Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[ByaNose]

Yeah, 18-20 players is the standard and going no where. Also, since they’ve been in Fiji they haven’t a medevac (could be wrong) because the conditions are perfect. There’s been no rain and the heat isn’t a major factor anymore. I actually sort of miss all the suffering. It makes me feel better about my surroundings. LOL!!!! I think the double vote out tonight will help, too. It is interesting how the last 5-7 days are a rush and they cram in the RC, IC & TC to meet their deadlines. Obviously, it ain’t a surprise to the castaways anymore. They can count. Except, when there is an extra vote added or missing at Tribal Council. They still haven’t caught on yet. LOL!!!!!

[Guest]

I preferred to get to know the final 3 or 4 more like we used to.  Now it seems like they cram so much in the last few days, it's all a rush.  I don't need the old Trek of Fallen Survivors back but maybe a little about how they feel about facing off against X and Y at FTC, what points they plan to highlight to the jurors, etc.  

[Lantern7]

Funy115: Ruffling Feathers? Rustling Feathers? Basically, it's Tyson being a dick.

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Funy115: Ruffling Feathers? Rustling Feathers? Basically, it's Tyson being a dick.

If it weren't for the context, I'd say "You need to be more specific.", or "You mean, 'it's Tyson being himself.'"

[KimberStormer]

let's see how many women Mario can insult in one entry...all of them, you say?  And Parvati for no reason??  What an unbelievably unexpected surprise.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Also, I know there always talk of the Michelle Fitzgerald edit but I would have to watch her season again. I know she wasn’t as visible as Aubrey but I couldn’t tell you how many confessionals and airtime she actually got.

I think Michelle's edit is undersold tbh. She was not invisible. The biggest tell imo that she was the winner was that she would get confessionals when it didn't really make a lot of sense for her to get them since she wasn't driving the story.

Also, I still don't understand why Jeff hates her win so much.

[LanceM]

For the record Michele finished with 57 confessionals for the season with half of them coming in the last 3 episodes.

[Jextella]

On 3/6/2018 at 11:49 PM, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: The many reactions of Spencer Bledsoe.

Spencer is one of my all-time favorite contestants.  Nice trip down memory lane.

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, LanceM said:

For the record Michele finished with 57 confessionals for the season with half of them coming in the last 3 episodes.

Wow! That’s a lot. That said, I don’t if that’s a lot or not.....in general. LOL!!! I will say the Koh Rong edit really fooled me. It seemed so obvious (to me) that Aubrey was going to win. I liked Michelle and don’t begrudge her win but the edit didn’t show it. Thus the blowback she received which wasn’t her fault. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, LanceM said:

For the record Michele finished with 57 confessionals for the season with half of them coming in the last 3 episodes.

That’s what I was talking about with how we maybe can’t assume the top talker now will be that still at the end.  

I don’t know how we know Jeff hates her win but if he does I assume it’s because she had no story arc they could show much of so it was a disappointing season to many viewers.   Jeff should care about viewer sentiment.  

[LadyChatts]

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That’s what I was talking about with how we maybe can’t assume the top talker now will be that still at the end.  

I don’t know how we know Jeff hates her win but if he does I assume it’s because she had no story arc they could show much of so it was a disappointing season to many viewers.   Jeff should care about viewer sentiment.  

Here's one comment Jeff made during a pre-show MvsGX interview (at the time, he was entertaining the jury change that was coming for GC):
 

Quote

 

Bitter juries – are they on the comeback? And is there anything you can do to combat them or are they just an occasional reality?

I’m going to go out on a limb: last season’s jury was an aberration. I think Scot and Jason were really tough [last season]. And they got to that jury. Nothing against those guys, it’s their prerogative to play how they want, but I felt their impact was pretty hard. I have an idea – not for this season but for next – to change the final tribal up to help the jury be less bitter. I’ll be curious to see if it works.

 

It's not the first time he's made a comment similar to that.  I know his sentiment following KR was that he was very pro-Aubry and not at all happy with the outcome.  Maybe he just hated Scot and Jason that much that he took it out on Michele.  I wouldn't put it past Probst.

[Guest]

Thanks.  I don’t hate Michele or her win but I agree with him that a bitter jury result where the best player (assuming less bitterness) doesn’t win is disappointing.   I’m not taking anything out on Michele.  She won fair and square but if I was a juror I think I’d have given it to Aubrey.  

I guess it’s the word ‘hate’ that feels out of place to me.  And the frequent implication that it has something to do with her being female.   But hyperbole and feminism are deep in our culture here.  Lol 

[LadyChatts]

Where I disagree with Jeff is what makes a bitter jury and what makes a great winner.  In reality, it's a popularity contest.  TPTB are their own worst enemy because they helped create the bitter jury concept going all the way back to season one with the rats vs snake speech by Sue Hawk.  Instead of telling contestants to not take it to that level in later seasons, they no doubt have been encouraged to lash out and act up in front of the cameras.  And, it makes them memorable.  I'm surprised they didn't change the jury format up after Russell lost (twice).  I think Aubry played a decent game, and while I didn't agree with Michele's win, I can't blame her for winning, for creating social bonds, and for getting a more invisible edit.  Even in the finale, it seemed like they were telegraphing an Aubry win.  I kept waiting for the votes at the winner's reveal before realizing that there was no way who I thought was the obvious winner was winning.  While I may not be a Michele fan, I do have to sympathize with her that her win keeps getting trashed by Probst and that she wants to come back solely to redeem herself.  Out of all the outcomes, that's one he seems to go back to the most.  I also don't think changing the jury format to what it's been changed to really matters.     

I can also agree with Probst that Jason and Scot were two bitter assholes, but they weren't the first nor the last, and I really don't think they had much to do with convincing the jury to vote for Michele.  Losing Neil didn't even hurt Aubry's chances, she was never going to win with that jury.

[loki567]

The funny thing with Michele, the editors really did try with her. For an UTR female winner, 57 confessionals is quite a lot. For comparison's sake, Aubrey had about 70 and that's going to TC several times more than Michele. So for all the justified grief the Survivor editors get over the years for underselling their female winners, I don't think you can put Michele's win not being well received on them. 

Michele's win came off so unsatisfying because it was so unsatisfying. And yeah, I know it's not her fault who voted for her and in a purely philosophical sense that, "whoever gets the most votes to deserves to win," and Natalie was the better player than Russell, and all those Survivor fan platitudes. But Michele's margin of victory was two of the biggest sexist douches in the history of the game. Scot and Jason spent their beginning, middle, and end of their games bullying women and the fact that they got the last word, Scott in particular had the defining jury speech, was depressing as fuck. 

And I didn't buy into the "Michele's great social game," argument. The Jury speaks established Scot and Jason just wanted to see Aubrey and Cydney lose because those were the two they identified as most responsible for their losses. If there was some great bonding moment between Michele, Scot, and Jason, it gets shown because the editors did everything they could to prop up Michele's win. 

Now all that being said, I have no issue with Michele returning. Survivor always struggles with making young female castmates memorable enough to return and Michele would be a lot better than a lot of those names. Compared to SIERRA or Stephanie V. or Libby, Michele is an All-Star. 

[KimberStormer]

I mean, there were a lot of people calling Michele's win early on just because they felt she got an unusual amount of focus when she had never even been to tribal and was not giving scintillating interviews or anything.  (Then there was that person who was saying she was one of, if not the greatest Survivor player of all time at that same point in the game...baffling.)  I don't think she was underedited really.  There's not a lot you can do with a game like hers, laying low and turning up the challenge performance at the end.

I do think Michele played fine -- the UTR late bloomer game is a totally legit game -- and Aubry made several enormous mistakes, but really she was one meat reward away from winning against two of the goatiest goats ever in Tai and Joe.  It's pretty inarguable that from a TV perspective, semi-wacky character Aubry is going to be more to the producers' liking than pretty-but-boring Michele, so I can forgive Jeff of that one.  On the other hand his attempts to help the pretty-but-boring males by making the so-called "provider role" more important this season (attempts which obviously completely failed since nobody cares about the less food and chore wheel) is pretty annoying.

[TVFan1]

As I said elsewhere, I enjoyed seeing Michele win Koah Rong. It was well deserved in my opinion.

If she wants to come back, I'm all for it. She should come back and win a second time.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

On the other hand his attempts to help the pretty-but-boring males by making the so-called "provider role" more important this season (attempts which obviously completely failed since nobody cares about the less food and chore wheel) is pretty annoying.

I forgot about that. How hilarious that it hasn't been shown at all. Jeff must be so sad!

Edited May 7, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[LadyChatts]

11 hours ago, loki567 said:

The funny thing with Michele, the editors really did try with her. For an UTR female winner, 57 confessionals is quite a lot. For comparison's sake, Aubrey had about 70 and that's going to TC several times more than Michele. So for all the justified grief the Survivor editors get over the years for underselling their female winners, I don't think you can put Michele's win not being well received on them. 

Michele's win came off so unsatisfying because it was so unsatisfying. And yeah, I know it's not her fault who voted for her and in a purely philosophical sense that, "whoever gets the most votes to deserves to win," and Natalie was the better player than Russell, and all those Survivor fan platitudes. But Michele's margin of victory was two of the biggest sexist douches in the history of the game. Scot and Jason spent their beginning, middle, and end of their games bullying women and the fact that they got the last word, Scott in particular had the defining jury speech, was depressing as fuck. 

And I didn't buy into the "Michele's great social game," argument. The Jury speaks established Scot and Jason just wanted to see Aubrey and Cydney lose because those were the two they identified as most responsible for their losses. If there was some great bonding moment between Michele, Scot, and Jason, it gets shown because the editors did everything they could to prop up Michele's win. 

Now all that being said, I have no issue with Michele returning. Survivor always struggles with making young female castmates memorable enough to return and Michele would be a lot better than a lot of those names. Compared to SIERRA or Stephanie V. or Libby, Michele is an All-Star. 

While I agree about Scot and Jason, I also think Aubry was going to have an uphill battle.  I don't believe she ever had Julia's vote, and she wasn't getting Debbie's.  The only person who they might have swayed was Cydney, but that still wouldn't have mattered.  I just don't get why Probst has such an issue with that particular season and outcome.  I re-watched Gabon recently, and talk about a jury with a vendetta!  Since there was already an anti-Sugar majority in the jury it's not like they had to do much persuading to anyone anyway, but they openly said they were voting for Susie just to spite Sugar out of getting 2nd place.  Similarly we saw that happen in SJDS when Reed threw a vote Jaclyn's way so Missy wouldn't get 2nd.  If we had the new jury format in any of those seasons, it still wasn't changing the outcome. 

I do think Michele had a better social game than Aubry, but maybe that goes deeper into the dynamics of real life: the young pretty girl is going to bond better with the jerk jocks and pretty people than the awkward nerdy girl.  I was actually surprised by the number of confessionals Michele got, because I literally remember very little about her.  Michele isn't someone I'd care to see come back, but I guess I wouldn't care if she did, either.  I'd love to see her blow Probst out of the water, however.  I do agree her returning makes more sense than some of the other people that they've brought back.

[OutOfTheQuestion]

I have to laugh that so much of Probst's "bitter jury" animosity about Kaoh Rong is directed at Michele.....and seemingly not at Scot or Jason, the two jackasses that actually caused all of the bitterness.  God forbid Probst criticize any of his beloved alpha male players.

I honestly don't think the new open forum FTC format would've changed any result in Survivor history.  Maybe in one of the very early seasons, perhaps --- I could see Thailand swinging differently if the jury had had more time to fully suss out the "Clay said racist comments" situation.  As LadyChatts, the game is ultimately just a popularity contest, and jury members almost always have their votes decided long before they get to the final tribal.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Dan in the big chair. I remember this one. So funny. Nice digs from Mario on Probst pimping a dud of a movie.

[LadyChatts]

On 5/6/2018 at 11:17 PM, KimberStormer said:

I mean, there were a lot of people calling Michele's win early on just because they felt she got an unusual amount of focus when she had never even been to tribal and was not giving scintillating interviews or anything.  (Then there was that person who was saying she was one of, if not the greatest Survivor player of all time at that same point in the game...baffling.)  I don't think she was underedited really.  There's not a lot you can do with a game like hers, laying low and turning up the challenge performance at the end.

I do think Michele played fine -- the UTR late bloomer game is a totally legit game -- and Aubry made several enormous mistakes, but really she was one meat reward away from winning against two of the goatiest goats ever in Tai and Joe.  It's pretty inarguable that from a TV perspective, semi-wacky character Aubry is going to be more to the producers' liking than pretty-but-boring Michele, so I can forgive Jeff of that one.  On the other hand his attempts to help the pretty-but-boring males by making the so-called "provider role" more important this season (attempts which obviously completely failed since nobody cares about the less food and chore wheel) is pretty annoying.

Wow, I had totally forgotten about that!  Yeah, he definitely picked the wrong season to introduce that.  Has anyone been out there looking for food or working around camp at all?  Usually we get some glimpse of it, though not like we did in the old days.

[Hera]

Bringing this over from the episode thread:

On 5/18/2018 at 7:35 PM, KimberStormer said:

I've been thinking a lot about why I liked One World but find this season a bit boring.  I might think about it in the past seasons thread if I have time.

I wonder if it's because One World showed more of what each player was thinking? Or just gave more equal time to everyone in general. Looking over the cast who made the merge, the only person I don't remember is Michael. I also remember that Leif didn't get a lot of airtime (he was memorable because he's a little person), but according to other players, he didn't really know what was going on anyway. But for everyone else, they either were in an alliance with Kim or thought they were. Plus, One World had that whole unpleasant storyline with Colton and Alicia bullying Christina. It also had Kat, who is as entertaining as she is dumb.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Gervase and Tina revisit their respective personal hells.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: the final, final, FINAL stand of Jonathan Penner. Also, Abi Maria is still horrible,

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Naonka vs. Marty; Naonka still sucks.

[Mrs. P.]

On 6/9/2018 at 1:02 AM, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: the final, final, FINAL stand of Jonathan Penner. Also, Abi Maria is still horrible,

Lantern7, why did Mario black out Skupin's eyes and use an alternate name for him? Is it because of all of the terrible revelations about his child pornography collection and subsequent legal problems?

[ProfCrash]

24 minutes ago, Mrs. P. said:

Lantern7, why did Mario black out Skupin's eyes and use an alternate name for him? Is it because of all of the terrible revelations about his child pornography collection and subsequent legal problems?

What?

Damn. Just damn

Edited July 2, 2018 by ProfCrash
Did some research

[Nashville]

On 7/2/2018 at 10:56 AM, Mrs. P. said:

Lantern7, why did Mario black out Skupin's eyes and use an alternate name for him? Is it because of all of the terrible revelations about his child pornography collection and subsequent legal problems?

I assumed he used clip art from “True Detective” or some such.  :D

[KimberStormer]

Parvati had a baby!

[Lantern7]

Funny115: A look at Semhar from South Pacific.

[cleo]

...

Edited August 2, 2018 by cleo
Moved to correct thread

[simplyme]

On 5/7/2018 at 10:42 AM, LadyChatts said:

While I agree about Scot and Jason, I also think Aubry was going to have an uphill battle.  I don't believe she ever had Julia's vote, and she wasn't getting Debbie's.  The only person who they might have swayed was Cydney, but that still wouldn't have mattered.  I just don't get why Probst has such an issue with that particular season and outcome...

I do think Michele had a better social game than Aubry, but maybe that goes deeper into the dynamics of real life: the young pretty girl is going to bond better with the jerk jocks and pretty people than the awkward nerdy girl.

I think Michele played a great game and was the deserving winner. I also think Aubry had an uphill battle at that tribal.

One thing Kaoh Rong really drove home for me is that I can't necessarily rank players as to how "good" they are because they don't have the same Survivor experiences. Michele was able to avoid conflict with pretty much everyone for an extended time by never being on a losing side and going to a Tribal Council until something like the merge. Aubry's tribe lost quite a few times, and while she made it through, that tribal council maneuvering created tension between her and a lot of other people: Peter, Scot, Julia, and Debbie to name a few.

So I do feel Michele had the better social game, she stepped up and won crucial challenges when she needed to, and she very strategically chose when to flip on people (and gathered little to no ill will for it). She's the winner, and she's a good one. The biggest criticism of her was that she coasted through the beginning, but what was she supposed to do? Throw challenges? So she essentially did pretty much everything right.

Aubry had to fight much harder to even stay in the game. She made some crucial strategic alliances, and she did very well at a number of challenges. I felt that the tribes she was on affected her social game because she had to maneuver more. I don't think she was a better or worse player than Michele. I just think she got different circumstances that made the game much harder in addition to maybe having a tense, nerdy persona that fewer people would be comfortable losing to. But Survivor isn't a fair game.

I can understand Jeff liking Aubry and her style of play. I do too. But I don't think that should invalidate Michele's win in any way. She played exactly as she should have socially, physically, and mentally. Random circumstances also being in her favor are not her fault and shouldn't be held against her.

[OutOfTheQuestion]

It's hard to evaluate "best player ever" (other than Sandra) because the rules change every season, but you can actually make a good case for Michele as one of the best winners.  Between her good social game and being good at challenges, she didn't really have any flaws.  The fact that two of Aubry's biggest supporters were both medical removals was a lucky break for Michele, but every Survivor winner has been lucky in one way or another, plus Michele was arguably unlucky when the Beauty tribe lost Caleb early on.  Let's be honest, if Michele was a guy, Probst would've praised her victory to the hills.

Two major statistics in Michele's favor:

1. Between all of her tribe wins, her individual immunity wins, and the large amount of medical evacuations in Kaoh Rong, Michele was only eligible to be eliminated at four tribal councils.  That's a extremely underrated achievement in a game with so many wild twists --- Michele simply avoided danger at pretty much all times. 

2. Michele, to my recollection, didn't have any idols or special advantages to help her along the way, aside from the "remove a juror" item that ended up not mattering in the vote.  If I'm not mistaken, Michele is the only Survivor winner from seasons 26-36 that didn't have a hidden immunity idol to help her in her victory.

[lilabennet]

I'm rewatching Pearl Islands, and Ryan looks so much like Henry Fonda I'm surprised I didn't notice it the first time around.  Relative?

[KimberStormer]

Rewatching Second Chances while I wait for the new season to start.  (I don't think there is a catchall Season 31 thread, and I don't really want to go through this whole board looking to see, so here I am in this thread instead.)  I've gotten through the whole pre-merge. 

It's interesting to rewatch.  For one thing, although it's a season full of great players, so far every single vote has been incredibly stupid.  The presence of Abi and Varner, and especially the fact that they were both on the same team, is just an amazingly huge, destructive force, they dominate the game together by being so crazy bananas.  Like putting Joe, Jeremy, and Savage all on one team is unfair...but putting Abi and Varner together is even more unfair, since they reflect and intensify the tribe-annihilating effect of each other.  Another thing is that I find I'm reacting to not only the show but my memories of this board.  I'm afraid having watched it again, I'm even more convinced that you were all insane when you hallucinated that Monica was obsessed with the women's alliance and terribly disloyal and Kimmi was totally justified in voting her out; everything about that is factually false.  The only person obsessed and disloyal is Fishbach, tbh, with his Joe fixation.

It's extremely entertaining, though I wish the quality of game was up to the standard I remembered it being.  Hopefully, the post-merge is as good as I recall.  Kelley Wentworth, for example, has been hardly present since her star turn in episode one (the tension of will-she-get-the-idol at the challenge was just as intense the second time around...even though I knew she would, I was convinced she wouldn't.) 

The one person, of course, who is playing a great game, a sort of surreally great game, is Jeremy.  It's incredible how he's working people.  One of the greats, I truly believe it.

[Lantern7]

On 8/18/2018 at 6:58 PM, lilabennet said:

I'm rewatching Pearl Islands, and Ryan looks so much like Henry Fonda I'm surprised I didn't notice it the first time around.  Relative?

Osprey? I don't know if anyone compares Ryan Shoulders to handsome-looking people. I wonder if he and Lillian are still friends.

[KimberStormer]

Watched from the merge up to the big two-part episode where Fishbach goes home.  The pre-merge was The Age of Abi; this part was The Era of Ciera.  And what an era that is, an amazing sequence to watch; Ciera is a flawed hero no doubt, but still, an amazing performance.  While I still think voting Woo out instead of Savage was a dumb move, I'd forgotten that nobody had even slightly expected such an early merge so there was no way to know that Savage would immediately be out of danger.  (Similarly, I'd forgotten that they went directly to tribal for the Vytas vote, which very slightly excuses them for not voting out Abi...although it wasn't like people were voting all over the place, so I guess they knew what the plan was beforehand.)  And while inserting herself in the weird merge drama was bizarrely pointless, Ciera's play-from-the-bottom hustle is in the league of Tracy from Micronesia to me.  Of course Kelley Wentworth's idol is the key to the lock, but it is Ciera who oils the hinge, it is Ciera who walks through the door.  With barely any allies and a huge army arrayed against her, two episodes later Ciera is dictating the vote at the reward as Tasha can only shake her head in frustrated wonder.  She manages to deflect Ciera's aim from Jeremy to Kelly Wiglesworth once, but the next time she is voting for Stephen with her, and it's only Jeremy's own game-changing idol that can stop this momentum.  Amazing.

Something I had forgotten, and I would have told you was absolutely false a couple days ago: it is Jeff Probst, not Stephen, who coins the term "voting bloc", and does so during the Kass vote, which is a normal, boring alliance vote, no voting blocs in play.  I can only assume that he was noticing the Abi Effect of the pre-merge, the way that Abi swung wildly to whatever side she felt benefited her at that moment, past votes be damned.  (Also, so funny how once Ciera is gone, Abi is back to being a force of chaos.)  In any case it's fascinating because the term clearly took on a life of its own and informed people's way of looking at their alliances, a very unusual case of Probst affecting the game.

Such strange editing choices this season...two scenes which seem to have had game-changing consequences, the Varner-Tasha "we got a rat" meltdown (as everyone calls it) and the Kass-Tasha merge confrontation, both almost entirely left out of the actual show.  It's bizarre.

[KimberStormer]

Finished! (Well except the reunion because I can't stand them.)  Definitely less fun towards the end for me, although there are plenty of pleasures to be had.  Joe and Abi go out without much excitement beyond poor Joe's collapse at the challenge and the fact that Abi, because she is the best, is contemplating not "how to get people to take me" but "who do I want to take" to the end.  Fascinating that her decision was apparently to go with Jeremy, Kimmi, and Tasha; my guess is it really goes to show how badly Tasha was percieved, since Abi decided to go against those who wanted to vote her out, explicitly saying she was thinking of Final 3 when doing so.

Still love Kimmi for her move down the stretch -- execution was not great, but the idea was perfectly sound.  (It's interesting to note that it would have been, were perfect foreknowledge possible, better if Kelley hadn't played her idol: she and Jeremy would still be immune, and there's a chance Tasha could have pulled a rock, whereas as it happened only Kimmi or Keith could go home.)  Really though, although I believe it was said post-game that it was never seriously considered, the women's alliance was the best chance for all the women involved.  Kelley was always going to need to win final immunity, and she had a better chance against the women (plus she had the idol); and Tasha, Kimmi, and Abi is a final three all of them should have wanted, giving each their best shot.  It would have given the proof Tasha needed that she wasn't Jeremy's pawn and forced everyone to look at her game as her game, Kimmi had a great story and everybody hated Tasha and Abi, and Abi could with absolute truth on her side have said "I dominated this game and these two did nothing compared to me."  (I doubt she would have...but man I wish I could have seen Abi's FTC pitch, whatever it was, against whoever she came up against!)  So if it was never a serious possibility, and that is true because of Tasha, it just goes to show that Tasha seriously blew it on this season; I have no idea what she (or Spencer for that matter) thought she was doing with that Final 3.

Jeremy though, such a deserving winner.  I've said it before but I think he played the most Spradlinesque game we've seen since One World.  He was not in total control at all times, but he was so subtle and crafty in the midst of all the gonzo craziness.  That scene where he tries to get Keith's attention is so perfect, because it's not only hilarious, it's also totally brilliant: the slightest, subtlest motion, and now it's Spencer who will go home instead of him, if Kelley or Keith (btw Keith Nale!  What a lovely man he is) did pull an idol.  It's a real symbol of his game.  What a game.

Rather than the finale, I have to watch one of my favorite bits of Survivor media at all, much less only this season: Kelley's Ponderosa.  It really affects me, seeing her so glassy-eyed and emaciated (lost a quarter of her bodyweight, insane), sitting at the table surrounded by people eating, staring at nothing.  She truly gave it everything she had.  It can't help but be a great season with so many great people in it.  Let's hope next season can approach that level!

[cherrypj]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

That scene where he tries to get Keith's attention is so perfect, because it's not only hilarious, it's also totally brilliant: the slightest, subtlest motion, and now it's Spencer who will go home instead of him, if Kelley or Keith (btw Keith Nale!  What a lovely man he is) did pull an idol.  It's a real symbol of his game.  What a game.

The enduring image of GC for me is Jeremy wearing his hoodie up and watching. Always watching. 

[KimberStormer]

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:10 PM, Kenzie said:

The closest I can think of was in Pearl Islands. The reward was a stack of various fabrics and a pedal sewing machine. Rupert made himself a skirt.

This was THE single most frustrating moment ever on the show for me ... there is exactly one way I could contribute to my tribe (I went camping for the first time last summer) and it is by sewing them clothes with a pedal sewing machine.  They would never have voted me out after that, on those early seasons when being a provider meant anything.  I would have made a whole Project Runway collection of chic and comfortable island wear.  Or at least a functional pair of pants.  But I could do nothing but sit on my hands and watch Rupert make his terrible skirt and get laughed at by Burton.

Edited October 31, 2018 by KimberStormer

[NutMeg]

Fantastic real life skill, and I'm still both puzzled and amazed that it made one and only one appearance on Survivor. One would think a sewing machine would be more helpful than Doritos. Just thinking of all the contestants' clothes left behind, and even at beginner's level, you could make crazy patchwork pillows and (later) quilts. While KimberStormer would be busy sewing clothes, I would be scouring the area for down, feather, moss, anything to make a nice filling for those clothes or pillows. (And who knows, maybe if the cameras are following me I'll happen about - O-M-G - a HII!!!!). Always remember, people who use the same source of sewed  clothes tend to vote together :) 

[BK1978]

We know what happens when there is a two-way tie at TC.  However, do we know what happens if there is a three-way tie with a nine person jury?  

They cannot do what they did last season and I assume they must have a way for it to work out.  I just cannot think of a fair way to do so.

[SVNBob]

24 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

We know what happens when there is a two-way tie at TC.  However, do we know what happens if there is a three-way tie with a nine person jury?  

They cannot do what they did last season and I assume they must have a way for it to work out.  I just cannot think of a fair way to do so.

They avoid it totally by having an even-numbered jury (either 8 or 10) and the known "3rd place breaks the tie" rule.

There hasn't been a FTC of 3 with a 9 person jury since S24 (despite the close calls of S13 and S21).  The last 9 person jury was in S32, but that was an FTC of 2 (Tony vs. Woo).  Last odd-numbered jury with an FTC of 3 was S32; Michelle (5) vs Aubry (2) vs Tai (0).

And that last one gives them another out; The Juror Remover.  If it turns out that the jury's going to number 9 in a FTC3 season, they'll probably throw that in again to reduce the jury to 8.

[cleo]

I've been watching the Amazon season. I don't understand why Rob voted with Alex, Jenna, and Heidi to take out Deena when he had been saying that she was his ally to get to final two. Because he and Deena would have had the numbers to take out Alex, then Jenna, and once they did so they would have had an easy ride to the end bc everyone else was naive and unstrategic. But he votes Deena out, and then the very next tribal aligns with Matthew and the rest to take out Alex, which was what Deena wanted. So he didn't gain anything and he lost an ally. I understand he may have wanted to take Deena out later and then to a goat to the final, but you do that closer to the end, not when everything is up in the air. 

Other random thoughts:

It didn't bother me that Heidi and Jenna stripped for chocolate, but there was a reward challenge where Jeff asked which one of them would be better in Playboy or something, and it was just gross. The guys vote for Jenna, and Jeff says to Heidi- does that make you want to strut your stuff more Heidi? Like fuck off Jeff.  

It is also interesting seeing how much better emotion is used compared to today. They didn't reveal Jenna's mom had cancer until like ep 10 or something, and it came up naturally bc the letters from home were there. It was painful seeing Jenna break down and then try to hold it together with the letter, and it just felt like a genuine moment. Unlike today, where we would have been beaten over the head with it from Day 1, along with everyone else's sob stories. And I don't mean to be dismissive of people's tragedies today, but the show exploits them now in a way that is very superficial. And now people go on knowing that and playing into it, like this season where there was these sad confessions that I just muted like in episode 2 or something. 

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, cleo said:

It didn't bother me that Heidi and Jenna stripped for chocolate, but there was a reward challenge where Jeff asked which one of them would be better in Playboy or something, and it was just gross. The guys vote for Jenna, and Jeff says to Heidi- does that make you want to strut your stuff more Heidi? Like fuck off Jeff.  

Wow. I don't even remember that as I don't remember, well, almost anything from the earlier seasons lol. Jeff is so gross, but I knew that already.

Quote

And now people go on knowing that and playing into it, like this season where there was these sad confessions that I just muted like in episode 2 or something. 

Besides in the premiere, I don't remember many sad confessionals this season.

[fishcakes]

15 hours ago, cleo said:

It didn't bother me that Heidi and Jenna stripped for chocolate, but there was a reward challenge where Jeff asked which one of them would be better in Playboy or something, and it was just gross. The guys vote for Jenna, and Jeff says to Heidi- does that make you want to strut your stuff more Heidi? Like fuck off Jeff.  

The guys voted for Heidi, not Jenna, so Jeff's "does that make you want to strut your stuff?" was more him asking her if getting the most votes gave her an ego boost rather than if it made her feel like she had to try harder to top Jenna for the men's attention.  I remember it because he also asked her if she was surprised and she said, "yes! Jenna's gorgeous!" which was hilarious because Jenna was clearly mad that she didn't get the most votes and spit out a resentful, "Heidi is ... just as ... gorgeous." Meanwhile, Christy is like, "oh, don't mind me. I'm not even here."

I don't care that Jeff was twitting them about it because they both gave more than one confessional during the game about how the "older, fatter" women were jealous of their looks and cute bodies. They were themselves putting forward the idea that a woman's value is dependent on her looks, so if that comes back to bite them, it's not as if they don't deserve it.

[ProfCrash]

6 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

The guys voted for Heidi, not Jenna, so Jeff's "does that make you want to strut your stuff?" was more him asking her if getting the most votes gave her an ego boost rather than if it made her feel like she had to try harder to top Jenna for the men's attention.  I remember it because he also asked her if she was surprised and she said, "yes! Jenna's gorgeous!" which was hilarious because Jenna was clearly mad that she didn't get the most votes and spit out a resentful, "Heidi is ... just as ... gorgeous." Meanwhile, Christy is like, "oh, don't mind me. I'm not even here."

I don't care that Jeff was twitting them about it because they both gave more than one confessional during the game about how the "older, fatter" women were jealous of their looks and cute bodies. They were themselves putting forward the idea that a woman's value is dependent on her looks, so if that comes back to bite them, it's not as if they don't deserve it.

Yeah, Heidi and Jenna were really awful in their season. I was not happy when Jenna won because she was not a kind person. And all the comments about other women and the stripping and the like just pissed me off. Way to play to an awful stereotype that hurts everyone, women who have to deal with it and men who think that it is ok to think that way because they hear the Heidi and Jenna's comments.

[cleo]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

The guys voted for Heidi, not Jenna, so Jeff's "does that make you want to strut your stuff?" was more him asking her if getting the most votes gave her an ego boost rather than if it made her feel like she had to try harder to top Jenna for the men's attention. 

Wow for some reason I heard it totally opposite, thanks for the correction. Either way just yucky.

 

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Yeah, Heidi and Jenna were really awful in their season.

Yeah I didn't particularly like either one, but Heidi irritated me more than Jenna, and I think Heidi was the one that made the comment about the older women being jealous. Rob also had plenty of gross comments about the women and I couldn't figure out if he was really just a jerk or if he was just playing it up or what. I don't listen to his podcast so I don't know much it. The whole season is kind of awful with the male/female dynamic, I assume because they split the tribes and chose a cast that would really react I don't know.

[ProfCrash]

Rob is fine in his Podcast. He has a different idea about what makes a great player then I do, he likes the characters that make for good TV. I suspect part of it is that he knows that Jeff P like those folks and that the casual viewer likes the big characters and not the more cerebral players. But he treats people well and is not a dick.

[Mark2]

Hi all...This season is so good that I'm considering watching some of the many seasons that I didn't watch.  That's every single one from 3-36.  I know a big fan of the show who has watched them all, and he recommends the following top seasons:

7. Pearl Islands.  He described this season as "forgettable" at first, but put it in the top when he looked it up.

8. All Stars.  "Decent"

19. Samoa.  Originally, didn't think it stood out until looking online.

22. Redemption Island.  "Good"

26. Caramoan (new vs prior players).  "Interesting"

35. Heroes/Healers/Hustlers.  "Unusual"

He also recommends:

13. Cook Islands (divided by ethnicity).  "Don't know what to say"

27. Blood vs. Water.  Enthusiastic about liking this one.

28. Cagayan (Brain/Brawn/Beauty).  "Decent" season

31. Cambodia (audience selection).  A good one, but nothing in particular stands out.

33. Millenials vs. Gen X.  "Interesting"

34. Game Changers.  "The name pushed people to act differently"

36. Ghost Island.  Having Ghost Island upped his interest factor.

I also thought 12/Panama (divided by gender), 20/Heroes/Villains and 30/Worlds Apart sound like interesting concepts, but they weren't on his list.  The problem is that he didn't remember them all well enough to really rate them relative to each other with any accuracy.  Hence the "top" group and runners-up. 

I was just wondering if anybody here would like to share their opinion on what order you'd put these 16 seasons.  Obviously, I'm just requesting that any posts that quote this one not include spoilers.  I know virtually nothing about any, even who is on what season.  I was thinking I'd limit myself to only watching the best ones.