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S05.E22: The End

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Season Finale. Coulson's life or death is the challenge the team finds themselves in, as the wrong decision will cause the destruction of Earth.

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No Thanos ending?!? Boooooooo Shield! You chickened out for sure. 

I was shocked by Fitz. Like, I cried surprise. I thought he wasnt going to have legs when he looked down. Robin freezing when she said “something is different” was haunting. I hope she finds some peace.

And super SUPER surprised we didnt see Deke fade out. I’m actually sad we didn't.

I thought they were going to go for the shocker moment of the time loop, they ushered all those people from Chicago on the plane. I for sure thought they were going to go for it.

Would Fitz really be out in space? Wouldnt the timeloop collaspe? Are we going to get Enoch back? 

Love Mack as the Director. I wonder if Daisy recognizing her lack of leadership skills was the start of the change of the loop. Coulson really did put the puzzle together. Daisy was the only one to stop Talbot. He definitely lived long enough to see himself become the villian. 

So, the cliffhangers are is Fitz still out there, and will they find him? And Coulson’s death.

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Not sure why Deke gave Daisy the 'pep talk' instead of Mack. That character really served no purpose on this show except to be an example on how the showrunners presume they need a white man of a certain age to be on the stage.

Jiaying was able to save Daisy and change the timeline, after a fashion.

Fitz is dead, and the copout excuse that would be used to bring him back could be seen a mile away. Fitz crossed lines, nothing came of it, and it's pretty much handwaved at this point.

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Huh. Like watching an actor's final performance in Doctor Who, only the regeneration doesn't happen. Best guess: the writers thought this would be it for AoS, and they didn't tie directly to the end of Avengers: Infinity War. Understandable, really. This would've been a good note to end the series, but I'm glad we get one more season, even if we have to wait a year, right after the next Avengers movie.

I can't pretend that I understood what was going on. Fitz died, except . . . no? Or did he die, but his frozen body is still out there from when he was sent to find his team via the "long way"? And did Deke blip out of existence? Is it one of those deals where his past doesn't become the future, so he winds up staying? Is Jemma pregnant with a daughter? Oh, and if I think too hard about this, will Kang and Immortus pop in to slap each other silly?

I'm good with Phil going out. Like I said last week, I don't think anyone pegged the straight-laced government guy from Iron Man to be the center of anything. And true, turns out even the most uncanny versions of the team weren't that motley, at least compared to Legends of Tomorrow. However, I kept tuning in, and Clark Gregg was good. Oh, and Phil gets to spend his last days with May. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Mack as leader? Shit, I never thought of that. Granted, I wasn't the most attentive viewer. If he's the official head by the start of next season, that wouldn't be bad.

Heh . . . anybody here watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? Talbot went out like Kars. I guess Pasdar can go back to Supegirl and be underutilized as Morgan Edge. The guy did go all-in wit the snark as Talbot. Poor damaged Talbot.

The wait is on. How will I fill the void? Oh, right . . . we're living in the age where the media is over-saturated on comic book-based material, and anything and everything can be turned into a series or movie. Oops. ?

ETA: Wait, Deke is gone-gone? Once again, not the most attentive viewer. He wasn't that bad. At least he got to eat Twinkies and drink beer. Maybe both at the same time. I wouldn't think that would be weird.

Edited by Lantern7
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I wasn't shocked at Fitz's death. I think there was speculation before that they have a second Fitz on standby if they need to kill a main character, but not really kill a main character (plus, basically a clean slate with Jemma getting to fix Fitz before he breaks himself). Though, I admit I totally forgot up until the memorial scene, yet I still didn't feel all that heartbroken. I did feel a little sad the seconds up to Fitz's death, though. But then they really moved past it with jumping right into Coulson's memorial and Jemma handing Coulson the postcard. 

LOL at Deke literally disappearing off screen. I'll be honest; I really wanted to see it happen onscreen. I just find it incredibly odd that they didn't. I assume it was a cut scene or a cut shot. I can't imagine them not having filmed that and leaving Deke's final scene as him mentioning that he'd fade out of existence. 

I will say, the ending did get to me, particularly Coulson and Daisy's goodbye. So, we have Coulson likely dying off screen, which....kind of sucks? At least he's got May, who started up a romance with him weeks before he dies. That's about as tragic as the FitzSimmons romance. 

I'm real annoyed at the nonchalant death of our Glenn Talbot. I get that they firmly established how far gone he was, but one minute he was alive, and next minute, poof! He was sent hurling through space. It just felt very rushed. Actually, the whole finale did. 

Mack as the new leader works very well. 

I am sad no Infinity War stuff happened. 

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If I didn’t know that this show would be back I would have thought that this was a very good series finale.  I am guessing this was in fact written as a series finale and now the writers are going to have to do some nifty backtracking if they want Fitz and Coulson back.

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2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am guessing this was in fact written as a series finale and now the writers are going to have to do some nifty backtracking if they want Fitz and Coulson back.

Fitz is easy, they're going to go get the Fitz in cryo-sleep. Coulson, I have no clue how they're going to pull that rabbit out of the hat.

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Just now, AimingforYoko said:

Fitz is easy, they're going to go get the Fitz in cryo-sleep. Coulson, I have no clue how they're going to pull that rabbit out of the hat.

Hey it’s Jemma we are talking about.  She probably has a super secret lab where she can grow her own Fitz. 

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hard to really care about what happen with Fitz when it can be changed so easily with Frozen Fitz 

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Oh shit. Frozen Fitz means two things 1)We know he’s most likely going to snap again so Jemma and Mack better be on top of that

2) FitzSimmons is married but they’re not. And we’re going to get post-Framework, post-Hydra prison Fitz. Are we going to get another wedding? And this Fitz never meets his Grandson, but also means so many other things are wiped out. Everything except his first episode this season. I dont know how I feel about that.

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So, no Infinity War tie in. Why bring it up in the first place, if they weren't going to do anything with it? Thats really lame. 

I felt really awful watching Fitz die, as this has been his worst half season and I didnt want him to die like that but now they get to start over with a new Fitz! Well, one thats still right out of imprisonment and the computer universe, but at least he didnt torture one of his friends. Kind of a sorry way to handle all of that. 

That really felt like a series finale, I guess the show didnt expect one last season. I am happy to get more, but I dont know where its really going from here, unless they decide to tie into Infinity War later, when the second movie is already out. It was a good series finale, more or less, with Coulson and May finally going to Tahiti (a magical place) to just take a well deserved break. Well, a break to die at least. Guess that will be what we get next season. It would be pretty depressing if he just died off screen, after finally getting together with May.

It sucks that Talbot was just offed so casually. He went through so much, and tried so hard to do right in the end, and while the Daisy vs Talbot fight was cool, it seemed like a crappy end to a character thats been around for such a long time, and wasn't in charge of his faculties when he went crazy. 

I liked when Daisy admitted that she was compromised, and Mack should be in charge. The idea of putting one guy over the whole world is ridiculous, even if Daisy was trying to justify it, and Yoyo was right to call that out. Mack will be a good leader, I am excited for that.

Edited by tennisgurl
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So, if I'm understanding all of this correctly, Fitz died, but everyone baring Coulson and Melinda are going into space to try and recover Frozen Fitz, because he should be still there?  Ugh, I hate time-traveling.  It just makes my head hurt.  But if that's the case, could that mean Enoch might be back?!

Also, bearing a twist, it looks Coulson is destined to die for good, and is going to spend his final days with Melinda in Tahiti (finally!)  If this is truly it, then it's a decent enough of a send-off, and I'm glad Clark Gregg got to revisit the character again for five seasons.  Of course, 

Spoiler

we know Coulson will be back in the MCU with Captain Marvel!

Bummed that they ended up just making Talbot be too far gone and Daisy "quakes" him into space.  I'll miss Adrian Pasdar here.  But maybe Supergirl will bring his Morgan Edge back, and he'll be used properly this time.

Glad that everyone woke up and realized that Mack should have been the Director this entire time.  He might get too self-righteous at times, but he was always the one that seemed to be able to keep the team from going at each other's throats.

Glad that both Piper and Davis are still around!  Since we're getting another season, I still vote to have a "Lower Deck" type episode, that focuses on them watching all the main characters call the shots and how their decisions effect the supporting crew.

Deke really did just disappear, huh?

Overall, kind of a frustrating season compared to the last one, but I'm still curious to see where they go from here.

Edited by thuganomics85
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Well that's shockingly satisfying. With Fitz dead, so dies the FitzSimmons Show that the show's been threatening to be for the past 2 seasons, and the rest of the characters can breathe.

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49 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Well that's shockingly satisfying. With Fitz dead, so dies the FitzSimmons Show that the show's been threatening to be for the past 2 seasons, and the rest of the characters can breathe.

No Fitz Simmons baby or grandson either, please. Also, I would wait and see what they do in Season 6 and see if it will stick or not. Personally, I think its not going to stick and they will bring back Fitz.

Edited by TVSpectator
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idk I always thought Fitz going was to obvious it won’t stick either Coulson is a bit more complicated 

 

but it it seems the reason the original timeline happen was cause Daisy couldn’t make the hard choice when it came to coulson 

Edited by Froippi
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1 hour ago, Froippi said:

hard to really care about what happen with Fitz when it can be changed so easily with Frozen Fitz 

True there is a giant restart button out there and I won't put it past this show if they will hit that button. Sad about Talbot ending the most though. Been around since late season 1, became Coulson's/SHIELD's  friendenemy over the seasons, and ended up that he went crazy and became another bad guy that ended up dead.

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Goddamn it they got me! I completely forgot about Fitz frozen out in space and that the changed timeline wouldn't have effected him. Good one AOS writers, because I was tearing up like a mofo during that last 15 minutes. 

Technically though, Jemma isn't married to this Fitz, and it would be kind of awkward to bring it up, but he was going to propose.

I would have been fine with this being the series finale.

Edited by VCRTracking
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I can't be the only one sitting there listening to reporters drone on about royals asking where was the after credit sequence? See you all after Avengers 4 hopefully

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26 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Goddamn it they got me! I completely forgot about Fitz frozen out in space and that the changed timeline wouldn't have effected him. Good one AOS writers, because I was tearing up like a mofo during that last 15 minutes. 

Technically though, Jemma isn't married to this Fitz, and it would be kind of awkward to bring it up, but he was going to propose.

I would have been fine with this being the series finale.

I would have too. Still, this episode alone could generate enough story for half the 13 episodes they'll get the summer after this.  (Or 1 - which is just as likely.)

I'm glad they made Mack Coulson's successor. He's the only one who has any kind of moral compass. FitzSimmons were willing to potentially sell out the whole world for each other, May and Daisy for Coulson and they made it look like Elena was too willing to kill (wrongly, IMO but whatever...). 

AP has been awesome this season and I'll miss Talbot a lot, not something I could have pictured saying at the beginning. 

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39 minutes ago, Raja said:

I can't be the only one sitting there listening to reporters drone on about royals asking where was the after credit sequence? See you all after Avengers 4 hopefully

I was surprised there wasn’t an end cap scene. Like, when Coulson blasted Garett or when what’s his face disappeared in the Framework. I really thought we were going to get an Infinity War ending or at least Deke disappearing watching a squirrel.

Edited by SnoGirl
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1 minute ago, SnoGirl said:

I was surprised there wasn’t an end cap scene. Like, when Coulson blasted Garett. I really thought we were going to get an Infinity War ending or at least Deke disappearing watching a squirrel.

Or first sighting of a Squirrel Girl 

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5 minutes ago, Raja said:

Or first sighting of a Squirrel Girl 

Is New Warriors still going to happen? Doreen is supposed to pop up there in front & center. And I cannot say this enough: I want Lockjaw next season.

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Rumor is saying Disney might be holding on for their own streaming service rather than make a New Warriors for Hulu.

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Well, if Daisy should ever find herself looking for a job, she'd be a great fit at SpaceX or NASA. Who needs Rockets when you have Quake?

 

Edit: Also, are we left to assume that if Fitz hadn't kicked the bucket, no one would've bothered with Frozen Fitz?

Poor Frozen Fitz...doomed to drift through space for all eternity...

Edited by mrspidey
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7 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Well that's shockingly satisfying. With Fitz dead, so dies the FitzSimmons Show that the show's been threatening to be for the past 2 seasons, and the rest of the characters can breathe.

LOL it's been the Daisy show 

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So, Deke just disappears between scenes and no one even mentions it? Did they forget because he  never existed? (Not possible, because every single thing he had done before his disappearance would have changed. And if time had shifted, no one would remember there was a frozen Fitz in the freezer.) 

Speaking of a frozen Fitz in the freezer - that sort of undercut the death of Fitz . It was not as significant when you have a spare - and  after the death, you immediately begin talking about the spare, for the first time. 
Plus, you get an opportunity to repeat the very special, 100th episode wedding of FitzSimmons  .. maybe .. after another series of roadblocks. 

Coulson did not die, which also felt like a cop-out. We had to endure ten or more episodes of everyone angst-ing  over the looming Death of Coulson. He was not even on his death bed.  As a comic book character, there are lots of ways for Coulson to be saved (at the very last second, of course.) 

It sort of irked me that Talbot/Graviton sat a huge alien spaceship on top of Chicago - and we see that not all of the aliens are dead on board - and yet the AoS heroes just fly off to Tahiti and then off to search for Frozen Fitz as if everything has just been tied up with a pretty bow. (And they are still the Most Wanted Criminals on the planet.) 

Edited by shrewd.buddha · Reason: corrected 'Fritz' to 'Fitz' - tho Fitz had been on the fritz ..
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24 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

 

It sort of irked me that Talbot/Graviton sat a huge alien spaceship on top of Chicago - and we see that not all of the aliens are dead on board - and yet the AoS heroes just fly off to Tahiti and then off to search for Frozen Fritz as if everything has just been tied up with a pretty bow. (And they are still the Most Wanted Criminals on the planet.) 

 

That brings us to events in Wakanda set maybe minutes but more likely a day after Chicago. Judging from the Chicago cop reacting to Mac's announcement of SHIELD is here we got this being a mild call back to the NYPD Sergeant reacting to Captain America's order and Daisy running to the rescue looking like Bruce Wayne running towards Metropolis, except in the open and seen  I would think that in the MCU world and the show a general amnesty to SHIELD and the Sokovian  Accords jailed enhanced is probably going to happen for Avengers 4 and season 6.

Edited by Raja

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I was confused after watching this episode, but these EP interviews helped clarify some things for me (they also talk about Avengers: Infinity War, but I did not quote their comments in case anyone hasn't seen that movie yet)...

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. EPs Talk About Season Finale's Emotional Exits
By Matt Webb Mitovich / May 18 2018, 7:00 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2018/05/18/agents-of-shield-recap-season-5-finale-is-clark-gregg-leaving-iain-de-caestecker/

Quote

Here, executive producers Jed Whedon, Maurissa Tancharoen and Jeff Bell — in an interview conducted prior to S.H.I.E.L.D.’s renewal as well as Season 6 being scheduled for Summer 2019 — fielded some burning Qs about what we just saw.

TVLINE | Given how the finale ends, should we expect Clark and Iain de Caestecker, and possibly Ming-Na Wen, to not be a part of any Season 6?
WHEDON
| We hope we get to answer that question.
BELL | [At the time of this interview], there’s no Season 6, so we designed it so that you can imagine it as you want. You can go, “Oh, they came up with a last minute fix” or, “Oh, they had a few weeks together,” or somewhere in between. The ambiguity of it doesn’t undercut the emotion, but it also allows people to respond individually.

TVLINE | The Fitz that Coulson hopes Simmons “finds” one day — that’s the one who froze himself inside Enoch’s ship in the other timeline?
TANCHAROEN
| Yes. He’s on his way to save them.
WHEDON | He went the long way, so [he and Enoch are] still traveling.
BELL | They’ll be parked behind Jupiter, biding time.

TVLINE | It may be small consolation, but giving Simmons that hope was a nice touch, because it avoided you going “full Whedon” on FitzSimmons as a couple.
WHEDON
| And by that, you mean “being cruel and killing them”? [Laughs] Is that what you mean by “the full Whedon”?
TANCHAROEN | [Laughs] But at least you still get to experience the emotion of it — for a little while.
*  *  *
TVLINE | We last saw Deke in the Lighthouse when most everyone else was scrambling to Chicago; there was no scene where we see him “blink” out of existence. As far as we know, is he still in the Lighthouse?
BELL
| That’s a question.
TANCHAROEN | Did he blink out, or did he go somewhere else?

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Did the finale include Infinity War shocker?
NATALIE ABRAMS May 18, 2018 at 10:00 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/tv/2018/05/18/agents-of-shield-coulson-fitz-death-infinity-war-finale/

Quote

What came with the decision to kill Fitz, even though you guys have this loophole? 
WHEDON
: I can say that in the writers’ room, I don’t remember what happened, but it was a big eureka moment for us.
BELL: Right, because the one time loop problem we had was that Fitz was out there in space.
WHEDON: Yeah, and when we brought everybody back, we talked for weeks about how to bring them back. Do they come back to the diner? Well, then he would still be there. Okay, well, how do we fudge this? And this problem we had in bringing them back — and we brought them back after he had left the planet just to avoid that problem — that problem became this great opportunity. What we realized is the thing that would weirdly have the most impact, one of the most painful things that you can experience, could be then experienced and then, not brought back, but a loophole could be revealed.
BELL: Actually, it cleaned up a mess a little bit.
WHEDON: Yeah, exactly. And so, it asks bigger questions about can you change time and all that, but we were pretty excited about that story point. One of the things that we did this year was put them together in a concrete way, because we felt like we pulled them apart too many times, and we realized, “Wait, we can do it again!” So we were all pretty excited.

If the show got renewed, this would be a different Fitz who hadn’t gone through the future experiences, right? 
BELL
: Absolutely.
WHEDON: True.
BELL: He would have no idea he was married.
WHEDON: He’d just be trying to find Simmons because he wants to propose.

It feels like Deke made his exit so we wouldn’t know whether he suddenly disappeared or not. Anything you can say of what actually happened to Deke? 
TANCHAROEN
: No.
BELL: I think it really is a mystery. Did he disappear or did he walk away? But that’s a good thing for people to argue about I think.
WHEDON: Yeah, and we hope they do. Part of this season was about hoping that people on their couches had the same arguments that we had in the writers’ room for hours on end.
TANCHAROEN: Yeah, we wanted everyone’s brains to melt the way ours did in the writers’ room.
WHEDON: Wanted to share that just a little bit.

Also, EW's Natalie Abrams has a whole thread dedicated to clearing up the Fitz confusion:

Edited by tv echo
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Wow I have to say that really did feel like a series finally. I guess they really didn't know that they were going to get renewed. I love the tie back to season one with "it is a magical place". Though I was the only one that was hoping that he would drive off in Lola? I'm glad that Coulson was smart enough to stick the thing on Daisy instead of leaving it in the lighthouse.

I would say I totally sobbed when I realized Fitz died. I feel like they kind of made it confusing by showing him talking, I guess he was in shock because of being crushed. I didn't even think about him still be frozen there. I feel like that shouldn't to be to hard to find, but I guess he wasn't frozen in the lighthouse.

Maybe an opinion of one, but I'm glad they ignored the ending of IW. I feel like that would have just destroyed the season. They finally get a somewhat calm time only to be impacted by that ending. I'm not sure what they will do with season 6, but maybe it'll air after the second movie. And obviously them finding Fitz. I was glad that they didn't show Deke, as that would have answered that they found him or worse that Simmon's is pregnant, which would make no sense. As those two really had no time to do anything.  Anyhow, great episode.

Edited by blueray
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20 minutes ago, blueray said:

Wow I have to say that really did feel like a series finally. I guess they really didn't know that they were going to get renewed. I love the tie back to season one with "it is a magical place". Though I was the only one that was hoping that he would drive off in Lola? I'm glad that Coulson was smart enough to stick the thing on Daisy instead of leaving it in the lighthouse.

I would say I totally sobbed when I realized Fitz died. I feel like they kind of made it confusing by showing him talking, I guess he was in shock because of being crushed. I didn't even think about him still be frozen there. I feel like that shouldn't to be to hard to find, but I guess he wasn't frozen in the lighthouse.

Maybe an opinion of one, but I'm glad they ignored the ending of IW. I feel like that would have just destroyed the season. They finally get a somewhat calm time only to be impacted by that ending. I'm not sure what they will do with season 6, but maybe it'll air after the second movie. And obviously them finding Fitz. I was glad that they didn't show Deke, as that would have answered that they found him or worse that Simmon's is pregnant, which would make no sense. As those two really had no time to do anything.  Anyhow, great episode.

I remember that scenario from Emergency, Third Watch also did it with a firefighter  but faster like here with no chance to prepare the patient.. The rocks were preventing Fitz from bleeding out and when removed he was dying. They caught me on the memorial when we saw it was Phil Coulson who died in the line of duty and SHIELD HQ was the Zephyrus, replacing The Bus.

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1 hour ago, blueray said:

I would say I totally sobbed when I realized Fitz died. I feel like they kind of made it confusing by showing him talking, I guess he was in shock because of being crushed.

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It sure felt like a series finale.  I've been unsure of my impression of Agents of Shield from time to time, but I was left with the feeling that it was a pretty good show after all. 

So the show will be returning next summer with a shortened season.  You have to wonder if Coulson/Clark Gregg will be returning for that.

Sad to see Fitz go, of course.  They said that this proves that the timeline can be changed, but if they go and wake up frozen Fitz, then that means he won't be in the future to save everybody or to come back and die.  Quite the paradox.  I guess they believe everything gets separated into alternate timeline realities, but how can they be completely sure that doing this won't change something, or everything?

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Timetravel is tricky ^^

If they get Frozen Fitz it looks like they are in a Parallel Universe because if they wake him up he cant get into the Future and help them there= Paradox  

I like Timetravel Stories but the Logic in the Storytelling is a mess XD

Edit.

Two Idiots same thought ^^

Edited by Andrew Wiggin
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I'm hoping season 6 will be like the last season of the animated Justice League. The producers thought the previous season would be the last season so they gave it such finality and importance but then Cartoon Network ordered another one so they decided to just have fun. There's one episode alone that made the extra season worth it "Great Brain Robbery" where through a crazy set of circumstances the Flash and Lex Luthor switch minds. The part where "Lex as Flash" is in the bathroom is one of the funniest moments of the show:

6b6.png

 

Also hoping that despite the division between the Marvel TV and film at least one of the Avengers show up and meet Quake or the other SHIELD agents.

Edited by VCRTracking
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This whole arc reinforces my hatred of time travel. It will always be a lazy storytelling device in my eyes.

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Time Travel is not a lazy Storytelling device but its so tricky that most Writer dont get all the strings how are a Attached.

Its mostly way to tricky for a Deux ex machina.

Edited by Andrew Wiggin
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Not sure why everyone assumes Talbot is gone for good. Yes, he got Quaked out into space, but with all the gravitonium he’s carrying around, whose to say he wouldn’t defrost quite nicely if restored to an atmosphere. 

 

And good to have confirmation from Daisy that she wouldn’t have respected Coulson's medical wishes.  At least May just tried to guilt him into it  

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6 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

Timetravel is tricky ^^

If they get Frozen Fitz it looks like they are in a Parallel Universe because if they wake him up he cant get into the Future and help them there= Paradox  

They've already diverged the timeline so that the Earth isn't destroyed, so this Fitz can't get to the version of the future they were trapped in the long way anyway.

I wish they had a more convincing reason why the future could be changed when previously it seemed impossible. I guess Fitz was just wrong, but if so why did they fail with Ruby's Dad?

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I don't think we've seen the last of Talbot.

So Coulsen slipped Daisy the serum and she supercharged up so she could, as Coulsen so elequently put it "beat his ass senseless". Is she all juiced up now?

So the difference maker was Coulsen himself, in that he made the decision that no one else wanted-using the serum to save the world, against saving himself.

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13 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It sure felt like a series finale.  I've been unsure of my impression of Agents of Shield from time to time, but I was left with the feeling that it was a pretty good show after all. 

So the show will be returning next summer with a shortened season.  You have to wonder if Coulson/Clark Gregg will be returning for that.

Sad to see Fitz go, of course.  They said that this proves that the timeline can be changed, but if they go and wake up frozen Fitz, then that means he won't be in the future to save everybody or to come back and die.  Quite the paradox.  I guess they believe everything gets separated into alternate timeline realities, but how can they be completely sure that doing this won't change something, or everything?

So, the killing off of Fitz but then they go off to look for his frozen past self is a bit of a cop-out to me and I thought that there were also at least a few other cop-outs that the show did in this finale. 

The thing is Fitz isn't really gone until Iain De Caestecker (Fitz) decides to leave the show, in my opinion, and/or the show actually does go off the air. They will also probably keep Clark Gregg (Coulson) around as long as possible too. So when they decided to "go out there" looking for Frozen Fitz I wasn't surprised and it also, in my opinion, undercuts Fitz's actual death. Overall, this show was more or less certain that the future can't be changed since Season 3 (see this video for reference) and that they even had Simmons going around calling herself, Yo-Yo, and Fitz "invincible" this season and go around being reckless (to the point where she tricked Mack, broke Fitz out of prison, almost drank poison/acid, locked Mack in Fitz's cell, decided to go investigate a number of possible Hydra sites for the graviton, got captured, fixed the Hydra machine, etc...) which now makes me think that this could be another cop-out, but who knows. Maybe they have decided to change it but the fact that they have another "spare" Fitz on ice somewhere really just undercuts this Fitz's death, for me. Also, the new "spare" Fitz, when unfrozen will have no idea that he got married to Simmons, tortured Daisy (Even though this was something that stems from his time in the Framework, which will probably still be present in the "spare" Fitz), met his possible future grandson that may or may not now exist, etc.... Which means just more drama for Fitz and Simmons and another go-around with roadblocks/setbacks. Honestly, in my opinion, they should've just killed off Simmons because of her arrogance that she felt that she couldn't die because she thought she was destined to have a daughter. 

20 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

I don't think we've seen the last of Talbot.

 

I hope so. And I hope that when we do see Talbot he won't be so far gone like he was at the end of this season. 

Quote

 

So Coulsen slipped Daisy the serum and she supercharged up so she could, as Coulsen so elequently put it "beat his ass senseless". Is she all juiced up now?

 

2

He told Daisy that she was powerful enough to go against Talbot and then he slipped her the serum. 

35 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

Time Travel is not a lazy Storytelling device but its so tricky that most Writer dont get all the strings how are a Attached

I agree that Time Travel isn't lazy but something that needs work/planning to make it fun and enjoyable. Have you ever seen the movie Primer? That movie to me proves that time travel can be a really good story arc. 

41 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

Timetravel is tricky ^^

If they get Frozen Fitz it looks like they are in a Parallel Universe because if they wake him up he cant get into the Future and help them there= Paradox  

I like Timetravel Stories but the Logic in the Storytelling is a mess XD

Edit.

Two Idiots same thought ^^

If they did change the future they are probably already on another timeline so they will have a different future. So no Lighthouse, no humanity under the Kree, (hopefully) no Deke, and frozen Fitz can just wake up and continue to be Fitz but without any memories of him getting married at the Lighthouse, or meeting Deke and realizing that he is his grandson, or realizing that Coulson is dying, etc...

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Before they came up with the "Frozen Fitz" thing, I was expecting Simmons to reveal she was pregnant.  You know, just to explain Deke.

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18 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

So, the killing off of Fitz but then they go off to look for his frozen past self is a bit of a cop-out to me and I thought that there were also at least a few other cop-outs that the show did in this finale. 

The thing is Fitz isn't really gone until Iain De Caestecker (Fitz) decides to leave the show, in my opinion, and/or the show actually does go off the air. They will also probably keep Clark Gregg (Coulson) around as long as possible too. So when they decided to "go out there" looking for Frozen Fitz I wasn't surprised and it also, in my opinion, undercuts Fitz's actual death. Overall, this show was more or less certain that the future can't be changed since Season 3 (see this video for reference) and that they even had Simmons going around calling herself, Yo-Yo, and Fitz "invincible" this season and go around being reckless (to the point where she tricked Mack, broke Fitz out of prison, almost drank poison/acid, locked Mack in Fitz's cell, decided to go investigate a number of possible Hydra sites for the graviton, got captured, fixed the Hydra machine, etc...) which now makes me think that this could be another cop-out, but who knows. Maybe they have decided to change it but the fact that they have another "spare" Fitz on ice somewhere really just undercuts this Fitz's death, for me. Also, the new "spare" Fitz, when unfrozen will have no idea that he got married to Simmons, tortured Daisy (Even though this was something that stems from his time in the Framework, which will probably still be present in the "spare" Fitz), met his possible future grandson that may or may not now exist, etc.... Which means just more drama for Fitz and Simmons and another go-around with roadblocks/setbacks. Honestly, in my opinion, they should've just killed off Simmons because of her arrogance that she felt that she couldn't die because she thought she was destined to have a daughter. 

I hope so. And I hope that when we do see Talbot he won't be so far gone like he was at the end of this season. 

He told Daisy that she was powerful enough to go against Talbot and then he slipped her the serum. 

I agree that Time Travel isn't lazy but something that needs work/planning to make it fun and enjoyable. Have you ever seen the movie Primer? That movie to me proves that time travel can be a really good story arc. 

If they did change the future they are probably already on another timeline so they will have a different future. So no Lighthouse, no humanity under the Kree, (hopefully) no Deke, and frozen Fitz can just wake up and continue to be Fitz but without any memories of him getting married at the Lighthouse, or meeting Deke and realizing that he is his grandson, or realizing that Coulson is dying, etc...

See this is how I felt either YoYo or Simmons needed to go they were the ones talking Invincible and Simmons automatically assuming she was going to have a daughter to thought Fitz got screw a bit I know he done some screwed up things but at least he was not talking Invincible and a daughter 

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15 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

If they did change the future they are probably already on another timeline so they will have a different future. So no Lighthouse, no humanity under the Kree, (hopefully) no Deke, and frozen Fitz can just wake up and continue to be Fitz but without any memories of him getting married at the Lighthouse, or meeting Deke and realizing that he is his grandson, or realizing that Coulson is dying, etc...

They didnt change the Future,they travelt in another Universe.

The Lighthouse Future did happend or they woudnt remember it and tryd to change it.

Time travel Storytelling is quit messy the Storyline in the Series works only then they are in a Parallel Timeline.

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25 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

They didnt change the Future,they travelt in another Universe.

The Lighthouse Future did happend or they woudnt remember it and tryd to change it.

Time travel Storytelling is quit messy the Storyline in the Series works only then they are in a Parallel Timeline.

Yeah, Back to the Future Part II Doc Brown says he and Marty traveled to an alternate 1985 but also says when they go back to the stop Old Biff from giving his younger self the Sports Almanac everything will change around Jennifer who they left sleeping on her porch?

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11 minutes ago, Froippi said:

See this is how I felt either YoYo or Simmons needed to go they were the ones talking Invincible and Simmons automatically assuming she was going to have a daughter to thought Fitz got screw a bit I know he done some screwed up things but at least he was not talking Invincible and a daughter 

I really felt that Simmons should've been the one to go. She was the one who really went crazy with the idea that they were "invincibles" but I guess they chose Fitz because they remembered that Enoch put him under ice. So, in my opinion, there is a spare there and because of this that it was more easy for them to kill off for the finale. Fitz is definitely coming back for the 6th Season. The writers may just have Fitz not appear in the first episode but he will be back. They will find his spare and unfreeze him- in space where these Earth-bound characters shouldn't really go, IMO. 

 

29 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Before they came up with the "Frozen Fitz" thing, I was expecting Simmons to reveal she was pregnant.  You know, just to explain Deke.

Here is a crazy theory but what if Deke isn't Fitz's and/or Simmons' real grandson? What if he used future tech to trick them into thinking he was their grandson because he realized that he literally has no support (financial and also emotional) in the present timeline? I mean he never was able to recognize Fitz and Simmons as his actual grandparent until he got to the present and then he mentioned something about his mother always wearing Simmons' ring which lead to Hale doing the DNA test. Now it could be that he absolutely had no idea who his grandparents were but then he started to talk that his mother told him a lot about them but when he first met Fitz and Simmons he never realized that they were his grandparents? I mean wasn't he shown even a picture of them? Didn't his mother do a genealogy/family tree and showed it to him? Wouldn't that mean that he would at least know their names?

 

4 hours ago, blueray said:

 And obviously them finding Fitz. I was glad that they didn't show Deke, as that would have answered that they found him or worse that Simmon's is pregnant, which would make no sense. As those two really had no time to do anything.  Anyhow, great episode.

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As with Simmons being possibly pregnant:

Please, no baby. Not even a "Fitz/Simmons" baby should ever be on this show because this show has already jumped the shark so many times already. Robin, Deathlok's son, and Hope should be the only characters that are/were kids on this show. No baby. Please no. Also, when did they find the time to do it (and yeah, I know that this is TV and it's pretty much anything that the writers want will happen- even if it defies logic and people in real life really like to fuck and all that.....) because they seem way too busy for anything else. Simmons and Fitz were separated from each other at the end of Season 4. Then Fitz spent the next 6 months in a military holding cell and was broken out. Then he was put on ice for the next 70+ years. Then he found his friends, they had their future adventure, then they went back to the present. Then they got married, but then Fitz tortures Daisy. Then Daisy (rightfully) places Fitz into a holding cell. Simmons, Deke, and Yo-Yo broke out Fitz and went to England to hunt down that Hydra machine. Then they got captured by Ruby, and then the whole thing with the Gravitron happened. Then Fitz dies but Simmons wants to go out looking for Frozen Fitz. 

14 minutes ago, Andrew Wiggin said:

They didnt change the Future,they travelt in another Universe.

The Lighthouse Future did happend or they woudnt remember it and tryd to change it.

Time travel Storytelling is quit messy the Storyline in the Series works only then they are in a Parallel Timeline.

Well, here is what I understand from this story:

 

Enoch sends all of the team members to the future. The Lighthouse wasn't some alternative universe but their actual future that they were heading for/on the path leading up to it. To me, this was confirmed by the fact that Enoch just put Fitz on ice and had him wake up 70+ years into the future. Fitz didn't travel into some alternative universe or something. Hell, he didn't time travel into the future, unlike the others. He was pretty much  Captain America-esque frozen until woken up, some 70+ years later (much like Captain America). So the assumption is that this was supposed to be the future they were heading for but they went back to the present and (supposedly by this episode) has changed it/stop it. Now, presumably, the future is going to be different thus they are going to create another alternate reality/universe for any future actions. 

 

So they did trime travel but they created another timeline through their actions. 

 

The question is, should they wake up Fitz from his frozen slumber? I would guess that they will (because the writer says so)

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So yeah, the finale certainly had a lot resting on it to wrap up five seasons worth of stories - I mean, they couldn't be sure they were coming back for a sixth season. All that considered, I thought the writers did a great job here. The final battle in Chicago reminded a lot of the Battle of New York from the first Avengers in an aesthetic kind of way, and also how the agents made it a point to focus on saving civilians as the Avengers did. The Quake vs Graviton battle was shorter than I wanted it to be, but at least we still got an amazing almost-movie level battle for as little as it lasted. Was smart and selfless of Coulson to leave the cure in Daisy's gauntlet, and luckily that bit of strategic play was able to turn the tables on Talbot and heighten the fuck out of Daisy's powers. Loved the shot of Daisy quaking Talbot into space, but I do have to say that I wish there could of been a way to spare him under all that Graviton-ugliness. 

Now that the show's renewed, I do wonder what this means for Coulson's ultimate fate. Smart of them to give him an ending at Tahiti (and with May), but now they're gonna have to decide if they're gonna follow through with having him die. At this point, it would feel natural, but then again how does the show go on without Phil Coulson? It'll feel odd if they do, but I think Daisy stepping into center place fully would be able to help me get through the possibility.

Edited by teenj12
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I thought the ship was blowed up good last episode. I don't even know why Talbot needed to go back and collect the (substantially intact) remains. Given there was a whole lake on which he could have set down the ship, when he was going on about having to accept collateral damage I wanted Daisy to retort, "'Collateral Damage'? Soldier, you've been going around actively looking for collateral to damage!"

Edited by Terrafamilia
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I keep thinking it was probably unwise to leave a gravitonium-filled Talbot floating around in space since they know there are aliens out there looking for gravitonium.  I guess the aliens could just take Talbot and leave the earth alone so maybe it's not that bad.

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