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Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

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I'm sure whatever contingency plans they have regarding medevacs and quitters depend largely on how many people and days/rounds are left in the game.

 

My guess as well.  The tribal switch-arounds, well, I've had my suspicions more than once that they did this on the fly, often to try and forestall a boring series of pagongings.  If so, seems like it usually doesn't work.  

 

I've heard rumors that they also mix up the exact order of the challenges (although not the challenges themselves) in order to effect an outcome the producers might prefer.  Not sure I believe this one, and not because they'd never do such a thing but because it seems unlikely to work.  Plus I'll bet these things have to be scheduled days in advance just to finalize the set-up (although I'm sure the sets are long-since constructed) so it'd probably be hard to do on the fly.  

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 I always assumed that on Palau they cancelled any planned tribe shakeup.  It would be quite a coincidence if the season they didn't mix them up was the season where a tribe sucked so bad they lost every. single. challenge.  I always felt the producers thought the narrative of how lame this tribe was outweighed the predictability of them losing week in and week out, and so stopped the switch up.  It became largely inevitable as the tribes became more and more unbalanced that they'd keep losing and I'm thinking that's where the plan to "merge" once there was a lone survivor left on the tribe and use their triumph at making that far as a narrative thread for the remainder of the season came about.

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There's a game that is being played on my Survivor facebook page right now:

If you could only watch Odd-Number Survivor Seasons or Even-Number Survivor Seasons, what would you pick?

I -without hesitation picked - Odd. I love Borneo, Africa is what made me a fan, I get Pearl Islands (which means i get Sandra 1.0), I get Guatemala, I get  Cook Islands (yay. Yul) - a lot of good game play and seasons that I enjoy. And the benefit is: I only get 2 servings of Hantz. (1 Russel, 1 Brandon)

But then when thinking about it, I miss all the seasons where my favourite people or moments are in.
Australia had a little bit of everything
Season 4 had John peeing on on Kathy's hand, and the coconut chop challenge

I wouldn't have Cirie at all (she was in 12-16-20)

I don't get the best tribal council bar non (Edguardo's blindside)

I don't get any Rob Cesterino... or Boston Rob, looking at it.           

 

It's interesting how that worked out. my favoruite seasons were odd but my favourite memories were even.

 

I'd go with odd too, despite my two favourite seasons (Amazon and Panama) both being even.

 

After all, Nicaragua had two people quit and still had the final tribal council at final three. I'm sure whatever contingency plans they have regarding medevacs and quitters depend largely on how many people and days/rounds are left in the game.

 

Luckily the next episode was supposed to be the season's "two immunity challenges" double elimination anyway, so in that case they just changed the first one so the prize was a generic overnight resort stay.

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I'm pretty sure that Fans vs. Favorites switched from a Final Three to a Final Two due to James' medical evacuation.  Well, James' evacuation was probably the last straw that broke planning, since that's also the season where Kathy(?) quit and Penner was also medically evacuated.

 

Other than readjusting for unplanned circumstances, I personally don't believe that producers switch things around so that their favourites last longer in the game.  But since we don't know for sure, this is where most of the conspiracy theories start.

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Other than readjusting for unplanned circumstances, I personally don't believe that producers switch things around so that their favourites last longer in the game. But since we don't know for sure, this is where most of the conspiracy theories start.

I don't think a single change/surprise/twist goes on air in a given season which hasn't already been beaten to death in multiple production meetings - if for no other reason than TPTB want to be sure as possible before the first camera is unpacked that their exciting new thing isn't introducing an unanticipated window of liability and/or blowback.

I'd expect the only variable might be timing - if multiple medevacs/DORs/expulsions result in a change to Production's shooting schedule, for example.

ETA: rearranging wording

Edited by Nashville

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With nothing better to do, I went back to have a look at the past winners and tried to categorize them according to the theme of the upcoming season as announced on the reunion show.  Note that I was going by my categorization so may be a bit arbitrary (e.g. While some jobs don’t require them getting their collars dirty like car salesmen (Heidik) or flight attendants (Todd) I still consider Blue, while those in entertainment/modeling  (Danni, Jenna etc.) I consider to be no collar.)

 

The historical statistics suggest that Blue Collars are top as far Survivor is concerned. They have the winningest record and includes all three that tops virtually all “best survivor of all time” lists. Boston Rob (Construction), Parvarti (Boxing –although some have said it was more “lingerie boxing” thus making it entertainment and ergo No Collar), Sandra (various jobs for the military, non- commissioned).

 

Notable white collars: Hatch, Yul, Earl, Kim

 

Last three winners: Natalie (Crossfit coach/physical therapist – Blue), Tony (Cop – Blue), Tyson (Cyclist – no collar).

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Not sure if this relates, but Probst has admitted he is allowed to make rules up on the fly, i.e.: Sophie asking Albert to pick up her puzzle pieces in the F5 IC. Since he is a producer, I would imagine he is given a great deal of freedom to call shots in real-time.

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Trek, did you also check if the contestants are pretty evenly distributed among the three groups? 

Hell no, that’s way too many bios to check!  You are right of course that for it to be scientifically sound, it needs to be crossed-referenced against the job distribution of all players who have played the game in each season. However, even for seasons I remember well e.g. Sekou, Billy, Flicka and Cao Boi being the obvious “no-collar” reps of their respective tribes for CI, I’d still have to re-check all to make sure that Sekou was not an accountant or something by day and only a musician at night.

 

Mine was only ever intended as a back of the envelope style peek.

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ABC News is covering the lawsuit against Brad Culpeper, he's being sued by an insurer to get back $175,000 in compensation because he was complaining about being over 80% disabled, and yet he went on Survivor and swam and dived and dragged heavy stuff around.  He told the ABC reporter that he was on heavy pain meds his whole time on Survivor, and then he stripped down to his T shirt to show off his biceps and how one is lopsided and how one shoulder is oddly shaped and he said he's in constant pain.

 

Or maybe he said he IS a constant pain.

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He told the ABC reporter that he was on heavy pain meds his whole time on Survivor

They let you take meds on Survivor?  They let you go on Survivor while dependent on meds?

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(Note: I am not a medical professional in any way.  All the following is based on layman's logic and information gathered from post-Survivor interviews.)
 

They let you take meds on Survivor?

Yes.  One of the items at camp that they never talk about on the show, but is often mentioned in BTS clips and post-game interviews  is a first aid kit.  In addition to feminine hygiene products for women that need them (and condoms if events that would require those happen) and most of the typical home first aid kit equipment, it contains any prescribed meds the contestants need to take. 
While I can't think of any examples right now, there have been some former contestants who use(d) asthma inhalers.  Those would be in the kit. 
 

They let you go on Survivor while dependent on meds?

Well, yes and no.  The asthma example I used above would be a more typical "dependency on meds" that can be easily worked around for a contestant.  But someone requiring several doses of various medications on a tight schedule, or say someone taking meds for a weak immune system.  People with cases like that probably won't make the cut.
 
What Culpepper's claiming is kind of a gray area.  It makes sense if his prescription is akin to over-the-counter painkillers, ie "take only when needed" or a "take once/twice a day" kind of thing.  But something stronger than that, which would seem to be what he's saying he took and would need given what he's saying about his condition..., I'm not sure.

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While I can't think of any examples right now, there have been some former contestants who use(d) asthma inhalers.  Those would be in the kit.

These I can understand but painkillers and other drugs are something else.  This raises the specter of prescription drug abuse, which might be useful whilst living rough.  I mean being hungry for long stretches makes me listless - I'll bet a bit of adderall would help with that.  No advocate for drug abuse me, but there's a reason why elite military troops (it is my understanding) have access to stimulants and think ibuprofen is a food group.  It helps.

 

 

I'm also reminded of Brandon Hantz's meltdown in his last season.  Speculation at the time was that he was on behavioral meds that he was forced to stop taking.  Made me wonder how stringent their drug policies really are.

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If Brandon had been on medication that he stopped taking, it might not be that he was forced by production, but that he didn't tell anyone he was on them in the first place. According to Kathy Sleckman's Reddit AMA, she didn't disclose that she was on anti-depressants and just stopped taking them cold-turkey because she was afraid that if she did, they'd decide not to let her play.

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If Brandon had been on medication that he stopped taking, it might not be that he was forced by production, but that he didn't tell anyone he was on them in the first place. According to Kathy Sleckman's Reddit AMA, she didn't disclose that she was on anti-depressants and just stopped taking them cold-turkey because she was afraid that if she did, they'd decide not to let her play.

Agree. I don't think Production would screw around with meds for drama effect. Not that they're above it or anything, but it simply opens the window of legal liability too wide for their lawyers to let them get away with it.

In a stressful physical environment like Survivor, anyway.

Not so much in a show like, say, BB....

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I've heard it mention on RHAP that each contestant can take their regular meds daily  in addition to an anti-malaria one. However, most don't for the reasons Kathy said and the fact they don't have a lot of food in their system.

Edited by choclatechip45

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I don't think Production would screw around with meds for drama effect.

Oh, I didn't think they'd do that either, not if it exposed them to liability.  What they might do, however, is stop him from taking meds he didn't have a prescription for or that he hadn't disclosed.  They might not want any part of that either.

... each contestant can take their regular meds daily  in addition to an anti-malaria one.

 

Did they say which anti-malarials they're given?  Some of them are particularly unkind, and pretty much all are irritating on an empty stomach.  It crossed my mind that Brandon's meltdown might have been a reaction to lariam, which can be pretty awful.  

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Did they say which anti-malarials they're given?  Some of them are particularly unkind, and pretty much all are irritating on an empty stomach.  It crossed my mind that Brandon's meltdown might have been a reaction to lariam, which can be pretty awful.

No they didn't mention which one they're given.

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I have just been watching the Fiji season of Survivor.  (Yay Earl!)  I had forgotten what a nasty jury that was, especially with Alex and Lisi going off on Cassandra the way they did.  Ugly.

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CBS has ALL of the past season on their site ($5.99/month); they're captioned, too! It's been great. I've just finished Pearl Islands, and am thrilled to see the All Stars again.

 

Most of what I've been watching has been for the second time, but I didn't see Africa, Thailand, or Amazon previously, so it was nice to watch those.

 

My favorite winner so far has been Sandra, but I have to confess I just don't see how she won; her "anybody but me" strategy seemed really transparent, and she got blindsided twice. I'm curious to see how she'll win her 2nd season (haven't seen HvV yet).

 

To be sure, there's a lot of luck involved for every winner. Tina's at the end because of Colby, or is Colby at the end because of Tina? Richard's at the end because Kelly was kinda dumb. The only winner I can point at and say, "Dominated," is Brian from Thailand (whatever his off air peccadillos might be), but even he only got four votes. V was the weakest winner (so far!). The love for Rupert was insane (and wrongly placed). Shii Ann wasn't so smart, either.

 

I'm really looking forward to the stretch between seasons 11-27--I can't believe I've missed ALL of those. Really going to enjoy seeing Parvati, Kim Spradling, Yul, Sandra again, Rob M. again, etc.

 

I've spoiled myself, that's for sure, but don't care. I'm more interested in seeing how the winner gets there; turning points midway through; how the final 2-3 players make it to the end. 

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Who is this referring to? I can't remember a female alliance from last year at all. I can only remember 2 in the whole show, the one from fans vs. faves, which was beautiful and my fave alliance ever, and I guess there was one in the men vs. women season, but I don't think it really counts due to the premise.

 

Not a formal female alliance, but definitely girls sticking together.  The whole game they stuck together.  The final 3 was all women, and Natalie in particular seemed keen to keep as many women around as long as possible.  Val tried to put together an actual formal female alliance, but couldn't because of the numbers disparity and the fact that she sucks at the game.  All the women who went out early were not targeted by other women--Nadiya was targeted by Dale and the dudes in a gender-line vote (Baylor was just going along with Josh to save her own skin, it's not like she was "yeah let's get out a woman!!"), Kelley was targeted by Drew and then the other dudes, Julie quit, and after that it was all dudes except Baylor, necessary for Natalie to get to final 3.  Furthermore, Drew went home because Jeremy was following the lead of the women, who all voted for him.  In my mind last season was an excellent season for feeling pride in the women, especially considering they were at a numbers disadvantage to start.  They ran that game (the final 3 in particular--each of them was very important to how the game went down) just as soon as they got their feet under them, which didn't take that long because the dudes were in disarray.

I've said it before, but to my mind the idea that women just never stick together on Survivor, darn it, is completely backwards.  Probably a confirmation bias because of the overwhelming societal message that women are always at each others' throats for men's attention.  (Even now people seem to think Parvati only cares about dudes, despite twice running powerful female alliances, one with pet goat Russell.)  The truth is we've seen two incredibly successful women's alliances, and zero successful men's alliances.  Women are pretty good at playing this game together--it's not their fault that men always suppose they're weak at challenges.  I would bet that Carolyn and So would rather not have voted for each other, if it was an option, but the men (and Probst and the show history) just assume that challenge strength = dudely dudes.  Don't blame the women for that.

Edited by KimberStormer
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 two incredibly successful women's alliances

Which two are you thinking of?  Last season with Natalie winning of course which you just talked about.  I'd say Parvati in Micronesia and Kim Spradlin in One World also had successful women's alliances.

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Who do you think is the most popular winner?  I've always thought it was Yul, but I haven't watched all the seasons, and don't have as good a memory of past players as you all have.

 

And while we are at it, who do you think was the least popular winner?

 

I'm speaking of popular with viewers, not popular within the game.  Although that might be an interesting question as well.  Being popular with your fellow players doesn't necessarily mean winning.

 

I think this is one of those questions that probably should be broken down into "era's," but if we are talking the general television audience, rather than fans, I'd guess that forum whipping boy Rob Mariano is probably the most popular winner.  As for least favorite, hands down Brian Heidik; his season was unpleasant to watch, he created the goat strategy - making for a despicable final two, and his post-Survivor action(s) just pull him down further.  [And please note, this last sentence was written by someone who places Brian H.'s game in Thailand in the top five games ever played.]

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I think this is one of those questions that probably should be broken down into "era's," but if we are talking the general television audience, rather than fans, I'd guess that forum whipping boy Rob Mariano is probably the most popular winner.  As for least favorite, hands down Brian Heidik; his season was unpleasant to watch, he created the goat strategy - making for a despicable final two, and his post-Survivor action(s) just pull him down further.  [And please note, this last sentence was written by someone who places Brian H.'s game in Thailand in the top five games ever played.]

Plus he had the whole domestic abuse story while his season was airing!

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I would bet that Carolyn and So would rather not have voted for each other, if it was an option, but the men (and Probst and the show history) just assume that challenge strength = dudely dudes.  Don't blame the women for that.

 

Oh I have certainly never, ever blamed the women for that. I personally blame the men for everything ! Doesn't mean it doesn't make me sad and disappointed when time and again the women just let themselves get taken out.

 

I see what you're saying now about last season. I thought you were talking about an alliance of only women that was formed with the purpose of protecting the women and targeting the guys. Which I feel like has only truly happened once, the one in FvF, but I'm not even sure if that happened exactly that way.

 

Also, I might include Kim's alliance in One World, even though the men vs. women format made it easier. But Kim could've gone with the men yet she chose the women and specifically targeted the men. Probably why she's my second fave player ever! It was made even more awesome by the fact that she was so anti girl power in the beginning.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Has anyone ever gone a long time between re-watching seasons and ended up with false memories of how a season played out? I was fairly young when Survivor: Africa was on and when I was watching All-Stars a few years later I wondered why Lex was cast when he had been booted at the merge during his season. Imagine my surprise when a few years later I re-watch Survivor: Africa and realize that Lex came in third!

 

I also thought Kel was the first boot on Survivor: The Australian Outback (Sorry Debb!) and never understood why Helen skewered Brian at the final tribal council in Thailand when he had been nothing but nice to her (obviously, this was not true...).  

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Has anyone ever gone a long time between re-watching seasons and ended up with false memories of how a season played out?

 

I was pretty young when Austrailia aired and always thought Mad Dog and Kimmi were around longer until I bought the DVD a few years ago. I also remember the Australia being on all the talk shows so maybe that's why I thought they lasted longer.

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Which two are you thinking of?  Last season with Natalie winning of course which you just talked about.  I'd say Parvati in Micronesia and Kim Spradlin in One World also had successful women's alliances.

 

I was thinking of Micronesia and One World since they were explicitly and self-consciously "women's alliances".  Ami's in Vanuatu was of course too but was not so successful. 

 

I would consider the Boran Alliance-Big Tom, Lex and Ethan successful.

 

Haha, I need to watch Africa at some point!  Were they "bros over hoes" or that's just how their final 3 happened to shake out?  To me the word "alliance" suggests 5 or more people, I'm not sure why.

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Haha, I need to watch Africa at some point!  Were they "bros over hoes" or that's just how their final 3 happened to shake out?  To me the word "alliance" suggests 5 or more people, I'm not sure why.

It's been awhile, but Lex was super paranoid and wanted to vote out anyone who went against him. All 3 stuck together from the beginning and went to the Final 4 together. Lex & Tom were given runner-up money because there was an error in the Final Comrades finale. I wouldn't put them in the "bros over hoes" category like I would put the 4 horseman in.

Edited by choclatechip45

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Lex's paranoia that season was a thing to behold. Because of it, the alliance broke before F4 but Tom didn't know it, and I think Tom would have been voted out at F4 even if Kim hadn't won that IC. Lex wanted him out at F5 because Teresa told Lex that it was Tom who had instigated her single vote against him earlier in the season (the that made Lex go after Kelly). Ethan and Kim wouldn't go along at F5 because they wanted Teresa out, but at F4 they were fine with it. Lex was still mad at Tom, Ethan thought Kim would be easier to beat in the end, and Kim knew if Tom didn't go, she would. I agree with chocolatechip and wouldn't call them "bros over hos" either. Both Lex and Tom were playing individual games from early on -- Tom in a shifty but mostly ineffectual way (pretty much the way he played in All-Stars) and Lex was maybe the first player who couldn't grasp the idea that other people might be playing to win and not playing for him to win and it made him insane.

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I don't know what was to dislike about Yul.  Ozzy, sure, but not Yul.  But yeah, I, too, preferred Becky and Sundra to both of them.

 

Essentially it comes down to his attitude towards Cao Boi.  Admittedly there was some nuance but ultimately it was classism and a desire not to be associated with this weirdo.  Cao Boi was a refugee, a serviceman, had a bit of an accent, worked various blue-collar (and/or no-collar, according to this season's rubric) jobs, believed in non-Western "irrational" things like his headache remedy, all these "Other" markers which the Yul (and to be fair, the rest of the young, middle-class-or-better Puka Puka tribe) did not like, and especially did not like having associated with them, when they want to "fit in" and be seen as "normal".  He was annoyed by Cao Boi's jokes which, while I agree they're bad jokes and bad for the world, to me seemed obviously like a defense mechanism for someone who grew up without the many privileges Yul enjoyed.  Of course, I don't want to morally judge Yul for this or whatever, there are lots and lots and lots of reasons for him to feel how he felt, growing up in racist America.  But I don't have to like him either.

 

Who I do like is Cao Boi!  I love that dude.  Plan Voodoo seems so obvious now, but I still believe it was absolutely brilliant of him to come up with, and if you watch the clip where he comes up with it, despite the comedy sound effects the editors are throwing at him, he's completely lucid and rational and everything he's saying is spot-on, even if it came to him in a bizarre dream.

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KimberStormer, I see a tiny bit (a root, say) of what you're saying, and I agree that Cao Boi was a great character (hell, my favorite tribe ever was Casaya), but in this case I think Yul's reaction to Cao Boi had more to do with strategy, because 1) Yul had the idol and did NOT want it to be flkushed out or even on anyone's radar at that point, and 2) he was allied with Candice and Jonathan. Still, I think your class analysis is valid, that season was more of a class war ("White Collar"/"No collar" situation) than a "race" thing, although it was billed diferently. Viewing it this way also helps explain why Ozzy would have been the next one sent packing had the mutiny not happened (he, Jessica/Flicka and Cao Boi being the "no collar" on a "white collar tribe"). For me, despite liking the winner and - for once - the uncertainty after FTC, one of the beauty of that season was that it brought together people who had NOTHING in common in their everyday life and would have never met otherwise, like Yul/Ozzy, Sundra/Ozzy, Becky/Ozzy, well obviously any of these three + Ozzy, who they wanted to get rid of asap and ultimately came to embrace and rely/count on to get further. I think THAT season was an in that regard an excellent illustration of the social experiment that Jeff promises us every season :-)   

Edited by NutMeg
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The great thing about that season to me was how quickly any kind of ethnic loyalty went out the window.  The people who were foolish enough to get caught up in believing that it meant anything were mostly gotten rid of quickly (as on the African-American tribe).  And of course that spectacular final punchline, with Becky, who allied with Yul on the basis of a shared Korean heritage, did much of his heavy lifting, and discovered in the end after getting not even ONE vote that he had played her.

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Recovering from an injury has led me to binge watch past Survivor seasons.  I started off a cheerleader for Worlds Apart when people were iffy (because no matter what, it almost always is "the worst season/cast ever!") but more than halfway to the finale and I'm feeling hugely let down.  Something big needs to happen, and I don't even know if a twist or some big game changer would save this season for me now.  It really has one of the worst casts that I can recall.  I blame a lot on editing leaving things out in terms of game play, but I really feel like two different seasons were shot: the ones the contestants lived and talk about in interviews, and the ones we're seeing.  There are exactly 3 people I like left, 1 person I'm neutral on, and the rest can get washed up into the ocean with Dan's underwear.  Even if there's any redemption edits coming for some of the more vial people on there, or some big Natalie type surge in edit, it's too little too late for me.  Though I would be extremely happy to be proven wrong and come back here to say that I was.

 

Where are the Courtney's and Shane's this season, moves like Russell using an idol meant for him on Parvati and blindsiding one alliance-and then Parvati crafting that kick ass move that led to J.T.'s ouster, the blindsides of Cliff and Sarah in Cagayan, Parvati's black widow bridgade blindsiding Ozzy, Tom Westman getting falling down drunk during Palau (why do people not get fun drunk anymore?), Jan with the funeral she held for a dead baby bat in Thailand, Spencer Bledsoe defying the odds that Jeff didn't think he'd have any chance in the game, the comebacks of the Aitu 4, Malcolm and Denise, and even Foa Foa, and crazy Matt with the machete in Amazon and Rob's confessional that he thinks they were going to get murdered in their sleep by him, the camp washing away in Outback, and the camp burning down in Amazon.  Heck, I even miss clueless Keith from last season.  That's just the tip of the iceberg, but so far this season doesn't really have any sort of memorable moments that I think I'll recall like I do those from past seasons.

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From the media thread:

 

 

LadyChatts, in the same article that Jeff says the s30 cast may be the best ever, he specifically says three other seasons are the best seasons ever, in his opinion: HvV, BBB and FvF.

 

ETA: for me, this cast is average.  Best I recall are HvV and Philippines.

Cook Islands is #1 for me.  It had a ton of really good players (Yul, I say Becky even if the editing didn't, Ozzy, Parvati) and weird characters (Billy, Cao Boi, etc.) from the pre-merge AND they were all new.  Plus it gave us Penner, who is a good but not great player, but he is the best narrator/Jeff abuser (apologies to Courtney) they've ever had.  Almost everyone added something to that season.

Edited by enlightenedbum
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I liked Philippines more than I might have, more because of where it fell: it came both before and after some of my least favorite seasons of all time (Nicaragua, RI, SP, OW, and Caramoan).  Had it come between any of my favorites, I might not have liked it so much.  But it was refreshing, and if they were going to continue to bring back returnees, I'm glad they were those that were medically removed.  I would probably rank my top 10 favorites casts, in order of season: 1) Borneo (still can't beat the original); 2) Marquesas; 3) Amazon; 4) Cook Islands (agree that it had a really good mix of personalities, both pre and post merge); 5) China; 6) Micronesia; 7) Tocantins; 8) HvsV; 9) Philippines; 10) B/B/B.  Honorable mentions go to Guatemala, which I find to be a very underrated season, and BvsW.

Edited by LadyChatts
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I'm always somewhat mystified by the extremity of Russell hate but I'm especially flabbergasted that people bailed on his seasons (including HvV, which is one of the best ever!) just because of one of him, but are sticking with this one, where 90% of the cast, to me, makes Russell look like Malcolm (or replace with your beloved character of choice).

Edited by KimberStormer
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There are two reasons for the extremity of the Russell hate:

 

A) He and his fans don't understand the game and think it's wrong that a flamboyant schemer who worked to actively piss off everyone he voted off lost is a grave injustice.  They fail to understand the goal of the game is not to get to the end, it's to get the votes to win the million.  And they are VERY vociferous about this.

B) The editors stuffed him down the throats of everyone and he really only said like five things:

 

1) I'm Russell Hantz!

2) I"m the greatest player there's ever been!

3) I'm going to win this game because Sandra/Natalie (choose as appropriate) will never get a single vote.

4) She (almost always she) pissed me off, she has to go home!

5) I've got an idol and idols represent POWER (CREEPY GLARE)!

 

String those five sentences together in random order and you have any of his 2190321 confessionals in his first two seasons.

 

Especially awful in HvV where you have 19 other giant personalities, literally any of whom have more interesting things to say than Russell.  Even Rupert.  But especially Sandra.

Edited by enlightenedbum
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Russell definitely outplay and outwit everybody. The constant hidden idol hunt everyday on camaroan, when at the merged, it's like 9 vs 3. Boston Rob vs Russell Hantz, where it was 7 vs 3. Then got TJ to give him a hidden immunity.

 

First of all, sandra was being an ass right from the start towards russell. russell wasnt even mean to anybody. then the jury in his two seasons are the most bitter jury ever. its a feelings vote, survivor merits of outwit and outplay doesnt matter to them.

 

when russell revealed that he fooled TJ and the rest, the next day, rupert became this talking head of 'russell is the most villainy player yet, he's a bad guy, yada yada yada.' puh-leezzz.

 

in the camaroan, the first vote, the majority cannibalized one of its own, b/c its 9 vs 3. when they finally come around to voting russell off, it was hidden idol one after another every tribal, it was awesome. then people just get pissed off. deal with it. its not like they saw russell being direct with that one girl, saying she's going next.

 

it was just mostly seeing him talking to everybody, people saying he hangs out with the girls too much, dont like his cocky attitude, so next thing is insults, saying he looks like a hobbit. then at the final tribal, there were some hypocritical remarks from the jurors. u lose. why? he put u there. deal with it. bunch of lousy bitter no good jurors.

 

this game is not a popularity contest. its outwit, outplay and outlast. then people say its a 'social game', aka have some likability at the end, if u wanna win. well, that's not survivor anymore. what does likable has anything to do with 'social game' and outwit, outlast, outplay? nothing.

 

having a social game where it enables you to outwit, outplay, outlast, is the true definition of the lone survivor.

 

having a social game where being likable is a prerequisite, becomes being in a popularity contest, not survivor. b/c the survivor mottos, outwit, outplay, outlast, doesnt have meaning anymore.

 

only the first season is a true survivor, where that richard guy wins.

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Russell is a bully. Plain and simple. He is a bully. He made it to the end of his first two seasons because he was such a massive goat based on how poorly he treated people. He was so awful in HvV that Parvati was painted with the same brush as Russell. Russell is a mean person who takes pleasure from making other people uncomfortable. There is no denying that he hustled and schemed and he was good at that but he is simply an awful person. Listen to any of his Podcasts with Rob. He is quite simply a vile human being and that came through in how he played the game.

 

I did watch the first two seasons with Russell. I did not watch Russell vs Rob until after Russell was voted off because the man is an asshole.

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Great posts enlightenedbum and ProfCrash. I completely agree.

 

Also, a big problem I had with Russell was the show trying to tell me he was a great player when he actually was one of the worst players ever. No dice, production! If he'd been presented as the terrible player he was then maybe he would have been easier to take.

 

But I am infinitely glad I did't bail on Samoa or HvV because seeing him get beat by Natalie and Sandra was truly magnificent.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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No question to me that Russell is an ass, who sabotaged his own game with hijinks that did nothing to advance him forward, but turned the jurors against him.  This is his fatal flaw, that makes it unlikely he could ever win Survivor.  

 

I also think he is a strategic genius.  A creative thinker/problem solver, who never gets down, never quits, always gives 100%, takes his alliance to the end, and pulls off moves that mystify many of the best to ever play. 

 

I don't believe he got to the end, two games in a row, by being a goat.  LOTS of others wanted him gone those seasons.  Including Boston Rob, Sandra, eventually all the heroes, and the the 8-4 majority alliance in Samoa.  He survived by out-smarting and out-playing them -- not because they dragged him along. 

 

I hated him, but I also loved watching him throw the opposing sides' plans into chaos.  My main problem with the outcomes is that he cost Parvati the win in HvV.  Sandra is the luckiest contestant ever to play Survivor IMO: no one else even comes close. 

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There are two reasons for the extremity of the Russell hate:

 

A) He and his fans don't understand the game and think it's wrong that a flamboyant schemer who worked to actively piss off everyone he voted off lost is a grave injustice.  They fail to understand the goal of the game is not to get to the end, it's to get the votes to win the million.  And they are VERY vociferous about this.

B) The editors stuffed him down the throats of everyone and he really only said like five things:

 

Especially awful in HvV where you have 19 other giant personalities, literally any of whom have more interesting things to say than Russell.  Even Rupert.  But especially Sandra.

 

I mean, I know these things, and I know that not having watched Samoa (and being around an Internet crowd of 99% Russell haters, very very few Russell supporters, and maybe <5 Russell fans) makes things very different.  But I don't know, I rewatched HvV not that long ago and the only person I felt was being shoved down my throat was Colby, who got like three incredibly boring confessionals every goddamn episode.  A lot of people have been overedited, I don't get why Russell is the one single player that got people to quit watching.  (Sandra got plenty of awesome screen time in HvV, in my opinion...the perfect under-the-radar winner edit, really.  More winner quotes than anyone ever.)

 

Russell is a bully. Plain and simple. He is a bully. He made it to the end of his first two seasons because he was such a massive goat based on how poorly he treated people. He was so awful in HvV that Parvati was painted with the same brush as Russell. Russell is a mean person who takes pleasure from making other people uncomfortable.

 

But like, worse than Rodney, Dan, Will (apparently, since I haven't watched this episode)?  SO much worse than the three of them combined (plus Vince etc) that he was, singlehandedly, what got people to stop watching a show they'd never missed an episode of?

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Imagine if Dan had half the confessionals.  Yikes.

 

Russell was, more than anything else, boring.  Even these assholes are not that.

 

Also while we're on the topic, his strategy sucked.  Strategy is big picture, both time he took a person the jury liked to the end and expected to crush her because "she didn't do anything."  Watch the finale of HvV and check out Parvati's read of the jury vs. Russell's for a quick explanation on how shit of a player he is.  Or the episode where he decides to boot Danielle and contemplates bringing Colby and Rupert to F3.

 

Tactically, he's sort of OK, even though some of the things he's doing are incredibly self-destructive.  But basically he got (was pointed towards by cameramen) a bunch of idols and then Natalie saved their asses when he didn't have one in Samoa.  She made the most important play, getting rid of Erik and permanently fracturing the majority.  She was and is a much better player than he was.

 

In HvV, asshole got lucky because Tyson is a greedy moron, pure and simple.  I know the show tried to convince you he convinced Tyson to do that, but not so much if you ready any post-game interviews.  Then again, Parvati made the key tactical play by literally making her team totally immune at the merge and seizing the majority.  Key strategy play was obviously just bashing the shit out of Russell and trying to get him voted out at every opportunity only to be foiled by various elements of the Heroes stupidity.  "Told you so" is a great jury speech when he's such a spiteful little shit.

 

Also on the Russell is secretly a shitty tactical player too front: Rupert fooled him.

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They didn't show it, but players from his first season said he would continue screaming insults at them after they were voted out as they walked away. Why he ever expected people to give him a million dollars, I have no idea.

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They didn't show it, but players from his first season said he would continue screaming insults at them after they were voted out as they walked away. Why he ever expected people to give him a million dollars, I have no idea.

 

 

Because he felt that getting to the end, and being able to go "I voted you out" was enough to win anything. 

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Like I've said, just b/c Russell bullied people out of the game, it became a popularity contest. That effectively strips the spirit of the game, outwit, outplay, outlast. You get america to vote, they'll vote russell. he won two sprint player award.

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Like I've said, just b/c Russell bullied people out of the game, it became a popularity contest. That effectively strips the spirit of the game, outwit, outplay, outlast. You get america to vote, they'll vote russell. he won two sprint player award.

The editors refused to showcase anyone but Russell, despite the fact that he ended up saying the same five things in confessionals repeatedly, so of course America would vote for the one player that was actually featured and was more interested in camera time than anything else.

 

Survivor is, to an extent, a popularity contest, as I think it should it be. If people goes out of their way to alienate, mock and take genuine pleasure at other people's downfall, it's their own fault if jurors refuse to vote for them because of those actions.

Edited by jsm1125
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