S09.E03: The Jersey Breakfast Club

[kicksave]

3 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Teresa would be the worst.  But Jennifer is giving her a run for the money.

These women, carting their LV’s to fish and shoot.  

So true! They were trying to dress "country" style but failed miserably by mixing cut off jean shorts with LV bags, Chanel jewelry and Gucci boots. What asshats. The guy helping them with the shooting was totally turned off by them...you could see he was thinking, glad I'm being paid to do this.

[Baltimore Betty]

I can see Tre being upset by Joey not coming around a lot but Tre has to realize that her father is always around because he lives in her house...Joe and Melissa should take Nonno for a long weekend every month so Tre gets a break and Joe gets some quality time and Nonno can spend time with his other grandchildren.

As far as a day of mourning, I can see the first anniversary being something important to Nonno and maybe Joe and Melissa could have rescheduled their vacation.

We have yartzeit to commorate the anniversary of a death, thanks to the Hebrew calendar those dates keep moving around, this year my brother's yartzeit fell on my birthday so I spent some time at shul...my sister has gone a few times in 23 years but I am the one that makes sure my father is not there alone same when it is for my mother. 

I see Tre's side on this issue but damn she has no clue how to talk to people, she just picks fights.  

One thing I noticed about this episode was that the cameraman loves to film the HW's boots.

What an amazingly cozy house that woman had, like out of a magazine.

5 minutes ago, kicksave said:

So true! They were trying to dress "country" style but failed miserably by mixing cut off jean shorts with LV bags, Chanel jewelry and Gucci boots. What asshats. The guy helping them with the shooting was totally turned off by them...you could see he was thinking, glad I'm being paid to do this.

What was with one of the newbies with a half of a dozen designer bags she was digging out of her suitcase?  Where did she think she was going and what did she think she was going to do when she got there?  

Was newbie sad because there was no step and repeat on the walkway at that woman's house?

I'm shocked that there has not been a chorus of "Oklahoma," from any of those women.

[Barb23]

2 hours ago, jennylauren123 said:

I noticed Marge having lots of trouble walking in what looked like platform boots. I really think--and I know this is a weird thought for the New Jersey gals--that you should be able to walk in your shoes. Not hobble--walk!

I've noticed the hobble walk being done by a lot of the Housewives not just Marge from NJ.

I'd like to remind Joe he is not the only one in the workforce to get up at 5 a.m.

Even though it didn't work, I like that Melissa tried to get Tre to talk about their problems in private & not at the breakfast table on their first morning there. 

4 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Teresa would be the worst.  But Jennifer is giving her a run for the money.

These women, carting their LV’s to fish and shoot.  

I noticed Melissa carrying her bag when they finished shooting too.  Where did she think they were going?

Tre has really become hard to look at. From the loads of (eye) makeup to her multi colored hair & everything in between,  she looks awful to me. BTW, how can they wear that much eye makeup without doing damage to their eyes? 

[kicksave]

Jennifer: TAP...Turkish American Princess

Teresa: No ownership EVER of anything. It's everyone else's fault...always. Don't know whether this Teresa/Melissa thing is real or scripted out of desperation by the producers of this franchise but it certainly seems that way. 

Joe Gorga: I'm sick of his macho and misogynistic bullshit. And all the "Italian family" this and "Italian" family that stuff...enough...we get it. You're Americans and should be acting like modern men and women. Joe should be proud his wife has a business and contributes to the family finances...he should be encouraging that bratty daughter of his to get an education and have a career not be a vacuous spendthrift like so many of the women on this show. His values are so archaic and stupid...I just want to take a loaf of Italian bread and stuff his mouth with it every time he makes some raunchy comment or talks about how he was raised in the antiquated old world style back when he was a kid. STFU Joe. and BTW...for all your mouthing off about how he was raised in a "traditional" Italian patriarchal home, he certainly allows his kids to act like spoiled, unruly brats that could care less about what their parents say. No respect for Melissa and they run roughshod over macho Joe. Yet again we see their daughter practically throwing the pot on the counter and rolling her eyes and sighing when Joe asked her to get a pot out for the pasta. Way to go tough "Italian" dad!

Delores: Her boobs are bordering on being X rated for Bravo...yikes! they were almost popping out of her barely there shirt.

Final note: these women exemplify why so many people in "fly over" country, specifically the Midwest and Plains states hate people from the East and West Coast. Their behavior at this home, that was graciously opened up to them, was deplorable. The cursing at the breakfast table, the fighting in front of the host, the passive aggressive remarks about Oklahoma...and more, was rude and disgraceful. I felt badly for the hostess who went all out with a professional chef, people to take them around town and to entertain them with a shooting range and fishing pond. These women were horrible guests. Jersey trash.

Edited November 22, 2018 by kicksave

[walnutqueen]

7 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

 How long did they stay in OK, and just where did she think they'd be going that she would need all of those Chanel handbags?

 

She may provide comic relief with her high maintenance and one-upping, or she may prove to be insufferable. Time will tell.

I don't need any more time to deem her insufferable.  ;-)

[RedheadZombie]

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I don't need any more time to deem her insufferable.  ;-)

Agreed!

(Happy Thanksgiving to one of my favorite posters)

[walnutqueen]

2 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Agreed!

(Happy Thanksgiving to one of my favorite posters)

I don't observe holidays any more, but the sentiment is heartily returned.  :-)

[LibertarianSlut]

Teresa said again last night that she, too, has to work.  Does anyone know to what she was referring?  Was she referring to her workouts?  Those fake meetings she takes in New York that pertain to the books she doesn't write?  Is she breaking the fourth wall and talking about this show?  I am just really curious.  She keeps mentioning it.  

[SweetieDarling]

53 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Teresa said again last night that she, too, has to work.  Does anyone know to what she was referring?  Was she referring to her workouts?  Those fake meetings she takes in New York that pertain to the books she doesn't write?  Is she breaking the fourth wall and talking about this show?  I am just really curious.  She keeps mentioning it.  

I was going to suggest that maybe Melissa gave her a job as a cashier at Envy, but as I was typing, realized that Melissa probably knows better than to put Tre in charge of money or receipts.

 

I keep expecting her to endorse that large cooler she brings into restaurants. 

[RHJunkie]

I see a lot of Tre's point of view here but she's putting the accountability on the wrong person. She seems more upset with Melissa about it than when she speaks to her brother about it. It's not fair that she's putting it on Melissa to keep Joe in line and make him make time for their father. She puts it on Melissa because it's easier for her to be upset with Melissa than it is with her brother. And she's so into her own feelings that she can't take a moment to see how her and Joe putting Melissa in the middle of things is making Melissa feel. I do think Teresa has made some positive strides since jail but there's still a lot she needs to work on.

With Siggy out of the picture, now we're seeing as Teresa's ride or die like she claimed she was in seasons past. She was relentless sticking up for Teresa.

I'll give it more time but the Turkish one...yeah, she's hella annoying to me.

[Kdawg82]

Teresa is encouraging the "time with dad" for her own escapades.  She has body building & book tours -I'm sure -and needs Joe and Melissa there as helping hands to watch over daddy. So yeah I'm sure it isn't all for the sake of "family." I'm no Joe and Melissa apologist.  I just see through the b.s. enough from my own life experiences. Tree isn't fooling  anyone. And those gaudy cowgirls boots that "cost over $1000" were horrid.  The boutique was over priced but had nice western wear.

And Jennifer or whoever she is- getting called out by Marge as a "one uppper" needs to stay in her lane. Should've gone home with her hubby and kids if she can't find any positive in this OK experience. 

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Teresa is encouraging the "time with dad" for her own escapades.  She has body building & book tours -I'm sure -and needs Joe and Melissa there as helping hands to watch over daddy. So yeah I'm sure it isn't all for the sake of "family." I'm no Joe and Melissa apologist.  I just see through the b.s. enough from my own life experiences. Tree isn't fooling  anyone.

Even if her motivation is about doing those things, I don't see the problem. She shouldn't shoulder the burden of caring for her father when he has a son as well. My mom had to do everything for her parents when they started to go downhill, move into assisted living, and even when they passed. Her siblings were less than helpful. It sucks to have to go through all that alone. It's a mental and physical drain. To me, it's sort of like expecting the other parent to help with the kids so you can do stuff for yourself. Joe SHOULD help out more. 

The only thing I take issue with is the way Tre is putting this all on Melissa, instead of trying to resolve it directly with Joey. 

[BrindaWalsh]

Quote

Teresa being so upset about that confused me. Is the anniversary of her mother's death supposed to forever be a day of mourning? Is this a thing? Both of my parents are still alive, but I don't remember keeping death anniversary dates of my grandparents or aunts and uncles that have passed as solemn occasions.

I lost my mom a couple of years ago, and yes, the 1 year mark is slowly becoming this "anniversary day" for families to either just be together or do something happy together to bring joyful memories to a devastating day.  I personally don't get it.  I would see it all over social media with friends who have done this over the years.  I said to my dad and sister, are we supposed to be doing something?  My dad said - no, there are better days to be together to remember her, don't commemorate the day she died.  So we don't.  Given the grief that accompanies the loss of a mother, and the amount ot time it takes to feel your life start to "normalize," afterwards, that works for me.

That said, I'm sure melissa and joe knew what day it was when the booked the bahamas.  You can't not know.  So the whole "we just booked a trip" thing is kind of b.s. imo. It's legit to want to get out of dodge.   But it is also joe's primary responsibility to share that info with his family, not Melissa's. Joe can't handle being seen as doing anything wrong so he looks to everybody else and points fingers.  Just like his sister...

[lezlers]

Theresa is never going to be happy.  If Joe doesn't see their father enough, she's pissed.  If he DOES see their father (after she guilt trips him nonstop over it) then she's STILL pissed because it must be Melissa's fault he doesn't normally (despite the fact that Tre just asked him again specifically to see their dad when her and Melissa were out of town.) It's annoying as hell.  Melissa is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.  I liked when she reminded Theresa that she didn't grow up with all of the Gudice family traditions and it's not fair to expect her to live her entire life that way just because she's married to Joe.  Why does she have to ignore all of her OWN family traditions in favor of Joe's?  Because it's Teresa's way or the highway.  And that bit about a wife controlling her husband was REALLY rich considering how both Joe and Tre have spent the last few years of their lives.  Some control Tre has had over him, huh?

How often is Tre demanding Joe see their father (who kind of comes across as a total dick to Joe whenever they ARE together?) Every day?  The man barely sees his wife and children and Tre wants him to babysit their dad daily, too?  Come on, now.  I'd be annoyed if I were Melissa, too.   Tre wants Joe to put their father before his own wife and children and that wouldn't fly with me either.  Once a week would be plenty.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

And that bit about a wife controlling her husband was REALLY rich considering how both Joe and Tre have spent the last few years of their lives.  Some control Tre has had over him, huh?

I did find that bit pretty laughable. Was she controlling him when he was on the phone with another woman in that vineyard, and proceeded to call Tre a "cunt". Some control. 

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

How often is Tre demanding Joe see their father (who kind of comes across as a total dick to Joe whenever they ARE together?) Every day?  The man barely sees his wife and children and Tre wants him to babysit their dad daily, too?  Come on, now.  I'd be annoyed if I were Melissa, too.   Tre wants Joe to put their father before his own wife and children and that wouldn't fly with me either.  Once a week would be plenty.

Nobody, not Tre or Nonno or Gia, has specified an amount. They've only said "MORE". In the first episode, Nono said Joey hadn't called him in 2 weeks. Joey didn't deny it. I don't think anyone is expecting him to see his father DAILY. That was never said. I just think they want to see more of an effort. 

And I don't believe for one second that Joe Gorga "barely sees his wife and children". I think he's playing up how much he works. I need Pam Beesly to come along and take an account of how he spends every hour of his day, so we can get to the bottom of this. 

[Higgins]

22 hours ago, sATL said:

Tre lost me on that outburst. First she is mad at Joey for not spending time with the living (Nonno) and now she is mad at him for not spending time with the departed (Nonna). 

Last week there was a comment about Nonno might need to see a grief counselor. Now, I think Tre needs to see one. 

First -Tre wanted to have a gathering, or if one was mandated (requested) by their customs, church, or officiant,  she should have said something long before the actual date. If it was for the latter reason, Joey would have known b/c "he was taught " on what is expected for the deceased. 

Second - putting the late Nonna aside - I wonder if Tre could be a little jealous, as a member of the lonely hearts (and horny) club, that Joey and Melissa can just jet set off to the Bahamas on a romantic weekend.

Third - Tre needs to logically understand not everyone grieves or internally processes a death the same way. Maybes it is Joey's (and Melissa) way to deal - get out of NJ.  One concern is Tre how many death anniversaries, does she want to keep going ? All of this death remembrance/celebrations isn't good for the grandchildren either - find a happier, and age appropriate way to let the grands know about Nonna. Many holidays are dated close to the birth-date, not the death-date - with I guess Easter being the exception.

What is Joe's job? Anyone?

[dosodog]

20 hours ago, kicksave said:

Jennifer: TAP...Turkish American Princess

Teresa: No ownership EVER of anything. It's everyone else's fault...always. Don't know whether this Teresa/Melissa thing is real or scripted out of desperation by the producers of this franchise but it certainly seems that way. 

Joe Gorga: I'm sick of his macho and misogynistic bullshit. And all the "Italian family" this and "Italian" family that stuff...enough...we get it. You're Americans and should be acting like modern men and women. Joe should be proud his wife has a business and contributes to the family finances...he should be encouraging that bratty daughter of his to get an education and have a career not be a vacuous spendthrift like so many of the women on this show. His values are so archaic and stupid...I just want to take a loaf of Italian bread and stuff his mouth with it every time he makes some raunchy comment or talks about how he was raised in the antiquated old world style back when he was a kid. STFU Joe. and BTW...for all your mouthing off about how he was raised in a "traditional" Italian patriarchal home, he certainly allows his kids to act like spoiled, unruly brats that could care less about what their parents say. No respect for Melissa and they run roughshod over macho Joe. Yet again we see their daughter practically throwing the pot on the counter and rolling her eyes and sighing when Joe asked her to get a pot out for the pasta. Way to go tough "Italian" dad!

Delores: Her boobs are bordering on being X rated for Bravo...yikes! they were almost popping out of her barely there shirt.

Final note: these women exemplify why so many people in "fly over" country, specifically the Midwest and Plains states hate people from the East and West Coast. Their behavior at this home, that was graciously opened up to them, was deplorable. The cursing at the breakfast table, the fighting in front of the host, the passive aggressive remarks about Oklahoma...and more, was rude and disgraceful. I felt badly for the hostess who went all out with a professional chef, people to take them around town and to entertain them with a shooting range and fishing pond. These women were horrible guests. Jersey trash.

Hi there!   Long time west coast resident....

We don't behave that way.  The vast majority of us aren't on Bravo tv......

We're nice, polite, civil people. I have never seen people screaming at each other or throwing things in restaurants. I have not been on a group trip where we fought about rooms and if one room is really nice, why, gasp, we take turns getting that room on the trip.

On the flip side, I met people from Kansas.  Who could not stop insulting my great state with comments such as

• Does it ever stop raining?
• Is there any coffee but designer coffee 
• Your state is a bunch of potheads 
• Libtard  Snowflakes 
• Why do you have so many trees?
• Why is salmon so fishy?
• Ewww.  You don't expect ME to take the heads off those shrimp.

Those were not Kansas Assholes. Nope.  They were Assholes, who live in Kansas.

Assholes live everywhere.  In Jersey, in Kansas, on the coasts and in flyover country. 

[ladle]

It's pretty unfair that Teresa is afraid to really confront her brother for whatever reason (maybe because he's a hothead) and so she transfers her antagonism toward Melissa.  It makes me feel bad for Melissa, and I find that irritating since I really don't like Melissa.   

 

What is with the weird way Teresa enters names in her phone contacts? 

 

Melissa's onesie-overall getup in the shooting scene looked like a permanent wedgie.

Edited November 23, 2018 by ladle

[lilmarysunshine]

Disclaimer: Both of my parents died when I was a young adult so I have never been in the situation to look after parents. 

But the way to discourage your kids from calling or visiting is to spend all of the time when they do call or visit bitching that they never call or visit. Nonno seems like a pain in the ass to me. 

I know. I know. He is still Joe’s dad and Joe is the one constantly talking about family so picking up the phone on the way home from his 15 hr/day job (yeah, right) and spending a few minutes checking in with his dad is not going to kill him.

But Team Melissa on this. It is a horrible thing to accuse a sister-in-law of saying she works to keep her husband from his dad. Teresa has always been a bitch to Melissa - really strange dynamics between she and Joe - jealousy towards the spouses - and, no. It is not all “Italian” ways, I am sure, even though I am not Italian! 

[Mindthinkr]

I think this Theresa/Melissa fight is somewhat scripted as their storyline. It keeps the production out of their real business (which might be shady). They probably go home and laugh about it when the cameras are away. 

[Reality police]

On 11/22/2018 at 2:52 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

I can see Tre being upset by Joey not coming around a lot but Tre has to realize that her father is always around because he lives in her house...Joe and Melissa should take Nonno for a long weekend every month so Tre gets a break and Joe gets some quality time and Nonno can spend time with his other grandchildren.

As far as a day of mourning, I can see the first anniversary being something important to Nonno and maybe Joe and Melissa could have rescheduled their vacation.

We have yartzeit to commorate the anniversary of a death, thanks to the Hebrew calendar those dates keep moving around, this year my brother's yartzeit fell on my birthday so I spent some time at shul...my sister has gone a few times in 23 years but I am the one that makes sure my father is not there alone same when it is for my mother. 

I see Tre's side on this issue but damn she has no clue how to talk to people, she just picks fights.  

One thing I noticed about this episode was that the cameraman loves to film the HW's boots.

What an amazingly cozy house that woman had, like out of a magazine.

What was with one of the newbies with a half of a dozen designer bags she was digging out of her suitcase?  Where did she think she was going and what did she think she was going to do when she got there?  

Was newbie sad because there was no step and repeat on the walkway at that woman's house?

I'm shocked that there has not been a chorus of "Oklahoma," from any of those women.

I am grateful.

[Baltimore Betty]

30 minutes ago, ladle said:

What is with the weird way Teresa enters names in her phone contacts? 

What was that?  Something did look odd.

[heatherchandler]

On 11/21/2018 at 11:16 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

A

 

I don't know where Teresa thinks she is getting by yelling across a table that Melissa should take note that Joe spends time with his father when Melissa isn't around.  Does Teresa think Melisss is going to think about that statement reasonably, nod, and then make plans to move into an apartment with her children and her maybe-half-sister, so that Papa Gorga can live out his life the way that Teresa intended? A few seasons ago Melissa straight-up asked Teresa, "Do you want your brother to get a divorce?"  I really think now, with Teresa caring for their parent, and Joe Giudice getting deported, Teresa would be happy if Melissa just moved out of the picture and Joe Gorga moved into the mausoleum with her and her kids.  What a sick bitch.

 

Teresa knows why Bravo (Andy Cohen) pays her the big checks - she brings the drama.  She knows that her yelling at people keeps her on the show.  Melissa is really boring and she may want to bring something else to the table herself because no one is very interested in her life of making dinner and... I don't even know what else she does.

 

On 11/22/2018 at 8:33 AM, nexxie said:

Juicy, is that you?!

 

Juicy hates Melissa!  Remember when he said she looked like a squirrel, or a raccoon??  That was awesome.

 

20 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

I was going to suggest that maybe Melissa gave her a job as a cashier at Envy, but as I was typing, realized that Melissa probably knows better than to put Tre in charge of money or receipts.

True!  Also, is Envy still open?  

[sATL]

11 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

True!  Also, is Envy still open?  

yes - according to the website.  there is a link to click on "black friday deals" :)

https://www.envybymg.com/

[LibertarianSlut]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Even if her motivation is about doing those things, I don't see the problem. She shouldn't shoulder the burden of caring for her father when he has a son as well. My mom had to do everything for her parents when they started to go downhill, move into assisted living, and even when they passed. Her siblings were less than helpful. It sucks to have to go through all that alone. It's a mental and physical drain. To me, it's sort of like expecting the other parent to help with the kids so you can do stuff for yourself. Joe SHOULD help out more. 

The only thing I take issue with is the way Tre is putting this all on Melissa, instead of trying to resolve it directly with Joey. 

The problem, as I see it, is that there is no a priori amount of time that one is supposed to take with an elderly parent.  Almost no one has a contract.  It does not fall to the law, the way it does with minor children.  It's an act of mercy.  It's like giving to charity--no one can demand that you SHOULD do it.  If Teresa took that upon herself, good on Teresa.  If Joe doesn't want to see him or talk to him, the only thing I will say is that he can take the time to tell us why (the economics, as I've posted upthread, should probably be more-or-less split down the middle between the siblings, but as someone else posted upthread, Medicare pays for a lot of these expenses, including home health aides). Joe probably doesn't want to embarrass his father, but this storyline is plenty embarrassing to all parties involved as it is.  He might as well tell us instead of hiding behind his wife like a bitch.

Personally, I have a grandmother in a nursing home 15 minutes away, and I haven't see her in a year in a half, and I won't see her again. If I have any feeling at all when she dies, it will be relief.  That is my boundary, because she has been just awful over the course of pretty much my entire life. She was always putting me down, saying no one would want me, and she only got worse when I became an adult.  It was like she had no use for someone in law school--why educate yourself when you can be out trying to snag a rich man?  With her, everything was always about catching a man and it became very damaging to my psyche.  Add that to her outbursts, just being indecent, saying hateful things to and about strangers, cutting down your looks from head to toe every time she sees you, cutting down your education, purposely pitting cousins against one another, questioning people's marriages and talking awful about my dad's side of the family from the time I was yay high, she would put Papa Gorga to shame.  In my mind, my mom, who claims she goes to visit my grandmother every day (more like four times a week, but ok), doesn't have any moral high ground over my aunt, who lives across the country and comes once a year. I don't attribute staying away with shrifting your burden; I attribute it to survival.   

As far as the "right thing," this is the right thing for me to do.  It's apparently the right thing for my aunt to do.  The person who didn't do the right thing was my grandmother, spewing venom for decades, and it's not my responsibility that her chickens have come home to roost.  My mom didn't do the right thing by failing to shield me from her.  And for those who preach forgiveness, I discuss these topics with my therapist, and from time to time I even bring my mom to therapy, so that I can move on from some of the toxic occurrences that went on in my childhood, so that I don't bring them to my marriage, and to anyone else.  (I'm much more concerned that I don't pick up my family's dysfunction and run with it than I am with forgiving any particular person and forging some type of relationship with them before they die.  The people whom she didn't abuse can show her mercy. I'm dealing with myself.) I guess that's why I keep aligning with the Gorgas in this particular instance, when I am otherwise nothing like them.

So, IMO and in my experience, if this grandfather is actually toxic, Joe doesn't need to call him or see him at all.  And he doesn't need to apologize about it.  From what we've seen from the footage, I doubt Sr Gorga is this harmless old man.  

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I did find that bit pretty laughable. Was she controlling him when he was on the phone with another woman in that vineyard, and proceeded to call Tre a "cunt". Some control. 

Nobody, not Tre or Nonno or Gia, has specified an amount. They've only said "MORE". In the first episode, Nono said Joey hadn't called him in 2 weeks. Joey didn't deny it. I don't think anyone is expecting him to see his father DAILY. That was never said. I just think they want to see more of an effort. 

And I don't believe for one second that Joe Gorga "barely sees his wife and children". I think he's playing up how much he works. I need Pam Beesly to come along and take an account of how he spends every hour of his day, so we can get to the bottom of this. 

 

I agree we should be given a baseline amount of time that a.) Joe has and b.) Joe is spending with his dad already, c.) Teresa has and d.) Teresa is spending with their dad.  Without that, it becomes he-said, she-said from people who are too stupid to be reliable.  (For fans of The Office, I'd personally employ Jim Halpert, as he was the one who accounted for how Dwight spent all of his seconds at work).  

Lastly, if time spending = good person, isn't Teresa the biggest fucking hypocrite of them all that she can only be bothered to drive the hour and a half to visit her husband who went to the pen to give her a lavish lifestyle "once a month on average" aka every two months?  The dad loves Juicy; why isn't Teresa killing two birds with one stone and driving her father down to see him at Ft Dix every other weekend, at minimum?  Hmm, could it be because she doesn't want to and she's avoiding Juicy because she resents him?  Sounds familiar...

[ladle]

On 11/21/2018 at 9:25 PM, Bronzedog said:

The state of Oklahoma should sue Bravo.  First Vicki on RHOC trashed the state a few seasons ago (What do people even eat there?) and now the state has to put up with this mess.

And don't forget Taylor on BH who threatened to "go Oklahoma" on people's asses!

 

On 11/22/2018 at 10:13 AM, mwell345 said:

I don't know what Joe Gorga does for a living

Nobody does!

[ladle]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

What was that?  Something did look odd.

The one for her brother was something like "Joey, Brother or Joey" and her dad's was in a similarly-odd format.

[KungFuBunny]

On 11/22/2018 at 2:52 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

I can see Tre being upset by Joey not coming around a lot but Tre has to realize that her father is always around because he lives in her house...Joe and Melissa should take Nonno for a long weekend every month so Tre gets a break and Joe gets some quality time and Nonno can spend time with his other grandchildren.

As far as a day of mourning, I can see the first anniversary being something important to Nonno and maybe Joe and Melissa could have rescheduled their vacation.

We have yartzeit to commorate the anniversary of a death, thanks to the Hebrew calendar those dates keep moving around, this year my brother's yartzeit fell on my birthday so I spent some time at shul...my sister has gone a few times in 23 years but I am the one that makes sure my father is not there alone same when it is for my mother. 

I see Tre's side on this issue but damn she has no clue how to talk to people, she just picks fights.  

One thing I noticed about this episode was that the cameraman loves to film the HW's boots.

What an amazingly cozy house that woman had, like out of a magazine.

What was with one of the newbies with a half of a dozen designer bags she was digging out of her suitcase?  Where did she think she was going and what did she think she was going to do when she got there?  

Was newbie sad because there was no step and repeat on the walkway at that woman's house?

I'm shocked that there has not been a chorus of "Oklahoma," from any of those women.

That newbie's name is Jennifer - she uses the word Chanel in her tag line too. I think she looked down at the things in the store not because she had humble beginnings but because she won't spend money on anything unless it has a designer name attached. What a turd she has been to Polly, I hope Dolores says something to her. She wanted a white piano in her grand room - not because anyone in her family plays but because she always wanted one? That house was built in 2007, they purchased it in 2014 - so she and her husband are not the first or second owner of that property. The basketball court was already there - hah!

Even though I am snarking on her, I still like her more for the show than Jacqueline or Siggy. Speaking of Jacqueline - doesn't Jennifer look like a Turkish version of Whacko?

[Higgins]

1 hour ago, Reality police said:

I am grateful.

I doubt any of them except Margaret would even know the song.

[ladle]

45 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

So, IMO and in my experience, if this grandfather is actually toxic, Joe doesn't need to call him or see him at all.  And he doesn't need to apologize about it.  From what we've seen from the footage, I doubt Sr Gorga is this harmless old man.  

I actually agree 100% with everything you've written -- I don't think adult children owe anything to toxic relatives and I also agree that, based on what we've seen, Sr. Gorga probably is toxic.  That said, though, I don't think Joe G. actually thinks his dad is toxic!  His narrative is that he loves his dad, he sees him whenever he can, and the extent that he doesn't see him is due to his "grueling" "job."  So, while I find Tre to be generally horrible as a human, I can understand why she would be frustrated about this situation. 

I also wonder if some subtext of this conflict is that he sees his dad mainly when the cameras are rolling. 

[SweetieDarling]

On 11/22/2018 at 12:16 AM, LibertarianSlut said:

I don't know where Teresa thinks she is getting by yelling across a table that Melissa should take note that Joe spends time with his father when Melissa isn't around.

The examples she gave were, while she was at the hatchet throwing party and during the trip to Oklahoma,. What she failed to mention was that Teresa herself was not at the house with Nonno on those occasions either (at a daughter's dance recital and also in Oklahoma). So maybe it's not Melissa being around that 's keeping Joe from visiting dear old dad, but rather, the fact that Teresa wasn't around to tell him what a bad son he is.  

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, ladle said:

The one for her brother was something like "Joey, Brother or Joey" and her dad's was in a similarly-odd format.

Probably because she knows 65 Joes. Some people in my phone have parenthesized identifiers; the girlfriend of a friend (if she has a name that someone else I know also has) might be "My Friend's Girlfriend's Name (Friend's Name)" or I'll have something like "Name (Work)" if I know more than one person by whatever the first name is.
 

Quote

Jersey trash.

I think just "trash" works equally well (or better).

Edited November 23, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Reality police]

From the New Jersey state website:

While most people associate agriculture with our nation's heartland, New Jersey is home to more than 9,071 farms covering 715,057 acres of farmland. The state is among the leaders in many forms of agricultural production.  For example, New Jersey ranks: 5th in blueberry production, 3rd in cranberry production, 3rd in spinach, 3rd in bell peppers, 4th in peach production.  The state also produces an abundance of tomatoes, corn, apples, strawberries, potatoes, hay, soybeans and nursery stock.  

It just shows their collective ignorance about their own state. Turning up their noses at the gorgeous ranch, acting like they had never seen farmland or stock. Take a drive girls, see your own state before you bash another. There is a whole nuther world just outside your doors. Thanks to Marge for being the only educated one in the bunch.

[SweetieDarling]

18 minutes ago, Reality police said:

From the New Jersey state website:

While most people associate agriculture with our nation's heartland, New Jersey is home to more than 9,071 farms covering 715,057 acres of farmland. The state is among the leaders in many forms of agricultural production.  For example, New Jersey ranks: 5th in blueberry production, 3rd in cranberry production, 3rd in spinach, 3rd in bell peppers, 4th in peach production.  The state also produces an abundance of tomatoes, corn, apples, strawberries, potatoes, hay, soybeans and nursery stock.  

It just shows their collective ignorance about their own state. Turning up their noses at the gorgeous ranch, acting like they had never seen farmland or stock. Take a drive girls, see your own state before you bash another. There is a whole nuther world just outside your doors. Thanks to Marge for being the only educated one in the bunch.

RIght? When they arrived at Marge's friend's house and Teresa was so surprised to see cows, I was thinking "Really? You're from Jersey and you're not used to the sight of cows?" -maybe not up close and personal, but it's not like it was a bison or antelope. And it's not like Tre never left the Franklin Lakes area, they had a house down the shore, so she has HAD to drive by farms. She's so oblivious.

Edited November 23, 2018 by SweetieDarling

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

RIght? When they arrived at Marge's friend's house and Teresa was so surprised to see cows, I was thinking "Really? You're from Jersey and you're not used to the sight of cows?" -maybe not up close and personal, but it's not like it was a bison or antelope. And it's not like Tre never left the Franklin Lakes area, they had a house down the shore, so she has HAD to drive by farms. She's so oblivious.

To be fair, in the area where she lives (Montville, not Franklin Lakes; Franklin Lakes is about 20 miles north), you don't just see cows or livestock that often. That said, they aren't nowhere around--they are--but if you have no reason to drive in those areas, you're not likely to see them. Same for "farmland," which you don’t "have to" see on the way from here to the shore. If she's generally leaving her house to get to one of the many nearby major highways (which she likely did to get to her shore house in Manahawkin; this area is not far from the Parkway), she's so not seeing a cow. I’ve lived here in North Jersey, in various town, my entire life and am  definitely not what I’d call “used to the sight of cows” at all.

And that said, I still get excited when I see cows, donkeys, horses, or--best of all!--chickens out and about (I'm thinking of one particular location that I pass depending on what route I take to work; it's not far from her house at all, but I obviously have no clue if she ever needs to drive around there).

Edited November 24, 2018 by TattleTeeny
Because it seemed disorderly!

[Saltgypsie]

We all know what's going to happen when dad Gorga passes away..Joe is going to go bat shit ballistic and claim to be the worlds best son..Advice to Joe..spend as much time with your dad as possible.. time with him at this age is precious...

 

Um..no Theresa.. its not Melissas job  control Joe...Joe is a grown man, his decisions his heart ache..I mean Theresa should have learned this lesson in jail, she did such a good job at controlling her Joe, and all...

Oh, and I'll take Polly's house hands down over any of their trashy, cheaply made, horrendous mansions!

Edited November 24, 2018 by Saltgypsie
Added Polly's house.

[ladle]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

3 hours ago, ladle said:

The one for her brother was something like "Joey, Brother or Joey" and her dad's was in a similarly-odd format.

Probably because she knows 65 Joes. Some people in my phone have parenthesized identifiers; the girlfriend of a friend (if she has a name that someone else I know also has) might be "My Friend's Girlfriend's Name (Friend's Name)" or I'll have something like "Name (Work)" if I know more than one person by whatever the first name is.

Right, all of those identifiers make sense, and "Joey (Brother)" would totally have made sense, but the way she had phrased it -- "Joey, brother or Joey"-- was just nonsensical.   

[TattleTeeny]

Yeah, on that I got nothin'--just speculating!

[geauxaway]

2 hours ago, ladle said:

Right, all of those identifiers make sense, and "Joey (Brother)" would totally have made sense, but the way she had phrased it -- "Joey, brother or Joey"-- was just nonsensical.   

It just depends on your phone and how you label your contacts and how they label themselves and then if all those are networked.  For instance I have a friend in my phone that I labeled “Last Name” because that’s how I’ve always referred to her, but she calls me it comes up by that name, her full name, and also says “maybe”her daughters name (I think because of Facebook).  I’m probably not explaining this very clearly.

[ladle]

Ahhh, I think you're right that it may be a networking issue (I get the "Maybe [ ]" sometimes, too.), so I guess I can't really rag on Tre for that.  Good thing there's an abundance of other reasons to critique her!  :)

Edited November 24, 2018 by ladle
typo

[msrachelj]

On 11/21/2018 at 9:59 PM, nexxie said:

Teresa has zero empathy - her talking heads make that clear.

teresa is ugly inside and out. that scene with melissa where she was asking if she will ever think of her as a sister and teresa's reaction! teresa has no empathy or sympathy. she only cares about herself. and she is looking mighty fugly lately. even her legs look like tree stumps. the hair, the lips. in one shot she looked like a friggin doll in a horror story. good for her. with her money she could get a classy makeover but no, she is literally frightening. and the bitch gets to live in an albeit, classless, mansion and have no money worries. god, where are you?

[msrachelj]

On 11/21/2018 at 10:18 PM, LouLFC said:

Teresa has a very valid gripe against Joe and Melissa - being the carer for an elderly parent, especially one who appears to be as difficult as her father and while she is a single parent, is incredibly difficult. Joe and Melissa have yet to present a real reason why they don't seem to be helping her in any way (and it seems like 'helping' in this case could many times be as simple as Joe picking up the phone a few times a week and calling his father). They blame her or her husband for putting these ideas about Joe ignoring his father in the father's head when it seems like the father could draw those conclusions himself.

 

Teresa's problem is that she cannot effectively argue her case. She just says the same thing over and over at increasing volume. Eventually she goes from being sympathetic to the villain because she can't respond to what the other side is saying, she just yells her one argument louder. She needs to bring Gia along with her anytime she has this 'conversation' with Joe and Melissa in order to even attempt to actually make any headway.

they should pool their money and help him with renting a retirement apt. somewhere. i know from experience, 99% of the time it is hell living with an elderly parent or in law. and yes, there is always one siblings who winds up with most of the responsibility, emotionally, physically and  financially . and of course, the parent will still insist on the the estate being evenly divided. not me. i don't owe you anything. you'll get back what you give. 

[Mindthinkr]

16 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

teresa is ugly inside and out. that scene with melissa where she was asking if she will ever think of her as a sister and teresa's reaction! teresa has no empathy or sympathy. she only cares about herself. and she is looking mighty fugly lately. even her legs look like tree stumps. the hair, the lips. in one shot she looked like a friggin doll in a horror story. good for her. with her money she could get a classy makeover but no, she is literally frightening. and the bitch gets to live in an albeit, classless, mansion and have no money worries. god, where are you?

To me she has lost her femininity. She lacks grace and moves awkwardly. Money will never be able to fix the things that are wrong with her. 

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

That newbie's name is Jennifer - she uses the word Chanel in her tag line too. I think she looked down at the things in the store not because she had humble beginnings but because she won't spend money on anything unless it has a designer name attached. What a turd she has been to Polly, I hope Dolores says something to her. She wanted a white piano in her grand room - not because anyone in her family plays but because she always wanted one? That house was built in 2007, they purchased it in 2014 - so she and her husband are not the first or second owner of that property. The basketball court was already there - hah!

Even though I am snarking on her, I still like her more for the show than Jacqueline or Siggy. Speaking of Jacqueline - doesn't Jennifer look like a Turkish version of Whacko?

I agree that Jennifer wasn't scoffing at the price alone. It was that the price was so high for something SHE didn't deem worthy of it.

[nr65000]

I gotta agree with Marge - there is nothing worse than a "one-upper"

[LibertarianSlut]

4 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

To me she has lost her femininity. She lacks grace and moves awkwardly. Money will never be able to fix the things that are wrong with her. 

There is a lot about Teresa that is wrong.  From the way she opens her mouth, but instead of speaking she just makes cyclical gestures with her arms and hands, to the excessive blinking, I really think she is not firing on all cylinders.  I don't know if Teresa is coming off particularly poorly this season, because there is no one worse to foil her, but I can't stand her anymore.  I was actually pro-Teresa since season five--maybe even a little before then--because there was either a pile-on (and I loathe a pile-on), or there was just someone so odious (Jacqueline, Siggy), that it took the heat off Teresa a little.  

I think it's so obvious that Teresa was never meant to "carry" this franchise.  It kind of just fell into her lap and she ran with it, but I think she was always just meant to be the ditzy friend.  I'm not sure how feminine I've ever really found her, but I know what you mean.  It's like she got very hard these past few years--hard looking and a hard attitude.  It lifted a bit in the season prior to and the one after prison, I mean, camp.  But she's getting very ugly again now, and it's oozing out of her pores.  I think she is desperate.  I think she is convinced she got a raw deal.  She is anything but the easygoing girl who changed her outfit 150 times before being ready to go to the pool at the Borgota in season one, the one who would "love, love, love" everything. 

I actually like the original format of this show--sisters who are married to brothers, and their friends.  But since I hate a pile-on, I wound up hating them all by season two. I only imagine what it would have been like if they had cast Dolores instead of Danielle in the beginning.  Maybe the franchise would still be intact, and Teresa would still be the friend.  Weird.

 Personally, I don't like anyone carrying any franchise--it's an ensemble cast.  I don't like how we keep seeing the same players at the top of these franchises--Nene, Teresa, Bethenny, Lisa Vanderpump, etc., and then their rotating minions. Everyone should have their own storyline and carry their own weight or they are done.  

The two new women should have more screen time and their own storylines by now. Melissa is a total snooze and very fake when she's not fighting with Teresa.  There is nothing compelling or aspirational about her.  Her kids are even boring.  Last year I was very interested in Marge.  I felt like she commanded every scene she was in, and she was charming.  This year...not so much.

You know how a even a stopped clock is right twice a day?  I am so glad to have Jacqueline (and Kathy) off my screen, but I felt like that last season Jacqueline was on, she made an odd sort of sense at times.  Not when she was sitting in people's laps and telling them to rage on her ass so much, but more toward the beginning of the season when she wanted to set the record straight about Teresa's problems, and Teresa just wasn't having it.  I never really got that about Teresa.  She thinks she can give interviews to the tabloids about her money problems and how she and Joe may be going to jail, but her friends aren't entitled to ask about it?  I could just never imagine a friendship like that.  For some reason, no one is ever allowed to ask Teresa to get real.  It seems like those twins were getting close--they didn't know her and they didn't care for her asking if their mom had sex with Rino--and next thing we know, the twins are gone.  

She is a fan favorite, and Andy will protect her to the end of the world.  I just really don't like her anymore.  She is lonely, angry, fake and mean. I want to know how she kept that mausoleum after bankruptcy and all the Giudice crimes.  It doesn't seem fair that they didn't have to move back to Paterson, in the home with linoleum floors, when you see other Housewives downsizing for a lot less.  If she were stripped of that home, I think it would sever her last vestige of "fabulosity."  She'd just be another tacky bitch with horrible makeup and a bad dye job.  I also think if you put Melissa and Joe into a normal 2,000 square foot home, no one would want to film them either.  It should be interesting to see what happens when Joe Giudice gets out of jail, and whether he really gets deported.  I know he's a horrible person, but I actually kind of like him.  

There have got to be more interesting women, more wealthy New Jersey women who are willing to have their lives filmed. Maybe move to a different part of the state.  They don't even live in the wealthiest part.   If Andy moved this franchise to horse country and recast them all in favor of WASPs, it would be so cool if for no other reason to see the tacky bitches get their comeuppance for bringing us nothing for so long.  

This is the first time I'm saying this, and it never occurred to me not to watch a Housewife franchise if it was available--but if certain franchises--including this one, continue to fail to deliver by the end of the season, I might just stick with OC, NYC, Potomac, Dallas, and Melbourne, if it ever comes back.  NJ and ATL need complete recasts, and BH just hides too much to the point where I stop caring.  

[QQQQ]

Did anyone else find the placement of the shooting range target - in front of a house - odd?

[thesupremediva1]

On 11/22/2018 at 5:23 AM, snarts said:

He was practically gleeful telling Melissa what he wanted her to say to Teresa.  Hello, she is your sister, you talk to her.  

THIS!

Point of fact: Tre HAS carried the show since season 3. You don't have to like the storylines or the show (I haven't), but it's been her show.

Mel and Joey were probably all excited, thinking they'd get their turn to run NJ while Tre was "away." HA! Andy decided no show during Tre's "spa stay." 

All of a sudden the Gorgas were amenable to a detente after losing a year's paycheck. No mystery there. Now people are bored again so everyone's is stirring the pot and starting old arguments. It's all for the show but the sad thing is there are real issues there no one will ever address properly.

I miss the early days too, when Tre and fam were fluffy comic relief and the Juicys were united with the Laurita and Manzo clans against the certifiable Staub. This wasn't the route I'd have taken, but you can thank Staub and the Gorgas for all this nonsense. I really do not think family members should be cast together on these shows.

[LibertarianSlut]

9 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

THIS!

Point of fact: Tre HAS carried the show since season 3. You don't have to like the storylines or the show (I haven't), but it's been her show.

Mel and Joey were probably all excited, thinking they'd get their turn to run NJ while Tre was "away." HA! Andy decided no show during Tre's "spa stay." 

All of a sudden the Gorgas were amenable to a detente after losing a year's paycheck. No mystery there. Now people are bored again so everyone's is stirring the pot and starting old arguments. It's all for the show but the sad thing is there are real issues there no one will ever address properly.

I miss the early days too, when Tre and fam were fluffy comic relief and the Juicys were united with the Laurita and Manzo clans against the certifiable Staub. This wasn't the route I'd have taken, but you can thank Staub and the Gorgas for all this nonsense. I really do not think family members should be cast together on these shows.

I think you made a lot of good points.  

I agree it's been Teresa's show, probably since she tossed Andy on his chair in the season two reunion, and I agree it hasn't exactly been poetic.

I agree that family members shouldn't be cast on this show, if they're going to be adversaries, like Teresa and Melissa.  It not only makes filiming uncomfortable, but it makes it unrealistic.  Teresa and Melissa probably wouldn't have very much to do with each other if they weren't on the same show, so seeing them go to Oklahoma together, along with a bunch of other "friends" (whom they hardly even know) is kind of...stupid.  

I think it's more ok to cast family if they come on the show as people who would naturally be in each other's lives, like Nicole and Ter-ESS-a or Caroline, Jacqueline and Dina.  If they have a falling-out after that (as the latter three did)? I don't care as much, because it probably would have happened anyway (wasn't it revealed that Caroline doesn't speak to some of her other siblings either?).  

I'm not sure the Gorga/Giudice detente timeline was as linear as Melissa and Joe cozying up to Teresa after she got back from " away."  The first schism in the alliance that was Gorga/Manzo/Lauritae/Walkile vs Guidice happened in season four, when they were in Napa and Caroline started a batshit-crazy argument with Teresa, and the Gorgas and the Guidices flew out early, leaving Caroline sobbing on a bed.  Then things went askew again at the finale, when Teresa allegedly accused Melissa of having been a stripper, which I thought was such a bullshit accusation against Teresa that had no legs, whereas Melissa kept changing her story.  That, and the way Jaqueline, Lauren Manzo and Rosie used every disgusting trick in the play book to try to tear Teresa apart at the reunion was when I officially switched to Team Juicy.

I think almost all of season five was a realignment, with the Gorgas and Guidices reuniting from the Lake George Accords (aka the fight that left the mysterious hair polish everywhere) on, and teaming up against the Manzos/Lauritae/Walkiles when it was in their best interest.

Season six, as I remember it, was all cozy between the sister in laws, but no one knew Teresa was going to jail until the very end of season six.  (The judge even said she had been planning on only probation for Teresa, pretty much until sentencing day, when she saw that, once again, Teresa failed to fill out essential paperwork given to her by the court).  

I think the cozying up that occurred after prison was due in large part to a common enemy (first Jacqueline, then Siggy), not so much because the Gorgas were looking at Teresa as a cash cow who was going to save their bacon (too many meat metaphors there, perhaps).

Can we say that the Gorgas took a gamble that Teresa was going away and thought they were taking over the show in her absence?  I am not sure I see evidence of that as far as the timeline goes. I think it's more likely that the Gorgas gave up the feud in part because they thought Teresa might be less of a force to be reckoned with, as her husband was definitely going down, and in part because their feud was getting boring, and they wanted to stay ahead of the curve with regard to storyline.  Either way, there is no love lost there, and plenty of unfinished business to complete.  They are such a dysfunctional family.

I think Teresa's mom's death, and the fact that Teresa thinks Joe Guidice somehow "made" her lose a year with her mom, is playing a huge role in the 180 degree change in demeanor Teresa is showing from being all post-prison Namaste.

[IslandGirl]

This is a tricky one. Far be it from me to ever defend Teresa, but IslandBoy is bad about calling his Mom, so I often dial the phone, hand it to him, & say, "Talk to your mother". That said, the way Teresa approached her sister-in-law was ridiculous, as was her cold response to Melissa's vulnerability.  Some of this reminds me of that old saying:
A son is a son until he takes a wife,
but a daughter is a daughter for the rest of her life...

Edited November 25, 2018 by IslandGirl
Because writing is in the editing...