S04.E09: Elseworlds Part III (2018.12.11)

[MarkHB]

Quote

THE BATTLE CONCLUDES — Supergirl (Melissa Benoist), The Flash (guest star Grant Gustin), Green Arrow (guest star Stephen Amell) and Superman (guest star Tyler Hoechlin) engage in the battle of their lives.

[MarkHB]

Any discussion or speculation about what 3rd parties (e.g., TPTB) are thinking, except as it directly pertains to the plot of the show itself, is off-limits.  This includes assertions about what the writers think of characters, relationships, or actors.

Example:

* Allowed: "I think Barry will be in the finale episode because his super speed powers will be needed."

* Forbidden: "I think Barry will be in the finale episode and get more screentime than Wally because the writers are racist."

Do not use this crossover as an excuse to engage in ship wars, be rude or rehash last year's crossover.  Keep it to the show, y'all.

[scarynikki12]

Crisis of Infinite Earths confirmed! That’s a hell of a way to end it. 

[apinknightmare]

All I'm left thinking about is what dumb thing Oliver did this time that's going to be a secret for however long.

[phoenics]

Just now, scarynikki12 said:

Crisis of Infinite Earths confirmed! That’s a hell of a way to end it. 

I feel like we couldv'e gotten to it in a cleaner way.  But I did enjoy the Superman parts... and I loved that Lois' outfit in the end was a callback to Margot Kidder's outfit from the "Can you Read My Mind" sequence.

[Lady Calypso]

Now, that was a pretty good final part to a mostly mediocre crossover. This part worked a lot better than the first two. 

Oliver saves the day! I mean, Kara/Barry helped, but Oliver was the badass!

Superman vs Deegan was awesome, especially since Hoechlin owned both roles. 

I have never cared about Superman in general (never watched any of the films, never read the comics) but damn if Hoechlin didn't convince me in this part that I'm dying for a Superman series. I loved his scenes with Lois as well. 

Overall, pretty damn good.

[MarkHB]

OH MY FUCKING GOD! 

Seriously, that's all I got.

[BkWurm1]

So they better stop bashing Oliver since it's apparent he just traded his life to save the world. Grr.    So much for lives to 87

[mtlchick]

Tyler was the MVP of this crossover...and now he and Lois are having a baby and need to move off Earth.  DAMMIT!

 

Since I've a DCTV watcher but not a DC reader, I need to start reading up on Crisis. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

All I'm left thinking about is what dumb thing Oliver did this time that's going to be a secret for however long.

oh shoot what did he do now?

[The Crazed Spruce]

Gotta say, I'm already psyched for next year's crossover. Hope they can work Black Lightning into it, too.

[cambridgeguy]

Either destroying the book made them invisible or the citizens of Central City are fazed by nothing.  Superman, Oliver, Supergirl, and the Flash are standing out in the open and NO ONE cared enough to gawk?

I guess the writers have solved the "Where's Superman?" problem for the foreseeable future.  I'm sure Perry White will be thrilled to see his best reporters vanish for over a year, and what an amazing coincidence that it coincides with Superman taking off.

I guess when the next crossover happens we'll learn what Oliver came up with to maintain the balance.

[phoenics]

My overall impression with the crossover this year was that it had the thinnest of plots, uneven characterization and was held together with meta-references, easter eggs, inside jokes and duct tape just to get us to "Surprise!!  It was all just to set up Batwoman and next year's crisis!"

[Jediknight]

Holy freaking shit!  Crisis is confirmed for next year!  Dude!

I really like this Lois, and I'm a fan of her and Clark's relationship in this.  Hoechlin and the actress have chemistry.  Lois and Clark better return.

Alex don't worry about finding a wife right now.  Kara knows a certain female billionaire, whose hobby is beating the shit out of criminals, and I think she'd like you.  I think you two would make a great team.

Liked the Winn reference with the dweeb in IT, that's now dating Pam in HR.  You gotta have an appearance in some way from all the regulars.

[phoenics]

And I guess we know now why this crossover kept hitting us over the head with the "Oliver is DAAAAAARRRRRKKKKK!" plot point - to set this contrived ending up.

[Primal Slayer]

So Pt.3 was definitely my favorite. We didnt have to waste a bunch of time setting things up, got some decent action, everyone was enjoyable, plenty of Superman. 

Overall as a comics fan this might be my fave just because of all the easter eggs but when I take out that aspect of me, this is probably #4 on my ranking of the crossovers. It was definitely a lot of cool moments but the story wasnt the strongest and it serves more of a prequel to the main event.

I am disappointed that we got so little of OG Flash and Batwoman. Batwoman was hyped up so I expected a lot more from her and you got the freakin OG Flash! Dont have him just disappear in a puff of smoke never to be heard of again! 

I'm already excited and scared of COIE  because this is one crossover where you shouldnt be letting anyone sit out so I do expect to see some version of Laurel Lance show up and help kick some ass. Along with other forgotten characters the show tends to ignore during crossovers. Of course 2hrs wont be enough to tell a proper story but im interested to see how they handle all the doppelgangers that should be showing up. Will we see everyone on different Earths fighting and only a few survive that end up coming together and will they really have the balls to merge some Earths with E1?

[insomniadreams88]

So Oliver just saved the world, which is great and all, but I really worry at what cost/how long he's going to keep it from everyone (except Felicity, which I refuse to believe he'll do after everything).

Like I said in the live thread, I'd prefer a Superman series with TH over a Batwoman series with RR, but they just made that impossible. 

Always love Kara and Alex scenes. 

Looking forward to COIE next year, but ... that's next year. They do realize everyone's going to have very high expectations waiting a year for something they'll already have high expectations of, right?

[The Crazed Spruce]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of course 2hrs wont be enough to tell a proper story but im interested to see how they handle all the doppelgangers that should be showing up.

Well, with Black Lightning and Batwoman, they'd have 6 hours to work with. Just sayin'....

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

oh shoot what did he do now?

He made a deal with the devil.

Questions! Questions! What about Earth-90 Barry/Flash?

And did they have to make Supes weaker than asshat Deegan/Bizarro? It should have been a more even-handed fight.

But I’m glad that the Evuhl Supes wasn’t Supes at all.

And EXCUUUUUUUUUSE me, but the World will ALWAYS need Superman!😒 Just as the Justice League. 

But yeah, this was the best of the three.

Stupid Oliver.

And I Still don’t get the purpose for what Monitor did. Is this the same character that provided Clancy Brown’s Lex with knowledge of EVERYTHING from Justice League Unlimited? He was an ASSHOLE here.

Still have noooo desire to watch “BatWoman.” Rose is just GODAWFUL.

[tennisgurl]

Damn, I could watch Oliver kick down doors and yell at God like beings about how sick he is of their shit all day long! Someone tell Oliver what a Big Damn Hero he is, right now! He clearly needs a pep talk or nine. 

CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS!!!! OH MY GOD!!!

[jay741982]

8 minutes ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

Gotta say, I'm already psyched for next year's crossover. Hope they can work Black Lightning into it, too.

I'd almost think they would have to. Doesn't Crisis on Infinite Earths merge all the worlds together?

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

Well, with Black Lightning and Batwoman, they'd have 6 hours to work with. Just sayin'....

True, if Batwoman gets picked up though and if BL are willing to play ball (I wont be mad if they dont tbh)

[shantown]

I'm bummed that Supergirl didn't get to fight Deegan's fake Superman - she was left without much to do on her own show (I have no idea what the running/flying really fast was even supposed to accomplish). And all it took in the end was just Oliver shooting the book? I wasn't real impressed with this crossover as a whole. I love the cast and enjoyed the behind-the-scenes videos of them goofing off together a lot more than the actual episodes. 

[calliope1975]

I wish that instead of being a glorified cameo, Batwoman had been more of the plot. Have her be a fleshed out character that pops into this crossover instead of only a tease to set up her show. BTW, is it confirmed that her show was being picked up? RR was...not great. 

[bettername2come]

It is not fair to dangle Superman/Clark Kent being adorable and good and dorky and living in domestic bliss with his partner/wife Lois Lane, who I'm starting to like a little more since she went and got backup and quoted studies on women in positions of leadership, and having little half-human babies and being exactly what the character should be, just to rip it all away and send him to Argo for the next 9 months. I want a spinoff! I've watched four seasons of Supergirl across two networks, I gave the woman her time to shine. Let me have my favorite hero back on The CW, in his cape and tights making his flights and good decisions!

*deep breath*

Okay, this was clearly the strongest episode of the three and I'm not just saying that because it had the most Tyler Hoechlin. But it was certainly a contributing factor, His Clark vs. Evil Superman was a really good and believable. 

I love Oliver's faith in his friends. I love his loyalty. I love his selflessness. I feel like his speech with Monitor made up for a lot of the negative things. But as much as I believe the chemistry between him and Barry and Kara when it's onscreen, dude, your wife deserves so much more credit than Barry. You wouldn't even be friends if not for her. 

I liked the nods to the original Superman movies with spinning earth to change time and the Margot Kidder dress and the coal crushed into a diamond. Although, I kind of wish they'd just gone with them already married, since they'd never actually said their marital status. 

I love the confirmation of Infinite Earths next year, although, haven't they always stated it as happening in 2024 on The Flash? Seriously how many Red Skies events can they have.

What do I have to do to get Kara, Lois and Iris reporting together? Or Kara and Caitlin freezing stuff together? Or James and Clark being bros? I keep asking and I keep getting rejected. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

I wish that instead of being a glorified cameo, Batwoman had been more of the plot. Have her be a fleshed out character that pops into this crossover instead of only a tease to set up her show. BTW, is it confirmed that her show was being picked up? RR was...not great. 

It hasnt. They are seeing how the pilot works out.

[BkWurm1]

Ok, I'm going to set aside whatever horrible sacrifice Oliver has agreed to make but other than that, this was the episode I was waiting for.  

There's a lot to unpack.  I'm not surprised Clark's news was leaving but I was surprised why.  That was a cute work around to have kids and to get Supes off planet for the big crisis on Supergirl in May. Also, she's world wide now, not just National City. 

I liked them taking the regulars and making them different people better than using them oddly in the earlier episodes. Cisco was fun and Diggle has been bad this season so I was good with him getting beat up in the elevator, lol.  

I don't entirely understand how what Barry and Kara was doing was helpful but ok.  

Is Deegen a comic character?  I'm assuming given the weird face he ended up with.  Also, boo that it seems clear there will be more of launching Batwoman on Arrow.  Where are they going to find the time??

Those bandanas looked terrible.  I'm not sure how they made them look so cheesy, lol.  They were supposed to be tough dudes. 

But not so tough that Evil Jimmy can't toss Oliver across a room?  Was Oliver holding back?  That really shouldn't have been a tough fight.  

I do love that Oliver just cut the crap and called out the Monitor.  Really don't love that he now has ANOTHER secret Felicity isn't in on.  Though I'll give him a pass on making the deal, whatever it is. And maybe on keeping it if he thinks there's nothing to be done.  I'm getting season five Smallville vibes that ended up with Pa Kent dying to restore the balance.  

But hopefully that's nothing to worry about until next year.  :(

Over all, this was a really good finale.  The pace was urgent but there were moments of heart without being too contrived.  

Really the only awful thing is this insistence that they need to save Oliver from his darkness.  Or that he can't be good enough.  

Edited December 12, 2018 by BkWurm1

[BunsenBurner]

All I got out of this is that SA/OQ has one more season and he will give himself up to die at the end of Season 8. He will die a hero to save the world. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by BunsenBurner

[RandomWatcher]

When I first read that Bitsie Tulloch was pregnant, I wondered if they would somehow write her pregnancy into the crossover and they did.

[mxc90]

Whew. It's finally over!

What was Deegan's/Monitor's test again? It lost me.  And I guess they are now fully prepared to handle the upcoming"crisis"? It should be over in 5 minutes!

They could have provided some insight how the other earth's super heroes failed. 

This Alex never met Kara and was easily manipulated by the story told. Terrible agent!

Bye Superman! I'm sure Metropolis will miss you too!

Nice knowing slowing down the Earth's rotation wouldn't cause any damage to it if Flash/Supergirl are in charge. 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

All I got out of this is that SA/OQ has one more season and he will give himself up to die at the end of Season 8. He will die a hero to save the world. 

 

Dammit!  I didn't want anyone to say that aloud.  Whelp

Edited December 12, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Lantern7]

"Worlds will live. Worlds will die. And the universe will never be the same."

My body is ready. Presumably all of the Arrowverse AND the Legends AND maybe even Black Lightning and his family. And maybe they could wipe out Earth-Riverdale. Something about Archie Comics characters being dramatic and sexy just ain't natural.

And Tyler Hoechlin is basically Superman at this point, right? No collateral damage like Cavill, no Biblical metaphors like with Routh. Very charming. It's just too bad that his Superman can't really exist with Supergirl being a major character. And given that Melissa Benoist is awesome as Kara, that's an acceptable trade-off. I don't really see Clark and Lois expecting a kid and then getting hitched . . . but screw it, lets see how many people flip out.

Great that the main heroes managed to shine through . . . and since Barry and Ollie were dressed as fancy cowboys for half of the episode, that was an acheivement in itself. Oliver talks to the Monitor, and it doesn't feel that forced. I don't know about the sacrifice, though. Part of me thinks this might be a "One More Day"deal, and Green Arrow and Oliver are thought of as separate people. But it will involve Felicity . . . because of course it would.

Slow start to the crossover, there were a few holes (is Barry-90 gone gone???), and Brainy and J'onn seemed to pop up just to be included (not unlike Diggle getting roped into conducting two weddings last year), but I had fun. And nobody got turned into cats and/or puppets!

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Dammit!  I didn't anyone to say that aloud.  Whelp

Even Nolan's Goddamn Batman got a cafe in France or wherever. I will accept nothing less for Oliver. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by calliope1975
expect and accept are different words

[Velocity23]

Does this imply that the headline from the flash about him missing in 2024 gonna be moved to 2019

[BkWurm1]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Even Nolan's Goddamn Batman got a cafe in France or wherever. I expect nothing less for Oliver. 

This!!!!!!!!

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, did the changes on all the other 'changed' Earths revert back to normal, or just Earth-1 ?  Are all the heroes on Earth-90 dead ?  And where did Earth-90 Barry Allan go to ?

Did Oliver get that blue-tipped arrow from the 'The Monitor' to kill the Book of Destiny ?

Was there ever an explanation of why only Oliver and Barry remembered who they were after the changes ?

[Writing Wrongs]

"The Author rewriting reality using a book" gave me bad Once Upon A Time flashbacks.

[Bruinsfan]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Is Deegen a comic character?  I'm assuming given the weird face he ended up with.  Also, boo that it seems clear there will be more of launching Batwoman on Arrow.  Where are they going to find the time??

Those bandanas looked terrible.  I'm not sure how they made them look so cheesy, lol.  They were supposed to be tough dudes.

He's Dr. Destiny in the comics, whose MO is using dreams to warp reality.

The members of Loverboy used to wear bandanas more menacingly than Barry and Oliver did.

The idea that slowing the earth's rotation down would somehow freeze time makes my brain hurt. And traveling at Mach 7 is supposed to make the Flash and Supergirl burn up? Do the writers not know she has to fly faster than that every time she reaches orbit?

[tennisgurl]

Oh Oliver, what did your stupid, noble, self sacrificing ass do this time? At least he ended up being the real hero of the crossover, got a badass speech, and even got the finishing move over Dee. And I enjoyed all the interacting between Barry and Oliver this week, it had lots more weight to it than the last few episodes, where they seemed to be making them bicker way too much. 

This was clearly the highlight of the crossover, and it had a lot of good stuff in it, but it was a major step down from last season. I know last year was controversial (for several reasons) but I thought it was a great crossover, with great emotional beats, lots of fun character interaction, and some super badass fight scenes where they creatively used the powers and skills of everyone in the Verse. This just felt meh after that, even if this last episode felt sufficiently epic. The other two episodes had some good moments, but were mostly rather bland for a Red Skies crossover. 

But, this is actually a good episode, and was basically what I wanted out of this crossover. Evil Cisco and Evil Jimmy were fun, and we had TONS of Danvers sister bonding, which I can always get behind. This episode even had lots of random character interactions, in the way that I love about these crossovers (Gary! Brainy!) and it had more of that sense of fun that i was looking for. 

Really, despite this crossover being hyped up as the introduction of Gotham and Batwoman to the Arrowverse, this was a real showcase for  Tyler Hoechlins Superman, and the amazing range the guy has in how many ways he plays him. He was great as Clark, he was great as Superman, he was great as Dee AS Superman, he is without a doubt the best Superman we`ve had in years (no offense Brandon! You know I love you!) and I left wanting to see more of him. In his own show, or just showing up on Supergirl more. So, of course, he has to run off to Argo City. Damn it! Lois also seemed cool, as soon as I stop looking at her and thinking of Juliette from Grimm. 

"Worlds will live. Worlds will die. And the universe will never be the same." 

Oh yeah baby! The Crisis is coming, and I am so ready! I like the guy playing The Monitor, and now it looks like most of this was made to set him up, and get ready for the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Damn, I cant believe I am gonna see this happening on my screen! My body is ready!!!

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Was there ever an explanation of why only Oliver and Barry remembered who they were after the changes ?

I don't think so but I imagine its because

Monitor interfered because its Barry and Oliver being tested.

Deegan wanted acknowledgement that he won which is not satisfactory is no one knows he one.

Monitor picked Deegan because it was a test and Deegan is they type to want acknowledgement that he won

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Was there ever an explanation of why only Oliver and Barry remembered who they were after the changes ?

Yes. Deegan didn’t think “big” enough and only managed to switch their faces to be the other.

[tennisgurl]

7 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Even Nolan's Goddamn Batman got a cafe in France or wherever. I will accept nothing less for Oliver. 

I thought of something similar, I was reminded of that scene where Catwoman asks Batman what more he could possibly give these people, and he says something like "one thing more" or something, and my heart breaks! I just want to yell the same thing about Oliver. What more can he possibly give up? How much more does he have to suffer before the universe lets up on him?!

[tennisgurl]

4 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

"The Author rewriting reality using a book" gave me bad Once Upon A Time flashbacks.

Ahhhh I was just about to post that! I was having full on POSD (Post Once Stress Disorder) when they started going on about Authors using books to rewrite reality and villains using it to make themselves heroes. 

If the evil that The Monitor is trying to prepare them for is the further multiverse conquering of "Good Queen" Regina, everything he has said is totally justified! Run everyone, run! SHE is coming to the Arrowverse! She is after the whole multiverse that she hasn't already absorbed into her twisted Maine dictatorship!

[Oreo2234]

Overall I enjoyed Crisis on Earth X a lot more though this had its fun moments and I love this version of Superman. I wonder if Crisis on Infinite Earths is setting up a merger between earth 38 and earth 1. If so will Earth 38 Alex and Jimmy possibly disappear as they have earth 1 versions? Would the earth 1 versions necessarily always survive or would it be more random?

Edited December 12, 2018 by Oreo2234

[scarynikki12]

31 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

"The Author rewriting reality using a book" gave me bad Once Upon A Time flashbacks.

Don’t say it! We don’t want to invoke anything that could bring HER here! 

I’m trying to form something coherent to post about tonight’s episode but all I’m really doing is flailing about next year. I’m so ready and Comic Con is gonna be crazy!

[scarynikki12]

29 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Ahhhh I was just about to post that! I was having full on POSD (Post Once Stress Disorder) when they started going on about Authors using books to rewrite reality and villains using it to make themselves heroes. 

If the evil that The Monitor is trying to prepare them for is the further multiverse conquering of "Good Queen" Regina, everything he has said is totally justified! Run everyone, run! SHE is coming to the Arrowverse! She is after the whole multiverse that she hasn't already absorbed into her twisted Maine dictatorship!

STOP IT! 

This brings me out of my flailing to express my gratitude that there will be no Disney/Warner Bros crossover. Being rivals for almost a century is paying off! 

Back to my flailing. 

[BkWurm1]

40 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. Deegan didn’t think “big” enough and only managed to switch their faces to be the other.

Even that was a mistake since he was trying to become Barry himself.  And then he was like, Flash who?  I'm going to be that Superman guy!!!

[DavidJSnyder]

27 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

 

The idea that slowing the earth's rotation down would somehow freeze time makes my brain hurt. And traveling at Mach 7 is supposed to make the Flash and Supergirl burn up? Do the writers not know she has to fly faster than that every time she reaches orbit?

The science is horrible enough without them even having to add the specific speed. Mach 7 is about a mile and half per second. The globe shows Kara and Barry whipping around the Earth much, much faster than that.

Am I supposed to recognize Lois' hammer from somewhere?

[srpturtle80]

Really loved this one. Superman needs his own show, which would be a million times better than Batwoman’s. I have zero interest in watching her show. 

I’m not sad that the Legends weren’t part of this, only because it means that we got the awesomeness that was last night’s episode instead, but I loved Gary’s appearance here. 

I liked last year’s crossover better, but still enjoyed this one even if it was more low key. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by srpturtle80

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

 

I’m trying to form something coherent to post about tonight’s episode but all I’m really doing is flailing about next year. I’m so ready and Comic Con is gonna be crazy!

I'm flailing but not so sure I'm ready.  😬😬😬