S08.E07: A Birth-day and a Birthday

[doodlebug]

30 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Thanks for your perspective Doodlebug.  So, what's the best plan for these ladies who desperately want home births? Call the midwife earlier?

No, it's don't have a homebirth without a qualified attendant and good prenatal care.  Many regular doctors and CNM's will provide prenatal care even if the woman is planning to stay home for the birth. Most of them won't actually come to the house for the birth, though. Of course, the birth is the most crucial part of the process; so my best advice would be to use a board certified practitioner and deliver in a licensed maternity facility.  Expecting anyone, especially a direct entry midwife whose training and experience are simply not anywhere close to the level of a CNM or MD, to not only provide all prenatal care but then to come to your home and spend 10-15 or more hours in constant vigilance over you and your child is expecting far too much of any one person.  Most babies delivered at home are healthy in spite of the circumstances, not because of them.

BTW, I've heard from multiple people in attendance at home births that lay midwives do not plan to be present for the labor, they expect to be called and come out an hour or two before the birth.  If they are called and come out and delivery is not imminent, they will often go back home after chastising the family for wasting their time.  You are not going to find a lay midwife who is willing to stay at your home from the moment you think something is happening until it actually does unless it is somebody like Jill.  Average labor for a first baby is 12-16 hours from the time things really start happening.  There can be a normal prodromal period of labor up to 24 hours prior to that and it is normal.

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

Till to this day they still have the confetti all over the living room. I loved the line looks like a newborn 3 months old.

We had confetti at a concert YEARS ago in our venue.  It was 2010.  We STILL find that stuff and our venue is cleaned daily.  

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, saylubee said:

Meagan is Austin’s sister.  The midwife was named as Lucy Ferguson in an earlier episode.  She wasn’t mentioned nor did I see a glimpse of her during the first 19 hours.

She was shown doing a Doppler reading before Jilly Muffin made her comments about Joy's vitals.

eta: just saw the screenshots. That was definitely the midwife. Now, the midwife could have arrived at Hour 19, and TLC could have done some creative editing to make it look like she was there sooner (as presented). I suppose we will never know the truth of the matter.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Guest]

When Jennifer said she was the only kid to know the baby's gender because she was (previously?) "in Joy's buddy system"...why is that even still a factor when Joy doesn't even live there anymore? I get that that means Joy raised Jennifer before she got married, but why is she still considered a leader to a whole cohort of siblings years after moving out? Why are they continuing to foster the idea of mini families and quasi-tribalism among siblings?

Also, having "special" older siblings that you keep "special" secrets for is probably a dynamic JB & Michelle and the elder siblings want to discourage after your older bother was caught molesting your sisters.....not the best optics considering their history. Although at this point, all the kids left in house probably have zero memory or weren't even born yet while Josh living there.

Lauren will be able to do her weird baby voice porn star post-marital orgasms without any witnesses in that drafty murder house.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Guest

[SabineElisabeth]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

Because loosing a pregnancy is a sensitive subject, I say this carefully...

I believe Jill was monitoring Jubilee also. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that Michelle talked about how Jill heard the heartbeat a few days prior etc.  Maybe Jubilee would've passed away anyway, no one will ever know and certainly WE will never know.  But Jill was involved with that pregnancy also.  Jill was much younger and was just "monitoring" because she had attended some births and was interesting in being a midwife.  I hope Michelle didn't depend on Jill to monitor anything.  Michelle was super high risk.  Maybe Jill was just listening to the heartbeat and not being used to actually "check up" on the baby.  

Anyway...just an observation about Jill...

When Michelle had the ultrasound during which it was discovered Jubilee had no heartbeat, Michelle and JB seemed to have had no idea going into it that anything might be wrong.  Only seeing the one visit with the ultrasound, it's impossible to know if she was receiving regular medical care, but she was on that day, it appeared to me, having a prenatal visit with an actual medical professional present, the impetus for which was not her thinking something was amiss.  I am pretty sure that there was zero expectation that Jill was in any way responsible for Michelle's care during that pregnancy;  my understanding of that situation is that she was interested in becoming a midwife, her mother was pregnant, so it was just a chance to practice, basically.  

There also seems to be a pervasive perception that Michelle is anti-medical care, when it fact, we've seen her seek out medical care on many occasions, and not just in emergency situations like a home birth going bad.  To me, home births seem risky as hell, but I concede that wanting to have them is not exactly equal to one being against appropriate medical care, period, either.

[Marigold]

20 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

When Michelle had the ultrasound during which it was discovered Jubilee had no heartbeat, Michelle and JB seemed to have had no idea going into it that anything might be wrong.  Only seeing the one visit with the ultrasound, it's impossible to know if she was receiving regular medical care, but she was on that day, it appeared to me, having a prenatal visit with an actual medical professional present, the impetus for which was not her thinking something was amiss.  I am pretty sure that there was zero expectation that Jill was in any way responsible for Michelle's care during that pregnancy;  my understanding of that situation is that she was interested in becoming a midwife, her mother was pregnant, so it was just a chance to practice, basically.  

There also seems to be a pervasive perception that Michelle is anti-medical care, when it fact, we've seen her seek out medical care on many occasions, and not just in emergency situations like a home birth going bad.  To me, home births seem risky as hell, but I concede that wanting to have them is not exactly equal to one being against appropriate medical care, period, either.

Oh definitely. She was a child. Jill was most likely informally practicing, I hope.  

It just jumped out at me that Jill has been involved with a lot of pregnancy complications!  You'd think she would be a little more cautious due to seeing so much trauma, ya know?  She had complications with herself twice, Jessa, now Joy and she was checking Jubilee's heartbeat.  The midwife who trained her has a sketchy past and lost a baby or two? 

Jill might want to re-evaluate her training. 

[jcbrown]

5 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Oh definitely. She was a child. Jill was most likely informally practicing, I hope.  

It just jumped out at me that Jill has been involved with a lot of pregnancy complications!  You'd think she would be a little more cautious due to seeing so much trauma, ya know?  She had complications with herself twice, Jessa, now Joy and she was checking Jubilee's heartbeat.  The midwife who trained her has a sketchy past and lost a baby or two? 

Jill might want to re-evaluate her "training."

Fixed it for you.

Anyone with a scrap of humility or self-awareness might notice that she is not very good at her supposed calling but such a person would not be a Duggar.

[Marigold]

Just now, jcbrown said:

Fixed it for you.

Anyone with a scrap of humility or self-awareness might notice that she is not very good at her supposed calling but such a person would not be a Duggar.

Hahahahaha!     Good point.!!!!! 

You summed up what I was thinking about Jill.  In plain English, that girl has been involved in A LOT of birth disasters/close calls. 

[Adeejay]

7 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

When Jennifer said she was the only kid to know the baby's gender because she was (previously?) "in Joy's buddy system"...why is that even still a factor when Joy doesn't even live there anymore? I get that that means Joy raised Jennifer before she got married, but why is she still considered a leader to a whole cohort of siblings years after moving out?

 

Jill was sister-mom to Joy, James and Jennifer.  I believe she has more maternal feelings for those three than she does for Izzy and Sam. Jessa on the other hand, is the complete opposite. I don't think she could pick Justin and Jordan out of a lineup, but she really seems to love her boys. 

I just can’t get over the fact that Austin claimed to be “exhausted and thought it was time to get the baby out.” His wife could have died, but he was the one who was “discouraged and exhausted.” I can’t stand him!  Why oh why did Jim Bob allow Joy to marry this POS?  This could have ended badly.  I hope it was traumatic enough to make Joy think twice before having another any time soon.  But, who am I kidding; she is probably pregnant again.   

Edited September 5, 2018 by Adeejay

[Minivanessa]

4 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

Jill was sister-mom to Joy, James and Jennifer.  I believe she has more maternal feeling for those three than she does for Izzy and Sam. Jessa on the other hand, is the complete opposite. I don't think she could pick Justin and Jordan out of a line out, but she really seems to love her boys. 

I just can’t get over the fact that Austin claimed to be “exhausted and thought it was time to get the baby out.” His wife could have died, but he was the one who was “discouraged and exhausted.” I can’t stand him!  Why oh why did Jim Bob allow Joy to marry this POS?  

JB and Austin's dad are tight. Fellow fundies/Gothardites, admirers of the Pearls and their methods. They'll never admit it but I'm sure JB and Mr F. agreed about this marriage a long time ago. A sealed deal. I hope Austin went along with it for the reason that he really likes Joy. Joy strikes me as passive enough to pretty much go along with what her parents tell her. At least they married her off to somebody young with some kind of work ethic, although IMO he's a cold controlling religious nut. And, an a**hole.

[mythoughtis]

11 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

Jill was sister-mom to Joy, James and Jennifer.  I believe she has more maternal feeling for those three than she does for Izzy and Sam. Jessa on the other hand, is the complete opposite. I don't think she could pick Justin and Jordan out of a line out, but she really seems to love her boys. 

I just can’t get over the fact that Austin claimed to be “exhausted and thought it was time to get the baby out.” His wife could have died, but he was the one who was “discouraged and exhausted.” I can’t stand him!  Why oh why did Jim Bob allow Joy to marry this POS?  This could have ended badly.  I hope it was traumatic enough to make Joy think twice before having another any time soon.  But, who am I kidding; she is probably pregnant again.   

I could swear that I heard Austin refer to Joy being exhausted and that once they found out it was breech, that was it.  He commented that both would have preferred to have it natural, but that wasn’t how it worked out. That’s a natural way to feel.  You have to remember- Austin is a YOUNG male, with little experience with women in labor / except when transporting one to the hospital.  He’s never seen someone labor for hours in pain before.  He’s not JB.  I’m cutting him slack on this one. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by mythoughtis

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Squirrely said:

I cringed at this too! I'm not a huge germaphobe, but I'm pretty structured and obsessive about food prep. That package could have been sneezed on, stepped on, dropped on the floor of the warehouse and/or store, etc. Clean the counter and use it, or use a clean plate or tray. 

Don't get me started. lol  I recently discovered that I do something that I don't think most people do. I noticed that chefs on tv don't do it, but.....when I'm cooking meat in a skillet, after the meat starts to brown, I then take the utensil and wash it with soap and water, dry then return to meat. I sometimes do this twice to make sure that my utensil doesn't contaminate the cooked meat. To me it makes sense.  I was recently told that this is not required. Hmmm....

Do you think that the Duggar  sisters and sisters-in-law will transition to birthing centers or hospitals anytime soon?  Jinger and Kendra may be leading the way.  So, who will be next? Will they eventually let go of home births? 

Edited September 4, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Adeejay]

39 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I could swear that I heard Austin refer to Joy being exhausted and that once they found out it was breech, that was it.  

So, it took him 19 hours to realize that his wife was exhausted, even though she kept saying that she couldn't breathe and was asking Meghan to breathe for her?!

[madpsych78]

9 hours ago, Magoo said:

Poor Joy - so pregnant, so tired, so...amazingly snarky.  On the baby's name:  "We don't want anyone else's opinion, (irritably) why would we want anyone else's opinion?"  Austin: "uh...we'll say it nicer than that though..." Also snapping, "I don't know Lauren, so I don't know if she's neat or not."  She wanted nothing to do with the hoards of Duggars, nothing to do with a camera in her face, nothing to do with nothing.  She was just not having it.  I know she was exhausted, and I felt badly for her, but I have to admit I was laughing at her get-out-of-my-face-you-fuckers attitude.

Okay, I have to say I LOVED Joy this episode. Way to not keep sweet! Also, it's interesting to me that she is not as close to Lauren as she is to Kendra. Granted, I think Kendra grew up in Arkansas whereas Lauren recently moved there, but I think it is also in part that Kendra seems very likable whereas Lauren is more standoffish. Lauren reminds me of Anna. 

[kokapetl]

The enchiladas were cooked in the oven, and were intended to be reheated in the oven as well. I think the risk of dangerous bacterial contamination from the contact with the exterior of the tortilla packet is low enough to be acceptable. Consider the hygiene of opening the tortilla packet and immediately reaching in and grabbing them. Everyone does that. 

Not that I think the Duggars aren’t dirty. Jessa constantly looks like she’s just finished a shift at KFC.

Edited September 4, 2018 by kokapetl

[Chicklet]

I totally forgot about this. A FIRST and I am oddly proud of myself to not have polluted my Monday evening with the spawn of Duggar.

[graefin]

Well, I haven't found Josiah's house yet, but I did find that "spooky" house that Jill and Jessa toured a while back while claiming that they were looking to upgrade their housing:

https://www.trulia.com/p/ar/springdale/5292-n-graham-rd-springdale-ar-72762--2108047062

Looks like JB paid a pretty penny for it.

[louannems]

6 minutes ago, graefin said:

Well, I haven't found Josiah's house yet, but I did find that "spooky" house that Jill and Jessa toured a while back while claiming that they were looking to upgrade their housing:

https://www.trulia.com/p/ar/springdale/5292-n-graham-rd-springdale-ar-72762--2108047062

Looks like JB paid a pretty penny for it.

I remember that episode!  I knew I'd seen that house before!

[Spencer Hastings]

3 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

When Jennifer said she was the only kid to know the baby's gender because she was (previously?) "in Joy's buddy system"...why is that even still a factor when Joy doesn't even live there anymore? I get that that means Joy raised Jennifer before she got married, but why is she still considered a leader to a whole cohort of siblings years after moving out? Why are they continuing to foster the idea of mini families and quasi-tribalism among siblings?

 

 

Joy probably wanted to make Jennifer feel special. Jill told the buddy team about all of her milestones first, and Joy probably remembers how special she felt and wanted to pass that on. I think Jill is the only one who still hangs out with her buddy team on a regular basis, but I think it’s actually one of her most endearing qualities. For all of her faults, she has done a really good job keeping her buddy team together and Joy has followed her example. They aren’t even obligated to speak to the younger buddies at this point, so the fact that they keep including them says a lot about their connection. 

Jill basically raised those kids from birth and they were all visibly upset when she got married and moved out.  She seemed to have a hard time being away from them as well.  Even though people always say Jessa and Jinger are the “closest” siblings, I think that Jill, Joy, James, and Jennifer have a much stronger bond.  I like that they include each other in big life events and make sure that they feel special as individuals on that team.  I hope that Joy, James, and Jennifer continue what Jill has started. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Spencer Hastings

[mythoughtis]

9 minutes ago, graefin said:

Well, I haven't found Josiah's house yet, but I did find that "spooky" house that Jill and Jessa toured a while back while claiming that they were looking to upgrade their housing:

https://www.trulia.com/p/ar/springdale/5292-n-graham-rd-springdale-ar-72762--2108047062

Looks like JB paid a pretty penny for it.

I think there is a picture of Josiah’s house somewhere in one of the Counting On forum threads. I don’t know how to search for it.  At the time, people speculated that it was going to be a new Duggar church that Jeremy, Derick and Ben would preach at.  

[sATL]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

Do you think that the Duggar  sisters and sisters-in-law will transition to birthing centers or hospitals anytime soon?  Jinger and Kendra may be leading the way.  So, who will be next? Will they eventually let go of home births? 

 

I would like to know what is the real reason the women think they can't have the "labor of their dreams" somewhere other than at home? Have they actually toured a facility and asked questions? They focus so much on the labor - the focus should be on a healthy baby and mom.

If Austin was an EMT who transported moms to the hospital - why would that be such a foreign idea to him to have his child in one?

I think the Bates are also leaning away from home births, too. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

19 minutes ago, graefin said:

Well, I haven't found Josiah's house yet, but I did find that "spooky" house that Jill and Jessa toured a while back while claiming that they were looking to upgrade their housing:

https://www.trulia.com/p/ar/springdale/5292-n-graham-rd-springdale-ar-72762--2108047062

Looks like JB paid a pretty penny for it.

How do we know that Boob owns it? Does it match up with property records? Sorry, I don't have time to look myself atm. 

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Joy probably wanted to make Jennifer feel special. Jill told the buddy team about all of her milestones first, and Joy probably remembers how special she felt and wanted to pass that on. I think Jill is the only one who still hangs out with her buddy team on a regular basis, but I think it’s actually one of her most endearing qualities. For all of her faults, she has done a really good job keeping her buddy team together and Joy has followed her example. They aren’t even obligated to speak to the younger buddies at this point, so the fact that they keep including them says a lot about their connection. 

Jill basically raised those kids from birth and they were all visibly upset when she got married and moved out.  She seemed to have a hard time being away from them as well.  Even though people always say Jessa and Jinger are the “closest” siblings, I think that Jill, Joy, James, and Jennifer have a much stronger bond.  I like that they include each other in big life events and make sure that they feel special as individuals on that team.  I hope that Joy, James, and Jennifer continue what Jill has started. 

I agree with this 100%. Jill most certainly had genuine love and care for her buddies, and because of that, those 4 probably will have the most naturally intimate sibling relationships throughout life. 

@SnarkEnthusiast human beings tend to have only so much emotional bandwidth for relationships. You may care for and “love” all of your 18 siblings but you’ll probably only have an emotionally intimate relationship with a few, so the continuance of the buddy team makes sense to me. 

[Pasha Kitty]

11 hours ago, kokapetl said:

I wonder what Jimbob’s plan for that house is. Some of the automatic doors had “no alcohol beyond this point” stickers. 

The house was probably served as a commercial venue of some sort before JB purchased it, hence the automatic doors, elevator, and door stickers.  I'm guessing that Siah and Lauren were gifted "use" of the house because JB has probably seen Lauren's parents' huge house and he would not want to suffer the embarrassment of  his son being responsible for downgrading her to a tiny little house such as the Jessa/Ben house.   

So, JB will be the provider of a big swanky house (which he'll have no intention of selling).

[graefin]

26 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

How do we know that Boob owns it? Does it match up with property records? Sorry, I don't have time to look myself atm. 

Yup. That's how I found it.

14 minutes ago, Pasha Kitty said:

The house was probably served as a commercial venue of some sort before JB purchased it, hence the automatic doors, elevator, and door stickers.  I'm guessing that Siah and Lauren were gifted "use" of the house because JB has probably seen Lauren's parents' huge house and he would not want to suffer the embarrassment of  his son being responsible for downgrading her to a tiny little house such as the Jessa/Ben house.   

So, JB will be the provider of a big swanky house (which he'll have no intention of selling).

I couldn't find any property records for the Swansons in either of the counties where the Duggars own properties. Maybe they don't own the house they're living in?

Edited September 4, 2018 by graefin

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe they're renting another Boob McMansion. 

Thanks for checking the other property. 

[ginger90]

I hope the house isn’t in the same shape it was when Jessa looked at it.

 

ETA: I think I’m confused. Is the link above Josiah and Lauren’s, or just another purchase? 

Edited September 4, 2018 by ginger90

[SunnyBeBe]

39 minutes ago, sATL said:

I would like to know what is the real reason the women think they can't have the "labor of their dreams" somewhere other than at home? Have they actually toured a facility and asked questions? They focus so much on the labor - the focus should be on a healthy baby and mom.

If Austin was an EMT who transported moms to the hospital - why would that be such a foreign idea to him to have his child in one?

I think the Bates are also leaning away from home births, too. 

It's foreign to me, but, there are some women who are not Duggars and who are not fundie who are pro-home delivery.  Here's a documentary link by Riki Lake. She says that the hospital is a business and not in the business of helping women.  She doesn't think that it's likely to have a natural birth there.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8h0SkPcs2U

[BitterApple]

I think the Swansons are renting. I noticed several of their rooms were short on furniture which jibes with a family that's living in a space but isn't officially settled there. If the rental is a temporary situation they wouldn't go all out with furnishings and decorations.

The SiRen house is creepy as hell. All that dark heavy wood and stone gives the place an ominous "someone died badly here" feel. I noticed Lauren didn't look too thrilled when Boob offered them to housesit.

Edited September 4, 2018 by BitterApple

[sATL]

I'm trying to think of a commercial establishment that would have the sign - "no alcohol beyond this point" .. A restaurant might have the sign on the inside.. I'm trying to think of a restaurant that has sliding doors - like you see at a grocery store.

And back to a 9000 sq ft  - a single family home of that size has certain amenities...I know it is the rough but the master bedroom was lacking for a house of that size.. all I saw was a single entry closet (as opposed to 2 BIG closets) and a big room with view..would have loved to see the master bath.. and kitchen

Edited September 4, 2018 by sATL

[graefin]

9 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I hope the house isn’t in the same shape it was when Jessa looked at it.

 

ETA: I think I’m confused. Is the link above Josiah and Lauren’s, or just another purchase? 

It's another one of their properties (featured on the show) that I came across while I was searching for the one Josiah/Lauren are living in (which I have not been able to find).

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, graefin said:

It's another one of their properties (featured on the show) that I came across while I was searching for the one Josiah/Lauren are living in (which I have not been able to find).

Got it, thanks!

[Sew Sumi]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I think the Swansons are renting. I noticed several of their rooms were short on furniture which jibes with a family that's living in a space but isn't officially settled there. If the rental is a temporary situation they wouldn't go all out with furnishings and decorations.

The SiRen house is creepy as hell. All that dark heavy wood and stone gives the place an ominous "someone died badly here" feel. I noticed Lauren didn't look too thrilled when Boob offered them to housesit.

That's not SiRen's house. It's the creepy house Jill and Jessa "looked at to buy" last year. It's "only" 5000 sf.

[Pingaponga]

I'm confused by all the houses JB's kids are living in.  When Josh got married, he and Anna moved into what was Mary's house - but did they actually buy it, or was it still owned by Mary?  And then Jessa and Ben lived there, and sometime between their wedding and now they purchased the house.  Right?  But initially they just lived in it or rented it?

Jill and Derick have stayed in at least one or two houses that JB owned, but have never owned a house of their own.

Joseph and Kendra are living in the house JB grew up in, but it was moved to the Duggar land and renovated.  As it's on JB's land, I'm assuming they don't own it but are renting it/living in it rent free.

Josiah and Lauren are now living in a 9000 square foot house, "house-sitting" it until it is sold.  And then they'll have to move to, I assume, another JB property.

Josh and Anna are, we assume, living in yet another JB-owned property.

JB sure is a control freak.  And so much for the "leave and cleave" Michelle cited at Josh's wedding.

On a purely practical note, when JB and Michelle dies, how do you think all of these properties will get divided up?  He must have one heck of a complicated will.

[Sew Sumi]

Everything is locked up in a trust, so I am sure that it gets updated every few months as Boob acquired more property. 

Smuganna never owned the Mold House. It went straight from Mary to the Seewalds.

[BitterApple]

Did Jason ever sell the house he was flipping? That wouldn't have been a bad option for Si to rent it from his brother. Even though the finishes weren't to my taste it was much homier than that 9,000 sq. ft. cave. 

What ended up happening to the Pool House? I wonder if John and Abbie will get it.

[Soaper410]

I remember in tax law, my professor said the people who get caught with the highest percentage of fraud cases are 1) attorneys and 2) family owned business where the only employees are other family members.

You can do all kinds of fun things with your taxes with enough creativity and want.  That’s what I’ve always assumed was the reason  all JB’s kids and in laws semi worked for him. 

I hope John David stays at his own house/appt or somewhere else that JB isn’t in charge of. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Soaper410

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Did Jason ever sell the house he was flipping? That wouldn't have been a bad option for Si to rent it from his brother. Even though the finishes weren't to my taste it was much homier than that 9,000 sq. ft. cave. 

What ended up happening to the Pool House? I wonder if John and Abbie will get it.

No, I got around to checking records under Duggar (didn't know the exact name of the trust), and I saw Jason's house. It's in both his and Boob's names. 

[lascuba]

5 minutes ago, Soaper410 said:

I remember in tax law, my professor said the people who get caught with the highest percentage of fraud cases are 1) attorneys and 2) family owned business where the only employees are other family members.

You can do all kinds of fun things with your taxes with enough creativity and want.  That’s what I’ve always assumed was the reason  all JB’s kids and in laws semi worked for him. 

I hope John David stays at his own house/appt or somewhere else that JB isn’t in charge of. 

I believe it. I know quite a few people with their own small businesses that live way too well for them to be running things honestly. 

[graefin]

18 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

What ended up happening to the Pool House? I wonder if John and Abbie will get it.

John already owns his own house that he's had for a while now.

Edited September 5, 2018 by graefin

[MsJamieDornan]

23 hours ago, Baby Button Eyes said:

JimBob and Michelle are getting way too much talking and appearance time now. 

They shouldn't be allowed to be on the show. I consider them accessories to what Josh did. They are miserable people.

22 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Dear TLC,

Please know that we haven’t forgotten the events and revelations of 2015.  We notice that you’re sneaking Jim Boob and MEchelle into more and more scenes each week.  Some of us aren’t the mouth-breathing morons who think these people are the salt of the earth and beyond reproach.  Some of us also have very long memories, especially when it comes to sugarcoating the sexual molestation of toddlers and preteens and their parents’ subsequent face-saving cover-ups.  Just putting that out there.

See ya next week (ugh, I hate myself).

We need to all complain to TLC ~!

[Fostersmom]

13 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

And another week, another fail in finding pretty much anything I like about Lauren.  She's the first Duggar/Duggar spouse (other than the obvious, of course) who I just really don't like, at all.  I don't think she's awful, per se, I just think she's.... not as funny as she thinks she is, and while probably unintentional, a little bit not so nice to Josiah.  I also think she's kind of dumb as a box of rocks, and to be fair, so is Joy-Anna, but at least Joy-Anna has some spunk, attitude, and just general weirdness/quirkiness that makes her still somewhat interesting to watch.

And for the most part, Joy is happy to go with the flow. She doesn't seem to want more than Austin can provide and as we've seen, is more than willing to help out. I don't get the impression Lauren is ever going to be satisfied with what Josiah is going to be able to give her, and I have the feeling JimBob sees this too. She's got a pretentious manner about her and I don't think she's going to be happy in marriage to Siah. 

[Normades]

1 hour ago, MsJamieDornan said:

They shouldn't be allowed to be on the show. I consider them accessories to what Josh did. They are miserable people.

I consider them active participants, even catalysts to what Josh did.  They are absolutely culpable in my opinion.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Josiah and Lauren are now living in a 9000 square foot house, "house-sitting" it until it is sold.  And then they'll have to move to, I assume, another JB property.

JBoob said he has owned it about 3 years?  Why?  It doesnt take 3 years to renovate a house. Well, unless your Austin.

[Nysha]

10 hours ago, cereality said:

These fools get what they deserve when they keep “in sourcing” all tasks within the family bc god forbid we use an outside professional until it is a crisis.

This needs to be tattooed on JimBob's forehead (preferably with a rusty nail and a sledgehammer) and a copy given to every one of the adult Duggars who make these stupid decisions.

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

And for the most part, Joy is happy to go with the flow. She doesn't seem to want more than Austin can provide and as we've seen, is more than willing to help out. I don't get the impression Lauren is ever going to be satisfied with what Josiah is going to be able to give her, and I have the feeling JimBob sees this too. She's got a pretentious manner about her and I don't think she's going to be happy in marriage to Siah. 

I kinda like Lauren, for some reason.  Maybe because I like her bitchiness rather than the idiot keep sweet mode. I could see her being manipulative.  

I do agree with you.  Lauren is only 19.  She is going to be a handful down the road. Josiah has no clue what he is  heading for and appears to have little skills to handle her.

I always thought Josiah was one of the nicer Duggar boys.  I'm getting a jerk vibe from him.  Very "Josh" attitude.  (Nothing more than that because I'm certainly not implying anything)  He really has the personality and mannerisms of Josh.   

I don't see a true love connection with Josiah and Lauren. Or basic friendship.   I see friction brewing.  Something about Lauren and Josiah together doesn't give me the lovey dovies.  

I think this is the least compatible couple so far. 

[jcbrown]

7 minutes ago, Nysha said:

This needs to be tattooed on JimBob's forehead (preferably with a rusty nail and a sledgehammer) and a copy given to every one of the adult Duggars who make these stupid decisions.

Ooooh, can we sign up to help with this tattooing?

[Misslindsey]

8 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I kinda like Lauren, for some reason.  Maybe because I like her bitchiness rather than the idiot keep sweet mode. I could see her being manipulative. 

I am with you on this. It is the same reason why I do not mind Jessa that much. I mean, as much as one can not mind any of these people. I kind of prefer the bitchiness to keeping sweet. I do enjoy Kendra even though I do not agree with her beliefs and such. I just find her to be genuine in her niceness. It seems like her actual personality and not her playing it up for the cameras.

There are moments where I think Josiah and Lauren are an okay match. Then there are moments where I do not. It is probably just me, but I feel like Josiah seems more into her than she is to him.

Tyler seemed shy to me, but I wonder if that had to do with him not being as comfortable or used to being on camera as the other kids.

[Marigold]

@Misslindsey

Me too!  Jessa is a bitch and I kinda like that. 

Kendra started out as super boring but she has turned out to be kinda endearing, for a Duggar! 

Lauren may prove to be a wildcard.  Maybe SHE will write that tell all book? 

[BitterApple]

I agree I'd rather see someone be genuinely bitchy as opposed to fake sweet, but Lauren  comes across like she has a bit of a mean streak. Maybe her personality just doesn't translate well on camera, but the more I see of her the less I like. I don't feel particularly bad for Josiah because I think he's smug and has way too high an opinion of himself, but I don't see this being a happy relationship. Hopefully I'm wrong and they grow on each other.