S01.E10: Silence Lay Steadily

[MissL]

40 minutes ago, Lamima said:

Didn't like the Abby and her parents (the caretakers) in the end. Didn't add up. They seemed way too pleased to get a ghost daughter. And the very end with him bringing her to the house to die and they show the happy family of 3 at the end...too silly and way too rosey for the rest of the series (where bent neck girl killed Nell's husband). That little happy family picture was too Beetlejuice for me. Not a fit.

Agreed on the happy family. 

But did bent neck (Nellie) really kill Arthur? I feel like Nelle thought that but the fact is bent neck lady IS Nelle and she was just observing and didn't want to cause harm to Arthur. I think he somehow really had an aneurysm and she was there to witness. 

[Anela]

You could get a happier ending, without everything suddenly turning into an episode of a Hallmark show. I think it would have been nicer for the dad to survive, and get to know his family all over again. He'd already sacrificed years, thinking he was doing the right thing.

I don't see the house letting them go, just because the dad sacrificed himself. It was greedy, and haunted them for the rest of their lives. Theo suddenly being all happy and healthy was weird, Shirley confessing about an affair - rather than a house murdering almost half of her family - too weird. My computer battery is about to die, but you get the idea.

[buffy11bnl]

3 hours ago, MissL said:

Agreed on the happy family. 

But did bent neck (Nellie) really kill Arthur? I feel like Nelle thought that but the fact is bent neck lady IS Nelle and she was just observing and didn't want to cause harm to Arthur. I think he somehow really had an aneurysm and she was there to witness. 

I think it was a Catch -22 it was a moment of extreme terror for Nell (Arthur falling/dying) and it seems like the Bent Neck Lady (BNL) often showed up when she was really upset - therefore when Nellie/BNL merged/went back through time/her memories the BNL was going to appear because she already *had* appeared (it’s my least favorite  time travel trope - what’s the point in going back if you can’t change anything?)

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I think it would have been nicer for the dad to survive, and get to know his family all over again. He'd already sacrificed years, thinking he was doing the right thing.

It was interesting that his "happy ending" was to abandon all but one of his kids to go live ghost life with his wife and one daughter. But maybe it was for the best, since he was a crappy father. Maybe getting rid of him was why the rest of the kids finally got back together. lol (kidding. I know it's because...reasons that don't actually exist, they just wanted them to be all better so they were.)

I mean, why were they all suddenly unhaunted? Was Nell such a bad seed that she was holding them all back? Was it dad who was the poison in the family? Did they house just want Mom, Dad and one of the kids but not the rest? What was it that "fixed" them all?

[Lamima]

Yeah....there's no way to make sense of the story (lots of holes). But the acting and scenery/filmography was good. So it was a nice watch. Not awesome great but not the worst. I hate when the story/script is not great and the acting's not great and the scenery isn't anything special. Those are dud shows (like the new Manifest). But this one isn't mediocre to bad in all 3 areas. So there's that.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Lamima

[kelslamu]

Didn't Aunt Janet have tons of questions for the Dad?  Hey, here's all our kids and I'm not gonna tell you the details.  If they ask anything, just say you don't know.  Let them wonder for years why Dad left Mom, came back all bloody and then gave us away.  His arms were too busy holding back the house from the kids that he didn't have any arms left to hug them.  Apparently, nothing left to talk to them about either.  I can see where these kids would have issues just from that, no ghosts included.  lol  The last episode was a wordy let down for me.

[Rap541]

It's a fair point that it was never really explained why Hugh lost custody of the kids - he doesn't appear to have gone to jail for the wife's death or the death of Abigail Dudley.

[pricklypear]

Just finished all ten episodes. Ditto to everyone who said this last episode was a disappointment and not at all fitting with the rest of the episodes. It was just too...tidy for a haunted house story. And it really took the teeth and terror out of the previous episodes. I am a horror movie/show/story fanatic, and I haven't seen anything sufficiently scary in a long time. This is the first thing I've watched in forever where I had to look through my fingers in anticipation of something scary (and there was at least one scene that made me scream so loud that I made my kids scream, LOL).

But then the super sappy ending was really unsatisfying. I know there are cases to be made for keeping the house malevolent and also for having the ghosts be at peace, but the show never really tied those two things together. For nine episodes, the house was after the family. It wanted to "eat" them. And then in the last episode, suddenly people were flocking to become a part of it? They needed to choose one or the other or do a better job of filling in that gap. (Personally, I would have gone with the malevolence and not just as a metaphor for everyone's personal demons, which admittedly was fairly well done.) I've seen movies do it in under two hours, so I know it can be done.

Not sure where to ask this question, but I am wondering if anyone knows the drive behind the decision to cast Hugh with two different actors. Don't get me wrong. I love Henry Thomas and Timothy Hutton both (though, I'd have to say that TH's acting was far superior to HT's in this show). It was really jarring to me to watch scenes of "young" Hugh and then right after "old" Hugh, knowing the actors aren't much different in age. Couldn't they just have aged HT for the present-day scenes or made TH look a little younger for the flashbacks? It really took me out of the scenes. 

On the same note, the kids who played the younger versions of the adult actors were spot on. That was brilliant casting.

Overall a good show, but man, I wish they had been able to stick the landing.

Edited October 24, 2018 by pricklypear

[Nordly Beaumont]

9 hours ago, Rap541 said:

It's a fair point that it was never really explained why Hugh lost custody of the kids - he doesn't appear to have gone to jail for the wife's death or the death of Abigail Dudley.

Don't know about what happened regarding the wife, but the police wouldn't know Abigail died. Her dad took her body to bury on their property. This would keep the police from looking into it.  Her dad said "no one would know to mourn her" since few people knew she existed.

[Rap541]

1 hour ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

Don't know about what happened regarding the wife, but the police wouldn't know Abigail died. Her dad took her body to bury on their property. This would keep the police from looking into it.  Her dad said "no one would know to mourn her" since few people knew she existed.

But in a prior flashback we see Hugh being yelled at by the black cop and the black cop is clearly talking about Olivia being dead but then adds "and we haven't even discussed that other body!" - at the time I thought it was a reference to the dead man found but then I recalled that black cop came out for that as well. So clearly there was another body found in the home the night Olivia killed herself. 

[tangerine95]

I loved the show but I can agree the ending was a bit too happy.Or at least the show presented some creepy stuff as happy.Like the Dudley couple visiting their dead daughter in the house for the rest of their lives.I thought that was pretty creepy especially as Abigail was murdered,trapped in a house with her killer and she was a kid who never even got to live basically but it was presented as a happy family reunion.And the stuff with Olivia forcing Hugh to stay with her so she lets their children go.I thought it was pretty tragic that she never regained her old self and never got over the influence of the house.But even there I feel like the show was leaning more on the happy reunion aspect.

I also didn't get the sense that the house was now under control.Like yeah for now because it got fed with Nell,Hugh and the Dudleys but what happens when it gets hungry again tho.

I was glad the surviving Crain family got some happiness and resolved some issues because I feel like it was earned and they had enough tragedy.

[MonicaM]

I admit I was weak and read some spoilers before watching the last two episodes.  Thought that prepared me for the disappointment and let down of an unsatisfying ending, but no such luck.  I was actually kind of angry that such an emotional and gripping ride with this family and house tried to end on a "happy" note with so few real explanations.  As others have said, very reminiscent of American Horror Story.  

Fewer monologues and many more explanations would have helped.  Now I can only halfheartedly recommend this series to others, and can't decide if I should warn them about the finale or let them be surprised in their disappointment.  

[tennisgurl]

I admit, I have mixed feelings on how the show ended, but I still loved the show, and it was a great Halloween season watch. I had a lot of doubts, considering its such a big departure from the book and the movie (the good one), but I think it ended up having a lot of the same themes, that the real terrors arent ghosts and things that go bump in the night, but trauma, being unsure of your own mind, and, most obviously, being haunted by your past. As far as that went, I think the show nailed it. 

That being said, I dont think this was the best ending they could have come up with. I dont hate that they had something of a happy ending, as I felt like the Crane kids definitely earned some relief, but I dont really like how it all came about. So many speeches! And I still have so many questions! And while I dont need everything explained to me, I did want a few more answers, like about Arthur and the other ghosts and how the time travel style stuff worked, etc. I also felt like the Olivia/Hugh/Nell and Mrs. Dudley and her dead kids all staying in the house forever was supposed to be more heartwarming, but I found it kind of creepy. I wouldn't want to spend my eternity there! But, I guess I can understand them wanting to be with their families. I also wanted to know more about the ghosts. We saw a whole freaking swarm of them at the end, who were they!? I wanted to hear their stories! 

I did get why the kids got to leave the house without the ghosts trying to get them, at least I think. Hugh said he would stay in the red room on his own, if the kids got to leave, and the house with alright with that. Thats what I got, anyway. 

My favorite part was realizing that the various places we saw the kids and Olivia in were actually the House digesting them. That was super creepy. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

23 hours ago, Rap541 said:

But in a prior flashback we see Hugh being yelled at by the black cop and the black cop is clearly talking about Olivia being dead but then adds "and we haven't even discussed that other body!" - at the time I thought it was a reference to the dead man found but then I recalled that black cop came out for that as well. So clearly there was another body found in the home the night Olivia killed herself.

Hmm... that's right - he did say "that other body" - but they showed Mr. Dudley carrying Abigail's dead body out of the house. So now I'm really confused! Could he have been talking about the dead man? That doesn't make sense either! I liked it better before you reminded me about that line!

Edited October 26, 2018 by Nordly Beaumont

[Rap541]

Well, to be honest, I don't think a family could live in Massachusetts in the 1980s and 1990s (when Abigail would have been born and lived) in such complete isolation that while both parents worked, no one knew that they had a second child. Particularly when Abigail was able to get out of the watchful eye of her parents often enough to be pals with Luke and to get out *at night* to play.

[ichbin]

Mrs. Dudley was cradling an infant in the end, so I guess that means her stillborn child had died in utero while she was working in the house? 

Was Timothy Hutton already a ghost when they were all bringing Luke out to the car? That whole sequence was weird with timing.  Henry Thomas walked past Timothy Hutton and adult Steven and entered the house.  Then we see Timothy Hutton and Steven in the house while Henry Thomas walks past them.  After that we see Timothy Hutton's body.  

They really dropped the ball on the father's story as far as what happened between the time he was being interviewed in the police station until he was on the phone with Nell the night she died.  It seems like a bit more attention should have been given to that.  All we find out about that time is that he was estranged from the kids and the aunt raised them.  How exactly was he holding back the house?  Why have the cop bring up the "other body"?  The series spent soooooooo much on other matters, they could have tied that up more over the span of ten episodes.  Speaking of which, I think the series could have been a lot better with fewer episodes and tighter writing and editing.  

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, so I found episodes 3-9 (and half of this one) very strong. It was really the first two episodes and then the ending to this finale that were very, very weak and keeps me from calling this an amazing series....it's just a good series.

I'm glad I was partially right about the games room being the Red Room....but I didn't realize that all of their special rooms were the Red Room. I thought, when we saw Olivia's reading room, that it was the Red Room, but I shrugged it off. 

I did like the episode right up until the reveal of the Dudleys convincing young Hugh to basically leave the house be so that they could continue seeing their dead daughter. After that, the show got WAYYYYY too cheesy and happy. Like...why should I believe that Kevin would shrug off the affair because Shirley asked him to love her harder? She CHEATED on him and then didn't tell him for six years. I know that's something that they could have been working on up to the quick flashforward of Luke's second year of sobriety, but we didn't get to see that. Also, Theo ending up with the random girl that kept following her throughout the season. I never got the impression that Theo ever liked her and was using her, not that they were somehow this end all couple for her. Oh, and Leigh decides to get back together with Steve after a horrible monologue about houses and bricks or whatever and they end up having a baby. Leigh was more interesting as a ghost-induced dream. 

I think the only ending that made me happy was Luke's. I'm just thrilled his ending didn't include Asshole Junkie Joey. 

I don't mind if the series felt like it should end on a happy note. This ending was just too happy for me. Maybe I was hoping for the house to fight back more or something. I was told, by Hugh, that the house would be most mad at Steve. Where's my scene of the house being super pissed at Steve, show? 

I don't mind that the show still ended on a note where Olivia, and by extension Nell and Luke, have had mental illnesses and the supernatural aspect just used that to their advantages. However....no explanations to the rest of the ghosts? No explanation to Bowler Hat Tall Ghost stalking Luke his entire life, according to him? No explanation to Abigail? I'm guessing it was her ghost following young Luke around since nobody really saw her until the night she died. 

It just felt like their plan was "ok, now happy ending! Kill Daddy, save Luke, and....done! Close the chapter to this story, guys! Good job!" They really could have utilized the finale better than they did, which disappoints me because there was so much potential shown up until this episode. I mean, the Nell stuff was interesting and I loved her speech to the siblings. It sucks that that was her end, though. 

I'll definitely be rewatching the series in the future....but likely skipping the first two episodes and now I might only watch this episode up until Hugh gets Olivia to open the Red Door. 

[millennium]

That was supremely awful.

I suspect that if they had opened the door to another room, they might have found the passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 holding their reunion.

[Lady Calypso]

Reading this article about the alternate ending and it supposed to be the Red Room window appearing at the end of the episode with the siblings celebrating, I wish he HAD kept that ending. Implying that they never escaped the house is a horror trope, yes, but one that fits way better than his sunshine and rainbows ending. 

Though, really, their problems really did start with the damn monologues. Some of them, but especially Steve's in this episode, sounded condescending and somewhat pretenious, as if the screenwriter was saying "Look at how good my writing is. Look at my bazillion monologues with metaphors and illiterations and other great writing techniques!" instead of it sounding natural. The only one that did work for me, now that I think about it, was house!Leigh ranting to Steve about being an eater or whatever. I mean, it was still bad, but it was satisfying to hear the house shit on Steve for two minutes. 

[Cardie]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm guessing it was her ghost following young Luke around since nobody really saw her until the night she died. 

Abigail was the Dudley's real, live daughter that they kept at home. She snuck out and played with Luke. She didn't become a ghost until she drank the poisoned tea.

[millennium]

34 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Abigail was the Dudley's real, live daughter that they kept at home. She snuck out and played with Luke. She didn't become a ghost until she drank the poisoned tea.

I thought she was a ghost the whole time, until the end.   But "she escaped through a vent" had me scratching my head.    What vent?   The dryer vent?  Who can fit through any vent?   Did she transform into a gaseous form first?

I suppose that as long as there's some singer/songwriter type crooning sappily in the background, anything flies.

[Rap541]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Reading this article about the alternate ending and it supposed to be the Red Room window appearing at the end of the episode with the siblings celebrating, I wish he HAD kept that ending. Implying that they never escaped the house is a horror trope, yes, but one that fits way better than his sunshine and rainbows ending. 

I'm torn because honestly while the current ending was too light... that ending would have been too dark. The curse of a ten hour miniseries, as compared to a two hour movie is that the audience starts to like the characters. I'm not sure the idea they were all destroyed by the house would have been better. 

[millennium]

5 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

I'm torn because honestly while the current ending was too light... that ending would have been too dark. The curse of a ten hour miniseries, as compared to a two hour movie is that the audience starts to like the characters. I'm not sure the idea they were all destroyed by the house would have been better. 

The house needed to burn.   This nonsense about preserving it so the living can visit the dead made it sound like a commercial for "A Place For Mom."

I was good with the series until about episode 8.   Then it started feeling like a rehash of movies-gone-before.   The Shining, for example, where Jack mingles with departed entities from the Jazz Age; in Hill House, we have Poppy.   Or Burnt Offerings, where the mother of the family (Karen Black) is possessed by the house and becomes part of it as the new Mrs. Allerdyce; in Hill House, it's mom Olivia who is consumed.    The frequent image of the doorknob also called to mind Burnt Offerings:

 

The ending was terrible.  When Steven corrupted the famous line with "whatever walked there, walked together" (UGH!), I thought the gathered ghosts would hold hands and sing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke."

[Lady Calypso]

37 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

I'm torn because honestly while the current ending was too light... that ending would have been too dark. The curse of a ten hour miniseries, as compared to a two hour movie is that the audience starts to like the characters. I'm not sure the idea they were all destroyed by the house would have been better. 

I do think there was a better way to handle the ending, so I can agree that both endings would be too dark. It's unfortunate that only one detail was changed in this finale, whether or not the Red Room window showed up during the celebration scene, as I thought most of the scenes in the last half were badly written. God, that monologue at the end was horrific and pretentious to listen to.I think Mike Flanagan could have gone a much better direction than what we were given.

I guess my ideal ending would have gone like this: the siblings would have mostly fought their way out of these nightmares themselves. I would have only had Nell show up to save Luke, as he was pretty much dead at that point. I don't think Nell needed to break them all out of their nightmares. Having Nell do it herself implied that none of them could do it without the help of their dead sister, as if they were weak. I was also expecting the house to be super pissed at Steve for those books so I honestly would have had the house attack him a bit more. I would have had the siblings all fight to get out. I know almost all of the ghosts mostly just stood in doorways and did nothing, but maybe it would have worked better if they did something to keep the Crains inside a bit longer. 

I'm disappointed that Hugh sacrificed himself to be with Olivia and to get his kids out, but I expected more of a fight from him, or from Olivia. I don't mind the idea of Hugh allowing himself to die to save his kids, but it was done more because Olivia was lonely and Hugh missed his wife. And as if the house would accept only Hugh as a sacrifice, as if Olivia was the head of the ghost house this entire time. She joined much, much later so for it to seem like she dictated what the house did and did not allow was such an odd choice. 

I could have accepted somewhat of a happy ending if the Crains had to fight harder to survive and get out. And even then, I really would have liked the implication that Hugh's sacrifice was only temporary and the house would come for them again. 

So, clearly I had more expectations that simply didn't pan out. I simply find it odd that the house would just leave the Crains alone for the rest of their lives. 

[Straycat80]

I’m not a fan of scary/horror shows, I watched the first episode because of the hype this show was getting in the media and I got sucked in. I had never heard of this story (book) before. 

I thought the writing was good as well as the acting and all around cast. There were a couple episodes I thought were too draggy (funeral home) and some long winded dialogues I started getting bored with. 

I guess I’m in the minority that I liked the ending but I’m a sucker for happy endings. My only complaints ( and I’m nit picking here) was that I wished they would have swown some history on the ghosts. Did flapper lady kill her kids for real? Why was hat guy levatated? Was Olivia really mentally ill or did the house make her go crazy? I didn’t know Abby was real until she drank the poisoned tea, why was she always dressed in old timey clothes and who was the ghost lady who took her hand and walked away with her when she died? Her parents said they never came to the house after dark so how where they seeing dead infant ghost? How was Steve’s wife pregnant at the end ? 

I don’t know how there can be a season 2 of this but if there is I would watch it. 

[kieyra]

Not my genre. Like a poster above me, the hype train finally sucked me in. 

For me, the scariness peaked with Nell’s hanging, and her moaning “No, no, no” into her younger self’s face. That was really well done and reminded me why I don’t watch horror. Major mindfuck.

The family drama peaked for me in episodes 6-7, with some great stuff between Theo and Shirl on the roadside later. A lot of fabulous acting, and the most I’ve ever admired Elizabeth Reaser’s skills. (She always gets thankless roles.)

After that? It was mostly a whole lot of very long-winded speechifying that I only watched because I wanted to get to “the end”. 

I see above that an alternate ending might have happened, but it doesn’t seem much better. Both feel like taking the easy way out. 

I think there’s a better ending out there somewhere, but they chickened out, or someone higher up interfered. What should have been a heart-pounding finale (and am I the only one who thinks Luke should have been dead too?) was ... a lot of talking, with added saccharine. Minus much internal logic. 

That stuff with the Dudleys felt so rushed and tacked on, like even the actors weren’t buying it. So convenient that the kid was homeschooled, right?

Edited October 30, 2018 by kieyra

[tomsmom]

My biggest issue was poor sweet Nell was tortured by herself (BNL) since she was 5, watches helpless while her husband dies, then dies a horrible death at the house, while junky, thieving Luke gets a happy ending. Why did Nell deserve all that??? 

[Proclone]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:55 AM, Straycat80 said:

I’m not a fan of scary/horror shows, I watched the first episode because of the hype this show was getting in the media and I got sucked in. I had never heard of this story (book) before. 

I thought the writing was good as well as the acting and all around cast. There were a couple episodes I thought were too draggy (funeral home) and some long winded dialogues I started getting bored with. 

I guess I’m in the minority that I liked the ending but I’m a sucker for happy endings. My only complaints ( and I’m nit picking here) was that I wished they would have swown some history on the ghosts. Did flapper lady kill her kids for real? Why was hat guy levatated? Was Olivia really mentally ill or did the house make her go crazy? I didn’t know Abby was real until she drank the poisoned tea, why was she always dressed in old timey clothes and who was the ghost lady who took her hand and walked away with her when she died? Her parents said they never came to the house after dark so how where they seeing dead infant ghost? How was Steve’s wife pregnant at the end ? 

I don’t know how there can be a season 2 of this but if there is I would watch it. 

I didn't mind the ending either.  Part of my dislike of horror movies, in general, is that they typically wind up as shaggy dog stories at best, and shoot the shaggy dog stories at worst.  I don't, by in large, hate tragic endings but endings in the horror genre are often nihilistic and cruel IMO, just for the sake of getting one last jump scare.  And quite frankly I don't want to get invested in the character(s) and their growth only to have it all snuffed out at the last moment, so the filmmakers can have a "shocking" ending.

I also would have liked a little more history on the ghosts, but I did like that by in large they seemed benign.  There's the Del Toro movie, Crimson Peak where the main character says something to the effect of "It's not a ghost story, it's a story with ghosts."  I feel like this is similar.  It's more a story of the Craine Family then it was about the ghosts.  The house seems to collect souls, but the souls themselves, save Poppy and the thing in the basement, don't seem to want to hurt anyone.  The tall man was just looking for his hat and most the others seem to be milling around.  I also assumed he was the William Hill that was found bricked up in the wall.  Poppy says something to the effect of him wanting to feel tall and now he is, so I assume he both looks stretched out and levitates for that reason.  I wouldn't be surprised if Poppy did kill her own children, as she was apparently mentally ill even prior to Hill House.  And I took the old woman who took Abigail's hand to be Hazel(?) the member of the Hill family that Mrs. Dudley took care of.  It made sense to me that woman who was taken care of by Clara would want to take care of her daughter, YMMV.

The Dudley also explained that the used to stay in the house at night, but after their first child was stillborn (she probably died when Clara was in the house but wasn't born until later) they heard the baby crying and decided to no longer go there at night.

I don't think Oliva was crazy, per say, prior to Hill House.  I think that like her daughters she was sensitive, but unlike her daughters was perhaps not grounded enough to realize what was going on.  The house worked on cutting her connection to Hugh who was always busy and that allowed her to fly away.  I also don't think it helped that Poppy seemed to take a particular interest in Oliva, because as I said Poppy seemed like one of the few truly malevolent spirits in the house.

As for Steve's wife being pregnant, either he reversed the vasectomy (doesn't always work, but not impossible) or they decided to use a sperm donor.  

I'm not really interested in a season two unless it's Theo the psychic child psychologist (because I would watch the heck out of that show) or prequel with other characters.  I think the Crain family story is over.

[Cheezwiz]

On 10/28/2018 at 6:47 PM, millennium said:

The ending was terrible.  When Steven corrupted the famous line with "whatever walked there, walked together" (UGH!), I thought the gathered ghosts would hold hands and sing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke."

Yes, EXACTLY! I hated that particular re-working of Shirley Jackson's famous line so much. The final episode was a big let-down for an otherwise entertaining series.

[millennium]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:10 PM, Lady Calypso said:

 I simply find it odd that the house would just leave the Crains alone for the rest of their lives. 

It was clearly stated the house regards the Crane family as "an unfinished meal."   So you are exactly right -- why would it leave them alone if in the end it "digested" only half the family?    The house was never presented as a thinking entity, but more of a blind, elemental force.   How or why would it make such distinctions?

3 hours ago, Proclone said:

I'm not really interested in a season two unless it's Theo the psychic child psychologist (because I would watch the heck out of that show)

So would I.   I loved Steven's offhand description of her:  "Theo's a clenched fist with hair."

[Couver]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread in more agreement than this one.

A fantastic series episodes 1-9 and then....this. I almost wish I hadn't binged it so that I could post in the other episode threads (which were all great) instead of just skipping to this one. 

The finale just erased everything that made the previous episodes great. It also did not support its own narrative. There is no way many of the ghosts in that house were as passive and 'nice' as the finale made it seem. Poppy basically revealed that the body behind the wall was the tall hat man. He walled himself up and then tried to claw his way out. That is gruesome and pretty sinister. Same with the story about Clara Dudley's still born baby. They presented it as the house having this evil intent. You can't switch that around at the last minute to it just wanting to keep families together. The finale couldn't pick a lane and stay in it. All the other ghosts were decayed and grey but Olivia, Nell, and Hugh were idealized, bathed in bright light and perfect. I would have been fine if the show made it explicit that there were good and bad ghosts in that house but it really didn't say so either way. Poppy seemed the baddest but then Olivia basically told her to step off and she was like "okay sorry byeee" after having just tried to kill all the adult children.

I would have much preferred the alternate ending. Yes it is an obvious horror trope and I was actually expecting that fake out that they never got out. But it would have fit with the tone of the whole series better. That the house was evil and that it did never let anyone escape. End it with another unsuspecting family moving in at the end.

My guess is as other have said that the Cranes are done storywise. I see this series being like AHS with a different take each season. I'm curious to see if they will use the same actors just in different roles. Oliver Jackson-Cohen really deserves to be on something long term. He is really very good and oh so pretty.

[iMonrey]

I liked the series overall but I did find the last episode to be a bit heavy on the psychobabble. Most of the pieces ended up fitting together okay but there were still a lot of unanswered questions. When the kids were still living in the house, it appears that the banging they were hearing was coming from their siblings in some weird alternate timelines. So who or what was banging on the doors and windows of the funeral home when Shirley and Theo were fighting it out? Was the supposed to be some kind of manifestation of their fight or inner turmoil?

I don't need everything spelled out for me, necessarily, but I felt like the series refused to commit to either the supernatural or the psychological. Maybe they felt it was more interesting if left open to interpretation. And sure, in some ways it could be. But when you give both possibilities equal weight it just feels like you're just hedging your bet.

[JenE4]

I got super caught up in this series, so I didn’t dislike this episode...until I read all of your posts and thought, you know, YOU ALL have a point that it left us with a lot more questions and things don’t really add up. So all that rattling of doorknobs of “ghosts trying to get in the room” was really just the Crain family trying to open the red room door at different points. Nell just haunted herself. Mr Hill was just looking for his hat. And Poppy was the only real “haunter” there—but it seemed like she was just trying to get Olivia riled up because she was bored. Apparently a hell of a lot of people died there, but most of the ghosts are just tinkering with clocks and laying around in their sick beds. And Olivia made it clear this episode that she hasn’t seen Hugh since that night, so, okay, he mostly imagined her. And I can sort of accept that they were haunted by their own fears in their minds and that’s why Shirley’s “ghost” wasn’t a ghost at all. But what about Olivia’s “scary figment” at the funeral home and in the car? The rest of the family wouldn’t have imagined her exactly as she was in that nightgown—same for Nell’s ghost. What about the buttons and the model home and the casket turning over? I can maybe accept an explanation that perhaps the spirits could go outside the house—like mediums always say spirits see you during big life moments or whatever, so maybe Nell would/could go to her funeral. But the way Olivia was terrified of the outside world and needed her kids in the house to see them I can’t imagine she’d leave the house. The only way I can make sense of it is the “confetti/snow” thing and perhaps she left the house to travel back to that event AFTER the series of events in this episode and Nell and Hugh brought her to the funeral. I’m just going to imagine we caught a glimpse of ghost Hugh at the funeral so it makes sense to me. Maybe that’s what his scene was when he kept traveling back in time between the funeral and the past in the house?!

ETA: If there’s another season, I hope it focuses on Poppy and Mr Hill! I loved Poppy’s character and would like to see more of her back story and the origins of the house.

Edited October 31, 2018 by JenE4

[millennium]

From the linked article above:

This after spending an evening trapped in the Red Room, which it turns out had originally manifested as various different rooms during the Crains’ childhood—a game room for Steven, a playhouse for Luke, etc. It placated the children while the house digested them.

I forgot to mention, this is an idea ripped wholly from the X-Files episode "Field Trip": Mulder and Scully become trapped inside a giant fungus which allows them to hallucinate that they have escaped its clutches and are continuing on with their lives even as the fungus' acids digest them.

Very little about this series was the product of original thought.

[Cardie]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:06 PM, Lamima said:

(where bent neck girl killed Nell's husband).

I don't believe Bent-Neck killed Nell's husband, especially because she is Bent-Neck Lady. He did die of an aneurysm at the same time the ghost of her future showed up but that was correlation, not causation.

[JBC344]

Just saw a theory online that I hadn't put together yet, but that Mr. Dudley is the illegitimate child of William Hill (Tall man with hat).  When he tells his story of being born on the property because his mother was a maid in the house and later in life he used to catch her in the woods laughing like a little school girl with a suitor.

Then we find out William was so troubled by his guilt and fear from his affairs he walled himself into the basement.

That might explain that when Abigail was poisoned we saw the shot of the woman who comes to take her hand and escort her away.  Was that Poppy coming to usher home her husband's grandchild or was it the "younger" version of William's sister (old lady who Claire worked for/ warned Olivia) taking her great-niece's hand?

[Mrs. DuRona]

On 10/31/2018 at 3:15 PM, millennium said:

Very little about this series was the product of original thought.

Right down to Theo's "Elsa from Frozen" gloves to keep her abilities at bay, and having her "let it go" moment at the end when she tosses them in the trash can...

[wrlord]

One thing that really bothered me was the bizarre slang used and reused by various: "it's been a minute"; "love me hard."   These are not phrases a middle class white family used in the 1980s (or today).  If one character used them, ok, it's a quirk, but to have multiple characters use the same unique expressions is just bad writing.

It's enough to rattle your ancestors, to quote several people in Rocky VI.

[txhorns79]

Quote

One thing that really bothered me was the bizarre slang used and reused by various: "it's been a minute"; "love me hard."   These are not phrases a middle class white family used in the 1980s (or today).  If one character used them, ok, it's a quirk, but to have multiple characters use the same unique expressions is just bad writing.

It's Been a Minute is currently the name of a podcast on NPR.  I think it's fair to say the phrase has now permeated all rungs of society in the US.  

Quote

I don't believe Bent-Neck killed Nell's husband, especially because she is Bent-Neck Lady. He did die of an aneurysm at the same time the ghost of her future showed up but that was correlation, not causation.

I agree.  Her appearance is a coincidence.  He would have died regardless of whether she was there. 
As to the Dudley's, while it was nice Ms. Dudley was fully reunited with her dead children, I think it would be hell to be trapped in ghostly world with a child who was eternally a newborn infant.   

Quote

My guess is as other have said that the Cranes are done storywise.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought I had read an article with the showrunners talking about the possibility of a second season, and they had said they consider the Crains' story to be complete.

[kieyra]

Quote

It's Been a Minute is currently the name of a podcast on NPR.  I think it's fair to say the phrase has now permeated all rungs of society in the US.  

That poster was referring to scenes set in the 1980s, and I agree, modern slang is always jarring. 

[DangerousMinds]

It may be the name of a podcast but no one I know has ever used that phrase.

[ForeverAlone]

I'm with those who liked this series up until the final episode. While there were some elements I liked, there were many I cringed. I am not a very sentimental person, and shy away from sentimental endings. So while I don't mind a happy ending in some form or fashion, the way this one played out, rather nauseated me in some ways. 

I don't feel that Stephen deserved his happy little ending with a happy family. His behavior toward Leigh was rather unforgivable in my opinion. He lied to her for years, and he probably didn't ever tell her the truth. I always assumed she found out that she wasn't getting pregnant, after the fertility doctor had tested his semen and realized he had a vasectomy. He just seemed too cowardly to ever own up to that truth, when he had every opportunity prior to that. She had every right to leave him, and I don't know why she took him back. We never even saw his pitch to her begging for her forgiveness. We are just supposed to assume it happened, and then what? He had a complete change of heart about children and had a vasectomy reversal? Yeah okay, whatever. 

I had no issue with Shirley and her husband reconciling, because she had one transgression years ago. Yes, she needs to grovel an apology for her hypocrisy, but I couldn't see her marriage ending over that one mistake. Considering he took the "blood money" from the book, I would say they are even when it comes to lies.

I thought Theo treated Trish liked garbage most of the series, and couldn't understand why Trish would want to be in a relationship with Theo. 

I am glad Luke stayed sober and got the closest he could to a happy ending. Considering the truth of what happened to him and what he witnessed, I completely understand why he became an addict. But that brings up a plot hole (for me anyway) that I don't feel was ever adequately addressed. Hugh separated himself from his family, because he wanted to hide the truth about their mother from them. But Nell and Luke were there that night. Even though they were young, they had to know that Abigail had died and their mother was responsible for it. And on some level they had to know that their mother was trying to kill them. And yet, we never saw the aftermath of it. Did they just never talk about it and attempted to repress it, or did they talk about it, and their family just blew them off and said they were imagining it (and Abigail)? Along those same lines, Nell really didn't have any memory of their mother by the time she was grown. So I don't see how she would be so happy to be stuck in a house as a ghost with a mother she doesn't remember, and that mother tried to kill her when she was a child. And sure, Olivia was crazy enough to try and kill her youngest kids with rat poison, but she was a beatific earth mother in death. Poppy was nutty in death, so you would think Olivia would be as well. I just didn't buy that after nine episodes of being told how this house is a dark and evil thing who wants to consume its inhabitants, that it is now a joyful and wonderful place to spend the afterlife. For me, it completely undermined the entire series that came before it.

[Dirtybubble]

I was having a little trouble wrapping my brain around the ending and the series in general.   Why did certain things happen the way they did and so on....

I found this video and the narrator really helps explain the little details of the show and especially the ending

https://youtu.be/2NIbnMx5cZU

[Ilovepie]

What the hell? That ending felt more like a Hallmark Christmas movie than a haunted Halloween ghost story! Very underwhelming ending.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I felt like the ending was "And in the end, it turns out that all the Crains were DOING IT TO THEMSELVES." As in, the home isn't evil, but the spirits of some of its inhabitants are.

And then I look back over the series for hints that was the case. The caretakers, for example. Were they neutral enough in their presentation of the home as only active, or actually unsafe?

The entire conversation Mr. Dudley had with Hugh...the home makes some people "scattered." Staying away at night makes the effect less so. The room of requirement Red Room.  Luke getting stuck in the elevator. That seemed bad. Was it controlled by the ghoul in the cellar?

And if the house wasn't evil, and that was actually Olivia being controlled by her own mental illness (which follows one into the afterlife, apparently), why did Hugh have to agree to stay in order for her to let the other kids go? Was the mean Olivia in the house the real Olivia and the one appearing to speak to him all the time his imagination? I know she said it was, but I liked the imaginary one better in that case. 

 

I can get behind a place that amplifies peoples abilities and fears, but I would have liked a couple of hints. 

 

and this...

On 11/2/2018 at 1:48 AM, wrlord said:

One thing that really bothered me was the bizarre slang used and reused by various: "it's been a minute"; "love me hard."   These are not phrases a middle class white family used in the 1980s (or today).  If one character used them, ok, it's a quirk, but to have multiple characters use the same unique expressions is just bad writing.

It's enough to rattle your ancestors, to quote several people in Rocky VI.

I definitely caught "it's been a minute" used by their presumably 80s/90s selves. That was not in the vernacular at that time. And yet Poppy used a lot of 20s slang. Elephants eyebrows? Inconsistency.

And why did we get the story about what Luke's name almost was. Did I miss that?

 

There was a lot I liked and I definitely cried. I'm not sure I would go back for a second viewing to see if there are any hints about the YOUR-OWN-FEAR-IS SCARING-YOU ending. 

[JenE4]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, Dirtybubble said:

I was having a little trouble wrapping my brain around the ending and the series in general.   Why did certain things happen the way they did and so on....

I found this video and the narrator really helps explain the little details of the show and especially the ending

https://youtu.be/2NIbnMx5cZU

Thank you for sharing! This video is very well done in “college English major literary analysis fashion.” I think amongst the group we all picked up on most of these details along the way, but having this summation really helps to pull together the details and dialogue you may have forgotten that builds to the conclusion. It seems that many of us were left with the impression that this ending was tacked on and didn’t fit with the rest of the series, but this video really pulls it together that it is a logical and satisfying conclusion.

[Zima]

I couldn't help but make snarky remarks to my husband during the entirety of this finale. "What, suddenly everyone's a god damn poet?" and, "The house was a villain the entire time, and now it's suddenly a fucking hero?"are two that I remember vividly.  I'm one of those people who LOVES unhappy endings, so the Hallmark ending of this episode left me very upset. Hell, it would have been better if they'd ditched this ep altogether and let the last one be ep 9 (The one from Olivia's POV). I did like the red room reveal, but that's all.  I'm really so sad, because I loved this series before this point, and I feel so letdown. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Zima

[Peanut6711]

I think for the majority of the episodes this was a good show—visually well done and riveting in terms of suspense and storytelling. Anyone who enjoys the thriller/suspense genre should give it a go.

That being said, for me the last two episodes didn’t deliver an ending on par with the rest of them. Those 2 were a little slower and lower on the wow factor. As well, there are a few items where suspension of disbelief continued to be problematic and affected the resolution.

The timelines for one.  These were mostly throwaway lines but I’ve been stuck on them. 8 weeks was all the longer they planned to be there so this all happened in less time than that. I can’t imagine tackling a renovation/restoration/flip of a house that size in just 2 months without a larger work crew and with 5 kids to look after. Heck, from a progress standpoint, all they appeared to have managed was rummaging through the items on the property to determine value. 8 weeks doesn’t sound like realistic goal at all, and this wasn’t Hugh and Olivia’s first flip so I can’t brush it off on naivety. 

Then Olivia’s decent into spirit induced madness in just 3 days according to their statement that they had a good marriage except for those last three day was also difficult for me to get on board with. I think it would have made more sense if they’d have been in the house 6-12 months. Then I could have more readily believed that all the setbacks with renovation were wearing on them and the ghosts were capitalizing on it.  I also found it interesting (read bothersome) that Olivia remained in that state of delusions and madness even after her death. Nell at least seemed to come to a level of awareness.

The casting of Young Hugh didn’t work for me so maybe that’s why I’ve also struggled with his character in the past. (I really liked Present Hugh). Like the kids, I too had issues with him leaving  Olivia behind “that night.” I understand his shock, fear, and concern when he found her trying to poison the twins, but I guess I’m stuck on the fact that Olivia didn't seem a hard person to subdue and it was poison; she wasn’t running wild wielding a gun after all. I believe he said they’d been together 20 years at that point and things had only gone bad in the last 3 days. His reaction wasn't exactly on par with a successful marriage/family gone wrong in only 3 days.

And then I have to wonder if he would have gotten her out with the kids if it would have saved them all. Well except for Abigail, which brings me to her. There’s a bit too much suspension of disbelief there too. Luke keeps talking about a little girl named Abigail to which no one believes him (well accept Nell I guess), but yet they know the Dudley’s have children who live right on the edge of the property and never think to question if it’s one of theirs!

Given that the was only a 10 episode stint, the plot holes are a bit of a sticking point. I expected better continuity and closure. 

I’m also still scratching my head over the death of Nell’s husband. Was Nell’s life that incredibly doomed regardless of the house or did the house have a hand in killing him? Since Nell sees the bent-neck lady at the time, did she unconsciously kill him?

On 10/17/2018 at 1:19 PM, rainsmom said:

First, I feel like what happened with dad and the police is a huge hole. He lost custody of his kids, but WHAT HAPPENED? Did he go to jail? If not, why did he lose custody?

This should have been made clear but wasn't so I think we're left w/speculation. I'm rather assuming he just left the kids with their aunt as a misguided way to "protect" them.

 

On 10/18/2018 at 2:51 AM, hiccup said:

Oh and I have another question that was probably answered and I can't remember. Why did the Dudley's stay as caretakers of the house after the Hills died? They had been there for years before the Cranes moved in, but did they ever answer why they were there? And why didn't they warn the Cranes before moving in? I assume that if they did warn them, Hugh wouldn't have believed it, but I still would have liked to know that the Dudleys at least tried to warn them. 

I think Mr. Dudley was trying to warn Hugh in the one scene down the basement after the mold appears when he tells their backstory.  Hugh didn't seem to take it seriously enough then so I'm guessing it would't have done any good if Mr. Dudley would have brought it up sooner. 

 

On 10/19/2018 at 10:41 AM, Megan said:

The more I think about it, the more Abigail's murder upsets me. She was this poor isolated trusting little girl who was fed rat poison the first time she was able to interact with people outside her parents. It's horrifying. Her death is brushed off and made more about how Olivia was suffering. 

Yes, her parents covered up for her murder because they wanted to protect the house in order to spend eternity with her. Though it seemed like it was perfectly fine/not that big of a deal that that eternity was with Abigail being dead and still in the Dudley's grasp. She even has to be around her murderers forever. She never got to experience anything of life.

Agree that Abigail's death is downplayed & seems simply because she's not a Crain.  I also didn't care for the implications that her life mattered less because...

a) her family was of a lower class/the servants/help???

b) she was a homeschooled child??? They really seemed to feed into the unsubstantiated myths & stereotypes of homeschooled children being isolated.

 

On 10/19/2018 at 5:24 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

This is why I think it was a mistake to introduce us to Poppy so clearly. WAS it Poppy's ghost that drove Olivia insane? Or was it Hill House? WAS Poppy's ghost the malevolent entity in Hill House, that lured everyone into the Red Room so they could be eaten? Was she the one "eating" them? Or was she just a victim of the house (a particularly easy one because of her insanity) who now works on its behalf? Why was she presented as a malevolent actor who could be negotiated with or stood up to, when the original idea was that the house is a presence in and of itself that makes you not SEE that you need to resist it? 

And I predicted from Episode 1 that the gender politics were going to be an issue. Why is it that STEPHEN, who treated his wife in an absolutely monstrous way (Imaginary Leigh was right on the money when she said he didn't see her. He robbed her of the ability to have children by lying for years while she ran out the clock on her own fertility. No one could do that to someone they truly loved and respected.) and does not deserve our sympathy as a POV character, gets let in on ALL the family secrets of Hill House, when he is arguably the one least affected by it? Don't the people who saw the most in Hill House, who have carried that trauma with them throughout their lives, deserve to get answers and closure about what happened to their mother and why that house is still standing? How dare Mike Flanagan take a story by Shirley Jackson (whose works typically feature women being controlled "for their own good," finding (often disturbing) ways of empowering themselves) and end it with two men deciding to keep secrets from the female protagonists in order to "protect" them. Appalling.

 

I think Poppy was introduced too late in the season and with too much emphasis placed on her ghost above all the other spirits. 

And agree, Stephen didn't deserve an HEA.  They sorely brushed over the atrocity he consciously inflicted on his wife. Putting her through years of "infertility" and believing something was wrong with her when it was in fact him is equivalent to gas-lighting and emotional abuse.  I had no sympathy for him. 

 

On 10/19/2018 at 6:22 PM, Kostgard said:

Then the fact that the Dudleys came to visit their ghost daughter through the years brings up another question - does that mean the Crains can just go visit their parents and sister whenever they want? If people can come into the house and interact with the ghosts, then why do people have to die in order to "stay in the house or stay together? Just live in the house until you die and then carrying on as ghosts. 

And wasn't the Dudley's missing another living child????  I could have sworn Mrs. Dudley tells Olivia she has 2 children around her kid's age. (I assumed that was not counting the stillborn).

 

On 10/21/2018 at 10:51 PM, Soobs said:

Thinking that you can uproot your five young children to stay in a giant, old house that would require a lot of specialists and conservators to fix and you can flip it in eight weeks or so is totally nuts. I was side eyeing the parents mental state from the first episode. The ghosts in the house were right. These people were living in a dream.

THIS! It drove me nuts through the whole series. 

 

On 10/23/2018 at 9:51 AM, Dobian said:

I guess it comes down to the ending you wanted.  Did you want a happy ending of redemption or a tragic ending of horror and loss.  There are pros and cons for each one.

It felt like viewers here given an amalgamation of both HEA, undeserved redemption, horror, and tragic loss, and not in a way that worked.

 

On 10/14/2018 at 2:42 PM, Nancy Drew said:

I actually liked the end. The house might be evil, but these people's biggest problems were always themselves. Clara was so scarred by a stillborn daughter that she entombed her living daughter on the edge of Hill House, which eventually led to the girl's death. Her paranoia intersected with Olivia's, but in the end it was Olivia's mental illness that set the stage for the last, horrible night. Olivia kept giving her daughters coffins-literally in Shirl's case, in the form of a glove box for Theo and a button box for Nell. In some ways it was easier to blame ghosts, but Abigail was REAL and no one could see it. Nell was haunting herself. 

But was Olivia really mentally ill in just 3 days? She seemed pretty normal until the writers didn't want her to be anymore.  I also have issues with an innocent 5 year old's fate being sealed by her own haunting as a child.  The house clearly was responsible.  There's nothing to indicate the twins had issues till they came there. 

[Peanut6711]

On 10/31/2018 at 7:00 PM, JBC344 said:

That might explain that when Abigail was poisoned we saw the shot of the woman who comes to take her hand and escort her away.  Was that Poppy coming to usher home her husband's grandchild or was it the "younger" version of William's sister (old lady who Claire worked for/ warned Olivia) taking her great-niece's hand?

I thought maybe ghost Abigail goes off with Mr. Dudley's mother, her grandmother. 

[JBC344]

6 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

I thought maybe ghost Abigail goes off with Mr. Dudley's mother, her grandmother. 

I thought that originally but I don't think his mother died in the house.  I imagine he or Claire would of seen her in the intervening years but possibly.