JD and Abbie: Captured Before the Rapture

[FizzyPuff]

I don’t know why JD & Abbie are even going to a new church when JB has his own church in their garage,basement wherever. Don’t they want to hear JB talk about himself and his 19 kids, Michelle and Jesus obviously, mainly himself though. JB & Jesus were pretty much the same right? Jesus could read, JB can read, Jesus believed in God, JB believes in God, Jesus was perfect, JB thinks he’s perfect, JB is practically the second coming 😉

[Absolom]

6 minutes ago, Puffin said:

I don’t know why JD & Abbie are even going to a new church when JB has his own church in their garage,basement wherever.

JB hasn't had the home church in about four years.  It fell apart after Joshgate 1.  It hadn't been held in their home for years before that.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Absolom

[Temperance]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

JB hasn't had the home church in about four years.  It fell apart after Joshgate 1.  It hadn't been held in their home for years before that.

Was the home church just JB officiating services in his own home? Didn't they always have a church outside the home?

Edited April 29, 2019 by Temperance

[FizzyPuff]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

JB hasn't had the home church in about four years.  It fell apart after Joshgate 1.  It hadn't been held in their home for years before that.

I didn’t know that, I just assumed JB would carry on his church regardless. So where do the Duggars go to church then? 

[Temperance]

1 minute ago, Puffin said:

I didn’t know that, I just assumed JB would carry on his church regardless. So where do the Duggars go to church then? 

I believe JB and Michelle  and their kids go to Kendra's father's church. 

[Absolom]

After the trouble with the elders and Josh, they began home churching and added like-minded people (according to them).  As their church grew, they moved to the airport house, then a warehouse, and possibly a second warehouse, and then disbanded.  They currently attend a small IFB church pastored by Kendra's father. 

[FizzyPuff]

8 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I believe JB and Michelle  and their kids go to Kendra's father's church. 

7 minutes ago, Absolom said:

After the trouble with the elders and Josh, they began home churching and added like-minded people (according to them).  As their church grew, they moved to the airport house, then a warehouse, and possibly a second warehouse, and then disbanded.  They currently attend a small IFB church pastored by Kendra's father. 

Interesting, Thanks, you learn something new everyday hey, even if it isn’t very useful.

[realityfan26]

33 minutes ago, Absolom said:

After the trouble with the elders and Josh, they began home churching and added like-minded people (according to them).  As their church grew, they moved to the airport house, then a warehouse, and possibly a second warehouse, and then disbanded.  They currently attend a small IFB church pastored by Kendra's father. 

I wonder if Kendra's dad waits for the Duggars to begin his service. I hope he doesn't adjust for Duggar time. 

[Sew Sumi]

I've wondered if the Seewalds followed the Duggars to the Caldwells' church. Given Ben's Calvinist bent, they may be churching elsewhere. They've never shared church shots like the others, so who knows for sure?

[BrianJ1962]

11 minutes ago, realityfan26 said:

I wonder if Kendra's dad waits for the Duggars to begin his service. I hope he doesn't adjust for Duggar time. 

Has Duggar time ever caused any trouble with them traveling on airlines?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Puffin said:

Interesting, Thanks, you learn something new everyday hey, even if it isn’t very useful.

Well, you now know some place to avoid on Sundays if you're ever in NW Arkansas.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

I believe JB and Michelle  and their kids go to Kendra's father's church. 

For some unknown reason, Kendra's father has kind of seemed like a Jim Bob groupie. I don't remember exactly what I read about this any more. But I remember getting the sense that he sucked up to JB and the Duggars from the time he arrived in Arkansas -- probably because of their fame, I suppose. Figured it would rub off on him, maybe. He tried to run for state office the way JB had. But unlike JB back in the day he didn't win his race. 

Jim Bob would definitely want to go to a church where the pastor was a Jim Bob toadie. 

[Albanyguy]

30 minutes ago, BrianJ1962 said:

Has Duggar time ever caused any trouble with them traveling on airlines?

To my knowledge, they've never missed a flight because they're running on Duggar Time. I think that they ARE capable of getting their act together and getting somewhere on time when they absolutely have to. Although I'm sure that they come running into the terminal at the last minute and cause a great deal of trouble for airport personnel, especially if there's a crowd of people or a bunch of cameras to show off for.

[fonfereksglen]

5 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

To my knowledge, they've never missed a flight because they're running on Duggar Time. I think that they ARE capable of getting their act together and getting somewhere on time when they absolutely have to. Although I'm sure that they come running into the terminal at the last minute and cause a great deal of trouble for airport personnel, especially if there's a crowd of people or a bunch of cameras to show off for.

Have they ever left a kid behind at Christmas?  😁

[Zella]

Are they living in Centerton? 

[Sew Sumi]

The last time I checked JD's RE records (January or thereabouts), he had a place either in Springdale or Fayetteville. However, it seemed to be on a large lot off the beaten path. Does that help any with proximity to Centerton?

[Zella]

Thanks, @Sew Sumi! That seems a little odd to me--that he'd go to church in Centerton if he was living down there. That's a good 30-40 minute drive (possibly even more if he is a bit out of town), and there are definitely Baptist churches that would be closer. It would seem less weird to me if they lived in Bentonville since Centerton is right next to it.

It also doesn't really seem like something you stumble across. Centerton is one of those towns that people live in to conveniently commute, but I'd be damned if I could think of anything else associated with the town. Not that it wouldn't necessarily be a nice place to live, but it just doesn't seem like the sort of place someone would go out of their way to go to.

I honestly really only know of its existence/location from weather alerts when they're reeling off the path of storms and telling you to take cover. . . . 

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

JB hasn't had the home church in about four years.  It fell apart after Joshgate 1.  It hadn't been held in their home for years before that.

But does that mean that they can't pick up the pieces and start holding personal services in their own home again at any time the Holy Spirit feels compelled to lay it on their hearts (or they decide the heat is off them and they can get away with it)? Is there any group or anything approaching general acceptance which can make decisions on this type of question?

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

JB hasn't had the home church in about four years.  It fell apart after Joshgate 1.  It hadn't been held in their home for years before that.

But does that mean that they can't pick up the pieces and start holding personal services in their own home again at any time the Holy Spirit feels compelled to lay it on their hearts

They can do what JB wants to do.  I was merely talking about what they have done and are currently doing.  

[GeeGolly]

10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I've wondered if the Seewalds followed the Duggars to the Caldwells' church. Given Ben's Calvinist bent, they may be churching elsewhere. They've never shared church shots like the others, so who knows for sure?

If Ben's few Tweets are any indication, I'm guessing he home churches. He thinks very highly of his theological knowledge. 

[Minivanessa]

9 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

But does that mean that they can't pick up the pieces and start holding personal services in their own home again at any time the Holy Spirit feels compelled to lay it on their hearts (or they decide the heat is off them and they can get away with it)? Is there any group or anything approaching general acceptance which can make decisions on this type of question?

I'm taking my answer over to the religion topic.

[madpsych78]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:00 PM, Churchhoney said:

For some unknown reason, Kendra's father has kind of seemed like a Jim Bob groupie. I don't remember exactly what I read about this any more. But I remember getting the sense that he sucked up to JB and the Duggars from the time he arrived in Arkansas -- probably because of their fame, I suppose. Figured it would rub off on him, maybe. He tried to run for state office the way JB had. But unlike JB back in the day he didn't win his race. 

Jim Bob would definitely want to go to a church where the pastor was a Jim Bob toadie. 

Perhaps, but no in-laws reach the level of ultimate JB Groupie like Dwain Swanson.

[Churchhoney]

6 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Perhaps, but no in-laws reach the level of ultimate JB Groupie like Dwain Swanson.

Yeah. I think Caldwell's a little savvier of a person than Swanson. Caldwell was more of a groupie in the past, though, I'm pretty sure. It seems he thought Jim Bob could help his political ambitions, too, but he wasn't able to make a go of that. So I wonder if his Duggar fervor hasn't cooled somewhat over the years, since it didn't get him what he thought it woudl get him. Swanson is still in the honeymoon phase. 

[JoanArc]

41 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah. I think Caldwell's a little savvier of a person than Swanson. Caldwell was more of a groupie in the past, though, I'm pretty sure. It seems he thought Jim Bob could help his political ambitions, too, but he wasn't able to make a go of that. So I wonder if his Duggar fervor hasn't cooled somewhat over the years, since it didn't get him what he thought it woudl get him. Swanson is still in the honeymoon phase. 

So many men gave Jim Bob a piece of their heart.

[Minivanessa]

32 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah. I think Caldwell's a little savvier of a person than Swanson. Caldwell was more of a groupie in the past, though, I'm pretty sure. It seems he thought Jim Bob could help his political ambitions, too, but he wasn't able to make a go of that. So I wonder if his Duggar fervor hasn't cooled somewhat over the years, since it didn't get him what he thought it woudl get him. Swanson is still in the honeymoon phase. 

Wasn't there a similar dynamic involving Ben's dad?

IIRC Ben's dad drove them quite a distance so they could attend church with the Duggars, and therefore Ben could meet his dream fundie girl Jessa. And around the time Ben was courting/marrying Jessa, Mr. Seewald Senior (Mike?) posted these long rambling fierce fundie sermons/essays online. But no close relationship seems to have sprung up between Ben's dad and JB. Maybe Mr. Seewald Senior harbored some ideas of getting famous in fundie circles by hooking onto the Duggar fame train, but that went nowhere, fast.

I don't know if Mike Seewald still posts long fierce fundie rants online, or if his ardor has cooled. I also wonder what impact Joshgate had on Ben's parents and siblings in terms of their attitudes toward the Duggar parents. 

I just realized we're in the JD and Abbie topic. Abbie's dad is older than Caldwell and Swanson. I wonder if he harbors any ambitions for personal advancement that he hopes to fulfill via the Duggar connection. From what I've read he seems to be one of the IBLP crowd but I don't know if he's a JB fan.

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, JoanArc said:

So many men gave Jim Bob a piece of their heart.

Okay, so now I'm picturing Jim Bob dressed up like Janis Joplin with the hair and the glasses and the maxidress. Singing.

"Take another little piece of my heart now, baby.....come on, come on, come on, come on, take it!!!"

Hallucinatory.

14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Edited May 3, 2019 by Churchhoney

[jmt111]

On 4/30/2019 at 6:30 AM, GeeGolly said:

If Ben's few Tweets are any indication, I'm guessing he home churches. He thinks very highly of his theological knowledge. 

Do home churches get tax exempt status, like regular churches?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, jmt111 said:

Do home churches get tax exempt status, like regular churches?

Yeah, basically. Anybody can start a church. The group of people who form the church have the right to ordain or commission somebody their pastor -- on any grounds they want to use. 

There are various rules the IRS can come after you about, though -- like you calling something a donation to the church or your personal "parsonage allowance" (tax-excluded income to pay for your housing) and them calling it your salary and requiring you to pay self-employment taxes on it, for example. Lots of IRS disputes in this area.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Gemma Violet]

48 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Anybody can start a church. 

Yeah, and to prove that, John Oliver started an actual church: Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption.  Check out the hilarious Youtubes.

I know in the Duggar religion the wife has to submit to the husband, but I wish Abbie & JD would have settled in Abbie's Oklahoma home town.  I'm chomping at the bit to see more Duggars move away and that was a missed opportunity. 

[ginger90]

[galaxychaser]

Her eyebrows yikes!

[bigskygirl]

What a joy to live life together in love! Seriously... And why capitalize 6 MONTHS. Do they not realize a lot of couples have been married for six months before. You are not all that special because you have been married 6 MONTHS.

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

What a joy to live life together in love! Seriously... And why capitalize 6 MONTHS. Do they not realize a lot of couples have been married for six months before. You are not all that special because you have been married 6 MONTHS.

My guess is that they're so thrilled to be on their own and able to have private, one-on-one physical -- and mental and emotional! -- contact with another person of their choice whenever they want it, that they walk around in a (for now) permanent hormonal haze of bliss. Those huge smiles are probably never off their faces. .... 

But, of course, being also brainwashed, they attribute the blissed-out hormonal-haze euphoria to the Gothard system that -- so their parents told them -- is responsible for delivering them into this happy state.

I would bet real money that they truly believe people who come to coupledom by other, non-Jim-Bob-approved routes don't get to have the blissed-out feeling they're having....or have it but only fleetingly before they descend into apathy or misery or some other Satan-tinged state.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Churchhoney

[bigskygirl]

5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

My guess is that they're so thrilled to be on their own and able to have private, one-on-one physical -- and mental and emotional! -- contact with another person of their choice whenever they want it, that they walk around in a (for now) permanent hormonal haze of bliss. Those huge smiles are probably never off their faces. .... 

But, of course, being also brainwashed, they attribute the blissed-out hormonal-haze euphoria to the Gothard system that -- or so their parents told them -- delivered them into this state.

I would bet real money that they truly believe people who come to coupledom by other, non-Jim-Bob-approved routes don't get to have the blissed-out feeling they're having....or have it but only fleetingly before they descend into misery. 

Don't you mean God's choice and/or parent's choice.

And obviously they have not taken a long hard look at Deredick/Jill and Smugs because they are not so happy in married life. I would rather be single forever than being married to someone like Jill, Deredick, or Smugs.

Edited May 3, 2019 by bigskygirl

[galaxychaser]

10 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

What a joy to live life together in love! Seriously... And why capitalize 6 MONTHS. Do they not realize a lot of couples have been married for six months before. You are not all that special because you have been married 6 MONTHS.

It’s 6 months for jd to not share a room with 10 other people, eat a meal in peace, new clothes etc. it’s huge for him.

[bigskygirl]

1 minute ago, galaxychaser said:

It’s 6 months for jd to not share a room with 10 other people, eat a meal in peace, new clothes etc. it’s huge for him.

You forgot about finally being able to fool around with someone. It is sad to think a person can be happy in marriage because they are finally free from the limits their own parents put on them.

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Don't you mean God's choice and/or parent's choice.

And obviously they have not taken a long hard look at Deredick/Jill and Smugs because they are not so happy in married life. I would rather be single forever than being married to someone like Jill, Deredick, or Smugs.

i think a championship-level ability to ignore facts is a major component in a person's capacity to remain in Gothardom/Duggardom into adulthood and not run screaming into the night with your worldly possessions crammed into a knapsack!   ;  )

[bigskygirl]

To be honest about it I think I could not marry any of the Duggars because having them for in-laws would cause me to drink, and no, I do not touch alcohol. I thought my in-laws were bad, but the Duggars take the cake frosting and all.

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

To be honest about it I think I could not marry any of the Duggars because having them for in-laws would cause me to drink, and no, I do not touch alcohol. I thought my in-laws were bad, but the Duggars take the cake frosting and all.

Big amen.

[mynextmistake]

Have we discussed this yet? Abbie got her nursing license transferred from Oklahoma to Arkansas in late January. I don’t think she would do that unless she’s at least entertaining the possibility of continuing to work. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, someone unearthed that back when it originally happened. However, we have no evidence that she's followed through and gotten a job. 

[mynextmistake]

4 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, someone unearthed that back when it originally happened. However, we have no evidence that she's followed through and gotten a job. 

Still, it’s interesting! And I looked at the website for their church and it seems pretty mainstream Baptist. The congregation includes women who work (and wear pants!) and divorce is discussed in a pretty matter-of-fact way. Most of the pastoral staff have only two or three kids, and there’s no anti-birth-control language in their “what we believe” section. I mean, they’re still antichoice and anti-gay, but it seems more like Cross Church than a crazy IBLP place. 

[Zella]

Their choice of church is very interesting to me since it seems out-of-the-way. I'm reading it as an intentional way to put some small distance between them and the rest of the family.  

[Minivanessa]

23 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Have we discussed this yet? Abbie got her nursing license transferred from Oklahoma to Arkansas in late January. I don’t think she would do that unless she’s at least entertaining the possibility of continuing to work. 

I agree that if she's transferred the license she hasn't closed the door forever on taking paid work as an LPN. She probably did the transfer when she handled the other paperwork required after moving to Arkansas and getting married - name and address change on her records and accounts (Social Security, for one), getting an Arkansas driver's license, registering to vote, etc. 

She studied and worked to get that license, and IMO no reasonable person would just throw it away. Even if she has no immediate plans to work as an LPN, it makes sense to keep her licensure current and active in the state where she now lives. 

@mynextmistake, it is interesting that JD and Abbie would join that church. It doesn't look like it's the closest church to where they live (AFAIK), and as you said it doesn't sound like it's run by IFB or IBLP doctrinaires. As @Zella posted, the location may put some physical distance between them and the Duggar herd.

Both JD and Abbie were raised by parents who are IBLP adherents. IMO their choice of church by itself doesn't mean they've abandoned their Gothardite roots, but it does mean that at church they are mixing with some people who aren't part of the IBLP crowd.

[Absolom]

11 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I mean, they’re still antichoice and anti-gay, but it seems more like Cross Church than a crazy IBLP place. 

Yes, as I posted before it's a regular SBC church.

[mynextmistake]

20 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I agree that if she's transferred the license she hasn't closed the door forever on taking paid work as an LPN. She probably did the transfer when she handled the other paperwork required after moving to Arkansas and getting married - name and address change on her records and accounts (Social Security, for one), getting an Arkansas driver's license, registering to vote, etc. 

She studied and worked to get that license, and IMO no reasonable person would just throw it away. Even if she has no immediate plans to work as an LPN, it makes sense to keep her licensure current and active in the state where she now lives. 

@mynextmistake, it is interesting that JD and Abbie would join that church. It doesn't look like it's the closest church to where they live (AFAIK), and as you said it doesn't sound like it's run by IFB or IBLP doctrinaires. As @Zella posted, the location may put some physical distance between them and the Duggar herd.

Both JD and Abbie were raised by parents who are IBLP adherents. IMO their choice of church by itself doesn't mean they've abandoned their Gothardite roots, but it does mean that at church they are mixing with some people who aren't part of the IBLP crowd.

It’s also been a full six months without any announcement of a blessing. Take that for what you will. 

[Albanyguy]

Many of my family members and their friends are in the nursing profession and from what I've seen, almost all nurses will keep their licenses up to date, even if they have no immediate plans to work in the field. You never know what the future will bring and you may need that license someday. Abbie may be perfectly happy as a SAHM and may never want to hold down a job again, but still feel that it's better to have her license ready just in case her circumstances change. Since she has a little more experience in the working world than most of the Duggars, maybe she's realistic enough to sense that the TLC gravy train won't last forever and that Daddy Jim Bob isn't going to support them all indefinitely. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Albanyguy said:

Many of my family members and their friends are in the nursing profession and from what I've seen, almost all nurses will keep their licenses up to date, even if they have no immediate plans to work in the field. You never know what the future will bring and you may need that license someday. Abbie may be perfectly happy as a SAHM and may never want to hold down a job again, but still feel that it's better to have her license ready just in case her circumstances change. Since she has a little more experience in the working world than most of the Duggars, maybe she's realistic enough to sense that the TLC gravy train won't last forever and that Daddy Jim Bob isn't going to support them all indefinitely. 

All that makes a lot of sense.

And having the tv cash has really blinded the Duggars to the fact that life with a ton of kids and one working parent is a rough slog. Even most other people who've drunk the Gothard Kool Aid have learned that from experience by now, I'd guess. They've had a cushion that hardly any other families from Gothardom or the other patriarchal cults have enjoyed. So it's easier for them to keep living in the illusion. 

[Minivanessa]

I think that keeping your license in place is typical for any kind of profession/occupation, from plumbers to nurses, lawyers, accountants, doctors, electricians, engineers, etc.

Those licenses were acquired after a lot of education, training, and sweat. Unless you discover that you absolutely hate that line of work, IMO no reasonable person would just toss the license away when their life changes and they aren't working at the time. (Heck, I've retired from the profession I practiced for a few decades, but my license is still in good standing, on inactive status, and eligible for immediate activation - and I jump through the annual paperwork hoops to keep it that way.)

I don't read much into Abbie's transferring her license, beyond her being a reasonable person who doesn't want to trash an occupational license she earned by investing months of education and training into it. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Jeeves

[lookeyloo]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I think that keeping your license in place is typical for any kind of profession/occupation, from plumbers to nurses, lawyers, accountants, doctors, electricians, engineers, etc.

Those licenses were acquired after a lot of education, training, and sweat. Unless you discover that you absolutely hate that line of work, IMO no reasonable person would just toss the license away when their life changes and they aren't working at the time. (Heck, I've retired from the profession I practiced for a few decades, but my license is still in good standing, on inactive status, and eligible for immediate activation - and I jump through the annual paperwork hoops to keep it that way.)

I don't read much into Abbie's transferring her license, beyond her being a reasonable person who doesn't want to trash an occupational license she earned by investing months of education and training into it. 

Agree - I am retired but keep my social work license.  I have to do continuing education (which I enjoy - always learn a thing or two) and pay a few bucks, but, I worked hard for it, used it when I had a career, and am going to keep it for as long as I can do the continuing education.