S09.E01: A New Beginning.

[mrspidey]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

A plow is a very, low tech piece of equipment.  They easily could have designed them from scratch.

But that takes longer. So if you're gonna raid the Smithonian for heirloom seeds, why not take the plow while you're there. 

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Do zombies eat books?  Is that why they can't go to a library and get books on how to build all the things they want to build?

To me the question has always been why aren't there any engineers or scientists among them when Alexandria is a city with thousands of federal employees? There should enough people with the education and experience to build some of the things they need with or without books. The idea that Eugene is the only person who can build anything with technology or get anything technical to work is ridiculous. It is a plot device to keep life difficult for our survivors.

Edited October 9, 2018 by SimoneS

[PrePreBabylonia]

12 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I, for one, am glad my show is back.  I choose to ignore the plotholes big enough to drive a Smithsonian wagon through, and just concentrate on the characters I love.  

Of course, I also choose to believe the horse didn't die, so I am totally delusional.

Well, of COURSE the horse survived Walnutqueen, Ken couldn't give his life in vain! (Ken? Kent?) I fully expected that the parents would have been given these details, telling him that they were getting the hell out of dodge but the horse was immiment dinner, so Ken went back to save him and didn't make it. He was a hero! He died protecting one of his charges. THAT might have made them feel better.

12 hours ago, The Companion said:

Well, it's good to see that the passage of time hasn't made the gang any smarter. Hey, let's take everything across the glass even though it appears you could have hung some of it over the balcony or bannister. Let's start with the heaviest thing so we can weaken the glass before carrying other things across. Oh and we will tie everyone so we can pull them up but then sit there slackjawed when we have to pull someone up, leaving them to dangle like bait on a fishing hook.

Gregory should have died long ago and watching his awkward machinations was cringeworthy. Worse was watching an apparently sober man who turned to drinking attack Maggie so competently that she couldn't defend herself. PS Maggie, I am not parent shaming but who doesn't strap the kid in when going over bumpy terrain in a stroller? I had no interest in any of the scenes where Gregory was chewing scenery. The idea that he could gain any traction with anyone after all he has done was ridiculous.

I was annoyed by the reaction to red shirt's death with an assertion he should not have been out there (he was clearly needed for the horses) and the delusional idea that being a zombie snack wasnt a real risk when leaving the protected area. 

Yes, I couldn't think of one reason why they thought it would be practical to drag heavy objects over glass, especially since there was a bunch of walkers on the floor underneath.

You're totally right about the stroller, unless it no longer had the strap attached. I still think they could have devised one. Gregory should have gone quite a while ago. I have enjoyed his weaselness but it was primarily a one-note character.

11 hours ago, peach said:

A lot of stupid in this episode, but my favorite line was Maggie snarling at Gregory, "You can't even murder anyone right."

The focus on main characters is nice, but I feel the Carl sized hole.  For them to blame the idiocy of keeping Negan alive and taking care of the Saviors on him is just extra insulting.

I liked that line too. I think the actual stupidity in this episode is far less than I've seen in the last three years, so I am happy. I never thought that Angela Kung running things would make such a big difference. I am happy about it.

I felt the Carl sized hole when I saw the big funeral given to Ken, a redshirt. Where was Carl's big funeral/memorial? I know it was in the midst of war but something special should have been done. Perhaps this was Angela's symbolic honouring of Carl, what she would have done at the time if Gimple hadn't been running things.

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

All seriousness, it was certainly a step up from all of last season and the time jump seems to be shaking things up for the better.  Some characters have more to do again (I think Daryl actually had more lines and development in this episode alone, compared to all of last season), the conflicts actually make sense (Rick and Maggie), and I'm actually kind of curious to see how it all plays out.  Yay!

I guess every cockroach finally runs out of luck, because that certainly happened with Gregory!  I'm still surprised he last as long as he did, but a failed attempt at killing Maggie and whimpering while he gets hanged is certainly a fitting end for him.  I will miss that little weasel though.  Too bad that he's apparently a creepy perv in real life, because I thought Xander Berkeley was one of the strongest actors here (and in most of things he is in.)

I guess during all of their museum hunting, Father Gabriel took a moment to shop at Badass R. Us, since he's now looking like some kind of badass cowboy in a western.

Only real negative was all the reminders that Negan is still alive.  Love you, Jeffery Dean Morgan, but I'm not looking forward to watching him smirk and sneer his way through the show, again.

Yes, after it was all after and I had time to reflect, I realized: it didn't suck. I was going to probably give up on the show when Rick goes, but now I am potentially interested in continuing to see where Angela takes us.

I had to look up your comment about Xander Berkley, as I hadn't read anything about it at the time. My personal opinion is that it appeared to be catfishing, and nothing illegal happened or was being offered, certainly nothing #Metoo worthy. I am posting the link here, in case anyone else is interested.

https://spoilthedead.com/forum/showthread.php/28161-Xander-Berkeley-(Gregory)-is-a-creep

https://theblemish.com/2017/07/xander-berkeley-twitter-19-year-old-dm-spank/

3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

THAT was her?!?  Never ever recognized her.  Thing is I can't stand Brett Butler and I cringed when I heard they cast her and again when I saw her name in the credits.  So they did sneak her past me because I didn't catch on at all.  Guess that means the grieving parents will be around awhile and featured here and there though.

Rick needs to stop trying to save Sanctuary.  He can save the people if he wants but the location is a bad bet.   Daryl is right; Neegan made it work by taking from other communities, the soil at that factory can't possibly have the nutrients and minerals that would make it work for farming which is going to be essential.  They'd be better off building a satellite farm nearby, splitting everyone out to the other settlements or building a new settlement in a better location instead of pouring Hilltop and Alexandria's stockpiles into it.   I think his focus on "mercy" made him lose sight of actual logic and planning.

Loved the call back with Carol calling Daryl Pookie again and assuming the focus on Daryl is to start his journey to being a full on leader.  It would (will?) actually be interesting to see how Daryl would handle Sanctuary if Rick wasn't around constantly insisting everyone prop them up with supplies.

I originally thought it was the wife from Ozark but then recognized the voice as Brett Butler. I used to really like Grace Under Fire and Brett & Dave Thomas in particular. She had her own scandal I believe, involving drinking obsessively and saying very inappropriate things to a young boy on her set (I think he was cast as her son).

I originally thought that the Sanctuary people should be sent to a farm (or given the opportunity, since they aren't slaves) but evidently they aren't really the farmer types. Why not just repurpose the factory and start building the farm equipment and implements they brought back from the museum?

2 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Do zombies eat books?  Is that why they can't go to a library and get books on how to build all the things they want to build?

I am pretty sure they must be like my puppy (2 1/2 year old now), that still enjoys eating my own personal library. Cookbooks, psychology texts and Oprah magazines are his favourites! The walkers probably really like William Burroughs (Naked Lunch etc.)

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I liked it too.  It doesn't bother me that maybe they could have found some of this lying around Virginia farms because at least they're trying to be practical and thinking beyond the immediate smash and grab they'd been doing.  From what they were saying, by now everything within easy reach has already been scavenged and it gave us some great visuals of the continuing decay of roads and bridges and the buildings themselves.  It was very Life After People.  The problem they're going to be increasingly running into, as they also finally smartly addressed, is that they've scavenged all available fuel beyond what small amount of ethanol they can make for more than 20 miles out.  As Daryl remarked, it's now going to be more than a day's journey to go anywhere and without getting really lucky, they're likely to consume more fuel hunting it than they could probably make worth their while bringing back.

I find it believable that they're probably having problems growing enough to support themselves at the Sanctuary.  It looks like an old factory at what was probably once an industrial park.  With the amount of concrete and pollutants likely there, that ground isn't going to be good for growing much for awhile.  The only thing unbelievable about it is that after a year and some change they're not having serious discussions about relocating that group somewhere else where they might be able to set up farming operations.  But that gets them back to the original problem that Rick and company didn't seem interested in doing any serious vetting of the Saviors at the end of their war to see if there were foot soldiers or workers among them like the singing Hilltop guy who maybe could be integrated and who needed to be dealt with through exile, execution, or imprisonment.  That said, I appreciate the continuity of acknowledging that Ricky boy's decision to let Negan live on as a chained up pet and keep the Saviors among them as an interconnected community did not sit easy with everyone in all the communities and that they're now seeing some of the backlash to that.  It's something we talked about a fair bit here at the end of last season, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see the show completely handwave away.

Yes, those are all really good points. I hadn't read Earth Abides but I have long wondered what they are going to do when all the supplies they are so dependent on, run out or expire.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl actually looked clean for a change.  How long can that possibly last?

I felt bad for the dude that died trying to save a horse.  I didn't see a dead horse anywhere, so I am not sure that the horse died.  This series has never been too shy when it comes to showing horses becoming walker chow and I didn't see this one getting eaten.  The dude did get kicked by the horse.  I was hoping that the horse would have kicked the walker instead.

I also like the new opening scenes/credits of the series.  I hope they didn't blow their whole budget on just that.

If the Saviors could be trusted, perhaps a bunch of the men could move on to Oceanside and help that community, and the rest of the men and women go move to the Kingdom which has lost most of its fighters.

I like Jerry a lot, but I do feel real bad for that poor horse that he was riding.  Reminds of the days of Hoss Cartwright.  My back hurts just thinking about it.

I was hoping that Gregory would have been booted from the communities and left to fend for himself.  It didn't make a lot of sense for Maggie to have him killed.  Maggie appears to be headed down a very dark path.

Yes, they were.  I wonder if that woman that gave them the books will put in another appearance.  I think there was a book on aqueducts or something like that. 

Yes, Darryl looked clean! Having a shower must have released his tongue. Who'd a guessed that dirt had stuck his tongue down so much that he was incapable of speech?

I too am rooting for Ken's horse, I hope he got away. I pretty much regard horses as red shirts on The Walking Dead, since all of the early ones went down so painfully. It was nice to see most (or all) of them survive this episode.

I thought it made perfect sense for Maggie to have Gregory killed, it probably should have been done a long time ago.  They had already booted him out and he went to help Negan and his crew, then came back and terrorised the hilltop. Gregory couldn't be trusted wherever he went. He always is an evil voice in someone's ear (I kept thinking of Wormtongue in Lord of the Rings) and always just keeps coming back to Hilltop.  I feel badly that Maggie had to make this decision in isolation though. I think the guilt will weigh heavily on her, and that is the dark path she is going towards. Somehow that will fit in with her shortened role this season.

I can't remember the name of the woman with the books but I do recall that she is a famous character actress. I am sure that she will be back, for minimal guest appearances.

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Seriously. None of the items taken felt particularly complex, honestly. It would have made more sense for them to be getting something like a spinning wheel. Something with moving parts that might take some time to figure out without an example. Also, it would have been easier to transport people than to transport that giant old wagon (of dubious running ability and upkeep). Why not have some of their people come and measure and take notes. If that stuff isn't going anywhere, they could observe on several occasions. That actually would have made for a more compelling red shirt. 

Not for nothing, but those hats are popular with people who spend a lot of time outside for practical reasons. As a pale person in a post-sunscreen world, I would have to wear a giant hat and long sleeves pretty much all the time.

This is what makes absolutely no sense. There are things that they could presumably do (distilling, processing, preserving, etc.). Why would they not have set up some sort of exchange/trade? We send you corn, you give us half the fuel. Hell, they could trade for labor (a solution Maggie settled on in all of 30 seconds). There were most definitely people in that group who would have wanted to relocated, but even the ones that don't lack a credibility problem when left on their own after everything. I would have expected them to be either distributed among the other settlements or expected to trade for anything they wanted. The idea that they are just receiving items with no work 18 months later doesn't seem realistic to me.  

Just one more reason that Rick shouldn't be the ultimate leader. He's not good at details like that.

Overall, I am very happy with this opener. No Negan, stupidity was minor, and we have a sense that Angela Kung is going to tread a very different path than Scott Gimple. Yay! Although he is ultimately the one in charge of the franchise, it looks like she will be putting her own flair on the show. I am more optimistic about The Walking Dead than I have been for a long time. Maybe I'll once again be excited about the upcoming week's show. Maybe.

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

As a pale person in a post-sunscreen world, I would have to wear a giant hat and long sleeves pretty much all the time.

I would hope that in a world where one bite means amputation at best and death at worst you wouldn't walk around without some armor on, especially on your extremities.  Which would make you smarter than everyone on this show.

[Bryce Lynch]

51 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

But that takes longer. So if you're gonna raid the Smithonian for heirloom seeds, why not take the plow while you're there. 

Taking the plows to use them makes some sense.  The post I responded to talked about using them as models to build more.  I think they would have limited use in that area.  

Aren't there seeds in garden centers and stores with them like Home Depot, Walmart, etc?   I don't see the Smithsonian as a particularly smart place to score seeds.

The wagon was perhaps the most ridiculous thing (well that and the crappy canoe).   Those things could be easily constructed without models, or in the case of the wagon, adapted from automobiles and such.  That primitive canoe would be of zero value.  I'm sure there are thousands of modern ones to be scavenged from backyards, lakesides, and sporting goods stores.  

[Bryce Lynch]

Another thing that bothers me is that it seems that during the time jump they got WORSE at dealing with Walkers.   Why don't they setup Walker traps along the roads, like Morgan did, way back in Season 3, and while he was totally out of his mind?  A bunch of wood spikes with caged birds or other animals for Walker bait would stop most of them.  Then have a team come through every day or so to pierce their skulls and empty the traps. 

[nodorothyparker]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Aren't there seeds in garden centers and stores with them like Home Depot, Walmart, etc?   I don't see the Smithsonian as a particularly smart place to score seeds

Jadis/Anne mentioned that those were all heirloom lines of seeds.  They were keeping a so-called doomsday vault of them specifically for the absolute worst-case scenario like this.  It's a real thing that exists in locations around the globe.

We've genetically messed with crops so much that a lot of stuff you buy commercially isn't going to be as good for self generating future crops.  Think how much seedless produce is available now.  It's a whole different process to propagate those.

[Macbeth]

14 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

 

Daryl's sudden, opinionated chattering was disorienting.

I know.  Daryl speaks, who knew?? 

I think Daryl spoke more in this one episode than all other episodes combined. 

[iMonrey]

I promised myself I would watch until they wrote Rick off the show. Tonight's episode, while not dismal, did nothing to encourage me to keep watching past that point. I didn't find it particularly engaging, and I imagine it would have been torture to sit through all those commercials so I'm thankful I recorded it. There were almost a full 30 minutes of commercials by my count. At least there was no Negan. I mean . . . do they really think I'm going to keep watching this thing when Rick is gone and Negan is still there? No thanks.

It pissed me off seeing all those people riding in the heavy wagon those poor horses were pulling. 

Quote

Was it my imagination or were Earl's (Ken's dad) hands tied in front of him? Was he going to be executed, too?

This part confused me too. I wasn't even sure who it was that attacked Maggie when they pulled off the hood. The problem with this whole story is that these are brand-new characters we've never seen before. The death of the kid and the aftermath with the parents utterly lacked impact because of that. Who cares? I don't know them.

Quote

The  Sanctuary should have been closed down and the people that lived there should have found another place to live.  It makes no sense to try and prop up an unlivable place like Sanctuary.

I tend to think the same thing, unless there's some practical reason to keep manning the factory, like it's ideal for making something maybe? Otherwise it makes no sense to have these communities spread so far apart. And as far as feeding and helping the Saviors goes . . . a lot of them were actually slave labor kept there against their will. I agree that Negan's top lieutenants should be in the brink right next to him but it's trickier to just write off everyone else who were just surviving in varying degrees.

[AngelaHunter]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This part confused me too. I wasn't even sure who it was that attacked Maggie when they pulled off the hood. The problem with this whole story is that these are brand-new characters we've never seen before. The death of the kid and the aftermath with the parents utterly lacked impact because of that. Who cares? I don't know them.

Exactly! I was thinking, "Who are these people and why should I feel instant empathy or sympathy for them, or even care at all?" Sometimes I feel I've missed something previously, when we have people getting long scenes meant to be heart-wrenching or dramatic as with Ken, and Maggie crying over him and I've never laid eyes on him before. That whole first scene - "Walkers! Run! Run, everyone! Leave the horse! Leave everything!" and then it's "Oh, well. Guess we better just kill them all. Won't take but a few minutes." had me scratching my head right off the bat I mean, right away. Shouldn't say "bat" around here.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I liked it too.  It doesn't bother me that maybe they could have found some of this lying around Virginia farms because at least they're trying to be practical and thinking beyond the immediate smash and grab they'd been doing.  From what they were saying, by now everything within easy reach has already been scavenged and it gave us some great visuals of the continuing decay of roads and bridges and the buildings themselves.  It was very Life After People.  The problem they're going to be increasingly running into, as they also finally smartly addressed, is that they've scavenged all available fuel beyond what small amount of ethanol they can make for more than 20 miles out.  As Daryl remarked, it's now going to be more than a day's journey to go anywhere and without getting really lucky, they're likely to consume more fuel hunting it than they could probably make worth their while bringing back...

Earth Abides occurred to me too when we saw the bridge collapse as well as everything being reclaimed by vines and weeds.

I liked this as well. I like the realism that four to five years into the Zombie Apocalypse that all the human produced goods are gone, the infrastructure is crumbling without maintenance, and nature is taking over, doing its thing.  Life is getting harder and more difficult even as they are now more skilled at dealing with the walkers. The only thing that doesn't work for me is the lack of roaming packs of dogs along with other domesticated and wild animals everywhere.  

 

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I find it believable that they're probably having problems growing enough to support themselves at the Sanctuary.  It looks like an old factory at what was probably once an industrial park.  With the amount of concrete and pollutants likely there, that ground isn't going to be good for growing much for awhile.  The only thing unbelievable about it is that after a year and some change they're not having serious discussions about relocating that group somewhere else where they might be able to set up farming operations.  But that gets them back to the original problem that Rick and company didn't seem interested in doing any serious vetting of the Saviors at the end of their war to see if there were foot soldiers or workers among them like the singing Hilltop guy who maybe could be integrated and who needed to be dealt with through exile, execution, or imprisonment.  That said, I appreciate the continuity of acknowledging that Ricky boy's decision to let Negan live on as a chained up pet and keep the Saviors among them as an interconnected community did not sit easy with everyone in all the communities and that they're now seeing some of the backlash to that.  It's something we talked about a fair bit here at the end of last season, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see the show completely handwave away.

The whole situation with the Saviors is unbelievable. I can't get over Rick thinking that the other communities would be fine living near and trading with these people who brutalized them and suffered no punishment. The show could have addressed this problem rather than ignoring it like the comics.

Edited October 8, 2018 by SimoneS

[AngelaHunter]

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The only thing that doesn't work for me is the lack of roaming packs of dogs along with other domesticated and wild animals everywhere.  

Well, when we have tigers who can't overpower rotting corpses and deer/horses who can't outrun them, I'm not surprised at the lack of animals outside the communities. It all makes me wonder where everyone scored all the saddle horses, saddles and harness though.

[Bryce Lynch]

22 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I liked this as well. I like the realism that four to five years into the Zombie Apocalypse that all the human produced goods are gone, the infrastructure is crumbling without maintenance, and nature is taking over, doing its thing.  Life is getting harder and more difficult even as they are now more skilled at dealing with the walkers. The only thing that doesn't work for me is the lack of roaming packs of dogs along with other domesticated and wild animals everywhere.  

 

The whole situation with the Saviors is unbelievable. I can't get over Rick thinking that the other communities would be fine living near and trading with these people who brutalized them and suffered no punishment. The show could have addressed this problem rather than ignoring it like the comics.

I could see the other groups making peace with the Saviors and trading with them, but not supporting them with welfare.  We started trading with the Germans and Japanese shortly after WWII.

What I don't believe is that Rick would think anyone would think it would be acceptable to let Neagan live.  

When the pro-Neagan graffiti was discovered at the sanctuary, Daryl and Rick should have told the former Saviors that they were going to start executing people until they found out who it was.   Forgiveness is great, but when those forgiven decide to turn back to that sort of evil and become a threat to all the communities, it cannot be tolerated.  

The graffiti was more evidence that Rick was a grossly incompetent leader for not executing Neagan.   As long as he is alive, he and his former followers are a threat, especially in a world where they lack the infrastructure (police, prisons, etc.) to protect themselves from them.  

[Persnickety1]

For the first time in many seasons, I didn't need to use closed captioning to decipher Mumblestiltskin Daryl's mumbling.  

I was waiting for him to burn himself with his cigarette like he did a few seasons back to cure his blues.  

Maybe Carol took the cigarette from him and put it out before he could do it.

I did enjoy his scene with Carol. 

It's just unfortunate she didn't once again tell him to take a shower.  

All in all, I rather enjoyed this episode.  It wasn't all sorts of awesome as early in the series, but I thought it was definitely a refreshing change from the shit they've been trying to spoon feed gagging viewers for the past 2-3 seasons.  

Baby steps and all, I guess.  

[watch2much]

I hate Rick's hair.  Looks like he just walked out of a salon.

[Ramona]

I thought it was a strong premiere.  I was shocked at the hanging of Gregory although he had it coming.  I really thought the attempt on Maggie's life was a little contrived.  I mean, why did that guy( I think his name is Earl) attack her out in the open like that?  I mean the Hilltop is a small community so someone would have seen him eventually.  Also, and this is a petty point, I thought Enid's reaction to Maggie getting attacked was a little lame.  A believable reaction would have been "Get off of her!" or "Somebody help!"  But like I said, that's just a petty thing.  I am watching these episodes with trepidation, because I know what's coming and I am dreading it.  

[ClareWalks]

A few things

1) RIP Gregory, you douche. Nobody will miss you. What a horrible character.

2) Liked the added touch of the big "Manifest Destiny" sign behind all the zombies that were under the glass floor.

3) Norman Reedus sounds like he has shifted Daryl's voice a bit higher and less raspy, more like it was in earlier seasons. He was getting so deep and harsh that it was practically incomprehensible, so I appreciate the change.

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I would hope that in a world where one bite means amputation at best and death at worst you wouldn't walk around without some armor on, especially on your extremities.  Which would make you smarter than everyone on this show.

But that would mean everyone would be sporting sizes-too-small ladies leather moto jackets, just like Negan.  Wait a minute - we are all Negan???

 

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Jadis/Anne mentioned that those were all heirloom lines of seeds.  They were keeping a so-called doomsday vault of them specifically for the absolute worst-case scenario like this.  It's a real thing that exists in locations around the globe.

We've genetically messed with crops so much that a lot of stuff you buy commercially isn't going to be as good for self generating future crops.  Think how much seedless produce is available now.  It's a whole different process to propagate those.

Go fuck yourself, Monsanto.

[Boofish]

9 minutes ago, Tasha Brand said:

Regina has the barcode.  Arat (not Arun) killed Olivia.  I did see Regina, but I am pretty sure that Arat was killed by Michonne after being forced to show her that Savior compound.

The only other Savior woman I remember is Laura, the blonde, and she seems to be working with Daryl.

Thanks for the clarifications. Arat is alive and well with a short blonde haircut and hot as ever. 

[Colorado David]

Yeah, agree on the wagon getting from the museum as stupid. You could cannibalize (lol pun!) a car or truck, strip away the upholstery and engine, etc, and basically have a rolling wagon you could tow with horses (eh maybe tires would be an obstacle as I don't know how many good ones are still around.) But shoot, one strong person can push a car in neutral, I'm sure a LOT easier than trying to push/pull a 19th century wagon. 

I absolutely did not recognize Brett Butler either. I am glad she's working tho, I hate seeing former stars falling apart as they get older.

Coulda used a bit more Eugene, but that's just a personal preference - he cracks me up.  And glad Jadis/Anne is talking NORMAL now, that Mad Max speak was just impossible to listen to. 

Eh Gregory, what was the plan there? Maggie gets killed and you automatically get to step up into that role? Everyone in town would suddenly decide you WERE qualified??? Dumb. (Well and question, they hung him. Doesn't he still need a knife in the head otherwise he'll come back? Wouldn't that have been more merciful than hanging?)

[LydiaMoon1]

6 hours ago, The Companion said:

This is what makes absolutely no sense. There are things that they could presumably do (distilling, processing, preserving, etc.). Why would they not have set up some sort of exchange/trade? We send you corn, you give us half the fuel. Hell, they could trade for labor (a solution Maggie settled on in all of 30 seconds).

Because Negan and the Saviors were too busy extorting goods and services from innocent people to dedicate themselves to becoming useful and productive people. That's why I have absolutely no sympathy for them now. Even after 18 months, these idiots are still useless.  The show can go somewhere with their 'Negan Terrorized the Countryside Because They Couldn't Grow Crops At the Sanctuary' BS. As if there were no actions in-between 'The Sanctuary Can't Grow Crops' and 'Let's Maim, Steal, and Kill Everyone We Meet and Take Their Sh*t' Because We're Too Dumb and Lazy to Take Car of Ourselves'.

UGH!

Edited October 8, 2018 by LydiaMoon1

[nodorothyparker]

15 minutes ago, Tasha Brand said:

Regina has the barcode.  Arat (not Arun) killed Olivia.  I did see Regina, but I am pretty sure that Arat was killed by Michonne after being forced to show her that Savior compound.

The only other Savior woman I remember is Laura, the blonde, and she seems to be working with Daryl.

The WD Wikia identifies Laura as the blonde with the barcode neck tattoo.  Regina was Negan's female lieutenant with the faux hawk and amazing biceps.

The whole Sanctuary can't grow crops thing is a reason, not an excuse.  Because while it's a very legitimate concern, then and now there are other options than terrorizing and taking things from their neighbors.  If they can't support themselves there, they either need to produce something they can trade or move to a different location where they can grow their own corn.  Farming does take a certain amount of time and the learning curve can be steep, but it's absurd that in a year and half they haven't made any more inroads into figuring it out than this.  If the Saviors either couldn't or wouldn't, Rick and his cohorts as the people in charge should have.  Rick acted like Maggie suggesting it was the first time they'd ever thought of it.

[FishyJoe]

Yeah, after all that has happened, you would think they would be much more paranoid. They should have scouting/recon parties constantly to find new threats. They should also have crazy security at night. But it seems they are going to be permanent victims forever.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If they are looking for bullets, there ought to be plenty of fishing/hunting type stores to "rifle" through.

Seriously, there ought to be plenty of seed to find in the wild along with berry bushes.  Sunflowers are full of seeds.

Glad to see that they didn't shoot Heckle and Jeckle (magpies, crow-like birds).

Libraries and even fishing/hunting type stores ought to be full of survival type books.

They should be mounting trail cameras all over the place in well hidden spots in an effort to catch any of the "big bads" that may eventually put in an appearance.  There ought to be plenty of those in those same fishing/hunting type stores.

I think most sporting goods stores probably got cleaned out of guns and ammo, pretty early on.   I would think they would still have a lot of canoes, kayaks, fishing equipment, and such, though.   

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The time jump bothers me, because we don't get the slowly developing discontent of the people in the various communities.

Also, Hershel's head is huge, if Maggie delivered that kid within the past year, she should be still walking bow-legged.

BTW, it was nice for TWD to give a shout out at the end of the episode to the passing of Scott Wilson.

I kind of liked the jump, because we had been stuck for ever with the Saviors plot  and "All out war".  But, I see your point.  It might have been good to see the aftermath of the war, and the initial stages of rebuilding, and things like Maggie's political campaign against Gregory.  But, that would have required writing by the writers, so I guess I am OK with the jump.  They at least seemed to explain what happened.  

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That is the type of thing that would cause the Saviors to revolt.  It would also make Rick no better than the antagonists he has dealt with in the past.  Not that Rick hasn't acted like a dirt bag in various situations in the past, in particular last season. 

I get that, but I just think that they cannot afford to let Neaganism gain any sort of a foothold.  I would liken it to how the Germans have banned all forms of Nazism.  In the US, as vile as it is, Free Speech is more important, so it makes sense to let the evil wackos bray.  But, in the wake of WWII and the Holocaust, it was prudent for the Germans to prioritize preventing a resurgence of Nazism, over Free Speech, in that narrow area.  

I'd also say that promoting Neaganism is a form a treason in the new, post "All Out War" world.   

Of course, such harsh techniques might not have been needed.  If they had pleaded with the Sanctuary residents, to turn in the Neaganites, I imagine they would have.  

Edited October 8, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[maystone]

10 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

A modern plow works on the same principle, just that it does multiple rows at once. All you would need to do is cut it down to fewer rows so a horse could pull it. And it would be much easier because a modern plow is made of steel so it would be a lot stronger, lighter and more efficient.

If it were made of steel, how would you cut it down?

7 hours ago, The Companion said:

This is what makes absolutely no sense. There are things that they could presumably do (distilling, processing, preserving, etc.). Why would they not have set up some sort of exchange/trade? We send you corn, you give us half the fuel. Hell, they could trade for labor (a solution Maggie settled on in all of 30 seconds). There were most definitely people in that group who would have wanted to relocated, but even the ones that don't lack a credibility problem when left on their own after everything. I would have expected them to be either distributed among the other settlements or expected to trade for anything they wanted. The idea that they are just receiving items with no work 18 months later doesn't seem realistic to me.  
 

I think that the issue is that of the five communities that make up TWD right now, three of them are run by members of the original crew. Yeah, I'm counting Ezekiel among that group even though he's a relative newcomer. It seems that they're just starting to perceive of these enclaves as separate communities rather than satellites of one bigger cohesive group. If it's seen as being just a spread-out family, why not share and share alike? You'd help your friends in need, especially in such a dire time.

The truth, though, is that the Saviors are a conquered group, and the Sanctuary is more of an occupied territory than a sovereign city. It's Camp Dinner Bell setting the rules there, and from what we've seen so far, there doesn't seem to be any willingness to let the former group run their own place.   I mean I understand why that is, and I love that the show is letting us see how that problem is going to be worked out.

We don't have a hell of a lot of concrete info yet, but it seems as if there are far too many people at the Sanctuary to get reasonably split up into the other four communities without overloading each of their set ups. And there is no way in hell that anyone from Oceanside would welcome a Savior. Everyone had suffered under Negan, but it was at Oceanside that every male member of their families murdered. There's no moving past that right now.

I love the underlying currents in this new season. Maggie is sparking a rebellion whether she knows it or not. If she can be judge, jury, and executioner (if Dale were still alive this would have killed him), then why shouldn't other leaders set up their own laws. I mean, right now there are no laws - just a group of friends and allies who've been like-minded and trusting that no one was going to go rogue or stray from their commonly held morality. We don't know if there was a trial; I'd guess it was more of a declaration from Maggie that Gregory tried to kill her, injured her child and Enid, so Gregory must die. Thank you all for coming; Daryl go get a horse and a noose. I was fascinated that none of the original crew tried to argue or interfere; there's a tacit agreement that Hilltop is Maggie's territory and under her rule. But I did get the feeling that this was the first time that the consequences of that looked so . . . unexpected. I wish Michonne had had the chance to bring up her Charter idea before Maggie went all "off with his head" on Gregory, because now it's going to look as if it's in reaction to that instead of being simply a statement of agreed upon norms.

1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

Yeah, after all that has happened, you would think they would be much more paranoid. They should have scouting/recon parties constantly to find new threats. They should also have crazy security at night. But it seems they are going to be permanent victims forever.

They do have scouting parties and security watches. There were several instances of scouts calling in with reports on where a herd of walkers was in relation to the people out traveling. As to Hilltop, Maggie was inside a secured compound with what she thought of as her friends. Outside of imposing a curfew, there's no way to guard against betrayal in the night.

Edited October 8, 2018 by maystone

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Regina was Negan's female lieutenant with the faux hawk and amazing biceps.

I need to know who the barber/hairdresser is at the Sanctuary, that so many people can sport fresh, sharp haircuts and dye jobs.

 

37 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Also, Hershel's head is huge,

When Maggie said "Hershel" it just made me cringe. Couldn't she have used "Hershel" for his middle name and maybe "Glenn" for his first name? Yeah, I know. Glenn is ancient history and his existence all but forgotten (apparently even by his wife) but anyway, the baby looks more like his father than his grandfather. Call me crazy, but if my husband and the father of my child were murdered, I kind of might think about naming the child after him.

[imnoangel129]

What bothers me is the fact that since the Claimers,  Daryl has been Rick’s brother.   Now Rick has his brother running the very place that tortured him.  Now when Daryl saids that doesn’t want to be around these people anymore and wants to come home, Rick basically saids no.

 

Rick only cares about himself and Michonne.  Everybody else needs to do as he tells them.

[nodorothyparker]

If there is an amazing hairdresser at the Sanctuary, Daryl's still obviously not using them.

 

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

When the pro-Neagan graffiti was discovered at the sanctuary, Daryl and Rick should have told the former Saviors that they were going to start executing people until they found out who it was.   Forgiveness is great, but when those forgiven decide to turn back to that sort of evil and become a threat to all the communities, it cannot be tolerated.  

The graffiti was more evidence that Rick was a grossly incompetent leader for not executing Neagan.   As long as he is alive, he and his former followers are a threat, especially in a world where they lack the infrastructure (police, prisons, etc.) to protect themselves from them. 

A lot of this could have been avoided had Rick not immediately issued a blanket pardon at the end of their all-out war and taken a little time to sort through all those people he'd just become responsible for.  We've been given evidence that there were plenty of rank and file who didn't support Negan and just wanted to live.  I mean, they applauded Rick freakin' Grimes when he walked into the Sanctuary.  So maybe you don't allow them guns anymore (as they mentioned) but you do let them work and contribute to the larger effort.  Let them earn their way into the larger community.  Those are the ones you can get on your side and threatening to summarily execute them isn't the way to do that.  It just convinces them that they're probably not any better off than they were before under the old management.

They should have made the effort to weed out the lieutenants, the malcontents, the ones who weren't willing to make amends and do the work.  That's the trouble though when you spare the man responsible for it all on some vaguely high-minded notion.  You already know he'd built up a cult of personality around himself and that as long as he's alive he can still stand as figurehead to any resistance that doesn't want to share and share alike.  But you can't go around taking a hard line like threatening death for lesser offenses like a little graffiti if baseball-batting your friends to death and raining down the kind of death and destruction he has across multiple communities didn't earn that kind of punishment.

[Ramona]

10 hours ago, cincivic said:

Was it my imagination or were Earl's (Ken's dad) hands tied in front of him? Was he going to be executed, too?

I thought so too, I have to go back an re-watch. 

[AngelaHunter]

53 minutes ago, imnoangel129 said:

Rick only cares about himself and Michonne.

Fixed. When has he ever cared about anyone else? If he did, he wouldn't be keeping Negan as a pet or a shrine to altar of Cworl, whose existence is a knife to the heart of everyone who suffered at his hands, and wouldn't have threatened anyone who wanted to bump him off. Rick is an asshole, a self-absorbed asshole whose wants and needs take precedence over anyone else's. Sorry that it came to this, Rick.

58 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If there is an amazing hairdresser at the Sanctuary, Daryl's still obviously not using them.

 

Yabbut, didn't anyone notice that he actually moved that long strand out of his eye? That's some progress.

[Anela]

A+ for a Negan-free episode. Until the preview at the end, which I was sure would be there. He should have been hanging from that rope.

RIP Gregory, you old weasel. Daenarys has made her way to TWD, and I do like that Maggie just doesn't give a shit anymore. I didn't like the darker tones over her conversation with Rick, at the end. 

"I love you, and I always will." Zeke is dead, or she is. 

I don't know if I'll watch next week, since the douche is back. 

I can't remember her name, but I liked seeing the woman who was the mother of the dead boy. She was good in the role. 

[TattleTeeny]

Am I nuts or dense or did that wagon seem to be more trouble than it was worth? I feel (perhaps misguidedly) sure that someone(s) could build a perfectly decent Pa Ingalls wagon without a prototype.

ETA: Ooops, sorry--I was just musing and reading and didn't take in that FishyJoe and various others pretty much made that point.  Something else I mused about was whether anyone ever just turns to Jadis-now-Anne and says, "Hey, remember when you used to talk in that really stupid way?"

I like that Carl's grave is in the new credits. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[raven]

I re-watched because I was too busy goofing around with you guys and missed some stuff.

When they get the plow, Maggie does say that in addition to using it, they will examine it to make another.   I also didn't realize that Red Shirt was killed by a horse kick rather than a zombie bite.  They have people doing blacksmith/metal work because Red Shirt talked about apprenticing and horse shoeing.

I didn't quite realize that they had grown some food at the Sanctuary and there was a recent bad crop or something; so they Sanctuary people haven't been completely dependent on everyone else.  I think a lot of the remaining people were worker bees and not soldiers, though there's probably a few of those mixed in. 

Gregory's attempt to use Grieving Family to eliminate Maggie was really heavy handed.  Grieving Mother says they voted for Maggie, so presumably they liked her.  I get they blame her for Red Shirt's death, but they do know there's danger all the time.  The reaction of Grieving Father being coerced to murder seems a tad extreme.  Murder isn't always the answer.

Daryl's discontent annoyed me.  I understand it (I wouldn't want to be in his position) but he came off a bit whiny.  He gets to go on missions, is in a position of relative power, gets 3 squares and cigarettes and rides a cool bike.  Quit your bellyaching, Mr. Outdoor Cat.  If it's been 18 months, then he and Maggie presumably have been fuming in silence; that passive-aggressive crap bugs me.  After everything they've been through together, just hash it out with Rick already.  That said, I look forward to Carol running the Sanctuary.

2 hours ago, maystone said:

I wish Michonne had had the chance to bring up her Charter idea before Maggie went all "off with his head" on Gregory, because now it's going to look as if it's in reaction to that instead of being simply a statement of agreed upon norms.

Good point.  There was an election, so some people probably voted for and liked Gregory. A unilateral decision to execute someone is not usually a good idea.  That's why there are laws, to avoid vigilante justice.   I don't blame her, but if you're going to lead, you're supposed to be above all that.  Which leads me to Negan.

The reason he's alive (other than to annoy some of us who watch the show) is because he's a symbol - "look, look at the awful things he's done but he's still alive because we, as a group, are better than that.  We've made a decision to be better and move away from using killing as the answer.  Negan is effectively neutered now, killing him would be for revenge only".   Now of course they're kind of stuck - Michonne says maybe they should have killed him.  However if they do it now, when he's relatively harmless, they will look worse off and he will become a martyr and arouse sympathy.

Of course Rick should have killed him when they fought but that's a different argument. 

Rick is really bad at reading the room.  Maggie just survived an assassination attempt, doesn't want to come to Alexandria because of Negan and Rick wants her to stretch her community to support the Sanctuary.  Maggie was being reasonable and she had a point - they surrendered and were allowed to live.  Maybe they don't want handouts; Carol should be able to sort that shit out.

The whole sequence with Red Shirt getting killed is still dumb though.

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 

I'd also say that promoting Neaganism is a form a treason in the new, post "All Out War" world.  

Of course.  Negan would become a religion in TWD universe.

[Dobian]

Wow animated opening credits, that's new.

So they couldn't find an old carriage and plow on any of the thousand barns in the greater Alexandria area, they had to grab one from the Capitol?

"Well we have a glass floor here with zombies walking underneath, lets pull something really heavy across it."

Did Tara talk at all ths episode?  That alone improved my rating of the premiere a couple of stars.

Daryl actually had human dialogue and it was pretty good, a refreshing change from last season's screeching and hollering like a rabid raccoon.

Maggie got to have her baby without Lauren Cohan ever once having to wear a fake baby bump, a television first.

I just knew forgiving Gregory was a bad idea.

I did like the quiet understated tone of the premier.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Dobian

[DearEvette]

I fully admit, I was not as invested in the second half of last season as I could have been.  But did I miss, like, a bunch of episodes that told me who the fuck Ken was?  Or Tammy?  Or tattoo neck girl? Or singing guy?  Who are these people?? 

This didn't suck.  I actually loved the scene of them riding into Washington, DC.  There was this great up-angle shot of Gabriel in that flat brimmed black hat, looking grim faced riding in the horse drawn buggy.  The whole feel of that scene felt really post apocalyptic and bleak.  For the first time the show looked like a real dystopia. 

I wish they had gotten to a point like this after obliterating Negan/Saviors off the face of the earth.  I loved how resolute Maggie and Darryl were in killing off Gregory.  This is what the show has been missing, old skool Ricktator resolve, not Rick shooting at windows.  I feel sad that Rick is gone.

[AngelaHunter]

19 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

But did I miss, like, a bunch of episodes that told me who the fuck Ken was?  Or Tammy?  Or tattoo neck girl? Or singing guy?  Who are these people?? 

I feel the same way, but it seems we missed nothing. In the opening, when "Ken" was talking to his friends, whoever they are, about his dad, whoever he is, being grumpy or something, I was wondering, "Who are these kids? Who is his dad? Do I have amnesia?" Then Ken immediately croaks in a very dumb way and we're supposed to be shocked and mourn him, I guess.

22 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I loved how resolute Maggie and Darryl were in killing off Gregory. 

I just wondered why the hell they couldn't go to Alexandria and do the same thing to Motor Mouth? Who's going to stop them? Ricky and his girlfriend? Would Rick pull a gun on them? Would Michonne, standin' by her man, threaten them - Maggie and Daryl -  with her sword in order to protect the Fonz?

[ShellsandCheese]

I've never seen people cross weakened, damaged, and cracked glass flooring so slowly. The whole time, I was like, "move"!! Also, Ezekiel really does need to pin his hair up on this missions. 

[Dobian]

It was satisfying seeing Gregory strung up and flopping like a fish from the end of a rope, I couldn't take another season of that guy.  I think the new show runner knew that most people couldn't take another season of that guy.

[peach]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

 I wish they had gotten to a point like this after obliterating Negan/Saviors off the face of the earth.  I loved how resolute Maggie and Darryl were in killing off Gregory.  This is what the show has been missing, old skool Ricktator resolve, not Rick shooting at windows.  I feel sad that Rick is gone.

I so agree with you.  It's really hard for me to watch current Rick.  I like the Daryl-Maggie duo taking care of business.  I feel like Angela Kang has definitely improved the overall interactions of the show, which they had all but killed off in the last couple years, but the fundamental plot issue with the Sanctuary and Negan remains. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

The horse thing was so, so dumb.  There was like 10 walkers there.  Are you fucking kidding me?  One of the group could slay them easily and they were going to run away?  I get it had to lead up to something........

Umm yeah that canoe didn't even look functional and there are plenty of boats around that are probably light weight.  Just say you are going to get the seeds and I'd be satisfied. 

[Anela]

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I feel the same way, but it seems we missed nothing. In the opening, when "Ken" was talking to his friends, whoever they are, about his dad, whoever he is, being grumpy or something, I was wondering, "Who are these kids? Who is his dad? Do I have amnesia?" Then Ken immediately croaks in a very dumb way and we're supposed to be shocked and mourn him, I guess.

I just wondered why the hell they couldn't go to Alexandria and do the same thing to Motor Mouth? Who's going to stop them? Ricky and his girlfriend? Would Rick pull a gun on them? Would Michonne, standin' by her man, threaten them - Maggie and Daryl -  with her sword in order to protect the Fonz?

I missed him getting killed - or seeing it, anyway (had headphones on, in the kitchen, as I was cooking dinner), but when I saw another unknown die, I thought of you asking, "Who the fuck is Ken??" Once his parents appeared, I remembered the post in another thread. 

6 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I've never seen people cross weakened, damaged, and cracked glass flooring so slowly. The whole time, I was like, "move"!! Also, Ezekiel really does need to pin his hair up on this missions. 

I was thinking the same thing about his hair. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Anela

[OoohMaggie]

Making of E1

https://www.amc.com/shows/the-walking-dead/video-extras/season-09/episode-01/spoilers-making-of-the-walking-dead-season-9-episode-1

[OoohMaggie]

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

When Maggie said "Hershel" it just made me cringe. Couldn't she have used "Hershel" for his middle name and maybe "Glenn" for his first name? Yeah, I know. Glenn is ancient history and his existence all but forgotten (apparently even by his wife) but anyway, the baby looks more like his father than his grandfather. Call me crazy, but if my husband and the father of my child were murdered, I kind of might think about naming the child after him.

Glenn Hershel would be the choice for most I feel, I don’t know anything about Scott’s illness, but maybe it was known that he probably wouldn’t pull through and they named him as a tribute.

[OoohMaggie]

18 hours ago, Tasha Brand said:

Regina has the barcode.  Arat (not Arun) killed Olivia.  I did see Regina, but I am pretty sure that Arat was killed by Michonne after being forced to show her that Savior compound.

The only other Savior woman I remember is Laura, the blonde, and she seems to be working with Daryl.

Laura is the cute blonde one with the barcode tattoo, Regina is the one with the limp shooing away the crows, Arat was the one hoisting the Walker up to use as a scarecrow.

Edited October 9, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[OoohMaggie]

I was incredibly nervous about the premier, especially after seeing the sneak peeks. Thankfully the silliness, which they still can’t manage to avoid, was limited to Ken’s death and to a lesser extent the ‘unbreakable’ glass floor appearing to be made from sugar glass.

That aside I thought it was a great move forward, I absolutely loved the hanging scene, the way it was shot, at night with torches adding just the right amount of light. It reminded me of the bad old days in the Wild West, summary judgment and  execution. The look on Rick’s face was priceless, he’s thinking, I’m keeping the murderer of this woman’s husband alive, am I nuts?

I think the tensions and resentment between the different communities form a perfect route for the show to follow, I just hope they can keep turning the show back into the one I loved, I’ll give it 8 / 10

[queenanne]

19 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The other thing I forgot to mention is that I thought it was interesting in the opening scenes (credits) they showed a helicopter.

 

19 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I need to know who the barber/hairdresser is at the Sanctuary, that so many people can sport fresh, sharp haircuts and dye jobs.

 

When Maggie said "Hershel" it just made me cringe. Couldn't she have used "Hershel" for his middle name and maybe "Glenn" for his first name? Yeah, I know. Glenn is ancient history and his existence all but forgotten (apparently even by his wife) but anyway, the baby looks more like his father than his grandfather. Call me crazy, but if my husband and the father of my child were murdered, I kind of might think about naming the child after him.

Yes!!  I thought the helicopter was very promising.  

Also, no offense to anyone also named Hershel, but why would Maggie do that to a cute charming little bite of a baby??

i figured out that Ken got killed by the kick because of the large hoof print on his chest plus the fact that he did not turn; because I thought ‘if he doesn’t turn and no one comments on it, I think the characters have got some vaccination-splaining to do here.’

[OoohMaggie]

The hard edged show we need,