Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

She has mentioned that she wants to be able to pull Bryn out of her current school in favor of home-schooling her. Her reasoning was that she wants to be able to take Bryn on trips whenever she (Beth) wants to.

Also, if she has sole legal custody, I believe she could consent to have Bryn filmed for the show. 

I don't necessarily think the 1st point above would be bad.  I mean she has the resources to give Bryn a good education and she isn't a Duggar!  The 2nd point I hope she never brings Bryn on the show.  I don't like that kids are on it because they cannot consent to be on tv and perhaps they would prefer not to be.

Kids don't need more trips than they already have. Bethenny is just looking for photo opportunities to show paparazzi see-what-a-great-mother-I-am and look-at-how-I-can-squeeze-into-Brynn's-Mickey-Mouse-tshirt.  

Brynn doesn't need to be home-schooled or rather, home-tutored with a paid teacher.  Let her be a kid with friends in her class and neighborhood. She won't have another chance with a mother who's sssooooooo....bbbbuusssyyyyy... with her 3 reality shows, her silly jeans... her Skinny Girl products and all the rest.  You saw Bethenny cry about her oh-so-hectic life.  

 

As we all suspected, Bethenny will probably be on the cover of PEOPLE magazine this week... 

[Jeanne222]

Those two still aren't divorced?  I quit watching the show once Bethany returned!  She's a real piece of work.  Her mouths like a Tommy gun!

[biakbiak]

25 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Those two still aren't divorced?  I quit watching the show once Bethany returned!  She's a real piece of work.  Her mouths like a Tommy gun!

They are divorced, Bethenny reopened the custody case.

[Happy Camper]

1 hour ago, b2H said:

4. Bethenny was shown on a heavily-edited reality show being drunk and naked, neither of which is illegal and Brynn wasn't there, so there's nothing against B the judge can consider

Isn't this the reason why Tamra's daughter stopped speaking to her? She was embarrassed by her mother's antics and begged her to stop, but Tamra was so addicted to the cameras and attention that she chose those over her daughter. 

I wonder if Bethenny would do the same should Bryn give her an ultimatum? I would hope that Bethenny would be done with these shenanigans before it starts to embarrass Bryn.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, b2H said:

I would love to see the judge straighten both of these vipers out, suggesting that one more time in court puts Brynn into foster care until these two grow up to be responsible adults instead of grenade-lobbing toddlers.  

Are you saying the judge should make an empty threat to put Bryn in foster care if her parents continue to fight with each other?  Or are you actually suggesting Bryn should go into foster care based on her parents' inability to act like adults concerning her care?  Either way, I disagree vehemently.  First of all an empty threat is just useless in my opinion. Bryn's parents need to learn to put her needs above their hate for each other.  They are lucky to have a beautiful, healthy little girl and the financial security to live a nice lifestyle.  There are many people who aren't lucky enough to have those things and they really should take a long hard look at their lives.  Sending a kid to foster care is a difficult decision and should not be taken lightly.  Foster care can be a better choice for kids is horrible situations, but Bryn is nowhere near needing foster care.  She has parents, grandparents, and family friends who would be the first choices to take her in if that happened.  I've worked in dependency court and  I see no reason for her to be removed at all.  I can see the possible need for parenting and anger management classes and some supervision, but foster care --- NO WAY!!  

[pasdetrois]

I assume Brynn, Jason, Bethenny and possibly grandparents were assessed by court-appointed psychologists; it's pretty standard practice in contentious custody cases where accusations fly right and left between hostile parents. Maybe Brynn has a court-appointed guardian ad litem who makes objective recommendations to the judge on her behalf.

Maybe Jason was unaware of Dennis' drug habits until now. He didn't suddenly find his voice - he has new information. If I were he I would at least try to look into whether Bethenny used good judgment around Dennis, but unless witnesses come forward, I doubt Jason has a case.

I suspect that as long as Brynn is comfortable with both parents, she will continue to be required to enjoy significant time with each. It takes real evidence of serious wrongdoing for a parent's access to be curtailed.

Often having primary physical custody convinces that parent he or she can do whatever he/she pleases, including failing to keep the other parent informed of important stuff, making unilateral decisions, being late for visitation, witholding the child....that's one reason why parents fight for primary physical custody - they have a control agenda, or they don't want to be deprived of important activities.

[ryebread]

36 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

I would hope that Bethenny would be done with these shenanigans before it starts to embarrass Bryn.

I would hope she would be done with these shenanigans, like, this week.

Beth's traumas started in childhood. The baggage has followed her through her whole life. Culminating in this, the tragic sudden death of someone she loved. That alone, would bring most people to their knees.

Just stop. Concentrate on your kid and the businesses you have. Continue doing good work for people less fortunate than you. Get yourself right, so your daughter isn't be embarrassed by a mother who unravels weekly on national television. Get this custody mess sorted out.

Today, Bethenny posted on Instagram a simple heart with the words 'Thank you' in it. My hope would be that those are parting words for a while. To social media, to reality TV. She just needs to get herself right.

I'd like to think that Bethenny won't be back next season. It would be the right thing to do. She doesn't need the job. But I have no confidence in her ability to step out of the spotlight. Even for her own mental health or Bryn's. :-(

Edited August 18, 2018 by ryebread

[SuprSuprElevated]

50 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

I would hope that Bethenny would be done with these shenanigans before it starts to embarrass Bryn.

If your 8-yr old kid can't watch a reality TV show that you 'star' in, that says a lot.  Let's hope she doesn't let her watch it.

28 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

they have a control agenda

See also: Bethenny Frankel.

[QuinnM]

1 hour ago, Happy Camper said:

I wonder if Bethenny would do the same should Bryn give her an ultimatum? I would hope that Bethenny would be done with these shenanigans before it starts to embarrass Bryn.

First in this franchise we have Sonja, Ramona and Luann, all with children that went from tween to teen with their mother on a reality show.  Avery seemed fine with her mother being a nutcase.  Sonja we can only guess but Sonja never quit the show.

Bethenny has responded to the question, When do we see Brynn?, with the fact that when Brynn wants to be in the picture.  But so many of the SM moms feed is actually about their children so I’m real numb to it.  Busy Phillips feed is about 1/3 her daughters and she leveraged that into a new talk show.  So hard to see Bethenny’s as any big deal.

Edited August 18, 2018 by QuinnM

[Normades]

21 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Bethenny has rep;sounded to the question, When do we see Brynn?, with the fact that when Brynn wants to be in the picture.

I think Bryn's possible desire to be on the show is seriously colored by her mother's wish to have her on it.  She wants to please her mother and it probably sounds like lots of fun to an 8 year old.  I don't think these shows are good for kids and I'm glad Jason and Mr. Morgan have chosen to protect their daughters and kept them off the air.  Kids can do stupid things that could affect them later in life.  For instance, the things Lu's daughter did with smoking pot and using racial slurs*.  That can come up to bite her in her adult life later, as we've seen happen to other people just based on social media.  Kids don't always understand the ramifications of stupid, thoughtless behavior.  I hope Bryn stays off the show for her own good.  I also wonder if this is one of the reasons B wants sole custody --- to put that kid on the show, just like mommy.  

* I am in no way discounting what Victoria said and I really think it is disgusting.  I believe she learned that behavior at the knee of her dear old anti-Semite daddy.  I really hope she has educated herself and changed her thoughts and deeds.

[QuinnM]

7 minutes ago, Normades said:

I think Bryn's possible desire to be on the show is seriously colored by her mother's wish to have her on it.  She wants to please her mother and it probably sounds like lots of fun to an 8 year old.  I don't think these shows are good for kids and I'm glad Jason and Mr. Morgan have chosen to protect their daughters and kept them off the a

Sorry I wasn’t clear.  This was not about Brynn being on the show.  It was about Brynn being on Insta.  Currently you catch her legs sometimes her back but even when the other child’s mother has her child full face in Insta Brynn is still only partial.  

[Rap541]

*I really don't think Victoria's *dad* is the only one in that household with problematic examples for Victoria 

[RedDelicious]

2 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Kids don't need more trips than they already have. Bethenny is just looking for photo opportunities to show paparazzi see-what-a-great-mother-I-am and look-at-how-I-can-squeeze-into-Brynn's-Mickey-Mouse-tshirt.  

Brynn doesn't need to be home-schooled or rather, home-tutored with a paid teacher.  Let her be a kid with friends in her class and neighborhood. She won't have another chance with a mother who's sssooooooo....bbbbuusssyyyyy... with her 3 reality shows, her silly jeans... her Skinny Girl products and all the rest.  You saw Bethenny cry about her oh-so-hectic life.  

 

As we all suspected, Bethenny will probably be on the cover of PEOPLE magazine this week... 

Seriously.  Tell me what a child learns at the Four Seasons or on NetJets that makes traveling an education in itself.  If it's manners and behavior, that's something a 7 or 8-year old should be learning regardless.  I believe Bethenny's desire to have sole custody and decision making e.g., what type of education she receives, is completely rooted in control.  I believe she wants to have the child with her 100% of the time so that the child can/will never leave her.  That will only last for so long.

[Rap541]

Quote

I believe she wants to have the child with her 100% of the time so that the child can/will never leave her.  That will only last for so long.

Brynn is well past the age where this is even do-able.  She's what, almost nine? Old enough to soon have her own phone, if she doesn't already. And frankly, this custody thing is moving so slowly, Brynn will be ready for college before this gets worked out. 

[RedDelicious]

??‍♀️ It's what I think. We all know Bethenny has serious abandonment and major control issues and if she could have Brynn with her all the time, I think she would do it.

Edited August 18, 2018 by RedDelicious

[nexxie]

13 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

??‍♀️ It's what I think. We all know Bethenny has serious abandonment and major control issues and if she could have Brynn with her all the time, I think she would do it.

Ugh, hope that doesn’t happen - she’d suck the life right out of that poor child.

[RedDelicious]

Oh dear.  I wanted to say something positive and I went looking for the scene where Bethenny and Jason introduced newborn Bryn to their friends (all time favorite Bethenny scene) and I wound up watching all of these old clips and now I'm all teary.  aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh  And Gina was the BEST.

[ryebread]

11 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Seriously.  Tell me what a child learns at the Four Seasons or on NetJets that makes traveling an education in itself.  If it's manners and behavior, that's something a 7 or 8-year old should be learning regardless.  

Faaaaaar be it from me to defend Bethenny about anything. And I'm not even disagreeing that the type of education she wants Bryn to have isn't entirely rooted in control.

But the education a child gets from/while traveling is priceless!  

Loads of lessons learned that can't be taught in a classroom. 

10 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Oh dear.  I wanted to say something positive and I went looking for the scene where Bethenny and Jason introduced newborn Bryn to their friends (all time favorite Bethenny scene) and I wound up watching all of these old clips and now I'm all teary.  aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh  And Gina was the BEST.

I saw some of those old episodes a few weeks ago.

So. In your opinion, was Bethenny really in love with Jason and vice versa?  Or was she just looking for a sperm donor and he, a meal ticket?

[FozzyBear]

On 8/17/2018 at 5:01 AM, ryebread said:

I used to joke with the parents of my kindergarten students:  "I promise to believe only 50% of what they tell me about you, if you promise to believe only 50% of what they tell you about me.

This is one reason why I loved teaching the littles.  Innocent, active imaginations. <3

Ha! My mom once told me she liked to volunteer to teach the preschool/kindergarten class at Sunday School because that’s where you find out the good stuff! God bless her, she taught me to love good gossip. Never spread it, but collect it like baseball cards.

I don’t personally feel like I know nearly enough about Dennis to even hazard a guess about his drug use. He could have had an addiction problem, he could have misused a prescription, he could have had a heart attack linked to perfectly reasonable use. The presence of narcon could be an indicator of a problem or an indicator of a tricky prescription. It’s entirly possible he had been down this road before and that’s why he called his assistant, or it could be possible that his pharmacist sold him a narcon after seeing his prescription and his assistant knew how to use it so that’s why he called her.  I’m not saying I think everything was above board and anyone is crazy for making some assumptions, they are valid questions. I just don’t personally feel like I know enough to have any strong feelings about Dennis or Bethany’s behavior.

all that being said, I do get Jason being a little freaked out that someone who was in his daughter’s life died of an overdose (maybe? Do we know that for sure? I thought the official cause of death was heart attack. Has it officially been ruled as heart failure due to overdose?). I also kind of hate Jason and have no doubt that he wasted no time in sharpening his concern into a nice little shive to use in court.

[RedDelicious]

"Six weeks is six weeks. No tip." Gina was the MVP. 

It's hard to say. I do think the affection and emotion in the hospital scenes was real. But before that I think Bethenny made up her mind that she wanted a child whether she truly loved Jason or did not. I thought that from the second they showed her in the bathroom with the test. I never thought Jason saw her as a meal ticket - I don't think she was *that successful yet when they met. I do think Jason loved her and he wanted really badly to give her the "home" and family she never had. That's what I think the trips to Hazelton were rooted in. I think he tried too hard to show her another way of life that she just could not accept/understand and didn't want to be a part of. And he couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with it. And then it just blew up in their faces. I think she could have loved him, but she wanted everything 100% her way. It really wasn't fair to him or her. At the end of the day, I really do believe she is/was far too damaged to accept the kind of love and more traditional type of relationship he had on offer. And perhaps the more non-traditional relationship, like with Dennis, was what she wanted. One where she could shut him out when she wanted to, but could call any time. I think everything went really fast after she got pregnant and they never had a chance to evaluate if they truly wanted the same things. 

[diadochokinesis]

59 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Faaaaaar be it from me to defend Bethenny about anything. And I'm not even disagreeing that the type of education she wants Bryn to have isn't entirely rooted in control.

But the education a child gets from/while traveling is priceless!  

Loads of lessons learned that can't be taught in a classroom. 

I saw some of those old episodes a few weeks ago.

So. In your opinion, was Bethenny really in love with Jason and vice versa?  Or was she just looking for a sperm donor and he, a meal ticket?

Exactly!  Part of the reason we left the US was so our children could be exposed to the rest of the world and all these different cultures. History came alive for our 6 year old when she got to actually see the Colesseum, see the destruction at Pompei, visit sites dating back to biblical times in the Middle East, etc.  Much more so than it did for me when I read about it in textbooks in a classroom.  I sincerely think that traveling is a huge benefit to children and think that everyone needs to travel as far and as often as they are able to. I think Bryn’s travels will actually do a great deal towards developing her into a more global citizen which is where the world is moving to.  Just look at this site.  It has connected all of us from all over the world and helped us find something in common.  

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

But the education a child gets from/while traveling is priceless!  

The poster was specifically responding to the fact that Brynn’s recent travel desintations on IG have been Disneyland when B was in LA and hanging out for a few days at the Four Seasons pool in Miami.

Edited August 19, 2018 by biakbiak

[film noire]

41 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

I thought the official cause of death was heart attack. Has it officially been ruled as heart failure due to overdose?).

Per the family request, there won't be an autopsy,  just a toxicology report (so I'm assuming they won't be looking at heart muscle -- ?)

Before Shields passed out (after two doses of Narcan from the assistant, and before the third administered by EMT) Shields told the responders and cops he'd taken a drug cocktail (vicodin, oxy and a sleeping pill). They also found multiple prescription bottles scattered throughout the apartment.

I think it's a fair assumption to make that Shields was likely not a novice user, and had issues with abusing pain medication.

Edited August 19, 2018 by film noire

[ryebread]

6 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I do think Jason loved her and he wanted really badly to give her the "home" and family she never had. That's what I think the trips to Hazelton were rooted in. I think he tried too hard to show her another way of life that she just could not accept/understand and didn't want to be a part of. And he couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with it. And then it just blew up in their faces. I think she could have loved him, but she wanted everything 100% her way. It really wasn't fair to him or her. At the end of the day, I really do believe she is/was far too damaged to accept the kind of love and more traditional type of relationship he had on offer. And perhaps the more non-traditional relationship, like with Dennis, was what she wanted. One where she could shut him out when she wanted to, but could call any time. I think everything went really fast after she got pregnant and they never had a chance to evaluate if they truly wanted the same things. 

I agree with it all. I saw an episode when they were on their honeymoon and I saw love. Deep caring, similar humors. I didn't like Bethenny much, never have, but I was really rooting for them. And of course their baby. It is just a tragedy how this has all worked out. Or, rather, not worked out.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Brought over from the _____________ thread.  (God what I wouldn't give for short-term memory, lol)

I realize that Jason wanted the court to dismiss her petition, but to call this a win seems a bit of a stretch.  I guess it's a battle win in what is now a protracted war.

Nobody wins.  Least of all the 8-yr old pawn kid

Edited August 19, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[ryebread]

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The poster was specifically responding to the fact that Brynn’s recent travel desintations on IG have been Disneyland when B was in LA and hanging out for a few days at the Four Seasons pool in Miami.

I'll try to stick to only a couple of examples of how even that kind of travel is educational. Flying anywhere, staying anywhere that isn't home teaches a kid Independence, resourcefulness and self confidence that can't be taught in the classroom. I am not saying that a child who doesn't get these experiences can't be those things. What's educational about going skiing in Vail for Christmas? Learning to ski or snowboard probably sounds like just a lot of fun. But children who do this, become risk-takers. Which will benefit them their whole lives. (or, taken too far can lead to disaster.) But one of my points is, even riding a roller coaster at Disney World, or being allowed to be a big girl and order room service at the Four Seasons teaches them something. Those, indirectly, may not be necessary life lessons but they are experiences that round a kid out. When my kid was about 7, we let him go to the kiosk at a hotel pool by himself, as we watched from afar, so he could get a pool towel. Came back holding that towel all puffed up like he'd just bagged a 6 pointer during deer season.

Now most little kids, can obtain that same feeling by completing their own transaction with their allowance money at the local Target. And that's great too! These are all valuable experiences for a child. I just can't devalue the lessons Bryn learns by traveling. Even if it's just to Disney World or the Four Seasons. Now if all this travel is a ploy to keep her away from her father, that's a whole nother story.

[biakbiak]

19 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

guess it's a battle win in what is now a protracted wa

She filed in Dec/early January and this was just a progress hearing so it’s not being extended, the case was already going to be  going to a hearing in March 2019.

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

I'll try to stick to only a couple of examples of how even that kind of travel is educational. Flying anywhere, staying anywhere that isn't home teaches a kid Independence, resourcefulness and self confidence that can't be taught in the classroom.

I literally spent half my childhood traveling (had been to every continent but Antartica multiple times before I went to high school) and had many enriching experiences and it could also be tramautic and isolating both when traveling and coming back to school but that isn’t the travel experience Brynn is having. Bethenny herself IG that she could travel anywhere but she would rather be at her second home in the Hamptons.

[ryebread]

5 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I literally spent half my childhood traveling (had been to every continent but Antartica multiple times before I went to high school) and had many enriching experiences and it could also be tramautic and isolating both when traveling and coming back to school but that isn’t the travel experience Brynn is having. Bethenny herself IG that she could travel anywhere but she would rather be at her second home in the Hamptons.

Well, sure. Again, whole nother story. All the travel in the world or just to the local Hampton Inn isn't going to benefit a child much if the mother is a whack job and can't balance the travel with normal childhood experiences.

I was responding to this:

Quote

Seriously.  Tell me what a child learns at the Four Seasons or on NetJets that makes traveling an education in itself. 

[RedDelicious]

What I intended (and I think you guys get it bc were having a good conversation), or what I was getting at is pulling a child from school so you can home school them and travel is one thing. I totally agree that visiting historical sites and learning from other cultures is an incredible experience. But what I see is Bethenny talking about homeschooling Bryn so she, Bethenny, can travel for work on her schedule and not have to deal with formal school attendance requirements. I'm glad she puts kid stuff like Disney World into the mix. But for the most part I think it's more about Bethenny's schedule and her need to have the child under her jurisdiction than Bryn's actual education. So that's what I meant, how much can a child learn from hanging out in luxury hotels while her mom is in meetings or at appearances versus what a child learns in the school setting, both academic and social, not to mention sports and extracurriculars.

[ryebread]

7 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

But what I see is Bethenny talking about homeschooling Bryn so she, Bethenny, can travel for work on her schedule and not have to deal with formal school attendance requirements. 

In my opinion, if that is Bethenny's intention to drag Bryn with her on business trips and homeschool her, with the intention of maintaining control and keeping Bryn out of Jason's clutches, then I think it's a terrible idea.

And personally, even if Jason and Bethenny were together and wanted to travel and do business and homeschool Bryn - even under the best circumstances - I would still say by middle school it would be important to provide a more conventional educational experience than that. Imo, of course.

So many choices for educating children. It pains me when I see parents being raked over the coals for sending their children to boarding schools. (They are selfish and must hate their kids!)  Same goes for parents who choose to homeschool. (Control freaks whose children won't be socialized!)  Public vs. Private. The list goes on.

But whatever choice a parent makes, if it's not entirely for the benefit of the child, it's the wrong choice. 

[Jel]

29 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

What I intended (and I think you guys get it bc were having a good conversation), or what I was getting at is pulling a child from school so you can home school them and travel is one thing. I totally agree that visiting historical sites and learning from other cultures is an incredible experience. But what I see is Bethenny talking about homeschooling Bryn so she, Bethenny, can travel for work on her schedule and not have to deal with formal school attendance requirements. I'm glad she puts kid stuff like Disney World into the mix. But for the most part I think it's more about Bethenny's schedule and her need to have the child under her jurisdiction than Bryn's actual education. So that's what I meant, how much can a child learn from hanging out in luxury hotels while her mom is in meetings or at appearances versus what a child learns in the school setting, both academic and social, not to mention sports and extracurriculars.

I think any reasonable person would see it that way. It's just the motives part where the disagreement lies. People who like Bethenny may assume she's doing it to give Bryn wonderful experiences and people who don't may assume she's doing it merely to keep Bryn away from Jason and to meet her "own selfish needs".  Somewhere in that range of opinion lies the truth.

[RedDelicious]

Totally agree @ryebread and @Jel!

[ladle]

11 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

It's hard to say. I do think the affection and emotion in the hospital scenes was real. But before that I think Bethenny made up her mind that she wanted a child whether she truly loved Jason or did not. I thought that from the second they showed her in the bathroom with the test. I never thought Jason saw her as a meal ticket - I don't think she was *that successful yet when they met. I do think Jason loved her and he wanted really badly to give her the "home" and family she never had. That's what I think the trips to Hazelton were rooted in. I think he tried too hard to show her another way of life that she just could not accept/understand and didn't want to be a part of. And he couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with it. And then it just blew up in their faces. I think she could have loved him, but she wanted everything 100% her way. It really wasn't fair to him or her. At the end of the day, I really do believe she is/was far too damaged to accept the kind of love and more traditional type of relationship he had on offer. And perhaps the more non-traditional relationship, like with Dennis, was what she wanted. One where she could shut him out when she wanted to, but could call any time. I think everything went really fast after she got pregnant and they never had a chance to evaluate if they truly wanted the same things. 

It's interesting because, while I actually agree with all of this, I would also lay 50% of the blame squarely on Jason's shoulders.  I found him very controlling and unlikable during his time on the show. 

[film noire]

8 hours ago, ryebread said:

I agree with it all. I saw an episode when they were on their honeymoon and I saw love. Deep caring, similar humors. I didn't like Bethenny much, never have, but I was really rooting for them. And of course their baby. It is just a tragedy how this has all worked out. Or, rather, not worked out.

I always wondered if the miscarriage ultimately ended the marriage (as it does for many couples).

At the time, Frankel described feeling consumed with loss and guilt; maybe she felt she was drowning, and converted grief into something she could control -- turning on the marriage, turning on the man she conceived the child with ("the only thing you do is remind me of what I lost"). They might have split anyway (differing ambitions, different ways of handling conflict) but if she felt Hoppy was missing in action emotionally, that might have driven her from "two girls in rainboots"  (how she described imagining a little sister for Bryn) to telling him the marriage was over, nine months later (around the time she would've had a newborn in her life).

8 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I realize that Jason wanted the court to dismiss her petition, but to call this a win seems a bit of a stretch.  

I agree -- none of this makes sense to me -- I don't understand her leaving Bryn with somebody she knew was abusing drugs, and I don't understand how planting this revelation in the media  is proof she's a great parent. 

eta: 

Quote

@Rap541

Maybe *she* isn't planting these little revelations in the media? Isn't that a possibility?

Absolutely -- I mentioned that in my original post, the one Supr posted upthread  - bolded below:

Quote

According to Radar, a source close to Frankel is dropping Gibraltar-sized hints that she knew Dennis had issues with drugs;

"The source close to Frankel dismissed Hoppy’s criticism of her and her parenting. The insider told Radar that Frankel was reluctant to marry Shields before his tragic death, even though she was sporting a large diamond ring on her right hand during court

The source disputed Jason Hoppy’s position, and implied that Bethenny was well aware of the issues surrounding the relationship.

“There’s a reason Bethenny didn’t accept his proposal right away, she knew. She’s not a drug addict nor is she an unfit mother. Think about the engagement story that Dennis proposed to her and that there were things or hurdles to overcome before she would agree to marry him. She knows what the environment was or the issues going on, that she knew it wasn’t the right time to take that next step and take that relationship to the next level.”

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/08/bethenny-frankel-wins-primary-custody-trial-jason-hoppy-court-battle-dennis-shields-death/

If this is a lie, and she knew nothing about his drug use,  she needs to hustle somebody out to deny it asap. 

But if it's true -  how  could she do that? How could she leave her kid alone with a man she knew was abusing pain meds? Who takes that kind of chance with a little girl? 

Edited August 19, 2018 by film noire

[Rap541]

Maybe *she* isn't planting these little revelations in the media? Isn't that a possibility?

[Celia Rubenstein]

48 minutes ago, film noire said:

I agree -- none of this makes sense to me -- I don't understand her leaving Bryn with somebody she knew was abusing drugs, and I don't understand how planting this revelation in the media  is proof she's a great parent. 

I don't understand why anyone would assume Bethenny planted this story.

To a lot of people (Jason and his lawyer included) Bethenny is a terrible mother because she apparently left Bryn with someone she knew abused drugs.  Why would Bethenny think publicizing the fact that she did such a thing would make her look like she's a great parent? Why would she want to draw any attention to such a lapse of judgment on her part? 

Just because Jason takes hit in that story doesn't mean Bethenny or one of her minions was the source. It's entirely possible that the source for the story was some over-invested third party who likes to run their mouth to tabloid rags.  Happens every day.

[Rap541]

What is there to deny? I mean, she needs to snap to and deny that... Dennis was with Bryn? When we all know that happened? That she did or didn't know he had a problem with drugs?

Would you or anyone else believe her if she said she didn't know? This wouldn't enter the recitation of "No parents, raised by wolves, lost at sea, homeless"?

I just genuinely don't understand why anyone would think she is planting this particular story at all. It does her no good at all. 

My point? Sure seems like "Bethenny didn't plant this story" makes a lot more sense than "Let's all try to figure out what advantage if any Bethenny might gain over planting a story that does nothing but make her look bad because she's really a mastermind and there must be some reason for her to do this."

Sometimes when it's got hooves and gallops, it's really a horse and not a zebra. Who else would gain advantage or pleasure from creating a hassle for Bethenny by planting such a story?

[Celia Rubenstein]

Hmmmm, I wonder ... I mean it's not like Bethenny is on the outs with anybody or anything. 

I think it's kinda funny the story manages to make both Bethenny and Jason look bad. I wonder if the source is someone who doesn't really care for either one of them and delivered this little two-fer to the press to shank the both of them.  As a bonus effect, each side will blame the other and ramp up the nastiness accordingly. 

I think that's as reasonable a guess as saying it must have been Bethenny who planted the story even though all she really accomplished was reminding the world she left her kid with a dope fiend* and passed out from drugs and alcohol on the show.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by Celia Rubenstein
this is hyperbole intended to demonstrate some of the extreme opinions I've read around the web about Beth leaving her kid with Dennis. I don't mean I think Dennis was an actual dope fiend

[ladle]

Sorry I'm late to the party, but do we know for sure that Bethenny left Bryn with Dennis, alone?  And "left" in what sense?  Like, for five minutes while she went around the corner to grab take-out or for extended periods?  And why?  I'm not divorced, but if I were I'm hard-pressed to think of a circumstance in which I would leave my kid fully in the care of my significant other, especially if I had full-time nannies and assistants on staff.  Like, I'm honestly just trying to understand this. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by ladle

[Rap541]

There has been no description that I have found about the occasions that Bryn was left alone with Dennis. I mean, I don't find it unbelievable that Bryn might have been in Dennis's prescence without an adult, because he and Bethenny had known each other for years and dated each other for years. Its certainly not inconceivable. I doubt, simply because of the prescence of staff/nannies/etc that Dennis was routinely spending hours alone with Bryn unattended. I also doubt extensive periods of babysitting by Dennis because... he's a grown man with a job that seemed to keep him fairly busy.  There really isn't any detail out there that I have found about what this time alone with Bryn looked like. 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, ladle said:

Sorry I'm late to the party, but do we know for sure that Bethenny left Bryn with Dennis, alone? 

If it weren't true, I'm thinking her lawyer would have denied it in court, immediately undermining Jason's argument (maybe her lawyer did deny it, and for some reason, that big/crucial denial hasn't been reported in all the coverage quoting the back and forth in court).

Quote

I'm not divorced, but I'm hard-pressed to think of a circumstance in which I would leave my kid fully in the care of my significant other, especially if I had full-time nannies and assistants on staff. 

If she did leave him alone with Bryn, I figure it happened when they were en famille for the weekend (out at the Hamptons, or on vacation together) not "I'm going to a meeting today, can you take my kid for the afternoon".  And (drugs aside) after two years of dating and a possible engagement down the road, I have no issue with that -- trying to build a bond between your significant other and your child by letting them hang out alone together makes sense to me -- it's when you add in your significant other overdosing from a drug cocktail (oxy/vicodin/sleeping pill) that it becomes a problem.

eta: Hoppy's lawyer's comment, in the courtroom:

“Our concern is while his death is very sad this raises serious concerns about Ms. Frankel’s parental judgment. Dennis Shields spent a great deal of time with Bryn and even cared for Bryn at times when Ms. Frankel wasn’t around. Considering Mr. Shields’ addiction what does that say about Ms. Frankel’s parenting that she would allow this person to care for her daughter? This doesn’t just constitute a lapse in judgment this was just downright dangerous parenting.”

Edited August 20, 2018 by film noire

[Celia Rubenstein]

That's a good point, ladle ... I don't think anyone knows for sure if Bethenny ever left Bryn alone with Dennis and, if she did, how long it was for or what the circumstances were. I personally have no reason to believe that Bethenny ever left Bryn alone with Dennis for an unacceptable amount of time. I've never read anything that suggests that, I mean. 

My statements about how Bethenny looks like a bad mother are a reference how she is seen by those who are assuming she did leave Bryn with Dennis for too long or too often. I don't share that opinion of her as a parent at all.

 

 

1 minute ago, Rap541 said:

 There really isn't any detail out there that I have found about what this time alone with Bryn looked like. 

Jason's lawyer reportedly said something about Bethenny allowing Bryn to "be around" Dennis and something about Bethenny allowing Dennis to "care for" Bryn (whatever that means). It's pretty vague. I would think if Jason had information that Bryn had been left alone overnight or all day or something like that, his lawyer would have brought it up.  He apparently went on a little mini rampage when the judge ruled there would be a custody trial. I can't imagine he would have omitted such a choice nugget of info from his spiel if he had it available. 

It sure didn't sound like the judge was very impressed with Jason's sudden change of heart about the current arrangement that occurred post-ruling.  Such integrity, lol.  I wonder why they are going to trial. The court must have seen something it didn't like in those psych evaluations, I guess. I don't think they order up custody re-trials for no reason.  

[AnnA]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

she left her kid with a dope fiend and passed out from drugs and alcohol on the show.  

A dope fiend?  How awful for his children if they read that.    Based on what we know about Dennis he was highly functional and ran a successful business.   He suffered a back injury, used Oxy and mixed Oxy with a sleeping pill the night before he died.    I don't think that makes him a dope fiend.   My friend's husband suffered a broken neck in an accident six years ago.   He's still taking Oxy.  I can't judge whether he takes it for pain or if he's become dependent on it. I do know he's a good man, runs his own successful business and watches his grandchildren all the time.

[QuinnM]

23 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It sure didn't sound like the judge was very impressed with Jason's sudden change of heart about the current arrangement that occurred post-ruling.  Such integrity, lol.  I wonder why they are going to trial. The court must have seen something it didn't like in those psych evaluations, I guess. I don't think they order up custody re-trials for no reason.

Bethenny petitioned for full custody.  At the first hearing the judge ordered stuff.  This hearing he had everything he asked for, sometimes a forensic accounting, mental evaluations, therapy review etc. He would also get the response to the petition from the parents.  So Jason must have responded with, no things are just fine the way they are, don’t change a thing. So then he decides whether to allow the petition to go forward.  He said the petition had merit and set up a court date.  I actually know someone whose petition was denied at this point.  Let’s say they aren’t happy when that happens.  In this case the petition is going forward.  The judge sets a date.  Then Jason starts in on Bethenny being unfit.  A little late for that in the process.  He can bring that up in March.

Edited August 19, 2018 by QuinnM

[Celia Rubenstein]

12 minutes ago, AnnA said:

A dope fiend?  How awful for his children if they read that.    Based on what we know about Dennis he was highly functional and ran a successful business.   He suffered a back injury, used Oxy and mixed Oxy with a sleeping pill the night before he died.    I don't think that makes him a dope fiend.   My friend's husband suffered a broken neck in an accident six years ago.   He's still taking Oxy.  I can't judge whether he takes it for pain or if he's become dependent on it. I do know he's a good man, runs his own successful business and watches his grandchildren all the time.

I was employing a bit of facetious hyperbole, anna. I don't seriously mean I think he was a dope fiend. I was merely giving voice to the extreme opinions about the matter that I've been reading in various places on the interweb. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[AnnA]

33 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I was employing a bit of facetious hyperbole, anna. I don't seriously mean I think he was a dope fiend. I was merely giving voice to the extreme opinions about the matter that I've been reading in various places on the interweb. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Thank you.  I'm so glad to hear that.  

[chick binewski]

18 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

It's hard to say. I do think the affection and emotion in the hospital scenes was real. But before that I think Bethenny made up her mind that she wanted a child whether she truly loved Jason or did not. I thought that from the second they showed her in the bathroom with the test. I never thought Jason saw her as a meal ticket - I don't think she was *that successful yet when they met. I do think Jason loved her and he wanted really badly to give her the "home" and family she never had. That's what I think the trips to Hazelton were rooted in. I think he tried too hard to show her another way of life that she just could not accept/understand and didn't want to be a part of. And he couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with it.

This was my POV watching the spin-offs. That area of PA was too far out for me, but she was pretty dismissive off the bat considering that's where Jason came from. The suggestion that it was time to upgrade her wedding ring when they were less than a year into the marriage. Saying Jason liked "small talk" when he was actually busy charming her guests...she always seemed to want to put him in one particular pocket. I know there are folks here who chat about angry/controlling Jason and frankly I just never saw it. I know Bethenny's upbringing is discussed a lot as well, but the Hoppys lost a child. Yet Mrs. H has been cast as a demon septuagenarian with a notary seal.

I guess that's part of the reason I come back to this thread. Since I can almost always find something to empathize with on the woman's side of a divorce I'm looking for a pov that might be fairer than my own but I can't get there.

Re the planting of stories - I will say idk that there's much of it going on bc it all seems so superficial and inaccurate. And Bethenny's famous so there's not much she can do about the press associating her with Dennis in every article. And I did not find it odd that she addressed his death on SM and she certainly has every right to her grief. But considering they were not together and that he had a family I do find her words and picture very odd, questionable choices.

[Gem 10]

22 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

"Six weeks is six weeks. No tip." Gina was the MVP. 

It's hard to say. I do think the affection and emotion in the hospital scenes was real. But before that I think Bethenny made up her mind that she wanted a child whether she truly loved Jason or did not. I thought that from the second they showed her in the bathroom with the test. I never thought Jason saw her as a meal ticket - I don't think she was *that successful yet when they met. I do think Jason loved her and he wanted really badly to give her the "home" and family she never had. That's what I think the trips to Hazelton were rooted in. I think he tried too hard to show her another way of life that she just could not accept/understand and didn't want to be a part of. And he couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with it. And then it just blew up in their faces. I think she could have loved him, but she wanted everything 100% her way. It really wasn't fair to him or her. At the end of the day, I really do believe she is/was far too damaged to accept the kind of love and more traditional type of relationship he had on offer. And perhaps the more non-traditional relationship, like with Dennis, was what she wanted. One where she could shut him out when she wanted to, but could call any time. I think everything went really fast after she got pregnant and they never had a chance to evaluate if they truly wanted the same things. 

I feel exactly the same way.  His parents were thrilled to have her in their lives.  After awhile, she hated going to Hazelton, it was too tame for her.  She doesn’t stick with anybody for long.  Now she wants to rip Bryn away from her father.  It’s just not right.  She cannot have every damn thing she wants all the time.  I don’t blame him one bit for fighting for his child.  Bryn needs her father and grandparents too.

[ShawnaLanne]

I grew up with a huge family. I love my family. I loved my husband's family, even though they drove me crazy and were judgemental AF. There is no way after the birth of my child I would go every weekend to their house hours away. Or my own families house for that matter. There is no way I would have let my husband take my child every weekend without me. This debate has been hashed and rehashed. Even if Bethenny came from a normal family this us unacceptable. This is smothering behavior. It is controlling behavior. It messed with their own family unit bonding time and likely contributed to the dissolution of their marriage. It was selfish and cowardly of Jason to not support his wife.