S03.E03 Katie Girls

[qtpye]

10 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

This is why I said they should have cut the scene. It makes no sense and the same thing could have been accomplished with a phone call. After the episode I told my daughter that the show was really starting to do too much. I don't mind the Kate storyline of her wanting a baby or Kevin's wanting to know more about Jack's time in Vietnam and I understand they have to do something with Jack that'll keep him on screen but this Randall crusade is kind of ridiculous. And off-putting if I'm honest. Why would I want to watch anything political on a show when I can't get away from it in my real life? I didn't sign up for this and I won't stick around to watch it possibly destroy his marriage. There are so many other avenues they could have pursued and I'm just not here for this one.

 

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The only thing I can think of is that ChiChi has brought Randall's identity issues to the surface.  To me, Randall has a huge issue with him being "black enough."  Randall is looking for the one, true black experience that he never experienced because he was raised by white people.  I am a white woman who was raised by my biological parents so I will never understand what it is like to be transracially adopted.  Randall really needs to find a better therapist that can help him work through these issues.  His overwhelming need to find this mythical African American existence will eventually hurt his family. 

I feel like the main reason for the attractive and horribly annoying character of ChiChi is so we can have flashbacks and wax poetic about St. William.

 

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The only thing I can think of is that ChiChi has brought Randall's identity issues to the surface.  To me, Randall has a huge issue with him being "black enough."  Randall is looking for the one, true black experience that he never experienced because he was raised by white people.  I am a white woman who was raised by my biological parents so I will never understand what it is like to be transracially adopted.  Randall really needs to find a better therapist that can help him work through these issues.  His overwhelming need to find this mythical African American existence will eventually hurt his family. 

You might have a good point but this is really a clumsy way of handling it. As a Woman of Color there is no one "black experience". If Randall went to Howard he should know this but I am not sure if he went there or transferred to a school closer to home at this point.

[PepSinger]

23 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

But, WHY?  What was the emergency that required his immediate presence in Philly at the bedside of a child he'd only met a couple of times?  Even if he'd been home in NJ, driving two hours to the hospital to see ChiChi and her daughter for 10 minutes to find out what happened and be made to feel guilty about it would make no sense. What did he accomplish by rushing back, ChiChi made it clear that she wasn't the least bit impressed by anything Randall did short of ending criminal activity in Philadelphia altogether.  It's not the first time she's laid into him for things that aren't his fault.  It's one thing to be in favor of the big gesture, in Randall's case, he's the master of the useless one.  I cannot even imagine what his last minute plane ticket to LA would've cost, let alone changing his return flight and maybe changing the destination from Newark to Philly.  Considering he hasn't had a job in a year, I would think he might want to be a little more careful with a dollar.

Then again, this show is constantly stretching credulity over even the simplest issues; so I guess this is just one more example.

For shits and giggles, I went to JetBlue and booked a flight from LAX to Philly one way for today. The ticket was just over $500. Depending on whatever level he is on whatever airline of choice he uses, maybe the fees to change the destination were waived. But still!! Regardless, if I were Beth, I would immediately tell him he'd have to nip that shit in the bud now considering they are both jobless.

[NutMeg]

Between the first season and now, this show has become increasingly more and more  snarkworthy. It's fun to watch for the snark, but it's like its DNA had been radically modified. It feels like the show runners don't understand the difference between emotions and sadness, and it's become such a pathos, with characters like Randal and Kate becoming unlikeable to the highest degree, rather than touching. 

[Soup333]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I feel like the main reason for the attractive and horribly annoying character of ChiChi is so we can have flashbacks and wax poetic about St. William.

You might have a good point but this is really a clumsy way of handling it. As a Woman of Color there is no one "black experience". If Randall went to Howard he should know this but I am not sure if he went there or transferred to a school closer to home at this point.

I thought he met Beth at Howard???

[Katy M]

36 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Multiples are risky for anyone, but they are far riskier for Kate due to her age and weight.  Her chances of getting 3 healthy babies are a lot lower than average.

Well, obviously she would get two healthy babies and a dead one and then a replacement would come from somewhere.

[qtpye]

17 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I thought he met Beth at Howard???

I think he met Beth at college but they have not specified where...I could be wrong.

[MsChicklet]

When Randall was badgering Kate about adoption, I was thinking, even if they spent the IVF money on trying to adopt, it probably wouldn't happen. Parental health can be used against prospective parents, and even if agencies didn't think Kate's weight is an issue, Toby has the double whammy of mental illness and heart disease.  When my sister and BIL were considering adoption, they were advised it would be very difficult because BIL had suffered a heart attack at age 47.  Then my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer and any thoughts of adopting went out the window (she's fine now, 10-plus years survivor).

 

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

I think he met Beth at college but they have not specified where...I could be wrong.

 

I don't remember them specifying either, but may have missed it. Randall and Beth didn't have to go to the same college. Maybe Randall stayed home to go to school, but visited his friends at Howard, where he met Beth. Then got help from Kevin.

[mcgkgm]

38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, obviously she would get two healthy babies and a dead one and then a replacement would come from somewhere.

She's already lost a baby.  I don't really think they'd go there again.  It does seem possible she could end up with twins (either they transfer two embryos and both of them take, or they gamble with only one really healthy one, and it splits) though.

[seacliffsal]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:36 PM, tennisgurl said:

 

 

50s era Rebecca was cute, and I do kind of like seeing her and Jack early on. However, I could do without seeing Saint William for awhile. What was his point this week?!? We just had a whole flashback with him! I've seen him more than some characters on this show that are still alive!

The problem with 50s era Rebecca is that as they are portraying her in the show she would have attended high school in the late 1960s/early 1970s.  AND, we did NOT dress like that during that era.  That was the era of the hippies and even those of us who were definitely NOT hippies wore clothes that represented the era.  They portrayed her as attending high school in the 1950s.  Sometimes it would behoove writers' rooms to actually have someone there from the era they're trying to portray.  Okay, rant over (for now...).

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

Between the first season and now, this show has become increasingly more and more  snarkworthy. It's fun to watch for the snark, but it's like its DNA had been radically modified. It feels like the show runners don't understand the difference between emotions and sadness, and it's become such a pathos, with characters like Randal and Kate becoming unlikeable to the highest degree, rather than touching. 

That is a really good way of putting it, a radical change in the DNA of the show.  I'm barely interested anymore, let alone entertained.  They just try way too hard to pull at the heartstrings, and while I was sort of looking forward to the Vietnam part of Jack's story, I am afraid they will be heavy-handed with it. 

[Emily Thrace]

On 09/10/2018 at 9:47 PM, Dreamboat Annie said:

At first tonight, I thought Beth's cousin could be a full on sociopath.  She wasn't interested in anything until it was something that could possibly benefit her.  Then, she did seem interested in helping Kevin to understand his Dad's time in Vietnam, appearing supportive and even suggesting he contact the men in the pictures.  But.. alas, I think she sees an opportunity for herself to produce a documentary.  Beth does love Kevin and did warn him about her. 

I don't think she sociopathic, I just think she (like a lot of indie film types) takes dim view on Hollywood glam.  She doesn't want to get sucked in to being Kevin Pearson's Girlfriend and not being her own person. (Its a nice parallel to Rebecca actually) Which is really easy to do when dating a movie star. I think she likes Kevin a lot but doesn't like what he does that much. Its an interesting conflict for them going forward. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

Between the first season and now, this show has become increasingly more and more  snarkworthy. It's fun to watch for the snark, but it's like its DNA had been radically modified. It feels like the show runners don't understand the difference between emotions and sadness, and it's become such a pathos, with characters like Randal and Kate becoming unlikeable to the highest degree, rather than touching. 

I wonder if this is the fault of the writers of the fault of the network.  In my experience, networks tend to look at what fans are saying on Facebook or Twitter and ignore message boards like this.  If the fans on Facebook really love something like the twist in the first episode or William, then the network begins to pressure the showrunners to change.  This show has become too big and then the quality suffers.  Network executives are such idiots sometimes. 

[topanga]

9 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I don't think she sociopathic, I just think she (like a lot of indie film types) takes dim view on Hollywood glam.  She doesn't want to get sucked in to being Kevin Pearson's Girlfriend and not being her own person. (Its a nice parallel to Rebecca actually) Which is really easy to do when dating a movie star. I think she likes Kevin a lot but doesn't like what he does that much. Its an interesting conflict for them going forward. 

Or maybe she likes having sex with cute guys and avoids getting into serious relationships, maybe because of her childhood? But Kevin is also the same way. The only serious relationship we’ve seen him in is when he reconciled with his ex-wife. 

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wonder if this is the fault of the writers of the fault of the network.  In my experience, networks tend to look at what fans are saying on Facebook or Twitter and ignore message boards like this.  If the fans on Facebook really love something like the twist in the first episode or William, then the network begins to pressure the showrunners to change.  This show has become too big and then the quality suffers.  Network executives are such idiots sometimes. 

Agreed. Although I’m still loving the show, flaws and all. 

[BoogieBurns]

On 10/9/2018 at 9:04 PM, CleoCaesar said:

And fucking enough with William already. No one cares.

I absolutely care.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

I feel like the main reason for the attractive and horribly annoying character of ChiChi is so we can have flashbacks and wax poetic about St. William.

 

You might have a good point but this is really a clumsy way of handling it. As a Woman of Color there is no one "black experience". If Randall went to Howard he should know this but I am not sure if he went there or transferred to a school closer to home at this point.

There may be no "one black experience," but sometimes people feel they're "shamed" for not being "black enough" or whatever ethnic group enough.  I'm not an adoptee but a child of immigrants from Hong Kong, yet throughout my life, I've felt that I'm being judged - even by people who were born/raised here because of my preferences or how I choose to honour my culture.  Cooking is a prime example.  What I often make can be seen as a bastardization of traditional dishes or snacks (e.g. I tried to make mooncakes this year for the Mid-Autumn Festival.  It was by NO MEANS "traditional" since it involved a modified pancake recipe and cheddar cheese.  I was also made to feel guilty because I was not as obsessed with Crazy Rich Asians as I'm apparently SUPPOSED to be!  So even if Randall DID go to Howard, he could have been made to feel out-of-place or just couldn't relate to the other students.  

[Dejana]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

The problem with 50s era Rebecca is that as they are portraying her in the show she would have attended high school in the late 1960s/early 1970s.  AND, we did NOT dress like that during that era.  That was the era of thxde hippies and even those of us who were definitely NOT hippies wore clothes that represented the era.  They portrayed her as attending high school in the 1950s.  Sometimes it would behoove writers' rooms to actually have someone there from the era they're trying to portray.  Okay, rant over (for now...).

If we go with Rebecca being born in 1950 (I think she mentioned she would be 30 soon, when she got pregnant), she could have graduated from high school in 1968, approximately. So if the wood shop scene was supposed to be in, say, 1965, that was still a time where fairly rigid dress codes at public schools were pretty widespread and prior to the hippie movement being mainstream.

[ShortyMac]

I just want to add: Jack doing the dishes is showing respect/love. Out of the twenty-three years I lived at home, My dad did them maybe two or three times. No matter how hard or what hours my mom worked, he never cleaned or offered to make her coffee or cook. I just realized that the other day. He's been babied and coddled by my mom and his mom (still living) for his whole life, cooking, laundry, etc. He is a very selfish and self-centered person, and like Randall, puts his friends' and others' needs before his family. I wish my mom loved herself enough to leave him instead of being his maid.

Edited October 12, 2018 by ShortyMac

[Emily Thrace]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:26 AM, Katy M said:

And they better not implant 4 or 5 to make Kate an octomom. I thought I had read that it was now illegal to implant more than two, but I think that may have been in Canada.  But, seriously, a multi-birth would just really up the health risks to Kate.

Especially considering since her mother conceived natural fraternal triplets. That usually mean there is some kind of genetic pre-disposition to having multiples anyway. 

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

I just want to add: Jack doing the dishes is showing respect/love. Out of the twenty-three years I lived at home, My dad did them maybe two or three times. No matter how hard or what hours my mom worked, he never cleaned or offered to make her coffee or cook. I just realized that the other day. He's been babied and codded by my mom and his mom (still living) for his whole life, cooking, laundry, etc. He is a very selfish and self-centered person, and like Randall, puts his friends' and others' needs before his family. I wish my mom loved herself enough to leave him instead of being his maid.

My dad always said all that stuff was woman's work, so beyond occasionally drying the dishes he didn't do any housework.  But, it kind of backfired on him, because he only had two girls, so we wouldn't do any of the men's work.  What's good for the goose and all that.  BTW, I firmly decided that shoveling snow was men's work. Probably only did it about 5 times when I was growing up and that was to help my mom out because my dad wasn't home.  I'm such a lazy bum.

[QQQQ]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Just because Kate is overweight and Toby is on anti-depressants doesn't mean they won't be good parents who live long lives.

If these were perfect predictors of life expectancy, between Seasonal Affective Disorder and the cheese, my home state of Wisconsin would have a population of 7.

[pianogirl73]

4 hours ago, Soup333 said:

This is why I said they should have cut the scene. It makes no sense and the same thing could have been accomplished with a phone call. After the episode I told my daughter that the show was really starting to do too much. I don't mind the Kate storyline of her wanting a baby or Kevin's wanting to know more about Jack's time in Vietnam and I understand they have to do something with Jack that'll keep him on screen but this Randall crusade is kind of ridiculous. And off-putting if I'm honest. Why would I want to watch anything political on a show when I can't get away from it in my real life? I didn't sign up for this and I won't stick around to watch it possibly destroy his marriage. There are so many other avenues they could have pursued and I'm just not here for this one.

I agree that there was to much going on in the episode. I think that the reason they made such a big deal about him hopping on the first plane is that they wanted us to think he was finally putting Beth first and to show how out of touch he is with Beth. He went on and on about himself when he got home and didn't even notice that she was out of sorts. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

Especially considering since her mother conceived natural fraternal triplets. That usually mean there is some kind of genetic pre-disposition to having multiples anyway. 

Wait, do we know that Kyle was a fraternal triplet and not Kevin's identical twin?  And with IVF, you get what you get - if the embryo(s) implant(s) - unless there they split.  So if they transfer one embryo in and it implants, Kate will either have a singleton baby or identical multiples. 

[Ohmo]

Normally, I'm not a big fan of William, but I liked him in this episode because of what he said about Beth.  I felt badly for her, and I agree with those who would want to read the texts exchanged between The Other Three.

The three Kates were great, but I wanted more of them.  Maybe it's just me, but I wish Teen Kate would have pushed Adult Kate a bit more.   I really like the actress who plays Teen Kate, and I think that if Kate were ever assertive, it was during het teen years.  At least that's the way the actress's portrayal of Teen Kate has always come across to me, and I like that.  Adult Kate was shown as sort of giving "words of wisdom" to Young Kate and Teen Kate, but I think Teen Kate should have been talking to Adult Kate.  Adult Kate is always more of a mess than she isn't.

[doodlebug]

30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Wait, do we know that Kyle was a fraternal triplet and not Kevin's identical twin?  And with IVF, you get what you get - if the embryo(s) implant(s) - unless there they split.  So if they transfer one embryo in and it implants, Kate will either have a singleton baby or identical multiples. 

We don’t know if Kevin and Kyle were identical, but monozygotic twins (fancy term for identical) don’t run in families anyway, they’re mostly a random event.  However, we obviously know that Rebecca had dizygotic multiples at the very least since Kevin and Kate are fraternal(duh!)

The rate of natural fraternal twinning (no fertility drugs) is about 1% in Caucasians.  However, the genetic tendency for having dizygotic twins is multifactorial, meaning it is not a straightforward inheritance. Obviously, it is passed from mother to daughter and the rate of twinning in the daughters of moms with twins is 5%. So, it’s 5 times more common than in non-twin families, but still not very common.

I know everyone would be shocked to know that I was a genetics major prior to becoming an OB/GYN.  The rate of natural (no drugs) triplets is about 1:10000 births.  I’ve only seen one set . 3 girls; a set of identical twins with a fraternal sister. I did have a GYN patient who had a single baby with her first pregnancy, natural twins with her second and natural triplets with her third.  She then got her tubes tied.

[PRgal]

3 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

We don’t know if Kevin and Kyle were identical, but monozygotic twins (fancy term for identical) don’t run in families anyway, they’re mostly a random event.  However, we obviously know that Rebecca had dizygotic multiples at the very least since Kevin and Kate are fraternal(duh!)

The rate of natural fraternal twinning (no fertility drugs) is about 1% in Caucasians.  However, the genetic tendency for having dizygotic twins is multifactorial, meaning it is not a straightforward inheritance. Obviously, it is passed from mother to daughter and the rate of twinning in the daughters of moms with twins is 5%. So, it’s 5 times more common than in non-twin families, but still not very common.

I know everyone would be shocked to know that I was a genetics major prior to becoming an OB/GYN.  The rate of natural (no drugs) triplets is about 1:10000 births.  I’ve only seen one set . 3 girls; a set of identical twins with a fraternal sister.

Kate's pregnancy is, provided that it was from IVF, assisted, though.  So we're not talking about spontaneous twinning/tripleting here.  

[Dreamboat Annie]

3 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I don't think she sociopathic, I just think she (like a lot of indie film types) takes dim view on Hollywood glam.  She doesn't want to get sucked in to being Kevin Pearson's Girlfriend and not being her own person. (Its a nice parallel to Rebecca actually) Which is really easy to do when dating a movie star. I think she likes Kevin a lot but doesn't like what he does that much. Its an interesting conflict for them going forward.

That could very well be.  However, my point was that she wasn't on board for anything related to this monumental event in Kevin's life until something came up that was of interest to her and could possibly benefit her.  She even seemed to brush it off when he talked about it - not even looking at him.  She is dating Kevin, seemed uninterested, and was refusing to be there for him for any of it*.  After saying no to everything, she also said no when invited to accompany him to his radio interview - until learning exactly whose radio show it was, then suddenly she was all in, which made me think that she cares only for herself (self interest without concern for others - a sociopathic characteristic).  I think it is possible to be supportive of someone else without losing yourself.  She certainly does not strike me as the type that would allow herself to "get sucked in" to being anyone's Girlfriend and not being her own person.  If she really doesn't like what he does to the point that she feels unable to be slightly supportive, she can get out at any time.  As much as Rebecca wanted to be her own person, I don't believe she would have completely snubbed events in Jack's life that were of great importance to him. 

Beth warned Kevin about her and that's just my take on it.

*  Yes - I know she was "busy" and "couldn't make it", but she sure freed herself up quickly when there was something of interest to herself.

[Pallas]

7 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Who on Earth boards a cross country flight for people that they barely know within hours of taking another flight??

Someone who's spent his life trying to prove himself to every group he met. And now, to make two fathers proud of him, as he noted. Everything he does for the tenants and the neighborhood, he does for William. And in a way, to prove himself better than William. 

Randall's feelings for WIlliam are out-of-time intense, and only now passing from childhood into adolescence. To have an ongoing relationship with a birthparent first met in adulthood is, often, to pass again through stages of devotion and disillusionment and reattachment -- sped way up, and no clearer for it. Most everything Randall's done since William died can be read as much as a rebuke to his father -- both fathers -- as a tribute. Just like a lot of young people setting out in life. Just like young Rebecca, and young Jack. 

[Arcadiasw]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wonder if this is the fault of the writers of the fault of the network.  In my experience, networks tend to look at what fans are saying on Facebook or Twitter and ignore message boards like this.  If the fans on Facebook really love something like the twist in the first episode or William, then the network begins to pressure the showrunners to change.  This show has become too big and then the quality suffers.  Network executives are such idiots sometimes. 

Most of the times it's the network executives' interference that cause a show that's great in it's first season to be horrible in it's second and lead to an eventual cancellation when the show could've lasted for years. 

[Rockstar99435]

I don't think ChiChi was being bitchy or overly-demanding to Randall. I think she's annoyed with him and isn't hiding that fact. We've seen the entire story from Randall's POV, but from her point of view, Randal bought her building on a whim, started construction/repair by himself (with no understanding of how to do that in a large, old building) leading to him opening up a giant hole and releasing massive amounts of cockroaches and rodents, causing everyone to have to move to a hotel until his wife (who actually has experience) fixes the problem. Then he comes to her community center, but instead of walking around and meeting the actual community, he goes room by room, looking for flaws, tells the people who live there all the things he thinks is wrong with their community, doesn't listen to what they have to say, leaves to find a councilman, has one conversation, and thinks he's made a difference. When the community members point out that one conversation in a barbarshop isn't going to change anything, he changes ONE lightbulb. Then her daughter gets mugged, because none of the other lightbulbs were fixed, and as she's dealing with the fear that comes when your child is in the hospital, Randall shows up and wants her to comfort him. Of course she has no more mental or emotional energy for this guy. He's just like every other politician who wants her very complicated problems to have a very simple solution.

I really hope that the storyline is going to lead to Beth running for office and not Randall. He would be terrible at it, but she would be great.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, Dejana said:

If we go with Rebecca being born in 1950 (I think she mentioned she would be 30 soon, when she got pregnant), she could have graduated from high school in 1968, approximately. So if the wood shop scene was supposed to be in, say, 1965, that was still a time where fairly rigid dress codes at public schools were pretty widespread and prior to the hippie movement being mainstream.

Also we have seen that Rebecca came from an upper middle class family which could have been conservative.   Not every young person was a hippie.   I saw a picture today of the Nixon girls at the World Series in 1969, and they were dressed very conservatively to the point that without the caption I would have thought that the picture was taken a few years earlier.   

[Arcadiasw]

40 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

When the community members point out that one conversation in a barbarshop isn't going to change anything, he changes ONE lightbulb. Then her daughter gets mugged, because none of the other lightbulbs were fixed, and as she's dealing with the fear that comes when your child is in the hospital, Randall shows up and wants her to comfort him. Of course she has no more mental or emotional energy for this guy. He's just like every other politician who wants her very complicated problems to have a very simple solution.

I really hope that the storyline is going to lead to Beth running for office and not Randall. He would be terrible at it, but she would be great.

It wasn't the lack of light. Her daughter's cell phone is the reason she was robbed. ChiChi said she warned her daughter to not walk the streets alone, to give up her stuff if she's being robbed but her daughter loves that phone and her arm was broken. Randall showing up made himself the perfect person for ChiChi  to vent her frustration on. 

[Jax7917]

Is Randall supposed to be a likable character ? He's extremely annoying . 

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Kate's pregnancy is, provided that it was from IVF, assisted, though.  So we're not talking about spontaneous twinning/tripleting here.  

Of course not, that's why I referenced her mother who did experience natural multiples.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Rockstar99435 said:

I don't think ChiChi was being bitchy or overly-demanding to Randall. I think she's annoyed with him and isn't hiding that fact. We've seen the entire story from Randall's POV, but from her point of view, Randal bought her building on a whim, started construction/repair by himself (with no understanding of how to do that in a large, old building) leading to him opening up a giant hole and releasing massive amounts of cockroaches and rodents, causing everyone to have to move to a hotel until his wife (who actually has experience) fixes the problem. Then he comes to her community center, but instead of walking around and meeting the actual community, he goes room by room, looking for flaws, tells the people who live there all the things he thinks is wrong with their community, doesn't listen to what they have to say, leaves to find a councilman, has one conversation, and thinks he's made a difference. When the community members point out that one conversation in a barbarshop isn't going to change anything, he changes ONE lightbulb. Then her daughter gets mugged, because none of the other lightbulbs were fixed, and as she's dealing with the fear that comes when your child is in the hospital, Randall shows up and wants her to comfort him. Of course she has no more mental or emotional energy for this guy. He's just like every other politician who wants her very complicated problems to have a very simple solution.

If Chi Chi had called him out on that, I would have cheered her on. But instead, she basically called Randall out for underachieving - as though he somehow owes this community center even more of his time and effort. What has she ever done about the light bulbs?

If her problem is that she doesn't have the mental or emotional energy to handle Randall, then she handled things exactly the wrong way, because she basically asked him to get more involved in the lives of her and her community.

Speaking of Randall, I've seen a lot of comments about Randall and Beth's finances. In season one, Randall was a partner in a major Wall Street firm. He left that job, but there's nothing to indicate he lost his share of the company. (And if they bought out his share, he should be rolling in dough.)

It makes sense for them to have the finances to live the way they do - which is more than I can say for Toby and Kate. It's still a terrible idea for Randall to move his family to Philadelphia to try to become a carpetbagging politician, but it's not because he needs a "real" job to support himself.

[Guest]

I think Chichi has both episodes called out Randall’s savior complex in a way- rightly so. First episode, she pointed out he was so focused on “fixing” things he didn’t stay to talk to anyone. Second time, she pointed out that despite his grand talks and speeches, what was he really getting done?

Team ChiChi.

[Quickbeam]

5 hours ago, QQQQ said:

If these were perfect predictors of life expectancy, between Seasonal Affective Disorder and the cheese, my home state of Wisconsin would have a population of 7.

Waves, still alive here! I do love this show warts and all. I really want more Beth. Backstory, dreams, aspirations. The actress is fine but she doesn’t get enough to do. To me, she’s more important than Randall. I did love her bits about “Miguel said....”. 

[methodwriter85]

12 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

OMG! Bahahaha! He so IS!!! He just needs to find some more excuses to unbutton his shirt or leave it off to be Ultra-Pa-esque.

Oh my god, does this mean that Deja is going to fall in love with a boy who's getting abused by a mime? And also getting an addiction to morphine before dying of some unnamed disease?

[Ohmo]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:20 AM, thesupremediva1 said:

Anyone else feel like the last two eps have slowly been dropping hints that Beth is having an affair?

If anything, I'd think hints were being dropped the other way---that Randall and Chi Chi (or whatever her name is) are going to have if not an affair, then a one-night stand.

[MsChicklet]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Not every young person was a hippie.  

MrChicklet's late cousin graduated from high school in the mid-60s and went through college with a brush cut and Buddy Holly glasses.

[methodwriter85]

47 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

MrChicklet's late cousin graduated from high school in the mid-60s and went through college with a brush cut and Buddy Holly glasses.

I have browsed yearbooks from 1968-1969 and one thing that struck me is how conservative a lot of the students still looked. Long straight hair isn't really a thing until you start hitting the 1972 yearbooks.

Edited October 12, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Ohmo]

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So who gets to decide which people are allowed to have kids? I'm not ready to live in a nanny state where the government or some other agency gets to dictate if I'm good enough to have kids. Who else isn't eligible besides fat people? People who smoke? People who have bad driving records? People who have criminal records? And then who's left to have kids? The rich people who have the resources to eat well, stay healthy, and provide trust funds for their children in case both parents die before the age of 50 (but still have easy enough jobs to be present when their kids get home from school so that the children aren't left unsupervised)? Just because Kate is overweight and Toby is on anti-depressants doesn't mean they won't be good parents who live long lives.

But, on the flip side, why is the assumption always that we're talking about a nanny state and a governmental dictate?  I think it would have been interesting to show that some people individually choose not to have children and have put as much thought into it as those who choose to have them.  It would have been interesting for Kate and Toby to have considered IVF but decided against it because of the risk.  I have three siblings.  Only one of us has a child, and those decisions have come about as a result of both circumstance and choice.  In the case of circumstance, the result of not having children probably ended up being more positive than if children had been born in that circumstance (and I'm not referring to what I've previously mentioned about myself).

My point is there are a ton of IVF stories on TV, and the assumption usually is, "Well, IVF is available!  Therefore, why wouldn't you want to take shots and potentially risk your life" (if you were Kate)?  I kind of would have liked to see Kate say "You know, biological kids aren't in my future, and I'm OK with that.  I have a significant weight issue, and I don't want to take the risk...whether IVF exists or not."

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ohmo
I forgot how to count. My parents have four children. Therefore, I have three siblings, not four.

[Emily Thrace]

7 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

That could very well be.  However, my point was that she wasn't on board for anything related to this monumental event in Kevin's life until something came up that was of interest to her and could possibly benefit her.  She even seemed to brush it off when he talked about it - not even looking at him.  She is dating Kevin, seemed uninterested, and was refusing to be there for him for any of it*.  After saying no to everything, she also said no when invited to accompany him to his radio interview - until learning exactly whose radio show it was, then suddenly she was all in, which made me think that she cares only for herself (self interest without concern for others - a sociopathic characteristic).  I think it is possible to be supportive of someone else without losing yourself.  She certainly does not strike me as the type that would allow herself to "get sucked in" to being anyone's Girlfriend and not being her own person.  If she really doesn't like what he does to the point that she feels unable to be slightly supportive, she can get out at any time.  As much as Rebecca wanted to be her own person, I don't believe she would have completely snubbed events in Jack's life that were of great importance to him. 

Beth warned Kevin about her and that's just my take on it.

*  Yes - I know she was "busy" and "couldn't make it", but she sure freed herself up quickly when there was something of interest to herself.

There is a difference between being sociopathic and simply self involved. I don't see any sociopathic tendencies in Zoe she is a very emotional person. Not every selfish person is a sociopath. Also we have seen Zoe care about something important to Kevin when she insisted on showing up for his birthday. I do think she is somewhat selfish but so is Kevin.

[Dminches]

Can someone explain how Beth was at this job for 12 years?  Didn't she start when Randall quit his job?

[Ohmo]

24 minutes ago, Dminches said:

Can someone explain how Beth was at this job for 12 years?  Didn't she start when Randall quit his job?

The writing has never been explicit on this, but I've always assumed that Beth had the job, took some time off/worked part-time when the girls were younger, and then returned to full-time status recently (until the point when she was fired).

[Soup333]

9 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

The writing has never been explicit on this, but I've always assumed that Beth had the job, took some time off/worked part-time when the girls were younger, and then returned to full-time status recently (until the point when she was fired).

If this is the case maybe this is why she was "less valuable" to them. If the other people her boss considered were there full-time over the years? Also, she has young children (who get sick every now and then), a new foster child (with issues) and her husband who recently had a second mental breakdown, which I'm sure she took time off for. Did she possibly have to leave work when Kevin was driving drunk with one of her girls in the car? She could have been up against some people who didn't have that much going on in their lives and had been solid, consistently full-time performers. 

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

If this is the case maybe this is why she was "less valuable" to them. If the other people her boss considered were there full-time over the years? Also, she has young children (who get sick every now and then), a new foster child (with issues) and her husband who recently had a second mental breakdown, which I'm sure she took time off for. Did she possibly have to leave work when Kevin was driving drunk with one of her girls in the car? She could have been up against some people who didn't have that much going on in their lives and had been solid, consistently full-time performers. 

I have a feeling that's where they're going with this. There will be a wrongful termination lawsuit.  Heaven forbid an employer be allowed to keep the most productive employees when layoffs are needed.

[MamaMax]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:32 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Only Randall is allowed to be obsessed with his DNA and biological parents, but god forbid Kate want to pass on her father's DNA to her own children. 

Kate isn’t obligated to adopt just because she hasn’t had success conceiving. And well done for her pointing out that his hypocritical ass had two biological children. “That’s a completely different situation!” Ugh shut up.

I also am an adopted child, and Randall's reactions, hurt feelings, and attitude toward Kate's fertility stuff seems pretty understandable to me.

Kate wasn't' just saying, Hey I want to try all fertility stuff first, she was willing to risk her LIFE to have a bio kid.  (And yes I know all pregnancies can go wrong, but I'm saying like, in a way that Kate's risk can be predicted ahead of time. It's like Shelby's in Steel Magnolias). So to an adopted kid, it feels like an insult: Yeah - rather die than adopt.  Adoption only good if ALL ELSE FAILS = LAST RESORT = not really what I wanted but I'll settle.... etc etc.

 

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:13 PM, Neurochick said:

For me, the problem with this show is, once we found out Jack was dead and found out how he died, I felt like Jack's story was over.  I don't get why we have to keep seeing him.

Dead people loom pretty largely in a lot of peoples lives.

 

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:08 PM, hookedontv said:

While I’ve always loved Kevin, I’m finding it harder and harder to like Kate or Randall, even though I want to like them! They are very selfish in different ways IMO. Kate is outright selfish, meaning it’s all about her-her weight, her grief, her angst. It’s as if no one else has it as bad or hard as she has had. Grief isn’t a contest, there’s no trophy for the person who grieves the most. 

Randall is selfish in the way he’s always giving. He first comes across as being very generous with his time and money, but then you realize it all turns back to him. He just can’t listen to Deja and be supportive. He always turnsnit around to how he’s been through XYZ too. He’s wrapped up in the rec center-when he got the call in LA and said I’ll be in the next plane, I assumed Beth called him about her job. Seems like he puts others before his own immediate family. End rant. 

Its been my take that Randall just feels guilty about his life's advantages, especially after meeting William and seeing what his life might have been.  It's like he needs to apologize to Deja, and ChiChi and everyone for having advantages,  It seems pretty realistic to me.

 

In real life, most people are not terribly well adjusted, so I'm not bothered by the  shortcomings of our Big Three, especially in light of the personal tragedies they have suffered.

Edited October 12, 2018 by MamaMax

[doodlebug]

19 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

I don't think ChiChi was being bitchy or overly-demanding to Randall. I think she's annoyed with him and isn't hiding that fact. We've seen the entire story from Randall's POV, but from her point of view, Randal bought her building on a whim, started construction/repair by himself (with no understanding of how to do that in a large, old building) leading to him opening up a giant hole and releasing massive amounts of cockroaches and rodents, causing everyone to have to move to a hotel until his wife (who actually has experience) fixes the problem. Then he comes to her community center, but instead of walking around and meeting the actual community, he goes room by room, looking for flaws, tells the people who live there all the things he thinks is wrong with their community, doesn't listen to what they have to say, leaves to find a councilman, has one conversation, and thinks he's made a difference. When the community members point out that one conversation in a barbarshop isn't going to change anything, he changes ONE lightbulb. Then her daughter gets mugged, because none of the other lightbulbs were fixed, and as she's dealing with the fear that comes when your child is in the hospital, Randall shows up and wants her to comfort him. Of course she has no more mental or emotional energy for this guy. He's just like every other politician who wants her very complicated problems to have a very simple solution.

I really hope that the storyline is going to lead to Beth running for office and not Randall. He would be terrible at it, but she would be great.

I think she is being inappropriately demanding of Randall.  It's none of her business why he bought the building; he doesn't have to answer to her for his choices.  If she doesn't feel he is a good landlord or doesn't like the way he is managing the building; then she can move. I'm sure she could shame him into letting her out of her lease and probably get her deposit back, to boot. Yes, there was a pest problem when he started renovating, but those pests were already there and clearly the prior landlord and current tenants hadn't done anything about it.  His renovations didn't bring them to the building, but they did demonstrate the severity of the problem which was promptly addressed.  Moving to a hotel at the landlord's expense while he get rid of pests which carry disease and undermine the structure of the building was the best solution to the problem.  

As far as the community center, he was hardly going room to room 'inspecting'.  He came up to her and tried to strike up a conversation by asking why there was a mattress leaning against a wall.  A reasonable question, I think most people would wonder.  She proceeded to give him short, snippy answers which ended in telling him about the building's structural problems.  She was more interested in her book than speaking to him and she made that very clear.  He started out trying to make conversation, she shot him down and, in the meantime, pointed out some very real issues that needed addressing.  It was pretty obvious that she hadn't done much about the problems, he doesn't even live in the neighborhood and he's already done more than she has in years of living there.  She chastised him for not speaking to the tenants and finding out about them, but he tried to strike up a convo with her and she shot him right down.

Maybe he only changed ONE lightbulb, but it was a helluvalot better than doing NOTHING which was apparently her method of dealing.

That reminds me of the starfish story:  A man is walking on a beach after a storm notices hundreds of starfish have washed ashore.  There is a kid tossing them into the ocean one by one.  The man approaches and asks why he is bothering, he can never toss them all back into the water, so why does it matter?  The kid replies, 'It matters to this one.'  Randall is doing what he can within his means and just because he cannot solve every problem ChiChi has, doesn't mean she gets to criticize him for trying.  Her biggest problem is her condescending attitude, IMO.

[Neurochick]

I didn't find ChiChi condescending at all, she probably sees Randall as yet another "do-gooder," another "wannabe savior" who makes a lot of promises and doesn't deliver.  ChiChi has probably seen them come and seen them go.

[doodlebug]

8 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I didn't find ChiChi condescending at all, she probably sees Randall as yet another "do-gooder," another "wannabe savior" who makes a lot of promises and doesn't deliver.  ChiChi has probably seen them come and seen them go.

Maybe, but he already had delivered.  He bought her building, did some needed renovations and upgrades and got rid of the rodents, etc.  From what we saw, he's already been far more responsive to the tenants than the previous building owner.  He's a do-gooder who has already done some good.  I don't think ChiChi will ever think anyone has done enough for her.  Remember how she treated William when she first moved to the building?  He was just another tenant in the slum and she still was rude and dismissive.  It seems to be her baseline and it doesn't seem to me to have much at all to do with Randall's position as her landlord or his socioeconomic status or his desire to 'fix' life for her.