S03.E05: Toby

[topanga]

1 minute ago, marceline said:

The experience of teenage Randall left me with a rueful smile. I was the only black girl in a high school class of over 500. Getting invited to a white friend's home was always a game of racial roulette. Sometimes because my friends really didn't grasp the depth of their parents racism or sometime because they did and brought me home out of spite. I even had one friend who asked me to crouch down in the backseat of her car so that her parents wouldn't see me when she had to run into the house to pick up something. I completely understand why Randall gave prom a pass after that. BTDT.

Wow. Those must have been tough experiences for you. How do those memories affect you now? And no offense, but your friends sucked.

Which makes me wonder if Randall has white friends now? Or if he ever dated another white woman? I know he met Beth in college, but I wonder if there was another girlfriend before her.

One other thing about Randall’s political aspirations: winning a political race is often as much about the personality and charisma of the candidate as it is about the issues. I don’t think Randall has the charisma yet. He’s been selling weather commodities for years, so he does know how to sell things to people. But politics are an entirely different animal.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, Kirkydee said:

Thanks for the reply.  I figured it was probably more than just a benzo that he was on.  I work in an ED and I can get a little jaded when people are on a lot of opioids and benzos.  As you know people will say any and everything to get what they want (not what they need- not saying Toby is that way).  I didn't know about giving a 3 day supply temporarily.  Is that state by state or per policy by individual pharmacy? 

I used to work for Walgreens in North Carolina, Ohio and Virginia, and we would give the courtesy supply in each state for what was deemed maintenance medications.  

[debraran]

11 minutes ago, marceline said:

I was very glad to see Randall's meeting go bust. The savior complex was a problem with Jack too but the show doesn't really seem willing to unpack that. Randall keeps being told how hurtful it is when he looks at people and sees what's broken. It doesn't make people feel good even when they know and love you. To have Randall come sweeping in with no real connections doesn't inspire confidence. I like how the show is also showing us how he is oblivious to his wife's pain (although to be fair she's lying to him). This is the same obliviousness Jack showed to Rebecca's dream to be a singer. I hope Beth eventually tells him the truth. 

The experience of teenage Randall left me with a rueful smile. I was the only black girl in a high school class of over 500. Getting invited to a white friend's home was always a game of racial roulette. Sometimes because my friends really didn't grasp the depth of their parents racism or sometime because they did and brought me home out of spite. I even had one friend who asked me to crouch down in the backseat of her car so that her parents wouldn't see me when she had to run into the house to pick up something. I completely understand why Randall gave prom a pass after that. BTDT.

I know that I'm supposed to be rooting for Kate and Toby's baby adventure but I'm just not. They both just seem to have too much emotional baggage to work through with her weight and his depression. And as someone living with clinical depression I want to kick Toby's ass for flushing his pills. If you want to stop taking them, so be it but I subscribe to the belief that you always keep your meds around in case you lose your insurance.

I thought it was awful because he knew Randall, his daughter was with him after the fire etc. The prom was scheduled. He could have just gone out.  What a jerk. My Husband still remembers when a dad ran him off driveway. Very scary and not something you forget. I hope she sought randall out later.  I would have gone, pic or not

[topanga]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I used to work for Walgreens in North Carolina, Ohio and Virginia, and we would give the courtesy supply in each state for what was deemed maintenance medications.  

If Jack had been there to tell the tech a story about Toby’s rough childhood and Kate’s miscarriage and subsequent rounds of IVF, Toby would’ve gotten the meds.

[Mrs.Monkey]

What surprised me about the convenience store scene was that no one recognized Kevin. He was the Manny. Now he's starring in a big movie. But no one in the store noticed that. Same thing with the conversation with the soldier's wife. Yes Zoe is dating a white man, but she's also dating a celebrity. How was that not part of the conversation?

[Mrs Shibbles]

Interesting tidbit-

The actor who played the Adele- o Gram complimenter is Chrissy Metz's real life BFF  Donnie Berry.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Mrs Shibbles

[Biggie B]

I found it interesting that Zoe opened up to a complete stranger, the wife of Jack's army buddy. I mean, it shows that these two strangers  completely and totally "get" what each is talking about - a cultural/ethnic shorthand that we've probably all experienced in some way or another. But regardless, these two don't know each other at all. Still, we saw Rebecca having a pretty personal conversation with her former boyfriend's mother about whether Rebecca should pursue a relationship with Jack, so why not?

I got more out of this episode than last week, that's for sure. Kudos to the poster above who mentioned that perhaps it's Nicky who had/has a Vietnamese family. Would not surprise me at all. The necklace might've been given initially to Nick, and then when Nick died, perhaps Jack got it. 

Felt very bad for Beth during her job interview - wow - it's so rare to see her lose her composure like that. Notice how she was twisting her wedding rings again, her signature nervous habit. 

[Ohiopirate02]

27 minutes ago, topanga said:

If Jack had been there to tell the tech a story about Toby’s rough childhood and Kate’s miscarriage and subsequent rounds of IVF, Toby would’ve gotten the meds.

Of course, the pharmacist would have stopped everything to drive over to Toby's doctor's office to get the prescription for him.  

[zillabreeze]

Quote

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

. The idea of Jack having a Vietnamese love interest.....who you just know will die. Will she come back like Michelle in Magnum PI or be dead and never mentioned like Apollonia in the Godfather. However, you just know that she will die in the most impossibly sad way possible....maybe killed by his brother while pregnant with triplets ...or dying on a flight to the US like Henry Blake

 

Marry me!  This gave me projectile laugh snot.

[Lady Iris]

In what world does a limo company keep their bar stocked with alcohol when transporting teens?

What happened to the Pearson family dog? Havent seen him make an appearance s/p death o'jack. Or have I missed him?

[Katy M]

Just now, Lady Iris said:

In what world does a limo company keep their bar stocked with alcohol when transporting teens?

What happened to the Pearson family dog? Havent seen him make an appearance s/p death o'jack. Or have I missed him?

We don't know that he got drunk in the limo do we?  Some of their friends may have brought alcohol.

Kate gave the dog away.

[Biggie B]

Quote

We don't know that he got drunk in the limo do we?

 In the limo, Kevin reached down to the little mini bar, grabbed one of the little bottles, uncapped it, and chugged it. Whether he drank more of those little bottles, and/or continued drinking once at the prom, it seems not to matter, as the end result was the same.

[roughing it]

Kevin is color blind when it comes to race - he doesn't see Randall as black, he sees him as his brother.  It's the show that keeps bonking us on the head with HEY, RANDALL IS BLACK every single week.  Also with Zoe, she's his girlfriend, not his "black" girlfriend.  Again, show, anvil.

[bichonblitz]

13 hours ago, MissL said:

So This is my theory based on what I saw tonight. Miguel spends a lot of time around the family and gets close to Rebecca and he makes some sort of move when they have a "moment".  She freaks and feels uncomfortable and like she's betraying Jack and shuts him out and yells he can't be a replacement Jack.  He moves away and they reconnect years later. Didn't they show her getting a message from him when she's a bit older?

Rebecca said in a past episode that they re-connected on Facebook, or maybe it was shown. Can't remember which but it was definitely later and it was definitely Facebook. I remembered it because I thought it strange because hasn't FB only been around for 10 years or so? 

[WhosThatGirl]

This is the first episode this season I liked. Did I love t? No, but I liked it and enjoyed it more than the previous ones this season.

I did a little eye roll when the guy told Kate she was too good of a singer to be doing singing teleagrams. Like really? I’m sorry but I hate it when shows do this stuff. Like Kate is talented no doubt about that but do we need to be told constantly.. and is she that talented? Like weren’t we told last season she needs to work on her voice more? 

Kevin is my favorite character this season. I mean I can see why it seems like His obviousness towards race is a problem but like someone else said, Kevin doesn’t see the color or Randall or Zoe.. because he doesn’t. And I think that’s how Kevin is, he doesn’t look too closely at situations, he doesn’t really look past the forest to see the trees in most cases. He doesn’t analyze things like his two siblings tend to do. Even his dads death I’m not sure he processed it as Kate and Randall, it seems like he started drinking his way through it, unlike Randall who decided to become the man of the house and Kate who manifested it in her weight. It seems to me that Kevin started drinking and it became ignored in a way.

I think he’s slowly starting to grow as he has grown up and he has experienced and dealt with his issues that he’s trying to become more aware of his actions, the actions of other people and the consequences of his behavior. But I feel like he has shown growth more than sometimes Randall and Kate. 

 

1 minute ago, bichonblitz said:

Rebecca said in a past episode that they re-connected on Facebook, or maybe it was shown. Can't remember which but it was definitely later and it was definitely Facebook. I remembered it because I thought it strange because hasn't FB only been around for 10 years or so? 

They did. And I think it was supposed to be right after Facebook just started because Beth was confused about why Rebecca would want one and Rebecca said “I just heard.. maybe you can talk to

people” and Beth said she would set one up for her,  In the episode when the big theee were in their 20s, right after Randall and Beth had their first baby, Rebecca set up her fb page and posted a picture and Miguel sent her a message saying hello.

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Beth. Huh. Throwing out a theory here: very early onset Alzheimer’s? In the flashforward, could be Randall and adult Tess visiting Beth, now totally senile.

I've been expecting the flash-forward to be about Beth for awhile. I won't be surprised at all if they reveal that the reason Beth stopped the interview wasn't because she was emotional, but because she got momentarily disoriented, or something to that effect.

[topanga]

21 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Kevin is color blind when it comes to race - he doesn't see Randall as black, he sees him as his brother.  It's the show that keeps bonking us on the head with HEY, RANDALL IS BLACK every single week.  Also with Zoe, she's his girlfriend, not his "black" girlfriend.  Again, show, anvil.

Probably, but black Randall will almost always be treated differently by society than white Randall would. Same thing with black Zoe vs. white Zoe. And that’s not to say that she and Kevin shouldn’t date. But they both have a responsibility to communicate the realities of their lives to one another. It sounds like they’ve started having those conversations. 

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, AriAu said:

The idea of Jack having a Vietnamese love interest.....who you just know will die. Will she come back like Michelle in Magnum PI or be dead and never mentioned like Apollonia in the Godfather. However, you just know that she will die in the most impossibly sad way possible....maybe killed by his brother while pregnant with triplets ...or dying on a flight to the US like Henry Blake.

Oh please please please!

I assume you meant the Vietnamese love interest was pregnant, not the brother

[Arcadiasw]

1 hour ago, sigmaforce86 said:

The racism in the store is one thing; Zoe being upset about the pillowcase was a little much though.  I get that many black men automatically knew what she meant but I'd suspect that many wouldn't.  I don't think that one comes down to racism as much as it comes down to men not knowing or not wanting to know all the things ladies do as a "beauty routine".  It's like anything else, some know all about it, some know a few things and some are totally in the dark.  I'm the same way about guys even those who do the bare minimum; I have no idea about aftershave vs cologne and apparently there are conditioners you can use between the shaving and the aftershave splashy stuff and the nose hair thing and to be honest I don't want to know.  

I'm not surprised Kevin didn't know what the scarf meant. Regardless of race, not every guy knows every woman beauty regime. I get Zoe not wanting to explain but if he doesn't know and has never been exposed to that, how does she expect him to know? He's not a mind reader. If a random stranger or acquantance ask, tell them to google it. If it's a friend or SO tell them. 

 

43 minutes ago, Mrs.Monkey said:

What surprised me about the convenience store scene was that no one recognized Kevin. He was the Manny. Now he's starring in a big movie. But no one in the store noticed that. Same thing with the conversation with the soldier's wife. Yes Zoe is dating a white man, but she's also dating a celebrity. How was that not part of the conversation?

It's not surprising since The Manny has been over for a couple years for Kevin and when we see celebrities most times they are dressed up for events. Kevin was dressed down in a convenience store in Baltimore. Not L.A. or NY. If he was spotted, how many customers will actually believe it's Kevin and not someone who looked like Kevin?

[Katy M]

34 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Kevin is color blind when it comes to race - he doesn't see Randall as black, he sees him as his brother.  It's the show that keeps bonking us on the head with HEY, RANDALL IS BLACK every single week.  Also with Zoe, she's his girlfriend, not his "black" girlfriend.  Again, show, anvil.

Then how do we explain his reaction to be replaced with a Black Manny?  I don't think he's prejudiced, but I wouldn't call him color blind, either.

 

24 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Rebecca said in a past episode that they re-connected on Facebook, or maybe it was shown. Can't remember which but it was definitely later and it was definitely Facebook. I remembered it because I thought it strange because hasn't FB only been around for 10 years or so? 

Facebook has been around since 2005 and Jack died in '98.  I definitely got the impression that it had been a few years in between, so doesn't seem too far-fetched.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I never said they had a house, I agree that it was an apartment too.  I think you're quoting the wrong quote here.  I'm referring to homeowners insurance from the house that burned down.  and to add that it's an apt, when Miguel  brought over the piano, it was clearly an inside hallway, with numbered doors and Miguel said something about climbing two flights of stairs. :)  

I was replying to two quotes, yours being one, to make the point that she's not currently in a house, insurance proceeds or not.  So no disagreement here. 

[atiyah9369]

15 hours ago, Jewlmc said:

Was the Prom thing a way to highlight how stupid Zoe is?  Because Kevin grew up with a black brother.  Pretty sure he's seen some racist side eye. He's not new to this.

I had to say hey Kevin has a black brother he has to know about racism but then Kevin was a jerk towards Randall a lot.

[watcher1006]

"Go back to where you came from". It's easy to see where the owner of the restaurant was coming from when he said that to Randall. Not just that Randall was not even living where he was running for office, but he couldn't possibly understand their living situation, having lived his adult life as part of the 1%, or even the 0.1%. He could be idealistic and well meaning, but those living in the district could be realistic and know how hard it is to bring about change and how the blight in their neighborhoods isn't necessarily due to the indifference of their elected representatives.

[Driad]

3 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

Kate's "I push music away when I'm sad" is just whatever . Her 2 characteristics are 1) I'm big and 2) I sing. -- so half of your defining characteristics we've seen so far are GONE when you're sad which is USUALLY. So now we just have a big girl with no personality or anything to offer.  Show us more ABOUT Kate, writers . And I dont mean sarcasm and pregnancy. Who the f IS she?! 

Kate, I will *not* let you ruin the Star Trek: Next Generation episode with Picard and the flute for me.

I wish Kate were teaching music to children, or doing something else that could help some of us believe that music and/or children are so important to her.

[Katy M]

I have a question. I've always lived in small towns.  In big cities are these district councilmen races things that are usually hotly contested, or is it just a TV thing?

1 minute ago, Driad said:

Kate, I will *not* let you ruin the Star Trek: Next Generation episode with Picard and the flute for me.

I wish Kate were teaching music to children, or doing something else that could help some of us believe that music and/or children are so important to her.

What have these hypothetical children ever done to you?  They come in for a music lesson and they come out having heard how much Kate's life sucks and how much she loved her dad.  I think we've seen that music is at least somewhat important to her.  But she associated it with her dad and couldn't pick it up again until Toby pushed her towards it.  Kids are another story.  I've seen nothing maternal about her.  I wish she hadn't lost that other baby, because she doesn't seem to be interested enough in kids to go through all this work and expense.  Whereas the accidental pregnancy was somewhat out of her hands.  And there would still be health complications and drama to go through.

[NUguy514]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

10 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I get it, though.  The number of very well-meaning straight people who've said to me, "I know this gay guy, and he's also single.  You guys should totally meet!"  Like, that's not how attraction works, and it just makes me feel so diminished, and the conversation about why it's diminishing really can be exhausting because the intention really does come from a loving place, however misguided.  Randall's and now Zoe's feelings of "otherness" have been very relatable to me even though my "otherness" is of a different ilk.

You know that happens to straight people, too, right?

Respectfully, no, it doesn't, and you just perfectly exemplified my point.  I can only speak to my own personal experience, so here it is: for me, there is a big difference between "I know this guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" and "I know this gay guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!"  It can be exhausting to explain why the one-word difference is so important because a lot of straight people really do think there is no difference between the two statements, but there is.  It's another reminder of my particular "otherness" when people qualify that sentence, and I think it's important to understand why.  Frankly, straight people aren't really reminded every day that they're straight, but I am reminded every day that I'm not; this can be a subtle way in which that reminder manifests itself, even though it's communicated with the best of intentions.  Straight people are not attracted to each other because they're straight; the same is true for LGBT people.  When I receive the latter statement, the implicit message is that I should meet the guy because we're both single and, more importantly, gay.  Let me tell you, my gay friends and I never say the second statement to each other (nor, to be fair, do my close straight friends because they know me well and know what kind of person I'm attracted to); we say the first because we know that attraction has nothing to do with sexuality, and the second statement implies that it does.  Anyway, I hope that makes a bit of sense.

[kilda]

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

I found it interesting that Zoe opened up to a complete stranger, the wife of Jack's army buddy. I mean, it shows that these two strangers  completely and totally "get" what each is talking about - a cultural/ethnic shorthand that we've probably all experienced in some way or another. But regardless, these two don't know each other at all. Still, we saw Rebecca having a pretty personal conversation with her former boyfriend's mother about whether Rebecca should pursue a relationship with Jack, so why not?

I got more out of this episode than last week, that's for sure. Kudos to the poster above who mentioned that perhaps it's Nicky who had/has a Vietnamese family. Would not surprise me at all. The necklace might've been given initially to Nick, and then when Nick died, perhaps Jack got it. 

Felt very bad for Beth during her job interview - wow - it's so rare to see her lose her composure like that. Notice how she was twisting her wedding rings again, her signature nervous habit. 

boundaries aren't really a thing for the characters on this show.  People are sharing their feelings and deep fears with random strangers on this show ALL the time.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, NUguy514 said:

Respectfully, no, it doesn't, and you just perfectly exemplified my point.  I can only speak to my own personal experience, so here it is: for me, there is a big difference between "I know this guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" and "I know this gay guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!"  It can be exhausting to explain why the one-word difference is so important because a lot of straight people really do think there is no difference between the two statements, but there is.  It's another reminder of my particular "otherness" when people qualify that sentence, and I think it's important to understand why.  Frankly, straight people aren't really reminded every day that they're straight, but I am reminded every day that I'm not; this can be a subtle way in which that reminder manifests itself, even though it's communicated with the best of intentions.  Straight people are not attracted to each other because they're straight; the same is true for LGBT people.  When I receive the latter statement, the implicit message is that I should meet the guy because we're both single and, more importantly, gay.  Let me tell you, my gay friends and I never say the second statement to each other (nor, to be fair, do my close straight friends because they know me well and know what kind of person I'm attracted to); we say the first because we know that attraction has nothing to do with sexuality, and the second statement implies that it does.  Anyway, I hope that makes a bit of sense.

Well as someone who is disabled, people automatically assume I should date someone else who’s disabled.

[marceline]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Wow. Those must have been tough experiences for you. How do those memories affect you now? And no offense, but your friends sucked.

Not all of them. LOL! In many cases it was just like with Kevin, they simply didn't comprehend what was happening at the time. Some of these friends now have gone on to lead lives of open-mindedness and diversity. I like to think I had a hand in that. Others...not so much. Like so many others, I forgave but didn't forget. Though I admit, the one who made me duck down in the car, that's something I've never forgotten and it taught me to be a lot more careful about friends who didn't have my back. That's why I really understand why Randall just didn't want to go to prom after that. They joy was sucked out of it for him.  I think that's also why I was kind of pissed at Kevin for going without him. I know what that's like too. "Hey just because that guy called you a n***** doesn't mean we can't stay at this party!"

 

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

Kevin is color blind when it comes to race - he doesn't see Randall as black, he sees him as his brother.  It's the show that keeps bonking us on the head with HEY, RANDALL IS BLACK every single week.  Also with Zoe, she's his girlfriend, not his "black" girlfriend.  Again, show, anvil.

Kevin isn't color blind. He's self-involved. He doesn't see what doesn't affect him. He learns when it's pointed out but in the end he's still always the guy who feels like Randall and Kate got all the attention.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

"I know this guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" and "I know this gay guy/gal who's also single. 

I don't really understand.  Of course they're not going to try to set you up with a straight guy. And if you're insinuating that when people set up straight people that they're not just randomly assuming single girl and single guy will like each other because they're both still single, then you are mistaken.

 

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well as someone who is disabled, people automatically assume I should date someone else who’s disabled.

I see that as a more valid argument.   There is no reason a disabled and non-diabled person can't date, or any reason why two disabled people would be more likely to be interested in each other than a mix and match situation, which is not the case with the gay/straight example.

[Kdawg82]

7 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

for me, there is a big difference between "I know this guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" and "I know this gay guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" 

This reminds me of something my college professor said.  I LOVED his humor...off topic but here goes - 

"Oh your son is 8? so is my son! They're the same age- they should get together to play!" He says "just bc two people are the same age doesn't mean they'll get along ! Ever hear of high school? I've met people my age- they're called a**holes!" 

Anyway it always cracked me up and I think alludes to the same. A commonality does not make an attraction or a relationship.  

[topanga]

50 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

I'm not surprised Kevin didn't know what the scarf meant. Regardless of race, not every guy knows every woman beauty regime. I get Zoe not wanting to explain but if he doesn't know and has never been exposed to that, how does she expect him to know? He's not a mind reader. If a random stranger or acquantance ask, tell them to google it. If it's a friend or SO tell them. 

 

It's not surprising since The Manny has been over for a couple years for Kevin and when we see celebrities most times they are dressed up for events. Kevin was dressed down in a convenience store in Baltimore. Not L.A. or NY. If he was spotted, how many customers will actually believe it's Kevin and not someone who looked like Kevin?

When they started the road trip, they were friends with terrific benefits (According to Kevin). He actually wanted to introduce Zoe as his girlfriend, but she wasn’t ready for that label yet. So I don’t know if she’d admitted to herself that they were friends. 

Were they already in Baltimore, or had they stopped in another Maryland City for gas and snacks? Many Maryland cities, even parts of Baltimore, can seem like small Southern towns. Not that being in the south = racist, but interracial dating isn’t quite as common as it is in more northern locations. Although this is changing rapidly.

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

In what world does a limo company keep their bar stocked with alcohol when transporting teens?

What happened to the Pearson family dog? Havent seen him make an appearance s/p death o'jack. Or have I missed him?

in the world of the 80's....glorious times, just glorious, or you just tip the driver and he'd go to the liquor store for you.  #truestory

41 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I have a question. I've always lived in small towns.  In big cities are these district councilmen races things that are usually hotly contested, or is it just a TV thing?

What have these hypothetical children ever done to you?  They come in for a music lesson and they come out having heard how much Kate's life sucks and how much she loved her dad.  I think we've seen that music is at least somewhat important to her.  But she associated it with her dad and couldn't pick it up again until Toby pushed her towards it.  Kids are another story.  I've seen nothing maternal about her.  I wish she hadn't lost that other baby, because she doesn't seem to be interested enough in kids to go through all this work and expense.  Whereas the accidental pregnancy was somewhat out of her hands.  And there would still be health complications and drama to go through.

Oh its real. I live in Chicago and if you have a city job, or your neighbor has a city job, you best vote for your career alderman.  It gets real ugly around here, real fast too.  

Edited October 24, 2018 by TV Diva Queen

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, topanga said:

Were they already in Baltimore, or had they stopped in another Maryland City for gas and snacks? Many Maryland cities, even parts of Baltimore, can seem like small Southern towns. Not that being in the south = racist, but interracial dating isn’t quite as common as it is in more northern locations. Although this is changing rapidly.

By the way, I know that that exchange was supposed to be racist, but I did the same thing to a couple and they were both white.  Man was putting some snacks on the counter and a woman came up and slapped some stuff down in front of his.  They didn't even look at each other or anything. So, I said "He was here first. "  She snapped back "we're together."  And I said "OK."  I don't know if they were in the middle of a fight or what, but it was really weird.

[Kdawg82]

The Zoe questioning relationship bc of racial difference is a little off IMO. Bc she is standing in a kitchen, a successful documentarian who rubs elbows w/ celebs & is described as "fancy," talking to a stranger who is presumably married to a handicapped war veteran (insert lifelong set of challenges & struggles here), lamenting Kevin doesnt understand her grooming rituals or covert racism towards her. Every relationship is about learning a person until the day you die.  I love how Kevin redeemed himself by an act of caring in the end.  But it's not all racial. Zoe may not understand Kevin's alcoholism and sobriety. She may want wine one day in front of his face and he'll pass on it.  There are many complexities to a human being without just that one thing to make her question the entire relationship. If she's got a "long list of hearts she has broken" I'd assume its not the only issue she has not 1st white guy for her. The show is lovely but pushes hard to -as mentioned- constantly remind us of race of the characters . I wish they could just be people for once .

[Dowel Jones]

If Randall was just a bit more astute, he would have realized that it would be far more effective to find out what people in that area wanted for their families, friends, and neighborhood.  Then maybe support them and get them pointed in a direction to work on those goals as a community, so they have some ownership.  By running for election he makes the problems and solutions all about him, and the residents are secondary (not that this doesn't happen in real life elections).  As it is, the councilman, instead of dealing with local citizens, has Randall as a lightning rod without any support.

[Driad]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

What have these hypothetical children ever done to you?  They come in for a music lesson and they come out having heard how much Kate's life sucks and how much she loved her dad.

Sorry, I meant to say teaching music to children *well* and showing she loves music and children enough that she doesn't complain while she is teaching.  But that Kate would be a totally different character.

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I don't really understand.  Of course they're not going to try to set you up with a straight guy. And if you're insinuating that when people set up straight people that they're not just randomly assuming single girl and single guy will like each other because they're both still single, then you are mistaken.

I spent years identifying as straight, and now for many years I've identified as gay.

And in my experience (and the experience of just about every other queer person I know), people are much more likely to say, "Oh, you're gay? I know another gay person I can fix you up with," than they are to fix you up with someone just because you're both straight.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Blakeston

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I spent years identifying as straight, and then years identifying as gay.

And in my experience (and the experience of just about every other queer person I know), people are much more likely to say, "Oh, you're gay? I know another gay person I can fix you up with," than they are to fix you up with someone just because you're both straight.

I mean I understand that and as I said, I go though the same thing since I’m handicapped people just assume that they know someone else who’s single and handicapped and we would totally be great together! I get that a lot, that since I have  hard time finding someone maybe I should only date within that box.

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I don't really understand.  Of course they're not going to try to set you up with a straight guy. And if you're insinuating that when people set up straight people that they're not just randomly assuming single girl and single guy will like each other because they're both still single, then you are mistaken.

Yeah, you really don't understand, and that wasn't what I was insinuating at all.  "I know this guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" is almost always followed by "He/she is super cool, very cute, very smart, very funny, so sweet, etc." which lets a person know why he/she might want to meet this other person.  "I know this gay guy/gal who's also single.  You two should totally meet!" is not followed by anything because the fact that both of you are gay is why people think you should meet.  Read your second sentence again: that's exactly what I'm saying happens to us gay folks all the time, and that is not what happens to straight people.  If you can't recognize that important distinction, and I'm honestly not sure you do, there's nothing more to say.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

The Zoe questioning relationship bc of racial difference is a little off IMO. Bc she is standing in a kitchen, a successful documentarian who rubs elbows w/ celebs & is described as "fancy," talking to a stranger who is presumably married to a handicapped war veteran (insert lifelong set of challenges & struggles here), lamenting Kevin doesnt understand her grooming rituals or covert racism towards her. Every relationship is about learning a person until the day you die.  I love how Kevin redeemed himself by an act of caring in the end.  But it's not all racial. Zoe may not understand Kevin's alcoholism and sobriety. She may want wine one day in front of his face and he'll pass on it.  There are many complexities to a human being without just that one thing to make her question the entire relationship. If she's got a "long list of hearts she has broken" I'd assume its not the only issue she has not 1st white guy for her. The show is lovely but pushes hard to -as mentioned- constantly remind us of race of the characters . I wish they could just be people for once .

I agree.  My husband used to like to say he understood women because he had eight sisters.  For years he would get me plants as gifts because his sisters had told him he couldn't go wrong there and all my hints and visuals of dead plants never shook his confidence that I would loved getting them.  I finally had to tell him I didn't care if he understood women, I wanted him to understand me.  Plants were just one of many things that needed explaining, for example,  since we're talking about hair, he was a little shocked to see me in my big jumbo rollers the first time.  I have hair that frizzes unless  it's stretched over those rollers and his sisters, with their  naturally straight hair had never had the same problems.  In fact one of them told me I should try her conditioner as though a good conditioner would make my hair straight.  Point being, I always wanted to be appreciated as an individual and would never want to be lumped into a group as big as a race. 

--------------------

Rebecca needs to sit her teenage kids down and have a serious talk about their rudeness to Miguel.  Young Kate's snide remark about the piano making the room smaller was just not how anyone should ever talk about a gift and Randall cutting off Miguel's Ricky Ricardo story was cruel.  I know they're young and missing their dad but sometimes there's just no excuse.

Overall, I loved this episode, I've always like Toby and I found his portrayal of someone fighting depression until he finally broke down, extremely  moving, even Emmy-worthy.

[CleoCaesar]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I've been expecting the flash-forward to be about Beth for awhile. I won't be surprised at all if they reveal that the reason Beth stopped the interview wasn't because she was emotional, but because she got momentarily disoriented, or something to that effect.

Yeah, she really seemed to be struggling for words. It looked like cognitive fog. I too really don't buy that the Beth we've seen for 2 seasons - cool, snarky, with-it Beth - would just start blubbering in the middle of a job interview because she was overcome with mourning her old job.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

"Go back to where you came from". It's easy to see where the owner of the restaurant was coming from when he said that to Randall. Not just that Randall was not even living where he was running for office, but he couldn't possibly understand their living situation, having lived his adult life as part of the 1%, or even the 0.1%. He could be idealistic and well meaning, but those living in the district could be realistic and know how hard it is to bring about change and how the blight in their neighborhoods isn't necessarily due to the indifference of their elected representatives.

True enough.  Change is hard, but long-term representatives can become complacent and sometimes an injection of new talent is what is needed.  Randall's reply was poignant though kind of irrelevant to the matter at hand. 

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, kilda said:

boundaries aren't really a thing for the characters on this show.  People are sharing their feelings and deep fears with random strangers on this show ALL the time.

But don't people do that all the time, when they go out to bars?  I don't get why that's so strange.

[ShadowFacts]

32 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Kate can't accept any compliment about her singing and I assume other things as well, because she can't get past her past.  She is emotionally constipated filled with unresolved issues.  She needs an enema of enlightenment.  She needs to resolve those issues, not wallow in them.

I'm totally stealing that. 

[blondiec0332]

7 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

2 hours ago, kilda said:

boundaries aren't really a thing for the characters on this show.  People are sharing their feelings and deep fears with random strangers on this show ALL the time.

But don't people do that all the time, when they go out to bars?  I don't get why that's so strange.

Maybe after a few drinks.

[Dreamboat Annie]

A little confused here.  Did we just see, in this episode, the scene shown to us at the end of the S2 finale, in March, when on screen it said "one year later" - the scene where Kate tells bedridden Toby that she called his doctor about his meds?  Is it a year later now?  I have no problem if now it's one year later (the magic of television etc.), and I get that the show jumps all over the past and into the future, but I always thought the present played out in real time (as much as possible).  For example, Thanksgiving and Christmas episodes are timely. 

This was the right episode to remind me how much I love the Teenage Big Three.  The kids who play them - wow those kids can really act.  I may not have liked how Miguel was treated but I was blown away by the acting.  Teen Randall conveys so much through his expressions without having to say a word. 

[voiceover]

Quote

I don't think I've ever discussed someone's hair care regime with them, so I don't find it odd at all that Beth and Kevin would never have discussed that.

I'm starting to regret ever bringing this up.

I never meant that I thought Beth & Kevin would discuss hair care!!!

Because that would be a bit weird.

I meant, one way the writers could've handled the pillowcase sitch is: 

Kevin guessed why, because one time Beth/his nieces mentioned something like that to him.  So he was able to jump to that conclusion.

That. Is. All.

Beth, Kevin, his nieces = never having a haircare convo: Sure.  Totally believable too.

47 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

But don't people do that all the time, when they go out to bars?  I don't get why that's so strange.

In bars, on a 5-hour flight, etc etc.

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Yeah, she really seemed to be struggling for words. It looked like cognitive fog. I too really don't buy that the Beth we've seen for 2 seasons - cool, snarky, with-it Beth - would just start blubbering in the middle of a job interview because she was overcome with mourning her old job.

That would also explain the scene with her getting fired.  He said something about her being less valuable l ately. And the HR woman, assuming that's what she was, was giving him signals to be quiet about it.  they wouldn't want her to know they were letting her go because they thought she was getting dementia as then she could sue them.

8 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Did we just see, in this episode, the scene shown to us at the end of the S2 finale, in March, when on screen it said "one year later" - the scene where Kate tells bedridden Toby that she called his doctor about his meds?  Is it a year later now?  I have no problem if now it's one year later (the magic of television etc.), and I get that the show jumps all over the past and into the future, but I always thought the present played out in real time (as much as possible).  For example, Thanksgiving and Christmas episodes are timely. 

I thought it specifically didn't give a time.  Because obviously the scenes with Toby and Kate, and Kevin and Zoe wasn't taking place at the same time as the Randall/Tess stuff that happened right after those scenes.  

[mommalib]

6 hours ago, kilda said:

he is trying, and his intentions are good, but there's something so condescending about the way he thought he could just swoop in and save the poor neighborhood.  He's being obliviously classist the same way some people are obliviously racist.  He marches in, talks about everything that's wrong with the neighborhood and how he's going to be their savior.  Instead of just coming to be WITH them, get to know them, and find out what they think and want.  This is what ChiChi was trying to say when she said "you're not one of us."  (as a friend of mine in college once clarified to her boyfriend, "we are not an Us.").  He means so well but he needs to learn to listen to people instead of barging in to be their savior.

On another note, it's so sad to see him feeling like he belongs nowhere.  Doesn't fit with white people, doesn't fit with black people.  He's just trying to find who he can be an "us" with. 

Listening is something I think Randall will learn to do, I think this season for Randall is about growth.