S03.E08: Off the Leash

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, jaync said:

Are Jeremy's sons twins?

No in the clips they showed last night Keon was labeled as 19 and the clip of Keatin from last year listed him as 21.

Edited October 4, 2018 by biakbiak

[jaync]

Thanks, biakbiak.

[dosodog]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

I think it's fair to say there is not now, never was and never will be a need for pink dog food, except in Kameron's mind. She's a pink candy coated individualist!

Even her tag line -- "I have heels higher that YOUR standards." Whose standards is she talking about? The viewers'? The whole thing is so wrong so wrong, it's right.

This got brought up last season, but!  I think there was some agreement that pink poop would be easier to find amongst fall leaves and so!  There's one positive to Sparkle Dog.

2 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

 

The thing that puts an asterisk next to the $200 debacle for me is that it was something that Leeanne told Cary off camera. Even Cary admitted that there was no malevolence in Leeanne's intent. Cary is the one who brought it on camera. She's going to lose all of her "friends" on this show with her rather pointless runtelldat strategy. I guess it is her way of staying relevant considering she has no real story line of her own and she and her gross husband are only on the show to drop "casual" tidbits about how much they paid for this, what designer brand that is, and so on. Can't stand her.

I have to give Cary a pass on runtelldat.  She told them this was her strategy. Flat out told them at the Smash party.

It's on everybody else if they tell Cary something they don't want out.  

But yup!  Based on her proclamation, I wouldn't tell her anything of importance nor share things that create strong bonds.

1 hour ago, Jel said:

I'll proudly take the blame! 

I loved the cupcake scene -- shove it in, spit it out. So simultaneously terrible and awesome.

The string quartet with only three strings! At the paint your poopy dog party! 

The dog food that was mistaken for human food, and set out too close to the food after Kam had made a point of talking about how everything had to be placed correctly because otherwise it would be a disaster...

The PINK DOG STROLLER and Kam's insistence that small dogs need to be in strollers (they do not).

100% pure awesomeness.

The stroller scene reminded me of Stupendous Man.  When Doso was a puppy, SM kept picking him up and carrying him, for several houses at a time and then putting him back down.

Because he's little and tires easily.....

Doso is a Malamute mix and SM could have passed for a Duck Dynasty relative and we walked just a block around the house.....

All I could do was nicely smirk and inwardly roll my eyes at my 6 foot guy bring concerned that a 15 minute walk would tire out the puppy.

I love how Kam doesn't melt down over things not being perfect.  Like 3 people instead of a quartet.  

[Jel]

36 minutes ago, dosodog said:

This got brought up last season, but!  I think there was some agreement that pink poop would be easier to find amongst fall leaves and so!  There's one positive to Sparkle Dog.

I have to give Cary a pass on runtelldat.  She told them this was her strategy. Flat out told them at the Smash party.

It's on everybody else if they tell Cary something they don't want out.  

But yup!  Based on her proclamation, I wouldn't tell her anything of importance nor share things that create strong bonds.

The stroller scene reminded me of Stupendous Man.  When Doso was a puppy, SM kept picking him up and carrying him, for several houses at a time and then putting him back down.

Because he's little and tires easily.....

Doso is a Malamute mix and SM could have passed for a Duck Dynasty relative and we walked just a block around the house.....

All I could do was nicely smirk and inwardly roll my eyes at my 6 foot guy bring concerned that a 15 minute walk would tire out the puppy.

I love how Kam doesn't melt down over things not being perfect.  Like 3 people instead of a quartet.  

That's so sweet, Dosodog, I love it.

As for Kam and her no melt downs -- Yes! I feel the same; she has extremely high standards that often go unmet, but then she just pretends it isn't happening, or something. There's something to be said for that I think.  Seriously. It's a lot better than me freaking out because I can't find the eighth matching soup spoon and the whole dinner is going to be RUINED now! I'm learning from Kam ;)

[Thumper]

Agree on Cary's runtelldat.  She told them she wan't going to hide anything this season!  

What did bug me about Cary was her saying her daughter was such a "flirt" because she wanted to play with the boys.   I know it's a "cute" thing to say and all, but why can't her daughter be friends with little boys without it having to be so boy-girl???   Ack.  Kids have so little time to be kids these days. 

[SunnyBeBe]

How old is Stephanie?  What grown asp woman says she can't discipline their child because, they can't bear to feel guilty?  WTH?  Forsaking your parental duties by not teaching the children proper behavior and helping them develop skills to discipline themselves is a crime. Well, it should be a crime.  It's all fun and games until the police and lawyers get involved, and that will come a little further down the road.  One of the sons didn't seem to have any respect for her at all.  Not good. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[bagger]

21 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

OMG...Brandi just called her girls bitches. I hope the adoption went through before this episode aired. 

TErri dubrow got crucified for calling his daughter a little bitch

[dosodog]

You have good points SunnyBeBe.  The older one pushes as far as he wants.  Stephanie does try in her Disney heroine kind of way.  And she does recognize that she worries more about them liking her than enforcing the boundries.

But I feel like Stephanie watches herself and grows from what she sees each season.   So I think there is a good possibility that she will improve. 

2 paragraphs about Stephanie and they were positive.  What has happened to me!?!

[LibertarianSlut]

6 hours ago, OnceSane said:

Is this the same program Tyra Banks did that has her claiming she's a "Harvard Business School graduate"?

That was 100% what I thought, but then I found this article on the Bravo website: https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/stephanie-hollman-shares-the-surprising-reason-why-husband-travis-hollman-is

Apparently Travis's stepdad's family helped found Harvard, so Travis is allowed to attend through the 1650 charter or something. She's claiming it's the real deal, but I'm a skeptic, and I would put money on the fact that he is not taking three years to get a Harvard MBA full stop. The article is very vague. Add the fact that they are using Travis's "education" to shill their more-likely-than-not bullshit employee college initiative, and something is rotten in Cambridge. 

Ooh, according to this article, Stephanie monitors Travis's Lyft rides at Harvard in order to ensure he's going to class and not partying. Cause no one could ever, ever hire a private car to go to a party. Or ride a bicycle. 

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

How old is Stephanie?  What grown asp woman says she can't discipline their child because, they can't bear to feel guilty?  WTH?  Forsaking your parental duties by not teaching the children proper behavior and helping them develop skills to discipline themselves is a crime. Well, it should be a crime.  It's all fun and games until the police and lawyers get involved, and that will come a little further down the road.  One of the sons didn't seem to have any respect for her at all.  Not good. 

I want to take this post out back, marry it, and have consensual sex with it.

[Panda Bear]

I liked D'Andra a lot last year, but I can't stand her now that I see her for who she really is: a spoiled rich girl who's used to always being the alpha (a role she likely played in her relationship with LeeAnne before they were Housewives). She truly can't stand that LeeAnne is the star of this show, so she's going to do everything she can to ice her out and embarrass her. But this strategy always backfires; she's just going to make LeeAnne the underdog and get her a lot of audience sympathy. It's the classic Jill Zarin maneuver.

[stcroix]

We see you D'Andra.  You have confidence issues because of Mommy Dearest and having a friend like LeAnne (who is THIRLLED to be your friend and looks up to you as royalty) gives you a boost.  Until LeAnne becomes more important than you in the show and then the knives come out.  Such a betrayal to question Rich's fidelity right on camera for the world to see!  If LeAnne was really your friend -and in your mind your equal- you'd have only had this conversation in private.  It finally makes sense why she was your maid of honor in your wedding, that confused me IF you were as high socially as it seemed.  I don't like LeAnne, but definitely don't like the snake she thought was her best friend.

[dosodog]

I'm kind of proud of LeeAnne. She's pretty much kept her cool.  So far rubs hands in malicious anticipation cause would it be RHOD without stuff getting broken?

D'Andra is just confusing to me.  What happened? She was so cool and adult last season.  

Editing?  

I've read about a supposed pact between Brandi and D'Andra over adderall and fat comments. 

The $200 secret?

Brandi subtly belittling LeeAnne to D'Andra every time they're together?

Did LeeAnne really tell D'Andra not to be friends with Brandi or just remind her of her experience of being Brandi's friend?

D'Andra's anger seems disproportionate. 

[princelina]

8 hours ago, jaync said:

Will there be a future trip to visit Cary's relatives in Denmark?

Haha it's a good thing I get along with my dad or I'd have to take all of my friends to Reading, PA in order to "understand him better" :D

 

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

How old is Stephanie?  What grown asp woman says she can't discipline their child because, they can't bear to feel guilty?  WTH?  Forsaking your parental duties by not teaching the children proper behavior and helping them develop skills to discipline themselves is a crime. Well, it should be a crime.  It's all fun and games until the police and lawyers get involved, and that will come a little further down the road.  One of the sons didn't seem to have any respect for her at all.  Not good. 

Very few of them SAY it, but it's a very common attitude these days.  

[yourmomiseasy]

20 hours ago, Lizzing said:

Gods help us if Brandi's kids ever get together with OC Gina's kids.  That might open a hellmouth.

This is the stuff of nightmares.

16 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

That was freaking hilarious! I'm glad they didn't edit that out. Speaking of Biscuit, I wish Stephanie would have brought her doggie Biscuit, love that dog!

The demise of D'Andra and LeeAnne's friendship makes me sad. They have been best friends for years and years. D'Andra is a stone cold bitch. You can tell LeeAnne is appalled that D'Andra is saying all this stuff about her relationship with Rich in front of her and the camera. LeeAnne should have shut her mouth about D's $200 bank balance because clearly D is not ever going to forget it and is going to make LeeAnne pay for it forever. These housewives shows do horrible things to people and their relationships. 

 

Wasn't that chick that was on season 1 LeAnne's really good friend from way back and they had a big falling out and aren't friends anymore too?  Seems like it might be a pattern with LeAnne.  D'Andra might be being bitchy about LeAnne's wedding situation, but LeAnne is a lot to take.

13 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

i also think Brandi is a horrible mother for the way she's treating those two little girls. They are clearly not the priority in her life right now, and it's affecting them. And, no Brandi, they're not "bitches." Maybe they're being brats cause of you, but they are your daughters, not bitches, and you are a sick bitch for calling them that on national TV. Calling a minor a bitch is the kind of thing adults whisper to each other in jest when no one is around to hear it. It's not something to be publicly preserved for infinity. I really think Brandi needs to get herself and her children off of reality TV. It's the last thing they need. What they do need is a behavioral therapist. 

 

I just want to point out that Brandi's kids were assholes long before she adopted Bruin.  The adoption might be negatively impacting them, but it isn't the cause of their horribleness.  

12 hours ago, Jel said:

I think it's fair to say there is not now, never was and never will be a need for pink dog food, except in Kameron's mind. She's a pink candy coated individualist!

Even her tag line -- "I have heels higher that YOUR standards." Whose standards is she talking about? The viewers'? The whole thing is so wrong so wrong, it's right.

That tag line makes me mad every week.  

12 hours ago, bosawks said:

Ironically, since I'm watching her show, Real HoWives of Dallas, I freely admit that my standards are not very high........

You have a point.  Maybe my weekly ire will fade if I keep this in mind.

 

Okay, so I have clearly gone wrong somewhere in my life.  My mom has the same dog stroller as Kameron.  I helped pick it out.  We got it so she could go black Friday shopping when she was a puppy.  I have also commissioned a watercolor portrait of my mom's dog and will eventually have them done of my dogs.  This is who I used and she does a fantastic job http://www.artisantails.com  Some of the paintings from the party were decent -- I think one of the kids in particular had a good one.

I enjoyed Rich joking about how many times he's been married.  It was funny to me even if it was kinda wrong.  I also noticed that his eye patch looks like a nice one that wouldn't be super itchy (a problem I had when wearing an eye patch).

I can't stand Brandi's kids.  They make me worry about my ability to not commit child abuse because I kind of want to throat punch them.  

Edited October 5, 2018 by yourmomiseasy

[Panda Bear]

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Wasn't that chick that was on season 1 LeAnne's really good friend from way back and they had a big falling out and aren't friends anymore too?  Seems like it might be a pattern with LeAnne.  D'Andra might be being bitchy about LeAnne's wedding situation, but LeAnne is a lot to take.

Tiffany and LeeAnne are still friends.

[bichonblitz]

It wasn't Tiffany. It was another lady with long dark hair like D'Andra and LeeAnne. They had a brutal fight. I only remember the lady was super wealthy and got caught spreading rumors about LeeAnne and LeeAnne went ballistic. 

[CharlizeCat]

I think her name was Marie.

[RHJunkie]

Stephanie's kids not listening to her is an issue and she needs to learn to be okay with having her kids not like her for short periods of time when she's making them accountable for bad behaviour. What I like about Stephanie is that she's being honest about her insecurities and weaknesses. I would guess that she's often been drawn to people whose strengths are her perceived weaknesses, like her husband Travis, and so she's leaned on him to do the things that she knew she wasn't good at. I like that she wants to stop relying on others to compensate for her weaknesses and instead try to be better. Getting her kids to listen to her isn't going to happen overnight but if she keeps at it, she'll get there. From what I can tell, her kids don't seem out of control and they aren't rude assholes to people - they seem like pretty normal kids to me so Travis' discipline seems to be effective. I hope that Stephanie can slowly build confidence in herself. Having her explain a bit of her past, I understand why she has such deep rooted insecurities but because she realizes that her past isn't a crutch to continue to be someone that she isn't completely fulfilled by, it makes it really easy to root for her growth.

LeeAnne crosses the line but D'Andra seems to be excessive in her need to punish LeeAnne. Why sound like you've addressed the issue at the party only to ignore her after? And why talk about missing her friendship when you're the one ignoring her calls, texts and in person at events? D'Andra's mom seems like a piece of work but seeing that conversation between them, the way D'Andra quietly accepted her mother throwing in the towel and handing the entire company over to her...it just made all of this seem like a spoiled child that threatened to run away so that she could get what she wanted. All this time I thought the crux of the issue was that working with her mother made her realize how poorly they communicate and how controlling her mother is and thought branching off from her mother would give her some autonomy and an opportunity to rebuild that relationship without the business between them. But nope, apparently that's not the case.

I enjoy Kam's pretentiousness when it's not directed at other people. I was amused at her trying to stuff an entire cupcake in her mother and struck by the thought that in Kam's mind, she probably thinks she's really wild, lol. The whole dog painting party and LeeAnne eating the dog biscuit...I thought the event was entertaining.

[walnutqueen]

8 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I can't stand Brandi's kids.  They make me worry about my ability to not commit child abuse because I kind of want to throat punch them.  

Ditto.  They NEED corporal punishment.  And I feel a need to deliver it.

Every damned time they are onscreen I get stabby.  Not something I'm proud of, but badly behaved children are a trigger for me.

[jennylauren123]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:12 PM, Mindthinkr said:

There was something about the meeting between D’Andra and her mother that just didn’t feel genuine. Scripted maybe for drama but nobody lost their perfect makeup. 

I have a hard time looking at this pair, with their makeup spackled on. In what world does that look good? I think they look awful, just awful. I cannot imagine walking around like that, with a virtual mask on. And both women are naturally pretty. Why not just tone it down a bit?

[Panda Bear]

6 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

It wasn't Tiffany. It was another lady with long dark hair like D'Andra and LeeAnne. They had a brutal fight. I only remember the lady was super wealthy and got caught spreading rumors about LeeAnne and LeeAnne went ballistic. 

Oh, yes, it was Marie indeed. Poor, shell-shocked Marie. LeeAnne does seem like a lot to take, but I do believe she's working on her anger issues. Maybe D'Andra is fed up with her at this point, which is fair, but she should say that and take a true break from her instead of spreading these passive-aggressive rumors. 

[dosodog]

Marie was thirsty.

And wore strange hair accessories. 

And told a story about LeeAnne drunk pooping herself.  On camera.  With glee.  Not LeeAnne. Marie had glee.  LeeAnne was just Incredible Hulk angry.

[Natalie68]

On 10/4/2018 at 10:23 AM, DFWGina said:

I am totally over the kids on the RHo____ shows.  Too many kids.  I don't want charity events either (a la season 1).

Can't these gals go out for happy hour?  A painting party without the kids?  Even D'Andra who doesn't really have kids had her college age husband's son in one scene.  

Dear Bravo - enough of the kids!!!!

I can cosign this all effing day long!  If I wanted to see kids I would choose other shows.

[stcroix]

The only child I do enjoy on this show is Zuri.  She seems like a low maintenance and sweet tempered little girl.  But I only need to see her in small doses.  All the rest can take a nap during taping ;)  Although I can't imagine what technique  Brandi could use to get her little hellions down...  Actually I think the youngest girl isn't as bad as the 9 yr old from what I've seen.  I think she's just learning bad habits from her.  Together they must be unbearable!

[RedInk]

I wonder if there is someone in this viewing audience who cares about Cary's kind of/somewhat fractured relationship with her father that sort of caused her some problems, but wasn't so bad overall. If there is, that person might also enjoy looking through old photos of the Copenhagen cousins. Stay tuned, that person.

Edited October 6, 2018 by RedInk

[pasdetrois]

Quote

Not something I'm proud of, but badly behaved children are a trigger for me.

Ineffectual, dim mothers who spend their days shopping, swilling booze, getting Botox, and hours in the hair/makeup chair, pretending on camera to be devoted moms, while the nannies raise the children, make me stabby. 

I look at D'Andra, weepy and pouting, then at real business women, and I know where business success lies.

I also think that behind the scenes the majority of the domestic relationships are in trouble.. Lots of going through the motions on-camera.

Edited October 6, 2018 by pasdetrois

[MinorL]

The “why isn’t LeeAnne married yet?” storyline is boring. Brandi starts in on it next week. Why does Brandi care? She can’t stand LeeAnne. 

I understand why LeeAnne’s panty liner is tired. 

[Slider]

On 10/4/2018 at 6:04 PM, Thumper said:

Agree on Cary's runtelldat.  She told them she wan't going to hide anything this season!  

Except she didn't run and tell LeeAnne - she had to ask.  Cary just wants to stir shit up, and picks and chooses what she shares and when.  It's not a good look.

[princelina]

On 10/6/2018 at 12:26 PM, MinorL said:

The “why isn’t LeeAnne married yet?” storyline is boring. Brandi starts in on it next week. Why does Brandi care? She can’t stand LeeAnne. 

I think you answered your own question - easy camera time while annoying an enemy and no other real effort involved!

12 hours ago, Slider said:

Except she didn't run and tell LeeAnne - she had to ask.  Cary just wants to stir shit up, and picks and chooses what she shares and when.  It's not a good look.

Agree!  I am of the opinion that talking about others behind their back is okay when done properly - sometimes you just need to vent to someone who knows what's going on and get it off your chest!  I actually think that's more healthy and conducive to good relationships than talking every little fucking thing out.  But of course it relies on the listener to have some sense and discretion.  It's a fine enough strategy for Cary to say "If you tell me something on camera I will repeat it when asked", but if she wants to actually have friends then she needs to realize that not all conversations - particularly those that are off camera in this situation - are fair game for blabbing.

[biakbiak]

13 hours ago, Slider said:

tell LeeAnne - she had to ask.  Cary just wants to stir shit up, and picks and chooses what she shares and when.  It's not a good look.

She didn’t seem to bring it up out of nowhere with other people either. None of which she told LeeAnn was also noteworthy enough to tell her. LeAnne was so weird asking like that.

[ghoulina]

sorry, wrong thread. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by ghoulina

[ladle]

I'm oddly impressed that Cary was able, on a weekday morning, to flip through photo albums with Zuri in such a leisurely way.  I have a similarly-aged child, and if we have time to stuff some food in her face, put her in something vaguely resembling clothes, and get all of us to school and work on time, I call it a win.

 

Maybe I'm doing everything wrong. 

[ladle]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:43 PM, whydoievencare said:

Those girls are atrocious and I say that as the mother of a kid who was an incredible challenge when she was growing up.

Oh man.  I try really hard not to judge the children on these shows because I'm sure it's hard to discipline a child on camera, and so much of it is editing, and if you spliced together a retrospective of my kid's worst moments I definitely wouldn't come off looking like mother of the year.  But, all that said: holy shit, those kids!!!!

[ladle]

On 10/5/2018 at 10:46 PM, RedInk said:

I wonder if there is someone in this viewing audience who cares about Cary's kind of/somewhat fractured relationship with her father that sort of caused her some problems

I always find it so distasteful when the housewives drag their parents onto these shows for a referendum on how they were wronged as children (cf. Tamra's mom; Bethenny's stepdad; Leanne's mom; Erika Jane's mom...).  Like yeah, maybe Cary's dad wasn't the best parent ever.  My dad wasn't either, but you don't see me broadcasting that to a national audience.  I just post about it anonymously on message boards, like a decent person.   

Edited October 13, 2018 by ladle

[RedInk]

19 hours ago, ladle said:

I always find it so distasteful when the housewives drag their parents onto these shows for a referendum on how they were wronged as children (cf. Tamra's mom; Bethenny's stepdad; Leanne's mom; Erika Jane's mom...).  Like yeah, maybe Cary's dad wasn't the best parent ever.  My dad wasn't either, but you don't see me broadcasting that to a national audience.  I just post about it anonymously on message boards, like a decent person.   

Well and it seems especially egregious here, because she's not even saying he did anything wrong. Just that he wasn't always who she needed him to be. What a shitty thing to broadcast. AND she's really using her dad to prop up her own husband and brag about him in contrast, while getting herself a little attention as a bonus. Even if she weren't completely boring, I'd like her the least.

[ShawnaLanne]

On 10/4/2018 at 8:43 AM, bichonblitz said:

That was freaking hilarious! I'm glad they didn't edit that out. Speaking of Biscuit, I wish Stephanie would have brought her doggie Biscuit, love that dog!

The demise of D'Andra and LeeAnne's friendship makes me sad. They have been best friends for years and years. D'Andra is a stone cold bitch. You can tell LeeAnne is appalled that D'Andra is saying all this stuff about her relationship with Rich in front of her and the camera. LeeAnne should have shut her mouth about D's $200 bank balance because clearly D is not ever going to forget it and is going to make LeeAnne pay for it forever. These housewives shows do horrible things to people and their relationships. 

 

The thing is, LeAnne knew exactly how much that would bother DeAndra. She knows how to bore a hole in a person. I think it's pretty obvious that DeAndra is very conscious of her image, I mean she's in the beauty industry, and everything is about how she looks. As her "best friend" LeAnne clearly knows this. Whether she said it off camera or on camera isn't the point. She said it.

 This was an attack, and DeAndra, much like LeAnne, will cut a bitch.

Edited October 17, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[Higgins]

That baby looks just like them. I don't understand this whole adoption story. None of makes sense.

[RedheadZombie]

On 10/18/2018 at 8:02 AM, Higgins said:

That baby looks just like them. I don't understand this whole adoption story. None of makes sense.

I think that Stephanie pulled strings to get this baby for Brandi, rather than someone who has been on the list. I don't think it was illegal, but I suspect it's unethical. Potential adopters will typically take neonates with even significant medical issues. The pool of adoptable babies is just that small - and that includes babies of any race or ethnicity.

I bet there are thousands of couples out there who would have taken Bruin. This isn't a case of an unwanted newborn who was handed to a couple because their hair colour matched and no one else wanted a redheaded baby. 

[ButterQueen]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:47 PM, Bronzedog said:

I have to applaud all of you who  made it through the hour.  I couldn't do it last year and hoped it had improved this year.  Nope.

I skipped last year, and tried this season...nope.  Leeanne just disgusts me.

[ButterQueen]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:28 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I think that Stephanie pulled strings to get this baby for Brandi, rather than someone who has been on the list. I don't think it was illegal, but I suspect it's unethical. Potential adopters will typically take neonates with even significant medical issues. The pool of adoptable babies is just that small - and that includes babies of any race or ethnicity.

I bet there are thousands of couples out there who would have taken Bruin. This isn't a case of an unwanted newborn who was handed to a couple because their hair colour matched and no one else wanted a redheaded baby. 

 

What strings could Stephanie pull?

[sasha206]

I have a hard time looking at LeeAnne and D'Andra.  Two otherwise beautiful women destroyed by the hair, the makeup, and D'Andra with the false eyelashes.  I wish they would get a makeover stat.

[RedheadZombie]

16 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

What strings could Stephanie pull?

Her connection to the man at the adoption agency.