Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[Snow Apple]

I was watching the Growing Pains marathon last week and while I liked Carol back during it's first run, I find that I can't stand her all these years later. Everything was so overdramatic. Aaaaaand I just realized that she was a teenage Grace Adler.

[Katy M]

46 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I was watching the Growing Pains marathon last week and while I liked Carol back during it's first run, I find that I can't stand her all these years later. Everything was so overdramatic. Aaaaaand I just realized that she was a teenage Grace Adler.

I like early Carol better than later Carol because I feel like she gets whinier and more entitled as time goes on.  

[Blergh]

While I can't say I liked Carol on Growing Pains that much, I ALWAYS thought she was  FAR more likable than Mike who IMO was a snot from Day One to her and every other member of his family and acquaintances. I think Carol, Ben's and even Chrissys's lives would have been vastly improved had their parents actually called him on said snottiness with consequences instead of just constantly shrugging it off  to show how 'hip' parents they were via supposed to be. Based on how often they let Mike get away with stuff, I think Jason should have been disbarred as a child psychiatrist (and Maggie should have been blessed out at Jason's disbarment hearing). 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Blergh
a

[Snow Apple]

Mike being a jerk goes without saying although he improved in the later seasons. But knowing the real life reason for the change prevents me from liking him even though Mike is fictional.

[Bort]

7 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Mike being a jerk goes without saying although he improved in the later seasons. But knowing the real life reason for the change prevents me from liking him even though Mike is fictional.

Which is why I vastly preferred early Mike to later Mike. Most actors have different beliefs and cultures, you don't see them insisting on it being integrated into the characters they play. That's why they call it "acting."

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Mike being a jerk goes without saying although he improved in the later seasons. But knowing the real life reason for the change prevents me from liking him even though Mike is fictional.

Me too. I can't stand the actor since then and still can't. Its hard to watch him back before he became such an asshole or watch his character improve and know it wasn't character growth or anything. Nope, it was Kirk found Jesus and decided to become an asshole. Its hard to forget him trying to get an actress fired and causing problems with producers. Or him going onto and continues to make his bad and heavily slanted Christian movies.

[Bort]

8 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Its hard to forget him trying to get an actress fired and causing problems with producers.

There was no try, he DID get her fired.

[andromeda331]

9 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

There was no try, he DID get her fired.

He did get her fired? I know he tried I didn't know he was actually successful. What an asshole! 

[Wiendish Fitch]

36 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He did get her fired? I know he tried I didn't know he was actually successful. What an asshole! 

Mike Seaver is an asshole, Kirk Cameron is an asshole, that's all there is to it. And, yes, I will always hate Cameron for getting that poor actress fired. I don't think her career ever recovered. What a sanctimonious shit. 

And, no, Jesus would not have done that.

[salmondean]

39 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He did get her fired? I know he tried I didn't know he was actually successful. What an asshole! 

Yes, he couldn't get over the fact that she dared to appear in Playboy before being on the show. iirc, several producers on the show quit soon after because the unbearable Kirk Cameron called the then-president of ABC and accused them of being porn peddlers. He's such a tool. 

[Snow Apple]

The worse part of the actress getting fired was they made her appear for one more episode. I guess the audience missed her and they made her come back for "closure." She didn't want to but I think she was still under contract. Can you imagine being forced to act one more time with the asshole who got you fired?

Edited December 1, 2018 by Snow Apple

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Mike Seaver is an asshole, Kirk Cameron is an asshole, that's all there is to it. And, yes, I will always hate Cameron for getting that poor actress fired. I don't think her career ever recovered. What a sanctimonious shit. 

And, no, Jesus would not have done that.

Yep, I NEVER thought that Mr. Cameron had to stretch as an actor to play that part- and it's telling that even when he claimed to have become 'born again', he didn't lift a finger to attempt to persuade TPTB to have the character he was playing NOT be  any less snotty than before but he seemed to refuse to believe that anyone else (e.g, that performer he insisted get fired) could possibly try to improve themselves regardless of whatever venues they may have been in beforehand. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Blergh
to be

[Spartan Girl]

On December 1, 2018 at 1:01 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Mike Seaver is an asshole, Kirk Cameron is an asshole, that's all there is to it. And, yes, I will always hate Cameron for getting that poor actress fired. I don't think her career ever recovered. What a sanctimonious shit. 

And, no, Jesus would not have done that.

PREACH IT!

Speaking of santimonious, narrow minded, self righteous religious assholes: I hate Ned Flanders. His mealy-mouthed "nice guy persona" can't quite cover how he uses religion to look down on Lisa for believing in science/evolution and Apu for being Hindu. He's basically the male version of what Marge has become.

[Drogo]

Reminder: This topic is about CHARACTERS we hate. Not actors, and certainly not fans. 

[Katy M]

I've been watching The Closer, and I decided I hate Brenda. I don't see what Fritz sees in her.  She takes him for granted, barely notices his existence if he isn't doing something for her, and is completely obsessed with her job to the exclusion of all else.  She even ignores her aging parents on their infrequent visits.

[Raja]

20 hours ago, Katy M said:

I've been watching The Closer, and I decided I hate Brenda. I don't see what Fritz sees in her.  She takes him for granted, barely notices his existence if he isn't doing something for her, and is completely obsessed with her job to the exclusion of all else.  She even ignores her aging parents on their infrequent visits.

Lieutenant Flynn knows, it's her legs. Along with a slim body for somebody an socially appropriate age for him. As a person she is on the same level as Doctor Gregory House

[Snow Apple]

I've been watching Bunk'd on the Disney channel and I can't stand Zuri. I usually don't mind the "sassy" one but Zuri is just mean and unpleasant without the humor like similar characters of that type.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Snow Apple

[Spartan Girl]

Nearly all the adults in A Series of Unfortunate Events can be split into three teams: incompetent idiots, assholes, or both. I personally feel that Mr. Poe belongs to the third group. He is not only stupid, but more or less completely indifferent to the Baudelaires' problems. Never stands up for them, never listens to them, never apologizes for when he doesn't listen to them...you get the idea. The man is just the worst -- even worse than he was in the books, and that's no easy feat.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[topanga]

On 12/19/2018 at 6:43 PM, Snow Apple said:

I've been watching Bunk'd on the Disney channel and I can't stand Zuri. I usually don't mind the "sassy" one but Zuri is just mean and unpleasant without the humor like similar characters of that type.

She didn’t used to be. On Jessie, she was still written as ‘sassy’—as many black female characters are, but she was really sweet—she wasn’t mean at all. But now that I think about it,  most of the kids on Bunk’d are written to me mean and bratty. 

[PumpkinLumpkin]

I absolutely hate Violet on Mom.

I've been watching Mom on Nick@Nite and thank god the writers dropped the kids from the show paticularly the insufferably bitchy teenager daughter Violet. Good lord! I hated her character. What a nasty miserable character. Alway mopey, complaining and so smug and arrogant. The way she rudley disrespects Anna Faris's character is appalling.

[Blergh]

20 hours ago, PumpkinLumpkin said:

I absolutely hate Violet on Mom.

I've been watching Mom on Nick@Nite and thank god the writers dropped the kids from the show paticularly the insufferably bitchy teenager daughter Violet. Good lord! I hated her character. What a nasty miserable character. Alway mopey, complaining and so smug and arrogant. The way she rudley disrespects Anna Faris's character is appalling.

What do you think of Riley Matthews of Girl Meets World? She was often incredibly bratty, nosy,entitled and even downright mean to her parents and her friends. Yet the sad part is that virtually no one on the show ever called her on her stuff just kept telling her she was so nice,quirky and wonderful but only rarely did she come close to living up to their and her own hype. Of course what's sad is that she was the central character of the show. I guess the goal was tween audience wish-fulfillment .  But then BMW had been like a candied apple with a sugary outside but with a nutritious core whereas GMW was a pure Twinkie!

[Luckylyn]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

What do you think of Riley Matthews of Girl Meets World? She was often incredibly bratty, nosy,entitled and even downright mean to her parents and her friends. Yet the sad part is that virtually no one on the show ever called her on her stuff just kept telling her she was so nice,quirky and wonderful but only rarely did she come close to living up to their and her own hype. Of course what's sad is that she was the central character of the show. I guess the goal was tween audience wish-fulfillment .  But then BMW had been like a candied apple with a sugary outside but with a nutritious core whereas GMW was a pure Twinkie!

I still hold a grudge towards her eating Zay’s cookie after he finished saying it might be his last one from his Grandmother because she was getting older.  Then she insists he has to forgive her to show he’s a good person despite her showing no remorse.   She never apologizes even though he’s visibly upset.   

Riley got on my nerves and made the people around her look bad because they enabled her.   They acted like she needed constant protection from the bad side of reality.  Her reaction to someone not liking her as if she couldn’t comprehend it and laying on the floor crying was horrible.  Then Lucas had to carry her to class which lead to the funny part where Zay offers to carry Maya and Smarkle offers to carry Farkle who was too heavy for her.  That  was the only part that amused me.  

Things always had to work out for Riley even if it’s unearned like trying out for the cheerleading squad.  She had no training or skills and was clearly in danger of injury for herself and others.  I thought it would end with them making her squad fund raiser or equipment manager which would have been a reasonable compromise between her enthusiasm for cheerleading and lack of physical ability.  But no she’s on the squad despite being terrible and potentially dangerous because Riley wants it so badly.  She doesn’t even take any classes to improve her skills.  She wants to be on the team but doesn’t do any of the work needed to get better. She just keeps showing up to audition and wears the coach down.  She didn’t have to earn it through seeking out proper training or accept she was terrible and be forced to deal with failure.  Being persistent to get a position while refusing to get the training to get a position isn’t admirable especially when lack of training can cause injury.  The only time that kind of story works is if the requirements for a position are unfair which it was  not in this case.  She couldn’t do the most basic skills.

I get that I wasn’t the age group being targeted and I watched out of nostalgia because I grew up with Boy Meets World.   I think Boy Meets World was better at calling characters on their crap even though it was a comedy that could be ridiculous at times.  

 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Luckylyn said:

I get that I wasn’t the age group being targeted and I watched out of nostalgia because I grew up with Boy Meets World.  

I find it worse since this show was geared towards children. It just shows them that no matter how horrible you are, if you want something you should get it rather than teaching them that you can't always get whatever you want but it is okay because there are other great things out there. 

Like you said, with the cheer leading, what is that showing kids? That if they want to be something they can be it even if they are completely unqualified. That is a dangerous life lesson. Where would we be if the person who wanted to be a doctor really really bad got the job over the person who busted their ass to do well in med school and actually knows what they are doing? 

I know that is an extreme example, but I hated how Riley just got everything she wanted just because she wanted it. It wasn't Girl Meets World, it was Girl Manipulates World because she's a spoiled brat. 

Just adding, she was probably my least favorite character on the show. Though I think Ava is just slightly above her in the rankings. I also loved Zay, so when she took his cookie (one of the worst things she did) I was completely over her. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Mabinogia

[Luckylyn]

@Mabinogia The cheerleading thing in particular was problematic because she was so blatantly unqualified and showed no signs she was willing to do the work to become qualified.  She really was a danger to the other girls on the team because Riley didn’t know what she was doing.  It was framed as the coach is so mean and Riley should get what she wants because she’s persistant about demanding it.  Yes the coach was mean but that wasn’t why she didn’t want Riley on the team.  It was because Riley was horrible and couldn’t even do a cartwheel without hurting herself.   You’re right it does send a bad message to kids that you should get what you want even if you aren’t qualified just because you want it.   If the episode had ended with Riley deciding to take some classes and vowing to audition the next year that would have been a better way to show the importance of persistence.  Persistance shouldn’t mean bugging someone until they give you an undeserved chance.  Let her do the work, actually improve, and then reward her.  

[Mabinogia]

57 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

If the episode had ended with Riley deciding to take some classes and vowing to audition the next year that would have been a better way to show the importance of persistence.  Persistance shouldn’t mean bugging someone until they give you an undeserved chance.  Let her do the work, actually improve, and then reward her.

Well said. Persistence is going back and making the effort to improve. Not just begging for what you want and calling people mean if they don't just give it to you. 

Ironically enough, I'm watching Making the Team (Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader tryouts show) and there are many girls who don't make the team the first time, who go on to take more dance lessons, improve their performance or whatever else they were told was the reason they didn't make it. Some make it and it feels all the better because they earned it. Some don't make it and are sad but pick themselves up and either try again next year or move on to a new dream. That is a good lesson. If you want something badly enough, work for it but if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of your life. There are many dreams out there. 

The worst of it is, for all her "I need to be on this team" Riley doesn't seem the type who would stick with anything. She gets what she wants then she wants something else. Horrible example to set for young girls. 

I often wonder what kids, the target audience, thought of her. Did they look up to her? Want to be like her? That is scary lol

I am trying to think back to who my peers would have been on TV when I was a young girl but I was odd. I watched old black and white shows on Nick at Nite and soap operas, when I was little. The closest I can come up with is Little House, but I didn't like Laura, I liked Nellie better, so maybe I shouldn't talk about positive role models lol .

[DearEvette]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

What do you think of Riley Matthews of Girl Meets World?

Geez.  I never even once watched a single episode of the show and y'all made me utterly loathe this character through description alone.  LOL.  It sounds like she hits a lot of my 'ugh, entitled!' triggers.

[callie lee 29]

I think the older I get , the less tolerance I have towards bratty/bitchy characters, the Belcher children from Bobs Burgers being high on the list and a perfect example.  Honest to god the fact that  Bob hasn’t gone off and kicked all of them out or ran off with Marshmallow is a constant surprise! 
 

•Wierdly, I still love It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.•

[kathyk2]

On 12/18/2018 at 8:26 PM, Katy M said:

I've been watching The Closer, and I decided I hate Brenda. I don't see what Fritz sees in her.  She takes him for granted, barely notices his existence if he isn't doing something for her, and is completely obsessed with her job to the exclusion of all else.  She even ignores her aging parents on their infrequent visits.

I loved Brenda and hated Fritz. I thought his behavior was passive aggressive and not telling her about his alcoholism would have been a deal breaker for me. Brenda's parents showing up at crime scenes was stupid and would never be tolerated in real life. I thought the segments about Brenda's personal life were the weakest part of the closer.

[Featherhat]

16 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Things always had to work out for Riley even if it’s unearned like trying out for the cheerleading squad.  She had no training or skills and was clearly in danger of injury for herself and others.  I thought it would end with them making her squad fund raiser or equipment manager which would have been a reasonable compromise between her enthusiasm for cheerleading and lack of physical ability.

I wasn't a fan of the character from the little I watched of the show but this reminded me of something that always bugged me growing up watching US shows. 

I come from a country that doesn't have a big cheerleading tradition, there is some but absolutely nothing like it is in the US and I was always so confused about joining the squad storylines. Half the time characters would say they wanted to join without any kind of dance or gymnastic training or interests or other characters would suggest characters should join about 2 minutes after meeting them with no idea of their skills. And it didn't look like something you could learn in a few after school practices with all the flips and tricks they did.

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I wasn't a fan of the character from the little I watched of the show but this reminded me of something that always bugged me growing up watching US shows. 

I come from a country that doesn't have a big cheerleading tradition, there is some but absolutely nothing like it is in the US and I was always so confused about joining the squad storylines. Half the time characters would say they wanted to join without any kind of dance or gymnastic training or interests or other characters would suggest characters should join about 2 minutes after meeting them with no idea of their skills. And it didn't look like something you could learn in a few after school practices with all the flips and tricks they did.

That’s a good point.  I think there’s a false idea that cheerleading is easy and it is not taken as seriously as a sport as it should.  Even with training there’s a risk of injury so someone with no training really shouldn’t be trying out.  Now I’m having flashbacks to that episode of One Tree Hill where Hayley learns the cheerleading routine in one weekend to act as an emergency fill in.  In real life someone with zero gymnastics or dance training probably couldn’t just learn the routine to competition readiness in one weekend.  This is one thing I really like about the movie Bring It On.  It makes it clear cheerleading is a competitive sport requiring skills and practice.

I kinda hated Lucas on OTH during the Hayley starts dating Nathan and joins the cheerleading squad stuff because he’s so nasty to her over it.  Lucas could be so condescending and even hypocritical sometimes.  It’s okay for him to play basketball and date cheerleaders but his friend can’t date a basketball player and join the cheerleading squad.  I get his pissiness is more about his feelings towards Nathan than Hayley but she didn’t deserve to be the one he takes his brother issues out on.  Plus I think he was threatened by Hayley befriending the popular girls because he liked having Hayley to himself.  I don’t think he liked sharing her attention with Nathan and the cheerleaders.

The character I hated most on OTH was Dan.  The second he killed Keith I had no interest in Dan beyond wanting him dead.  I love that the show used CMM unwillingness to return for the finale to have Lucas refuse to see Dan before he died. He deserved someone not showing him any mercy. I hated that he made it to the final season and got Angel Keith escorting him to the afterlife.  Dan never deserved that.  He was a selfish jerk, an emotional abusive father and brother murderer.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Luckylyn

[Blergh]

16 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Well said. Persistence is going back and making the effort to improve. Not just begging for what you want and calling people mean if they don't just give it to you. 

Ironically enough, I'm watching Making the Team (Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader tryouts show) and there are many girls who don't make the team the first time, who go on to take more dance lessons, improve their performance or whatever else they were told was the reason they didn't make it. Some make it and it feels all the better because they earned it. Some don't make it and are sad but pick themselves up and either try again next year or move on to a new dream. That is a good lesson. If you want something badly enough, work for it but if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of your life. There are many dreams out there. 

The worst of it is, for all her "I need to be on this team" Riley doesn't seem the type who would stick with anything. She gets what she wants then she wants something else. Horrible example to set for young girls. 

I often wonder what kids, the target audience, thought of her. Did they look up to her? Want to be like her? That is scary lol

I am trying to think back to who my peers would have been on TV when I was a young girl but I was odd. I watched old black and white shows on Nick at Nite and soap operas, when I was little. The closest I can come up with is Little House, but I didn't like Laura, I liked Nellie better, so maybe I shouldn't talk about positive role models lol .

Ironically, Riley reminded me a bit of Nellie Oleson in that she was often bratty and had a disproportionately big bedroom while her parents seemed to have slept in a broom closet despite them being the ones paying the mortgage/lease! Oh, and the die seemed to have been cast when the very first episode both parents caught her about to climb out the Bay Window with her bestie Maya- and ALL they did was treat her attempted sneaking out without permission as though it was a rite of passage along the lines of her having passed her LSAT to follow in Topanga's footsteps- NOT attempt to mete out any consequences. Bleh! 

OK,  you   covered the her eating Zay's grandma's cookie without remorse THEN demanding/guilting instant forgiveness and you all make excellent points  about how her ridiculous entitlement re getting onto the cheerleading squad not only told a TERRIBLE lesson to the minor viewers but potentially put all the other squad members in physical danger (and, curiously ,there never was a single depiction or reference to her cheerleading again the rest of the series so I think it's likely she dropped it the second she got bored). However; I think one of her worst moves she made that truly needed to be called on was when she pestered/guilted her bestie Maya to reach out to her deadbeat dad JUST so Maya could use that for the class forgiveness project. I don't care how loudly she'd declared oneself to be a sister, bestie,etc., this dealt with Maya's own life and Maya's own family so    whether or not Maya decided to forgive him was something that should have been MAYA's  own call that Riley (as the friend she was supposed to be) should have respected even if she disagreed with it. Yes, Sabrina Carpenter gave one of her best performances in the role as Maya catharticly  confronted him after all that time and, yes, he deserved what she said. However, that doesn't erase the fact that Riley completely flouted Maya's boundaries and truly Maya should have let her have it for having done but instead she (as usual) just heaped more unworthy praise on Riley. 

 

 Riley and Maya seemed a lot like Laverne and Shirley- inasmuch as Laverne and Maya both were nicer than they wanted others to think while Riley and Shirley both wanted others to think they were nicer than they actually were!

 Obnoxious and annoying characters in themselves aren't totally without merit in TV shows but like Nellie Oleson needed Laura to call her on her stuff and Phyllis Lindstrom needed Rhoda and Mother Dexter to do the same, SOMEONE needed to call Riley on her  stuff . Alas, all the regulars  just worshiped her so, unlike all the other teen characters on the show, she didn't grow or improve as a person but just became more entitled. 

[Luckylyn]

They framed things so Maya was a bad girl and Riley was the good one.  The show was so married to that dynamic that it was considered bad when Maya was getting good grades and not getting in trouble.  Everyone acted like it was some sort of crisis and complaining Maya was trying to be good like Riley.   I hated that whole storyline.  In the end Maya was a better person than Riley.  Also @Blergh Riley was weirdly controlling  and meddlesome in Maya’s life.  She was always interfering behind Maya’s back or pressuring her in some way.  Like telling Shawn where Maya’s Mom worked or criticizing Maya for getting good grades because why?!

Edited June 2, 2020 by Luckylyn

[DearEvette]

7 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I come from a country that doesn't have a big cheerleading tradition, there is some but absolutely nothing like it is in the US and I was always so confused about joining the squad storylines. Half the time characters would say they wanted to join without any kind of dance or gymnastic training or interests or other characters would suggest characters should join about 2 minutes after meeting them with no idea of their skills. And it didn't look like something you could learn in a few after school practices with all the flips and tricks they did.

That is understandable because not all cheerleading is created equal.  At some schools, being on the squad all you need to do is literally cheer for the team and be peppy.  You don't need to be particularly athletic, but you do need to know how to follow a beat, yell in cadence and be cute. In other places, cheerleading is more athletic.  You actually need to have to some real gymnastic ability with considerable body strenght. 

It also ranges from an extra-curricular fun thing that is purely in school to being a rules based competitive sport. 

In some schools, it remains all female with a decidedly cool-girl female aesthetic attached and at others there is a mixed male/female squad -- those tend to be the more competitive/athletic ones.

Some schools divide their squads into a cheer group (athletic) and a dance group.

Professional cheerleaders for NBA and NFL teams veer toward being more dance squads.

Edited May 26, 2020 by DearEvette

[supposebly]

Being from a country where the only cheering comes from the audience, I'll never understand cheer-leading.

Why do American athletes need cheering so much? And why does it have to be from girls wearing skirts that barely count as such?

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 minutes ago, supposebly said:

Being from a country where the only cheering comes from the audience, I'll never understand cheer-leading.

Why do American athletes need cheering so much? And why does it have to be from girls wearing skirts that barely count as such?

I'm American, and I still can't figure out why.

Back to the subject of bratty kid characters, I think they're arguably more tolerable if they're deliberately written as bratty (Nellie Oleson), as opposed to characters who are framed as charming and wonderful, when in fact they're anything but (Riley Matthews, Michelle Tanner).

[Ambrosefolly]

41 minutes ago, supposebly said:

Being from a country where the only cheering comes from the audience, I'll never understand cheer-leading.

Why do American athletes need cheering so much? And why does it have to be from girls wearing skirts that barely count as such?

Cheerleading actually used to be a boy's sport where they would try to get the audience to be more enthusiastic about cheering on the team, probably needed when the team was doing badly and needed encouragement, but when World War 2 hit, many collegiate men were drafted into the war and like with many industries, women filled in. Unlike many industries, it never changed back. Probably the T&A aspect for the men. There is a movie, A League of Their Own (set during WWII), where women who were recruited to play in the Women's Professional Baseball League, were forced to wear skirts while playing baseball, despite how impractical they were, in order to give something extra to the men. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[supposebly]

10 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Cheerleading actually used to be a boy's sport where they would try to get the audience to be more enthusiastic about cheering on the team, probably needed when the team was doing badly and needed encouragement, but when World War 2 hit, many collegiate men were drafted into the war and like with many industries, women filled in.

So, these days, do female sports teams get a cheer-leading squad? And would they be female or male or co-ed?

[Mabinogia]

8 hours ago, Blergh said:

Ironically, Riley reminded me a bit of Nellie Oleson in that she was often bratty and had a disproportionately big bedroom while her parents seemed to have slept in a broom closet despite them being the ones paying the mortgage/lease!

The difference for me is that the show acknowledged that Nellie was a horror. We were supposed to see her as the "bad seed". If GMW took the stance that Riley really was a self absorbed, spoiled, entitled brat she wouldn't have bothered me so much, but I got the impression the show expected us to love her and be charmed with her and side with her. 

 

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

(Riley Matthews, Michelle Tanner).

Ugh, Michelle Tanner! Never was their a child I wanted to punch in the face more than Michelle Tanner (because she's fictional. I would never want to punch an actual child.) I could not stand Michelle Tanner. 

[roamyn]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Cheerleading actually used to be a boy's sport where they would try to get the audience to be more enthusiastic about cheering on the team, probably needed when the team was doing badly and needed encouragement, but when World War 2 hit, many collegiate men were drafted into the war and like with many industries, women filled in. Unlike many industries, it never changed back. Probably the T&A aspect for the men. There is a movie, A League of Their Own (set during WWII), where women who were recruited to play in the Women's Professional Baseball League, were forced to wear skirts while playing baseball, despite how impractical they were, in order to give something extra to the men. 

There used to be women’s college baseball in the late 1800s, but they still had to wear long skirts.  Some would wear wide bloomers.  There were so any injuries that women were banned from playing until the 1920s.

[Ambrosefolly]

47 minutes ago, roamyn said:

There used to be women’s college baseball in the late 1800s, but they still had to wear long skirts.  Some would wear wide bloomers.  There were so any injuries that women were banned from playing until the 1920s.

Another fun fact: women's sports were very popular before the age of televisions, because men wanted to see any sports game and didn't have the benefit of watching a men's baseball game played in California while in Maine.

Back to the topic: I agree about Riley and the show confused persisted with pestered. With Eric and Shawn on BMW, the arcs with them growing up often dealt with them being told if they wanted something or to move onto the next level, it would require work.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[meep.meep]

5 hours ago, supposebly said:

Being from a country where the only cheering comes from the audience, I'll never understand cheer-leading.

Why do American athletes need cheering so much? And why does it have to be from girls wearing skirts that barely count as such?

The whole point of American cheer leaders is to provide scantily clad women/girls for the men in the audience to ogle during the slow parts of the game.  We tend to like sports that have a lot of down time like American football and baseball.

High school girls basketball was a huge sport in the mid-west for a while.

[ratgirlagogo]

8 hours ago, meep.meep said:

High school girls basketball was a huge sport in the mid-west for a while.

I'm under the impression that high school basketball and football are STILL huge in the Midwest, at least from what my family there tells me.

[meep.meep]

It was the girls basketball that was/is wildly popular in addition to the usual boys sports.

[Dr.OO7]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:51 PM, Spartan Girl said:

PREACH IT!

Speaking of santimonious, narrow minded, self righteous religious assholes: I hate Ned Flanders. His mealy-mouthed "nice guy persona" can't quite cover how he uses religion to look down on Lisa for believing in science/evolution and Apu for being Hindu. He's basically the male version of what Marge has become.

I especially hate him in that episode where his house is destroyed by a tornado and the community bands together to build him a new one. It turns out to be a piece of crap and he blows up at everyone. 

Hey, maybe if you hadn't been so unbelievably fucking stupid and irresponsible so as to not have insurance--"It's a form of gambling!"--maybe you could have afforded to repair your house or buy a new one instead of having the gall to blame the townspeople--who, for all their idiotic ways, were genuinely trying to help you--for your misfortune. That bit where he yelled at Marge, "My family can't live off of your good intentions!" is infuriating. You mean the family that YOU failed to provide for?

There's also the Fridge Horror of wondering what other kinds of insurance he doesn't have because of his idiotic beliefs--car (which is flat-out illegal), health, life, etc.

[Blergh]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:20 AM, Luckylyn said:

They framed things so Maya was a bad girl and Riley was the good one.  The show was so married to that dynamic that it was considered bad when Maya was getting good grades and not getting in trouble.  Everyone acted like it was some sort of crisis and complaining Maya was trying to be good like Riley.   I hated that whole storyline.  In the end Maya was a better person than Riley.  Also @Blergh Riley was weirdly controlling  and meddlesome in Maya’s life.  She was always interfering behind Maya’s back or pressuring her in some way.  Like telling Shawn where Maya’s worked or criticizing Maya for getting good grades because why?!

Totally agree here! I can't help but think that for all the chin deep 'Riley's SO wonderful and flawless (albeit quirky) and we'll love each other no matter what and  have the ultimately perfect bond forever and ever' declarations that were  made virtually every single episode (sometimes  frequently during said episodes)- as opposed to a single time during those ' very special episodes', rather than having me convinced that there was no way they'd never be not be the chummiest of friends, actually got me to think that they were actually a bit insecure in their bond. The most sincere (and secure) friends do NOT need to make these declarations ad nauseum but those who are insecure  in their bonds and/or in themselves often DO. Moreover, it seemed possible to me that the more intelligent and deeper than she let on Maya was on the verge of coming to the conclusion that  the less-smart and-shallower-than-she-wanted-others-to-think Riley was NOT 'all that' and  was ready to at least consider dialing  things down to a civil acquaintanceship if not try to see if she'd bloom entirely on her own sans Riley  but hadn't quite worked up the means to throw off the tons of guilt Riley had buried her with down the years!  Yes, I  grant that all the above sounds a bit cynical but more than once I've encountered folks who endlessly heaped infinite praise for each other only to  wind up having become totally sick and over each other not too long afterwards. Seriously, how was this considered a healthy much less realistic bond for tween viewers at home to want to admire or  emulate (to say nothing of how was this considered in any way entertaining)? 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Blergh

[QueerGirrl]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:12 PM, supposebly said:

So, these days, do female sports teams get a cheer-leading squad? And would they be female or male or co-ed?

All sports teams, male or female, gets the cheer leading squad cheering for them on the High School and Collegiate level.  For example, where I went to college, there are various male and female sports teams.  There is one cheer leading squad and they cheer for all the them.  Don't forget many cheer leading squads have boys/young men as well.

To stay on topic, I agree with PumkinLumpkin regarding Violet's character on Mom.  She was horrible from jump and never got better.  I understood her anger and disappointment with her mom (Christy), but she was insufferable. 

[Ubiquitous]

On 8/21/2018 at 10:30 PM, Snow Apple said:

I've been watching reruns of Alice and I decided l can't stand the title character. She acts like she's a saint but is always trying to make Mel the villain when most of what he does is actually reasonable, like putting in a time clock.

Ugh! Alice was the worst, especially when she did an obligatory singing or dance routine, which seemed to happen at least once a month. 

 

On 8/31/2018 at 3:00 PM, Neko said:

Anyway, here is a UO: sometime around season nine or ten, Lisa Simpson became the character I loathed.  So sanctimonious and preachy.  Before then, she was believable as a character with passion and convictions, but then, she could not shut up about what other people shouldn't be doing.  I haven't watched the show in years, so I don't know if she is still like that, but it's a shame that my very favorite character from the start of the show became a finger-wagging stereotype.  I was the same age as Lisa when the show started, and it was awesome to see a young, female character be so forward-thinking and intelligent.  What happened?

I think that happened around the time they got Paul McCartney and Linda, his wife, but only by agreeing to make Lisa a vegetarian. 

 

On 9/22/2018 at 10:38 AM, andromeda331 said:

I can't believe I forgot about Cora Beth! She was horrible. I disliked John Boy he always seemed like he thought he was better then everyone else. They also kept treating him like he was suppose to be so smart but he never really came off any smarter then the rest of his siblings.

Oh gawd, Johnboy was a total Mary Sue.

On 12/1/2018 at 6:55 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Personally, I think all the characters on Will & Grace deserve nothing less than a shovel to the head.

And now they're in their 50s, and somehow they haven't outgrown their petty, immature, selfish behavior! Yay.

I never understood the appeal of the chars on Will & Grace. It got old real fast.

[Ambrosefolly]

Jason Morgan from General Hospital. His Mary Sueness is so pervasive that I think that the Mary Sue counterpart, Marty Stu or Gary Stu, should be renamed in his honor. Watch the YouTube clip with former head writer Robert Guza and Steve Burton, Jason Morgan's portrayer, you can totally see that Jason is Robert's Guza Mary Sue:his ideal self and there to fulfill his power fantasy vs telling a story. Even when the guy is stealing other people's wives and biological son, he still written as the hero. The guy works as a hitman and even the soap press says that "he only kills bad people" despite the times his boss, Sonny Cornithos, has openly talked about or given the order about killing people the audience knows are innocent.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Jason Morgan from General Hospital. His Mary Sueness is so pervasive that I think that the Mary Sue counterpart, Marty Stu or Gary Stu, should be renamed in his honor. Watch the YouTube clip with former head writer Robert Guza and Steve Burton, Jason Morgan's portrayer, you can totally see that Jason is Robert's Guza Mary Sue:his ideal self and there to fulfill his power fantasy vs telling a story. Even when the guy is stealing other people's wives and biological son, he still written as the hero. The guy works as a hitman and even the soap press says that "he only kills bad people" despite the times his boss, Sonny Cornithos, has openly talked about or given the order about killing people the audience knows are innocent.

I hated him, Sonny and Carly. All three were such horrible people. Jason and Sonny killed people, were in the mob, stole other people's wives and kids. But oh no they were the "heroes" Ah no they're murdering assholes. Carly of course with all the crap she's pulled. They were the reason I finally quit General Hospital. I was so sick of them. Still haven't let it go that Jason stole his brother's kid because he decided AJ wasn't good enough to raise his own kid. But you know being raised by a mob hitman with bodyguards is so much better. Then Sonny end up raising him when he and Carly got together and forced AJ to give up his parental rights. By holding him in a meat locker. But yeah, Sonny's the "good" guy. 

[Blergh]

17 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

Ugh! Alice was the worst, especially when she did an obligatory singing or dance routine, which seemed to happen at least once a month. 

 

 

 

Oh gawd, Johnboy was a total Mary Sue.

 

Yeah, and I felt sorry for Vera especially since SHE was the one who wound up covering for Alice (and Flo, then Flo's successors) when Alice and/Flo,etc. would dash off to do. ..whatever then Alice would guilt Mel for actually expecting her to put in a full day of work to help the four of them earn their livelihoods. 

And, ironically, it seemed his sibs actually GREW as people once John Boy was no longer their hovering over their every move and expecting them to worship him for writing about them.

Oh, while we're on the subject of The Waltons, another entitled sib that bugged me (especially in the early years since she DID improve towards the end) was Mary Ellen. There was one episode in which all the sibs were expected to help harvest an orchard to get paid monies they needed and some record producer guy approached her about. .. folk music and she just took off with him  over her family's objections to try to find older and more traditional mountaineers who could sing these otherwise undocumented folk  songs.  After he found the right singers, he dropped her back off with the family. Here's the kicker, instead of everyone being furious that she took off with this stranger (and therefore potentially put herself at SERIOUS risk for crimes against her person if not being killed/kidnapped  by this adult man who was a total stranger to boot), AND left the other sibs holding the bag to do her share of the work. When John, Sr. doled out the monies he'd gotten for the harvest from the orchard owner, he divvied it up among the six but not Mary Ellen. .. and the other sibs felt BAD for Mary Ellen and insisted that she get all of their funds despite the fact that THEY had worked the whole time and she'd taken off and put herself at serious risk, etc. ALL because Mary Ellen felt blue that this record producer guy didn't somehow think she was worth becoming his permanent assistant . And believe it or not, John actually got guilted into giving her ALL the harvest  monies AND sending her to visit an never before/since mentioned offscreen aunt living in Washington, D.C. so she could get cheered up via sightseeing!  Really?  In what galaxy could this have happened?!That ranked right up there with the Ingalls parents shrugging off Mary pretending to lose her new glasses until she got over being bothered by Nellie calling her 'Four-Eyes'!