorry, but no way TOS Spock was ever this annoying brat emo it looks like we are getting.

Oh, look, it is Michael Burnham, the most special snowflake the universe has ever seen. Zzzzz.

Stamets, as always, is the best thing about this show.

I can’t wait to see Giorgiou going batshit crazy on them.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Raachel2008

[KimberStormer]

I should say, to balance my complaining, I thought Reno was really great and hope for more of her.  For a comedian on Star Trek, which is an idea which rarely works for me, she was totally not hammy and absolutely believable to me as a funny but super-compentent engineer.  I doubt (but hope) we'll see any of that crew she saved again, but Tig Notaro totally sold that Reno could and did manage to save them with some crazy improvised engineering.

[Starchild]

I love Tig but I must admit that my familiarity with her did kind of pull me out of the show a bit. I think she'd work a bit better for people who didn't already know her through standup.

[statsgirl]

I knew she does stand-up  but it's not my cup of tea so I didn't recognize her until I saw the show's credits. From a purely standalone point of view, she impressed me.

I know it's a small thing but the title of the episode bothers me. It wasn't about Spock except in the sense of setting up a future episode about him and Burnham which then should have been called "Brother". The title of this episode should have reflected what actually went on in it,  the aftermath of the Klingon war and steps towards what they do next.

[Ceindreadh]

18 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I wonder if they are setting up a trope whereby each season has a different captain.

It's nice to see Mia Kirshner back as Amanda. I think she's underrated as an actress.

Anson Mount is so much better here than in Inhumans last year.  (So is Serinda Swn in her new show Coroner.) Writing matters.

There was a lot of fun in this episode -- the playing with a red shirt, Pike's sense of humour, the good adventure.   I also like that they've toned down the need to be distinct from the other versions of the show which did things like create totally out-of-timeline Klingons.

But I don't understand the Spock thing.  I was surprised that Spock is so much younger than Michael because from the scene last season when Sarek had said to Michael that he had already lost one child to Star Trek I thought that Spock was the older.

And with all the shots of Amanda with Michael while Spock looked on from afar and Sarek mentoring her, it really seems like they were more concerned about Michael than about how Spock was going to take having this usurper in his home. How did Sarek, with his concern about empathy, not logic that?

Vulcans have a longer life span than humans. Spock could be several years older than Michael but just aging more slowly. 

[jane1978]

So, this show is produced by Alex Kurtzman, the guy behind Transformers and half of the most mindless blockbuster scripts of Hollywood? Figures. Honestly, I apreciate the action and the "whoa, is this just for a TV" FX budget, but the script just made so little sense. What was Burnham´s plan with the broken helmet? Why they couldn´t just send some drones to explore the ship and not risk the lives of the most important people on the ship? How they can report every meter remaining to impact, yet then suddenly pretend they have no idea if the jump suits stopped the fall or not? 

And most importantly, how many more scenes of "everybody, including the captain, just awkwardly waits until Burnham comes with yet another briliant idea to save the day" they can have in just one episode. It´s. Just. So. Annoying! Even more now, when they´d apparently got a cold feet and try to reboot the show into a more conventional Trek show. But in a tradiotional Trek the captain was always the most important person, not a second fiddle to his science officer.

I don´t mind the leading character is black woman. But it has to come naturally, not by making everyone around her an idiot who is not able to come with any idea on his/her own. Also, all this sudden family stuff with Spock and his sister feels like some writer was bored and watched CW´s Supergirl on night. It´s just so similar.

But, there were some good moments. The lizard alien in the elevator looked great and it was like a scene borrowed from the Orville. Good way to make all the exposition done during the ride less obvious. And I´m interested in the red angel mystery. That´s the good thing about a big budget, they can finally really explore these big space themes. And I like the guy from Inhumans as the new captain. 

[Vapor]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I know it's a small thing but the title of the episode bothers me. It wasn't about Spock except in the sense of setting up a future episode about him and Burnham which then should have been called "Brother". The title of this episode should have reflected what actually went on in it,  the aftermath of the Klingon war and steps towards what they do next.

It might be helpful not to interpret the title so literally.

I assumed it wasn't meant only in reference to the exact pairing of Michael and Spock, but the general sense of brotherhood and family that pervades the entire story. We even have Michael herself say that no one on the bridge would leave a "Starfleet brother or sister" behind. The episode is riddled with references like this, including Saru talking about being a brother just before they meet Pike, along with not-Spock Connelly.

The Spock thing is just the most obvious of a number of elements deliberately brought together to suit the theme which the title is exemplifying.

[Kromm]

A big heaping serving of Meh. Not horrible, but just kind of... dull.  The pod scene was exciting, but the rest of it seemed kind of aimless and patched together with cliches.

[Amelie06]

17 hours ago, jane1978 said:

But in a tradiotional Trek the captain was always the most important person, not a second fiddle to his science officer.

I don´t mind the leading character is black woman. But it has to come naturally, not by making everyone around her an idiot who is not able to come with any idea on his/her own. Also, all this sudden family stuff with Spock and his sister feels like some writer was bored and watched CW´s Supergirl on night. It´s just so similar.

Not to cast aspersions, but Michael's race should have nothing to do with this.  Why should someone mind the lead character being black?  That isn't a part of the conversation.  (I should hope. )

 

I've seen a lot of accusations that Michael is a Mary Sue character. And I guess I can see that. As far as I can tell,  if the character is a professionally competent female,  she is considered a Mary Sue. I'd like to gently push back on that. Why is it acceptable for a man,  the captain,  to run around with all the ideas,  but unacceptable for a woman? We all have bosses,  it doesn't mean they are the smartest or most capable people in the room. Michael is far from being perfect. The first season was riddled with her mistakes,  both personal and professional. But she is competent and unapologetic about it.  I love that.

 

Discovery is changing the focus a bit. Away from the well-used brilliant captain figures it out. Just like DS9 changed the focus a bit away from starships. 

 

I liked the episode.  It had some bad spots that I didn't like, but overall it was good.  I agree that the Vulcan family drama is already a little dull.  Some families just aren't close.  It sucks, but none of them seemed to care about that until this episode. 

[staphdude]

On 2019-01-17 at 10:22 PM, 2727 said:

"Where’s the red thing? ... I was expecting a red thing."

Great start! A lot more humor and crew camaraderie this time. I really enjoyed the dark journey in season 1 but this is fine, too. I'm not a purist about canon and my enjoyment is primarily for a good story. Loved little brat Spock.

 

On 2019-01-18 at 3:25 AM, dwmarch said:

I very much appreciated the increase in humor. Trek doesn't do outright comedy very well and we have seen from The Orville that dick and fart jokes don't exactly fit either. Disco found a good balance. 

The Orville does comedy infused Trek perfectly and dragged this show into this fresher style. That said this episode was a well balanced but just as I feared they couldn’t bring themselves to stay away from the Enterprise. Do we need ANOTHER version of Spock....

[jane1978]

7 hours ago, Amelie06 said:

I've seen a lot of accusations that Michael is a Mary Sue character. And I guess I can see that. As far as I can tell,  if the character is a professionally competent female,  she is considered a Mary Sue. I'd like to gently push back on that. Why is it acceptable for a man,  the captain,  to run around with all the ideas,  but unacceptable for a woman? We all have bosses,  it doesn't mean they are the smartest or most capable people in the room. Michael is far from being perfect. The first season was riddled with her mistakes,  both personal and professional. But she is competent and unapologetic about it.  I love that.

As I said, my problem isn´t with her being smart. It´s the awkward pauses and the way the show makes her be the one who has to come even with the most obvious things. This whole episode Pike was like "common people, give me some ideas, I have none." And then everybody stays silent until Michael finally saves the day. And it happend like 8-times during the episode. I understand she is the main character so the focus is primarily on her, not the captain or the rest of the crew. I just think it´s not written well and feels forced and unnatural. 

[Starchild]

I think it's also because the standard Trek dynamic since TNG has been an ensemble, where all the characters get their chance to shine. DISCO hasn't really done that yet, it's still all about Burnham. When they get into trouble, we're not thinking "How will they get out of it?", but "How will Michael get them out of it?" The team of those two women (sorry don't remember everyone's names yet, but this episode has got us off to a good start on that) saving the day with the pods was really refreshing. Although of course Burnham got into it as well.

But the most irritating thing for me about her is the non-stop intensity. Jeebus, it's like, choosing what to have for lunch is probably treated like it's life or death decision. It's exhausting. Lighten up, gurl.

[luckyroll3]

On 1/20/2019 at 1:46 PM, jane1978 said:

I don´t mind the leading character is black woman. But it has to come naturally, not by making everyone around her an idiot who is not able to come with any idea on his/her own. 

I'm trying to understand what her race has to do with whether or not her intelligence/brilliant ideas come naturally?

[thuganomics85]

Finally getting around to this!

So far, I'm enjoying Anson Mount as Pike.  I wasn't sure going in, since I really loved Bruce Greenwood's take in the 2009 film and Into Darkness, but I thought he added some good dynamics and fun to the proceedings.  And his "sound off" was even a nice way to let newcomers know all of the crew's names!  Even if I still struggle to remember anyone's name who isn't Michael, Tilly, Saru, and Statmets....

Speaking of Statmets, I doubt he's going anywhere, so I'm wondering what is going to prevent him from leaving the ship.  I also noticed that Wilson Cruz is now in the main credits, so I'm guessing Culber is going to be a major player despite... err, what happened to him last season.

Reno was fun.  Wouldn't mind seeing her again.

The effects were top notch here, so I'm wondering just how big the budget is?

And now we have another Spock.  His voice sounded a lot deeper than I thought it would be.

I felt a little bad for laughing as hard as I did over Connolly getting his ass killed, but he had it coming.  I'm not sure if it was on purpose, but I wonder if part of it was because they that other character (Nhan?) decked out in a redshirt and not as developed, so they wanted to riff on the whole "Redshirt always dies!" gag, by making it look like she would be the goner, only for it to be him instead.

Tilly continues to be the best.

Onto the next episode!

[CTrent29]

I just recently viewed the Season Two premiere of “STAR TREK DISCOVERY”, (2.01) “Brother” on CBS All Access. On one hand, the episode struck me as a solid entry for a Trek show that set up the second season’s story arc and introduction of new characters. This is nothing knew. I have witnessed similar set ups for shows like “BABYLON 5” and “BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER”. But what I did not count on were some differences and characters that would leave me scratching my head. 

I do not think I have ever encountered a Trek show that has generated so much conflict and controversy as “STAR TREK DISCOVERY”. I take that back. There has been one other series that has generated controversy close to the same level as “DISCOVERY” . . . namely “STAR TREK VOYAGER”. This does not strike me as surprising, since both shows featured leading characters who are women. “DISCOVERY” took it to another level in which its leading character, Commander (formerly Specialist) Michael Burnham, is not only portrayed by an African-American actress, but is not the starship/space station’s commanding officer.

I noticed that a great deal of what struck me as vague and nitpicking complaints had been inflicted upon “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” during and after its first season. One of those complaints proved to be that certain characters, including Michael Burnham, lacked full development by the end of Season One. I found myself scratching my head over this complaint. I mean … what on earth? I have never heard of a fictional character in a television show that is fully developed by the end of its first season, let alone before the end of its run. Never. And “DISCOVERY” had only finished its first season. Why on earth were so many of the franchise’s fans either criticizing that most of its characters are not fully developed or demanding that they should be after one season? This is not miniseries or television show. If “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” is allowed to complete its full run and the characters are still “not fully developed”, then I believe they would have something to complain about.

Another complaint that left me scratching my head was the lack of humor during its first season. In fact, this particular complaint has led many to compare “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” with another science-fiction series that had begun around the same time - “THE ORVILLE”. The Trek franchise has never been a franchise that was dominated by humor. And I do recall a good deal of humor in Season One of “STAR TREK DISCOVERY”, especially in episodes like (1.07) “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” or in scenes featuring Mary Wiseman as Cadet Sylvia Tilly. Aside from those scenes featuring Wiseman and even Rainn Wilson (as con man Harry Mudd), most of the humor featured in Season One tend to be more subtle. 

I am relieved to notice that in regard to character development, the show runners for “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” did not rush to portray Michael Burnham or any of the other characters fully developed. The Season Two premiere, “Brother”, hinted that the show planned to explore Burnham’s past experiences as a member of Ambassador Sarek’s household and especially, her relationship with adoptive brother Spock. Judging from the Season Two previews I have seen, Burnham’s relationship with Ash Tyler/Voq will also be touched upon. So, if Season Two does not feature the full character development of the series’ leading lady and the other supporting characters, I will not be disappointed. If anything, I might feel a sense of relief. The last thing I want is for the series to engage in rushed storytelling.

But one aspect of the Season Two premiere that left me scratching my head was the level of humor featured in the episode. It almost struck me as out of place. Now, “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” featured some rather heavy humor. I found nothing wrong with this. Many of the Trek series have aired the occasional humorous episode. The problem with the humor in “Brother” is that there was nothing about the plot or the characters that should have marked it as a humor-filled episode. Many of the familiar characters - including Burnham - were either spouting lines or reacting to situations that made me wonder if screenwriters Ted Sullivan, Gretchen J. Berg and Aaron Harberts may have went a bit too far. 

“Brother” also featured the introduction of Commander Denise “Jett” Reno, Chief Engineer of the U.S.S. Hiawatha, who had been rescued by a landing party from the Discovery after spending ten months caring for wounded crew members on an asteroid, during the Federation-Klingon War. Reno, portrayed by actress-comedian Tig Notaro, managed to spout more jokes in a space of five minutes than any other actor or actress who had appeared in a Trek series or movie. I think Notaro might proved to be a rival for Wiseman on who can be the funniest member of the cast. In the end, the humor in “Brother” struck me as a bit over-the-top, especially for an episode that is not obviously a humorous one like “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad”. 

So what were the screenwriters thinking? Did they change the tonal style of “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” to appease those fans who had complained that the series was “too serious” or “too angsty”? If so, they have made a mistake. I found this tonal shift for Season Two rather forced and mind boggling. I do not see the necessity of changing the series’ tonal style. I want to watch “STAR TREK DISCOVERY”, not some borderline copycat of “THE ORVILLE”. Not even the other Trek series from the past had such a drastic tonal shift. After all, the edgier style of Season One did not prevent “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” from being a hit or creating an entire new stable of fans. Had the show runners forgotten this? Or were they too busy paying attention to the narrow-minded fans who wanted the series to simply re-create the past?

I noticed that the introduction of Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike of the U.S.S. Enterprise had also contributed to this tonal shift. Mount’s Pike came off as slightly humorous and yet, somewhat bland. To me, Pike seemed like the epitome of the white male leading man that so many science-fiction/fantasy geeks seemed to long - especially in the past three to four years. The problem I have with this is that as an old fan of the AMC series, “HELL ON WHEELS”, I know that the talented Mount is capable of portraying a character more interesting than Pike. At one point in “Brother”, Pike had expressed his regret that the Enterprise did not participate in the Federation-Klingon War. Was this regret a consequence of survivor’s guilt? Or is this nothing more than the regret of someone in the military, who wished he or she could have been in the center of the action. I hope that it is the former. On the other hand, watching Pike participate in the landing party that found Reno and the remains of the Hiawatha makes me wonder otherwise. As the Discovery’s current temporary captain, his presence in the Away team struck me as questionable. This is not “STAR TREK” circa 1966-68. And so far, I do not find the character’s regret for not participating in the war against the Klingons as not very interesting. 

And why is the Christopher Pike character a regular on this show? Why is he a regular for Season Two? Why was Pike, along with two Enterprise officers, needed to investigate those seven red bursts that had appeared in the Alpha Quadrant? The Discovery is originally a science vessel. The Enterprise is not. Why did the show runners have Starfleet order Pike to take command of Discovery in the first place? Mount could have been cast as the Discovery’s new captain who was someone other than Pike. Or Saru could have been promoted as the Discovery’s new commander. He deserved it. After all, ever since the discovery that Captain Gabriel Lorca was an imposter from the Mirror Universe, Saru had more or less acted as the ship’s captain. He was the one who led Discovery and its crew out of the Mirror Universe. And he stood behind Burnham, Tilly and Tyler when they exposed Starfleet’s plot to destroy the Klingon homeworld. Instead, either Alex Kurtzman or Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg drummed up some lame reason to brng Pike aboard the Discovery so that the show can have some slightly bland and familiar character as the main authority figure in order to soothe the nerves of some very loud and negative fans.

Is it possible that these fans could not deal with the chaotic Gabriel Lorca as captain or who still cannot deal with the non-white Michael Burnham as the show’s lead? Or do they simply want to recapture the past? Right now, it seems as if Kurtzman, Harberts and Berg want to please these fanboys, who want the show to recapture the past. After watching “Brother”, I blame them for listening to these fanboys, instead of basking in the success of Season One and moving forward with more innovative stories. It just seems a crime that producers like Kurtzman, Harberts, Berg, the Warner Brothers suits and Kathleen Kennedy are so afraid of the loud and narrow-minded fanboys that they would rather keep their respective franchises either mired in the past or borderline bland to please these fans. And in doing so, they end up ignoring the fact that when their franchises were innovative, they were also box office or ratings successes. 

Right now, I find the Trek fandom, along with those for other franchises, rather frustrating and narrow-minded. These fans would rather cling to the past, rather than enjoy something different or innovative. And when producers and show runners like Harberts, Berg or Kurtzman kowtow to the loud and rather conservative-minded fans and critics, entertainment and art in pop culture becomes in danger of declining into a sad affair. Does this mean that Season Two of “STAR TREK DISCOVERY” await such a fate? I hope not. I hope that the season’s future episodes might prove to be just as fascinating and innovative as those from Season One. I hope so. Because if I have to be honest, I found “Brother” to be jarring and something of a head scratcher. 

[KimberStormer]

3 hours ago, CTrent29 said:

And why is the Christopher Pike character a regular on this show? Why is he a regular for Season Two? Why was Pike, along with two Enterprise officers, needed to investigate those seven red bursts that had appeared in the Alpha Quadrant? The Discovery is originally a science vessel. The Enterprise is not. Why did the show runners have Starfleet order Pike to take command of Discovery in the first place? Mount could have been cast as the Discovery’s new captain who was someone other than Pike. Or Saru could have been promoted as the Discovery’s new commander. He deserved it. . .

 Or do they simply want to recapture the past? Right now, it seems as if Kurtzman, Harberts and Berg want to please these fanboys, who want the show to recapture the past.

Don't agree with everything in your post (for a minor example, it is bizarre to me that "To Make the Sanest Man" is supposed to be a funny episode) but I do agree with this.  This Pike business is totally weird and 100% unnecessary in my opinion, and sort of feels like if they'd forced Patrick Stewart to wear a wig in Season 2 of TNG because the fanboys were so mad there was a bald captain.  (They were, I was there.)  Having him leave the Enterprise and just go be captain of another ship, like, instantaneously, is just plain crazy and ridiculous.  And retrograde.  Especially having it be a character we know of already, Pike...it's just like the Star Wars prequels, the creators can't seem to understand that having all the same people keep showing up just makes your universe seem smaller and more rinky-dink.  I want to believe there are more than 5 captains in Starfleet, but it's hard when those are the only ones we ever see. 

[CTrent29]

Quote

Especially having it be a character we know of already, Pike...it's just like the Star Wars prequels, the creators can't seem to understand that having all the same people keep showing up just makes your universe seem smaller and more rinky-dink. 

 

Since the Prequel Trilogy was about the downfall of Anakin Skywalker, the Jedi Order and the Galactic Senate; along with the emergence of the Empire; it made sense to me that characters like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin, and Yoda were in the trilogy.  In fact the PT made a lot more sense to me than Christopher Pike assuming command of the Discovery.

[KimberStormer]

I was thinking more like how it turns out Anakin made C-3PO and Yoda is friends with Chewbacca.

[CTrent29]

I don't have a problem with that.

[shrewd.buddha]

For some reason, the entire season 2 premiere episode is available, without ads, on YouTube. Which I took  as a somewhat desperate move on the part of CBS All Access. 
(We binge watched season 1 with a one month subscription. Season 1 was not satisfying enough to make me want to pay to see weekly episodes of season 2. )

General thoughts: 

• Just when you thought STD could not exploit the popularity of Spock any farther... they do. Young Spock is emo and has a trendy millennial beard. Spock is mentioned constantly, talked about in interviews with the cast, featured prominently in advertising. Now the question is: how long can they tease viewers with his appearance without the character actually appearing?
• Just when you thought Michael Burnham could not have more childhood flashbacks... she does. I am just not that interested in a series that should be called Star Trek: Michael Burnham.
• The snot scene: What does it say about the characters when no one, not even the person who sneezed, apologizes? What does it say about Michael Burnham's character that this is one of the few things that makes her laugh? It seems to show that the writers do not understand the appeal of Spock that they are trying to transfer to Burnham.
• Too many contrived situations: The stranded ship has been there for 10 months - but now the plot requires they have only hours to save the survivors - and it must come down to the last minute.
• Michael Burnham is the center of everything: extended flashback scenes, figuring out how to get to the asteroid, saving Pike, rigging up power on the broken ship, the only one left behind to run thru falling debris. Why even bring Pike and the RedShirt crew person? As with season 1, they are overselling Burnham.
• "That's the power of math, people!": what does that even mean, really? It seems like something someone would shout at a elementary school science fair. The writers of STD do not seem interested in actual NASA-type science, but more magical science fiction, such as the 'spore drive' - which only works when the plot needs it to work. 

STD is entertaining ... to a point. It looks good. But like the first season, I fear most things are going to end up as an unsatisfying mess. (The spore drive mess, the Lorca mess, the Ash/Voq mess, the all-powerful but somehow secret emperor of the Mirror Universe mess, the L'Rell "I have a bomb" mess, etc.) 
But having said all that, I will most likely - again - subscribe for a month and binge season 2, once it has finished. My level of interest is such that I do not even mind being spoiled from reading the posts here beforehand. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by shrewd.buddha

[tv-talk]

So I watched all of season1 and thought that it started our terrifically but then took a precipitous nose-dive and was pretty bad by the end. Still I wanted to give season2 a chance, especially seeing Pike and Spock were going to be characters. After watching Episode1 my fears were realized tho. Am I correct in saying at its core this show is about portraying Burnham as superior to every other person she encounters? I get the sense what I'll see if I keep going is a show trying to illustrate that she is smarter, better all-around, and with a better moral compass than Spock. And that not only will she save his life many times, she will mold him into the beloved character we all know. Along the way she will gain nothing from him and Pike will be an archaic blood and guts hero type who she corrects time and time again thus constantly saving everyone's life.

Is that what the show is basically about? I'm not going to bother watching if so, just checking if there is something worthwhile I'm missing.

[Ottis]

On 1/18/2019 at 10:00 PM, jsbt said:

Anson Mount was great but the script was a bit cavalier for Pike. 

It took me fully half of the episode before I realized, "That's Cullen from Hell on Wheels!" Holy crap. I watched that entire series, and I did not recognize him until he delivered a few lines like Cullen would have. Great choice for Pike.

So ... when Burnham was rewiring the Hiawatha, did her arms move in some kind of sped-up motion, a la she has super speed? Or was that just me?