Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[Lamb18]

I like it pretty well. Rob, of course, is familiar although it's funny to see him as kind of a scrawny youngster. I feel like I've seen Neleh before - was she on a later season?

[Vyk]

1 minute ago, Lamb18 said:

I feel like I've seen Neleh before - was she on a later season?

As of now, Neleh's still a one-timer who has yet to appear on another season, though she has expressed interest in returning.  She's one I'd certainly love to see again.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Vyk

[LadyChatts]

I would kill to see Neleh again.  She was in the running for AS, but that's the only time I've heard her name come up as a possibility.  After SC she and John Carroll campaigned pretty hard on FB to return at some point.  I guess never say never.  That season seems to be defined by Boston Rob, who didn't get a chance to do much on it except that's where he got his start.  I did like him as a player back then, and I was disappointed he didn't make the jury.  However, 3 attempts later and the love affair I had was far different from the love affair the show apparently had.

[Lantern7]

Tai is basically Dre, right? I mean, both are pivotal players. Both can be clueless. Both made it to Day 39 and didn't get a vote. Dre was basically the Perfection board that could (and would) pop up at any moment under sixty seconds. I mean, Yau Man took the risk of making the riskiest deal with the most unpredictable player in the game, but Dre (can't use the nickname even if it ended in "s") basically did not come out looking good. As much as Tai can bug, at least he screwed Scot. You know, just like Scot's life did.

[Vyk]

9 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Tai is basically Dre, right? I mean, both are pivotal players. Both can be clueless. Both made it to Day 39 and didn't get a vote. Dre was basically the Perfection board that could (and would) pop up at any moment under sixty seconds. I mean, Yau Man took the risk of making the riskiest deal with the most unpredictable player in the game, but Dre (can't use the nickname even if it ended in "s") basically did not come out looking good. As much as Tai can bug, at least he screwed Scot. You know, just like Scot's life did.

I really don't think Dreamz was that unpredictable.  The only two random things he did were 1.) going against Mookie's wishes to vote out Stacy with him and Michelle and instead joined Alex and Stacy in voting out Michelle (even though Michelle staying in the game and Stacy going out of it would've improved his and Mookie's position in the game and greatly weakened Alex and Edgardo) and 2.) telling Earl, Cassandra, and Yau-Man about Mookie having a hidden Immunity Idol, which, while stupid on his part, gave way to the best Tribal Council of Fiji.  Everything else was stupid, but certainly not unpredictable or random.  He had a clear game plan of his own other than that.

Tai . . . he's just a hot mess.  Other than screwing over Scot and Jason, his unpredictability really didn't do much for his game.

[loki567]

John Carroll's story arc was so utterly and absolutely perfect that I never want to see him on another season. I'm sure he's a decent human being in real life, but his story still remains as the ideal, "cocky douchebag overthrown," story that I don't want Survivor messing with its lore like that. 

If there's one character from Marquesas I regret they haven't brought back, it's Sean Rector. I think he actually was the most interesting character in a season that included Boston Rob and Kathy. First time I remember a reality contestant bringing race into the forefront (granted, I didn't watch The Real World in its heyday). I think he'd only get better in a post-Trump world. 

[enlightenedbum]

2 hours ago, Vyk said:

I really don't think Dreamz was that unpredictable.  The only two random things he did were 1.) going against Mookie's wishes to vote out Stacy with him and Michelle and instead joined Alex and Stacy in voting out Michelle (even though Michelle staying in the game and Stacy going out of it would've improved his and Mookie's position in the game and greatly weakened Alex and Edgardo) and 2.) telling Earl, Cassandra, and Yau-Man about Mookie having a hidden Immunity Idol, which, while stupid on his part, gave way to the best Tribal Council of Fiji.  Everything else was stupid, but certainly not unpredictable or random.  He had a clear game plan of his own other than that.

Tai . . . he's just a hot mess.  Other than screwing over Scot and Jason, his unpredictability really didn't do much for his game.

I'm really not sure he did other than stick with Cassandra the one person on his original tribe who wasn't a dick to him.  Though as I recall he wanted her out first or second.

Anyway, the best thing about him is the greatest TWoP title ever, which was the finale: "The Last Temptation of 'Dreamz'" which makes me laugh every time I see it.

[laurakaye]

Although I'm a pretty strong opponent to continually bringing back cast members, I wonder how a season full of one-and-done players might work?  Some of the low-profile players, or those who didn't last long, but really want to come back and don't have the magnetism of an Ozzie or a Cirie...that could be interesting.  Reading the above posts, I had completely forgotten about Neleh, or Sean, or John Carroll (had to look them up to remember who they were).

I am currently working my way through seasons 13 - 34 on Hulu (on season 24 at the moment) and there's at least two or three "lesser" players on each season who I would love to see again.  I get the draw of bringing back the big guns, but honestly, watching someone play for the 4th time gets a little old (and this is coming from someone who adores Ozzy).  It might also have the benefit of making fans of the show seek out those earlier seasons for binge-watching.

[Lantern7]

*sigh* Just looked up seasons on Wikipedia. Sandra doesn't have the record for most consecutive days played. That would be Amanda Kimmel with 108 (39+39+30). From what I can remember, she had good game, but she may as well started Night 39 with, "Stupid drunken assholes of the jury . . ."

[piequinn35]

The record is Boston Rob = 117 (4 seasons though) next is Parvati, 114 (39+39+36)

[Lantern7]

No, I meant consecutive days in the game. If Rob had a streak, it started at S8, then wrapped up in S20. Amanda completed China and Fans vs. Favorites, and she got thirty days into Heroes vs. Villains. Parvati probably has the best percentage of any three-timer, so I can give her that.

[piequinn35]

^I got you.

[LanceM]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

The record is Boston Rob = 117 (4 seasons though) next is Parvati, 114 (39+39+36)

Ozzy has no surpassed that record, as he is up to 120 through 4 seasons

[piequinn35]

Yeah this season was not included.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Steve Wright catches Probst off-guard. Notable: "If Rob doesn't win the first time, we'll give him four tries."

ETA: Didn't realize I posted the essay on Tata the bushman in the Media thread. My mistake.

[awaken]

We just started back at the very beginning- when did tree Mail end?!  Didn't realize it was gone till I saw it again in season 1. 

And hulu skips seasons 2-11!  Where can they be found?  

[LadyChatts]

If you subscribe to CBS All Access they have all of the seasons.  I think someone said Amazon might have them all as well?  

As for tree mail, has it actually stopped, or do they just not show it anymore?  It's been a long time since they actually showed them getting tree mail, though.  While I understand why they cut that portion out, it use to be funny to watch their reactions at the cryptic clues and try to figure out what the challenge was (and the reward, if they had to take a guess on that).  

[SVNBob]

4 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I think someone said Amazon might have them all as well?  

I was checking on that.  It looks like Amazon has all the seasons, except the current one, for sale on their streaming service.  And they have seasons 1-31 for sale on DVD (and some later seasons are also on Blu Ray).  Seasons 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, and 10 were produced by CBS and have commentary tracks on some episodes and other bonus features.  The rest are from Amazon's burn-on-demand service, so do not have any extras.  I'd also wager that at some point before the end of this season, we'll see a commercial for the DVD release of season 32.  That'd put them up to practically current.

[fishcakes]

4 hours ago, SVNBob said:

The rest are from Amazon's burn-on-demand service, so do not have any extras. 

They do have extras, but they don't always list them on the product page. The earliest of the burn-on-demand seasons have only the post-eviction Early Show interview of each person, but most of the seasons have a ton of stuff. The full voting comments, full final words of the bootee, day after interview, Ponderosa, B-roll, "sizzle" reel, Meet the Castaways.

But starting with the South Pacific and Redemption Island releases (they usually release two seasons at a time), Amazon changed something about how they produce the DVDs and there are numerous complaints in the reviews that the discs aren't watchable unless you hit on the right combination of newer DVD player and/or newer TV. I don't have either of those DVD sets, but I did try to watch a recent burn-on-demand movie from Amazon and I see what those reviewers are talking about. I have a high def TV, but the disc wouldn't play on either my DVR or on my DVR/VCR; I got sound but no picture on one and sound with strange green ghosty picture on the other. Reviewers have said they won't play on Blu-Ray players or any combo player. I think you need just a stand-alone high def DVD player for those to work.

I had been waiting for the Blu-Rays for those two seasons anyway, and they were announced years ago, but have never been released. I'm guessing Amazon might be getting ready to ditch the disc format for all-streaming.

[awaken]

16 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

If you subscribe to CBS All Access they have all of the seasons.  I think someone said Amazon might have them all as well?  

As for tree mail, has it actually stopped, or do they just not show it anymore?  It's been a long time since they actually showed them getting tree mail, though.  While I understand why they cut that portion out, it use to be funny to watch their reactions at the cryptic clues and try to figure out what the challenge was (and the reward, if they had to take a guess on that).  

Great, will look for that on cbs all access or amazon! We are long past DVDs – I don't even think we have a working DVD player anymore! 

 

 Totally agree about tree mail – it was fun to see them finding it, and trying to figure out the clues, And practicing for what they thought the challenge might be! Gave them something to do, anyway. 

[Guest]

One word of warning about Amazon, if this is your first time watching some seasons.... The DVD cover art, which I think is shown even if you stream it, maybe?  It gives away the winner.  

[simplyme]

On 4/10/2017 at 8:43 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

One word of warning about Amazon, if this is your first time watching some seasons.... The DVD cover art, which I think is shown even if you stream it, maybe?  It gives away the winner.  

I've been streaming seasons on Amazon. While I can't say that no seasons are spoiled by whatever they've chosen as the picture, I have yet to notice it. I'm currently making SimplyMom watch Cook Islands as her intro to classic Survivor (she watched last season and this season), and the art for the streaming version of that season is simply a blue sky with rays of light. (I have no idea why.)

So I will tentatively say that streaming is safer than dvd versions.

On an unrelated note, in another thread, someone mentioned the car curse. That made me think of something else I wanted to ask Ye Survivor Geeks. How many people who have won the family reward have actually won the game? Because I admit, I'd be throwing that challenge since people get pissed if you win it and don't choose to take them, and they get paranoid about jury goodwill if you win and give it up for the tribe. Offhand, I couldn't think of anyone, but I also can't even remember who won it most seasons, so that's not much of an indicator.

[fishcakes]

32 minutes ago, simplyme said:

That made me think of something else I wanted to ask Ye Survivor Geeks. How many people who have won the family reward have actually won the game?

Oh, I like this question. This page from the Surivivor Wikia lists all of the winners of the family reward. Bob from Gabon and Mike from Worlds Apart are the only winners of the family reward challenge who went on the win the game.

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Oh, I like this question. This page from the Surivivor Wikia lists all of the winners of the family reward. Bob from Gabon and Mike from Worlds Apart are the only winners of the family reward challenge who went on the win the game.

Awesome. Thank you, @fishcakes! 

Apparently it is only safe to win the family reward if your season absolutely sucks. :P

[Eolivet]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:13 AM, LadyChatts said:

As for tree mail, has it actually stopped, or do they just not show it anymore?  It's been a long time since they actually showed them getting tree mail, though.

They showed it last season -- Adam went to get it and read the note about the "summit" between the millennials and Gen X-ers, where everyone drew rocks to see who got to go. (the more innocuous rock draw of the season!) Other than that, I can't remember a time when I saw it recently.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Mario makes fun of Marty's hair. A LOT. I know Mario can split a room, but at least he's able to archive his viewing experiences. I don't even remember Marty, let alone his Gary Busey hair. I think Nicaragua, only three words come to mind: "Naonka," "'Fabio,'" and "SUCK."

[Hera]

Brought over from the episode thread

On 20/04/2017 at 10:57 AM, MissBluxom said:

[Sierra] is a very mean and nasty lady. Where is she from? I'm guessing she was brought up in the heart of some KKK stronghold. She is the most deeply racist contestant that I've ever seen on this game.  She is so racist that I doubt she even realizes it. If anyone asked her about it or confronted her, she would deliver a speech about how she has all these best friends who are black and people who think she is racist must be out of their minds. Denial with two capital "D"s.

Ben Browning from Samoa was probably the worst human being I've seen play the game. The stuff he said to Yasmin, a black woman on the other tribe who was visiting their camp, wasn't even coded. He called her ghetto trash and claimed he couldn't understand her/didn't want to talk to her because her grammar was bad—I will add that Yasmin spoke completely standard American English. He had also deliberately kicked Russell Swan (another black player) during a challenge, which Probst declared was a cheap shot and resulted in Ben not being allowed to continue competing in the challenge.

So yeah. I think that's definitely worse than anything Sierra has done to Michaela. I won't claim that Sierra is or is not racist, but I will point out that she doesn't seem to have a problem with Cirie.

[LadyChatts]

I'm not going to go as far as saying Sierra is racist, either, and I also agree that there have been plenty of horrible people that came before her (I'd still argue that Colton is the worst of the worst, but Ben is up there, too).  She's always struck me as a kind of mean girl, but I don't know her, and all I hear from people in the Survivor community is that she's a sweetheart.  Maybe she reminds me of someone from growing up that I had a bad experience with.  I don't know, I didn't like her much in WA either.  She isn't the only one this season that has an issue with Michaela, and I'm curious what the remaining castaways will say about her if asked.  She's seemed on the outs from the beginning.  Sierra seems power crazed.  I still think it's as simple as Michaela isn't in her alliance, is a strong female that could be a wild card, and isn't coming to Sierra and begging to be saved, so she wants her gone.  Much like Hali said, she wasn't going to just be a number and believes that's why she was targeted.  Same could be said here.

I'll also be curious what Michaela has to say about being on the outs.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: More Cochran "Fun," and an examination on the awesomeness of Sophie.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Focusing on the Joe/Vince "feud." Apparently, Vince will get another entry all his own down the line. Also: cheap shot at Nina's deafness.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Colton tries to work with Tarzan. Also: Christina has no friends, and Leif can't put on a buff and a hat at the same time. Had Brad introduced himself to Survivor audiences by jacking Colton up, I think we'd like him a little more.

[Lamb18]

I copied part of a post I made in the Season 6 thread to this thread:

One thing about season 6 I noticed was the introduction of rope tunnels - rats, I can't remember the others - and other types of generic challenges that aren't related to the culture of the host country. Season 6, to me, shows the first weakening of the connection between the game and the country/environment in which it's played. The two weren't as closely related as they were in the first five seasons. Now this current season we're all watching, I feel no connection between the game and the country/culture it's in, except for some vaguely sentimental theme of pirates and shipwrecks. Culturally the show seems more tied to the Pirates of the Caribbean commercials I see repeatedly on CBS All Access when watching episodes than to the country the show is in. The connection between the show and its host country adds a depth to the series and loss of that connection makes me feel like I'm watching kids playing pirates or some other make believe game in a playground.

[peachmangosteen]

I imagine they don't connect the challenges to the country anymore because they use the same couple countries all the time now. 

[Lamb18]

That's what I think, too.

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Jeff Kent vs. Dawson. Completely forgot about her. Also, I still consider Barry Bonds to be a far larger asshole than Jeff. Had he busted on that swollen noggin like a pinata, I would not have held him back.

[enlightenedbum]

So they were talking about something on Andrea's post-show tonight that I thought was important.  Most Survivor seasons have some kind of master narrative, especially the good ones.  And usually there's someone to root for and someone to root against.  Examples:

S1: What is this game about, with Richard's alliance theory ultimately prevailing

S6: Cesternino dances around and manipulates alliances so that he gets to three

S12: The dysfunction but utter dominance of Casaya with Cirie gaining confidence as she went

S13: Aitu4 comeback and ultimate triumph

S14: Yau and Earl persevere against Ouch Camp, with the Last Temptation of Dreamz ultimately giving Earl the victory

S16: Cirie, Parvati, and Amanda make fools out of a whole bunch of morons

S20: Heroes are dumb and so is Russell.

Even some bad seasons have clear solid arcs (All-Stars being the Rob and Amber show, for example; the less you like them the more dire that season is)

But the really bad seasons are the ones where the arc is either non-existent (Nicaragua) or boring (no one challenges Boston Rob in RI).

I think this season falls into the latter: Sarah does stuff is the closest I can come to a consistent narrative here.  And since I think she is almost wholly without charisma, I think this is actually like my second least favorite (note: I have not seen either Blood vs. Water season or Kaoh Rang) with only Nicaragua being worse.

Edited May 18, 2017 by enlightenedbum

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, enlightenedbum said:

I think this season falls into the latter: Sarah does stuff is the closest I can come to a consistent narrative here.  And since I think she is almost wholly without charisma, I think this is actually like my second least favorite (note: I have not seen either Blood vs. Water season or Kaoh Rang) with only Nicaragua being worse.

Or maybe "People do really stupid things that get either themselves or an ally voted out" as a narrative for this season. I've seen more people taken out of this game by their own stupid moves (or that of an ally rebounding on them) than by anyone actually making strategic moves. This season is like Stooges Survivor. Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk.

I just rewatched Gabon. It was even worse than I remembered. I'm curious where it falls in your ranking?

By the end of Gabon, even though I knew how it ended, I was still hoping the jury would revolt and demand the the million dollars be given to the gorilla sanctuary. It's just painful to watch when the eventual winner is asked for one decision they made and their answer is, "I really didn't make any decisions." And the person who asked that question still votes for them.

Edited May 18, 2017 by simplyme

[enlightenedbum]

Gabon was real bad, yeah.  Of the first twenty, which are the ones I have the best memory of, it's bottom three with China and Thailand.

[Lantern7]

I didn't hate Bob. I'd like to think he's the guy Ozzy Osborne was singing about . . . "Mr. Crowley." And I honestly don't think Randy was a racist. To qualify, you'd have to dislike people from a specific race. In my head, Randy hated everybody. I don't think he measures up to the likes of Cumbie and Rocker. Now . . . Crystal? The epitome of sucking. She didn't even win her gold medal in the right manner, and three others got stripped of theirs because of her.

[LadyChatts]

Gabon is bottom 5 for me, and I don't think it'll ever fall out of that.  I loved the location, as I love the land locked locations every now and then, and I loved the first time they went to Africa (I think that season was filmed in Kenya?)  But location aside, it has one of the worst casts ever.  

[KimberStormer]

4 hours ago, enlightenedbum said:

But the really bad seasons are the ones where the arc is either non-existent (Nicaragua)

That was definitely Nicaragua to me: a non-narrative, a series of random events.  You might as well have rolled dice to determine who went home.  Might as well be Holly tonight.  Someone's gotta win, why not Fabio.

Gabon had a clear enough narrative for me: SUGAR THE DESTROYER running rampant over all the self-satisfied fools out there.  But I knew that going in so I could enjoy it.  It can be difficult to know what the story is while the show is on.  Like One World was "omg she really did that!" but in general it is not so clear what it's going to be.  Was Cambodia "Jeremy gets the job done" or "Kelley somehow above all odds"?  We couldn't really know til the last episode.  We hardly ever know if it's "this is how she won" or "this is how she lost"; I feel like that is the question with Sarah right now.

This is a medium season for me so far, most likely to fall in my estimation next week, but still, nowhere near the hip-deep shit-wading misery of Caramoan, Worlds Apart, etc.  PS @enlightenedbum watch San Juan Del Sur, you will like it and love the winner.

[simplyme]

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Now . . . Crystal? The epitome of sucking. She didn't even win her gold medal in the right manner, and three others got stripped of theirs because of her.

I tried hard to like Crystal and failed.

If it makes you feel better, the US team was not actually stripped of their gold medals. Only Crystal was. Apparently she ran in one of the preliminary heats but was not one of the four women who ran the final.

[peachmangosteen]

I will always love Crystal if only for her Randy voting confessional. Also, I liked her and Kenny's friendship. In general I love Gabon. I think it was a a fun season to watch. Worst winner ever though.

7 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

This is a medium season for me so far, most likely to fall in my estimation next week, but still, nowhere near the hip-deep shit-wading misery of Caramoan, Worlds Apart, etc. 

This.

I also second your suggestion to @enlightenedbum to watch San Juan Del Sur. It's fun and has a great winner.

[enlightenedbum]

Which number is that?  I have easy access to the ones on Prime, which is up to like 30 these days?

The other thing that went wrong with this season is that they cast a bunch of dud personalities and they ALL made top 9 except Caleb.  That's probably reasonably smart gameplay by the duds, but it makes for shitty TV.

Edited May 18, 2017 by enlightenedbum

[peachmangosteen]

I believe it's season 29.

[enlightenedbum]

Which is the oldest one not on Prime yet.  Boo.

[KimberStormer]

Well, whenever you get the chance.  It's a strangely edited season to be sure (almost a different show pre- and post-merge), but IMO a uniquely strong Final 3 with three people who got to the end semi-independently of each other and all had big impacts on how the season turned out (I would say 'game changing moves' but this season has ruined that term forever).  If I'm understanding Cirie's attempted move this week right I think it might have been partly inspired by something the SJDS winner does and I think it's high praise indeed for Cirie to be inspired by your Survivor idea.

[cooksdelight]

Have y'all seen Woo's commercials?

https://www.ispot.tv/topic/actor-actress/AlN/yung-woo-hwang

[Lantern7]

Two things:

1. The record-holders for most immunity wins in a season: Colby, Tom Westman, Terry, Ozzy (Cook Islands), Mike Holloway and Brad Friggin' Culpepper.

2. Who is your favorite four-timer? Mine is Cirie, and I would put her and Ozzy at the top. I know, Rob made it to Day 39 twice, but he missed the jury the other two times. Had Rupert not tossed himself under the bus in Blood Vs. Water, he would've been a contender.

[Daisy]

6 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Two things:

1. The record-holders for most immunity wins in a season: Colby, Tom Westman, Terry, Ozzy (Cook Islands), Mike Holloway and Brad Friggin' Culpepper.

2. Who is your favorite four-timer? Mine is Cirie, and I would put her and Ozzy at the top. I know, Rob made it to Day 39 twice, but he missed the jury the other two times. Had Rupert not tossed himself under the bus in Blood Vs. Water, he would've been a contender.

Cirie.
Ozzy... I don't know. I loved Ozzy (Cook Islands) but i hated him in Micronesia and in South Pacific. but i liked him here. 

But I can't tell a lie. i've always liked Rob. so it would be he + Cirie for me.