The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[JenCarroll]

Why would they be against renting? A mortgage is the biggest DEBT most of us will take on in our lives.

[GEML]

They are definitely against a mortgage. And renting is considered a poor way of spending money, as it doesn't go towards anything of value. I believe in true Gothard ways, the young man is to save until he can support a family and the wife saves/brings a dowry the provides for housing. It's why so many Gothard marriages are actually closer in age to the national average - in their late 20's - than we are watching on TV with the Duggars and now the Bates with higher resources.

[JenCarroll]

You have to buy your house with cash? I'm surprised they don't all live in trailers. Or tents.

Edited May 19, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Darknight]

I wonder if Jimbob has a trust fund set up for everyone? Or are the adult kids paid for appearing on tv. I think he probably guilts them into giving him their money

[CofCinci]

How much are the 3 Duggar-owned homes worth?

[GEML]

I don't know, but I wonder how many homes JB owns at any given time. There's been talk about "flipping" homes, but like the home Jill is living in now, he likely has homes at any given time that aren't selling, especially after the 2008 recession when he could have bought them and rehabbed them with cash, but loans were tight for buyers.

[Ljohnson1987]

Joseph is at Clown, er I mean Crown College. Is that for an F-U internet moment? I'm sure.

[Happyfatchick]

I bet he owns way more than 3 houses. The media always lists his income as being from commercial rentals. But he is fairly shrewd, I'm fairly certain he would have bought up houses when the market was depressed. Anybody who had ready cash did that, and I'm thinking he would have taken advantage. I'm also thinking Jill's house is probably far more of a leap than he usually takes. He probably got a really good deal on it. And good for him! I imagine grandma's/Josh's/jessa's house are more in keeping with his usual purchases. Starter home size. I'd be curious to know his wealth in real estate. None of my bidness, but I'd still like to know. There's certainly no crime in being a savvy real estate investor. I agree with Merylinkid that the older kids MUST have to sign contracts for themselves. They could, I guess, sign a separate agreement with JB that HE divvies up the money as he sees fit. I mean, if they rely him for guidance in everything, why wouldn't they trust him to have their best interests at heart? Somehow, some way, he manages to retain control over all of them, even the grown married ones. Msblossom, this bums me out too. There just doesn't seem to be any real forward thinking movement on the part of any of them. Why isn't Jinger (oooooh, it GRIPES me to type her name that way!) enrolled in a community college taking photography classes? With their name brand, she could be virtually launched as a wedding photographer in a heartbeat. They aren't STUCK, they are ADULTS. They just don't seem to have any vision beyond marriage and babies. THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!! You can BE a believer, you can BE anything you want - hell, Michael Jackson made himself into a successful white woman before he died! But you have to find that gumption to take the first step. You have to move out from the Duggar shadow (but still be willing to capitalize on the name brand). What I wouldn't give to be a mile in that house!!!

[Vaysh]

Does anyone one know what Joseph is studying? Has it been mentioned on the show that he is in college or do they treat his abscence like they did Josiah's year-long stay at ALERT? With complete silence...

Edited May 20, 2015 by Vaysh

[dillpickles]

Does anyone one now what Joseph is studying? Has it been mentioned on the show that he is in college or do they treat his abscence like they did Josiah's year-long stay at ALERT? With complete silence...

He's studying a fundy girlfriend to make more soilders with for alll we know. Education doesn't really matter when you're a duggar.

[becca3891]

 

Why would they be against renting? A mortgage is the biggest DEBT most of us will take on in our lives.

I cannot BELIEVE I didn't put two and two together on this issue before. Thank you for opening my eyes -- of course they're against mortgages as a part of debt free living. I was looking at it from a financial practicality point of view, that a mortgage is a better investment in your money, but they don't see if that way, in their always black and white world. Now it all becomes clear. They will rent until they can afford to pay cash for a home. Craziness, but it actually does make sense considering how obsessed they are with the debt free concept.

[GEML]

Yeah, I'm skeptical of the Joseph at college line. After all, both he and Josiah (and now Marjorie) were on the Mission trip, so are they all "at college" but only Joseph is doing it as a resident? And then there was some talk by Michelle about his "mentoring" young men or something. Then we have Josh being on the Board of Directors of a college....

I'm not convinced that Joseph is attending college as a student. Let's put it that way.

[Skittl1321]

I hope that in the future some of the Duggar girls will find their way to college.  Derrick went to a REAL school- so it is clear that Duggar worthy-men in college.  And sending your girl there is the best way to hook one of them.  Most "Derricks" will end up with girls from school- so if Johannah or Josie wants a guy like that, they are going to have to be there.  The boys could find girls they can envelope into the cult.

 

 I went to a university (Texas A&M, a real school where you can get an excellent education, if you want one) where it wasn't a secret that many women were there to get a man.  We'd call it getting your M.R.S.  Many people stuck it out and got married the weekend after graduation; but some would drop out once they found their guy and start a family right away.    You couldn't ride a bus without someone asking if you had found Jesus, and there were pro-life protestors and anti-Catholic ranters in the speech zones on a near daily basis.  A school like that would be great for a Duggar, assuming they could get in.

 

I don't know if OSU (where Derrick went) is exactly like that, but from a few people I know- it very well could be.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Skittl1321

[GEML]

I really think JB uses the Gothard line as a way to keep his kids from having less education than he does, and thus far, he hasn't had the child who pushes back hard enough. But he likely will. Out of 19, one of them will want much more than he can give them, and not be as fortunate in the timing as the older children have been.

[JenCarroll]

No question Boob wants his children less well educated than he is. Somehow I think he'd be less threatened by the girls getting more education, than by the boys. Just my impression of things.

[Darknight]

No question Boob wants his children less well educated than he is. Somehow I think he'd be less threatened by the girls getting more education, than by the boys. Just my impression of things.

But he should likes an educated woman. doctor

[Fuzzysox]

No question Boob wants his children less well educated than he is. Somehow I think he'd be less threatened by the girls getting more education, than by the boys. Just my impression of things.

Gothard (has a PhD) and Doug Phillips (lawyer) have come up with this bs of keeping kids dumb otherwise they can't keep their bs going. An educated child would question things he/she is learning. Kids being underskooled can't question what they don't know.

[Missy Vixen]

It's all fine and dandy to live "debt free" when one is residing in one of the lower cost-of-living states in the country and can obtain a house for $50K. Allegedly. The Gothard rules on mortgages and renting are ludicrous for anyone living on either coast or anywhere most people would want to live due to viable employers and/or friends and family. A mortgage helps middle class families build wealth via tax deductions, too. It's also possible to live "debt free" when one's expenses have been subsidized by a TV network for the past ten years and a large portion of one's house is a tax write-off due to being used for business purposes -- i.e., filming a TV show.

 

I don't think Jim Boob is "shrewd". I think he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. They live in a state that foreclosures are most likely plentiful and the houses were cheap to begin with. He learned what he knows about real estate from his parents, who also made their money in a low-cost-of-living state. He is damn lucky TLC took an interest in his family; if he wasn't on TV, he wouldn't have a roof over their heads at this point due to the fact TLC helped finish the TTH. Someone shrewd would have invested the $250K he spent on his failed political campaign because with compound interest, it would be worth a hell of a lot more now. (Someone intelligent would have fed his kids with that money, but I digress.)

 

I can't even imagine what happened when Smuggar and Anna bought a foreclosure in AK and took out a mortgage to pay for it. I'm amazed we didn't have a VSE as of yet regarding Jim Boob's complete psychological meltdown at Smuggar's ignoring his parents' "wise counsel" on such things.

[Wellfleet]

Gothard (has a PhD) and Doug Phillips (lawyer) have come up with this bs of keeping kids dumb otherwise they can't keep their bs going. An educated child would question things he/she is learning. Kids being underskooled can't question what they don't know.

 

Extremely good point. All cult leaders strive to keep their followers uneducated. Also it should be noted - every time - that Gothard's PhD is from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University, and although that fact didn't surprise me at all, I was interested to see that his PhD was not earned until 2004, when he was 70 years old.

[Missy Vixen]

I went to a fundie Bible college. I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has any.

 

Imagine how happy Joseph will be when he learns the credits from Clown College (if he's even officially enrolled; I agree with you, GEML) won't transfer if he ever wants to try an ebil community/state college for whatever reason.

[Rhondinella]

Louisiana Baptist University, where Gothard got his "Ph.D." (from wikipedia):

 

In the past, LBU's website stated that the university "had never sought government accreditation due to the nature of the educational services it provides. The mission of the school is and always has been to train people for ministry. Because of our strong belief in the separation of powers, we have never invited government oversight of our programs." [7] LBU is chartered by the Louisiana State Board of Regents.[8] This charter provides that LBU may award advanced degrees in various fields for use in ministry.

 

 

So, yeah, his Ph.D. means almost nothing to me.  He may have practical experience in ministry, but a Ph.D is an ACADEMIC degree, not a practical one (that would be the Doctor of Ministry--D.Min), and it seems unlikely to me that one could earn a high-quality academic degree from such an institution.  I've spent my career as a professor at Christian universities, but all of them were accredited by the same organizations that accredit state and regional public institutions and have to live up to the same standards.

 

This is not one of those schools.

[Wellfleet]

I went to a fundie Bible college. I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has any.

 

Imagine how happy Joseph will be when he learns the credits from Clown College (if he's even officially enrolled; I agree with you, GEML) won't transfer if he ever wants to try an ebil community/state college for whatever reason.

 

I've had to inform students of that little fact, from time to time. It's unpleasant at best, heartbreaking at worst. I always wish someone from the unaccredited school was part of the conversation - let them explain why the student wasted his time, effort and money at their school. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Wellfleet

[JoanArc]

Hillsdale College in Michigan would be great for the Duggars. It's a fundie/conservative wonderland, and the school discriminates all it wants since it doesn't take government money.

[Wellfleet]

While they would not get paid for many of the interview/news articles, they probably do sell photos (Jill's wedding and baby announcement, etc.) to magazines like People.

 

Jim Bob did own a towing business that was run most recently by John David. Some of the photos that they show of the old days show Jim Bob with a tow truck. He also owned the car lot, which was why he was often seen at the car auctions and featured so prominently at the zoning episode. He and Michelle had their real estate and insurance licenses. While you have to jump through some hoops to get those, it is something that a lot of people who want to be self employed do to earn some extra money. You don't even necessarily have to lease or own office space, as you can work out of your own home.  

 

I can certainly appreciate JB's dedication to supporting himself and his family. While he doesn't seem as diligent now (Duggar word), he has put in the time and energy in the past.

 

Yet, despite all his "due diligence," he still couldn't make enough to properly support his family - a family he and Me-chelle continued to enlarge.

[JoanArc]

 

I don't think Jim Boob is "shrewd". I think he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

The cell phone revolution and relaity tv are both the kind of windfalls you can't really plan for. He worked hard when he was you, but also go lucky. And none of the kids will be able to replicate that.

 

 

I can't even imagine what happened when Smuggar and Anna bought a foreclosure in AK and took out a mortgage to pay for it.

 

There's proof of a mortgage? Honestly I kind of feel bad for Josh. We saw how he ballooned up as soon as food became available and he was put in control. I wonder if the same thing will happen financially. Having 5-10 kids then having debt collectors circling in because you lost financial control is not fun. (Also, being poor and learning how to control money on your own, maybe with a few mistakes, is something Josh missed out on.) EDIT: not to imply I'm against mortgages. I'm not, as long as they're reasonable.

 

Totally unrelated question - Jim Bob said his dad was bad with money, but is there any evidence of this? It seems like Grandma was always a financial mogul. Maybe by JB's standards Jimmy Lee was bad, but to most of us he'd be ok.

Edited May 19, 2015 by JoanArc

[shannon612]

Can anyone explain what Crown College and ALERT are? Is Joseph away like at a legitimate college with a dorm and all? 

[Absolom]

Is it possible Gothard's degree was honorary?

[Wellfleet]

Yes, I read their first book and it did detail that. How lucky was he that TLc came along? Another thing he lucked out on is managing to get a cell tower on his land. He is either very lucky or a genius! Lol!

I bet he wrangles the hell out of them on his contracts with TLC.

 

He wasn't a genius... :>)

[Missy Vixen]

Hillsdale College in Michigan would be great for the Duggars. It's a fundie/conservative wonderland, and the school discriminates all it wants since it doesn't take government money.

A young family friend graduated from Hillsdale. To say I was heartbroken she went there is an understatement.

 

HIllsdale is too liberal. There's alcohol for sale in the student store...

Edited May 19, 2015 by Missy Vixen

[Wellfleet]

Why would they be against renting? A mortgage is the biggest DEBT most of us will take on in our lives.

 

Maybe they think this particular kind of debt is acceptable since it can often lead to a nice chunk of wealth at a later point. Unlike renting which - according to every single one of my siblings and in-laws - is just frittering $$ away each month. They cannot believe I've never bought a house or condo. And I tell them, I rent because when something in my apartment breaks, or starts leaking, or stops running, a nice man promptly scurries over, fixes it, and then scurries away again. :>)

[Wellfleet]

You have to buy your house with cash? I'm surprised they don't all live in trailers. Or tents.

 

The Kellers do live in a trailer, don't they? I bet a lot of Gothard fundies live in trailers, basement apartments, converted family garages etc - most of them at or near the poverty line. Something tells me this little tidbit about life, as Bill sells it, is not a bullet point in his brochure...

Edited May 19, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Missy Vixen]

I bet he wrangles the hell out of them on his contracts with TLC.

Jim Boob's ability to demand those concessions might not be as strong as they were before the Willis family was introduced on TLC. One can only imagine the sheer amount in production costs for 19KAC, for instance.

 

If he's not hearing footsteps, he should be.

 

There's proof of a mortgage? Honestly I kind of feel bad for Josh. We saw how he ballooned up as soon as food became available and he was put in control.

Someone on another site actually posted paperwork proving the house carries a mortgage.

 

If Josh and Anna truly have a mortgage on that house, it's the biggest rebellion yet against their parents' (and Gothard's) rules.

[GEML]

Josh and Anna are also one of the few Gothard families who actually work for someone else with a steady paycheck which means they can be APPROVED for a mortgage. It's a catch-22 that people forget. With the exception of the crazy world of mid 2000's lending, no right thinking bank would approve probably most Gothard followers for a mortgage. So how much better to insist that mortgages are evil and you are a superior person for not having one?

[Wellfleet]

It's all fine and dandy to live "debt free" when one is residing in one of the lower cost-of-living states in the country and can obtain a house for $50K. Allegedly. The Gothard rules on mortgages and renting are ludicrous for anyone living on either coast or anywhere most people would want to live due to viable employers and/or friends and family. A mortgage helps middle class families build wealth via tax deductions, too. It's also possible to live "debt free" when one's expenses have been subsidized by a TV network for the past ten years and a large portion of one's house is a tax write-off due to being used for business purposes -- i.e., filming a TV show.

 

I don't think Jim Boob is "shrewd". I think he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. They live in a state that foreclosures are most likely plentiful and the houses were cheap to begin with. He learned what he knows about real estate from his parents, who also made their money in a low-cost-of-living state. He is damn lucky TLC took an interest in his family; if he wasn't on TV, he wouldn't have a roof over their heads at this point due to the fact TLC helped finish the TTH. Someone shrewd would have invested the $250K he spent on his failed political campaign because with compound interest, it would be worth a hell of a lot more now. (Someone intelligent would have fed his kids with that money, but I digress.)

 

I can't even imagine what happened when Smuggar and Anna bought a foreclosure in AK and took out a mortgage to pay for it. I'm amazed we didn't have a VSE as of yet regarding Jim Boob's complete psychological meltdown at Smuggar's ignoring his parents' "wise counsel" on such things.

 

Completely agree. So far, Boob has been far, FAR luckier than smart. MissyVixen's "He was born on third base but thinks he's hit a triple" line is perfect! A smart person would never have thrown away $250K of his own money - !!! - on a political campaign. OMG. Hey, a smart person wouldn't have thrown away $250 of his own money. Boob is where he is because of the housing bubble, TLC, the recession, Arkansas and other factors. Not because he's JP Morgan.

[Fuzzysox]

So while I was out I kept thinking about Boob's empire. I'm thinking he needs to buy a couple of acres of property and build houses on them. Now that the boys are old enough he will have enough manpower. The whole development can be called DuggarVille and the houses could be rented out to other fundie families! Boob can have a church built on the property and boom tax writeoff for said church. 

 

Just think of all the fun and excitement of living in DuggarVille. I'm in!! *eyes rolling out of my head* lol

Edited May 20, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[JoanArc]

 

Someone on another site actually posted paperwork proving the house carries a mortgage.

 

If Josh and Anna truly have a mortgage on that house, it's the biggest rebellion yet against their parents' (and Gothard's) rules.

Thanks. That is quite rebellious! Next thing you know Josh won't be whoring out M'4's birth, wanting privacy instead (pretty please?)!

[GEML]

Grove City also doesn't accept government money but it's a pretty decent college. I have a close friend there who is on the faculty. Huge Obama supporter. Another friend who graduated from there ran as the Dem candidate for Congress recently in Va. The media reports for these schools aren't always the full picture.

You probably can't buy alcohol on campus, though!

Does David Waller have any education to speak of? And I believe I've read that most cult members look a lot more like Derick, Ben, or the Bates' - the are young people in college, or just recently graduated. Cult leaders want some intelligence - they need to persuade them, after all. Plenty of people following Gothard and Doug Philips had a BA or higher. It's their children who were denied.

[Wellfleet]

Is it possible Gothard's degree was honorary?

 

Anything's possible. Obviously many people, in many different fields, are awarded honorary ["honoris causa"] degrees each year, especially as they get older. Nearly everyone who speaks at a college Commencement ceremony receives one, for example. But honest individuals, and the issuing schools, are always sure to make the "honorary" fact very clear. Someone who was given an honorary degree, but portrayed it as earned degree, would be seen in academic circles as the equivalent of a politician who claims to be a wounded military veteran - and isn't. IOW, a scummy douche.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Wellfleet

[CofCinci]

I meant their 3 main houses (the tin house, Jill's mansion and the house with the mold restorations work done by teens)

[Joe Jitsu913]

This thread title made me snort. The sad thing is I can picture one of the Duggar children actually saying that they were "learnin' real good" at homefooling.

[JoanArc]

 

HIllsdale is too liberal. There's alcohol for sale in the student store...

Oh dear, I didn't know that. The no-self-control Duggars would be drunk before they moved into freshmen dorms.

[BitterApple]

This thread title made me snort. The sad thing is I can picture one of the Duggar children actually saying that they were "learnin' real good" at homefooling.

That's the beauty of the title. The Duggars are so poorly educated they wouldn't get the joke.

[irisheyes]

There's Pensacola Christian (Google their rules if you want to cry for the next generation) or Bob Jones University if they want an accredited degree. (So to speak). There's also Liberty near Joshie Boy. Liberty also has an online presence, so they wouldn't even have to leave the umbrella of JB's protection.

[Absolom]

Anything's possible. Obviously many people, in many different fields, are awarded honorary ["honoris causa"] degrees each year, especially as they get older. Nearly everyone who speaks at a college Commencement ceremony receives one, for example. But honest individuals, and the issuing schools, are always sure to make the "honorary" fact very clear. Someone who was given an honorary degree, but portrayed it as earned degree, would be seen in academic circles as the equivalent of a politician who claims to be a wounded military veteran - and isn't. IOW, a scummy douche.

Exactly and why I asked the question.  

 

Sadly, now that I had time to do a little research it seems to be he did do the "work."  The following is from their website:

 

 

Bill Gothard founder of the Institute of Basic Life Principles. Dr. Gothard has a worldwide ministry that includes many teaching facilities, Christian retreat centers and a hospital. His meetings have drawn thousands for decades. His Ph.D. dissertation became the foundation for his current book “The Forty Nine Commands of Christ.”  Bill Gothard

[Darknight]

I went to a fundie Bible college. I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has any.

Imagine how happy Joseph will be when he learns the credits from Clown College (if he's even officially enrolled; I agree with you, GEML) won't transfer if he ever wants to try an ebil community/state college for whatever reason.

Don't know if it's the right thread to ask. But I've looked at fundie colleges. Pensacola, BYU, BJU their rules are fucking ridiculous. If I may ask what fundie college did you attend? How was it?

[Darknight]

Jimbob got very lucky. First he was born in a different time period. Things were cheaper and the job market was different. He is stupid for spending 250k trying to play politician. His fucking family of 16 was living in a three bedroom with two bathrooms. The kids bathe every week or two I believe. Then he tries to cut conversation which is dangerous. Like building a house themselves not knowing what the hell they were doing. Using duct tape on shit instead of bringing in a professional. Trying to use others like the people on extreme cheapskates. I remember Jimbob wasn't going to go roller skating anymore because they started charging $5. Jimbob always expects others to bend over backwards for him and his family.

[Fuzzysox]

Shhh don't give TLC any ideas of putting Boob on Extreme Cheapskates. *shudder*

 

Jimbob got very lucky. First he was born in a different time period. Things were cheaper and the job market was different. He is stupid for spending 250k trying to play politician. His fucking family of 16 was living in a three bedroom with two bathrooms. The kids bathe every week or two I believe. Then he tries to cut conversation which is dangerous. Like building a house themselves not knowing what the hell they were doing. Using duct tape on shit instead of bringing in a professional. Trying to use others like the people on extreme cheapskates. I remember Jimbob wasn't going to go roller skating anymore because they started charging $5. Jimbob always expects others to bend over backwards for him and his family.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[kandinski]

Its hilarious hearing all these stories about the kids "mentoring",they basically live like prisoners how the hell can they mentor anyone...

[truthtalk2014]

Completely agree. So far, Boob has been far, FAR luckier than smart. MissyVixen's "He was born on third base but thinks he's hit a triple" line is perfect! A smart person would never have thrown away $250K of his own money - !!! - on a political campaign. OMG. Hey, a smart person wouldn't have thrown away $250 of his own money. Boob is where he is because of the housing bubble, TLC, the recession, Arkansas and other factors. Not because he's JP Morgan.

Although JP Morgan is a piece of crap... Maybe they have more in common than we know. 

[truelovekiss]

While I think we all agree that Jill marrying someone with a BS from an accredited university was an interesting development, I can't help but feel like Binjermin attending community college while being part of the dog and pony show is more interesting. If he was able to do that while under Boob's control, why not the howlers?