S02.E01: Part I

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 8/1/2018

Quote

A troubled detective returns to his hometown to investigate why a young boy would kill his parents. 

[AnnieHeights]

I am surprised no action on this board.  I thought it was great as did my two co-workers who watched as well.  It hooked me from the beginning and I looked at the clock and I was already 50 minutes in. 

Hindsight there were obvious clues the couple was not his parents ...  the way the 'wife' told the 'husband' he was a bad 'dad', the fact the 'mom and dad' didn't sleep in the same bed and the 'mom' slept with Julian.  I thought at first there was something wrong with the boy (obviously there was but hear me out) like he had a break down and his parents were taking him someplace on vacation to make him happy but of course there is much more to this story.  Bill Pullman does such a great job of playing the combination of tortured, awkward and good hearted.  I was intrigued with all the main characters in this series.

I could have sworn Victor Williams was in this episode briefly but I cannot find him listed anywhere.  

I'm all in! 

[LoveLeigh]

There is no discussion yet about this new season? I am disappointed because it is terrific. 

1 minute ago, AnnieHeights said:

I am surprised no action on this board.  I thought it was great as did my two co-workers who watched as well.  It hooked me from the beginning and I looked at the clock and I was already 50 minutes in. 

 

I just said the exact same thing! Where were they taking Julian? And.... did Julian kill them because he knew they had plans to do something evil when they reached their destination? 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I wasn't going to watch this because Season 1 was so unsatisfying but I got sucked in by Carrie C***. I loved her in Fargo and The Leftovers. The first episode wasn't too bad so I'll keep watching for now. I'm trying not to think too much because I didn't think Season 1 made much sense and I don't want to be disappointed again. I like the new detective and her dad. I like that the family trip to Niagara falls was put in a new perspective when we got more information later. 

21 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

And.... did Julian kill them because he knew they had plans to do something evil when they reached their destination? 

There wasn't a bag packed for him so maybe something evil was supposed to happen to him which would almost make it self-defense.

23 minutes ago, AnnieHeights said:

Bill Pullman does such a great job of playing the combination of tortured, awkward and good hearted. 

He was so awkward this episode! It made me squirm inside a bit.

[Neurochick]

I'm so glad I saw this last night.  I think this might be better than season 1, since I believe this is an original story.  The problem with last season was the story made zero sense because it was supposed to take place today, the action in the book took place in the 80's, in Germany so it made more sense than the show.

[Ms Lark]

5 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

There wasn't a bag packed for him so maybe something evil was supposed to happen to him which would almost make it self-defense.

At first I thought they were going to chuck him over the Falls so they didn't have to deal with his troubles anymore and then act like he jumped, but they weren't even heading that direction, so who knows? This just got really interesting, so I'm in.

[candall]

I don't know . . . I'm still burned pretty crispy from Season One.  And no spoilers, but once I saw the previews, I heaved a tired sigh.   You can do anything, and throw in all kinds of twists, red herrings and fuckery with that set-up.

Pullman, C****, Tracy Letts and Jay O. Sanders all make a compelling argument in favor, though.

 

For this episode, I'll just note that it shouldn't require the grizzled old experienced detective to notice there aren't any kid's clothes in the carefully inventoried possessions

[Irlandesa]

I liked this start as well.  Of course, a start is always easy.  Whether or not they can keep the tension up over the course of the whole series remains to be seen.  But being freed from a book will help since there won't be the pressure to respect some of the weirder plot points. 

And I think Pullman's character will hopefully not be bogged down with a dying marriage and an S&M mistress. 

[AnimeMania]

I am guessing this is more of a "why done it" than a "who done it". The making of a child murderer. Let's see how many twisted things happened to this kid to turn him into a killer. I thought that season 1 could have been better, a lot of it made no sense.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I'm just here for Carrie C****.

[topanga]

10 hours ago, candall said:

For this episode, I'll just note that it shouldn't require the grizzled old experienced detective to notice there aren't any kid's clothes in the carefully inventoried possessions

That was my one ding of this episode. Bill Pullman had to be the smart one to figure out that pretty obvious fact. 

Im liking this season so far. The child actor is doing a great job of being creepy and mysterious—without overacting. 

What is that machine making that ‘thump thump’ sound during the sessions with the woman? I’m not 100% convinced she’s his mom, either. And was she trying to turn him into a murderer by telling him to let ‘shadow Julian’ in?

Edited August 3, 2018 by topanga

[AnimeMania]

Something I didn't hear the police mention was if they found the phone. The lady was using a smartphone as a GPS. There should be all types of information to be obtained from that.

[WaltersHair]

Just discovered this was a new season. It kept coming up in my recs but I thought is was a re-airing of season 1. Color me surprised.

Really enjoyed the first episode. Very small town gothic and better (so far) at doing that than Sharp Objects.

edited to add

They should have taken Julian to the nearest hospital. Checking him out, making sure he wasn't on drugs or drugged, alcohol, sexual abuse, etc. Lots of reasons to do that before taking him to a house full of foster kids.

Edited August 3, 2018 by WaltersHair

[topanga]

5 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

They should have taken Julian to the nearest hospital. Checking him out, making sure he wasn't on drugs or drugged, alcohol, sexual abuse, etc. Lots of reasons to do that before taking him to a house full of foster kids.

I was thinking the same thing. I fanwanked that they did take him, and we just didn’t hear about it. 

[DangerousMinds]

Just watched it and I'm in. I recently watched season 1 (and read the book) and enjoyed those as well. I'm surprised to see so many who didn't enjoy season 1 are back for this.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Just watched it and I'm in. I recently watched season 1 (and read the book) and enjoyed those as well. I'm surprised to see so many who didn't enjoy season 1 are back for this.

The first season left me less than satisfied overall and I can tell you why I'm back.  Part of the reason is because It helps that it's an anthology-ish series.  So far, there is only one returning character but he's put in a new town with a new mystery.  So any baggage, related to stories and characters from the first season, is mostly gone. 

And since I'm an addict to serialized crime shows, it's basically like trying out a new show. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Irlandesa

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I'm surprised to see so many who didn't enjoy season 1 are back for this.

I was going to tap out but there really isn't anything new on TV right now. I have way to much free TV watching time.

They are so grooming that kid to become the next leader of their cult.

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I was going to tap out but there really isn't anything new on TV right now. I have way to much free TV watching time.

They are so grooming that kid to become the next leader of their cult.

I was thinking that the husband and wife were going up there to do some terrorist act. Maybe the kid grew up in a cult like the compound belonging to the Branch Davidians in Waco. Maybe the kid killed the couple to prevent something very bad from happening. Maybe he was programmed to keep it all very secret. I don't think he killed them because he was being abused, that is too trite and predictable a reason. 

[bilgistic]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:47 AM, AnnieHeights said:

I am surprised no action on this board.  I thought it was great as did my two co-workers who watched as well.  It hooked me from the beginning and I looked at the clock and I was already 50 minutes in. 

Hindsight there were obvious clues the couple was not his parents ...  the way the 'wife' told the 'husband' he was a bad 'dad', the fact the 'mom and dad' didn't sleep in the same bed and the 'mom' slept with Julian.  I thought at first there was something wrong with the boy (obviously there was but hear me out) like he had a break down and his parents were taking him someplace on vacation to make him happy but of course there is much more to this story.  Bill Pullman does such a great job of playing the combination of tortured, awkward and good hearted.  I was intrigued with all the main characters in this series.

I could have sworn Victor Williams was in this episode briefly but I cannot find him listed anywhere.  

I'm all in! 

It was definitely him. I love him!

[tennisgurl]

Last season was rather hit or miss, but I think this one has potential. Its another "we know they did it, but not why" mystery, but I think this, being an original story, will hopefully work better than some of the stuff from last season. This episode was quite interesting, I thought it was a great start. 

Were the "parents" taking Julian somewhere to kill him? Commit some kind of terrorist act? Did they kidnap him? Are they part of a cult? I thought it was weird that the "mom" was sleeping in the bed with Julian and not her supposed husband, but they were apparently a couple, considering they were boning even when Julian was about to get back to the room. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Zoe]

I figured right away that the kid wasn’t their son because he’s not white, but now the cult mother is white too, so I have no idea where they’re going with that...

[ferjy]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:47 AM, DakotaLavender said:

There is no discussion yet about this new season? I am disappointed because it is terrific. 

I just said the exact same thing! Where were they taking Julian? And.... did Julian kill them because he knew they had plans to do something evil when they reached their destination? 

I think a lot of people don’t know about it. I didn’t realize there was a second season. I’m glad someone mentioned it in another show on these forums. It must not have had much advertising. 

 

On 8/3/2018 at 6:13 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Just watched it and I'm in. I recently watched season 1 (and read the book) and enjoyed those as well. I'm surprised to see so many who didn't enjoy season 1 are back for this.

I liked the first season too. I like Bill Pullman, and especially in this role so I’m glad he’s back as the central character. 
 

 

So many questions at this point! I agree that it’s deeper and more complicated than abuse. I was thinking cult too and at first thought that he might be an intended sacrifice. Something in the way the “dad” said “I’m just trying to make this fun for him”, but grooming him sounds more likely. That thumping sound was like a hypnosis trigger. And I too doubt she is his mother. 
 

 

On 8/2/2018 at 10:13 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I wasn't going to watch this because Season 1 was so unsatisfying but I got sucked in by Carrie C***. I loved her in Fargo and The Leftovers. The first episode wasn't too bad so I'll keep watching for now. I'm trying not to think too much because I didn't think Season 1 made much sense and I don't want to be disappointed again. I like the new detective and her dad. I like that the family trip to Niagara falls was put in a new perspective when we got more information later. 

There wasn't a bag packed for him so maybe something evil was supposed to happen to him which would almost make it self-defense.

He was so awkward this episode! It made me squirm inside a bit.

Oh right, no bag. So maybe he was supposed to be a sacrifice and knew it. He might have been told how special he was to be the sacrifice. But his natural fears interrupted their plans.  
 

 

On 8/3/2018 at 6:04 PM, topanga said:

I was thinking the same thing. I fanwanked that they did take him, and we just didn’t hear about it. 

It’s probably standard practice to have them checked out before being placed. I agree it was probably done offscreen, possibly edited out for time. 
 

[diebartdie]

Well, Im back this season because I'm ever hopeful! However, I already have a problem with the set up. Jimsonweed really is extremely common, it is just everywhere but most people have no idea that it is toxic....but some people kn ow it is because they know it is a hallucinogen. Look it up, the amount required to kill an adult is considerable and it takes a lot longer. The amount those two seemed to take, they might have got a little dry mouth for a few hours, maybe been drowsy. They would have needed to down more than a couple sips of tea. When I was in my early 20's, I tried some, I actually consumed a large beverage made from steeped jimson seeds, supposedly the strongest part of the plant. I'm talking 12 ounces of liquid. I had the most severe case of cotton mouth I had ever experienced and all night long the most vivid dreams. I slept late the next day, missed my classes and generally felt hung over. After that, I was fine.

Was I lucky? I guess I was but really, it was quite the thing in my town that summer. Every single person I knew was trying it out, none of us died or went into a coma. One guy got arrested for driving under the influence. I mean people were ingesting just massive amounts of the stuff. I dont advocate for it, I did it that one time and never again because it just wasnt much of a party drug. I guess maybe we were all lucky we didnt all die of it but whatever, fact and fiction, two different things.

So in this show, a little kid can manage to pick enough jimson to kill two adults (while only getting a mild rash himself...okay....) only thing left to do is find out why!

[MBayGal]

On 8/5/2018 at 8:43 AM, tennisgurl said:

I thought it was weird that the "mom" was sleeping in the bed with Julian and not her supposed husband, but they were apparently a couple, considering they were boning even when Julian was about to get back to the room. 

I thought the "mom" was sleeping with Julian because he has nightmares; the "parents" weren't going to have sex with him in the room, so were hot to trot when he was out for a few minutes.  Tho he must have been gone a while to brew tea of jimson weed.  

[oftentimes]

What I don't get is when the "father" came into the motel room in the a.m., he told the "mother" that the mechanic was finishing up the car and it would be ready in about an hour.  The police didn't find the car for awhile, and it was found on the side of the road, not at a mechanic.

So, was the "father" planning on doing the same thing to the "mother" that they were going to do to Julian?  

[Iguessnot]

On 8/6/2018 at 12:38 AM, Zoe said:

I figured right away that the kid wasn’t their son because he’s not white, but now the cult mother is white too, so I have no idea where they’re going with that...

I don't know the actor, so I didn't peg him as non-white. I also don't know the actress playing his mother but she seems to have some Asian heritage. But I don't see it affecting the show one way or another.

[Zoe]

On 8/10/2018 at 6:37 AM, Iguessnot said:

I don't know the actor, so I didn't peg him as non-white. I also don't know the actress playing his mother but she seems to have some Asian heritage. But I don't see it affecting the show one way or another.

His two big roles before this was playing half-Indian on Alex Inc and Iranian on Mr Robot.

[Iguessnot]

12 minutes ago, Zoe said:

His two big roles before this was playing half-Indian on Alex Inc and Iranian on Mr Robot.

He doesn't look like a Swede, I thought maybe he had a little Greek or Jewish heritage. Whether that makes him non-white, is beyond my pay scale. What is his ethnicity?

[Brookside]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:46 PM, Iguessnot said:

He doesn't look like a Swede, I thought maybe he had a little Greek or Jewish heritage. Whether that makes him non-white, is beyond my pay scale. What is his ethnicity?

I was so struck by his gorgeous profile/features that I went online to try to learn his heritage. Couldn't find anything.

[DangerousMinds]

I was thinking he looked Israeli. Which would still make him Caucasian.

[Pondlass1]

I must be the only person who doesn't like the actor playing the detective.  He has the most annoying expression on his face all the time.

How could they drink that coffee and not realize it's not coffee?  Does the plant taste like coffee?  It's all so weird.

[diebartdie]

No, jimson weed tastes like dirt

[Court]

Both adults made a face when they tested the drink. They quickly covered as one does when a child dies something that appears to be thoughtful. 

[Portia]

Yeah, and the not-dad commented, "tastes like licorice."

On 8/22/2018 at 10:26 AM, Pondlass1 said:

I must be the only person who doesn't like the actor playing the detective.  He has the most annoying expression on his face all the time.

How could they drink that coffee and not realize it's not coffee?  Does the plant taste like coffee?  It's all so weird.

It was being presented as tea, not coffee.

Aw, you don't like old Bill Pullman? He's so cute to me for some reason, but I do find him somewhat limited as an actor by his inability to not smile. He has...what's the opposite of Resting Bitch Face? I'm gonna call it Resting Twinkle Face because his eyes are so goddamned twinkly. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Portia
late night typo

[Sinner Question]

Here's something that I am trying to figure out.  The murders of Jim and Bess took place in a motel in Keller.  Mosswood is on the edge of Keller.  Why didn't they take Julian farther away before stopping for the night?  I know if I was kidnapping someone, I would get as far away as possible before stopping.  Was this answered?  Did they have car trouble?  This question comes up later too but I don't want to reveal a spoiler.

[slothgirl]

10 minutes ago, Sinner Question said:

Here's something that I am trying to figure out.  The murders of Jim and Bess took place in a motel in Keller.  Mosswood is on the edge of Keller.  Why didn't they take Julian farther away before stopping for the night?  I know if I was kidnapping someone, I would get as far away as possible before stopping.  Was this answered?  Did they have car trouble?  This question comes up later too but I don't want to reveal a spoiler.

They had some loud clank sound and the car broke down. I'm pretty sure we see that in the first ep. so I don't think it qualifies as a spoiler. I don't think we were ever told though exactly WHAT went wrong with the car.

[Sinner Question]

Ok.  I didn't see the very beginning of the first episode but the spoiler would be from episode 7.  I'll give everyone a chance to see it before asking the second question but it is basically the same.  If you are kidnapping someone, wouldn't you try to get as far away as possible.

[Jextella]

On 9/10/2018 at 9:03 PM, Portia said:

Aw, you don't like old Bill Pullman? He's so cute to me for some reason, but I do find him somewhat limited as an actor by his inability to not smile. He has...what's the opposite of Resting Bitch Face? I'm gonna call it Resting Twinkle Face because his eyes are so goddamned twinkly. 

 

 

What a great description - and spot-on, IMO.   I think this script is pretty flimsy and there isn't a ton of dialogue which has to be hard.  I feel he's making do reasonably well with very little to work with.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Jextella

[SunnyBeBe]

I went back to watch this season from the beginning, since last week I had watched the most recent episode.

  I'm just wondering why Julian's attorney allowed him to be questioned by police and to provide incriminating evidence against himself.  Plus, he was being held in custody and was not free to leave, and no Miranda Warning.  Just curious. Maybe, there's an explanation for this down the road.  I just wondered what is that attorney doing for his client, just letting him give evidence against himself.  Odd.  

[DangerousMinds]

I don’t think he was in police custody when they first questioned him; I think he was in a foster home.

[slothgirl]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I went back to watch this season from the beginning, since last week I had watched the most recent episode.

  I'm just wondering why Julian's attorney allowed him to be questioned by police and to provide incriminating evidence against himself.  Plus, he was being held in custody and was not free to leave, and no Miranda Warning.  Just curious. Maybe, there's an explanation for this down the road.  I just wondered what is that attorney doing for his client, just letting him give evidence against himself.  Odd.  

I started a re-watch myself to see if there were any hints and tidbits that I didn't really notice the first go-round. Then I decided I just don't care, and I stopped caring a couple of weeks ago. I want this to wrap up and be over. I wish they had done a 2 hour finale last week so that we don't have 1 more week and (most likely) a lot of rushed finishing to the details. IMO, they aren't doing this show very well. Too many questions with too few small resolutions and answers along the way to keep us engaged in the bigger mystery as a whole. 

I think they need to re-think the entire format for any future seasons, unless they hope to seel on DVD for binge watching as a primary goal

Edited September 16, 2018 by slothgirl

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don’t think he was in police custody when they first questioned him; I think he was in a foster home.

Yeah, but, I don't think he was free to leave. (Locked in a room in state custody.)  Not that it matters at this point.  It could turn out to be a moot point We'll see, I suppose. I'm not sure why the kid's attorney insisted that he be present for questioning. He didn't do anything.  

Edited September 16, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Mackey]

The detective having a daughter and grandchild is driving me crazy. I have no recollection, in the entire first season, of these being mentioned. Were they? Or did we go through all that stuff with his wife,  without the  progeny ever being discussed? I recall a vague reference to an apparent tragedy. I thought detective and Mrs detective lost a child.

 

I am surprised by the idea that a child, who is most likely a murderer, would be placed in a non-lockup facility, a “foster home.” How do they possibly know that he won’t try to off everyone?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Mackey

[slothgirl]

3 hours ago, Mackey said:

 

I am surprised by the idea that a child, who is most likely a murderer, would be placed in a non-lockup facility, a “foster home.” How do they possibly know that he won’t try to off everyone?

Did they know,k prior to getting him to open up and talk, that he was a possible murderer and not a possible victim who got away?

[Jextella]

On 9/16/2018 at 9:54 PM, Mackey said:

The detective having a daughter and grandchild is driving me crazy. I have no recollection, in the entire first season, of these being mentioned. Were they? Or did we go through all that stuff with his wife,  without the  progeny ever being discussed? I recall a vague reference to an apparent tragedy. I thought detective and Mrs detective lost a child.

I am surprised by the idea that a child, who is most likely a murderer, would be placed in a non-lockup facility, a “foster home.” How do they possibly know that he won’t try to off everyone?

 

3

To the first point - I might be a minority of 1, but I would like to know Ambrose's backstory.  He hasn't killed anyone, but maybe they could figure something out to have his story be the premise of S3.

To the second point - that his a super observation - one that I would never have thought of.  There is a lot of questionable scenarios in this show - and during both seasons.  I'm ok with it.  I'm ok, too, with knowing they aren't giving away enough for us to do anything more than speculate.  I've "let it go" and am taking this thing at face value - bubble gum mystery.

Random babbling - I'm now leaning toward the idea that Julian is towing the line for the cult.   They give him parameters by which certain behaviors are acceptable - if not encouraged including murder.  He was directed by someone to kill all 3.  Vera, Marin, the Beacon, or some combination.  There have been references to murder in a few places, i.e. the lake, Adam and Bess needing to "start over", Julian as a sacrifice himself, and so on.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Jextella

[slothgirl]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

To the first point - I might be a minority of 1, but I would like to know Ambrose's backstory.  He hasn't killed anyone, but maybe they would figure something out to have his story be the premise of S3.

I have felt for some time that the "sinner" referred to in the title is not the murderer in the police case, but Ambrose himself.

But since both seasons have a religious component that affects the killers, I could be wrong.

If there is a season 3, I hope they change the way they tell the story. They let plot twists and uncertainty of what's going on drive the story despite the rich psychology of the characters.

[AAEBoiler]

I'm finally getting to this in my backlog now. I thought it was really dumb the way they brought Bill Pullman's character (Ambrose) into this season. The newly minted, female detective is given the new case and she isn't even on the job for 24 hours and she's already running to the grizzled veteran for help?!? C'mon! That's just stupid.

[Paloma]

Probably no one is still reading this thread because it's a year old, but my husband and I discovered Season 2 on Netflix. Like many others, we were annoyed with Season 1 and didn't plan to watch if there was a Season 2, but I guess it's been long enough that we forgot what it was about and why we were so annoyed (though we do remember the unnecessary masochism scenes). Anyway, we were really drawn in by the first episode and by the mystery. I'm surprised to see that several posters here think the not-parents were kidnapping the boy with the intent of doing him harm. I'm putting my hypothesis in a spoiler tag because I'm not sure if this information is from Part 1 or Part 2 of Episode 1.

Spoiler

Once we were introduced to the kid's mother and the cult, I thought that the couple was escaping from the cult and taking the boy with them to protect him from whatever evil stuff his mother and the cult had in store for him.