Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Anne Thrax]

I suppose because of his ability to pay whatever bill they give him, Hoppy can still find attorneys to  bring this petty nonsense before the court.

Family law judges see this all the time, multiple times a day -- one ex-spouse has it in for the other ex-spouse, makes a bunch of muddled allegations and doesn't bring proof of a damn thing, yet expects the judge to find in their favor.

1. Dennis and Bethenny had been broken up at the time of his death, so there's nothing against B that the judge could consider. 

2. Dennis never lived in the home and wasn't married or engaged to Bethenny, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

3. Bethenny wears a ring that was a gift from Dennis that may or may not be an engagement ring, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

4. Bethenny was shown on a heavily-edited reality show being drunk and naked, neither of which is illegal and Brynn wasn't there, so there's nothing against B the judge can consider. 

5. Bethenny may have a substance abuse problem, but since he's no expert and there's no proof, there's nothing against B for the judge to consider.

Sounds like a big ol' nothingburger from Jason the only purpose of which was to sling innuendo and conjecture with literally zero proof.  He's flushing tens of thousands down the toilet every time he does this just to be a thorn in her side.  Because I'm sure his attorney advised him that his complaints are weak, utterly lacking proof, and there's very little chance the judge will take any action against Bethenny in terms of the custody issue.  Because the judge sees who the problem is in his courtroom.

The judge will understand immediately that Jason is taking yet another opportunity to try to stick it to Bethenny in order to derail her custody petition.  The judge will deny Jason's latest tempest in a teapot, and it'll show that Jason is the one with bad judgment (or at least worse judgment than Bethenny - when she goes to court against Jason, she has proof and lots of it).

Edited August 16, 2018 by Anne Thrax

[weaver]

I frankly don’t understand her grounds for a new trial.   Tuesday’s hearing was a continuation of the ongoing custody trial.  Presumably the judge decided to keep things as is, although it is not clear from the poorly written articles.  Shouldn’t that be the end of it unless all new papers are filed?  

[film noire]

24 minutes ago, Anne Thrax said:

2. Dennis never lived in the home

No, but he watched Bryn alone, when Bethenny wasn't there.

If Bethenny had been with Bryn and Dennis,  I think Jason would be a total dick for bringing up Shield's addiction, but him watching Bryn alone? At the age of eight? That's an issue, imo.  (And if Hoppy's ex had died of an overdose, after watching Bryn alone, I think Frankel would be praised in the media for being horrified and seeking sole custody -- there'd be no mercy shown for a female drug addict having watched over Bryn, and then ODing.)

Edited August 16, 2018 by film noire

[BodhiGurl]

The ME confirmed Dennis died of an overdose and was an addict? I thought that usually takes some time. But I'm guessing he hasn't come out with the autopsy report yet so... why is Jason bothering with this at this time - if it hasn't been proven that Dennis was an "addict" or died as a result of overuse of pain killers... or that Dennis was hopped up on pain killers while spending time with Bryn... Again, I just feel awful for Bryn - I wish both her parents would grow the F up and behave like mature adults who want to raise a healthy, well adjusted child..

[weaver]

30 minutes ago, Anne Thrax said:

I suppose because of his ability to pay whatever bill they give him, Hoppy can still find attorneys to  bring this petty nonsense before the court.

Family law judges see this all the time, multiple times a day -- one ex-spouse has it in for the other ex-spouse, makes a bunch of muddled allegations and doesn't bring proof of a damn thing, yet expects the judge to find in their favor.

1. Dennis and Bethenny had been broken up at the time of his death, so there's nothing against B that the judge could consider. 

2. Dennis never lived in the home and wasn't married or engaged to Bethenny, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

3. Bethenny wears a ring that was a gift from Dennis that may or may not be an engagement ring, so there's nothing against B that the judge can consider. 

4. Bethenny was shown on a heavily-edited reality show being drunk and naked, neither of which is illegal and Brynn wasn't there, so there's nothing against B the judge can consider. 

5. Bethenny may have a substance abuse problem, but since he's no expert and there's no proof, there's nothing against B for the judge to consider.

Sounds like a big ol' nothingburger from Jason the only purpose of which was to sling innuendo and conjecture with literally zero proof.  He's flushing tens of thousands down the toilet every time he does this just to be a thorn in her side.  Because I'm sure his attorney advised him that his complaints are weak, utterly lacking proof, and there's very little chance the judge will take any action against Bethenny in terms of the custody issue.  Because the judge sees who the problem is in his courtroom.

The judge will understand immediately that Jason is taking yet another opportunity to try to stick it to Bethenny in order to derail her custody petition.  The judge will deny Jason's latest tempest in a teapot, and it'll show that Jason is the one with bad judgment (or at least worse judgment than Bethenny - when she goes to court against Jason, she has proof and lots of it).

If the judge had seen all this, he would have granted Bethenny’s petition for full custody.  He didn’t.  Jason isn’t incurring any expenses he didn’t already have by Bethenny bringing this lawsuit.  What should he do, hand over Bryn?  

[rhys]

7 hours ago, Jel said:

 

ETA: he's standing on the edge of a very slippery slope to be arguing about potential non-parental caregiver fitness. His elderly parents look after Bryn at times, no? Hate to say it, but advanced age is a risk factor for catastrophic illness and death. What if one of them had a stroke or sudden heart attack, while looking after Bryn, in the car, driving? And, is his father, who barged into a business meeting in his underwear, showing some early signs of dementia? Is the sainted Mother Hoppy of The Travelling Notary Stamp in full possession of all her faculties?  Should we question Jason's judgment in allowing his parents 

Hoppy's parents *may* be 12 years older than me. I strenuously object to their being called 'elderly' and 'advanced aged.' Jeez. That's awful.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, smores said:

You would think Jason would want to do whatever he could to try to make this situation ok for Brynn,

How do we know he's not? We've seen Bethenny have break downs. Often. There's something wrong there. Prone to hysterics, sobbing atop bags of ice. Shaking and screaming and losing her shit when she's upset. Filming and posting these fits. While we're speculating:  Bryn could have called Jason this week and said, "Daddy, please come and get me. Mommy is crying again. She's scaring me. It's worse than it's ever been."  She wouldn't be the first eight year old trying to escape her mother's sadness/anger/rage under conditions less stressful than that.

I'm not comfortable with the accusations of Jason doing this just because he's a monster any more than I am of the scenario I just posted. It's all just...really bad.

Quote

though I'm sure it's a shitty thing to have to listen to her being sad about Dennis. 

You are right. It might be shitty for Jason to have to listen to Bryn being sad about Dennis. But even worse in my book?  Is Bryn having to listen to Bethenny's brand of sadness about Dennis.

I'm just not convinced that Bethenny is capable of grieving appropriately in front of a child.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

In my opinion, yes - because real families don't surrender joint custody of their children willingly or easily, right?

Today, Hoppy asked that joint custody continue, but Frankel demanded sole custody and a trial.  I don't see how trying to marginalize Bryn's father in Bryn's life (especially in the wake of Dennis' death) in any way promotes the health and stability of that child.  And how is Bethenny asking for a trial  (in which evidence will be given as to whether Hoppy is fit to retain joint custody) in any way Hoppy's fault for bringing a mud-slinging trial into their lives?

Amen to your entire post!

Edited August 16, 2018 by ChitChat

[Mozelle]

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

While I agree I don’t think Bethenny is in any place to discuss anything for oh let’s say a week.  Do we know when he wanted to meet with her?  Previous court discussion indicates that the two of them work through a mediator due to Jason’s stalking issues.  Is this his way to circumvent those so he can again verbally harass her?  Nope, he burned that bridge with the stalking order.  This is why people need to work this stuff out.  Working it out in the middle of a funeral is just not a good idea.

The judge seems to agree.  He described Hoppy as lobbing grenades across the table and set the next hearing for mid March.

Mid March?! I really can't even fathom how someone has the fortitude to live in a constant state of suits and lawyers and judges and hearings.

I don't much like Jason, but dammit, if Bethenny wanted to be the only one raising a child, why didn't she just go the IVF and sperm bank route? As she'd been previously married, she had to understand that not all marriages last (and statistically speaking, second marriages have an even higher rate of divorce), and that if a child came from the marriage it would be very very likely (as we see now) that she wouldn't be able to pay the father off to skip town or what have you.

Both Jason and Bethenny swear they're doing this in the best interest of Bryn, but really both of them have their egos too involved. That's unfortunate for Bryn.

And the thing about it is that although Bryn is eight, far too often adults underestimate children that age. In my previous career, I was a teacher in a private elementary school. Third graders are whip smart, and they're very aware of what's going on in the world around them. You can have full on, age-appropriate conversations and explain certain things to them. If either Bethenny or Jason think that Bryn isn't watching this all unfold and think that she doesn't grasp how contentious this all is, they're dummies.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Mozelle
Because, apparently, I have more to say...

[Chit Chat]

2 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

Both Jason and Bethenny swear they're doing this in the best interest of Bryn, but really both of them have their egos too involved. That's unfortunate for Bryn.

My gut feeling all along (which doesn't mean I'm right,) is that Bethenny wanted a child, but not a husband.  I don't think she expected Jason to fight for their child either.  I don't think he's a monster.  He didn't walk away from his child, so I commend him for that.   With Bethenny, you have to fight fire with fire.  She said some very nasty things about him in the past.  Her tendency for exaggeration leads me to question everything she says about him and anybody else for that matter.  Everything with her is "torture," or she has "gone to war."  It's all just too much.   I'm referencing things that happened prior to Dennis' death.   Sadly for her, this is the one time  I'd agree that what she's experiencing now is emotional hell. 

Maybe she's hoping that Jason will just give up and sign over custody to her.  Fight on, Jason!   How cruel of Bethenny to expect him to do that.  Just because he didn't physically birth that baby doesn't mean that he doesn't want her in his life.  FWIW, I think it's a fair question for Jason to ask Bethenny  who is around Bryn when she's with Bethenny, just as Bethenny has a right to know who Jason brings around their child when she's with him.  

[scoobie1]

I haven't really picked a side in this whole matter 

However,  if Bethenny wanted to go the sole custody route she should have known there would be no punches held on the other side.  What is her reasoning exactly for not wanting Jason in Brynn's life as a real father who helps make decisions for her.  What did he do that was so horrendous?  Ok he followed her and was getting hostile. Let me tell you I would get hostile, too, if my spouse was trying to keep me away from my kid.  She got the restraining order and all was well.  Now she still wants full custody? for what?  The only person she is hurting is Brynn. A child needs TWO parents if they have the luxury of having them.  This is just selfish.  She doesn't like Jason. She doesn't want to answer to Jason. She doesn't want Brynn anywhere near him. So she files for sole custody. Nice.  If I were Jason I would use every single trick in the book to make sure my rights weren't taken away.  It's dirty and malicious to bring in the death of her boyfriend but that's too damn bad when it comes to his daughter.  Bethenny fights dirty all the time.  He can and should.   As for what Brynn is going to say to her father years later when she finds out how he saved their relationship well maybe she'll be thankful.  I know I would be.  How many kids are out there who would kill for a parent to fight for them.  Parents always say they would die for their kids. Jason isn't dying for Brynn but he's fighting for her in every way he can.   Bethenny should just go for joint. It's better for Brynn and in the long run Brynn will be better for it. 

[Midnight Cheese]

1 hour ago, weaver said:

He didn’t bring it up before because he had no evidence.  He didn’t bring it up on Tuesday until Bethenny again asked for a new trial for full custody and was granted it.  

No I don’t think he cares that Bethenny lost Dennis.  Bethenny is trying to take Bryn from him.   That is what he cares about.  

I agree and I understand his reasoning.   I cannot understand at all why Bethenny is apparently relentless in going for full custody and fighting joint custody so ferociously.   Bryn has two parents and the good fortune of two living grandparents she has strong relationships with (since Beth and Bernadette play “she’s dead to me” in the press every two years or so.).  It’s deranged to strip minor children of loved ones.   I don’t understand this at all.   And I cringed when I read about Jason’s move - but what can he do if he has a reasonable fear of losing equal access to HIS child over nothing?

[smores]

It IS entirely possible for one parent to have full custody of a child and for the child to still have a relationship with the other parent.  Having full custody does not mean you are automatically trying to steal the child from the other parent.  I was a kid who was part of a custody agreement, my mother had full custody of me.  I knew my father, spent a lot of time with him (and even his family!), and had a good relationship with him.  He, however, wasn't someone who was qualified to make good decisions for other people.  It is entirely possible that this is the crux of the issue with Jason.  Bethenny may feel, she may have reason to believe and/or evidence to prove that Jason should not have decision making ability for Brynn.  So far nothing that we've seen has shown that she's trying to get sole custody with no visitation, just that she wants sole custody.  

[walnutqueen]

5 minutes ago, smores said:

It IS entirely possible for one parent to have full custody of a child and for the child to still have a relationship with the other parent.  Having full custody does not mean you are automatically trying to steal the child from the other parent.  I was a kid who was part of a custody agreement, my mother had full custody of me.  I knew my father, spent a lot of time with him (and even his family!), and had a good relationship with him.  He, however, wasn't someone who was qualified to make good decisions for other people.  It is entirely possible that this is the crux of the issue with Jason.  Bethenny may feel, she may have reason to believe and/or evidence to prove that Jason should not have decision making ability for Brynn.  So far nothing that we've seen has shown that she's trying to get sole custody with no visitation, just that she wants sole custody.  

THIS.  It's not even that he can't make decisions for Bryn, it's that there is so much acrimony between Bethenny and Jason that every decision to be made turns into a pissing contest between the two of them.

[AnnA]

7 minutes ago, smores said:

It IS entirely possible for one parent to have full custody of a child and for the child to still have a relationship with the other parent.  Having full custody does not mean you are automatically trying to steal the child from the other parent.  I was a kid who was part of a custody agreement, my mother had full custody of me.  I knew my father, spent a lot of time with him (and even his family!), and had a good relationship with him.  He, however, wasn't someone who was qualified to make good decisions for other people.  It is entirely possible that this is the crux of the issue with Jason.  Bethenny may feel, she may have reason to believe and/or evidence to prove that Jason should not have decision making ability for Brynn.  So far nothing that we've seen has shown that she's trying to get sole custody with no visitation, just that she wants sole custody.  

I agree.    What I hate about their joint custody arrangement is that Bryn has to shuffle back and forth between homes on a schedule.    That's tough on a kid and will be impossible once she's a little older.  Teenage girls are difficult at best. 

[Midnight Cheese]

I remember the school confrontation involved Dennis participating in the school run.   Contentious relationship and that’s the wannabe sole decision makers decision?   I would completely believe Bethenny would try and reduce visitation on whatever basis if she got her sole custody wish.   

I think Bethenny really should have tried to have a child strictly on her own.   It’s not a criticism - I have two friends that did so, and it has worked out well.   I also have a friend who split with her child’s dad and she’d kill for the opportunity to have him want to be involved.   I know this is pat but we’ve IMO seen much more of Beth and she seemingly prides herself on not compromising.   It’s the inverse of how it should be.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Midnight Cheese

[nexxie]

Between the discussions about Carole really seeing Bethenny and walking away, and this one about Jason and custody, I really wonder if Bethenny wants sole custody because Jason sees her too (psychological game-player, npd, etc.) and she can’t have that. Maybe he wasn’t the “stalker” she made him out to be - maybe he was terrified for his daughter. I also wonder how Carole sees this all now, after being used as a media mouthpiece for Bethenny’s cause.

[smores]

I've got to be honest, I'm really glad that the whole joint custody thing didn't exist when I was a kid.  Especially the 50/50 custody split.  When I hit my tween years and wanted to do sleepovers and stuff it was hard because I had to visit my father every weekend, so I automatically had to plan around that, no matter what.  And as an adult, I get that you would be hurt and you want to spend as much time as you can with your child that you don't see most of the time, but, as the 11 year old girl?  I wanted to be at the party with the rest of my friends.  It sucked having to always plan things around the visitation or skip out on stuff because of it.  It would have been worse if my life was split so many days with this parent, so many with that one.  

Also, if Bethenny were to get full custody, then Jason would get a visitation agreement.  This wouldn't be something Bethenny would be able to just change on a whim.  The court would have control over it, and it would be an enforceable order, the same as the 50/50 custody is now.  So, it's not like she would automatically get full custody and be like "HA! Sucker! You lost and now she's all mine!" and poor Jason just stands on the other side of the glass staring in.  

[Jel]

1 hour ago, rhys said:

Hoppy's parents *may* be 12 years older than me. I strenuously object to their being called 'elderly' and 'advanced aged.' Jeez. That's awful.

I didn't know those terms were offensive (thought they were in current use in medicine). Thank you for the education :)

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jel

[QuinnM]

So last March (?) Bethenny asked for sole custody.  They had a hearing.  The judge ordered all kinds of things like psychiatric reviews etc.  Then today they come back and the judge who has read all the documents says that there is enough to go forward with a trial.  That means that there was enough in the documents to justify a trial.  Jason said no change in custody.  This is fine.  Then after the judge said that he was going forward with reviewing custody Jason (his lawyer) said unfit mother.  So this doesn’t look like Jason is a saint.  It looks like he has said or done enough that the judge will hear all the evidence and determine if Bethenny gets sole custody.  It also looks like Jason is going to use Bethenny is unfit as a defense.  Nothing unusual here except the judge already said Jason was just being retaliative in his accusation.

And everybody remember sole custody is not sole physical custody.  The physical custody and the legal custody are two separate things.  So Bethenny might get sole custody but Bryn would continue to spend one week with Jason and one week with Bethenny.  And that would be court ordered.

But I’m sure that we will not be seeing any wild antics from Bethenny in the upcoming season.  She’ll probably keep her clothes on and stay as sober as judge.  But really I only remember the one time that she did get drunk.  It seems she’s usually drink water and lemon.

[rhys]

Don't pay any attention to me. I was just yelling at the neighbor kids to get off my lawn. I found Robert Hoppy appear s to be 71 so just 4 years older than I am. Crikey

[QuinnM]

15 minutes ago, rhys said:

Don't pay any attention to me. I was just yelling at the neighbor kids to get off my lawn. I found Robert Hoppy appear s to be 71 so just 4 years older than I am. Crikey

A pregnant 37 year old is called a geriatric pregnancy.  I laughed and laughed, inappropriately, at work.  I needed to be excused.  i myself become conveniently elderly when it suits me.  Oh gosh I can’t mow the grass, they said on the news that the elderly should stay in a cool place and drink plenty of fluids because of the weather.

[Mozelle]

31 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So last March (?) Bethenny asked for sole custody.  They had a hearing.  The judge ordered all kinds of things like psychiatric reviews etc.  Then today they come back and the judge who has read all the documents says that there is enough to go forward with a trial.  That means that there was enough in the documents to justify a trial.  Jason said no change in custody.  This is fine.  Then after the judge said that he was going forward with reviewing custody Jason (his lawyer) said unfit mother.  So this doesn’t look like Jason is a saint.  It looks like he has said or done enough that the judge will hear all the evidence and determine if Bethenny gets sole custody.  It also looks like Jason is going to use Bethenny is unfit as a defense.  Nothing unusual here except the judge already said Jason was just being retaliative in his accusation.

And everybody remember sole custody is not sole physical custody.  The physical custody and the legal custody are two separate things.  So Bethenny might get sole custody but Bryn would continue to spend one week with Jason and one week with Bethenny.  And that would be court ordered.

But I’m sure that we will not be seeing any wild antics from Bethenny in the upcoming season.  She’ll probably keep her clothes on and stay as sober as judge.  But really I only remember the one time that she did get drunk.  It seems she’s usually drink water and lemon.

Right. Bethenny wants to be the only parent to make any decisions (medical, religious, schooling) in Bryn's life; that's what sole custody means. And since that's the case, it doesn't make any sense to me why she didn't just do IVF and get a sperm donor. I mean, we can't go back in time, of course, but I'm just trying to figure all this out.

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, scoobie1 said:

I haven't really picked a side in this whole matter 

However,  if Bethenny wanted to go the sole custody route she should have known there would be no punches held on the other side.  What is her reasoning exactly for not wanting Jason in Brynn's life as a real father who helps make decisions for her.  What did he do that was so horrendous?  Ok he followed her and was getting hostile. Let me tell you I would get hostile, too, if my spouse was trying to keep me away from my kid.  She got the restraining order and all was well.  Now she still wants full custody? for what?  The only person she is hurting is Brynn. A child needs TWO parents if they have the luxury of having them.  This is just selfish.  She doesn't like Jason. She doesn't want to answer to Jason. She doesn't want Brynn anywhere near him. So she files for sole custody. Nice.  If I were Jason I would use every single trick in the book to make sure my rights weren't taken away.  It's dirty and malicious to bring in the death of her boyfriend but that's too damn bad when it comes to his daughter.  Bethenny fights dirty all the time.  He can and should.   As for what Brynn is going to say to her father years later when she finds out how he saved their relationship well maybe she'll be thankful.  I know I would be.  How many kids are out there who would kill for a parent to fight for them.  Parents always say they would die for their kids. Jason isn't dying for Brynn but he's fighting for her in every way he can.   Bethenny should just go for joint. It's better for Brynn and in the long run Brynn will be better for it. 

I want to like this a thousand times.

What if the shoe on the other foot?  What if Jason went for primary custody?  What if Jason had a girlfriend who was a part of Bryn's life and accidentally overdosed?  Does anyone think for a nano second that Beth would not bring this up in court?  I truly don't understand why Jason is being declared the bad person in this.

If I had an ex who filed for primary/whatever custody of my child, I would use 'everything' to fight it.  No fucks.  This is my child.  Too bad for you.  You initiated this. 

On another note, we have no idea if and what Jason tried to communicate with Beth after Shields died.  I doubt that Jason can just email her or contact her directly.  Apparently he was concerned about how to handle telling Bryn about Shields' death.   

[Mrs peel]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

So last March (?) Bethenny asked for sole custody.  They had a hearing.  The judge ordered all kinds of things like psychiatric reviews etc.  Then today they come back and the judge who has read all the documents says that there is enough to go forward with a trial.  That means that there was enough in the documents to justify a trial.  Jason said no change in custody.  This is fine.  Then after the judge said that he was going forward with reviewing custody Jason (his lawyer) said unfit mother.  So this doesn’t look like Jason is a saint.  It looks like he has said or done enough that the judge will hear all the evidence and determine if Bethenny gets sole custody.  It also looks like Jason is going to use Bethenny is unfit as a defense.  Nothing unusual here except the judge already said Jason was just being retaliative in his accusation.

And everybody remember sole custody is not sole physical custody.  The physical custody and the legal custody are two separate things.  So Bethenny might get sole custody but Bryn would continue to spend one week with Jason and one week with Bethenny.  And that would be court ordered.

But I’m sure that we will not be seeing any wild antics from Bethenny in the upcoming season.  She’ll probably keep her clothes on and stay as sober as judge.  But really I only remember the one time that she did get drunk.  It seems she’s usually drink water and lemon.

I doubt that’s what happened.  The Court can’t just read the documents and deny the parties a hearing.  This was likely a status date,to make sure the reports were back before giving a hearing date.

i don’t know if in NY legal and physical custody are different.  But sole legal custody would mean B doesn’t need to consult with Brynn’s father on educational, medical issues.

[Mariareads]

11 hours ago, QuinnM said:

And they’re off. It’s unfortunate this has to be done right on top of Dennis’s death. But obviously Hoppy doesn’t give a shit. 

https://pagesix.com/2018/08/16/bethenny-frankels-ex-questions-her-parental-judgment-after-dennis-shields-death/

Jason is garbage. That he would do this now shows he is exactly what many of us thought. A gold digging, controlling, abusive rat. B is no angel but he is using this kid as a pawn and that's so wrong!

[nexxie]

6 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

I think b is trying to isolate Bryn because Bryn is capable of "seeing" b also and tell others what is going on in her life. 

That’s so scary and so true - she may already have said things to her dad and/or grandparents.

[Rap541]

Quote

I think b is trying to isolate Bryn because Bryn is capable of "seeing" b also and tell others what is going on in her life. 

Really? Brynn attends public school at last check. Public schools are filled with required reporters. Bryn also has had a psych exam by the judge appointed third party. She is seen publically with her father and does actually go to live with him every other week. As many have said, if Bethenny were to receive sole custody, that does not mean Jason "will never see his daughter again" - she will still have time with him and his family. Even if Bethenny received sole custody, she would have to seek permission from Jason to move Bryn out of state... and face legal penalties if she ignored the courts in this respect.

Unless there is a major change in how Beth handles this kid, I see no indication that Brynn is being kept isolated from others, and I don't see any signs that Bethenny's ultimate plan is to hide the child away in isolation from the public.

Frankly, I assumed the ulterior motive was for Brynn to be allowed to be on the show... and trust me that won't be *isolating* Brynn.

Quote

That’s so scary and so true - she may already have said things to her dad and/or grandparents.

If Brynn has said things to Daddy Jason and Grandparents Hoppy that are so scary and true, then they are monster for letting her go back to a woman who does scary, true things to her and around her to where she is crying out to help to her family.

If that's true, then they are awful people.

And personally, I don't think it's true. Not after watching Jason leap on the Dennis situation... if Bryn was telling a tale that would score him custody, he'd have her reciting it at a press conference. 

[Rosiejuliemom]

2 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Right. Bethenny wants to be the only parent to make any decisions (medical, religious, schooling) in Bryn's life; that's what sole custody means. And since that's the case, it doesn't make any sense to me why she didn't just do IVF and get a sperm donor. I mean, we can't go back in time, of course, but I'm just trying to figure all this out.

She has mentioned that she wants to be able to pull Bryn out of her current school in favor of home-schooling her. Her reasoning was that she wants to be able to take Bryn on trips whenever she (Beth) wants to.

Also, if she has sole legal custody, I believe she could consent to have Bryn filmed for the show. 

[smores]

I would imagine that even if Bethenny has sole custody Jason could fight for a stipulation that Brynn not be filmed.  There are things that I think are kind of extraordinary circumstances and are out of the realm of the "normal" sole custody decisions.  Appearing on a tv show would seem to be one of them, and I'd guess that if Jason fought it with compelling reasons (and, I honestly think there are good reasons to keep most kids off the show for the most part), there could be a situation where Brynn would not be able to be on the show, but Bethenny had custody.  This is assuming, though, that Bethenny wants to have her on the show.  I don't know that she really does.  I'm guessing that even if she had the option, she'd either keep her off completely, or do something like Heather Dubrow did where you might see the kids playing in the background from time to time while she was talking to other people, but, for the most part, they weren't their own characters on the show.

[diadochokinesis]

5 hours ago, film noire said:

No, but he watched Bryn alone, when Bethenny wasn't there.

If Bethenny had been with Bryn and Dennis,  I think Jason would be a total dick for bringing up Shield's addiction, but him watching Bryn alone? At the age of eight? That's an issue, imo.  (And if Hoppy's ex had died of an overdose, after watching Bryn alone, I think Frankel would be praised in the media for being horrified and seeking sole custody -- there'd be no mercy shown for a female drug addict having watched over Bryn, and then ODing.)

Why is it an issue if he is watching Bryn alone at the age of 8?  

I know many functional addicts.  Hell, my MIL is one and she’s an RN (functional alcoholic).  She works her 3 days and stays sober for those 3 days but lord, the other 4.... Hot mess.  It is possible that Dennis was that type.  Also, he might not have been a true addict.  We don’t even know for sure if he OD’d because the ME reports haven’t come back (tox screens take weeks). It is possible that he was on it for pain management and was well under control.  From what I’ve read, he was conscious and lucid enough to ask for Narcan.  That isn’t a typical opioid OD.  They are typically unconscious and someone else makes the decision to administer Narcan. 

4 hours ago, smores said:

It IS entirely possible for one parent to have full custody of a child and for the child to still have a relationship with the other parent.  Having full custody does not mean you are automatically trying to steal the child from the other parent.  I was a kid who was part of a custody agreement, my mother had full custody of me.  I knew my father, spent a lot of time with him (and even his family!), and had a good relationship with him.  He, however, wasn't someone who was qualified to make good decisions for other people.  It is entirely possible that this is the crux of the issue with Jason.  Bethenny may feel, she may have reason to believe and/or evidence to prove that Jason should not have decision making ability for Brynn.  So far nothing that we've seen has shown that she's trying to get sole custody with no visitation, just that she wants sole custody.  

Yep!

4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

THIS.  It's not even that he can't make decisions for Bryn, it's that there is so much acrimony between Bethenny and Jason that every decision to be made turns into a pissing contest between the two of them.

YAS!!!!  You just know that every single decision turns into a battlefield between those two.  It could be over something as minor and inconsequential of bangs or no bangs (actually, not inconsequential—I am firmly anti-bangs).  Just let one parent make the decisions but still maintain a relationship.  It would be nice if it actually led to the relationship improving since they would no longer by fighting constantly over everything.  However, they probably would just be bitter and seethe. 

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

So last March (?) Bethenny asked for sole custody.  They had a hearing.  The judge ordered all kinds of things like psychiatric reviews etc.  Then today they come back and the judge who has read all the documents says that there is enough to go forward with a trial.  That means that there was enough in the documents to justify a trial.  Jason said no change in custody.  This is fine.  Then after the judge said that he was going forward with reviewing custody Jason (his lawyer) said unfit mother.  So this doesn’t look like Jason is a saint.  It looks like he has said or done enough that the judge will hear all the evidence and determine if Bethenny gets sole custody.  It also looks like Jason is going to use Bethenny is unfit as a defense.  Nothing unusual here except the judge already said Jason was just being retaliative in his accusation.

And everybody remember sole custody is not sole physical custody.  The physical custody and the legal custody are two separate things.  So Bethenny might get sole custody but Bryn would continue to spend one week with Jason and one week with Bethenny.  And that would be court ordered.

But I’m sure that we will not be seeing any wild antics from Bethenny in the upcoming season.  She’ll probably keep her clothes on and stay as sober as judge.  But really I only remember the one time that she did get drunk.  It seems she’s usually drink water and lemon.

This was also my thought. When Jason thought it was going his way, he threw out some major accusations.  Throwing out her behavior on camera, accusing her of being a possible addict herself, requesting a drug test, etc. He is just throwing out everything and it isn’t a good look. 

I also agree that you rarely see B get wasted on camera.  Plus, the few times that she has gotten drunk have been on trips when she doesn’t have Bryn.  What we have seen on camera is that when B has Bryn, she is calling to say good night, she is rushing home, and that she is a concerned and involved parent.  She has rearranged her work schedule so that she doesn’t work when she has Bryn. Bryn is her world.

1 hour ago, stewedsquash said:

I think b is trying to isolate Bryn because Bryn is capable of "seeing" b also and tell others what is going on in her life. 

I disagree.  I don’t see B trying to isolate Bryn.  If she was, she wouldn’t have been sending her to public school all these years. 

27 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

She has mentioned that she wants to be able to pull Bryn out of her current school in favor of home-schooling her. Her reasoning was that she wants to be able to take Bryn on trips whenever she (Beth) wants to.

Also, if she has sole legal custody, I believe she could consent to have Bryn filmed for the show. 

I haven’t seen where she has said she wants to homeschool Bryn.  I did a quick Google search and didn’t find anything but it is possible that a quote is out there.  I would think she would have done it already though.  Trust me, they tell you everything even in kindergarten.  Parents would be horrified if they knew what their kids were telling their teachers.  LOL. 

[Rosiejuliemom]

2 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

 I would think she would have done it already though.  Trust me, they tell you everything even in kindergarten.  Parents would be horrified if they knew what their kids were telling their teachers.  LOL. 

That's the thing, though, she can't take Bryn out of school as she and Jason have to make joint decisions. I honestly think that is at least part of the reason she is suing for sole legal custody. If she gets it, she doesn't have to consult Jason about pulling Bryn out.

 

Believe me, I am well versed in the things kids say to their teachers. I've got third and fifth graders. Just last year, my oldest daughter wrote a note to her teacher on the back of her math homework that said "Sorry. My mom couldn't figure out the turtle head, so we did it a different way."

Little brat dimed me out over Common Core math.

[smores]

We really have no idea what the situation was with Dennis, if he overdosed, if he'd been a longtime drug user, did he have heart failure due to drug use or some other issue, etc.  So, it's hard to say what was going on, but, what I do know is that a lot of people likely have an addict in their circle that they are unaware of.  It really can be the last person you'd think it would be, and until it's too much of a problem, you might never know a thing.  So, could Dennis have been an opioid addict all this time?  Yeah, it's possible.  But, it's also possible Bethenny never knew a thing.  She may have known he had a back problem, or maybe that he took painkillers, from time to time, but, depending on the level of usage, you may not even realize what or how much the person is taking.  

It's the same thing with alcohol.  When you talk about alcoholics, you usually picture the person who is like Luann falling into the bushes drunk.  Doing that every night or every weekend.  But, the person who quietly and steadily drinks smaller amounts can also have an alcohol problem.  I can think of a few people that I have literally never seen without a beer in their hand unless they were at work.  Doesn’t matter what time of day, what day of the week, if they were not on their way out the door to work or at work, they had a beer in their hand.  It's like it was the sole beverage they drank.  They NEVER appear drunk, ever.  They don't ever seem the slightest bit intoxicated.  If you didn’t see the beer, you'd have no clue they were or had been drinking.  But, the fact that they can't go without the beer means they have a problem.  This is the type of thing people can hide, though.  Your BFF could do in a bottle or two of wine, quietly, every night, while making dinner, or during the afternoon before the kids get home from school.  Stuff like that, you just never know until something goes wrong and things fall apart.

[Atwood]

4 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

 But sole legal custody would mean B doesn’t need to consult with Brynn’s father on educational, medical issues.

I'm pretty sure it would also mean that Bethenny could sign off to use Bryn in her TV shows and other PR endeavors without input from Jason.

ETA: oops just realized that the page wasn't reloaded for a while so this has already been brought up. 

I'm not a fan of Jason (his alleged treatment of Cookie really turned me off him), but after I realized that Bethenny is the person who's been prolonging this custody fight by filing for sole custody, I lost any sympathy I had for the "hell" and "torture" it's bringing her. And it's made me hugely skeptical of her motives. Add in her own Cookie seizure video complete with panic attack in front of Bryn, as well as her choice to post about Bryn's ongoing grief over Cookie and I just don't have a lot of faith left in her. At this point I think she'll do almost anything for pity and attention, and while I think she genuinely loves her daughter I don't think she's able to understand the negative impact the decisions she makes will have on her emotional health. 

I used to think she was just a bit "damaged" by her upbringing, but she's coming off more and more like a person with a personality disorder to me. And I'm sorry  if this is considered un-PC at the moment, but that's never a good quality in a parent. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Atwood

[film noire]

8 hours ago, smores said:

 just that she wants sole custody.  

And with sole custody comes the sole right to decide if Bryn goes on tv, appears as the face of Brynnygirl, appears full-faced on Frankel's instagram, becomes a public personality -- what sane parent wants their kid exposed to that?

Of these two e coli ridden snotburgers,  only Hoppy has rejected Bryn being pimped out in the media -- that alone makes him a marginally better guardian of Bryn's boundaries, and her right to a private childhood,  than her mother. 

This is the intrusive, inappropriate shit Frankel pulled on Bryn, with the current injunctions in place:

 

She turned her daughter's ongoing grief into a social media post -- as if Bryn's emotional loss is just another instagrammable moment -- given that,  what happens when Jason no longer has the right to stop Frankel? What happens when Bethenny has free reign to use her child as only she sees fit? 

Because this image -- Bryn sitting in front of her dead dog's photo, with a giant creepy red heart and a live link to Cookie's fucking instagram page plastered across her  --  is not a Kodak moment capturing a healthy childhood; this is a snapshot straight out of crazy town.

Edited August 17, 2018 by film noire

[weaver]

Bethenny skirts the ban on Bryn being on social media all the time.  If anyone watches her IG stories, she has several times shown Bryn full face and body.  More often she just shows her from the side.  This violates the court order, but I doubt Jason can afford to go to court for every little thing she does.  If she had full custody, who knows what she would do.  

On another note, on Wednesday's show, I noted that Kevin her old driver was yet again not in evidence, nor has he been on her social media.  What happened to him, does anyone know?  

[ScoobieDoobs]

Asking Bethenny to take a drug test is really lowball -- and yet, why not?  I don't believe for a sec she has any kind of drug prob.  She could easily disprove such ridiculous accusations.  Was his lawyer slimy to bring up Dennis & his probs?  Absolutely.  But even more so because the exact nature of his problems are not known & the effect or knowledge Bethenny had is not known either.  Now, should she be forced to share the details of her relationship with Dennis & what he was like around Brynn?  I think it's fair to ask.

And what about her behavior on the show?  That's also fair game -- I mean for his lawyers to ask if this is how she behaves routinely in her life & around Brynn.  I'm referring here to excessive drinking.  Oh please.  Everybody drinks to excess on the show.  Everybody drinks to excess on ALL of Andy Cohen's shows. 

Eh, look, I would love it if she finally, finally, finally reveals the truth behind Andy Cohen's shows.  Maybe being in court & fighting for sole custody of Brynn will inspire her to be as brutally honest as she always claims to be, and just admit she's acting for the cams at the direction of Andy Cohen -- and that EVERYTHING she does & says on the show is complete & total fake bullshit.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

And with sole custody comes the sole right to decide if Bryn goes on tv, appears as the face of Brynnygirl, appears full-faced on Frankel's instagram, becomes a public personality -- what sane parent wants their kid exposed to that?

It will be interesting to see if Bryn turns into a media overachiever or not.

Could history repeat itself and Bethenny would be Bernadette in this mother/daughter scenario?

[ryebread]

7 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Trust me, they tell you everything even in kindergarten.  Parents would be horrified if they knew what their kids were telling their teachers.  LOL. 

I used to joke with the parents of my kindergarten students:  "I promise to believe only 50% of what they tell me about you, if you promise to believe only 50% of what they tell you about me.

This is one reason why I loved teaching the littles.  Innocent, active imaginations. <3

[SuprSuprElevated]

14 hours ago, weaver said:

No I don’t think he cares that Bethenny lost Dennis.  Bethenny is trying to take Bryn from him.   That is what he cares about.

I wouldn't expect him to care about Bethenny's loss frankly, because their hatred of each other overrides any ability to sympathize or empathize.  Considering the incident at Bryn's school, I don't image he had anything but animosity for Dennis, rightly or wrongly.  Death doesn't necessarily cure that.  Of course he cares that Bethenny is trying to exert total control, a metaphor of her entire existence, over his child.  He should care very much about that.

I just hope for the kid's sake, that this is settled before she graduates from high school.  I'm not going to hold my breath.

[pasdetrois]

There are prescribed drugs, such as Adderall, that women use (abuse) to keep their weight down. I have my suspicions about numerous housewives and many other folks in the entertainment world. The abuse of Adderall-for-weight-control is quite rampant.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I just hope for the kid's sake, that this is settled before she graduates from high school.  I'm not going to hold my breath.

Right?

Reading through these posts about the custody battle and psychiatric evaluations and overall dysfunction has me saying to myself, over and over:

"Hang in there, lil BrynBryn.  Only ten more years..." :-(

So sad considering the other path this family might have taken.

[Happy Camper]

10 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Why is it an issue if he is watching Bryn alone at the age of 8?  

I know many functional addicts.  Hell, my MIL is one and she’s an RN (functional alcoholic).  She works her 3 days and stays sober for those 3 days but lord, the other 4.... Hot mess.  It is possible that Dennis was that type.  Also, he might not have been a true addict.  We don’t even know for sure if he OD’d because the ME reports haven’t come back (tox screens take weeks). It is possible that he was on it for pain management and was well under control.  From what I’ve read, he was conscious and lucid enough to ask for Narcan.  That isn’t a typical opioid OD.  They are typically unconscious and someone else makes the decision to administer Narcan. 

It could be, but even if it were a 50/50 chance that he was not, and he was under the influence of medication, probably better to err on the side of caution, and not have him watching Bryn alone.  What if there had been an emergency and he did not have the capacity to react quickly and responsibly?

What mother would be okay with taking that chance?

I just hope that Bethenny had no idea that he was taking these medications. If she did, and did leave him alone with Bryn, well, in Ramona's words, "Wow, Bethenny, Wow!"

Edited August 17, 2018 by Happy Camper

[diadochokinesis]

2 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

It could be, but even if it were a 50/50 chance that he was not, and he was under the influence of medication, probably better to err on the side of caution, and not have him watching Bryn alone.  What if there had been an emergency and he did not have the capacity to react quickly and responsibly?

What mother would be okay with taking that chance?

I just hope that Bethenny had no idea that he was taking these medications. If she did, well, in Ramona's words, "Wow, Bethenny, Wow!"

I’ve known some people on long-term oxy and they take care of their kids by themselves.  For some, it doesn’t knock them out or anything.  It is a low enough dose that it allows them to function in their lives but not make them high/catatonic. It is also possible that the oxy was taken as needed so that when he was with Bryn, he wasn’t on the meds.  There are a lot of variables out there that nobody knows.  It is part of the reason why I have an issue with the leap that Jason took from Dennis’s death (with a pending ME report so COD is not yet known) to drug testing B because of course she must be a drug user too. 

[Happy Camper]

1 minute ago, diadochokinesis said:

I’ve known some people on long-term oxy and they take care of their kids by themselves.  For some, it doesn’t knock them out or anything.  It is a low enough dose that it allows them to function in their lives but not make them high/catatonic. It is also possible that the oxy was taken as needed so that when he was with Bryn, he wasn’t on the meds.  There are a lot of variables out there that nobody knows.  It is part of the reason why I have an issue with the leap that Jason took from Dennis’s death (with a pending ME report so COD is not yet known) to drug testing B because of course she must be a drug user too. 

Problem is that we don't know to what extent Dennis was taking this medication. Well, I guess we do. We've seen the outcome.

[diadochokinesis]

1 minute ago, Happy Camper said:

Problem is that we don't know to what extent Dennis was taking this medication. Well, I guess we do. We've seen the outcome.

But we don’t know that he died from an OD.  The fact that he was cognizant enough to request Narcan makes me suspicious.  If you are OD’ing on an opioid, you are unconscious.  You aren’t lucid enough to request Narcan.  However, long-term use of OxyContin can lead to cardiac damage resulting in a cardiac arrest (which he could have mistaken for an OD).  Tox screens (along with results from tissue samples, etc) won’t come back for a couple of weeks which is why it usually takes awhile for COD to be determined. 

[Happy Camper]

1 minute ago, diadochokinesis said:

But we don’t know that he died from an OD.  The fact that he was cognizant enough to request Narcan makes me suspicious.  If you are OD’ing on an opioid, you are unconscious.  You aren’t lucid enough to request Narcan.  However, long-term use of OxyContin can lead to cardiac damage resulting in a cardiac arrest (which he could have mistaken for an OD).  Tox screens (along with results from tissue samples, etc) won’t come back for a couple of weeks which is why it usually takes awhile for COD to be determined. 

IMO, still best better not to take the chance. There were reports that he had taken Vicodin, and a sleeping pill in addition to oxycodone. 

I have no problem with Bethenny being with Dennis, just not Bryn being left alone with him.

[chick binewski]

15 hours ago, ChitChat said:

My gut feeling all along (which doesn't mean I'm right,) is that Bethenny wanted a child, but not a husband.  I don't think she expected Jason to fight for their child either.  I don't think he's a monster.  He didn't walk away from his child, so I commend him for that.   With Bethenny, you have to fight fire with fire.  She said some very nasty things about him in the past.  Her tendency for exaggeration leads me to question everything she says about him and anybody else for that matter.  Everything with her is "torture," or she has "gone to war."  It's all just too much. 

 

15 hours ago, scoobie1 said:

What is her reasoning exactly for not wanting Jason in Brynn's life as a real father who helps make decisions for her.  What did he do that was so horrendous?  Ok he followed her and was getting hostile. Let me tell you I would get hostile, too, if my spouse was trying to keep me away from my kid.  She got the restraining order and all was well.  Now she still wants full custody? for what?  The only person she is hurting is Brynn. A child needs TWO parents if they have the luxury of having them.  This is just selfish.  She doesn't like Jason. She doesn't want to answer to Jason. She doesn't want Brynn anywhere near him. 

This is another feeling I've harbored about the situation from the start. Bethenny (like a few other housewives who may have spent too much time on TV) tends to be affronted when she is questioned or challenged. I do believe she thought she could simply steamroll Jason out of Bryn's life and was utterly gobsmacked when he did not acquiesce. 

 

14 hours ago, nexxie said:

Between the discussions about Carole really seeing Bethenny and walking away, and this one about Jason and custody, I really wonder if Bethenny wants sole custody because Jason sees her too (psychological game-player, npd, etc.) and she can’t have that. Maybe he wasn’t the “stalker” she made him out to be - maybe he was terrified for his daughter. I also wonder how Carole sees this all now, after being used as a media mouthpiece for Bethenny’s cause.

 

10 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Really? Brynn attends public school at last check. Public schools are filled with required reporters. Bryn also has had a psych exam by the judge appointed third party. She is seen publically with her father and does actually go to live with him every other week. As many have said, if Bethenny were to receive sole custody, that does not mean Jason "will never see his daughter again" - she will still have time with him and his family. Even if Bethenny received sole custody, she would have to seek permission from Jason to move Bryn out of state... and face legal penalties if she ignored the courts in this respect.

Unless there is a major change in how Beth handles this kid, I see no indication that Brynn is being kept isolated from others, and I don't see any signs that Bethenny's ultimate plan is to hide the child away in isolation from the public.

I can't speak specifically to Nexxie's post, but it's not unheard of for one parent to keep a child not only from certain adults but also deny those adults the details of the child's life. Not necessarily due to anything untoward going on, but rather not wanting the child to be exposed to an alternate POV or have frank discussions about anything too deep. 

And I do believe Carole began viewing Bethenny's custody issues in a different light and that was part of their divide. Maybe I was too often reminded of the demise of one of my friendships, but it appeared to me Carole was trying to evaluate Bethenny's actions and words (regarding matters other than Bryn) with a little distance and things just didn't reconcile. 

 

53 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

There are prescribed drugs, such as Adderall, that women use (abuse) to keep their weight down. I have my suspicions about numerous housewives and many other folks in the entertainment world. The abuse of Adderall-for-weight-control is quite rampant.

I am of the belief that pretty much every HW from every franchise is overloaded with prescription drugs. Granted, alcohol is plentiful and it can make you sloppy. But the special mix of odd slurring & inappropriate outbursts suggests some pills in the mix. Also? We've got several dozen women perimenopausal, menopausal or post and nary a weight problem.

 

5 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

But we don’t know that he died from an OD.  The fact that he was cognizant enough to request Narcan makes me suspicious.  If you are OD’ing on an opioid, you are unconscious.  You aren’t lucid enough to request Narcan.  However, long-term use of OxyContin can lead to cardiac damage resulting in a cardiac arrest (which he could have mistaken for an OD).  Tox screens (along with results from tissue samples, etc) won’t come back for a couple of weeks which is why it usually takes awhile for COD to be determined. 

Again, I feel for Dennis' family and I do not want to be disrespectful but I find it odd that the only detail released was that the deceased specifically requested Narcan.

[Rap541]

Quote

I can't speak specifically to Nexxie's post, but it's not unheard of for one parent to keep a child not only from certain adults but also deny those adults the details of the child's life. Not necessarily due to anything untoward going on, but rather not wanting the child to be exposed to an alternate POV or have frank discussions about anything too deep. 

And I do believe Carole began viewing Bethenny's custody issues in a different light and that was part of their divide. Maybe I was too often reminded of the demise of one of my friendships, but it appeared to me Carole was trying to evaluate Bethenny's actions and words (regarding matters other than Bryn) with a little distance and things just didn't reconcile. 

Bryn currently sees her father and his family without chaperones, ie  not supervised visitation. If Brynn wants to talk and you know ,tell these dark and scary secrets, she gets two weeks out of the month to do so. If Bethenny were to receive sole custody. Brynn would still have this opportunity because the physical custody agreement isn't up for discussion currently. Brynn isn't being isolated, she has a whole week every other week where her dad can expose her to his POV and have deep frank discussions. Bryn is also getting to an age where what she wants starts to be more in play.

I'm going to lump Carole in with Jason and the Hoppys in that if she witnessed something or heard something from either Bethenny or Bryn that was "scary" and has done nothing because being ass buddies with Bethenny was more important until just recently, then she's a monster. 

And if she's just taking the view that "When Bethenny and I were friends, I thought she was a great mom, but now that I am pissed with her, I now think she's a terrible mom" well... forgive me but she's also got an ulterior motive to suddenly find her voice.

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, Happy Camper said:

It could be, but even if it were a 50/50 chance that he was not, and he was under the influence of medication, probably better to err on the side of caution, and not have him watching Bryn alone.  What if there had been an emergency and he did not have the capacity to react quickly and responsibly?

What mother would be okay with taking that chance?

I just hope that Bethenny had no idea that he was taking these medications. If she did, and did leave him alone with Bryn, well, in Ramona's words, "Wow, Bethenny, Wow!"

 

TMZ is reporting* that he had taken Vicodin, along with Oxycodone & Ambien, a huge no-no.  So if he awakened feeling really badly, he may have known the trouble he was in.  He was either an established addict, which I'm not prepared to assume, or in that much pain.  My sis had big back trouble at one time, and she spent most of her days effed up on meds.  She was able to shake them off, but doesn't sound like he was on the other side yet.

bethenny-frankel-boyfriend-last-words-explain-trump-tower-death/

*Take that with whatever grain of salt you wish.  I find them to be right more than wrong.

Edited August 17, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated