Batwoman in the Media: Send the Bat Signal

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

Replacements... I wouldn't mind seeing Bex Taylor-Klaus or Brianna Hildebrand. Both are openly gay and good actors, and could handle the physicality of the role. The latter looks a little more like Ruby. I feel like they're going to need a bigger name than Ruby, though, because they're going to have to get the audience on board right off the bat, which would be harder to do with a smaller name or an unknown.

Bex already spent a year on Arrow so I doubt they'll consider her, and I think they'll want an actress who is 5'6-5'8.

[shantown]

23 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

This crew stays messy! Looking like Rubys exit definitely wasnt all roses.

Without knowing anything else, I'm inclined to side with Ruby if "The Jar" is being their usual smug asshat selves on the other side.

8 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

they're going to have to get the audience on board right off the bat, which would be harder to do with a smaller name or an unknown.

Right off the bat? Good one!

[Featherhat]

So they say it's not related to health issues due to the stunts which would be a handy "get out clause" if both sides had come to a mutual agreement that it wasn't working out for whatever reason or she needed privacy and everyone to publicly accept what happened quickly and move on without scandal for months. 

The producers also took the blame when Colton Haynes had personal problems on Arrow saying they'd only locked him in to a 2 year contract in the first place, even though it was a straight up lie to help him recover. OF course that wouldn't work for RR as lead and she's 10 times higher profile, but if it was a mutual exit they'd come up with something that would take the heat off both. 

So especially with announcing a "World's Finest" crossover with Superman specifically mentioning RR this does seem like it might be a very sudden and highly messy BTS exit, or timed by one or other party for just after the finale. 

They aren't going to be able to sweep this under the rug without saying something further, especially with a lot of bored people at home speculating and no new content for months. 

In terms of leads leaving and being re cast early, it has happened but I can't remember off the top of my head. Many Patinkin came to mind - he just refused to show up on CM one day (having been trouble on other projects as well) and was extremely hastily replaced by Joe Magenta. But that was a new character and not recasting. And that comparison might be extremely unfair to RR but we don't know. 

[UnknownK]

10 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I did wonder if they meant older because if someone her age is having trouble doing the stunts...and what would that then do to Alice? Have to recast her to make sense that they're twins. Go older with Jacob. So you just recast the whole cast?

I think when they say mature they mean somebody in their 20's with CW looks and little to no experience that would accept the low pay CW shows offer while expected to kill themselves doing stunt work for the next 5 years until their contract runs out and they can hobble away as fast as they can.

[scarynikki12]

For what it's worth (Zack is a writer who has worked on Flash and The Sarah Connor Chronicles):

 

[Primal Slayer]

That was my initial thought that she got in over her head. 

[Chaser]

They went high profile with Ruby and I think it backfired. I would recast with an unknown. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

I could see how that would read as not being "mature" enough to suck it up like all the other actors do.

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I could see how that would read as not being "mature" enough to suck it up like all the other actors do.

Thats what I looked at it as. TheCW has been casting older actors/actresses in the past few years so there's no reason for him to try to come after the network in terms of ages. Especially after the characters age has been established and has a twin they to measure up against. 

[Trini]

I wonder if (in one way) this sudden exit makes the role more lucrative for an actress? I mean, the show's not in its first season "trial period". It's already established and renewed. I assume CW/WB now have more reasons to cater to the new hire so that they don't have to recast yet again.

[Featherhat]

Quote

Which is a longwinded way of saying that in the absence of evidence, don't assume drama. It might have just been an actor who wasn't prepared for 60-80 hour work weeks 9 months a year in the Vancouver rain.

That makes sense, I was just thinking if they made sure to say it wasn't because of any physical problems then there had to be some sort of bigger drama than the above. Though that could be a reason to call her out as not "mature enough" to handle that. Though it's still a very sudden announcement if this is part of the reason. 

I think they'll go with an unknown, possibly who looks at least a little like RR so the changeover won't be too jarring.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Featherhat

[quarks]

58 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

When was the last time something like this happened? The series lead quitting after one season and actually having to recast the role itself, not just replacing them with a new character.

The example that immediately leapt to mind was Eartha Kitt taking over for Julie Newmar on Batman, very much back in the day. Of course that wasn't a lead role.

The other genre example that came to mind was Robin of Sherwood, which recast Robin after one or two seasons, although that's not a great example since Robin II was supposed to be an entirely different Robin Hood who just also happened to be called Robin and liked running around the woods shooting at people and who just happened to fall in love with Maid Marian. 

Back to Batwoman - 1) rumor has it that some cast members have expressed concern about returning to film this July for COVID-19 reasons, which might well be playing a role here, 2) the speculation that Ruby Rose didn't realize how overwhelming the workload would be sounds pretty reasonable, 3) in terms of making that announcement about the Batwoman/Superman and Lois crossover before this news, that seems to have been something that the CW said to reporters before they confirmed it with the producers. It's entirely possible that the CW PR person was unaware that Ruby Rose would be leaving the show.

 

1 minute ago, Trini said:

I wonder if (in one way) this sudden exit makes the role more lucrative for an actress? I mean, the show's not in its first season "trial period". It's already established and renewed. I assume CW/WB now have more reasons to cater to the new hire so that they don't have to recast yet again.

 

I doubt it. The CW shows are kinda notorious for paying most of their cast members on scale. 

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

I wonder if (in one way) this sudden exit makes the role more lucrative for an actress? I mean, the show's not in its first season "trial period". It's already established and renewed. I assume CW/WB now have more reasons to cater to the new hire so that they don't have to recast yet again.

Unless they are an established actress, TheCW still has the power move where the actress needs them more then they need them. WB courted Jennifer Love Hewitt and Tiffany Amber Theissan to replace Shannen Doherty, they were both fairly established and were able to just say no. Headlining your own show is to much to pass up on, especially when it's a guaranteed 5 seasons and sure to make you into a name.

[UnknownK]

I would think most actors want to have own take and vision on a character and you can't really do that when taking over another actors role. For good or bad people will think of RR as Batwoman until a new show with that character is made.

[Proteus]

I'm in shock. I loved this show. Now I don't know if I even want it to go on.

[loki567]

I definitely think it was simply a case of exhaustion. Look at RR's career, she's never been the lead in anything and probably has never had more than a few weeks of filming at a time. To suddenly be thrown into Batwoman's schedule would be absolutely brutal. 

I don't think there a more exhausting role for an actor than a 22-episode action adventure show. I've heard multiple actors complain how grueling the days could be. Even Buffy ended because SMG was sick of it. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, UnknownK said:

I would think most actors want to have own take and vision on a character and you can't really do that when taking over another actors role. For good or bad people will think of RR as Batwoman until a new show with that character is made.

While Ruby was improving....another actress could easily come in and make the role their own. She wasn't that beloved by fans yet, didnt have a ship that sailing yet, just come in with some better skills and ya golden! I think the overall look is the biggest hurtle since Ruby had the look.

1 minute ago, loki567 said:

I definitely think it was simply a case of exhaustion. Look at RR's career, she's never been the lead in anything and probably has never had more than a few weeks of filming at a time. To suddenly be thrown into Batwoman's schedule would be absolutely brutal. 

I don't think there a more exhausting role for an actor than a 22-episode action adventure show. I've heard multiple actors complain how grueling the days could be. Even Buffy ended because SMG was sick of it. 

But even SMG did 7 seasons and was all in for the first 5. 

[TobinAlbers]

Not exactly the same but for Spartacus, Andy Whitfield was the lead in critically and fan acclaimed S1 and was then diagnosed with cancer. They delayed S2 and even filmed a prequel series set prior to his character to allow him time for treatment but they eventually had to recast with Liam McIntyre who took over for S2 through the end in S3. 

Ironic that the delay of The CW premieres to January due to Covid-19 has helped the show in that it’s bought the show a little more time in their recast search.

Still so bonkers. Gonna miss Ruby’s Kate Kane.

 

 

[quarks]

5 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

I would think most actors want to have own take and vision on a character and you can't really do that when taking over another actors role. 

Lots of actors did just that in minor roles over on Game of Thrones!

.....maybe not the most encouraging example.

[scarynikki12]

Whoever they cast I just hope they have enough sense to do chem tests with the rest of the cast. And maybe Melissa B if it's safe for her to do one.

[Trini]

The filming schedule (in Vancouver) could certainly be a factor; but whatever the main reason was, I feel like it probably has less to do with the show and more with something else going on with Ruby. There hasn't been any sniff of "drama" before this.

5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Whoever they cast I just hope they have enough sense to do chem tests with the rest of the cast. And maybe Melissa B if it's safe for her to do one.

Agreed - but this is exactly the time where chemistry tests are tricky to do. If you can do them at all.

[Trini]

/ Another show that recast their lead after the first season was Babylon 5; but it was a different actor playing a different character.

[scarynikki12]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

Agreed - but this is exactly the time where chemistry tests are tricky to do. If you can do them at all.

I wonder if they can chem test via Zoom...

[Lady Calypso]

Crap, this is absolutely shocking. If this IS due to pure exhaustion and not being prepared for how heavy of a workload Batwoman would be, I don't blame Ruby at all. It just sucks that she'll have to be recast. I really grew to love her in the role and Ruby had some great chemistry with some of the other actors on the show.

Maybe it's also because Ruby realized that she'd be committed to at least five more years in Vancouver and that's not what she wants to do anymore. And I have to imagine that her almost paralysis is a factor, even if it's not the main reason for her departure.

Either way, I do wish RR the best in her future and....I'm just going to see who they recast in her role. 

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

The filming schedule (in Vancouver) could certainly be a factor; but whatever the main reason was, I feel like it probably has less to do with the show and more with something else going on with Ruby. There hasn't been any sniff of "drama" before this.

Agreed - but this is exactly the time where chemistry tests are tricky to do. If you can do them at all.

You can do a lot 6 ft apart.

I think as far as chemistry reads.....doing one with Rachel, actress who plays Mary are the most important, then comes the actress who plays Sophie with Melissa being dead last since....from the sounds of it, Supergirl/Batwoman aint gonna be seeing each other anytime sooon

[UnknownK]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

But even SMG did 7 seasons and was all in for the first 5. 

SMG had no life outside of the show that 5 years. The show started airing in 1997 and 5 years later would be 2002 which corresponded to her getting married to Freddie Prinze Jr.

Most actors would rather be movie stars and work a few months out of the year making decent money then doing 22 episode TV shows 60-80 hrs weeks 9 months out of the year for less pay. Especially when you are the main character that is in 90% of the scenes.

You notice that when major actors went to TV is when episode count went down to 8-13 a year on premium cable for a decent salary.

I still recall interviews with Richard Dean Anderson (the original MacGyver) on how much work that show was to make and and how his personal life suffered. It was a few years after MacGyver ended before he did another TV show and by the time he did Stargate SG1 he made sure it was an ensemble show.

[Featherhat]

20 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

I would think most actors want to have own take and vision on a character and you can't really do that when taking over another actors role. For good or bad people will think of RR as Batwoman until a new show with that character is made.

I think you can. Especially if the show lasts for five plus seasons and you're in four of them for example. It's not easy and there will definitely be "Ruby was so much better" comments for a while but it's doable. There were a lot of "RR is absolutely terrible I wish she was recast" posts here and elsewhere a few months ago but she's been steadily winning people over. The next actress can too. Superhero roles are recast with a different take on things all the time, albeit mostly in different movies and series. 

[Sakura12]

I stopped watching this show but am shocked by this news. I didn't think Ruby had enough presence for the role but she wasn't completely terrible. I am curious to what made her quit though. 

[UnknownK]

Just now, Featherhat said:

I think you can. Especially if the show lasts for five plus seasons and you're in four of them for example. It's not easy and there will definitely be "Ruby was so much better" comments for a while but it's doable. There were a lot of "RR is absolutely terrible I wish she was recast" posts here and elsewhere a few months ago but she's been steadily winning people over. The next actress can too. Superhero roles are recast with a different take on things all the time, albeit mostly in different movies and series. 

All the Superman and Batman movies had a very big change in tone when they rebooted. 

Fans can be real pricks to actors and love to speculate about behind the scenes stuff and rip people apart. Anybody remember what happened when Lethal Weapon lost its main character after season 2? They just killed him off and got a decent replacement character but the ratings went to hell with the fans taking sides.

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

...from the sounds of it, Supergirl/Batwoman aint gonna be seeing each other anytime sooon

::sigh:: This after 2 crossovers building up (female) SuperBat.

 

5 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

 

Most actors would rather be movie stars and work a few months out of the year making decent money then doing 22 episode TV shows 60-80 hrs weeks 9 months out of the year for less pay. Especially when you are the main character that is in 90% of the scenes.

 

However, I'd also think "most actors" like a relatively steady paycheck, even if it's less. Not eveyone can be a "movie star".

[Lady Calypso]

I think that it's definitely going to be tricky to recast the lead actress. Whenever other shows have had to do that, it tends to not work out more than it does. 

Now, The CW is a bit of a different story because, unless the show's ratings drop and the backlash is enormous, it should be safe for three more seasons, at least. But...this is a blow to Batwoman, for sure. Ruby started off with mixed reactions but she's really fit into the role well as the season has gone on. 

They don't have a lot of options to try to minimize the damage from this recast. I can see them either casting a high profile actress to try to soften the blow, or they have to cast a complete unknown and hope for the best. I know they say they want to cast an LGBTQ actress (which isn't a bad idea) but we'll have to see who the recast is. 

[scarynikki12]

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

from the sounds of it, Supergirl/Batwoman aint gonna be seeing each other anytime sooon

True (sob!) but that's why I want a chem test with Melissa or for her and new Kate to have some one on one time (even over Zoom or the phone) once the casting is done. The next time we see Kara and Kate I want it to feel like we're seeing the instant BFF we got from Crisis instead of two people meeting for the first time.

[Primal Slayer]

21 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

SMG had no life outside of the show that 5 years. The show started airing in 1997 and 5 years later would be 2002 which corresponded to her getting married to Freddie Prinze Jr.

Most actors would rather be movie stars and work a few months out of the year making decent money then doing 22 episode TV shows 60-80 hrs weeks 9 months out of the year for less pay. Especially when you are the main character that is in 90% of the scenes.

You notice that when major actors went to TV is when episode count went down to 8-13 a year on premium cable for a decent salary.

I still recall interviews with Richard Dean Anderson (the original MacGyver) on how much work that show was to make and and how his personal life suffered. It was a few years after MacGyver ended before he did another TV show and by the time he did Stargate SG1 he made sure it was an ensemble show.

Ruby has less going on than SMG did. She did 3-4 major films while she was on Buffy and had harder material to work with. Ruby hasnt really done any major projects where she's been in a BIG role. Though Vancouver isnt as great as Cali so...there is that but she knew what she was getting herself into and made friends with a lot of Arrowverse casts.

IF she quit because of location and all that jazz....I dont feel that much for her since she was practically handed the role and didnt have to fight very hard for it.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

The suddenness of her departure and the variety of reaction tweets really make it hard for me to believe there wasn’t drama. 

[Oreo2234]

I don't watch this show much as much as Supergirl or Legends of Tomorrow but from what I saw of it Ruby was growing into the role and had good chemistry with most of her co-stars.  It's a good thing Batwoman has a strong supporting cast. 

Quote

:sigh:: This after 2 crossovers building up (female) SuperBat.

Ruby Rose and Melissa Benoist had great buddy chemistry in the crossovers. It's too bad we won't see them together in another one.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, ruby24 said:

When was the last time something like this happened? The series lead quitting after one season and actually having to recast the role itself, not just replacing them with a new character.

The co-lead in Cagney & Lacey, Meg Foster, was replaced by Sharon Gless after the first season, and that's who people remember as Cagney.

Edited May 20, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Starfish35]

12 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Ruby Rose and Melissa Benoist had great buddy chemistry in the crossovers. It's too bad we won't see them together in another one.

Yeah they did.  I haven’t watched Batwoman, but I thought Ruby was fine in the crossovers.  And I really enjoyed the SuperBat scenes.  

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The co-lead in Cagney & Lacey, Meg Foster was replaced by Sharon Gless after the first season, and that's who people remember as Cagney.

True, but looking it up, and Meg Foster was only in the role for six episodes before the network replaced her with Sharon Gless; the actress didn't quit, in that case. 

But I think there's a difference between recasting when there are other leads involved, and recasting the lead actor or actress whose name is in the title of the show. Recasting the main lead in a TV show is worse than recasting a supporting character and 9/10 times, it fails. 

Spartacus is the most prominent example. The lead actor had to leave because he got sick, but the show suffered because of the recast. The show ended up getting cancelled and I believe a big part of that was due to the recast.

[thuganomics85]

Whoa, I just heard about all of this!  Certainly never would have predicted this to happen!

I guess we might eventually get the complete story somewhere down the line, but I definitely can see it being a case of Ruby Rose not realizing exactly what she got herself into by headlining a show like this.  By all accounts, it can be a grueling experience from what has been said by other D.C. show headliners like Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin, and it's possible that Ruby just decided it wasn't worth it for her.  Plus, while Vancouver certainly seems like a lovely place, it does sound like it can a lonely place, if people's families live elsewhere (plus the coldness!)

Either way, while Ruby should obviously do what she thinks is best for her, I'm still sad.  While I found Alice and Mary to be the highlights of the show, I thought Ruby really came into her own by the end of the season, and ended up being a great Kate.  Hopefully whoever they cast ends up being a good fit as well and works well with the rest of the cast.  I also agree that it would be cool if they had the new actresses screen test with Melissa Benoist as well for any future Kate/Kara scenes.

Of course, we have to wait till 2021 (at best) to see how this all plays out, so it's going to certainly be interesting until then!

[VCRTracking]

 

 

I remember when this happened. It was an adjustment to be sure, but I got used to it eventually. It helped that the producers took the opportunity to do a soft reboot also recasting Lex with an older actor (it's explained he had plastic surgery to resemble the head of a corporation) and made him way wore psychotic. The stories became more edgier and less safe.

1 hour ago, Trini said:

::sigh:: This after 2 crossovers building up (female) SuperBat.

 

However, I'd also think "most actors" like a relatively steady paycheck, even if it's less. Not eveyone can be a "movie star".

And even if they just are supporting characters in movies, they can be away from home for months and not see your family. Paget Brewster said she decided to do more TV gigs because it was lonely staying in hotels all the time. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by VCRTracking

[sweetandsour]

Tom Welling has openly and unabashedly talked about the toll that filming Smallville took on him.  For years and years afterwards, he stayed away from television.  I'm not sure if he told his people, no lead roles or no tv at all, but he was so over it.  Granted, it took him quite a few seasons to get to that breaking point, but he hated the long days/months and minimal sleep.  I think he's even said he would petulantly refuse to get/stay in shape over the summer hiatus and just come back to shoot the new season looking however he looked.  He just could not care about putting even more time into the show.

Happily, he did have a nice reunion with television as an ensemble character on Lucifer, so yay for that.  He initially made sure to negotiate a certain number of episodes only, but came to enjoy the show/set so much that he asked about appearing in more episodes than that original number.

Anyway, I don't really have anything to add to the "why" speculation behind RR's departure.  I know the party line is it had nothing to do with her previous injury, and while that may be true, it was kind of a yucky indirect reminder of that production assistant's grave injury right before the Batwoman set shut down due to the pandemic.  I don't think it was at all calculated for the production team to say that (as if they were trying to give the impression, "set safety is not a problem here and no one worries about that, let alone our previous star"), but I feel quite badly for the young lady who was hurt.

[Trini]

Batwoman Jeopardy! clue:

 

[possibilities]

Isn't it really hard for an actor to get out of their contract? They can be fired, but quitting is tough. I hope she doesn't have COVID19 or some other problem that made it obvious she couldn't continue.

 

[Rushmoras]

I mean, if you talking about recasting leads... anyone remember Bewitched? Dick York being seamlessly replaced by Dick Sargent? And it happened, I think in season one?

[bmoore4026]

I just want the replacement actress to be LGBT.  They can be a lesbian or transgender, I don't care.  And have them be from Canada so filming in Vancouver won't be too much of a problem.

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

I mean, if you talking about recasting leads... anyone remember Bewitched? Dick York being seamlessly replaced by Dick Sargent? And it happened, I think in season one?

Much later. Dick York was Darren for the first five seasons. Dick Sargent replaced him in the last three seasons.

[Cranberry]

12 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

I just want the replacement actress to be LGBT.  They can be a lesbian or transgender, I don't care.  And have them be from Canada so filming in Vancouver won't be too much of a problem.

The producers said they want someone LGBT, so you should be in luck there. It does narrow the pool, though.

I remember Natasha Negovanlis (from Carmilla) wanting the role when it was first being cast. She's in Toronto. She's not a big name, though, and she doesn't look much like Ruby. She also overacts a bit for my taste, but I don't think she's any worse than Ruby. If I were her, I'd be on the phone with my agent.

[scarynikki12]

Stephanie Beatriz has tweeted her interest in the role as well.

48 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I remember Natasha Negovanlis (from Carmilla) wanting the role when it was first being cast.

 

[Lantern7]

57 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

The producers said they want someone LGBT, so you should be in luck there. It does narrow the pool, though.

I remember Natasha Negovanlis (from Carmilla) wanting the role when it was first being cast. She's in Toronto. She's not a big name, though, and she doesn't look much like Ruby. She also overacts a bit for my taste, but I don't think she's any worse than Ruby. If I were her, I'd be on the phone with my agent.

 

8 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Stephanie Beatriz has tweeted her interest in the role as well.

Wait, so Mary taking the Batwoman role as her own isn't even on the table???

I'm kidding. Seriously, though, it's a shame Ruby is leaving. I felt she did a great job in the role.

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Isn't it really hard for an actor to get out of their contract? They can be fired, but quitting is tough. I hope she doesn't have COVID19 or some other problem that made it obvious she couldn't continue.

 

I still tend to think if there was some easily explainable physical health issue that will become public sooner rather than later in the uproar over this, but I think it's something different and possibly not as clear cut. 

I guess if it was her that wanted out then the producers figured it was worth it to let her out of her contract now then deal with a star who doesn't want to be there for another 5 years. That's not unusual, although it doesn't often happen with the actual leads of the show. More like someone like Ron Lowe who *thought* he should still be the lead of The West Wing long after it had changed direction or Katherine Heigl (and others!) from Grey's. If they did know at least a while in advance they may have tried to accommodate her with promises of more time off already or something but it didn't work out. 

Obviously if it was more of a network decision then they have a lot more control over contracts but currently I would be surprised if they were more doing the deciding in pulling the plug even though 

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

The suddenness of her departure and the variety of reaction tweets really make it hard for me to believe there wasn’t drama. 

 still seems true to me. Even if there are some very understandable reasons behind it from the insanity of network TV, to being no1 on an action show call sheet in Vancouver for scale pay.

40 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Stephanie Beatriz has tweeted her interest in the role as well.

I think she's a great actress but she's such a different one to RR I can't see it at the moment. I'd be sad to see her go from B99 as well. 

Natasha Negovanlis is also different but I could see it. 

The pool of out LGBT actresses willing to be recast in a high profile, very physical role, for CW pay and in Vancouver for many months of the year is not enormous but we'll see. 

Just thinking about it, there are many people that consider themselves some form of "queer" that doesn't fall neatly into a category, would they consider those actors as well? How about someone that said they were bi but didn't have an "proof" because they hadn't been out publicly before? 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Featherhat