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Season 4 Discussion

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Has begun airing in the U.K.

Episode 4.1: Sidney Chambers attends a talk by the Reverend Nathaniel Todd, a key part of the Civil Rights movement in America. During the event, protestors disrupt Todd's speech and release fireworks, causing the audience to panic and leading to a crush as dozens of people try to escape through a locked door. In the chaos, a man is stabbed and killed by an unseen assailant. The murder sees racial tensions spike and Geordie is called in to investigate.

I haven't seen anything about a U.S. premiere date on PBS yet.

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Got to see the first episode. It's been so long since season 3 that for a moment I was able to forget how much I loathed what Sidney and Geordie have become. The first scene had some amusing banter between them, and I enjoyed that.

Of course it didn't last long... Soon enough, Sidney was snotty with Leonard and having drunken sex with a grieving house guest he'd known for a day, and Geordie was being an ass to Cathy, and it all came rushing back.

By the end, it was actually kind of cathartic to watch Sidney get beaten up. But then Sidney seemed to enjoy it, too, which gave me pause as to just how depressed he is, and made me actually feel sorry for him. (I still hate Geordie, though.) And considering it sounds like the second episode (which I haven't seen) is Norton's last, I don't know if whatever ending they come up with for him will feel particularly satisfying.

On the bright side, I don't think there was so much as a mention of Amanda, Leonard continues to be Leonard (and Al Weaver continues to be brilliant in his line delivery), Dickens is still adorable, I liked the first look we got at Sidney's replacement (even though him ending up with the murder weapon didn't really make sense to me... did I miss that he had some kind of relationship with the guy who gave it to him?), and it was amusing to watch Patterson Joseph play an American on a British show after watching him be British on an American show (Timeless) for so long.

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Watched episode two, and... urgh.

I like Violet as a character. I like her with Sidney. If we had a whole season of them together and then Sidney made the decision he made, I would have been on board with that. Since Norton's departure made that an impossibility, I wish Sidney had been given a job offer or something in America, and made the decision to go because he wanted to see where things went with Violet. But to have him decide to go on the spur of the moment and solely for Violet, who he has had no more than a handful of conversations with, was just... not satisfying. And for her to protest for a moment and then be totally on board despite the fact that she knows full well that he's depressed and basically an alcoholic didn't work for me, either. The swoopy/ swirly-focus kiss was just cheesy.

In general I just wish the show hadn't spent such an endless amount of time on Sidney/ Amanda angst over the years, and instead did a better exploration of Sidney as a character where his romantic entanglements are a smaller part of the focus. I adored series one. Since then, it's been all downhill.

That said, I'll be interested to see where the show goes the rest of this season in terms of tone. Here's hoping Will Davenport has less angst. I'm eager to see whether we'll get more lighter moments and (please, please, please) more Leonard, and am hoping Will will enjoy Leonard's friendship more than Sidney has seemed to these past couple years. I hope Will gets his own kind of relationship with Geordie and that they don't try to force an insta-bromance.

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I've just watched episode 3 and it is not the same without Sidney :( I will check the next episode but I feel it won't get better without James Norton

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I agree with dargosmydaddy.

I watched the first two episodes where everyone's worried about Sidney, including Sidney who wonders (with considerable angst) if he's on the wrong path. He gets drunk; he gets in fights; he seems depressed; he sleeps with someone he's just met when she takes refuge for one night at the vicarage! He's coming across as a hot mess. I'm assuming that's on purpose.

So when he decides to go with Violet to Alabama it simply looks like he's running away from his problems. He's latching onto the latest pretty stranger in his life, desperately pinning his hopes on her magical ability to save him from himself.

Is it believable? Sure, but it's not satisfying. And it's no happy ending for the show's main character. When Geordie said something like "Sidney Chambers happy" at the end, it rang totally false. He's miserable! Leonard and Mrs. Maguire are buying him Cufflinks of Despair! Violet is lovely but does she really want to take on another cause?!

If he must leave the show as a walking disaster, I at least expected that his departure would be a step in the right direction for him eg. a move to a new role that he might find more fulfilling.

But I would have preferred if he simply left the show when he was in a less troubled headspace. He could have been muddling along alright in Grantchester, and then an offer to work in a city parish comes up that's too good to ignore.

Why write him so screwed up (for his final two episodes) that leaving looks like trying to escape himself?  And why have him leave for love if you've only got two episodes in which to portray love?

Edited by Kirsty · Reason: To spell Sidney correctly!
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I watched episodes three and four, the first ones with Will and without Sidney.

I actually gasped when Mrs. Chapman (formerly Mrs. Maguire) walked in on Leonard and his boyfriend kissing. The fall-out in the following episode was surprisingly moving. Because it's a nice Sunday evening drama, I imagine she will eventually come to look past an aspect of him that's incomprehensible to her, so that they can be on warm terms again. But realistically, I wouldn't expect much given the time period. She probably would have been shocked and appalled if it was the 1990s, let alone the '50s or '60s.

Cathy's storyline is one where things tragically haven't changed much over the years. Her boss's reaction to her problem made me laugh because it was outrageously dismissive, condescending, and sexist. But that's been happening every decade since! A boss would phrase it differently this century, but the result is often the same ie. protect the male predator over his female victims.

I'm guessing Hobbs is going to attack someone else this season. It would make sense if the store had lost other female staff because of him, and if other women on staff were warned (by each other) to be wary of him. He chose Cathy because she's new.

So far Will does nothing for me, neither the character nor the actor. Judging by his angry attitude to the Mennonite father in episode four, he has daddy issues? But so far so bland. Sidney loved jazz so Will listens to rock'n'roll. Sidney rode a bicycle so Will has a motorbike. It's about as subtle as a brick. But I'm still watching and I'll give him a chance.

Edited by Kirsty
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Episode 5:

Damn, that was a good episode.

I liked when Geordie noticed that there was something between his wife and Hobbs. Naturally he would think it was an affair.

And I liked the way the show used the falling-out between Leonard and Mrs. C to give Leonard a reason to be annoyed with Will, which led to their final scene. It was very effective; I understood where everyone was coming from in each scene; and I didn't guess where it was going.

So Will is from a dysfunctional upper-class family who place a high value on keeping up appearances. His father was a horrible bully, who was physically and emotionally abusive to Will, to Will's mother, and to staff. And his mother covered for his father.

His father said Will used to be wild. He said, "girls, drink, and tearing around on that bike" -- which makes Will sound a lot like Sidney.

Well, Will does go dangerously fast on his bike. But all we know otherwise are two incidents from his teenage years. He slept with a French hooker his father procured for him on his sixteenth birthday. And when Will was seventeen, his father's friend's wife, who must have been twice his age, seduced him; they had an affair everyone knew about; and she got pregnant and had an abortion. Both incidents indicate that he grew up surrounded by some terrible adults.

Finally, I can see that Will is a hothead like his father. Boxing is his way of dealing with his anger, and he must have always feared that he would take after his bullying dad. But I never thought he would actually hit Leonard! Great ending, well set up. How do you come back from that? Leonard won't feel physically safe living there.

So does this episode make Will more interesting? Absolutely. It looks as though the Church is Will's escape from a screwed-up family, bad influences, abuse, a possibly wild youth, and whatever other coping mechanisms he used to deal with all of that. He probably really wants to be the nice, bland, boring vicar he appeared to be in his first couple of episodes. Of course, if he succeeds in that, if he successfully puts his past behind him, he'll be dull as ditchwater. So the writers need to keep testing him, and haunting him with reminders of his past!

Will says he's sworn off sex until he's married, which... Haha, he obviously hasn't been watching this show. I assume he'll be tested on that front next season. My money's on an older woman reminiscent of Meredith.

Edited by Kirsty
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I know this is unpopular, but it pisses me off that Sidney didn’t leave with Amanda if he was going to leave the show. I really do like Violet and acknowledge that she is good for Sidney, but I don’t buy that he’s in love with her after 3 years of pining for Amanda. I wish they had closed out that storyline better. I  can believe that he left the priesthood for a cause rather than for love, but not this. 

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Sad to see sidney go even if he's been a hot mess for a while now (i mean, he's always been a hot mess but his character tanked pretty quickly in season 2+ along with geordie's). Their final scenes together made my eyes go teary a bit, i'll admit.

I actually really enjoyed the first episode. I thought it had a good feel to it compared to what the last 2 seasons had given us. It just had a different atmosphere to it, ya know. Then it quickly goes back to the usual feel with episode 2, which was actually a bit jarring when watching it back to back.

To my delight amanda was only mentioned once and in a 'that was a while ago' way. I'm wondering how much time has passed bc i can't remember if we were given any timestamps last season or if there were any events mentioned that gave an accurate time period. Leonard mentioned 'the king and' so that gives us the current year. Is it just safe to assume that a year (or maybe more??) has passed?

Anyways, enough rambling:

  • Enjoyed the opening scene and the elvis inclusion
  • Sidney has sadly reverted back to alcoholism like in the good ol' days of season 1 (season 2+ was never nearly as bad from what i can recall)
  • i thought sidney and violet had good chemistry (a non-toxic relationship to boot unlike a few others that i shall not name), but like others expressed, i would have much rather have seen it span over the whole season. Him leaving really did feel like he was running away and chasing after one of the many ladies he had a fling with. It felt like he left on a whim.
  • Keeping the above bullet point in mind, how much time had passed between violet and co. arriving and sidney leaving? Violet was staying around for the death certificate, right? From how everything was framed it seemed like maybe months had passed and it doesn't seem like it should have take that long to get a death certificate.
  • Leonard and mrs. m (she'll always be mrs. m to me) were an amusing duo throughout
  • Leonard was happy for once, at least.
  • A new police colleague will be interesting

Sorry if i got any of the details wrong. My mom was on the phone with my brother the whole time so i didn't catch about a third of what was said.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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I have a hard time believing in the insta-love Sidney has for Violet.  That's not on her. In the short time we got to know her on the show the writing managed to convey that she is a fine woman of strong character.  It's that I have come to strongly feel that nothing and nobody can help and cure the dissatisfaction and unhappiness inside him.  I don't think Amanda would have managed to do so in the long term either.  Going to America with a new love and taking on a new cause won't fix what's wrong with Sidney.

You can't run away from yourself and your demons.

I know they had to write out Sidney  somehow and this was probably better than some other ways they could have done it.

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The whole episode seemed disjointed to me.  Two very separate murders and only brief looks at the other characters, left me dissatisfied.

The love story was just too unrealistic to me.  Maybe Sidney doesn't know what he's getting into but Violet does.  Interracial marriage was illegal and prosecuted in the southern states until 1967. Pretty much everyone on both sides was against it.  Most  nice people were in favor of equal rights and integrated schools, but still thought intermarriage was wrong, "because of the children," and the not nice ones would throw bombs and shoot guns into the homes of mixed race couples.

My Methodist church in West Virginia had  a new minister in 1962, transferred to us from the south because he had worked in the Civil Rights movement and his little girl had lost an eye in some sort of retaliation.  If Geordie thought Sidney was making suicidal moves in the criminal cases it's good he doesn't know what he's doing now.

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The quitting everything and running off to be with a woman thing was even more jarring because I rewatched last season's finale right before this one came on, so it came right after he was wrestling with what to do about Amanda and realizing he couldn't leave the church for her. I guess he's not technically leaving the church and will be part of a cause, but I doubt he'll be able to be a pastor, given that mixed-race marriage was illegal at that time. You have to wonder what Amanda will think, given that he wasn't willing to give up his career for her, but he ditches everything for the next woman who comes along.

They had a good built-in way to have written Sidney out. It seems like it was pretty commonly known in the village that he'd been involved with a married woman. Once he decided not to resign, the Bishop probably would have reassigned him, since his spiritual authority in that village would have been damaged by his behavior. He could have been sent to have a fresh start somewhere else. It isn't just the pedophiles who get reassigned because of scandal.

I've reached the point when I'm glad he's going to be gone because the self-pity was getting to be overwhelming. We'll see how things go with the new priest.

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I loved the opening with Sidney chasing the criminal on the run.  With the song and the smile on his face, that scene conveyed more joy than anything I can remember from the past season.

I like Violet and think she is a strong, positive match for Sidney ... but I agree with what others have written here.  Much too fast!  They should have stretched the storyline out over the season.

Edited by HelenCrump
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The entire Sidney/Violet romance was too unrealistic and developed too fast.  I was getting really tired of the boozing, cigarette every minute Sidney.  I'm actually glad he's gone.  Violet deserved much better than him.  He still seemed way too conflicted about life to make the life changing decision that he did.  I'm glad the story won't be following him to America.  

On the other hand, I loved Geordie.

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I'm fine with the ending.  It wasn't the smartest choice Sidney's ever made, but when did he ever make a smart choice?  He chose the right woman -- he's just not the right man.  Maybe life in Alabama will be the sea change he needs.

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I had a hard time getting interested in this episode. Just did not buy Sidney falling in love so fast and leaving. The whole thing felt unbelievable to me. Hoping future episodes are better. 

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I thought this return suffered especially in comparison to to the mystery series that PBS aired in the same time slot the previous weeks.  There were quite a few moments when I was watching Sidney tediously boozing and smoking his cancer sticks when I thought, damn, I wish Endeavour was on instead.

Sigh. I used to find Grantchester very compelling during the first season.

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I thought this tied up Sydney's story nicely.  His romance with Violet happened too quickly, but for storyline purposes it pretty much had to, to get him off to America.  The first half, about the brother's murder, was full of stereotypes.  The second half, about the prostitutes, was more interesting, although painful.

The fete scenes were well done.  Loved Cathy paying for the ride.  "It's only tuppence."  It's interesting to watch how she and Geordie are negotiating family life after last season's revelations.

Looking forward to new episodes this season, to see how the new vicar pans out, etc.

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I really wanted Violet to tell Sidney that he needed to figure out who he was first and for Sidney to decide to backpack through Germany and deal with his issues from the war, like we saw back in S1 and say maybe his trip would take him to Alabama one day. That would have worked for me.

I did like when Sidney told Violet that he'd done that, slept with random women, a lot.

I'm glad to see Geordie making the dinner and watching the kids and hope it keeps up.

I was wholly disappointed in the first mystery. The son of the black activist being murdered by someone within the organization always bothers me as a resolution. Always. Yes, this was about jealousy and not power, and they conveniently made the guy white, but it was the same story I'd seen a thousand times on Law & Order. Ugh.

I'm looking forward to Will and his perfect teeth next episode.

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5 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'm looking forward to Will and his perfect teeth next episode.

They are enormous and white, aren't they? Rather like Will, heh.

I'm glad we got to see Dickens! I presume he comes with the vicarage, given the expense of transporting a dog overseas.

Upcoming previews: Did I see Inspector Lynley? There's a crossover I wouldn't mind.

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I enjoyed Violet & Sidney together. Yes, it went somewhat at warp speed but they had the chemistry and I think she had a good way of keeping him from giving in to his need for self-pity. As for Amanda, to me, that was all completely done by the end of S3. To me, Sidney & Amanda loved each other but a lot of the longing was due to being denied a real chance to be together prior so they couldn't let go of the "what if" dream. Once they got together, the flame seemed to burn brightly initially but went out rather quickly, especially with the pressures of real life coming at them.

Sidney definitely ran with his exit but I also thought he was running towards something with Violet in America instead of just running away as he has done before. 

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I've only been able to watch episode 1 so far, and I hated it. I read a lot about the civil rights movement and normally am thrilled to see anything related to it on TV, but it felt weird to shoehorn an English angle into it. And the terrible interpretations of southern accents were driving me crazy the whole time.

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18 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

And the terrible interpretations of southern accents were driving me crazy the whole time.

I was completely taken out of the moment by the bad accents.

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I knew the first episode’s villain was Samuel West the second he appeared, because shows don’t hire a name like that and then give him nothing to do. (The second ep’s villain was just as easy to guess but that was a Just Because It Has to Be Him.)

I’m sorry James Norton has left the show (I may be shallow, but I also enjoy his acting and chemistry with the rest of the regular cast), but perhaps it’s for the best as the show had painted the character into a corner with Amanda (and the boozing and smoking and self-pitying). And they didn’t kill him off so if the show has a long run it’s possible to bring him back someday, even for a one-off. Here’s hoping the show runners learned their lesson and revert back to Grantchester S1 form with Will (fewer demons, more detecting). And we still have Mrs. C and Leonard, now with Snippy Parishioners.

Gotta say, that last backgammon game, when Robson Green wept I did, too. 

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On 7/14/2019 at 10:54 PM, nara said:

 I  can believe that he left the priesthood for a cause rather than for love, but not this. 

Well, he's not left the priesthood, as he's still a priest, he's just left his vicarage.

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13 hours ago, AllAboutMBTV said:

I knew the first episode’s villain was Samuel West the second he appeared, because shows don’t hire a name like that and then give him nothing to do.

Same here.  He's always  Leonard Bast to me since "Howards End," is my all time favorite movie.

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Ugh, the southern accents in the first 2 episodes are terrible!  Why do Brits always do that long drawn out drawl when they try to sound southern (Vivian Leigh in Gone with the Wind)?  Don't like the new guy Will much, tired of the Leonard is secretly gay storyline, Geordie is still an ass to his wife most of the time, Mrs. M or C now I guess is still kinda snippy and fun, but overall this show hasn't held up over the seasons the way Endeavor has or even Call the Midwife.  I'm not sure I will finish this season.  Oh and for the record, Elvis didn't write his own songs, nor did he try to claim that he did except for a co-writing credit on a couple for royalty purposes.  I'm not sure what that line of Violet's about knowing musicians Elvis plagiarized was about or why it was included.  It was just odd!

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11 hours ago, lark37 said:

   Oh and for the record, Elvis didn't write his own songs, nor did he try to claim that he did except for a co-writing credit on a couple for royalty purposes.  I'm not sure what that line of Violet's about knowing musicians Elvis plagiarized was about or why it was included.  It was just odd!

I think it was to drive home the White Man taking credit for the Black Man's work.  Or something to that effect.  In real life, Elvis was one of the very few white singers of that time who gave credit to the black singers and musicians that originally did the music he recorded and made popular among white audiences.   

The original recordings by the black artists were considered "Race" recordings and couldn't get played on most white aimed radio stations.  The original versions were considered too sexy (and black!)  and the white versions were "cleaned up".  Elvis was so shocking because he didn't lose the sexiness,  and then you had the gyrating... middle aged white people clutched their pearls in horror.  And the rest is history!  

And ironically, it was the 1960s white British blues musicians that brought fame to many of those original black musicians from the 20s through the 50s.   How many people would know who Robert Johnson was if it weren't for Eric Clapton, or John Lee Hooker if it weren't for Eric Burdon and The Animals?  And the list could go on.  

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The timeline is throwing me through a loop still.

In my earlier post i mentioned how leonard mentioned going to see 'the king and i' in what i'm pretty sure was the cinema, thinking that it gave us a 60s timestamp (I was thinking it came out in the 60s at some point before tsom in '65 (?)). But nope. 'the king and i' was released in '56 so we can assume it's basically '56 or '57 unless the uk theater release was delayed for some time for whatever reason.

Paired with the fact that wikipedia (i know it should be taken with a grain of salt) has the season 3 finale episode description listed as 1955...is it really only supposed to be about a year or two after the season 3 finale has taken place bc that's not how everyone seems to act in the show???? They're all acting and talking like it's been multiple years (which would land us in the 60s). ????? It doesn't match up well at all.

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18 hours ago, lark37 said:

Ugh, the southern accents in the first 2 episodes are terrible!  Why do Brits always do that long drawn out drawl when they try to sound southern (Vivian Leigh in Gone with the Wind)?

Or indeed, when they try to sound American.

Also, characters who were British black people were strangely lacking in both episodes. It was as if black people only live in America.

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23 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I think it was to drive home the White Man taking credit for the Black Man's work.  Or something to that effect.  In real life, Elvis was one of the very few white singers of that time who gave credit to the black singers and musicians that originally did the music he recorded and made popular among white audiences.   

The original recordings by the black artists were considered "Race" recordings and couldn't get played on most white aimed radio stations.  The original versions were considered too sexy (and black!)  and the white versions were "cleaned up".  Elvis was so shocking because he didn't lose the sexiness,  and then you had the gyrating... middle aged white people clutched their pearls in horror.  And the rest is history!  

And ironically, it was the 1960s white British blues musicians that brought fame to many of those original black musicians from the 20s through the 50s.   How many people would know who Robert Johnson was if it weren't for Eric Clapton, or John Lee Hooker if it weren't for Eric Burdon and The Animals?  And the list could go on.  

Well, 12crazycat, you sure opened my eyes to something I didn't know! I just did some research and found that there are claims that Elvis "stole" the black sound and style. In my opinion and as many of the articles I found pointed out, it is a invalid accusation, though, because he certainly wasn't the first to use elements of jazz and R & B in his musical style. However, he was the most successful one to do so back in the late 50s, so I guess it was easy to pin it all on him. By the time The Beatles and The Rolling Stones came along, it was commonplace for elements of R & B and jazz to be used in rock. John Lennon stated that he was heavily influenced by jazz and blues. I didn't enjoy episode 1 at all, but at least I learned something new. Thanks for your explanation!

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Buh-bye, Sydney. Did they purposely screw up your character so I’d be glad to see you go? Good luck, Violet, you’ll need it.

Hey, Geordie, the reason I watch, get your shit together, mate.

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Leonard was so precious this episode. After seeing all the delightful awkwardness i'm kinda mad that will's popped in to steal the vicar spot. I would have been totally happy with the rest of the season just being leonard attempting to help solve crimes.

Leonard and Mrs. MC have been super precious this season so far, so her finally learning about daniel hurt my soul. I have faith that she'll come around hopefully. They seemed to have grown so close in the mysterious amount of time since the season 3 finale (? Seriously, does anyone know what year it's supposed to be?).

Mom took one look at Geordie in his new suit and said, 'he looks better in brown' so she and geordie are both in agreement about not being fond of the new suit.

Poor cathy :( she didn't deserve this. 

Cathy and Geordie haven't been married nearly as long as i thought they've been. They married old (nothing wrong with that, ofc). I was expecting like 20th or 25th or something (even if their oldest is only a young teeny bopper). Huh. 

Larry (?) of the police department is also precious and needs to be protected. The other new detective/copper (?), however hasn't left an impression yet. He's basically just a extra body used to fill up some more space at this point.

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On 1/29/2019 at 8:55 PM, Kirsty said:

So when he decides to go with Violet to Alabama it simply looks like he's running away from his problems. He's latching onto the latest pretty stranger in his life, desperately pinning his hopes on her magical ability to save him from himself.

I found this ending practically comedic. He'd barely given a thought to the life Violet would have been living until she showed up--five minutes before announcing he had to go to the US he'd suggested she just stay in Grantchester and "help people" with him and the storyline included Geordie proving his point about how police could be perfectly fair and just. Now he's going to show up Alabama during the Civil Rights movement, a white guy who barely functions as a respectable authority figure with a squad of people worrying about him. I don't buy Violet's any better at taking him in hand than anyone else. Sure it was great when she told him to stop feeling sorry for himself already, but Geordie said the same thing, he just wasn't besotted with him. It just made me feel sorry for Violet and her church who was going to have to look after him while he stumbled his way into one problem after another in the deep south. The only warning she gave him was that he might go to jail because he's with her as if it would all be even as orderly as that!

Also, I can't speak on what a person of Violet's background would be like but I was surprised a minister's daughter from 1950s Alabama was so open about her very casual sex life, not just sleeping with the vicar right away but making jokes about it. And she apparently plans to be the same way back in Alabama.

Just made me think there were so many reasons for him to leave that the supremely bad idea of using the US Civil Rights movement--as represented by a young black woman--as handy tool for personal growth.

The show's on much firmer footing with homophobia and sexual harassment, I think.

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I didn’t realize Saturday’s PBS showing was of episodes 1-2 together. I find this an odd choice. I stopped watching after Violet told Sydney he drank too much. I see no reason why a young black American woman would fall for a pathetic, drunk, and promiscuous white vicar in the 1950s, even if she’s far from home. The accents annoyed me as well.

I came back for episode 3. I love Leonard and used to enjoy Geordie, but I’m not a fan of the new vicar. Too similar to Sydney, yet too different, I don’t know. It almost feels like in the old American soaps when they would introduce a new actor: “the role of Sydney Chambers is now being played by...” And why remind us of him all the time as if he was dead? “Oh Sydney would have loved that, oh Sydney this, Sydney that.

@12catcrazy, I hear you about bringing 2019 morals to the show, with regards to Violet, but also Leonard and the other characters in tonight’s show.  Wouldn’t poor Leonard be run out of town back then if the house keeper had found out?  Would he even risk kissing his lover in the parish house? I understood how Sydney could be understanding, but a cop like Geordie? Those were awful and cruel times for the LGBT population, the show just acts like everyone knew and it was all fine.

Maybe I’m just being cranky.

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2 hours ago, Desperado said:

@12catcrazy, I hear you about bringing 2019 morals to the show, with regards to Violet, but also Leonard and the other characters in tonight’s show.  Wouldn’t poor Leonard be run out of town back then if the house keeper had found out?  Would he even risk kissing his lover in the parish house? I understood how Sydney could be understanding, but a cop like Geordie? Those were awful and cruel times for the LGBT population, the show just acts like everyone knew and it was all fine.

Yes, the laid back attitude was very strange especially since the victim was loosely based on mathematician Alan Turing, who at this same time period (mid '50s) was convicted of soliciting a male prostitute and sentenced to chemical castration.

Other than that, this was a perfect episode for Leonard to help Geordie, but I don't think he'd be much help over the course of a season.  He runs like Peewee Hermann.

BTW, I assume that the reason PBS ran the first 2 episodes together was because they bookend Sydney's exit story. 

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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On 7/18/2019 at 10:56 AM, 12catcrazy said:

I hate when tv shows sort of transport 2019 morality to earlier time periods.  I find it hard to believe that a woman like Violet would have immediately jumped into bed with a guy she just met (and the local Vicar, at that!).  What these shows seem to forget is that "nice" women didn't really do that back then especially when you consider that "the pill" wasn't yet available and an out of wedlock pregnancy could really ruin your life.   Violet wasn't in some Bohemian/Artsy/Intellectual type of circle.  She was the respectable daughter of a Minister and Civil Rights Activist.   And I doubt if an interracial relationship would have been looked kindly upon even in her Father's world back then.  

A lot of this is true.  But "nice" women did have sex. It wasn't talked about as freely but it happened.

I had been liking Grantchester less and less.  James Norton was fine as an actor but Sidney was tough to watch with his being tortured over Amanda while also being a super sleuth.  Then we had Geordie's affair on top of it all.

But tonight's episode was really good.  I liked Leonard and Geordie working together.  Leonard was helpful but it was still primarily Geordie's case. 

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14 hours ago, Desperado said:

 Wouldn’t poor Leonard be run out of town back then if the house keeper had found out?  

This part I could believe, because Mrs. C. was so shocked I could very much believe that she wouldn't even speak about it. But even that was serious enough that he took himself out of the running and she accepted it.

I expect there's more to come there and I won't be surprised if they ultimately do give everybody 2019 attitudes about it, but I bought Mrs. C not telling anyone what she saw in the moment.

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If they were trying to help the eye-candy withdrawal by putting Geordie in that suit -- it worked for me!  I thought his discomfort in the "gigolo" suit and the awkwardness with Leonard about all things "Greek" was adorable.  

  I like that Mrs. C carries all the conventional attitudes of the day because it reminds us of just how things were, plus it's heart warming to see her learn and grow.  

So far I think this is going to be a good season with all of them and the new vicar having to break the ice with everyone but Dickens.

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I didn't think the suit fabric looked like shark skin. It looked nice on G since the brown always looked awful. Sad that Cathy's boss turned out to be such a cad. She loved her job. Dammit I'm mad for her!

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So can we assume that Cathy told Geordie what happened?  I assume so, and I'm wondering what Geordie will do about it.  "Importuning" is a crime, and that's what the guy did.  So there!

I like that Leonard is out of the closet with Mrs. C.  It will force her to face her bias -- if indeed she has one.  I suspect she's not a homophobe -- she's just unenlightened, provincial.  She can't imagine that someone she likes could be one of those

That was a nice introduction to Will.  I just hope he's not too nice.  Dickens liked him, so he must be okay.

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I just saw the first two episodes of Season 4. The character of Violet makes the obligatory black swipe at Elvis Presley with the charge of plagiarism of black artists. Not true. Elvis grew up in the Deep South, not far from me. He was greatly influenced by the blues scene in his native Mississippi and acknowledged that, the same way The Rolling Stones did when visiting Mississippi and Alabama to experience the blues culture. Elvis always paid royalties to those artists he covered and credited them. So the comment by Violet was unwarranted and made me dislike her immediately. As for Sydney, I believe Great Britain had a serious problem developing in Northern Ireland, where his attentions might have been appreciated more than far distant Alabama. And Amanda? She dodged a bullet.

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Enjoyed this episode so much  more than the first two. Can't believe that the men would kiss where they could be seen, not back then.

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On 7/18/2019 at 11:40 PM, lark37 said:

 I'm not sure what that line of Violet's about knowing musicians Elvis plagiarized was about or why it was included.  It was just odd!

The only way this line makes sense is if Violet has traveled with her father throughout the south and stayed in some of the same hotels as black musicians and actually got to talk to them. Even then, most of the songs by black artists Elvis had rerecorded had long faded from the charts. 

On 7/22/2019 at 12:52 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

Other than that, this was a perfect episode for Leonard to help Geordie, but I don't think he'd be much help over the course of a season. 

Leonard is sweet and adorable but also too dumb to live. He didn't understand the hints and coded language Geordie was trying to use. Geordie wasn't even being that subtle.

On 7/21/2019 at 11:01 PM, Desperado said:

Would he even risk kissing his lover in the parish house? I understood how Sydney could be understanding, but a cop like Geordie? Those were awful and cruel times for the LGBT population, the show just acts like everyone knew and it was all fine.

Leonard was being incredibly stupid and taking a huge risk. Geordie might be thinking of him as a potential informant/source of information. 

On 7/23/2019 at 10:35 AM, khyber said:

Enjoyed this episode so much  more than the first two. Can't believe that the men would kiss where they could be seen, not back then.

Agreed.

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4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Leonard is sweet and adorable but also too dumb to live. He didn't understand the hints and coded language Geordie was trying to use. Geordie wasn't even being that subtle.

Not sure what scene you're describing.  I think after Leonard realized Geordie was interested in "Greeks" rather than Greeks he understood everything.  He is naïve, but not stupid. 

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8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

He is naïve, but not stupid. 

Yes and Leonard was as startled as we were by the kiss and was backing away as far as he could.  It's his boyfriend who has always been rash and Leonard has been mad at him for it every time.  He should be more mindful of Leonard's career and how much more he would suffer from exposure than those in more artistic fields.

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Leonard is charming but socially clueless. His behavior is often exaggerated and ridiculous. I mean, he's a fine enough side character, but ...just a side character.

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