S03.E09: The Beginning Is the End Is the Beginning

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Pallas said:

I think Nicky was eventually discharged with a Section 8, and never went home: that's how he didn't complete the mission. His family never saw him again. He's been living in Pennsylvania all along, but only Jack knew where. If even he did. I'm sure he knew Nicky was alive though. He took Randall to the Vietnam memorial on their way back from the visit to Howard -- the night that Kevin was injured -- and I remember noting that we didn't see them trace a name with their fingers. (Of course the name's not there to be traced.) 

That's the only thing that makes much sense to me.  He spoke of Nicky being dead because he figuratively was.  I would have to think his parents also knew he did not die there, but that he was nevertheless lost to them.  I think it's a bit of an odd story detour, aside from the not really dead gotcha, because it takes the focus off of Jack and onto an ancillary character.  It's kind of cheap to me, cheapens the war experience that we were being shown.  Can't explain it, just doesn't sit right.

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Didn't Kate's doctor say she didn't want Kate to drive for hours on end because that entails too much sitting? So how is sitting for hours in a classroom/library much different? If anything, that's even more sitting. I did love how quickly Madison jumped into connector mode and lined up the school interview for Kate. That's exactly how my friends and I are when one of us is needs anything.

My thoughts exactly.  She'll be sitting a lot more in class than in driving to a few Adele-o-gram jobs.  However, if she does go back to school, it will be the most sensible thing she's done in awhile, even if she was never motivated to do it herself all these years and Toby had to nudge her. 

[debraran]

DSterling said in an interview they would have trouble but no divorce. I kept waiting for it .  Nicky alive will only be pallatable to me if his mom knew. How did he work or live? Don’t like this plot at all but I’m sure another twist for the sake of a twist will come . They are losing to me what made them great. 

Didn’t Jack show Randall the memorial as a detour in fact because of his brother? Why wouldn’t you show his name if you took the trip?

i thought it was odd there wasn’t a burial or mention of it but then Kyke was forgotten too. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awwww, I love how positive Madison was about finding another job for Kate. And seriously, if Kate's only source of income is singing the occasional Adelegram, she could use another job anyway. At the beginning of her interview, I was wondering how Kate was at all qualified to be a teacher so I was glad that her qualifications (or lack thereof) were the first thing that the principal brought up. Getting a teaching credential in the state of California requires an undergrad degree. I really want to know how Kate is eight credits short of her degree and she can get those eight credits at Encino Community College. Community college classes are usually lower division aka requirements for upper division courses, so I am unclear as to how she was able to take all the classes she needs for a BA except eight lower division intro level classes.

I had to laugh when Kate said that she couldn't not work because she can't just sit around waiting for the baby. Wasn't her whole job when she was Kevin's assistant to sit around waiting for him to give her something to do?

I'm also confused as to why it's not good for Kate to sit in a car to drive to a gig that's more than an hour away but it's okay for her to sit in a classroom for a few hours a day. She can always pull over and take a quick walk on her way to the gig. Sure, that means leaving earlier but apparently she has nothing else to do since she said her gigs aren't that frequent.

I loved Beth's pep talk for Randall. It's so sweet to see how supportive she is of him. Later when she reminded him that he said he would quit if AT ANY POINT she was no longer on board and he tried to weasel out of it by saying, "I made promises to a community," I was hoping she would point out that he made a promise TO HER. I don't know how he could look her in the eye and say that their family was his priority but that he was still going ahead with the campaign. SUCK IT, RANDALL.

Randall can also suck it for making all those promises to get things fixed. He sounded like every kid running for eight grade class president who promises Kool-Aid coming out of the drinking fountains. It's easy to promise things until you actually try to DO those things. I'm not saying the incumbent is a saint, but some of the complaints that Randall had from the community members are not things that are within the purview of a city councilman to just go do. There are official channels you have to go through to have a pothole fixed, for example. A city councilman is not a dictator who can snap his fingers and order a work crew to do his bidding. I'm not making excuses for the other guy though. I'm just saying that Randall thinks it's a lot easier to get things done because he hasn't dealt with the bureaucracy and red tape yet.

I had to laugh at the shot of Beth at the ballet company. Yes, it's totally normal to have a catwalk all the way around the perimeter of the studio where you have ballet barres.

Ugh, Kate and Rebecca suck. Kate shouldn't have told Rebecca about Tess's sexuality because it's not her story to tell. And Rebecca should have denied it when Tess asked her if Kate told her. When people find out that you shared their secrets, THEY STOP TELLING YOU THEIR SECRETS. And as Tess pointed out, if she wanted to discuss her sexuality with Rebecca she would have told Rebecca about it herself. Just because she's a kid doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to have her privacy respected. She specifically asked Kate not to tell Randall and Beth. She shouldn't have to list every person in her family to make sure that she doesn't tell anyone else!

9 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

And Beth placing a pillow and neatly folded sheets beside the couch?  Seriously?  Isn't that just a little too 50's for Beth?  I'd rather she took that entire bottle of wine (and another) into their room and locked the door.  She was that mad.

Ha, I'm picturing Randall knocking on the bedroom door and drunk Beth yelling, "Get your own damn sheets for the couch!"

9 hours ago, shouldbedancing said:

High Nicky was coherent enough to enough to fake his own death and escape the war and live secretly for a million years? Randall and Beth are gonna get divorced? Nooooooooo way! I yelled at the end of this show. I'm not here for this.

And somehow get back to the United States!

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, deaja said:

But Randall will shovel snow.

He can do that without being councilman.  I loved it every time the other guy threw it in his face that he didn't live there.  

[Pallas]

45 minutes ago, Haleth said:

If he did fake his death though, why would he be living under his own name in PA? 

That's one reason I think Nicky didn't fake his death. The other reason is that this would -- on a matter of life and death, and a national wound -- mark out the Pearsons as the exception to us all. 

Nicky simply hid out from his family, once back in the States. It's also possible that he spent some time in military prison first. Jack's father doesn't refer to Nicky as dead, only sneers at Jack for not having taken care of him. This episode was about secrets and the reasons for keeping them. Jack kept Nicky's survival a secret from his wife, who later kept William's identity a secret from her husband and son, and then much later advised her granddaughter about the cost of keeping secrets from her parents. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, Mystery said:

I get that Randall said that he'd quit if Beth asked. But *she* had just said that the family wouldn't hold him back. They were both going back on their word. 

What she actually said was, "This family is not gonna be the thing that keeps you from succeeding [at the debate] tomorrow."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't see why Kate would have to have a college degree to be a chorus director or whatever they they call the position she was going for in order to work as some sort of music director.

Being a high school choir/music teacher in the state of California requires a teaching credential, and a teaching credential requires a BA.

[PRgal]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I edited your post but I agree with the first point. 

If the Nicky is Nicky Jr could he be getting a survivor benefit (as the disabled adult child of a veteran)?

 

They can do cell free dna at 9 weeks I believe. @doodlebug am I right?

And from the dna you’d know the SEX of the baby (babies don’t have genders!). 

Yes.  Panorama can detect the sex at 9 weeks and Harmony at 10 (as well as other issues like Down's).  I'm not sure about other companies.  Kate and Toby would have opted for NIPT (non-invasive prenatal testing) to see if an amnio is even needed due to Kate's age.  

Edited November 28, 2018 by PRgal

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I had to laugh when Kate said that she couldn't not work because she can't just sit around waiting for the baby. Wasn't her whole job when she was Kevin's assistant to sit around waiting for him to give her something to do?

It seemed like he was pretty demanding to work for though. Like when she was working for him, i remember him calling her with 1000 questions about moving. 

[Laurie4H]

Would Kate have even gotten an interview to teach at a school without a degree?  Wouldn’t they check her resume first?  I don’t have a degree and I wouldn’t even think to apply for a teaching position.  

[Driad]

Did they explain why, when Jack was in the army, he did not have a military haircut?

If Nicky is alive, I hope he is one of the people who was subjected to an "our family is so special" tirade in the past from a Pearson who didn't know he was a relative.

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

"Gender" reveals are weird to me, but to each their own. It was even odder to me that it was just Kate and Toby going through the whole ritual of ordering the cake and all. They are so dramatic; they could have just asked the doctor.

I think sex reveal parties are bizarre too (they're not a thing among people I know), and I think it was REALLY weird that they didn't just ask the doctor rather than going through all that rigmarole with the cake.

There were a few small moments in this episode that I really loved. There was a point where Beth did a little jump over the wood floor to the runner so she wouldn't make noise walking past Deja's room. There was a point where Deja was listening to Randall's speech where you could see something click in her (I think the actress who plays Deja is great). That moment when Deja left and Tess called out for her parents and Beth was like "LORD, what now?"

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had to laugh when Kate said that she couldn't not work because she can't just sit around waiting for the baby. Wasn't her whole job when she was Kevin's assistant to sit around waiting for him to give her something to do?

Yeah, I don't think of Kate as a hard worker. A strong work ethic hasn't been a part of her character development.

I teared up when Tess talked to her parents. I swear I want Beth and Randall to be my parents.

I don't even know what to think about Nicky being alive. He looks like he's struggling; maybe he's an addict? He, like many, was using over there. (I think I mentioned that I had a friend in high school whose father came back from Vietnam strung out.) 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I hate all of the political crap going on with Randall, I wish there wasn't a political element to this show.  That said, I believe Beth is completely wrong on this.  She isn't working, she is searching for a job.  She should be able to pick up any slack for the last few weeks until the election is over.  What if all of this drama occurred after Randall got elected?   Would Beth ask him to quit?

Randall never should have told Beth that he would quit if things got too tough at home.  Beth shouldn't have acted like an unreasonable jerk, and just allowed him to see it through instead of taking a cheap shot at Randall by throwing it in his face.

BTW, do Beth and Randall have an infinite supply of money in savings?  They are paying for a campaign, neither of them has a job other than running a low income housing apartment building, which they have been renovating which costs  $$$.  Plus that house they live in isn't cheap and three kids.

I don't think Beth was being unreasonable. If this was the only instance of Randall choosing others over his own family, then fine. But I think there's a bigger part in play, something that they didn't address but something that they could. It's more about the fact that Randall has done this before, with William, with quitting his job unexpectedly, and then with wanting to adopt pretty much right after. It was something that Beth got on board with, because she wanted to do something for her husband. She worked part time for several years when Tess was born right up until Randall quit his job. She went back to work but supported his dreams. 

For Beth, I can see her point of view. Randall broke a promise he specifically made to her. He told her that he'd quit, no questions asked, if she told him to. He didn't follow through here. He was the jerk, in my opinion, He hasn't known this community for very long and suddenly, he's promising to help them make their lives better? It would be fine and all if he didn't also promise his wife that he'd quit if she asked. 

As for the campaign, the only reason I think she even asked was because Jae won told both of them that he had no chance in winning. I think she would have held off if she thought Randall could win, but since he was told flat out that Randall can't win, I think Beth sees that him continuing with this campaign is pointless; from her point of view, why continue with the next few weeks if he's going to lose and when she believes that their family needs to be together right now? What is Randall going to do from Alpine? Drive every day to shovel their driveways? He can't save everyone and right now, his wife is telling him that his family needs him home and he's telling them that they're essentially not as important as those people he met three months ago. That isn't fair to Beth to pretend that she's ok with this. 

As for the financial situation, what Beth said in passing is that they were stretching their finances for the campaign. What that means, I don't exactly know. 

[callmebetty]

Since Randall has picked up the Savior Jack mantle.  I like that Kevin is the one who might find Nicky and find a kindred spirit in that regards. Kevin who seemed to have everything who spiraled with addiction and who he was, set out to find out about his father but found an uncle instead, who has his demons.

I'm going to let this play out, cause I find it interesting and I like that saint Jack kept such a monumental secret. 

Especially in a episode talking about the effects of keeping secrets.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't see why Kate would have to have a college degree to be a chorus director or whatever they they call the position she was going for in order to work as some sort of music director.

 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Being a high school choir/music teacher in the state of California requires a teaching credential, and a teaching credential requires a BA.

 

49 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It seems kind of ridiculous to have that kind of requirement for that type of position.

Every coach at my high school was also a full time teacher. Even the football and basketball coaches taught a minimum of four classes per day just like everyone else so they all had teaching credentials and bachelor degrees in something. Some of them taught PE classes but some of them taught academic classes. One of the cheerleading coaches taught history all day (no PE classes). The choir teacher, the marching band teacher, and the drama teacher at my high school were also full time teachers. They taught four periods per day of their subject, just like a math teacher or history teacher would teach four classes of their subject per day.

I don't think it's ridiculous to expect that an educator should be educated in the subject they're teaching. What I think is ridiculous is Kate not asking about the minimum requirements before going to an interview for a job and then acting surprised that she wasn't eligible. And as a choir teacher, her job isn't to just give positive feedback to whoever wants to sing. She should be able to teach choir students basic music theory at the very least, and as far as we know, her musical training consists of singing in her bedroom as a teenager, so even without a teaching credential she seems woefully underqualified for this job.

[marymon]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

It seems kind of ridiculous to have that kind of requirement for that type of position.

We don't know what the position entailed.    If it was an actual class and not just an after school activity  then a certified teacher would be required.

[betha]

Quote

  My first thought was that the person in the boat explosion was the Vietnamese woman who gave Jack the necklace and Nicky was responsible for her death, but that would be too dark for Nicky to come back from.

I wondered this too. Nicky kills the woman and her child. Jack can’t forgive him, but somehow still pulls strings to get him home safely. Nicky and Jack never speak again, and Jack never tells his parents the truth. 🙁🙁

[Trillian]

11 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I know Kate told Tess that she'd keep her secret. But I also understand why she tell Rebecca. This is a pretty huge thing and Kate's on the other side of the country. Like Becca said, Kate wanted someone looking out for Tess. It's Tricky when kids that aren't yours confide in you. Keeping their confidence while also respecting parental rights can be a bit of a tightrope.

But, it's not a huge thing.  The kid thinks she's a lesbian. It's not a crisis.  She's in no danger.  Let her come out on her own.  Geez, no wonder the kid looked so terrified to tell her parents.

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

When Beth was telling Tess that she loved her, I thought, please don't say "no matter what" so of course she did.

I totally agree, and was thinking the same thing.  "I love you matter what" is what you say when your kid confesses something bad.  At least Beth finally figured out she should hug her - I was afraid at one point that she wouldn't.

[preeya]

Question for the TIU experts.

If Nicky didn't get killed in the war, and he returned to the USA legitimately or not, then why is the family (including Jack) harboring the belief that he was KIA? And how does he conceal his true identity for 40 years?

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

He can do that without being councilman.  I loved it every time the other guy threw it in his face that he didn't live there.  

I hated that because in reality the other councilman probably doesn't really live their either.  He probably has an address in the area.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, preeya said:

Question for the TIU experts.

If Nicky didn't get killed in the war, and he returned to the USA legitimately or not, then why is the family (including Jack) harboring the belief that he was KIA? And how does he conceal his true identity for 40 years?

I'm wondering if Nicky did something in Vietnam that resulted in a prison sentence.  In 2018 he is out of prison and living in PA, but we don't know yet how long he has been there.  Instead of Nicky being actually dead, he was just dead to Jack.  There's a lot of story to unravel with this one.

[preeya]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm wondering if Nicky did something in Vietnam that resulted in a prison sentence.  In 2018 he is out of prison and living in PA, but we don't know yet how long he has been there.  Instead of Nicky being actually dead, he was just dead to Jack.  There's a lot of story to unravel with this one.

2

According to Kevin, he said his uncle was killed in the war. He had to learn that from Jack.

I'm guessing that the logical explanation has something to do with that explosion or perhaps he was just classified as MIA.

[3 is enough]

54 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did they explain why, when Jack was in the army, he did not have a military haircut?

Thank you!  This has been driving me crazy since the Vietnam story arc began.

Did Jack ever come out and say his brother DIED in Vietnam, or just that he was "lost" there, or "he never made it back" ?  

How much does anyone want to bet that Randall will pull off a miracle and win the election?  He should have listened to Beth.  Marriage and family come first.  I really dislike this storyline.

Nothing against the actress who plays Tess, but why would the producers cast a 13 year old to play a 10 year old?  I know actors play characters younger than their actual age all the time, but that has to be the toughest age group to play younger.  I know some girls hit puberty faster, but last year when Tess had supposedly just turned nine I thought she was 11 or 12, and it turns out I was right in a way.

[ChromaKelly]

8 hours ago, marymon said:

If Kate only needed 8 credits she might be able to be a sub.  No one with an ounce of sense would have gone in to a interview not knowing what requirements were needed and  more importantly no Principal would have even seen her if she didn't have the requirements needed.

One doesn't need a degree to be an on-call sub. As in, you get called to sub for the day, basically make sure the kids don't die. To be a long-term sub, you need to be a teacher (this is the districts I'm familiar with). Most long-term subs are new teachers fresh out of college trying to find a permanent position, retired teachers, or teachers who left (generally once they had kids) looking for work but don't want to come back full time. Long term subs need to be able to teach the material. There's more to being a high school music teacher than being able to sing a bit. A desperate district though might take a teacher who is still working on their certification.
I will admit I was willing to handwave all this, as I liked Kate last week with Tess and was thinking the writers were going to build off that interaction and have Kate find her niche as a teacher/mentor. 

[anna0852]

Jack would have been the one to tell his kids about Nicky. And he said dead, not MIA. Nicky is using his legal name. Whatever happened, he's not faking. I think Jack wrote him off for reasons yet to be revealed. 

[ChromaKelly]

16 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I hated that because in reality the other councilman probably doesn't really live their either.  He probably has an address in the area.

He probably at least lives in Philly or PA.

53 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

 

Every coach at my high school was also a full time teacher. Even the football and basketball coaches taught a minimum of four classes per day just like everyone else so they all had teaching credentials and bachelor degrees in something. Some of them taught PE classes but some of them taught academic classes. One of the cheerleading coaches taught history all day (no PE classes). The choir teacher, the marching band teacher, and the drama teacher at my high school were also full time teachers. They taught four periods per day of their subject, just like a math teacher or history teacher would teach four classes of their subject per day.

I don't think it's ridiculous to expect that an educator should be educated in the subject they're teaching. What I think is ridiculous is Kate not asking about the minimum requirements before going to an interview for a job and then acting surprised that she wasn't eligible. And as a choir teacher, her job isn't to just give positive feedback to whoever wants to sing. She should be able to teach choir students basic music theory at the very least, and as far as we know, her musical training consists of singing in her bedroom as a teenager, so even without a teaching credential she seems woefully underqualified for this job.

There's also formal job announcements and hiring processes that school districts have to go through. You don't just show up and interview with the principal.

Edited November 28, 2018 by ChromaKelly

[Lunula]

Hmm. Okay. So there are a couple thousand MIAs from Vietnam, so it's not completely crazy that Nicky is one of them. But...my first thought wasn't that he was still alive, but that he was wounded in Vietnam and went home - but later committed suicide and that is why Jack's father blamed him for not being able to "save" Nicky.

I totally missed that the "her" was Rebecca - I must've zoned out and I thought the "her" was Beth. I need to rewatch!

Not liking that Beth wanted Randall to quit the campaign. Honestly, if there are only a couple weeks left - couldn't he stay in the race but stop campaigning as much (being away from home, spending money, etc.) but not abandon the people he is making promises to and at least stay in the race until the election is over? Not sure why quitting immediately was the only option and she went so far as to kick him to the couch over it. Randall is right, it's not over until it's over - and quitting now, especially after making such passionate promises, would kill any future he might have in politics or making a difference in that neighborhood. I think it's important to show your children that your word means something and it's not like Tess or Deja have cancer and need his support 24/7. It felt forced to me. 

[Neurochick]

11 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

He probably at least lives in Philly or PA.

He kept bringing up Alpine all the time, wouldn't surprise me if he lived either there or Saddle River.  Wouldn't be the first time a politician pulled that shit.

[roughing it]

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Okay, did NOT see the Nicky twist coming.

Wait, what?  What happened?  I must have missed something...

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, betha said:

I wondered this too. Nicky kills the woman and her child. Jack can’t forgive him, but somehow still pulls strings to get him home safely. Nicky and Jack never speak again, and Jack never tells his parents the truth. 🙁🙁

It's not that I want the village historian to be directly connected to the few weeks when both Pearsons were camped at that site. But it does seems as if the son of a father/actor, a secret-keeper, may be acting himself. Acting out of kindness to someone who he realizes is the son of the same kind of father/actor. Or (despite Kevin's profession) why push the metaphor, for our benefit. 

It's possible that Nicky and Jack both left their marks on the village. And the historian -- who may yet prove to be the son of the young mother, who may yet prove to have been married to Boi -- wishes to let the ghosts rest.

[ShadowFacts]

I wonder if Rebecca's mention of having to use ibuprofen like candy was a throwaway, or will come up in the future.  Maybe she damaged her liver or kidneys from too much of it, and it plays into her demise.  Please Rebecca, try acupuncture or massage or physical therapy, too.  She has given up her secrets so her physical manifestations might benefit from different therapies. 

[Christina87]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It seems kind of ridiculous to have that kind of requirement for that type of position.

I'm a middle school chorus teacher, and let me tell you...it's a hard, hard job. This is coming from someone who had straight A's her entire life and attended a prestigious college. It's completely different from being, for instance, the choir director at a small church (not knocking them either! They are very needed). Middle school chorus requires planning for six completely different classes every day, planning concerts, producing musicals (being the director, musical director, choreographer, costume and set designer, etc), fundraising and handling money, and knowing enough music theory and history to teach different things to several different classes. Also, you have to know a LOT about child development, as music teachers are certified K-12. It's far from a job anyone could do off the street, and I think college is a fair barrier, as that's where you learn about child development / lesson planning, as well as advanced musical theory / planning events. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Christina87

[preeya]

23 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Did Jack ever come out and say his brother DIED in Vietnam, or just that he was "lost" there, or "he never made it back" ?  

How much does anyone want to bet that Randall will pull off a miracle and win the election?  He should have listened to Beth.  Marriage and family come first.  I really dislike this storyline.

Don't recall if Jack ever actually said Nicky died in the war, but Kevin had to get that info from someone and my assumption is Jack.

Randall can pull off a legitimate win without it being a miracle. The current councilman could drop out, die, become incompetent, or perhaps arrested for wrongdoing related to his job as a councilman. It's not so far fetched.

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, Laurie4H said:

Would Kate have even gotten an interview to teach at a school without a degree?  Wouldn’t they check her resume first?  I don’t have a degree and I wouldn’t even think to apply for a teaching position.  

Exactly!!! As an experienced music teacher, I have not gotten called for every job I've applied for. You have to fill out an application, and you aren't even allowed to submit without college information. Also, you aren't even allowed to sub without a college degree!

[WednesdayAddams]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Did they explain why, when Jack was in the army, he did not have a military haircut?

 

No, but in the movie Full Metal Jacket, or was it Platoon? There was a scene where the guys are getting high and tight hair cuts in boot camp. Then the barber says something all the lines, that they don't even have to cut their hair like that. I figured it was an unofficial rule. As long as it short.

[Pallas]

10 minutes ago, preeya said:

Randall can pull off a legitimate win without it being a miracle. The current councilman could drop out, die, become incompetent, or perhaps arrested for wrongdoing related to his job as a councilman. It's not so far fetched.

Great point. A deus ex political machina. And the same could even happen to someone in a higher post, so that Solomon Brown drops out of this race to run for that spot.

[bichonblitz]

23 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Wait, what?  What happened?  I must have missed something...

I must have missed it, too. I don't understand why so many are assuming Nicky is alive. What was revealed that would lead us to believe that? 

[Seelouis]

5 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I must have missed it, too. I don't understand why so many are assuming Nicky is alive. What was revealed that would lead us to believe that? 

Go back and watch the last few scenes. First the guide tells Kevin there is no Nicky Pearson listed as killed in the war.  Then there is a scene of a man entering a house. And a shot of mail addressed to Nicholas Pearson in Pennsylvania. 

[Empress1]

Add me to the "Kate needs a degree to teach music" group. I sang for a lot of my life and when I was in school, my music teachers and choir directors were all credentialed teachers. My high school choir was very competitive and rigorous and there's no chance they'd let someone in off the street with no teaching experience lead it. Really, Kate barely has SINGING experience. She's had one gig and the Adele O'Grams.

1 minute ago, bichonblitz said:

I must have missed it, too. I don't understand why so many are assuming Nicky is alive. What was revealed that would lead us to believe that? 

There was a stack of mail in the trailer addressed to Nick Pearson. (The address was in Bradford, PA; apparently Bradford is close to the NY state border about 80 miles south of Buffalo and 150 miles from Pittsburgh.)

[Rebky]

I loved this conversation between Kate and Toby:

Kate: So why don't we want to know the sex of the baby
Toby: Because we like surprises
Kate: Toby, we hate surprises. Remember Madison's birthday when the guy jumped out of the cake and you peed a little?
Toby: Ok, human beings are not supposed to be in baked goods!

[TwoGrayTabbies]

Has there been any mention of Beth having a background in ballet?  That seems like a future career twist from out of nowhere.

How could Nicky fake his death to his family but not the military?  I don’t know what the military did as to families of deceased soldiers (condolence letter?  paperwork?) but didn’t his parents wonder why they never got any “official” notice from the army?

I wasn’t satisfied with Beth and Randall’s response to Tess’s disclosure.  I felt she needed an affirmative statement that they were entirely comfortable with a lesbian or bi daughter.

[debraran]

1 minute ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

Has there been any mention of Beth having a background in ballet?  That seems like a future career twist from out of nowhere.

How could Nicky fake his death to his family but not the military?  I don’t know what the military did as to families of deceased soldiers (condolence letter?  paperwork?) but didn’t his parents wonder why they never got any “official” notice from the army?

I wasn’t satisfied with Beth and Randall’s response to Tess’s disclosure.  I felt she needed an affirmative statement that they were entirely comfortable with a lesbian or bi daughter.

Producers said  more coming about dance.  I agree, thought Beth and Randall were a little lame   We will always love you ....I heard a silient “ even if” 

[bichonblitz]

10 minutes ago, Seelouis said:

Go back and watch the last few scenes. First the guide tells Kevin there is no Nicky Pearson listed as killed in the war.  Then there is a scene of a man entering a house. And a shot of mail addressed to Nicholas Pearson in Pennsylvania. 

Ahhhh, thank you! My DVR completely cut off before the scene of the man entering the house. 

If there was no Nicky Pearson listed as killed in the war, wouldn't the military have investigated his disappearance? 

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

As for the financial situation, what Beth said in passing is that they were stretching their finances for the campaign. What that means, I don't exactly know. 

I think that means spending money they shouldn't be spending and making financial decisions that will affect them long-term, like depleting savings accounts, borrowing from retirement accounts, selling off investments, etc. There was a lot of speculation about their finances a couple of episodes ago, so I'm glad the show had Beth acknowledge that the campaign wasn't something they could easily afford.

[Lady Calypso]

46 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I wonder if Rebecca's mention of having to use ibuprofen like candy was a throwaway, or will come up in the future.  Maybe she damaged her liver or kidneys from too much of it, and it plays into her demise.  Please Rebecca, try acupuncture or massage or physical therapy, too.  She has given up her secrets so her physical manifestations might benefit from different therapies. 

We also don't know THAT Rebecca is dying in the flashforwards, at least right away. My first thought was dementia or Alzheimer's, hence why Beth was bringing the Pin the Tail game. Maybe that memory (with the Big Three having it at their birthdays as kids) is the only one that really sticks with older Rebecca, so it's a memory jogger. 

56 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

He kept bringing up Alpine all the time, wouldn't surprise me if he lived either there or Saddle River.  Wouldn't be the first time a politician pulled that shit.

Well, Randall lives in Alpine so I figure his opponent keeps bringing it up to drive the point home about Randall not being from around there, despite calling it "our" community a lot. And to be fair, the guy has a point. Randall can't stroll in to a community for two months and call it his. He DOESN'T know these people and he's never grown up in that area. Just because his biological father lived there, it doesn't make it Randall's as well. 

I mean, that's not to say Randall didn't have some perfectly valid points against the councilman and it's nice that he cares about that specific community enough to want to help. But, unless they all move to that neighbourhood, he'd have to choose one or the other. He cannot be there for that community and be there for his family. 

58 minutes ago, Lunula said:

Not liking that Beth wanted Randall to quit the campaign. Honestly, if there are only a couple weeks left - couldn't he stay in the race but stop campaigning as much (being away from home, spending money, etc.) but not abandon the people he is making promises to and at least stay in the race until the election is over? Not sure why quitting immediately was the only option and she went so far as to kick him to the couch over it. Randall is right, it's not over until it's over - and quitting now, especially after making such passionate promises, would kill any future he might have in politics or making a difference in that neighborhood. I think it's important to show your children that your word means something and it's not like Tess or Deja have cancer and need his support 24/7. It felt forced to me. 

Well, Jae-Won said that there were a few weeks left. Whether that means in two weeks or three or four, it's hard to tell.  The issue with this is that Randall wouldn't just stop campaigning as much. He made it clear that he was wanting to help the people in that community, and I don't think Randall would have just done it from home. That leaves Randall driving two hours one way for who knows how long. Plus, once he loses the election, those people would be just as pissed that he left them to fend for themselves. That would be sending an alternative message that he only cared about them if he won. Whether it's dropping out now or waiting until the election was over, there's a no-win situation with that community. 

Plus, I think Beth was more than done with the election stuff at that point. Randall and Beth were already spending hours away from their family when they were both part of the campaign. Even if Randall does lose, which should be obvious since Jae-Won said that he'd lose but this show isn't realistic anymore, his goal was to still help that community. He can't be there for his family while also being there for another community two hours away.

Not that I don't agree that the reasoning seemed forced, as I think it did. But I think the overall idea (Randall can't be in two places at once and the more time he spends helping that community, the less time he is at home with his family) is there. I'm on Beth's side because Randall would have to break a promise one way or the other, and he chose to break the promise with his family. Those people in that neighbourhood might appreciate Randall helping them, but they're not the ones he goes home to at the end of the day. And with Randall trying hard to be like Superman Jack, it just goes to show that it's a damn hard job to begin with.

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awwww, I love how positive Madison was about finding another job for Kate. And seriously, if Kate's only source of income is singing the occasional Adelegram, she could use another job anyway. At the beginning of her interview, I was wondering how Kate was at all qualified to be a teacher so I was glad that her qualifications (or lack thereof) were the first thing that the principal brought up. Getting a teaching credential in the state of California requires an undergrad degree. I really want to know how Kate is eight credits short of her degree and she can get those eight credits at Encino Community College. Community college classes are usually lower division aka requirements for upper division courses, so I am unclear as to how she was able to take all the classes she needs for a BA except eight lower division intro level classes.

I had to laugh when Kate said that she couldn't not work because she can't just sit around waiting for the baby. Wasn't her whole job when she was Kevin's assistant to sit around waiting for him to give her something to do?

Yes, Kate, you can not wait around and do nothing while you are pregnant for the good of the baby, because you are such an active person. This is why you are morbidly obese, have not finished college in 20 years, and have not sat around while your financially successful male relatives have pampered you to the point that you never even had a real job, even nearing the age of 40. I say this as an overweight woman myself, you are obviously nothing but a flurry of hard working activity.

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

When Beth was telling Tess that she loved her, I thought, please don't say "no matter what" so of course she did.

Oh my god, SAME!!!!! LOL!  ... "No matter what" that language was so predictable and weird.  

[Christina87]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Ruh Roh, I guess I stepped in it.  Big time.

That's okay! Not everyone knows what goes into any job they haven't done. Being open minded and willing to listen is key...thank you for that! 😃

[balmz]

Just now, Christina87 said:

That's okay! Not everyone knows what goes into any job they haven't done. Being open minded and willing to listen is key...thank you for that! 😃

just curious would kate with her brattyness and whinyness fit in perfectly with the students as a teacher even if she didn't have the other qualifications and enable her to be a good teacher?