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Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

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A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for current season and episode topics, character topics and other places for show-related talk.

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I'm watching Panama for the firs time now.  I'm 6 episodes in.  My question is if quitting smoking is the only thing causing Shane to be a volatile south end of a horse going north, or if there is something else going on.

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Possibly he was quitting something else as well as smoking.  It's been suggested, anyway. 

 

God I love Shane, and the whole Casaya tribe.  If only there was a way to watch Panama without any Terry in it.

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Thanks, KimberStormer.

 

I don't have a problem with Terry yet, but based on the dislike of him online, I won't be surprised if I do have a problem with him by the end of watching this season.

 

Just based on what I've seen, Dan is my favorite so far.  I wish he had at least made the merge.

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I liked Dan too, but he was hilarious to me because he kept sharing the "secret" of how he was an astronaut in the exact same way with everyone out there. "Now, don't tell anyone, but as it turns out, I got to do a little more than just work on the space shuttle. It turns out I got to fly on it." I was waiting for someone to say, "yes, we know Dan. You've already told us that six times."

 

I didn't mind Terry. He could have used his idol better, and his conversation with Cirie about an alliance right after the merge was ridiculous, but I didn't find him insufferable the way every one else seems to. I thought Aras was more smug and arrogant than Terry but with far less justification. Aras was damned lucky he didn't vote off Cirie as he planned (and announced) because he rode her coattails to the end. I liked Aras in Blood vs. Water, but Panama Aras is obnoxious.

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Here's my vote for season 25 as best ever.  A great cast of sneaky, double-dealing back-stabbers... the single top episode (for me) in Survivor history (the one where Malcolm and Abi both revealed their HIIs at tribal)... a fantastic winner who despite being stuck on an awful tribe never was in real danger of going home...

 

... and in the eye candy department, wonderful bikini shots of RC that made me deeply regret her departure. 

 

ETA: fishcakes, I felt the same as you about Terry and Aras. 

Edited by kikaha
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Agreed with you, fishcakes, about Aras.  I really don't like the way he talked down to Bruce about the Zen garden, especially after his (IMHO) ridiculous "put your hands close together to generate fire" crap or whatever that was.  Also, Aras' comment/attitude about being the youngest but most mature and having to babysit everyone else.  I also didn't really care for Aras in BvW.

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Whoops, I'm supposed to be taking a break from all Survivor-related program activities until the next season, I shouldn't have posted.  Anyway, I don't like Aras either; yes, he is also obnoxious and arrogant (although I'm glad he was there to be Cirie's sucker; she was one fire-making challenge away from victory.)  But I have a deep visceral loathing for Terry, compounded and multiplied by Probst and the editors casting him as the Great White Hero.  Aras was just another flawed ingredient in the transcendent lunatic stew of Casaya.

 

My disgust for Terry is not rational or anything, it's just my own feeling, so I don't expect other people to share it.  OK back to my abstinence from Survivor chat.

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Finished watching Panama.  I really didn't have a problem with Terry.  Yes, he was somewhat arrogant and self-righteous, but so are a lot of survivors, so I'm willing to pretty much give him a pass on that.  And just in that season, Aras was far, far worse, IMHO.

 

I'm wondering why Danielle was a villain in HvV.  She didn't seem particularly villainous in Panama.

 

I was most pleasantly surprised by how I felt about Cirie.  I didn't care for her in Micronesia and HvV, but I found myself liking her in Panama.

 

Dan remains my fave from Panama, then Bruce.

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But I have a deep visceral loathing for Terry, compounded and multiplied by Probst and the editors casting him as the Great White Hero.

 

A hundred times this.

 

I can ignore that he was a poor player who completely misused his HII, limiting his entire strategy to winning challenges and making silly attempts at deals with people better positioned than him. But for me his smarmy arrogance transcends that of any other player to appear on Survivor because it wasn't cut with anything else. With Russell/Rupert you have that camp factor, the Ozzy/Aras type are young and immature, while players like Lex and Jean Robert are clearly delusional or insane.

 

But Terry's superiority was positively palpable. Add his distinterest in aligning with women, his assertion that wives trump mothers, and the fact that he's the posterchild for White America and you have a recipe for an uncomfortable viewing experience. Like KimberStormer I can admit that a lot of Terry's ickiness is a personal reaction that is rooted more in an amorphous "feeling" he gives me, but I wouldn't call it irrational: he is clearly a douche.

 

 

 

I'm wondering why Danielle was a villain in HvV.

 

There are theories that she was swapped with Candice to limit too many previous allies on the same tribes, but I've also heard that Parvati was swapped with Candice for the same reason. My theory on Danielle is that they wanted some drama between her and Shane and just left her on the Villains after he was bumped for Russell.

 

She was an aggressive personality in Panama, but I think her "villainy" is chalked up to betraying our All-American Hero Terry. Which makes her a hero to me, but there ya have it.

Edited by Oholibamah
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Thanks for the info about Danielle, @Oholibamah.  I also wasn't aware that Shane was originally supposed to be on HvV.  Bummer.  I probably would've enjoyed him much more than Russhole, even though I hadn't seen Panama yet.  But of course Probie's man-crush Russhole had to be on HvV.

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I've been rewatching Pearl Islands...  I had forgotten what an arrogant, self-righteous bully Rupert really was.  When he got in Jon's face after the TC when Jon voted for him, I honestly thought he was going to throttle him.  Andrew Savage is another piece of work from that season.  Talk about arrogant too!  At least he got his karmic kick in the pants when he was first out post-merge and didn't make the jury because Lill flipped.  And speaking of Lill, what was with her constant pouting and scowling?  What a sourpuss!  Based on what I've seen of her, I certainly wouldn't allow my kids to be in any scout troop of hers, if I had kids.  Looking forward to the dead grandma episode--I've only seen this season once before and I don't remember Probie's TC treatment of Jon in that ep.

 

ETA:  Finished watching the season yesterday, and picked up on something Probie said at the reunion show...  He said that the only 2 rules in Survivor are no hurting other players and no sharing the money.  I believe I've seen other people mention how in the very next season they let Rob M slither by the money rule by proposing to Ambuh.  I picked up more on the no hurting others rule and how lax that has become.  Case in point:  NaOnka pushing over Kelly B.  IMHO, NaOnka should have been immediately disqualified and removed from camp.  Instead they rewarded her by allowing her to be on the jury as a quitter, probably because they thought her garbage was good TV.  How the mighty has fallen, IMHO.

Edited by KnitWit
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NaOnka pushing over Kelly B.  IMHO, NaOnka should have been immediately disqualified and removed from camp.  Instead they rewarded her by allowing her to be on the jury as a quitter, probably because they thought her garbage was good TV.  How the mighty has fallen, IMHO.

 

I think this gets blown out of proportion due to Naonka's behavior afterwards ("I'm gonna throw that leg in the fire"). They both went for the clue and things got mutually heated - I would hesitate to even say that NaOnka was any more aggressive than Kelly. It was not dissimilar to the Danielle/Amanda scuffle during Treasure Island or the myriad physical challenges they have which, while not at camp, are also for Immunity. Kelly is a kickass woman and I doubt she sees herself as some sort of innocent victim.

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Just finished watching Marquesas...  How in the world did Rob M. ever get invited back as an all star given his clownish play that resulted in him not even making the jury?  Was he a substitute for someone who couldn't play in all stars?

 

I was pretty impressed with Vecepia.  What was with Sean and his slavery victim mentality?  Poor Paschal getting screwed by the rock draw when he didn't have any votes against him!

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Just finished watching Marquesas...  How in the world did Rob M. ever get invited back as an all star given his clownish play that resulted in him not even making the jury?  Was he a substitute for someone who couldn't play in all stars?

 

I was pretty impressed with Vecepia.  What was with Sean and his slavery victim mentality?  Poor Paschal getting screwed by the rock draw when he didn't have any votes against him!

Am sure I read somewhere probably TWOP that Sean was originally invited back but declined. Even in Marquesas Rob still gave great interviews and for all his clowning around he had great awareness of what was going on in the game.

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Rob was playing a decent game in Marquesas, but the tribe shuffle killed him and then he kind of panicked, I think, losing his composure and fighting with John. Even so, he was the one who clued Kathy in as to what would happen after the merge, but she was so in love with being a victim, she wouldn't actually do anything about it. It took Sean and Vee working on Paschal and Neleh and then Neleh deciding to pull the trigger on Nurse John to upset the power balance. Otherwise, we'd probably have seen an F2 of John and Tammy.

 

I can't feel too bad for Paschal. He put all his faith in Neleh, and she was the one who said drawing rocks was the fair way to do it. No one would have faulted him for switching his vote to Neleh at that point, but he went along with the rock draw. (Well, no one in the audience would have faulted him -- I'm sure that particular jury would have given him hell for it had he made it to FTC.) Also, Paschal turned out to be a garbage person, so I'm glad he didn't get further than he did.

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After reading fishcakes' post, I googled Paschal to find out why he would be called a "garbage person..."  I read about his affair, and I now agree with fishcakes and I recant my "poor Paschal" statement.

 

I still don't think that Rob M should have been invited back, but I admit that some of that stems from my loathing of him from his later seasons of "Survivor" and "Amazing Race" appearances.

 

I also googled Brian Heidik and now agree with those who have a negative opinion of him.

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I am re-watching Heroes vs. Villains on Amazon Prime.  If I ever doubt that Stephen was robbed in Tocantins (which I never have yet), then Heroes vs. Villains is all the proof I will need to talk myself off the ledge. 

 

And Sandra is awesome.

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IMHO, Stephen robbed himself with his dismal FTC performance.

 

I finished watching The Amazon earlier this week and have now seen every season at least once.  In Amazon, could Jenna and Heidi have been much more shallow and horrid?  And Rob C was quite the horny toad.  I had difficulty seeing how much of a strategic player he was because he spent so much time obsessing about women.

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There is no doubt in my mind that JT deserved it in Tocantins; he dominated the social game like I don't think I've ever seen before or since.  They adored him out there.  You had people literally saying "I want him to win, not me".  Stephen's a likeable, smart guy, and he played really well, but there's pretty much no comparison to me.  I think JT did a ton of smart things in the game as well.  At FTC he thanked Coach for "setting the tone" or something like that--and I think that was not just buttering up Coach, but sincere, because I think it was entirely in JT's interest to let Coach and his "honor, integrity, the strong should prosper" ethos dominate the conversation.  And it did; even like Sierra, who hated Coach, was expressing herself in terms of "I am too strong!" not "Strength is completely irrelevant in this game Coach you don't understand what you're even playing!"  JT let Coach run with that, because in any other game of Survivor, he'd be voted out instantly as a threat; but under the Coach regime, it was only natural and appropriate that he should get far.  And of course JT completely and utterly outplayed Stephen in the FTC--even though it would have been a coronation anyway, he kept playing and playing hard, undermining Stephen's confidence, acting wounded and hurt until Stephen was apologizing to him just for, like, being there.  Even just taking Stephen was a great, counterintuitive move--Erinn would be 'objectively' easier to beat, but if anyone was going to cut through the Coach bullshit, it would be her, and JT got a lot of jury points for his loyalty and integrity in keeping his nerd sidekick.  I actually sort of wish there had been more emphasis on the fact that this was all strategy, because it made JT seem like he didn't get it, but in fact it was all for the benefit of the jury, as we know now.

 

I personally like JT's game in HvV a lot--he realized that he had to play completely differently, because this was the kind of group who would vote him out quickly, extra-quickly, in fact, because it was an All-Stars and these were aggressive, strong players.  He used Tom to get rid of Cirie, a well-known Survivor big game hunter; then he turned right around and got rid of Tom, the Hero most like himself, who could fill the niche he needed to fill as a challenge winner and natural leader.  He went for a big crazy move with the idol handoff partly, I'm sure, because he wanted a spectacular move for his FTC resume (little did he know that he was giving one to Parvati instead, though it didn't do her much good) and partly because he's just a big showy creative player, which I love about him.  To me that merge showdown between him and Parv should have been a winner-defining moment--they both took a huge game-changing risk which should have either won them the game or sent them to Ponderosa; where JT's game goes sour for me is that he was a shitty, partisan, sexist jury member.  (Should we consider their jury performance as part of their Survivor game?  I think we should.)  Unfortunately there was no question that he would ever vote for Parvati, and that sucks, because they were very similar and she got the better of him, and it was in my opinion small of him to not acknowledge it.

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I haven't watched a full season of Survivor in a long time. However, Casaya has to be my favorite tribe ever they were so entertaining and they dominated! The best part is the fact they all chose each other. It wasn't the producers putting them all together.

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Shane talking on his island Blackberry is one of the best things I've seen on the show.

 

I liked Dan too, but he was hilarious to me because he kept sharing the "secret" of how he was an astronaut in the exact same way with everyone out there. "Now, don't tell anyone, but as it turns out, I got to do a little more than just work on the space shuttle. It turns out I got to fly on it." I was waiting for someone to say, "yes, we know Dan. You've already told us that six times."

 

This is why I hated Dan.  Seriously.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay

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Does anybody remember Keith & Whitney? They're going to be on TAR25, and I'm drawing a complete blank on their Survivor experience. My SOP is to search the TWoP forums for my old posts, but that's not an option anymore.

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I think you're talking about Cochran's and Brandon Hantz's second season, cooksdelight. That was Survivor: Caramoan (season 26 - Fans vs, Favorites II).

Keith and Whitney were on Brandon's and Cochran's first season, Survivor: South Pacific (S23). Keith was from Minnesota (which I remember because I used to live there) and had to have heart surgery periodically for some kind of heart defect. Whitney had been on some country music reality show before Survivor and was furious at Cochran for betraying their alliance. They're both very good-looking but not terribly interesting, from what I remember.

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I mentioned on another forum that I found it sort of romantic that they fell in love on Survivor and got quite an earful from a bunch of dudes that cheating on your boyfriend or husband is literally the worst thing a woman could ever do.  Accoding to the editing, the only thing they did of consequence in the game was be mean to Cochran, but I've often wondered, if Cochran hadn't flipped and their tribe had won the rock pull showdown, what would their edit be like?  A big-deal Survivor Romance?

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I cannot STAND insurance fraud, especially where disability claims are concerned. I know too many people who really are hurt or sick and cannot work and this bozo who's got more money than most of us put together does this. I hope he's charged some type of fine for this, if indeed he was receiving money during the time he was playing on Survivor.

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As a legitimately physically disabled person, I am with you 1000% @cooksdelight.  People who try that kind of crap are despicable.  I would love it if those who are caught would be forced to work for free for truly disabled people as payback and to show them what it's really like to be disabled.

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Doctors saying he's "89% disabled" is weirdly specific, so right away I would be thinking that's BS. Interesting that he filed the workers comp claim only four years ago. According to this hilarious article, he's been making around $1M a year for at least seven or eight years (he said in 2006 that he earned in "the high six figures" and at his current firm, which he co-owns with his brother-in-law, they spend more than $1M a year on advertising and consider their advertising budget a one-third partner). Why someone making that kind of money thinks he needs or is entitled to a $175,000 disability settlement is beyond me and also really fucking gross.

 

In case you don't want to click over, the article I linked to is about how Brad's law firm has gone to trial exactly once in its six year existence, and gives a little bit of history about his legal career. To summarize, Brad and his brother-in-law Brett both worked for a trial attorney named John Morgan for several years. During that time, Brad did one trial and Brett did zero. Morgan said, "uh, you guys are going to have to do some more trials," so they quit and started their own firm in 2007. Since then, they've filed hundreds of lawsuits and settled all of them, except for one went to trial in 2012, but the attorney on it was not Brad or Brett; it was Brad's 70-year-old father. Oh, and they lost, which to me was the cherry on top, although I do feel sorry for the unlucky guy who had the misfortune of being their client. The trial attorney who's afraid to go to trial isn't that rare a bird, but because I couldn't stand Brad from the moment he appeared on Survivor, I find it delightful that that self-proclaimed badass is one of them.

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I receive Social Security Disability benefits.  I don't know if the Feds work with percentages like that, but I do know that many private disability insurance companies do.  Your percentage of disability determines how much money you get.

 

As far Brad being an attorney...  Does anyone know if he went to an accredited law school?  Also, regardless of that, what blows my mind is that in the first ep of his Survivor season, in an early TH, he couldn't even correctly count the number of people in his alliance.  Simple, first grade arithmetic.  And before the starvation and sleep deprivation of Survivor.  IIRC, he made a number of other mistakes of the same nature while he was on the show.  It blew my mind when Monica said that he's an attorney.

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Culpepper got his law degree from the University of Florida.

That explains a lot.  According to the article about his law firm, one of his relatives was the first Dean of Florida's law school, and I think it said that he had other relatives in high places there.

 

The article's description of him as an attorney make him sound like Tom Cruise's character in "A Few Good Men."

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I'm adding my name to the list of those that hate RI, both the season and the concept. It just feels wrong that someone who their tribe decided was to go gets a second chance, even if they have to earn it by winning challenges.

 

Having said that, as much as I hate it, it's not the worst concept the show has ever had. Nothing for me will ever be worse than "Haves vs. Have-Nots" from Fiji. When one tribe is basically given all the food they need right at their camp, and the other tribe is resorting to sucking leaves just to get a few tiny drops of water because they don't have the means or the energy to do anything else, that's not fun to watch at all.

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Regarding the upcoming challenge being "good" for Rocker since it involves throwing (from the media thread)...

 

The basketball player, Cliff... he didn't do too well in tossing into the basket challenge, did he? I don't think it's a given that someone doing something they are known for is a guarantee for a win. Season one, Kelly was a whitewater raft guide and she couldn't paddle for shit.

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Regarding the upcoming challenge being "good" for Rocker since it involves throwing (from the media thread)...

 

The basketball player, Cliff... he didn't do too well in tossing into the basket challenge, did he?

IIRC, (a) it took him a while to warm up, and (b) even then, he didn't appear to demonstrate significantly more aptitude than anybody else.

Of course, we aren't talking a regulation basket at regulation height on a regulation backboard, either... which may be the point. :)

I don't think it's a given that someone doing something they are known for is a guarantee for a win. Season one, Kelly was a whitewater raft guide and she couldn't paddle for shit.

That's not surprising at all. Raft guides don't paddle. They steer, while every other poor schmuck in the raft paddles. :)

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LOL, I whitewater raft and kayak a lot. My guides have all known how to paddle, (they have to as part of their certification) as many times they are not in the rear but on the rear side when the raft has an odd number of people. I think I remember Kelly bragging about how this was right up her alley, going to be a cinch, etc., etc.

I love it when someone is on a tribe and has a "special skill" so everyone defers to them in a challenge. Then when they flop, they get votes. Or you have someone who's good at something (puzzles) and never use them.

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LOL, I whitewater raft and kayak a lot. My guides have all known how to paddle, (they have to as part of their certification) as many times they are not in the rear but on the rear side when the raft has an odd number of people. I think I remember Kelly bragging about how this was right up her alley, going to be a cinch, etc., etc.

Yeah, same here - have a few friends who are certified guides as well, so that was mainly me having some fun at their expense. Although I do recall one trip down the Ocoee when, during a particularly fun patch of water, the guide was the only one who fell out of the boat. We didn't even notice until he went floating on past us.... :D

I love it when someone is on a tribe and has a "special skill" so everyone defers to them in a challenge. Then when they flop, they get votes. Or you have someone who's good at something (puzzles) and never use them.

I have NEVER understood the game logic behind putting yourself out there as the subject matter expert on a particular challenge. I mean, by doing so you're setting yourself up in a strategic no-win position:

- If you win, then:

(a) You're not doing anything but covering the check your mouth has already written.

(b) You're painting a later bullseye on your back when it gets down to individual immunity, as a threat on similar challenges.

- If you lose, you're a loudmouth idiot who can't back up talk, and is undependable in challenges.

I've always thought the preferable route would be to say something along the lines of, "Aw, shucks - I can't promise anything, but I'm pretty good at this sort of thing back home. I'll take a shot at it if the team needs me to...."

That way you're a hero if you win, and you haven't shattered any false expectations if you lose. :)

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one trip down the Ocoee

I live near there, but have stopped going due to the rising number of deaths. Two or three last summer, one this summer.

I've noticed in past seasons that if you can keep a fire burning and cook food/gather water and are not too obnoxious, you can usually stick around for a long time. It's the one thing that's saved some of the older folks who weren't very strong in challenges. And actually got Bob a long way to the end.

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I live near there, but have stopped going due to the rising number of deaths. Two or three last summer, one this summer.

I've noticed in past seasons that if you can keep a fire burning and cook food/gather water and are not too obnoxious, you can usually stick around for a long time. It's the one thing that's saved some of the older folks who weren't very strong in challenges. And actually got Bob a long way to the end.

 

Bob is the exception since he won quite a few individual challenges, and was lucky to be on Kota.

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I love Jaybird!  He'd get my vote for sure!  He's adorable, and unlike Pete, was actually nice on the show, which is a huge selling point for me.  Maybe he can win over the one judge by saying that he's "bum puzzled" about why she wouldn't want to see him advance in the competition.  :-)

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Heyy everyone! :)
 

1st - I don 't think everyone really remember how crazy Casaya gets, until you rewatch it and you're like. Yes. Yes they are insane. And they all chose each other. I always remember Cirie peeing herself laughing going "they all" (swirls finger as if she's drawing a circle) "CHOSE EACH OTHER!" /ciriegiggle

 

KimberStormer: i'll sit with you at your Terry Sucks hate table. I couldn't stand him. he bothered me so much. I remember cheering so loudly when Danielle won final 3, because I knew Terry would have won 

 

Someone mentioned  how you can't physically harm someone on Survivor. This is interesting because I honestly think they mean in the context of -"You can not turn and punch them, You can not hurt them outside a challenge, etc." Savage (whom I love - and I wish he was able to be brought back) had stated that his 'one regret' was that once he realised he was voted out -that he didn't punch Fairplay LOL because hewas already out. So  it always made me curious why Rupert didn't get punished for choking Fairplay (answer: he was too popular). Also, I think there has to be an official complaint. (ie: Player X turned around and Did ___________ to me.) 

 

My big regret: Survivor One World. It was something that I had been hoping for since Thailand. everyone living on the same beach, and living together . But they still kept them separated etc. :( 

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I just rewatched Exile Island and Terry is one of my favorites. He had the whole package. He was good looking, atlethic and knew how to play the game. I seem to recall recently where Aras said he was actually a boring Survivor contestant and if it hadn't been for the Terry & Aras rivalry no one would have remembered Aras as a winner. Casaya really did bring the crazy with Shane & Courtney with Cirie (who I really liked) sitting on the side lines laughing (which annoyed a lot of viewers). The only person I couldn't stand was Danielle. That's because of the Boston accent. Sorry, but it drives.me.up.a.wall. That said, she was great at challenges. To this day I'm shocked Terry was never asked back. Whereas some have been back 3 or 4 times. I'm Team Terry!

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