S37.E09: Breadth-First Search

[MisterBluxom]

8 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

BING! Best episode ever!! This season is absolutely batshit crazy in the best possible way! I can’t stop using exclamation  points!

The Davids used their advantages perfectly. Poor dumb Dan finally made a good move and it got nullified. I want to feel sorry for him but it was just so hilariously awesome! And Christian still has his idol. That entire TC was just glorious.

Christian’s “old car” analogy is why I could listen to him talk forever. Maybe I’m just a giant dork but I find him endlessly entertaining and insightful and charming. 

I have to agree. This season has been unbelievable! Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE!!. But wait, I'll be coming back to that word soon.

I am by nature a very dour person. Naturally suspicious.  You know the saying, "When something seems too good to be true, ...."? Well, I've arranged for that to be placed on my headstone.

I'm about to suggest something that I fear may get me into a pack of trouble. But I'm not accusing anyone. I have no evidence. All I have is the feeling this season has been so fantastic that it's almost too good to be true. Could that be possible somehow?

I have absolutely no idea. But this feeling will just not leave me. The worst part of this is that, even if this may be right, almost certainly, no one will never know.

Is it possible that in some bizarre way, somehow, something so strange is going on that we can't even imagine what it is?

Is it possible that one of the production members or someone close enough to know what is going on is actually "helping" someone somehow?

Almost certainly not. But I just keep having this nagging feeling that things have been just so "over the top" perfect for the Davids that maybe .... just maybe .... could something nefarious be going on? I keep hearing this little voice saying, "If something sounds too good to be true .....".

Edited November 22, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Mambo Queen]

17 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

So that brings up a more interesting question, but did Alison truly bail or did she change her mind again and go back to splitting the vote?  Clearly we don't know since she didn't vote, but that has me intrigued.  In addition, Kara and Alec were sitting no where near each other at TC so they couldn't have talked to each other, but I had wondered if they decided to go back to Angelina to simply to show loyalty to the Davids.  But your comment would make more sense.  Maybe they assumed Dan would be safe because of his idol so they didn't feel any guilt about ratting him out.

Idols have been around since Guatemala, and they've been played the current way since Fiji (not counting super idols).  Maybe we'll finally get a season where the idol is an absolute surprise because whoever has it told no one?

 

No, I think what what you said you wondered is what I think they even showed us happening. I for sure saw Kara at Tribal communicating with Alec, and a little with Alison too, to let them know she was going to switch her vote to Angelina. I think they (Kara, Alec, and Allison) were all voting Goliath strong, and I think the David's directed the conversation at tribal to make them seem all "woe is me", and then I think Nick purposefully targeted Allison, so as to show those three that they knew they were still playing them, and now they have to suck on the knowledge that the Davids don't trust them anymore and are now tied, numberwise. And it worked...it made them (the potentially traitorous Goliath 3) switch their vote to Angelina, so now they can argue they were still planning to vote with the Davids, and it made them realize, oooops, we made the wrong call to stay with the Goliath's, now we fucked for real. That being said, I do think either Kara or Alec told them about Dan's idol, either that or Christian did see him find it. 

I'm sad to see

Spoiler

Gabby and Carl feuding in the previews for next week,

because I love all of the Davids and want the whole group to be one big happy family forever.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Mambo Queen

[NYGirl]

So what was Kara's story?  Why did she want Dan out ?  Just because she wanted to move on?  Huh?  She was breaking one of the important rules of Survivor and targeting her tribe member.  Sigh...they'll never get it.  It makes me crazy.

[Dewey Decimate]

1 hour ago, vb68 said:

Mike annoys me now whenever he's on camera.

The more aggrieved Mike looks, the more joyous I am. Did you see his face right before they left tribal? Better than sex.

I'd be super-thrilled to see Mike and Gabby go next, in whichever order, but in the most spectacular, least expected ways possible (last two eps are gonna be a tough act to follow). There's something about her that just doesn't sit right with me. I get the sense that she's a big-fish-little-pond type. Like, she's a cute girl for a nerd-type, so in her circle (or so I'm crazily hypothesizing) she's a top dog, but when surrounded by these Amazon Goliath-types, she feels threatened and falls back into crying and attention/pity-seeking. (And in case that's too sexist an armchair analysis, judging her on physical attractiveness, I'll add: Mike's one fugly-lookin', lobster-boy, no-eyebrow muthafucker. I'm not sexist, just an asshole!)

[jay741982]

Just now, NYGirl said:

So what was Kara's story?  Why did she want Dan out ?  Just because she wanted to move on?  Huh?  She was breaking one of the important rules of Survivor and targeting her tribe member.  Sigh...they'll never get it.  It makes me crazy.

Shes an idiot. Hope Alec betrays her again 

[simplyme]

The Davids thought Dan had an idol because Kara told Alison and Alec he did. Then when Alison, Alec, and Kara were talking with Gabby and Nick, one of them told Gabby and Nick "We think Dan has another idol."

So, yes, it was shown.

[LanceM]

50 minutes ago, mojoween said:

“The six of them are always segregated on the beach over there how weird.”

“Pay no attention to the five of us sitting over here.”

 

Yep. I noticed that as well.  Quite a nice piece of editing there.  Make the Goliaths look like idiots for talking amongst themselves even though the Davids were doing the exact same thing.  Nevermind that about 5 minutes previously in the episode we saw a group of David and Goliath players strategizing together. lol

[simplyme]

3 minutes ago, NYGirl said:

So what was Kara's story?  Why did she want Dan out ?  Just because she wanted to move on?  Huh?  She was breaking one of the important rules of Survivor and targeting her tribe member.  Sigh...they'll never get it.  It makes me crazy.

Because Dan was completely inflexible, a huge target, and a liability? Add to that that he was a threat to keep winning immunity, and if people want to target him and can't, the person they'll go for is his supposed closest ally... Kara.

[jay741982]

7 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Because Dan was completely inflexible, a huge target, and a liability? Add to that that he was a threat to keep winning immunity, and if people want to target him and can't, the person they'll go for is his supposed closest ally... Kara.

So align herself further with a guy who betrayed her before and throw away a guy quickly who would've never turned on her and who she could convince to play his idol on her? Sounds dumb to me. Methinks she keeps trusting Alec cause she likes him more than she liked Dan. Looks get a pass cause she has no reason to throw in with Alec who's a threat to go on a IC Run. Who's to say she won't get targeted being up his ass?

[simplyme]

People seem confused. I read Tribal the same way @cleo and @Mambo Queen did. Alec, Alison, and Kara all intended to vote Christian with the other Goliaths. Then Nick stood up and stole Allison's vote, scaring the bejesus out of her, so she made a speech about how she was sad about not having a vote because it meant she couldn't prove her loyalty. (She's realized the numbers are no longer in her favor with the Goliaths and is now trying to get the Davids to believe she was going to vote the way they had planned and split the vote between Dan and Angelina.) Hence the looks etc between her, Alec, and Kara so that Alec and Kara change their votes to also try to convince the Davids of this.

Voting. Dan plays his idol for himself, but Carl had played the idol nullifier on Dan because a) the Davids wanted him gone, and b) they thought he had an idol based on AlAlKara telling them they thought he did in the "Let's split votes" conversation. Dan goes home with 6 votes against him (the 6 David votes--2 are Nicks), though Jeff only shows 5 of them. Christian has 3 votes. Angelina has 2 from Alec and Kara.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

BING! Best episode ever!! This season is absolutely batshit crazy in the best possible way! I can’t stop using exclamation  points!

 

 

Exclamation points are warranted!!!  Feel free to use them liberally!!!

Davie:  Pop that collar, Bruh!  You are so much fun to watch.

Carl:  I think he was bopping out of Tribal Council.  Normally, I would find his "Bing!" offputting but I'm overlooking the obnoxiousness due to my Goliath distaste (with the   exception of Alec.)

Also, I just knew that there was another advantage hidden near Carl when he was left out of the Reward Challenge.  I'm yelling at the TV, "Look around you...look behind you!" but the cameras never panned to show a missed opportunity so I guess I was wrong there.

Dan:  Poor Dan.  I almost want to feel sorry for him.  Wait a sec---no, I don't.  He was a pouty baby when he sat on the beach for 2 hours.  He really was waaaay too emotional about the plotting and strategizing going on around him.  Go join your fellow Brochacho and stew in Kara's betrayal.

Damn you, Survivor---Making Wednesdays become my fav day of the week!!!!

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, LanceM said:

Yep. I noticed that as well.  Quite a nice piece of editing there.  Make the Goliaths look like idiots for talking amongst themselves even though the Davids were doing the exact same thing.  Nevermind that about 5 minutes previously in the episode we saw a group of David and Goliath players strategizing together. lol

Some Goliaths told the Davids that they were split up amongst themselves and working with the Davids.  They explicitly told the Davids to split their vote between Dan and Angelina - Two Goliaths.

The Davids never did anything of the sort.  So the five of them talking amongst themselves is not suspicious or strange at all.  To me the two situations are apples and oranges.

Separate thoughts: 

If getting out from under a Pagonging was easy, then every minority tribe would do it.  It's not easy.  That's why those tribes, like the Aitu 4, and Foa Foa, are legendary.

Why do I feel like there have been MANY times where the person holding an idol keeps it a secret? I feel like it's kept a secret more than it's shared.  I feel like Davie counts as keeping it a secret.  He waited until he absolutely HAD to share it with his allies, right before TC.

I did not feel like Davie was "lecturing" the tribe after last TC.  I thought he was trying to be nice.  They have to all live together 24/7, after all.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[cooksdelight]

Dan .... Dan ..... Daaaaaaannnn!!!

[lids]

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Everyone is congratulating the Davids on reading the room correctly, but really, just like last week when they “perfectly” played the idol for Christian... it’s because they got information.  Last week Alec tipped them off about the vote for Christian.   This week Kara told about the idol and then either she or Alec told the Davids.  

I think they are getting respect for reading the room correctly because they appear to be adept at sorting out when a Goliath is telling a lie and when they’re telling the truth. They also suss out the Goliath’s motivations. For instance, last week when Alec told Nick they were voting out Christian, Nic had to determine if a)that was a lie to get them to flush an idol b)Alec was testing Nick’s loyalty to see if Nic would tell anyone but the Goliaths were really sticking with the original plan c)Alec was trying to cause panic and chaos among the Davids so they would start turning on each other d)Alec was telling the truth.

Nick responded immediately but didn’t overreact. I mean he didn’t do anything like what Elizabeth did, that was ineffectual.

This week Kara said, “you should probably split the vote in case Dan has an idol.” They knew Kara was Dan’s right hand. If she said Dan probably has an idol, they knew enough to take that seriously.

Quote

I liked Dan.  He seemed like a nice guy.  He wasn’t very good at strategy but he was very loyal to his alliance.  I don’t fully understand why Kara kept saying he was ruining her game.  What did he do except stick by her?  I never heard anyone saying they were going to target her because she was allied with him.

I understand why Kara was willing to vote out Dan. It’s not that she’d rather play with Alec (or Alison); it’s that she’d rather play for herself. Dan kind of co-opted her as soon as he saw her and then he was just hanging all over her. She tried to distance herself in the beginning, but Dan wouldn’t listen. Their relationship was never very equal. She would give Dan good advice: Hide your idol, don’t make us look like a showmance, mingle and talk to people -don’t sit on the beach alone. And Dan would just keep doing what Dan does. He was framing it as he was protecting her, but he’s really just controlling and trying to make sure he gets what he wants and he was never gonna change because “Dan is awesome.” Kara seems very independent and intelligent. She probably realized she would have played a better strategic game without his influence.

[ProfCrash]

Well, that was fun. The Goliaths made it far too obvious that they were not going to work with the Davids. At least there was some attempt made at developing a cross tribe alliance but that just blew away. 

What is it with players named Dan and their negative view on changing alliances? I swear, there is something about people with that name and not wanting to flip the script. 

The Davids are working well together. Sooner or later they are going to have to turn on each other but right now they are playing a solid game as a unit. Hopefully they will be able to use the idol next week to get up in the numbers.

While I appreciate Christian’s comment about the yarn color, Dan did say they same thing when he found the first idol. I think Davie did too. 

I laughed my ass off that Davie had John’s jacket. That was awesome. 

I can understand Dan being upset and even bitter. He played the idol the way he thought he was suppose to only to be hit by something totally new. He had no way to know that could happen which means you cannot prepare for the possibility. Hopefully he is able to chill out after a few days but I can understand if he doens’t. 

I thought Carl was obnoxious at tribal. The time to pull out the note was when the nullifier was played not whle Dan was getting his torch. I am not a Carl fan, havn’t been for a while. Davie’s comments when they got back to camp were kind of off putting and condescending. You won the round, there is no need to lecture the losers about playing a game and not being upset because people are playing the game. Jeff asked about Gabby’s comment at tribal and I thought that Carl and Davie were just as bad, if not worse. 

I like that the numbers are even but I would like to see some movement by someone. The Angelina votes were interesting. Why vote for Angelina? Why not talk to the David’s and see how they are going to vote? The Angelina votes guarentee Dan goes home because there are not enough Christian votes. The Angelina vote was clearly orhestrated before the tribal. Did the Davids tell them Angelina as a test or did the Goliaths hope that someone like Dan wuld go home and they wouldn’t have to vote for him?

[simplyme]

18 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

So align herself further with a guy who betrayed her before and throw away a guy quickly who would've never turned on her and who she could convince to play his idol on her? Sounds dumb to me. Methinks she keeps trusting Alec cause she likes him more than she liked Dan. Looks get a pass cause she has no reason to throw in with Alec who's a threat to go on a IC Run. Who's to say she won't get targeted being up his ass?

Kara trying to get rid herself of the giant cement block of doom named Dan that was shackled to her leg is not the same thing as being up Alex's ass. She may align with him temporarily, but getting rid of Dan gives her a LOT more flexibility in the game. You may as well accuse her of dumping Dan for Allison because she talked to Allison more based on what we saw. Basically, jumping ship with two other Goliaths to take out Dan with the Davids was an appealing prospect that opened up a lot more options in her game.

ETA: Ooo. @lids did a great job a few posts up of explaining what I've felt about Dan but struggled to put into words.

Edited November 22, 2018 by simplyme

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, PaperTree said:

"You may ask yourself;   how do I work this?"

And you may say to your self... 'My GOD what have I done???"

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Exactly and that's what Nick was saying at the tribal council. That the Davids showed they were willing to cross tribal lines to vote out Elizabeth for the first tribal council. And yet, every time they tried to work with the Goliaths to vote out a fellow Goliath, it ended up being "nope, sorry..." Alison and Alec talked all this big game but at this point, I can see the Davids saying "deuces" to them and if they get the upper hand in the numbers, very much picking them off one by one.

Because they had chances to work with them and blew it over and over. So why should they trust them at this point.

Exactly put here, they kept pretending like they were throwing them a bone and then they do that fake throw thing and the Davids are looking around but... no bone. Fine, we'll find our own.

1 hour ago, green said:

I did not feel sorry for Dan going in the least.  He was right with Mike in the Goliath Strong crap and never tried to make any inroads with the Davids post-merge despite having built up a minor relationship with Christian right before the merge.  Kara was right.  Walk around ... engage ... meet with all sorts of people.  He didn't and he deserved to go.  Good riddance.

He didn't even engage with his OWN people either. Dude that is supposedly YOUR team yet you don't go over and join when everyone BUT you are sitting on the raft? That's how people get targeted to be voted out. Zero social game, and couldn't rely on his idols. Bad combo.

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

Maybe we'll finally get a season where the idol is an absolute surprise because whoever has it told no one?

I know it’s obnoxious but I have to “actually” you on this, only because I love reminding everyone of Kelly Wentworth telling absolutely nobody about her idol and then blindsiding Andrew Savage’s smug ass out of the game. Good times!

[enchantingmonkey]

It's curious that they captioned Dan asking Kara if he should play his idol but not what Alison said to Alec.  That seems to be the key in figuring out if Alison, Kara and Alec were already planning to vote for Angelina, and Alison was upset because she wanted to demonstrate her trust to the Davids, or if Alec and Kara switched their votes after Nick stole Alison's vote.  And it seems like Alec must have motioned or mouthed something to Kara, because she only nodded her head.  Why didn't we see that, editing monkeys? 

Or, maybe I'm just trying to make something out of nothing.  

[Mambo Queen]

54 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Yep. I noticed that as well.  Quite a nice piece of editing there.  Make the Goliaths look like idiots for talking amongst themselves even though the Davids were doing the exact same thing.  Nevermind that about 5 minutes previously in the episode we saw a group of David and Goliath players strategizing together. lol

I think the reason this was focused on and was concerning to the David's was because of what it showed about the potentially-flipping Goliaths...that they were once again saying the right things to the Davids, but acting completely differently. Everyone was already assuming the Davids were all voting together,  but three of the Goliaths were now trying to convince the Davids they were really, truly gonna flip this time guys, promise...and then acting all Goliath strong again moments later. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Mambo Queen

[Wandering Snark]

26 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I am not a Carl fan, havn’t been for a while. Davie’s comments when they got back to camp were kind of off putting and condescending. You won the round, there is no need to lecture the losers about playing a game and not being upset because people are playing the game.

I don't like either Carl or Davie personally, but I'm glad they found advantages that have worked for the Davids. I especially dislike Carl actually.

[LadyChatts]

13 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I know it’s obnoxious but I have to “actually” you on this, only because I love reminding everyone of Kelly Wentworth telling absolutely nobody about her idol and then blindsiding Andrew Savage’s smug ass out of the game. Good times!

It's funny because I was just thinking of this idol play last week, but forgot no one knew about it!  Savage and his gang made the same mistake Goliath did last week, by putting all the votes on Wentworth and not splitting the vote.  And IIRC, Joe was the one who told Wentworth about the plan to vote her off, just like Alec told Nick about the plan to vote off Christian.  So maybe there's something else that can be learned here lol

[willco]

That kind of Tribal does make for a great episode, but I didn't care for the gloating after the verdict. Even thought I get it, and I don't really blame them ( and maybe I would do that in the moment, too, if I were there and pulled that off). But it always comes back to bite you in the ass, it seems, on Survivor. Things could easily swing back and the Davids could all be gone real quick. That said, I don't think there is anyone that I really dislike at this point, so however the game plays out, it's cool with me. And I usually have someone I really want to last til the end, but I don't think I have a favorite, either. Unless something weird happens between now & the end, I will probably be satisfied with whoever wins.

 

How many weeks do we have left ? 3 or 4 ?

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Back when Dan found one of his idols, you could see Christian watching in the background.   The show never showed Christian talking about it, but I know that he saw Dan find it.

Do you mean Christian saw when Dan found the clue for the second idol? Because Dan's second idol was at an Immunity Challenge where he had to find a way to grab it with no one noticing. And Christian definitely couldn't have seen him because Christian was participating and winning the challenge for his tribe at that point. 

Regarding the Davids and their gloating, while it's absolutely petty, I get it. I think for the Davids, on some level, they probably feel a little insulted by the Goliaths. I think sometimes, probably because of the physical and mental toll this game takes on the players, they buy into these ridiculous themes a little too much. 

In any case, I think the Davids may feel like the Goliaths are in a sense looking down on them. Like they execute this brilliant play last tribal, proving that they're not just some losers waiting to be picked off and still no Goliath wants to take a chance to side with them, instead still feeling like "well we have the numbers, so we're going with that". So I think the reaction over outsmarting them again is a feeling of vindication and a little, "in your face". 

FYI, I don't think the Goliaths see themselves as better than the Davids but more so that they, at this point, wanted to play a safe, "stick with the numbers" game. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Mambo Queen]

43 minutes ago, simplyme said:

People seem confused. I read Tribal the same way @cleo and @Mambo Queen did. Alec, Alison, and Kara all intended to vote Christian with the other Goliaths. Then Nick stood up and stole Allison's vote, scaring the bejesus out of her, so she made a speech about how she was sad about not having a vote because it meant she couldn't prove her loyalty. (She's realized the numbers are no longer in her favor with the Goliaths and is now trying to get the Davids to believe she was going to vote the way they had planned and split the vote between Dan and Angelina.) Hence the looks etc between her, Alec, and Kara so that Alec and Kara change their votes to also try to convince the Davids of this.

Voting. Dan plays his idol for himself, but Carl had played the idol nullifier on Dan because a) the Davids wanted him gone, and b) they thought he had an idol based on AlAlKara telling them they thought he did in the "Let's split votes" conversation. Dan goes home with 6 votes against him (the 6 David votes--2 are Nicks), though Jeff only shows 5 of them. Christian has 3 votes. Angelina has 2 from Alec and Kara.

Yes, this...and that is why I thought it was quite a brilliant move to steal Allison's vote, not someone whom they truly had no loyalty to like Dan...it was a message to the flippin-three that they were on to their two-faced ways, and then forced Alec and Kara's hand into voting against Goliaths. It's also why they made sure to show Kara straight up lying to Dan about whether or not he should play his idol....at that point Kara realized she had to scramble on back to the Davids, and proceeded to betray Dan to his face. It made the Davids move more delicious, fo sho. 

[lids]

9 minutes ago, Mambo Queen said:

Yes, this...and that is why I thought it was quite a brilliant move to steal Allison's vote, not someone whom they truly had no loyalty to like Dan...it was a message to the flippin-three that they were on to their two-faced ways, and then forced Alec and Kara's hand into voting against Goliaths. It's also why they made sure to show Kara straight up lying to Dan about whether or not he should play his idol....at that point Kara realized she had to scramble on back to the Davids, and proceeded to betray Dan to his face. It made the Davids move more delicious, fo sho. 

There’s also the chance that Kara whispered to Dan that he should play the idol on himself since he was thinking about playing it for Alison until he whispered with Kara. Since she knew (or thought she knew) that the Davids were splitting the vote between Dan and Angelina, Dan playing the idol on himself would have sent Angelina home. This may make Angelina very upset in the next episode. I’m not really sure about all the whispering and I like that about these episodes.

Edited November 22, 2018 by lids

[Mambo Queen]

50 minutes ago, lids said:

I think they are getting respect for reading the room correctly because they appear to be adept at sorting out when a Goliath is telling a lie and when they’re telling the truth. They also suss out the Goliath’s motivations. For instance, last week when Alec told Nick they were voting out Christian, Nic had to determine if a)that was a lie to get them to flush an idol b)Alec was testing Nick’s loyalty to see if Nic would tell anyone but the Goliaths were really sticking with the original plan c)Alec was trying to cause panic and chaos among the Davids so they would start turning on each other d)Alec was telling the truth.

Nick responded immediately but didn’t overreact. I mean he didn’t do anything like what Elizabeth did, that was ineffectual.

This week Kara said, “you should probably split the vote in case Dan has an idol.” They knew Kara was Dan’s right hand. If she said Dan probably has an idol, they knew enough to take that seriously.

I understand why Kara was willing to vote out Dan. It’s not that she’d rather play with Alec (or Alison); it’s that she’d rather play for herself. Dan kind of co-opted her as soon as he saw her and then he was just hanging all over her. She tried to distance herself in the beginning, but Dan wouldn’t listen. Their relationship was never very equal. She would give Dan good advice: Hide your idol, don’t make us look like a showmance, mingle and talk to people -don’t sit on the beach alone. And Dan would just keep doing what Dan does. He was framing it as he was protecting her, but he’s really just controlling and trying to make sure he gets what he wants and he was never gonna change because “Dan is awesome.” Kara seems very independent and intelligent. She probably realized she would have played a better strategic game without his influence.

I very much agree with your Kara analysis and would also add that she did NOT seem to want to team up and be Goliath Strong again, but felt like she was forced into it because of Alec and Allison's double-flip back into the Goliath fold. Don't sleep on Kara...she's not dumb, and turning on  Dan wasn't a mistake. I think she more than any of the other Goliath's correctly read the David-threat level and realized her best move was not to try and beat them but to join them.

[MisterBluxom]

During the RC, I kept hearing some lady's voice in the background. I couldn't hear exactly what she was saying but it kind of sounded like Angelina telling the people who were trying to solve the puzzle what to do. Did anyone hear who was speaking and what she was saying? If it was indeed Angelina giving instructions from the "back seat" so to speak, I would have expected any of the puzzle solvers to have yelled at her to be quiet.

 

ETA: @LIDS I thought you did a great job understanding Kara and I really enjoyed reading your post.

Edited November 22, 2018 by MissBluxom

[princelina]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Aaaaand the Davids keep outsmarting the Goliaths at every turn. They played that perfectly! Nick steals the vote, scares Dan into playing his Idol, then Carl nullifies said Idol. 

It was fun and I'm glad to see that the Idol Nullifier was used well.  OTOH, I kind of wish they'd saved it, let Dan blow his idol, and then voted as a group for someone unexpected (like Mike!)

[Rachel RSL]

Whoops, nope. Nothing to see here.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Rachel RSL

[Mark2]

17 minutes ago, princelina said:

It was fun and I'm glad to see that the Idol Nullifier was used well.  OTOH, I kind of wish they'd saved it, let Dan blow his idol, and then voted as a group for someone unexpected (like Mike!)

I had the same thoughts - just not Mike :)  But I can't blame them for using it especially given the success in finding Dan's idol from last tribal.

I'm just a little disappointed they didn't have shots that explained last week's vote.  That and a call interrupted the middle of TC.  But, I still caught enough that it seemed the Goliaths went from 60 to 0 on the smug-o-meter with Nick's play.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Mark2

[enchantingmonkey]

37 minutes ago, Mambo Queen said:

and then forced Alec and Kara's hand into voting against Goliaths. 

Why do you feel like Alec and Kara were forced to vote against the Goliaths?  If they'd stayed loyal to the Goliaths it's still going to be a 5/5 split after this tribal.  The Davids don't have an advantage in numbers, yet.  

I'm not saying that Alec and Kara didn't decide to vote for Angelina after Nick stole Alison's vote, it's just that we don't know with certainty that they didn't remain committed to the plan that they had earlier presented to the Davids.  

[TVFan1]

That was another beautiful episode. The Davids played TC brilliantly. Nick steals Alison's vote and Carl plays the Idol Nullifier. Dan goes home! I loved when Carl said "BING" flashing that he was the one that had the Nullifier. I don't even mind the Davids showing off and acting cocky. 

The numbers are even and I'm still rooting for the Davids.

[MisterBluxom]

24 minutes ago, Jextella said:

<snip>I think Carl is quietly smart. <snip>

 

Overall, I liked your post. But I can't find anything smart about Carl publicly gloating like that. No matter what the circumstances, how can it be smart to give the enemy info they would not otherwise get? I think Carl's "BING" demonstrates he may have a serious problem trying to win this game.

Edited November 22, 2018 by MissBluxom

[OutOfTheQuestion]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

How did Carl know about Dan's second idol?  I remember KARA told Alec and Alison, but then.... what?  The editors didn't want to show me that part?!

I don't think the Davids needed to actually KNOW Dan had another idol.  They were clearly intent on getting Dan out no matter what, and played the nullifier on him to ensure that he was definitely going home.  This way...

a) Dan plays the idol, it's blocked, and he gets eliminated (which is what happened)

b) another Goliath with the HII panics over Nick's vote-steal, plays their HII to protect themselves and it doesn't matter since Dan was the target.  Or, other Goliath with the HII plays it on Dan, and it doesn't count because of the nullifier.

Real big winner here is Christian, who still has his own idol to protect himself, while his tribemates used all their advantages to protect him

Edited November 22, 2018 by OutOfTheQuestion

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Bwahahahaha..... LOVE IT. 

[Etta Place]

I think it was smartest to use the nullifier now and save the idol, even if you’re not Christian because the times when you can be reasonably sure a specific person is going to play an idol so you can use the nullifier are going to be fewer and farther between than times when it would make sense to play an idol. 

And I don’t have any problem at all with Carl wanting to visibly take credit for the use of the nullifier. It may put him on the radar in a way he wouldn’t have been before, but since the Davids knew it already and the Goliaths’ numbers are dwindling, it doesn’t matter much, I don’t think. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Etta Place
Damn you autocorrect

[Nashville]

BTW - did anybody else notice Mike cheating during the RC?  

At the cargo net - Mike left the mat and started toward the combo lock too early (Davie was still under the cargo netting), and was working on the bag knots as he did so.  When Jeff called Mike back, Mike returned to the mat and waited until Davie got there - but while Mike waited, he continued working on the bag knots before Davie arrived on the mat:

 

Play it sneaky as much as you want, that’s ok - but I can’t abide a cheater.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm attracted to Alec now.  I think it's his tan and his golden curls, which I used to mock.

I appreciated the zoomed in shots of his abs and v-lines when he was navigating his balls down his giant curved arrow.

 

....what?

[Mark2]

19 minutes ago, Etta Place said:

...I don’t have any problem at all with Carl wanting to visibly take credit for the use of the nullifier. It may put him on the radar in a way he wouldn’t have been before, but since the Davids knew it already and the Goliaths’ numbers are dwindling, it doesn’t matter much, I don’t think. 

I don't think it was wise, but I get it.  Needlessly antagonizing anyone is rarely good policy IMO, but I'd be a little annoyed with the [former] Goliaths' hubris in that Tribal and might just let out a bit of celebration at the end too.

14 minutes ago, Nashville said:

BTW - did anybody else notice Mike cheating during the RC?  

At the cargo net - Mike left the mat and started toward the combo lock too early (Davie was still under the cargo netting), and was working on the bag knots as he did so.  When Jeff called Mike back, Mike returned to the mat and waited until Davie got there - but while Mike waited, he continued working on the bag knots before Davie arrived on the mat:

 

Play it sneaky as much as you want, that’s ok - but I can’t abide a cheater.

In all fairness (granted, I don't have a replay of the verbal rules to confirm), does Jeff specifically bar working on the knots while on the mat?

[Mambo Queen]

1 hour ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Why do you feel like Alec and Kara were forced to vote against the Goliaths?  If they'd stayed loyal to the Goliaths it's still going to be a 5/5 split after this tribal.  The Davids don't have an advantage in numbers, yet.  

I'm not saying that Alec and Kara didn't decide to vote for Angelina after Nick stole Alison's vote, it's just that we don't know with certainty that they didn't remain committed to the plan that they had earlier presented to the Davids.  

Not so much forced as let them know that if they didn't vote against Goliaths  yet again, they would for sure never be trusted by the Davids, who at this point have at least equal power to the Goliaths, and seem to consistently be able to pull a winning move out of their hat so betting against them in a tie scenario might be especially risky. 

[MisterBluxom]

38 minutes ago, Nashville said:

BTW - did anybody else notice Mike cheating during the RC?  

At the cargo net - Mike left the mat and started toward the combo lock too early (Davie was still under the cargo netting), and was working on the bag knots as he did so.  When Jeff called Mike back, Mike returned to the mat and waited until Davie got there - but while Mike waited, he continued working on the bag knots before Davie arrived on the mat:

Play it sneaky as much as you want, that’s ok - but I can’t abide a cheater.

IIRC, didn't Jeff tell one of the contestants who had gotten ahead they had to stop and wait?  I don't remember if it was Mike or someone else.

Edited November 22, 2018 by MissBluxom

[GaT]

Another epic TC. We've been getting some pretty good TCs this season, I like it!

[KimberStormer]

Someone playing an advantage correctly?  In my Survivor?  Someone playing two advantages correctly??  Hang on, what show am I watching, DVR must be acting up again.

Another fantastic episode and the thing that makes it so fantastic is how so many people are playing and thinking, the moves and counter-moves.  Not just the advantages but the thinking and talking and the whole thing.  I think Allison really out-played herself and in doing so is taking the whole Goliath ship down with her, which is fascinating because she's just one quiet vote, not some big out-there character who's, like, Someone To Deal With, but the sort of person who would be a boring mid-merge bootee who we would only get to know at Ponderosa.  You know what I mean?  Just that mid-level drone in the majority alliance.  But instead she's like, destroyer of worlds over here.  I think that what the Davids were saying was true: they were all ready to turn on each other at the merge, fractured and cracked, ready to play their individual games.  But the Goliaths sticking together has forced them into far greater cohesion.  It's like how Yul and Ozzy had no use for each other until the mutiny, and then the Aitus were as tight a foursome as you will ever see.

Now you might say well that's all the Goliaths, not just Allison.  And it's Mike if anything, because he changed it up last episode.  And that's true, but as we saw, there was ample opportunity to ignore Mike this episode, and they were all ready to do it, before Allison got cold feet.  Could Alec flip by himself?  Sure.  Could Kara?  Sure.  But that's a recipe for disaster.  Flipping on your own, Cochran-style, does indeed put you on the bottom of the opposite alliance, just as Dan said (and most of this board says, whenever they don't like the flipper.)  Alec's whole plan was to make a new alliance, instead of just glomming on to an existing one, so that there would be no Cochran situation.  Which is very smart.  Mike wrecked it last time, but hey, Kara was on board this time, so Alec was going to try it again, but then Allison wrecked it.  Neither Alec nor Kara are stupid enough to flip on their own, so they gave up, until (and this is great) they saw that whatever happened the Goliath Strong thing wasn't happening so they put the vote on Angelina, so whether or not Dan played his idol at least they had a shot of salvaging the cross-tribe alliance.  So now the Goliath tribe is a total shambles with no credibility on any side because of Allison.

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

How did Carl know about Dan's second idol?  I remember KARA told Alec and Alison, but then.... what?  The editors didn't want to show me that part?!

Kara brought it up as a "just in case he has an idol" to the Davids when they were going over the Dan/Angelina split-vote plan, and if Kara, who is close to Dan, thinks that's a possiblity, it's clearly a possibility.  Also with the vote-nullifier there is absolutely no way anything can go wrong, so it's good to play it.  No secret scenes or conspiracy theories needed for this.

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Hate Carl’s smugness and kiss off display.  He made it personal and was rubbing it in.  Why do that?  It smacked of poor sportsmanship. 

Carl has the FTC to think about.  Possibly we forget because he's maybe not getting that much of a winner's edit, but Carl wants the entire jury to know he's the one who nullified Dan out of the game. 

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Like I'm sorry, I rolled my eyes so hard when she stated her big moment of clarity where she realized that what her big move should be was to step back, stand tall and be Goliath Strong. And she said it with such conviction and pride. Uh-huh...sure. 

 

3 hours ago, NYGirl said:

So what was Kara's story?  Why did she want Dan out ?  Just because she wanted to move on?  Huh?  She was breaking one of the important rules of Survivor and targeting her tribe member.  Sigh...they'll never get it.  It makes me crazy.

I just think it's so funny how you're damned if you do and damned if you don't around here.  Not to call out you guys specifically, but it's just really hard to know what to do.  Was Allison dumb to stay with the Goliaths, was Kara dumb to try to blindside Dan?  It's not obvious what's the right move, to flip or to stay Naviti Strong, etc.  We scream and yell about it no matter what they do...

 

4 hours ago, green said:

I think some of this was (shock, right, hah) out of sequence since Alec and Kara did vote for Angelina which was the idea of splitting the votes in that first meeting with the Davids.  And the Davids seemed to be secure enough they were NOT going to vote for Christian since Christian didn't play his idol NOT fearing a tie vote/rock draw scenario.  This component is the most crucial post-tribal now.

No matter what happened, with the vote steal and the idol nullifier there was literally no chance of Christian going home this episode.  He would have wasted his idol had he used it.  There's no need for any out-of-order anything.

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

So was Nick stealing Alison's vote personal, random, or strategic to make it look like they were voting for her?

I'm starting to second guess throwing support behind Alison after tonight. I don't get why the Goliaths give up so easy.  Did Kara even try to fight to blindside Dan after Alison and Alec told her they changed their mind?

I think Kara is aware her political capital is very limited.  Basically, she was seen as Dan's girl, which means she was seen as weak/a pawn.  She was moving to get power, not to throw her own weight around.  We've seen many times (like just this season, with Natalia) that when a young woman who is not firmly in control of her alliance tries to act like she is, she gets called bossy and horrible and everybody hates her both on the island and on TV.  I don't think fighting would do anything but put the target on her own back, and we'd have Kikaha showing up to say she played too hard and voted herself out.

I'm also interested in why Allison, and the speculation that it's sending a message is intriguing, but I'm hoping we get to hear Nick explain his motivation next episode.

[Sentient Meat]

I'm not thrilled with the multitude of production twists... as they are starting to reach Canadian Big Brother or Australian Survivor levels of absurdity... but since they exist, I'm glad at least they were utilized properly, unlike the American Big Brother powers which were almost universally botched this season.

That was unfair to Dan, and I don't even like Dan... but I suppose the first time they do something new to freshen the game... this is the price the players must pay.

Agree that the Davids aren't any more likeable than the Goliaths... Gabby is a cry baby... Christian can be smug... Carl isn't the most lovable... and the lawyer guy was kind of a snake early on in the game... but I think why people are rooting for them is because no one wanted to see a boring pagonging... and that's what we were headed for before this TC.

There are enough loose cannons to propel the final portion of the season.

Classic Survivor the last two weeks.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Sentient Meat

[LadyChatts]

4 hours ago, Mambo Queen said:

No, I think what what you said you wondered is what I think they even showed us happening. I for sure saw Kara at Tribal communicating with Alec, and a little with Alison too, to let them know she was going to switch her vote to Angelina.

I'm sad to see

  Reveal hidden contents

Gabby and Carl feuding in the previews for next week,

 

 

I went back and watched, and you are right, they were talking (or giving each other head nods).  I had missed that the first time (way too much going on).  So here again, they wanted Dan gone but were they hoping he'd play his idol, and this is how they'd get rid of Angelina?  Or Angelina was just the second choice if he did play his idol.  I mean Dan really would have been an idiot to not play his idol after the vote steal.  This vote left me more curious where everyone's head was at, and this is why we need a longer reunion show this season.  Cut the finale down to 1 hour and give us a 2 hour reunion because I have way too many questions to get answered!

I had to go back and watch the Davids on the beach right before TC because I loved that moment almost as much as TC.  Nick: "I have a secret advantage."  Carl: "I have a secret advantage".  Christian: "I have an idol."  You could almost feel the excitement getting bigger and bigger.  

Edited November 22, 2018 by LadyChatts

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Mark2 said:

I had the same thoughts - just not Mike :)  But I can't blame them for using it especially given the success in finding Dan's idol from last tribal.

Who were you thinking?

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Mark2 said:

In all fairness (granted, I don't have a replay of the verbal rules to confirm), does Jeff specifically bar working on the knots while on the mat?

Yes.  The competition had four stages:

1. The over-and-under obstacle.  Probst specifically states no further team advancement until all team members were on the disc mat under the numbers bag.
2. Numbers bag retrieval (by boosting a team member) followed by the cargo net crawl.  All team members on the mat before advancing.
3. Opening the numbers bag and using the contents to open the combo lock to free the key to unlock the puzzle piece bags.  Advancement operationally restrained until the key is free.
4. Releasing the puzzle piece bags and working the snake puzzle.

Mike was clearly aware of the rules because when he was initially on the stage 2 ending mat, he didn’t touch the bag; it wasn’t until Mike made his false start off the mat that he started working the knots on the bag.  And Mike immediately returned to the mat when Jeff called him back - but he should’ve stopped working on the knots as well, and he didn’t.  The resulting advantage is clear if you compare Mike’s second (righteous) departure from the mat with Christian’s departure; Christian is just starting to work on his bag’s knots as he runs for the combo lock, but Mike’s knots are undone and his bag open before he’s halfway to his lock.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Nashville
Expansion

[LordBowen]

Another enjoyable episode.  Goliath losing two of its strongest players in a row has done a good job blurring tribal lines for the remaining Goliaths at this point. It will be interesting to see how the dynamics play out.

It was very smart of the Davids to go looking for the HII the way they did. If the remaining Goliaths remain ignorant in that regard, the Davids should be able to gain a second HII advantage. 

I loved Carl's "Bing" at TC.  Considering the circumstances, I didn't see it as gloating...more like a TD celebration. A well executed play deserves a bit of that.  

[MisterBluxom]

@KimberStormer  Last week many people here pointed out that Mike almost orchestrated his own downfall because he just out-thought himself. This week it was Alison who said, words to the effect "My mind is going a million miles an hour". As soon as she said that, I figured we'd be seeing some ramifications of that and we surely did.

Edited November 22, 2018 by MissBluxom