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Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken


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In the aftermath of HHH, the question needs to be asked: will history basically shove it into a deep hole and pour concrete over it, like Thailand and Nicaragua?* And does the winner deserve to be at the bottom of the list of champions, even below the likes of Bob? For me, respectively, yes and no.

*Most people pile on Thailand, and I hated Nicaragua, for reasons I have recently stated. Plug in your own disliked seasons!

ETA: Once again, I liked Bob, and I was good with him winning. Your mileage may vary.

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HHH will definitely rank as a bottom 10 season for me.  Maybe over time and with whatever ridiculous themes and hundreds of idols and advantages the next few seasons bring I will look back and think it wasn't so bad.  But it will take a lot to get it out of the depths of Redemption Island, Worlds Apart, Caramoan, Thailand, South Pacific, Exile Island, Vanuatu, All Stars, and Thailand for me.  I think this could have been a somewhat decent season, but I think the pre-jurors might have made it a little more interesting if they had survived the merge, and some of the jurors/finalists gone pre-merge (or at least earlier).  With the pre-juror group, I find it very unlikely Ben would have made it to the final 5 (but hey, production might have stepped in and made it happen).

I can't blame Ben for production interference, even if that last idol he found might as well have literally been handed to him.  It reminded me of Adam finding that idol during the finale of MvsGX.  He wasn't my pick for the winner, and I would have much rather had a final 4 of Ali/Desi/Lauren/Devon.  But he beat Chrissy, who I did not want to see win.  It's been awhile since I've disliked a Survivor player that much.  What's ruining the series isn't so much the over abundance of idols, advantages, and twists, but when/where they appear, and who they benefit.  It's like last season; Tai finds all his idols at camp, but poor Troyzan (who really might have needed his) had to grab his at the IC.  They don't even make finding the idols complicated anymore unless it is at a challenge.  I liked it back during the day when idols were scarce, advantages were pretty much non existent, and despite having idols in the game, there was still elements of strategy at play.  Now, it's basically if you don't have an idol, you don't know what to do with yourself.

And I don't get what happened with the reunion show.  Why did it start so late, and why was there barely anything to it?  This isn't like Caramoan where they were obviously trying to avoid the Brandon situation, which actually made it even more obvious.  I don't know, since Probst became a producer on this show, it has gone downhill.  

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On 12/15/2017 at 10:03 PM, KimberStormer said:

I feel like I read a post-game interview with Brenda where she said she threw a pity vote Chase's way because she felt bad he was going to get shut out, only to learn that someone else (I forget who...Alina?) had done the exact same thing.  Without that he wouldn't be even in smelling distance of the win.  I honestly have never grasped the "FABIO WORST WINNER EVER" sentiment.  He did everything exactly how we're always saying to do: he didn't make BIG ASS MOVES, he had a fantastic social game, he played a character to at least some degree which threw off all the votes he should have been getting at the merge as very clearly the most fit young dude, he played the jury like fiddles during the last three or four tribals (effortlessly making Sash and Chase look like absolute assholes) where he also turned it on at challenges and dominated them just at the right moment.

This is all 100 percent true, and a great defense of Fabio's victory.  Survivor has drummed it into people's heads that strategy is the key element of any game, when it ultimately all just comes down to being more likable than the other one or two people you're sitting with in the final tribal council.

Janu got to vote in Palau, so there isn't any "quitters don't get to serve on the jury" rule in place.  NaOnka and Kelly were certainly allowed to cast votes, and Fabio's win was therefore entirely valid.  If they aren't on the jury, Brenda and Alina don't toss those pity votes to Chase, and Fabio still wins.

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4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

In the aftermath of HHH, the question needs to be asked: will history basically shove it into a deep hole and pour concrete over it, like Thailand and Nicaragua?* And does the winner deserve to be at the bottom of the list of champions, even below the likes of Bob? For me, respectively, yes and no.

*Most people pile on Thailand, and I hated Nicaragua, for reasons I have recently stated. Plug in your own disliked seasons!

ETA: Once again, I liked Bob, and I was good with him winning. Your mileage may vary.

It is, basically another late 20-30's season of survivor. 
#BIGMOVES #LIVEVOTES #EVERYONEIMMUNE. 

 

and i really don't care for it but it's not changing because Jeff Probst talks to people on the street and that's what they want. 
I feel i've been saying this forever, i would have been happier with a Chrissy win. she def. had her moments, but i legitimately for the life of me don't understand the vitriol towards her. she played a hard, aggressive game, and some of the strategy was there (albeit. way late)  I mean did she put syrup over her backstabbing behaviour or not liking people (or being a pouty baby when she was on the bottom) - no. but i don't think that's her personality.  but i totally get YMMV. 

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7 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Janu got to vote in Palau, so there isn't any "quitters don't get to serve on the jury" rule in place.  NaOnka and Kelly were certainly allowed to cast votes, and Fabio's win was therefore entirely valid.  If they aren't on the jury, Brenda and Alina don't toss those pity votes to Chase, and Fabio still wins.

I believe that Janu was "convinced" to leave the game by Probst, who probably wanted Stephenie to remain in the game and try to pull off the greatest miracle in the show's history. It also helped that Janu was not really fit to play the game for that long, even though she was on Koror, the first/last/only name you need to know about tribal dominance. Just my opinion. While I don't see Ben getting stuff literally handed to him, I am convinced that Probst will play favorites on and off-camera.

While I'm thinking: should the difficulty of finding idols increase, should it be referred to as "Ben-proofing"? I've been saying "Russell-proofing" for years. At least nobody just handed Ben an idol, JT. May a copy of his letter be used in Ghost Island.

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11 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

May a copy of his letter be used in Ghost Island.

Ha! 

I actually liked Fabio's win at the time, even though I was disappointed he didn't arrive at FTC and out himself as a Survivor mastermind who'd been playing a character to avoid being targeted, like some speculated he might be at the time. He was certainly better than Chase or Sash. 

This season ranks pretty low for me. The pre-merge was tiresome and while the game itself got interesting after the merge the players were pretty universally awful. And then the twist, which... sigh, and an obnoxious* winner. Bottom 10 definitely, probably bottom 5. 

*I want to say undeserving, but I actually think of that F7 or so, he was the most deserving, just because he kept playing and the rest of them were too stupid to either spilt votes or try to stop him finding an idol, and I have a pretty strong belief that if you got to the end and got the most votes, then you deserve to win, and have been saying that for years and years. But in this case the twist puts a pretty huge asterisk next to his win for me - he deserved to win, maybe, but he really shouldn't have been in the F3 at all. 

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11 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Ha! 

I actually liked Fabio's win at the time, even though I was disappointed he didn't arrive at FTC and out himself as a Survivor mastermind who'd been playing a character to avoid being targeted, like some speculated he might be at the time. He was certainly better than Chase or Sash. 

This season ranks pretty low for me. The pre-merge was tiresome and while the game itself got interesting after the merge the players were pretty universally awful. And then the twist, which... sigh, and an obnoxious* winner. Bottom 10 definitely, probably bottom 5. 

*I want to say undeserving, but I actually think of that F7 or so, he was the most deserving, just because he kept playing and the rest of them were too stupid to either spilt votes or try to stop him finding an idol, and I have a pretty strong belief that if you got to the end and got the most votes, then you deserve to win, and have been saying that for years and years. But in this case the twist puts a pretty huge asterisk next to his win for me - he deserved to win, maybe, but he really shouldn't have been in the F3 at all. 

 

i will die if JT's letter is on Survivor.: Ghost Island. like pee my pants laughing die. 

I don't know what season on on my "i hate it it's poop" list. (like i know i like some seasons that y'all don't like, (hi Thailand). I know Worlds Apart is pretty damned low. but i think simply due to this twist. this is flat out dead last. 

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1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

Ha! 

I actually liked Fabio's win at the time, even though I was disappointed he didn't arrive at FTC and out himself as a Survivor mastermind who'd been playing a character to avoid being targeted, like some speculated he might be at the time.

Me too!  I was a little bummed that he turned out to be even more of a surfer airhead in real life, but I was still pretty happy with his win.  I thought he kind of was a nice antidote to the the Survivor-evil-mastermind approach.

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I’m re watching Vanuatu and made it through the first two episodes.  It shows how much idols have become a part of this show, because after Lopevi (men’s tribe) lost the first IC, no thanks to Chris, there was a shot of him walking off on his own at camp.  I kept waiting for the a TH of him saying “I gotta find the idol.”  Then at TC when Jeff was about to reveal the votes I was waiting for the “if anyone has the hidden immunity Idol....”

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I have a really bad memory.  Not sure what season I started watching Survivor but it wasn't the early years.  Have seen various clips of early years and maybe even went back and watched a season or 2 but.....again can't remember.  So, I retired last year, its winter and I'm bored.  So I decided to watch, ?rewatch? Season 1.  Mostly it seems pretty new and I liked it A LOT.  Will probably be my favorite season.  Amazed at how slow it seemed and how I really got a look at everyone.  There were only 2 less players than now so how does that work?  Now we hardly see half the initial players.  I mean seriously if felt like it "watched" so differently. 

The cast was really great.  All enthusiastic about this new thing, none playing for their next reality tv experience.  Struggling with ethics, morals, who am I if I play this way.  All pretty genuine, Bob was the onlly one that was a bit out there.  If anyone was playing for the camera I kinda wonder if it was Rudy.  I mean, during the in the woods memory game, every response was I don't know.  Seriously?  

I really liked Sue and somehow I thought I disliked Sue.  I google a lot while watching and see that she actually guest hosted the Kathy and Regis show and is considered to have done well, as well as some others.  I liked Rich, he was sort of arrogant but mostly in a quiet well thought out sort of way.  Probably the seasons with the most older folks.   Challenges look almost folky in comparison to now but I liked that.  

I may google too much and miss things.  Not sure what the deal was with Wigglesworth.  My impression from secret scenes is that she did decide to play her own game and not be in the alliance but never told them that.  Her first non alliance vote was the throwaway vote for Sean.  After that she didn't have a problem with voting the same vote as the alliance...?  So it wasn't a bit deal.  But her attitude changed so her alliance thought she was stabbing them in the back even though her votes didn't reflect that and then at the end she.....tried to get back in the with the alliance?  Or?  

If anyone has followed interviews and disucssions over the years and can encapsulate a clarification that without me having to read miles of forum posts I would be grateful.  

I had also come under the impression that Sue's rat speech was calling out Rich as a snake in a bad way but apparently that is not the case.   It was more about calling Wigglesworth the rat, boy she never forgave her for whatever backstabbing she seems to think happened. 

Anyway, I loved it but I know you can't go back.  Once strategy elements were out of the bag the game is changed forever which is too bad.  Unless they purposefully got a cast of - yea we've never watched - which would be great IMO.  Since casting trawls for mactors they could trawl for a whole season of people with no TVs too.  

Apparently seasons 2-11 are only available on CBS access so I may do a month free trial and watch nothing but survivor for a whole month.  I already pay a buttload for cable and netflix and amazon prime and acorn and do not feel like paying CBS for 1 show.  

Edited by marys1000
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5 hours ago, marys1000 said:

I have a really bad memory.  Not sure what season I started watching Survivor but it wasn't the early years.  Have seen various clips of early years and maybe even went back and watched a season or 2 but.....again can't remember.  So, I retired last year, its winter and I'm bored.  So I decided to watch, ?rewatch? Season 1.  Mostly it seems pretty new and I liked it A LOT.  Will probably be my favorite season.  Amazed at how slow it seemed and how I really got a look at everyone.  There were only 2 less players than now so how does that work?  Now we hardly see half the initial players.  I mean seriously if felt like it "watched" so differently. 

The cast was really great.  All enthusiastic about this new thing, none playing for their next reality tv experience.  Struggling with ethics, morals, who am I if I play this way.  All pretty genuine, Bob was the onlly one that was a bit out there.  If anyone was playing for the camera I kinda wonder if it was Rudy.  I mean, during the in the woods memory game, every response was I don't know.  Seriously?  

I really liked Sue and somehow I thought I disliked Sue.  I google a lot while watching and see that she actually guest hosted the Kathy and Regis show and is considered to have done well, as well as some others.  I liked Rich, he was sort of arrogant but mostly in a quiet well thought out sort of way.  Probably the seasons with the most older folks.   Challenges look almost folky in comparison to now but I liked that.  

I may google too much and miss things.  Not sure what the deal was with Wigglesworth.  My impression from secret scenes is that she did decide to play her own game and not be in the alliance but never told them that.  Her first non alliance vote was the throwaway vote for Sean.  After that she didn't have a problem with voting the same vote as the alliance...?  So it wasn't a bit deal.  But her attitude changed so her alliance thought she was stabbing them in the back even though her votes didn't reflect that and then at the end she.....tried to get back in the with the alliance?  Or?  

If anyone has followed interviews and disucssions over the years and can encapsulate a clarification that without me having to read miles of forum posts I would be grateful.  

I had also come under the impression that Sue's rat speech was calling out Rich as a snake in a bad way but apparently that is not the case.   It was more about calling Wigglesworth the rat, boy she never forgave her for whatever backstabbing she seems to think happened. 

Anyway, I loved it but I know you can't go back.  Once strategy elements were out of the bag the game is changed forever which is too bad.  Unless they purposefully got a cast of - yea we've never watched - which would be great IMO.  Since casting trawls for mactors they could trawl for a whole season of people with no TVs too.  

Apparently seasons 2-11 are only available on CBS access so I may do a month free trial and watch nothing but survivor for a whole month.  I already pay a buttload for cable and netflix and amazon prime and acorn and do not feel like paying CBS for 1 show.  

I always liken Borneo to a TV pilot; good enough to get picked up, but they changed things from one season to the next.  I re-watched Borneo and Outback recently, and I felt like it was an entirely different show.  Let me first say, I miss the music that used to play during the show.  Minor point, but I actually have the Survivor soundtrack released after season 1, and there was something catchy, dramatic, and exciting about the background music they used back then.  The challenges were simple, but not any better than the numerous endurance challenges they have no, or the dig up puzzle pieces/knock stuff down/put the puzzle together challenges that pop up 20 times a season.  The old school challenges kind of gave me a laugh at how simple they were in construction.  I definitely miss the simpler rewards, and the fact that it felt more like they were surviving.  I'd love to see an old school season where players from pre-idol seasons get to play with idols and advantages, and a new school season where players from post HvsV (where idols and advantages really started coming into play) have to go back to basics and don't have those protections.

In terms of Kelly...I believe it was a mix of not wanting to be in an alliance anymore, and trying to win over the Pagong people since they would be on the jury.  Really, though, the only two Pagong people she didn't vote off were Colleen and Jenna (which is why Sue's comment about her not voting with the alliance after Gretchen got voted off was inaccurate, because she voted for Greg, Gervase, and Sean).  I don't know if she was trying to get back with her alliance or not, but after Colleen got voted off, Sean was the next logical choice since she won immunity.  Kelly could have thrown her vote to someone else as a throwaway, but it wouldn't have mattered.  I could never tell if she wanted to have some credit for her own game, or genuinely just didn't like what being in an alliance was all about.  

Sue did try to reach out to Kelly after the show to apologize, and had even sent her letters and gifts, but Kelly wanted no part of that, so Sue chalked it up to her being a spoiled brat and moved on.

Totally agree about the strategy elements being out of the game.  Now it's all about idols and advantages.

Edited by LadyChatts
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50 minutes ago, marys1000 said:

Speaking of Kelly W Did you guys see this?  

Did this show air?  Its crzy that Kelly W And Joe Anglin hooked up for a tv show

What I find even more crazy is that Kelly was off the grid for so long, comes back for SC (and barely gets noticed), and suddenly has a taste for fame.  As for their show Mana, it never aired.  They were actually looking for a TV outlet but none picked them up. Then they were going to release it online, but were trying to make it better quality.  It seemed like overnight those two quit having anything to do with each other.  That was around the time S34 premiered.  

I follow Kelly on Instagram, and it kind of looked like she was still trying to pursue something on her own (there were some photos she took when she went to the Marshall Islands on a clean water project and she was tagging various networks in it, like her and Joe used to do).  

Edited by LadyChatts
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8 hours ago, marys1000 said:

Its crzy that Kelly W And Joe Anglin hooked up for a tv show

Rumor has it that the last 4 words of that sentence are superfluous, or replacing "for" with "because of" is also accurate.

In non-rumor news, there's now something called "the Yates Hypothesis", named for the originator, Courtney Yates (aka the first Survivor stick figure, aka the rice to Sandra's beans, aka the Survivor Honey Badger) from China and HvV.  Before the HvHvH finale, she opined on Andrea's PeopleTV Survivor webshow a theory about F3s that seems to hold water.

The Yates Hypothesis states that in Survivor F3s where there is a clearly allied pair versus an outsider (as seen by the members of the jury), the outsider always wins.  Looking at most seasons with an F3, including the latest one, she does appear to be correct.

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14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just looked through and it's true in some cases, but not in others,

Which seasons do you see it as not true?  Those may be ones with a less clear pair, or all of the F3 were part of the same alliance.

For example; the Cook Islands F3 were 3 members of the Aitu4.  But even though Yul and Becky were a pair and Ozzy an outsider, the jury saw all 3 as a single unit.  Conversely, the most recent F3 had a clear pair in Chrissy and Ryan, with Ben a major outsider (of his own doing), and the jury was well aware of that separation.

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I would've thought a "Yates Hypothesis" would involve a malnourished body being able to feed off internal snark. That's why Janu through in the towel .  . . she didn't need to slag people in confessionals. Meanwhile, you could have played Courtney's ribs like a xylophone, and she wouldn't be any more tired as the others.

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Kelly W may still have warrants out on her.... she’s not a good person in real life, she ripped off someone I know for a good bit of money.

Remember Sara “Dawson”, the girl who grabbed Probst and kissed him when her torch was snuffed? She and her husband have twin babies.

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Funny115: Jenn calls Dan Foley "Dumbass." Gotta love how Mario starts it: "It's episode ten of Worlds Apart, and Jenn Brown no longer has any fucks to give." Remember, if we ever compile a list of utter pantloads, Dan has to be at or near the top.

While I'm thinking about people I can't stand . . . one of the guys running the new season of The Amazing Race is Shawn Marion. He won a title with the Dallas Mavericks in 2011, playing in 21 postseason games . . . . which is 21 more than Scot Pollard had when his Celtics won the title in 2008. I try not to think of how awful he was. No, I think of him looking at Tai for the second part of Super Idol, and Tai shaking his head. So awesome. Scot is totally on the pantload short list, right?!?

Edited by Lantern7
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HHH forever will be "Worlds Apart, with nicer people," to me.

Just finished rewatching San Juan Del Sur, which is one of my favorite seasons ever, and I found such a balm after Cagayan (unpopular opinion: blech!). It showed you didn't have to micromanage the whole game in order to win, and I loved Natalie's "improvised on the fly"-yet-calculated moves that got her to the end. She may have been hoping to vote out Jon early, but she kept working with him til she no longer needed him, and then slit his throat. Her "mistake" vote for Alec, using Keith to blindside Jon, then stabbing Baylor in the back and breaking up the last loved ones pair ... she's one of my favorite winners ever. She volunteered to go to Exile Island, she found an idol (and played it perfectly, for Jaclyn), she won challenges, she had a great social game. I don't care if she was annoying on Amazing Race -- she was a badass on Survivor, to me.

And having just watched this, I can categorically say that Missy and Chrissy (from HHH) were polar freaking opposites. Chrissy never mentioned being a mom til the end; Missy was all about being a mom. Missy wasn't great in challenges (and broke her foot at the end); Chrissy was a challenge beast. Outside of her daughter, Baylor, Missy formed an alliance with a stronger guy (Jon), and was pretty much wrapped around his little finger; Chrissy formed an alliance with a weaker guy (Ryan), who was pretty much wrapped around her little finger. Like, there could not be more polar opposite players than Missy and Chrissy.

Edited by Eolivet
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HHH was definitely similar to WA. I thought WA had better characters but HHH had a more interesting season. It was interesting to watch the differences in editing styles. I thought WA would have more highly regarded if they didn't put so much focus on Mike.

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56 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I think Hannah played the better game but failed at selling herself. Adam did a fine job of defending his game and was up against the right competition. He is not a stand out to me but he is not awful either. 

I mostly agree.

But to me he is awful. Just an awful, awful personality who played a middling-at-best game. He's probably only above Bob to me on the list of winners.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

Parvati posted on her Instagram that she and whatisface are having a baby girl!

She'd been hinting about a big announcement for a little while.  And while some people thought that it might be her appearing on Celebrity Big Brother, a pregnancy (minus some gender speculation) was also in the rumor mill.

Congrats to them.

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If they do have an all winners season not only do I want to see a woman win but I hope that woman is Michele Fitzgerald.  That would literally make Jeff's head explode.

Bringing this over from the media topic, as it's centered around a past season:

Forgive me if this dead horse topic has been beaten, but refresh my memory as to why Probst hates Michele so much? I wasn't a fan of her win either (I was Team Aubry), but it doesn't seem to be his typical "useless woman beats my Alpha male mancrushes," because the other two options in Kaoh Rong were ... Aubry and Tai? Not exactly Alpha males. In fact, none of his Alpha males even got close to the final 3. So, is there another reason he dislikes Michele? If he had this hate-on for Sarah, I'd get it -- she beat his beloved Culpepper. But this seems like atypical hate to me, if only because the other options weren't exactly strong men.

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I would also like to see where Jeff said anything to indicate he hates Michele. I've never seen anything that makes me think he doesn't like her, although I didn't read too many post Kaoh Rong season interviews because it wasn't that interesting a season to me, so I may have missed it.

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In Tina's defense, she won the $1 million in 2001. That was almost seventeen years ago. I mean, Katie's hospital bills from walking into stuff alone had to take out at least $100K.

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Sandra continues to work at the Bank. Sandra has flat out said that the winnings are nice but not enough to live and retire on. She has kids as well and they were disappointed that they did not get a ton of new, and expensive, toys.

One million dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is not enough for most folks to live off of for the rest of their lives. With proper investment it will make retirement that much nicer but it does not take much to burn through that cash.

Tina might also enjoy working and the social interaction that comes with it. It could be that the pay check means that all her winnings stay invested so that she will have a nicer retirement.

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Tina was pretty candid about having spent the million quickly. As I recall she said she paid off her mortgage and the mortgage on her best friend's house, she also bought several motorcycles (heh, but not one for Colby, although that's always been a matter of dispute), and had some cosmetic surgery. I think it was only a year or so after she won that she said all the money was gone.

I don't know about more recent winners, but in those early seasons when winners got a lot more attention, Sandra, Brian Heidik, and Amber seemed to be the smartest about their winnings, saying they would save and invest it. Tina and Rupert seemed to be the most eager to spend it, although at least Tina got her house and Rupert got his troubled teen sham foundation or whatever it is and also paid off his mom's mortgage (also cluelessly admitting in interviews that he committed tax fraud while doing so, though I don't know if there were any consequences). In terms of who made a mess of their million dollar payday, though, no one rivals Hatch.

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Funny115: Sophie is not an Adam Sandler fan. Mario throws a lot of shade, and brings in a tweet from Albert at the very end that makes so much sense in retrospect.

On 3/8/2018 at 6:04 AM, KimberStormer said:

Tina also had to pay for her son's funeral, so I feel like she deserves us being nice.

Completely forgot that, completely feel like a dick for forgetting. Basically, my mind went to Funny115 and the essay about how Katie was accident-prone.

 

On 3/8/2018 at 12:09 PM, cooksdelight said:

They only get half of the million. The CA game show tax takes half.

You'd think the prize money would go up a little. Aside from the season of TAR where one team had a chance at $2 million, none of the big shows have adjusted the grand prize.

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On 1/27/2018 at 12:21 PM, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: Leif doesn't have much to say. Seriously, four confessionals in ten episodes. How is that possible? I have a few theories, but I'd feel like a dick saying them here.

Leif's ex-wife Briana was/is? one of the stars of Little Women: LA, and Leif appeared on it a few years ago. He came across as one boring dude. 

On 2/15/2018 at 9:35 PM, Bazinga said:

This story is so sad! I'm no Jenna fan, but no one deserves this. I hope she gets the help she clearly needs.

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Ha, I had forgotten about that SJDS moment.  That isn't a season I remember much about, and I don't know why I feel like I should.

On the subject of that season, Wes Nale got married this past weekend.  Some of the former Survivors I follow on IG were posting pics/videos from his wedding (those in attendance I saw were Natalie, Missy, and Alec from SJDS, and Joe, Sierra, and Mike from WA).  Meg from Big Brother was there, too, since her and Mike are dating.

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