S03.E09: The Beginning Is the End Is the Beginning

[chocolatine]

7 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Wait! Don't they live in a gigantic house? There is no guest bedroom? Geesh. So much needless drah-mah.

That was a big topic of conversation in S1. Back then, William moving in meant Tess and Annie had to share a room, and Beth was salty that Kevin was occupying her home office, so he had to move to the basement. With Tess, Annie, and Deja each having their own rooms now, I'm assuming Beth gave up her home office, and they don't have any other bedrooms. It seems like their house has four upstairs bedrooms, the kitchen, family room, and formal living/dining rooms on the main floor, plus the basement. That seems plausible.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Personally, I'd rather have a gay daughter than a straight daughter. Times ten.

So, flip this around and imagine your straight daughter scared to tell you she's straight.

[watch2much]

I worked with Vietnam vets on a psych ward.  My observation is that the true sufferers of PTSD became hermits.  They don't want to interact with the public.  some move into the wilds.  they don't want to talk about Vietnam at all, they prefer isolation.  So it may be that Jack tried to maintain a relationship but his brother chose to stay isolated and did not want to have a relationship with his family.  Jack may have tried but realized this was how he wanted to live.

[saber5055]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

So, flip this around and imagine your straight daughter scared to tell you she's straight.

Let me flip that for you: My bottom line is I could care less about the sexuality of any of my children, female or male. It just doesn't matter to me. Period. I just want them to be happy. What partner they chose is not a big deal IMO. Or if they chose no partner at all. I hate that this show is making it like being gay is some horror.

[PepSinger]

5 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Let me flip that for you: My bottom line is I could care less about the sexuality of any of my children, female or male. It just doesn't matter to me. Period. I just want them to be happy. What partner they chose is not a big deal IMO. Or if they chose no partner at all. I hate that this show is making it like being gay is some horror.

I don’t think they made it that at all. If anything, they showed how all parents should react. Tess being that worried showed there’s still animosity about being gay, and that unfortunately is a reality. If more people were like Randall and Beth, she wouldn’t have been worried.

Edited November 28, 2018 by PepSinger

[PepSinger]

36 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

And WTH Beth, you can't wait a few weeks? Kick Randall out of the house if he wins the thing. Meanwhile, you can sleep your ass on the couch.

Randall is the one who is in the wrong here, not Beth. Family comes first. His family needs him, and he cares more about traveling to Philly to be a city councilman than his own family. His needing to save everyone is going to leave his family without someone to save them. That isn’t right. Also, I would’ve dared Randall to tell my ass to sleep on the couch. That wouldn’t have ended well for him at all.

If he cared about just helping people, he could do that closer to home.

Also, Jae-won said that they could handle it if they were behind. However, he was too far behind. You have to be realistic, which is something that Randall clearly has a problem with. It will eventually bite him in the ass.

Edited November 28, 2018 by PepSinger

[tennisgurl]

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I like the idea of Kate going back to school to become a music teacher.  The writers have struggled with storylines for Kate, so I welcome this one.  It's a reasonable storyline instead of her trying to become a singer at 38 or Randall running for city council while he lives in another state.  I think it shows growth for Kate as she is finally becoming an adult.  

Me too, I think this actually works for her pretty well. Her trying to become a professional singer in her late 30s was always stretching credibility, especially as Kate, while certainly talented, is not exactly Adele. Being a teacher isnt a walk in the park either, but she certainly has more chances to be successful as a music singer than a lounge singer or whatever. And it would actually give her something to do beside be married, angst about being fat, and tell everyone how much her life sucks. 

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh my god, SAME!!!!! LOL!  ... "No matter what" that language was so predictable and weird.  

Yeah, that was very weirdly phrased, and while I know they were certainly surprised by the way the conversation turned, and they didnt handle it horribly or anything, I thought they should have just been like "I love you, thanks for telling us" and then gone from there. I felt bad for poor Tess, with her aunt telling her grandma, and her grandma trying to get her to come out to her. No wonder she was so stressed. 

[NUguy514]

32 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

The Randall-must-quit-the-election story line is so OTT. He was given the results of one poll, and based on the 2016 election, polls don't mean anything. And if the poll is correct and he's going to lose, then why withdraw from the race? Just give a concession speech when election results come in and be done with it. And WTH Beth, you can't wait a few weeks? Kick Randall out of the house if he wins the thing. Meanwhile, you can sleep your ass on the couch.

Then the Tess scenes. Geezy pete, go moping around like your dog just died. What's up with that? I can see her doing the moping though after it sunk in that she shared a secret with Kate. THAT'S a huge mistake for sure. Meanwhile: You are in middle school, who gives a care about whether you like boys or girls or neither. Do kids really dwell on such things at such a young age? I was so busy with doing things that I never gave sex or boys (or girls) a thought even during high school.

Well, tons of people lied about whom they were voting for in 2016, which is why those polls were so misleading.  I see no reason why that many people would lie for a city councilman election; moreover, the way Jae-won presented the polling data made me think Randall is behind by a LOT (like, 75-25 kind of split).  Randall is caught up in his own self-aggrandizing fantasy of what a superhero he is and will be for this community without having any plans to "save" this community beyond shoveling snow.  He should withdraw from the race because he's bleeding money and because he promised his wife he would drop out if she asked him to.  So, what does he do?  He breaks his promise to Beth and basically tells her she and their girls are second when she laid out the very valid reasons why she needs his presence and support.  So, yeah, he can sleep his ass on the couch, and Beth can keep the big bed for now.

And I'm going to assume you've never come out to anyone because treating Tess's coming-out so flippantly belies how hard it still is to come out.  It doesn't matter to whom you come out, it doesn't matter if you know definitively that the person will be loving and supportive, and it doesn't matter how old you are; it is, bar none, the scariest fucking thing, and I was older than Tess when I did it.  Should it be a big deal?  No, obviously, but it still is, and criticizing her for her inner turmoil about it is insensitive at best.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Let me flip that for you: My bottom line is I could care less about the sexuality of any of my children, female or male. It just doesn't matter to me. Period. I just want them to be happy. What partner they chose is not a big deal IMO. Or if they chose no partner at all. I hate that this show is making it like being gay is some horror.

I guess I misunderstood when you said that you would 10 times rather have a gay daughter.  You can see how that misunderstanding occurred.  Not everyone is the same and not everyone has to react to things exactly as you see fit. They told her they still loved her and it was OK. What more did you want from them 3 seconds after they found out?

[saber5055]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

What more did you want from them 3 seconds after they found out?

Better writing from the the show's writing team. Obviously, MMV.

[ams1001]

18 hours ago, Bama said:

Randall - “It’s time to go see her, Tess.”

Tess - “ I’m not ready.”

Randall - “Me neither.”

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, it could be a good memory for a person with Alzheimer's or similar, but I think the way Tess and Randall were approaching the visit with dread, and Toby had to be cajoled, it seems more serious/final than a regular visit to a loved one with dementia.  Plus the verbiage about "she would want you there", whether the she is Kate or Rebecca, makes me pivot away from that.  It seems more end of life. 

Maybe she's on life support and they're going to pull the plug... or she's terminally ill and has chosen doctor-assisted suicide (or whatever the terminology is these days).

 

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

1. Community college classes are usually lower division aka requirements for upper division courses, so I am unclear as to how she was able to take all the classes she needs for a BA except eight lower division intro level classes.
    
2. Ugh, Kate and Rebecca suck. Kate shouldn't have told Rebecca about Tess's sexuality because it's not her story to tell. And Rebecca should have denied it when Tess asked her if Kate told her. When people find out that you shared their secrets, THEY STOP TELLING YOU THEIR SECRETS. And as Tess pointed out, if she wanted to discuss her sexuality with Rebecca she would have told Rebecca about it herself. Just because she's a kid doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to have her privacy respected. She specifically asked Kate not to tell Randall and Beth. She shouldn't have to list every person in her family to make sure that she doesn't tell anyone else!

1. My brother went to community college before transferring to a state school, and ended up having to go an extra year, not because he didn't have enough credits, but because they required pre-requisites for some classes that he transferred from the community college. (Which worked out well for me, because my [private, out-of-state] school cut my financial aid grant by about $5K after he graduated, so I got three years instead of two before they did that, which saved me a chunk on loans.)
    
2. The reasoning bugged me, too. Kate told Rebecca because she was close by and wanted someone to be able to watch out for Tess (or whatever she said)? It's not like this was some dire situation and she was in danger of being kicked out of the house if her parents found out. I don't believe anyone in the family would think Randall and Beth would react badly to the news that one of their daughters might be something other than straight. And everyone and their grandmother has a phone on them almost all the time. Kate might be physically across the country, but she's a phone call away if Tess needed someone to talk to who knew her secret. (That said, I'm glad they didn't drag it out past the two episodes.)

 

8 hours ago, Driad said:

Did they explain why, when Jack was in the army, he did not have a military haircut?

Probably gave the barber a long story about how special his hair is and they let him keep it.

 

5 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I am convinced that the Viet Nam village historian is Jack's son because he certainly gave a Pearson monologue to Kevin.

Heh, I had the same thought. "If he's not a Pearson, then Jack at least left the Pearson spirit behind and it took up residence in this guy."

 

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

A couple I know having their first child together had one of those parties.  They gave the baker a sealed envelope from their doctor with the child's sex on it.  The baker made a batch of cupcakes, just one of which had something of the correct color in it.  So they found out along with their guests.  It strikes me as odd too, but it's now a thing.

I think the cake idea is cute, but I would only do it with people close to me who would actually care about what I was having (like parents/siblings and maybe a few close friends), or maybe as part of a baby shower. But not the sole focus of a big party. I've seen stories about some really crazy ones, some involving explosives and clouds of pink or blue smoke...one guy apparently started a forest fire with one of those.

Edited November 28, 2018 by ams1001

[tennisgurl]

Also need to mention, Randall's start of a joke about how he "secretly hoped Tess would never like boys" was super cringy. Not only because its a dumb joke to make when Tess is clearly really upset about something serious, but I hate those kinds of cracks from dad, and that general attitude. Yeah, Randall certainly wasn't serious, but its feeding into this narrative that girls are all innocent, slightly stupid flowers that must be protected from evil sex obsessed boys. Its a nasty stereotype to enforce to both young boy AND young girls, and it generally speaks to a creepy notion that fathers, as the dominant male in a girls life, must be territorial towards any other male of the species. 

Yeah, I am probably a little sensitive about that, I just really hate that trope! 

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also need to mention, Randall start of a joke about how he "secretly hoped Tess would never like boys" was super cringy. Not only because its a dumb joke to make when Tess is clearly really upset about something serious, but I hate those kinds of cracks from dad, and that general attitude. Yeah, Randall certainly wasn't serious, but its feeding into this narrative that girls are all innocent, slightly stupid flowers that must be protected from evil sex obsessed boys. Its a nasty stereotype to enforce to both young boy AND young girls, and it generally speaks to a creepy notion that fathers, as the dominant male in a girls life, must be territorial towards any other male of the species. 

Yeah, I am probably a little sensitive about that, I just really hate that trope! 

I agree with you (on both points). 

I was thinking "your daughter is trying to tell you something; shut the fuck up and listen to her."

[maddie965]

19 hours ago, brokenwing29 said:

The thing with Tess is so overblown. She was born in October 2008. She is barely 10...not a big deal if she isn't into boys. I know Kate had her best interests at heart and Rebecca was sensitive about it but she shouldn't have told after being asked not to. Tess only insinuated that she would be open to dating girls...not some big declaration. No reason to pressure a 4th grader to "choose a sexuality." If they are going with this storyline, fine, it's time the actress got some screen time, but sexuality with this youngest generation isn't so black and white and isn't a big deal. Like Tess said last year so nonchalantly, "I guess Grandpa is gay, or bi."

Thank you. She is 10, for God's sake. She is just finding out about her sexuality. She might be gay, or bi, or fluid, or even hetero. There's no way of knowing at this point. If she feels like she wants a girlfriend right now, that's amazing! Her parents just need to be there to support her and tell her that there's nothing wrong with that, and that she can love anyone she wants. Sorry, but I absolutely hate the sentence "We love you no matter what." It implies that they love her, even if she's gay. Because, clearly, that's not what they expected of her. How about "We love you", and that's it? Also, what's up with the sad faces? If my daughter told me she was into girls, I would say "Great! That sounds like fun!" The fact that she's finding out about her sexuality is important and the parents should be there for her. But the fact that she might be gay doesn't change anything. It's just part of her discovery.

Yeah, Beth is right about Randall, but this is coming too late in the season. I wish this fight had been developing for the last two or three episodes, at least. Or that they would at least discuss the issue now for what it really is: how Randall is completely lost, has been for a while, and how that search for meaning has turned him into the most selfish, delusional, entitled, unsufferable bastard in existence.

I love Kevin so much. Why oh why can't we have a Kevin-centric episode? Instead, we get five minutes of Justin now and then. We deserve best.

Edited November 29, 2018 by maddie965

[LoveLeigh]

15 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Thank god the days of an all white straight cast with the one troubled gay child are over.  We really have to stop normalizing hatred and bigotry for the sake of those who are uncomfortable about the myriad types of people in the world besides themselves. 

Well, I never liked the shows with an all white straight cast... except maybe 77 Sunset Strip. 

I am Jewish and grew up watching THE GOLDBERGS. And I never got into shows with one "troubled" gay child because I am a lesbian and even though I was in high school in the early 1960s, I never internalized my preference as an issue. My Jewish sister married a Puerto Rican man. All of a sudden, my sister had the bright idea that she might have been adopted, so I took a DNA test two years ago to satisfy her doubts. My mom had severe bipolar disorder and my dad was a closet homosexual. I am a senior and transage. 

Nothing really makes me "uncomfortable," but I still maintain this show stuffs too much into the Pearson's extended family. 

[crashdown]

Given the conversation that Randall and Beth had just had with Tess, I really think that Beth's forcing Randall to sleep on the couch was a selfish call. If Tess sees him there in the morning, she's naturally going to think that her parents had a fight about her, which means that one of them probably wasn't really cool about what she had told them. Not great, Bob!

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, mtlchick said:

The reports say that Griffin Dunne will be playing present day Nicky. 

The reports say that Griffin Dunne will be playing present day Nicky. 

So every other adult actor is aged up so they can play the same character in multiple times, but Nicky gets a different actor? That seems odd to me.

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

It doesn't mean Nicky is alive in 2018.  He could have died, say, 10 years ago.  

Someone named Nicholas Pearson was getting mail in 2018. 

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Yes, Randall is behind in the polls, but the polls can change in a short period of time.  Again, the election is only in a few weeks, not months.   Beth can't hold things together for a couple of weeks?  Again, she isn't employed, and neither is Randall.  Surely, something could be worked out.  

I want to know what kind of election it is that it is still a few weeks away after Thanksgiving?

[theatremouse]

11 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Would Kate have even gotten an interview to teach at a school without a degree?  Wouldn’t they check her resume first?  I don’t have a degree and I wouldn’t even think to apply for a teaching position.  

My brain sort of jumped to...she was 8 credits shy...so 2 classes...so not even a whole semester to go. So her totally truthful resume might say something like WhateverUni 1998-2003, and not list a degree. That's the correct way to list it when you attended and didn't finish, but if interviewer guy had just skimmed it and was really talking to her in the first place just because Madison asked and they're desperate for a good candidate, he might've seen the years in his head assumed finished since it's enough years to have done so. Hence it didn't sink in until she said it that she didn't have the degree. Or he just didn't look at any of her info at all before they talked, which is dumb, but totally plausible.

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

And lastly, even if Kate only needed 8 credits of general studies and can get them at the community college, where will her degree be from? CCs don’t hand out Bachelor’s degrees.

Many universities will accept transfer credits from community colleges or other accredited schools. So, presuming Toby actually looked into it before suggesting this plan, if all the rest of her credits are from where she originally went to school, and just these 8 would be from elsewhere, presuming the school will actually accept the credits and they meet her degree requirements, her degree would be from wherever she spent the bulk of her time matriculating. There's a lot of ifs though.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

They told her they still loved her and it was OK. What more did you want from them 3 seconds after they found out?

During that scene there was this moment...either as Tess was saying the words, or possibly right after, where the camera was on the Beth's face, and I LOVED that moment, because the look on Beth's face said to me "yeah, so what?" and I thought that was just completely perfect. Especially given that Tess finished the thought with not wanting it to be "a thing". If Beth's entire response had been completely nonplussed it would've been perfect. When she got up and started talking it was...not a terrible reaction at all...but not as good as that one original look on her face. 

The Tess plot this episode actually landed really awkwardly for me, 100% due to the writing. That moment in the previouslies when Tess was all "grandpa's gay, or at least bi" and then just walked away, cuz it ain't no thang? That's the Tess I miss, because that Tess knew her parents would not have a homophobic reaction, and would not make it "a thing". It was just matter of fact. Not even something to blink at. Now I get it, turn around two years later, the world is still terrifying, and once it's you, maybe that confidence melts. I get it. I've lived it. I don't find what went down with Tess in this episode unreasonable, but I do find it a whole lot less interesting to watch than that scene with her realizing William had a boyfriend. 

So to get back to what I wanted from them 3 seconds after they found out? I wanted them to react to Tess, the way Tess reacted to William. It would've been more narratively satisfying to me, it would've been more comforting to Tess, it would've been just all around better to watch, for me.

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

So, presuming Toby actually looked into it before suggesting this plan

Toby doesn't know what a bursar is, so I wouldn't assume that he'd done any research. He's a grand gesture guy, not a details guy.

[maddie965]

The first time I heard about Sex Reveal Parties was on this board. Not a thing in Brazil, thank God. Has the world gone completely crazy???

[doodlebug]

21 hours ago, screenaddict said:

I don't have a DVR, so I can't check this. But the ultrasound I saw on the doctor's screen in the office was not an ultrasound of a 14-week fetus. Surely somebody on staff is a mother and can say, look, a 14-week ultrasound is a round head, a round torso and some appendages. Do they even do screening tests that early? And wouldn't an amnio be worth a whole episode of watching Kate emote over whether it's worth the risk?

Nowadays, amniocentesis is almost never needed.  Around 10-12 weeks, an ultrasound is done to look for a thickened fold at the back of the baby's neck, it's called a nuchal translucency, and, if it is thicker than usual, it is a sign that the baby is at increased risk to have a chromosomal abnormality like Down Syndrome. If the nuchal fold is thick, a blood test can be done on the mom.  In Kate's case, because she is over 35, she would also be offered a blood test called free fetal DNA at around the same gestational age  whether the nuchal translucency was normal or not.  This simply requires drawing a tube of the mom's blood.  The fetus sheds it's cells into the mother's bloodstream from which the baby's DNA can be obtained so the chromosomes can be analyzed.  Like an amnio, this not only tells the parents that the baby is chromosomally normal, but also the gender.  The result comes back in a week or two and, if it is normal, no other genetic testing is done.  Amniocentesis is only performed if the results of the free fetal DNA are confusing or if the parents want a confirmatory test before deciding on whether to end the pregnancy.

[PRgal]

17 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Nowadays, amniocentesis is almost never needed.  Around 10-12 weeks, an ultrasound is done to look for a thickened fold at the back of the baby's neck, it's called a nuchal translucency, and, if it is thicker than usual, it is a sign that the baby is at increased risk to have a chromosomal abnormality like Down Syndrome. If the nuchal fold is thick, a blood test can be done on the mom.  In Kate's case, because she is over 35, she would also be offered a blood test called free fetal DNA at around the same gestational age  whether the nuchal translucency was normal or not.  This simply requires drawing a tube of the mom's blood.  The fetus sheds it's cells into the mother's bloodstream from which the baby's DNA can be obtained so the chromosomes can be analyzed.  Like an amnio, this not only tells the parents that the baby is chromosomally normal, but also the gender.  The result comes back in a week or two and, if it is normal, no other genetic testing is done.  Amniocentesis is only performed if the results of the free fetal DNA are confusing or if the parents want a confirmatory test before deciding on whether to end the pregnancy.

The doctor made it sound like Kate had something like Panorama or Harmony done as well - I don't think you can find out the sex with nuchal? 

[ThisIsMe]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also need to mention, Randall start of a joke about how he "secretly hoped Tess would never like boys" was super cringy. Not only because its a dumb joke to make when Tess is clearly really upset about something serious, but I hate those kinds of cracks from dad, and that general attitude. 

Agreed.

The other part of this that bothers me is that it displays the "assumption of heterosexuality." 

This is why it is still so hard for kids to come out (even 40 years after I did so to my parents).  Tess has been raised in a home, that although loving & well-meaning, has given her the message that she will grow up to be straight & all that jazz.  Hence, her tangible angst and discomfort in that scene.

As for Randall and Beth's reaction ... I give it a "B" at best.  I do realize that parents have their own "coming to terms" process upon learning that their assumptions re their children were not correct ... but ideally the better reaction would be along the lines of "of course we love you" AND "our bad" for assuming your path would be the same as ours.

[Christina87]

I thought the reaction of Randall and Beth was actually okay writing. It was probably something they'd just never thought about, and had no idea how they would respond. I can relate to that, honestly. We had training at work last year about how to respond if a student came out to us. They recommended saying, "thank you for trusting me with this. How private is this information?" They emphasized NOT going the route of whipping out a rainbow flag and screaming, "OMG, that is AWESOME!!!! I'm so excited for you!!! I have gay friends, and they have a great life! You will be so happy, and I still think of you exactly the same." I laughed, because in all reality, that's what I WOULD have said, just so they would be sure I was okay with it. Most people haven't been trained on this topic, and I'd venture to guess that the majority would react "wrong" one way or the other. 

I actually think this gives Randall and Beth a place to grow from. They are obviously "good" characters, not bigots, and know what discrimination feels like.  If the writers made Rebecca's mom react this way, I'd assume the worst, but I'm guessing the writers are showing them fumbling on purpose. They may look back and realize they could have handled it better and correct it when the time is right. They may start paying more attention to LGBT issues in general. I actually appreciate the honest portrayal, as it will be interesting to see where they go from here. 

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, PRgal said:

The doctor made it sound like Kate had something like Panorama or Harmony done as well - I don't think you can find out the sex with nuchal? 

No, an ultrasound for nuchal translucency is done too early to assess fetal sex.  Panorama, Harmony and Materniti 21 are all brand names for various commercial tests for free fetal DNA, the blood test done on the mother that I described in my post.  Due to her age, that test would've been offered to Kate and she obviously had it done and that's how the baby's sex was determined.

Edited November 29, 2018 by doodlebug

[ThisIsMe]

2 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

We had training at work last year about how to respond if a student came out to us. They recommended saying, "thank you for trusting me with this. How private is this information?" They emphasized NOT going the route of whipping out a rainbow flag and screaming, "OMG, that is AWESOME!!!! I'm so excited for you!!! I have gay friends, and they have a great life! You will be so happy, and I still think of you exactly the same." I laughed, because in all reality, that's what I WOULD have said, just so they would be sure I was okay with it.

Christina, I understand the low-key, advisable approach ... however, if my parents had whipped out a rainbow flag, I would have been over-the-moon happy.   (After being revived w/ smelling salts, of course.)

[Christina87]

4 minutes ago, ThisIsMe said:

Christina, I understand the low-key, advisable approach ... however, if my parents had whipped out a rainbow flag, I would have been over-the-moon happy.   (After being revived w/ smelling salts, of course.)

Hey, everyone's different! 😃😃😃 Hopefully each parent would know their own child enough to know how to react. I guess low key is probably best in a school setting lol, just because people don't normally act super silly in school! I wish your parents had. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Christina87

[Biggie B]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

7 hours ago, mtlchick said:

 

So every other adult actor is aged up so they can play the same character in multiple times, but Nicky gets a different actor? That seems odd to me.

Wasn't there a separate actor for William as a young man? I can't recall.

[Kira53]

6 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

Wasn't there a separate actor for William as a young man? I can't recall.

Yes.  You are correct.  He was very good as the younger William.

[Quickbeam]

Somehow, the Kevin storyline has become the reason I watch now. I like the rest of the actors but the Randall Beth drama makes poor use of their talents. More Miguel please. 

[KaveDweller]

17 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Yes.  You are correct.  He was very good as the younger William.

I had forgotten that. It must be because it is easy to age an actor up, but a lot harder to make an older person look young. They could age up the actor playing Nicky in Vietnam.

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

They could age up the actor playing Nicky in Vietnam.

Michael Angarano looks about 12 now!

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, maddie965 said:

The first time I heard about Sex Reveal Parties was on this board. Not a thing in Brazil, thank God. Has the world gone completely crazy???

Out in Arizona, a Border patrol officer had a reveal party that involved him shooting a bullet into an explosive-filled balloon of the right color.  44,000 acres of wildland and $8 million in damages later, he's going to have to work a lot of overtime.

I see that someone else watched American Graffiti 2.  Even George Lucas partially disowned that film.  Toad's scene is the only thing I really remember from it. 

[Violetgoblin6]

17 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

He probably at least lives in Philly or PA.

There's also formal job announcements and hiring processes that school districts have to go through. You don't just show up and interview with the principal.

Absolutely. I'm going through it now as I recently left my teaching position of ten years. The red tape is brutal. Plus there there are finger prints, criminal background checks, child abuse checks, essays...

17 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I wonder if Rebecca's mention of having to use ibuprofen like candy was a throwaway, or will come up in the future.  Maybe she damaged her liver or kidneys from too much of it, and it plays into her demise.  Please Rebecca, try acupuncture or massage or physical therapy, too.  She has given up her secrets so her physical manifestations might benefit from different therapies. 

That's how my nana died. It can happen. It burned a huge hole in her stomach. 

[gameshowjunkie]

13 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I don’t think they made it that at all. If anything, they showed how all parents should react. Tess being that worried showed there’s still animosity about being gay, and that unfortunately is a reality. If more people were like Randall and Beth, she wouldn’t have been worried.

This is something I've thought about a lot as I have a teenage son. I 100% believe people are born the way they are and strongly support gay rights. But as a parent, you hate to see your kids hurt. And while i wish the whole world were supportive of the LGBTQ community, they're not. Progress has been made but still a long way to go. So I saw Beth's reaction as being totally supportive of Tess but heartbroken knowing that being gay may mean a more difficult life for her daughter.

[alexvillage]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:31 PM, shouldbedancing said:

High Nicky was coherent enough to enough to fake his own death and escape the war and live secretly for a million years? Randall and Beth are gonna get divorced? Nooooooooo way! I yelled at the end of this show. I'm not here for this.

My thoughts exactly. they will have to come up with a very good reason to shove Nicky down our throats (I doubt they will though) or the FF button will be busy. 

I can't with anything Vietnam anymore. Nobody tells anything new and when they try to tell a personal story, they fail miserably. I did like the directing of the scene of Kevin walking through the village and Jack walking the opposite way.

"Blue is boy, Pink is girl" - UGH, UGH, UGH

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I thought the reaction of Randall and Beth was actually okay writing. It was probably something they'd just never thought about, and had no idea how they would respond. I can relate to that, honestly. We had training at work last year about how to respond if a student came out to us. They recommended saying, "thank you for trusting me with this. How private is this information?" They emphasized NOT going the route of whipping out a rainbow flag and screaming, "OMG, that is AWESOME!!!! I'm so excited for you!!! I have gay friends, and they have a great life! You will be so happy, and I still think of you exactly the same." I laughed, because in all reality, that's what I WOULD have said, just so they would be sure I was okay with it. Most people haven't been trained on this topic, and I'd venture to guess that the majority would react "wrong" one way or the other. 

I actually think this gives Randall and Beth a place to grow from. They are obviously "good" characters, not bigots, and know what discrimination feels like.  If the writers made Rebecca's mom react this way, I'd assume the worst, but I'm guessing the writers are showing them fumbling on purpose. They may look back and realize they could have handled it better and correct it when the time is right. They may start paying more attention to LGBT issues in general. I actually appreciate the honest portrayal, as it will be interesting to see where they go from here. 

They thought she was moody, probably because of recent onset of menses.  They didn't have a how-to manual.  To me, they did their parental best, which is not always perfection.  I know I do not have the perfect verbal response at all times, probably no one does.  Randall's initial wisecrack was the bit I could be the most critical of, but we all blurt out stupid stuff from time to time.  The thing that had me wondering was the short amount of time between Rebecca telling Tess how keeping a secret gnawed at her, and the revelation to her parents.  It seemed really fast, I wish my kids would be that receptive to the seeds I plant! 

[Cementhead]

11 hours ago, maddie965 said:

The first time I heard about Sex Reveal Parties was on this board. Not a thing in Brazil, thank God. Has the world gone completely crazy???

Yes, it has.  I blame Social Media.  Everything has to be an event now. 

[Pallas]

1 minute ago, Cementhead said:

Everything has to be an event now.

Not everything. Everything that happens to me. 

[albinerhawk]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:36 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I edited your post but I agree with the first point. 

If the Nicky is Nicky Jr could he be getting a survivor benefit (as the disabled adult child of a veteran)?

 

They can do cell free dna at 9 weeks I believe. @doodlebug am I right?

And from the dna you’d know the SEX of the baby (babies don’t have genders!). 

I'm currently pregnant and the same age as Kate. They often do a blood draw for women over 35 to look for chromosomal abnormalities as the doctor mentioned. It rang very true for me. The blood draw can be done as early as 10 weeks. Results usually come back 10 days later. The baby's blood is also in the mother's bloodstream. As long as they can extract out more than 4.9% of the fetal blood from the mother, they can successfully analyze the dna for abnormalities. The gender is just a bonus they throw in. Usually you can't tell until the anatomical ultrasound scan which is usually around 20 weeks. Again they are checking to make sure the baby is progressing and the gender is a bonus.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, maddie965 said:

The first time I heard about Sex Reveal Parties was on this board. Not a thing in Brazil, thank God. Has the world gone completely crazy???

It's been pretty popular for a while now in the United States. It was already mainstream enough that there was a story about it on Good Morning America in 2011. I blame Pinterest for this particular trend because everyone loved the cake reveals. At this point, it's akin to naming your kid Jaden/Kaden/Braden - it's played out but people are still doing it.

ETA: I don't recall exactly when it became a trend, but my cousin had reveal cakes for both her kids (born in 2011 and 2013) and I remember even with the first one, it was already really popular at the time.

Edited November 29, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DFWGina]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Just as a point of interest I think some of my Crimonology professors in university were simply lawyers.  I found it fine but it's interesting to note.  I am not sure what the requirements are before you become a university professor.  I guess I haven't thought about it explicitly.

Masters Degree in the subject you are teaching is the only requirement....    I would think the 3 years of law school would be greater than the 2 years a masters degree typically takes.  Now most university professors are PhDs or PhD candidates and any masters degree teacher would be working on PhD.   I explored this option as a side gig in my 20s since I do have a masters degree.

[PRgal]

42 minutes ago, albinerhawk said:

I'm currently pregnant and the same age as Kate. They often do a blood draw for women over 35 to look for chromosomal abnormalities as the doctor mentioned. It rang very true for me. The blood draw can be done as early as 10 weeks. Results usually come back 10 days later. The baby's blood is also in the mother's bloodstream. As long as they can extract out more than 4.9% of the fetal blood from the mother, they can successfully analyze the dna for abnormalities. The gender is just a bonus they throw in. Usually you can't tell until the anatomical ultrasound scan which is usually around 20 weeks. Again they are checking to make sure the baby is progressing and the gender is a bonus.

Though some chromosomal abnormalities are sex-related.  Turner's for example.   It was an option for our test, and we checked every "option" off.  No one other than the surrogate, her family, our families and those from an IVF message board (yes, message boards still exist - LOL!) I posted on knew we were having a boy.  

[TwoGrayTabbies]

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Out in Arizona, a Border patrol officer had a reveal party that involved him shooting a bullet into an explosive-filled balloon of the right color.  44,000 acres of wildland and $8 million in damages later, he's going to have to work a lot of overtime.

 

First “reality tv” fostered a wave of LOOK AT ME exhibitionism, then social media increased it exponentially.  At least Kate and Toby didn’t fly all their friends in to watch them live-stream the cake reveal.  By social media and Toby standards, the cake bit was modest.

[Pallas]

Quote

Just as a point of interest I think some of my Criminology professors in university were simply lawyers.

In the U.S., Australia and Canada, graduates of law school are Doctors of Jurisprudence -- J.D.'s -- and in the States, considered the equivalent of a PhD. 

[Mrs. DuRona]

21 hours ago, PepSinger said:

To add onto the Kate discussion, I cannot believe that she thought she would be qualified to teach without a four year degree. WTF? It strains credibility that she would be that stupid. Even if she didn't want to tell Madison, the minute the principal contacted her, she should've told him the truth.

To be fair, she A. probably didn't think you need a degree to teach chorus (as we have discovered in earlier posts here that some people don't know you do), and B. Madison made it sound like they were so desperate, at this point they'd take anyone.  So, I gotta give her a pass on going in unprepared and unqualified.

 

As for her being in school but not being able to drive.  2 hours in the car vs. two hours in a classroom are totally different.  She's not going back full time, so it's most likely she's only taking a class or 2 at a time. She won't be sitting sentient for hours on end.  She can stand up, go to the bathroom, move her legs and arms during lectures.  Sitting in a confined space like a car is totally different.

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Out in Arizona, a Border patrol officer had a reveal party that involved him shooting a bullet into an explosive-filled balloon of the right color.  44,000 acres of wildland and $8 million in damages later, he's going to have to work a lot of overtime.

That was the stupidest fucking thing I have ever seen. He'll be paying for that shit the rest of his life and he deserves it. Moron. Can you imagine thinking you're going to have a nice afternoon at a party and you have to run for your life because this fucking idiot decided to blow some shit up?

I guess I don't understand sex reveal parties because ... do people who are not the couple care that much about what other people are having? And even if you do, wouldn't you have enough home training to clap politely at the reveal no matter what it is? It's a 50/50 thing and the reaction is going to be the same no matter what. "Yay!" I always give neutral baby shower gifts anyway so it makes no difference. Also if a sex reveal party is in addition to a baby shower and another gift is expected, that strikes me as excessive and the "make it go viral" tendency we've developed as a society is what leads to that fool burning down 44,000 acres.

For Kate and Toby, it just seems like a waste because it was just the two of them and ostensibly they're not eating the cake (right? Are they  still dieting?), so they could have just had their doctor tell them.

[Lady Calypso]

Hello everyone! Just a reminder to keep your posts about the episode. Any discussions about plot points for future episodes that have been said in articles or interviews, such as the big Nicky mystery, should be taken to either the Media or Spoiler thread. Let's keep the discussion on what was presented in this episode! Thanks! 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, DFWGina said:

Masters Degree in the subject you are teaching is the only requirement....    I would think the 3 years of law school would be greater than the 2 years a masters degree typically takes.  Now most university professors are PhDs or PhD candidates and any masters degree teacher would be working on PhD.   I explored this option as a side gig in my 20s since I do have a masters degree.

Thanks, I find this stuff very interesting.

48 minutes ago, Pallas said:

In the U.S., Australia and Canada, graduates of law school are Doctors of Jurisprudence -- J.D.'s -- and in the States, considered the equivalent of a PhD. 

Thank you very much.

[alexvillage]

21 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

My guess is Future Beth was standing in what will be the new & improved “Pearson Community Rec Center” that St. Randall of Alpine brings forth after his historic come from behind, landslide win for a Council seat in the community in which neither he nor his family ever reside.  The new Rec Center will have:

ballet classes lead by Misty Copeland

basketball clinics run by LeBron James

counseling and therapy courtesy of Oprah

a free restaurant with Michelin Star chefs

a free health clinic staffed with doctors, surgeons and nurses from world renowned research hospitals

a bank ready to give small business loans to everyone, regardless of credit status 

3 Olympic sized swimming pools

a black diamond ski/snowboard run with chairlift 

and coming in 2035! a free Academy for Alternative Higher Education for Gifted But Underserved Youth with Professors Charles Xavier & Dumbledore

(If the TIU writers can live in a fantasy world, then let’s just go for it)

I actually like the idea of Randall giving up on the race and focusing on the Res Center. That would be awesome. Or maybe Beth does it herself to show him that it can be done without being a political thing.

 

I was so sure that Beth was having early symptoms of Alzheimers when she was on her job interview. Why all that drama if there is nothing to it?