S02.E03: Baggage

[Sbeetle]

That episode was rough y’all. I had to stop it for an hour at the 40 minute mark when June was changing into the Econowife’s outfit. 

I get June’s not exactly a spy, but her lack of common sense was unbearable for me. When she was looking out the window and stomping around the apartment? I was so tense I had a hot flash. 

As for people “chosen” as Handmaidens, I thought they were criminals, divorcées, and adulterers. They weren’t picking legitimately single women yet were they? I mean, they have to keep some around to marry soldiers, right? 

I definitely think we will see that Econowife as a Handmaiden. The show may as well have used a neon sign.

I can definitely see why the next leg of a trip was unknown to the courier. 

Spoiler

I wonder when they’re going to refer to it as the Underground Femaleroad like in the book’s epilogue.

[Maricopa]

Don't overlook the musical score. It's brilliant and contributes greatly to our feelings of malaise.

[Eureka]

7 hours ago, littlemommy said:

I got kind of unnecessarily hung up on wondering where all those econowives were going on the train. They can’t work and no had shopping bags or anything. Where the hell was everyone silently going?

Lol, me too. I said to DS (we watch together) “Where are they going? We know they don’t work other than to raise their families.”

[littlemommy]

22 minutes ago, Eureka said:

Lol, me too. I said to DS (we watch together) “Where are they going? We know they don’t work other than to raise their families.”

And it was evening—after 5p sometime. But they were all heading somewhere, and without their male headships. Isn’t a woman’s place in the home in Gilead, not making trips on the train?

I kid, of course, I know it was all just a vehicle to get June out of the area with the cover of other women—I just like picking apart TV shows and movies. ;)

[AllyB]

I also wondered where they were going. If it had been earlier in the day, after church but while the children were in school and the husbands were at work, I would have assumed they were going shopping or to some sort of "volunteer" activity to support the active duty soldiers. But it was 5-6pm-ish, they would be at home with their children (if they had them) and preparing meals for their husbands who would probably be returning from work soon. I also thought that they would never have just sat on the train without doing anything. They would all have been doing some sort of practical craftwork like knitting, sewing, crochet, etc.

One thing I did like about the episode (very surprisingly) was Luke. When his previously mute friend joked to Moira you could see his shock and delight that she had spoken. But he stayed where he was, pretending to be asleep because he obviously recognised what a big and important moment it was for her and didn't make it all about him. I think that pre-Gilead Luke wouldn't have contained his response, he would have made his excitement known and also his somewhat butt-hurt feelings that he wasn't the one she first spoke to. So this version of Luke has obviously grown. It was a small almost unnoticeable moment but it showed such growth and maturity that it made me appreciate him for the first time ever.

Edited May 3, 2018 by AllyB

[Catfi9ht]

9 hours ago, kittykat said:

From what I understand by Gileadean standards, the Eco families are nuclear, fruitful families.  The men were Gilead loyalists (or pledged/pretended after takeover) and held regular jobs/are soldiers, basically your Gilead working class.  Their marriages, even if the wife was child-bearing, were allowed to remain intact if they were compliant of Gilead laws (no prior divorces, man and woman).  Women, widowed or unmarried, I believe qualify for handmaiden status.  And as Umbelina said above there's no reason why Gilead wouldn't just change the laws.  I wouldn't put it past them to grab Eco Wives if there was a sudden handmaiden shortage because Gilead logic!

For example, why weren't June and Luke an eco family?  Because Luke was married beforehand and since all divorces were nullified Luke is still married to his first wife by Gilead law.  June in Gilead eyes was his adultering mistress and slut (THEIR WORDS NOT MINE), who sired a bastard.  

Thanks for the explanation. With all the beautiful world building this show does, I wonder why they didn't bother explaining that in the show yet or did they and I forgot or missed it?

 

My main issue with the show is the fact that part of the United States is essentially a nuclear wasteland. I have a hard time believing the US would let that occur outside of nuclear detonation. Without getting too political here, even those people and politicians who don't believe in protecting the environment seem to be capitalists at heart. Losing the ability to farm parts of the US would be a loss of revenue and export income since we supply a huge part of the world's food supply. I know we've heard Patty's explanation a bunch of times about how people ruined the planet, but has the show actually explained how and when it happened? I don't remember it being talked shown or discussed in the flashbacks. What makes the most sense, in my mind, is the Gileadians used nuclear weapons to cement their power and deter future uprisings and of course, are spinning the story however they want. My apologies if this has been covered in a previous thread.

 

One thing I do love about the show is it makes me think "Where would that line be for me?" with regards to nut jobs taking over the government and slowly changing the laws to take away rights. Would I choose to fight? What would be that line in the sand where I would begin to fight or want to flee? 

[ChromaKelly]

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

IKR? They tell her to keep a low profile in the apartment and the first thing she does is to go to the window. LOL!

The ending was intense but a lot of this ep felt like filler to me, especially when they show scenes from previous eps.

I kept yelling at her to stop peeking out the damn window! AAAHHH!!! I thought for sure she was going to drop one of those marbles and it would go loudly rolling across the floor. Has she never read The Diary of Anne Frank? They had to remain motionless during the day.

[EdnasEdibles]

What I loved about this episode is that it really looked at that issue of what you think you'd do and what you actually would do in a situation. Her mom was bold and loud and protested but still was captured and put in the colonies. The wife told June "I would sooner die than let someone take my child" and June saying "That's what I thought too" (or something like that). And then the man that Moira meets who tells her that he was forced to be a soldier and hang gender traitors including a former boyfriend. Is it weakness or fear to just follow orders or not die in the process of saving others or is it a survival instinct to preserve your own life and keep going no matter what? Or is it that slow boil where you do smaller things and accept smaller things until bit by bit you're doing terrible things and accepting terrible things and you have no idea how you got there.

Also, my dystopian stories are getting confused in my head and the silent roommate threw me for a loop. I thought she had her tongue cut out and then she spoke and I was like "Wait, isn't she tongueless?" and then I remembered I was thinking of a character in Hunger Games. Not The Handmaid's Tale. Blessed be the Froot Loops. 

[chaifan]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

Why wouldn't an econowife who is fertile not be conscripted into handmaid service?  

 

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I think June herself explained it perfectly in her voiceover as she was entering the apartment building:

 

Gilead made adultery - i.e. divorce and remarriage - a crime, so June was retroactively classified as a criminal. Omar's wife hasn't (yet) done anything that Gilead considers a crime, so she was allowed to stay with her husband and child. I think the show really stressed the parallels between June's and Omar's families by having both families be interracial and having children around the same age. The only apparent difference was that Omar hadn't been married before and Luke had.

I understand June's explanation.  But in a society where the upper class/elite are barren, I'm surprised that any fertile woman - even those that play by the rules - aren't conscripted into the handmaid service.  It doesn't appear there are enough handmaids for the upper class families, so I just assumed that any fertile woman would be fair game. 

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

 

I understand June's explanation.  But in a society where the upper class/elite are barren, I'm surprised that any fertile woman - even those that play by the rules - aren't conscripted into the handmaid service.  It doesn't appear there are enough handmaids for the upper class families, so I just assumed that any fertile woman would be fair game. 

As I said earlier in the thread?  The Sons of Jacob regime is, in public anyway, very supportive of traditional families, and I'm using "traditional" meaning they conform to Gilead's re-written bible and laws.  That's the entire stated purpose of their political agenda, heal the earth, and a non sinning man, non sinning woman being married and having children, while worshiping as they dictate. 

They couldn't kill or enslave everyone in Gilead all at once.  The Commanders are a handful of men, and they at least have to pretend to be supporting the "righteous" citizens, or they would have no army, and no one to do the blue-collar, and low level white collar work in their nation.

Now could they change their minds and snatch a few fertile women of their choice up from the Econwives class?  Of course, at any moment, for any one of them.  They might not even have to formally charge them with crimes, real or unreal.  It's all up to them now, everything is up to them.  Citizens are powerless, except for those Resisting, in the wars against Gilead, or locally, helping people to escape.  If they did a search and found that Koran, for example?  The wife would be a Handmaid, the kid would belong to some powerful family, and the husband would be dead.

5 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

Thanks for the explanation. With all the beautiful world building this show does, I wonder why they didn't bother explaining that in the show yet or did they and I forgot or missed it?

 

My main issue with the show is the fact that part of the United States is essentially a nuclear wasteland. I have a hard time believing the US would let that occur outside of nuclear detonation. Without getting too political here, even those people and politicians who don't believe in protecting the environment seem to be capitalists at heart. Losing the ability to farm parts of the US would be a loss of revenue and export income since we supply a huge part of the world's food supply. I know we've heard Patty's explanation a bunch of times about how people ruined the planet, but has the show actually explained how and when it happened? I don't remember it being talked shown or discussed in the flashbacks. What makes the most sense, in my mind, is the Gileadians used nuclear weapons to cement their power and deter future uprisings and of course, are spinning the story however they want. My apologies if this has been covered in a previous thread.

 

One thing I do love about the show is it makes me think "Where would that line be for me?" with regards to nut jobs taking over the government and slowly changing the laws to take away rights. Would I choose to fight? What would be that line in the sand where I would begin to fight or want to flee? 

It's hard to remember exactly what the show has said, versus the book.  I'm pretty sure that June's voice over, or at other places in the first season, like the Mexico episodes, it was explained.  Anyway, there were nuclear power plant disasters, which is why Emily is cleaning up the fall out from one of those.  There were other ecological issues as well, caused by humans such as contaminated air, water, chemical over use poisoning food, weather changes disrupting  everything...   Basically the same things people are protesting and concerned about today.

I think the show, oddly timed with our last Presidential election results, is making many of us wonder that right now.  Where is our line?  When would we leave?  What is worth protesting?  We are seeing so much of it happen right now.  Attacks on women's rights, and women themselves.  Reduction in pollution controls.  The Press is being attacked daily.  Our elections may have been tampered with.  "Bring GOD back into schools!" Racial profiling is constant.  ICE is already acting in the USA just as they did at that airport with Emily, no warrants.   Attacks on religions other than Christians.  Forced patriotism and nationalism.  Huge protests against all of those things above, and suggestions already made by some of our leaders that mowing the protesters down with cars is a good idea?

Much of what Atwood wrote, and the show is saying is happening all around us right now.

Where is your line?  Only you know that.

I think, just like in Gilead?  Some would be very supportive of all that, some would protest, some would leave, some would be riding it all out and hoping for the best, or assuming sanity would prevail eventually.  Some would ignore it, because it wasn't happening to THEM yet. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[Shangrilala]

I think this is the first handmaid's tale episode where I got bored.  There was too much waiting around.  Scenes of nothing lasted too long.  Perhaps that was intentional?  If 2 minutes of June running the globe offices felt long to me, imagine how long 2 months in there felt for her?  Did I need to see her peek out the window so many times?  Just once would have been sufficient.  I could have seen her tapping her feet, not tapping her feet, arranging toys and flashing back to arranging toys.  It was a dead space episode.  

And like her first attempt at escape, she got overly comfortable while she waited.  Letting Nick stay later.  Peeking out the window. Stomping around the apartment.  And I do agree with the assessment that she shouldn't have gone to the airfield, knowing that prior step had been compromised.  Up until now, nobody seemed to know what came next in the rescue attempt.  However, the guy who picked her up from the Globe told her that it was a safe house and then to the airfield where the black market planes make their flights.  If he knew that much, then the safe house knew plenty as well.  I know the only other alternative is to go by foot, like Moira, but I don't see how that was less risky than a compromised escape route.  

I'm also mixing up my dystopian tv/movies/novels.  I expected a hovercraft to show up while she ran through the fields.  

Did anybody else want to read the Boston Globe clippings?  I'm so curious how American society got to the point it did.  

Quote

When would we leave?  

I would leave the minute the attack on the government happened.  NOTHING good will come of something like that. 

[stephinmn]

There is an interesting documentary on Netflix titled, "The Push".  It follows one man who goes from just a normal person to being pressured to push a living man off of a building. It also gives the results of four other people who were put into the same situation. No particulars, but most of the people did indeed push the man off the building, believing it would kill him.

There are plenty of other experiments that prove humans will indeed kill other innocent people if it means they get something out of it. We had an entire war in which this happened. 

[Umbelina]

33 minutes ago, Shangrilala said:

Did anybody else want to read the Boston Globe clippings?  I'm so curious how American society got to the point it did.  

I would leave the minute the attack on the government happened.  NOTHING good will come of something like that. 

I think the show has done a pretty good job of showing us what those clippings were about, but yeah, it would have been so cool to be able to read them!

Martial Law was declared immediately after Congress and the President were killed, and it was blamed on Muslim extremists.  After 9-11 patriotism and a banding together seemed to rise, not fall. 

If you were very close to a border you might be able to leave before everything was closed, but most of the USA isn't really close to borders, unless the oceans count, and even then, you'd need a boat, or private plane. 

From that airport scene, it seems they were only letting non-USA citizens leave, but it was chaotic, so we don't know for sure.  With Martial Law, I'm kind of assuming all travel would be restricted, and the regular border crossings difficult, but if one had a car and knew back roads, getting to Mexico or Canada may have worked by car, then again, they could easily close all gas stations.  For women, you would also have no money of your own to spend for buying gas, so you'd have to have a man with you.

It gets messy and scary to think about.

[Anela]

Oh, shit. Did they follow her, or that man? Damn, I was hoping she'd made it out of there, although I said really loudly, "What if they have men in the woods?!" I rarely yell at what I'm watching. I don't want to see where she ends up.

Since this was renewed for season three (my thought was actually "ugh" when I first heard, because it's so heavy), I want her to be free of them by the end of this season, and to have the third one show some kind of ending to Gilead. 

[EdnasEdibles]

Even with leaving right after the attack on the government happened, I'd like to THINK I would but it's so much more complicated. I'm divorced so if my ex stayed and didn't want me to take the kids, I'd stay so I'm close to my kids. I'm not going to escape the country if my children are still here. If my parents couldn't get out, I'd probably stay to make sure they're OK not imagining June's reality. I'd probably think "My family is here. I have a job. I have a home. What's the worst that could happen?" and then blammo - you go into work one day and you're fired and weeks later you're a handmaiden. 

[Snewtsie]

3 hours ago, stephinmn said:

There is an interesting documentary on Netflix titled, "The Push".  It follows one man who goes from just a normal person to being pressured to push a living man off of a building. It also gives the results of four other people who were put into the same situation. No particulars, but most of the people did indeed push the man off the building, believing it would kill him.

There are plenty of other experiments that prove humans will indeed kill other innocent people if it means they get something out of it. We had an entire war in which this happened. 

This is horrifying.

[Umbelina]

28 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Even with leaving right after the attack on the government happened, I'd like to THINK I would but it's so much more complicated. I'm divorced so if my ex stayed and didn't want me to take the kids, I'd stay so I'm close to my kids. I'm not going to escape the country if my children are still here. If my parents couldn't get out, I'd probably stay to make sure they're OK not imagining June's reality. I'd probably think "My family is here. I have a job. I have a home. What's the worst that could happen?" and then blammo - you go into work one day and you're fired and weeks later you're a handmaiden. 

Yes, it gets very complicated for most people.  Health issues could be another complication.  As I said earlier, for women, not having any money would complicate things as well.  I think many people have already contemplated leaving the USA because of things that are happening currently, but it's just not quite that simple. 

When escape might have been a bit easier, the moment the congress and president were killed?  As far as anyone knew, our country had been attacked and we were at war with the attackers, so patriotism played into why people accepted so many of the "necessary" martial law rules and forfeiture of rights.  We gave up many civil rights after 9-11 as well, and we still don't have them back, but mass exodus wasn't the response.  With true martial law, good luck getting anywhere, and that happened immediately.

ETA

That's when I would have left by the way, the moment they took all my money away.  One way or another, using anything or anyone I needed to use?  I'd be crawling to Canada, which is closer to me, or possibly to Mexico if getting some kind of a lift, such as a boat was easier.  The season might also dictate which direction I would go.  But go?  I would.  I'd be urging my family and friends to do the same.  Then again, age could prevent many options from happening as well, the long hike, or seducing someone to allow me on their boat would be much more difficult options if one were older, and with no money for bribes or gas?  *shudder*

Either way?  That would have been the moment I tried to run.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[Ceindreadh]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

 

I understand June's explanation.  But in a society where the upper class/elite are barren, I'm surprised that any fertile woman - even those that play by the rules - aren't conscripted into the handmaid service.  It doesn't appear there are enough handmaids for the upper class families, so I just assumed that any fertile woman would be fair game. 

I thought the wife said something about not being too fertile or something like that, that gave me the impression that if she’d started popping out too many kids with her husband then she’d end up being forced to be a Handmaids. 

 

I was was convinced that June would change her mind and stay in Gilead to try and rescu Hannah. Every time she thought of her I was shouting at the screen to just keep going dammit because she’d have a better chance of saving her as a refugee in Canada than a Handmaid in Gilead!

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ceindreadh

[meatball77]

It's not even moving out of the US.  There's plenty of people in the country now who are living lives that would be much easier if they lived in other US states.  Teachers living in Oklahoma, people of color living in the rural south, anyone who isn't wealthy living in San Fransisco or NYC, people who are unemployed and living in small towns where all industry is fled.  It's easy to say just move but realistically it's not that easy.

I loved blessed be the fruit loops

I wasn't confused as to why the women were on the trains, I was wondering how they were allowed to travel alone.  Even the Aunts didn't travel alone.

The apartment building reminded me of Soviet Russia.  Keep everyone living close to each other and encourage them to tattle.

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

I thought the wife said something about not being too fertile or something like that, that gave me the impression that if she’d started popping out too many kids with her husband then she’d end up being forced to be a Handmaids. 

 

I was was convinced that June would change her mind and stay in Gilead to try and rescu Hannah. Every time she thought of her I was shouting at the screen to just keep going dammit because she’d have a better chance of saving her as a refugee in Canada than a Handmaid in Gilead!

I think the Eco wife said “that’s what they THREATEN us with if we are fertile”, meaning if eco families step out of line they will be split up with the women forced to be Handmaids. 

19 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

It's not even moving out of the US.  There's plenty of people in the country now who are living lives that would be much easier if they lived in other US states.  Teachers living in Oklahoma, people of color living in the rural south, anyone who isn't wealthy living in San Fransisco or NYC, people who are unemployed and living in small towns where all industry is fled.  It's easy to say just move but realistically it's not that easy.

I loved blessed be the fruit loops

I wasn't confused as to why the women were on the trains, I was wondering how they were allowed to travel alone.  Even the Aunts didn't travel alone.

The apartment building reminded me of Soviet Russia.  Keep everyone living close to each other and encourage them to tattle.

I love this entire post. 

I expected the Eco wives to travel in twos or groups for errands and socializing as well. 

[AnswersWanted]

16 hours ago, Sbeetle said:

I get June’s not exactly a spy, but her lack of common sense was unbearable for me. When she was looking out the window and stomping around the apartment? I was so tense I had a hot flash. 

 

8 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I kept yelling at her to stop peeking out the damn window! AAAHHH!!! I thought for sure she was going to drop one of those marbles and it would go loudly rolling across the floor. Has she never read The Diary of Anne Frank? They had to remain motionless during the day.

 

Couldn’t agree more with you both.

What a great reference to the Anne Frank factor, it is something I actually thought about myself. It is as simple as playing a decent game of hide and go seek, you find the best place to hide, the objective is to make a little noise as possible, be as unnoticeable as possible, and to not reveal yourself in anyway.

 I am of the personal opinion that it was not asking too much to expect June to not make so much noise messing around with trinkets and toys and walking around in an apartment that everyone would assume should be empty. I would not equate that to her somehow needing to have some sort of super spy background to know better. To me, it just makes more sense when you’re hiding from people to hide well, or as well as possible and spend your time thinking up escape routes not playing house keeper. 

 She even admitted that she waited until it was “almost” 5 o’clock after she’d been promised they would be back at 2 o’clock, it was just...frustrating for me to see all the missed opportunities. 

 

4 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

I think this is the first handmaid's tale episode where I got bored.  There was too much waiting around.  Scenes of nothing lasted too long.  Perhaps that was intentional?  If 2 minutes of June running the globe offices felt long to me, imagine how long 2 months in there felt for her?  Did I need to see her peek out the window so many times?  Just once would have been sufficient.  I could have seen her tapping her feet, not tapping her feet, arranging toys and flashing back to arranging toys.  It was a dead space episode.  

And like her first attempt at escape, she got overly comfortable while she waited.  Letting Nick stay later.  Peeking out the window. Stomping around the apartment.  And I do agree with the assessment that she shouldn't have gone to the airfield, knowing that prior step had been compromised.  Up until now, nobody seemed to know what came next in the rescue attempt.  However, the guy who picked her up from the Globe told her that it was a safe house and then to the airfield where the black market planes make their flights.  If he knew that much, then the safe house knew plenty as well.  I know the only other alternative is to go by foot, like Moira, but I don't see how that was less risky than a compromised escape route.  

 

 I thought those scenes were fairly useless as well, if only because they showed June, as you said, acting way too comfortably for a woman on the run. They showed her behaving in a way that would bring attention to her and that was just something she could not afford. 

I  feel as if they have June take three steps forwards and then two steps back, and I get that they’re trying to expand on the story but I also think it gets to a point where it just doesn’t make sense.  

[Eureka]

12 hours ago, littlemommy said:

And it was evening—after 5p sometime. But they were all heading somewhere, and without their male headships. Isn’t a woman’s place in the home in Gilead, not making trips on the train?

I kid, of course, I know it was all just a vehicle to get June out of the area with the cover of other women—I just like picking apart TV shows and movies. ;)

You and me both. Dh and DS always get on my case (jokingly) because I don’t suspend reality very well when watching movies and tv.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, it gets very complicated for most people.  Health issues could be another complication.  As I said earlier, for women, not having any money would complicate things as well.  I think many people have already contemplated leaving the USA because of things that are happening currently, but it's just not quite that simple. 

When escape might have been a bit easier, the moment the congress and president were killed?  As far as anyone knew, our country had been attacked and we were at war with the attackers, so patriotism played into why people accepted so many of the "necessary" martial law rules and forfeiture of rights.  We gave up many civil rights after 9-11 as well, and we still don't have them back, but mass exodus wasn't the response.  With true martial law, good luck getting anywhere, and that happened immediately.

ETA

That's when I would have left by the way, the moment they took all my money away.  One way or another, using anything or anyone I needed to use?  I'd be crawling to Canada, which is closer to me, or possibly to Mexico if getting some kind of a lift, such as a boat was easier.  The season might also dictate which direction I would go.  But go?  I would.  I'd be urging my family and friends to do the same.  Then again, age could prevent many options from happening as well, the long hike, or seducing someone to allow me on their boat would be much more difficult options if one were older, and with no money for bribes or gas?  *shudder*

Either way?  That would have been the moment I tried to run.

This is encouraging me to get my passport renewed. I have an American passport, but I was born in England, so I should have dual citizenship - they let me right through when I was a teenager and we went back after visiting California. I'd have been worried about leaving my sister, although she should have dual citizenship, too (despite being born in California - mum was English), but she's safely ensconced in Canada now. 

I would have found a way out when they took the money, too. And fired all of the women. Although I hardly have any money. We're four hours away from Canada. I'd rather drown in Lake Erie, than become a handmaid, or Aunt. 

[kieyra]

Can anyone explain the dynamic between Luke, Moira, and the third roommate? I didn’t quite get what was going on there. Moira was nagging Luke about something, and why were they both giving the third roommate a hard time? Like when Moira said “You? Go fuck yourself.” to the girl. I couldn’t tell if it was just good-natured ribbing, or what was happening.

Was the one-sided sex scene with Moira supposed to indicate to us that she had the same FGM done to her as Emily? I might have missed that in S1, I actually couldn’t bear to watch all the episodes. It was still too soon.

As for June’s recklessness, I think the theme of her mother nagging her for being too passive was supposed to be her motivator there. She was finally refusing to do *nothing*. But yes, she was weirdly reckless.

Edited May 4, 2018 by kieyra

[Umbelina]

29 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Can anyone explain the dynamic between Luke, Moira, and the third roommate? I didn’t quite get what was going on there. Moira was nagging Luke about something, and why were they both giving the third roommate a hard time? Like when Moira said “You? Go fuck yourself.” to the girl. I couldn’t tell if it was just good-natured ribbing, or what was happening.

Was the one-sided sex scene with Moira supposed to indicate to us that she had the same FGM done to her as Emily? I might have missed that in

Luke and Moira share a place because they know each other, they are "family" now.  The blond roommate hasn't spoken since she arrived in Canada, Luke was worried for her, so she's moved in.

Moira came in from her night in the bar, very upset obviously, and just lashed out with a little "fuck you too" and the roommate (what IS her name?) responded with "Blessed be the Fruit Loops" which made everyone laugh.

No, Moira didn't have her clitoris removed, I think she's just suffering from PTSD from all of it, being a handmaid, and being in Jezebels, she was able to go THAT far, but no further yet, and she called herself by her Jezebel name too, Ruby.

[Lemons]

On 5/2/2018 at 1:05 PM, chocolatine said:

The man who picked her up at the roadsigns warehouse initially told her she'd be brought to a safe house and from there to an airfield where a pilot regularly flies a puddle jumper to Canada; that was when he gave June the map. Then he got the call that the safe house was compromised and the plan changed, but June still had the map and the information about the airfield.

That kind of bugged me that there was an airstrip.  There is no way they would leave that as is and usable.  

I’m having a hard time with them getting the Boston landscape should wrong.  If they are going to use real places at least do a better job.  They made it look like the Globe was surrounded by trees instead of being in an industrial area.  And it would take an hour to go just west of Worcester so why was it light when they got there? 

I hope they show more of what’s going on in Canada.  The people who escaped need to get moving with a big plan.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

Can anyone explain the dynamic between Luke, Moira, and the third roommate? I didn’t quite get what was going on there. Moira was nagging Luke about something, and why were they both giving the third roommate a hard time? Like when Moira said “You? Go fuck yourself.” to the girl. I couldn’t tell if it was just good-natured ribbing, or what was happening.

 

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Luke and Moira share a place because they know each other, they are "family" now.  The blond roommate hasn't spoken since she arrived in Canada, Luke was worried for her, so she's moved in.

Weren't Luke and Erin (that's the character's name according to IMBD) the only two people who survived the escape to Canada? And Erin had a tag in her ear and was visibly traumatized from whatever was done to her, so I thought Luke saw her as a proxy for June; that if he couldn't do anything to help June, at least he could take care of Erin and make her feel safe.

14 minutes ago, Lemons said:

That kind of bugged me that there was an airstrip.  There is no way they would leave that as is and usable.  

I didn't think that about the airstrip - it seems like people would still be transporting cargo - but I did think it was weird that The Boston Globe building would be empty after all those years. In the book, June often pointed out how one building or the other - university, bookstore, etc. - was repurposed by Gilead. I'd think it would be just like Gilead to turn the Globe offices into some kind of propaganda center.

[Lemons]

18 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

 

Weren't Luke and Erin (that's the character's name according to IMBD) the only two people who survived the escape to Canada? And Erin had a tag in her ear and was visibly traumatized from whatever was done to her, so I thought Luke saw her as a proxy for June; that if he couldn't do anything to help June, at least he could take care of Erin and make her feel safe.

I didn't think that about the airstrip - it seems like people would still be transporting cargo - but I did think it was weird that The Boston Globe building would be empty after all those years. In the book, June often pointed out how one building or the other - university, bookstore, etc. - was repurposed by Gilead. I'd think it would be just like Gilead to turn the Globe offices into some kind of propaganda center.

True about the airstrip but I would think if they still used it they would guard it 24 hours a day.  They had machine guns at apartment complexes but none at an airstrip?

Since the troopers came, does that mean the family told on June?

[chocolatine]

Just now, Lemons said:

Since the troopers came, does that mean the family told on June?

I don't think so. We know that part of that pipeline was already compromised; that's why Omar couldn't take June to the safe house as planned. Omar and his family were supposed to be back by 2pm that day, and they still weren't back by 5pm. If they had told, I'm sure guards would have immediately come for June. Plus, there's really no way for them to tell on her without exposing themselves as resistance fighters. There was also that driver who was trying to escape alongside June; the troopers may have tailed him.

[millennium]

On 5/2/2018 at 2:15 AM, VagueDisclaimer said:

Outside of opening that map(which didn’t cause a problem), what else was June supposed to do, though? 

Oh, I don't know -- maybe not stand in front of the damn apartment window when she's supposed to be in hiding and the apartment's supposed to be empty?  Not demand that Omar take her with him despite that her hiding place appeared as yet uncompromised?   Not dash across a wide open field in broad daylight?   

Sorry, but who the hell is June to go poking through Omar's personal stuff, looking at his Koran and unfolding his prayer mat?   What a violation, and what a way to treat someone who risked his family's life to help her.   But it seems June has zero regard for the people who put themselves on the line for her sake.   From what I see, she treats them like crap.   She's pissy.  Demanding.   Wife says, "Don't touch anything," probably fearing fingerprints.  A minute later June has her hands all over the kids' toys.  wtf?

I'm pretty much hate-watching this show now, at least the June portion of it.   I'm already weary of the prolonged close-ups of Elizabeth Moss' Emmy reel face.  I really don't like June at all.   Every week she gives me more reasons.

And Cherry Jones?  Really?   Is there an older feminist lesbian role on TV that she doesn't get? 

Edited May 4, 2018 by millennium

[Helena Dax]

The ending was a bit cheap and lots of parts were boring. I liked to see how ecofamilies live, though.

I guess they won't punish June physically because she's pregnant, but she's just on borrowed time. 

I can understand why June didn't respect Omar's privacy; she's been living in a world where such thing doesn't exist. I only wanted to scream at her when she was looking through the window. 

[littlesue]

7 hours ago, Lemons said:

I hope they show more of what’s going on in Canada.  The people who escaped need to get moving with a big plan.

That's what I've been thinking about. In Season1 when Luke had his meeting with the authorities and was given the message from June, it seemed to me that he was to have a meeting the other day and talk about resistance, but also that the lady wasn't too interested in it. And in the latest episode they talked about how they were preparing something at the border, if I heard it right?

I mean in reality there are and have been regimes as brutal as Gilead or worse. And other nations only intervened when they were attacked (WW II) or if they had advantages from it. We already learned that Mexico wants to trade handmaids with Gilead and so definitely won't attack them (this also seems familiar to me in the real world..). So I'm not too optimistic about Canada to help the refugees rescue their loved ones or defeat the regime. The only point is they seem to be low on resources (they had no coffee e.g.) which is a consquence of the war/situation. So they might want to fight Gilead for economical reasons.

I like the idea that Canada might smuggle an "underground army" of refugees (who want to rescue their family members) into the Gilead System to get in contact with the resistance and make the system fall. I thought that June might make it to Canada and be part of this.

[Scarlett45]

I understand why June didn’t want to stay at the structure with the street signs- after two months alone in the Globe building, at least it had heat and running water; if Omar didn’t take her with him who knows when someone would’ve come for her. 

I agree that looking through the window and touching everything in sight was a piss poor idea, but leaving when she did was the best option at the time. I do think someone followed the guy who drove the commander and that’s how the plane was compromised. 

[Whimsy]

8 hours ago, Lemons said:

I’m having a hard time with them getting the Boston landscape should wrong.  If they are going to use real places at least do a better job.  They made it look like the Globe was surrounded by trees instead of being in an industrial area.  And it would take an hour to go just west of Worcester so why was it light when they got there? 

Yeah, but I was thrilled that guy pronounced Worcester correctly.  That was a step in the right direction.  

I was actually annoyed with June when she was pleading to be taken to the "safe" house.  The driver said it was compromised and it wasn't safe.  I do not understand at all why she still begged to go to this compromised place.  I really don't.  I get that she didn't want to wait anymore, but wouldn't it have been safer for her to go back inside that building and wait?  Maybe they would've found another safe house and then proceeded with the rescue mission.  Am I missing something?  

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Whimsy said:

Yeah, but I was thrilled that guy pronounced Worcester correctly.  That was a step in the right direction.  

I was actually annoyed with June when she was pleading to be taken to the "safe" house.  The driver said it was compromised and it wasn't safe.  I do not understand at all why she still begged to go to this compromised place.  I really don't.  I get that she didn't want to wait anymore, but wouldn't it have been safer for her to go back inside that building and wait?  Maybe they would've found another safe house and then proceeded with the rescue mission.  Am I missing something?  

I don’t think June was begging to go to a compromised Safe house, she just wanted to go SOMEWHERE and not be left again in a deserted building (which didn’t have heat or plumbing like the Globe) not knowing if someone (good or bad- was coming for her); so Omar took her to his house. 

June’s psychological state right now isn’t the best. She’s still like a trapped hampster in a cage waiting on others. She was tired of being a sitting duck- that I understand. 

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think June was begging to go to a compromised Safe house, she just wanted to go SOMEWHERE and not be left again in a deserted building (which didn’t have heat or plumbing like the Globe) not knowing if someone (good or bad- was coming for her); so Omar took her to his house. 

June’s psychological state right now isn’t the best. She’s still like a trapped hampster in a cage waiting on others. She was tired of being a sitting duck- that I understand. 

I guess that makes sense.  It still bothered me, though, because the driver was freaked out and was probably in fear for himself too and she just didn't care.  But, desperate people go to desperate measures and all that. 

[Shangrilala]

Quote

I think the show has done a pretty good job of showing us what those clippings were about, but yeah, it would have been so cool to be able to read them!

I agree, they've shown a lot.  But I'm hungry for so much more.  Because we keep getting these little nuggets -- the nurse in the hospital saying Praise Be when Hannah was born.  Men needing to approve a birth control refill for their wife.  The growth of the Sons of Jacobs as a movement.  The various points of data collection, which from what I can tell, began before the attack on the government.  All of these indications that much of Gilead existed in the undercurrents of society.  June says it herself...it was always there.  I want more of that. 

 

Quote

From that airport scene, it seems they were only letting non-USA citizens leave, but it was chaotic, so we don't know for sure. 

I'm willing to bet that they didn't really non-USA citizens out.  Don't they say in the book that they let the Jews leave and return to Israel and they saw pictures of them on the boats but they have no way of knowing if the boats made it.  Or am I confusing my fiction with the real history of jewish refugees attempting to escape nazi Germany?  

I'd still go after the attack. Or I'd like to think I would.  It's messy and scary to think about at any point.  But after that attack, I'd still have my money.  Once the money is taken away, you can't go anywhere.  They took the money and laid off all of the women a few months after the attack.  I'm 5 hours from the border.  I have family just 1 hour from the border.  Next time I visit them, maybe I'll take an afternoon to go driving through those winding rural roads and get to know them a bit better.  Hell, this show is making me consider offshore accounts, the purchase of a compass and hydration drip.  I'm joking.  Kind of.  

What's interesting with season 2 is that we have opened up a world of Gileadean possibilities.   We don't have to focus so much on June.  They could branch out - the Aunt's Tale.  The Jezebel's Tale.  Another nod to Chaucer.  Or they could show the stories of the different Handmaids (more Alma anyone?  If we have too much of just June, I'm afraid it's not going to be enough.  They need to bring conclusion to June's story of course, but they have opened the door to so much possibility and done SUCH a good job with all of the characters that there is just so much potential for an entire examination of Gilead.   

[Jodithgrace]

Quote

 kept yelling at her to stop peeking out the damn window! AAAHHH!!! I thought for sure she was going to drop one of those marbles and it would go loudly rolling across the floor. 

One? There was an entire glass jar of marbles on the table and I was sure that she was going to knock them off. Later, when I saw her nervously playing with a small hand full of marbles, I was actually relieved, though if she had dropped one it wouldn't have been good.  Under that bed was such a nice place to hide, I was hoping that she would stay there. But it's really hard when you are afraid for your life. I can understand her compulsively looking out the window as stupid as that was. The tension must have been awful. 

How did she know which way that train was going..she must have been totally disoriented. I was positive that the train was going to take her right back to where she came from and she would be arrested as soon as she got off. But instead it took her right to where she needed to go. Incredible with no station signs or labels on the train map. I guess the map had instructions and wasn't just a map, because a regular map would be almost useless in her situation. 

So close..

[mamadrama]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:34 PM, AnswersWanted said:

 

I am also not feeling Nick, the actor seems bored to me in his scenes, just very flat and uninterested. Even the love scene last week appeared to me to be forced and uncomfortable, it was night and day from their steamy romp in season one, as if they were two different actors. 

 

The Nick situation continues to bother me. I'm an author; I get having characters that intentionally aren't very well developed so that the viewer/reader can focus on the "A" characters. That's not my problem with Nick. My problem, like you said, is with the actor. There's a fine line between a nuanced performance and not giving the audience anything at all. I also find his scenes flat and uninspiring. Except for a couple of scenes from last season, and only a couple of them, I mostly see a huge lack of chemistry between Max and Lizzie. That leaves me questioning the show's motives. Are they MEANT to have heat and chemistry but I am just not seeing it or are they NOT meant to have it (and therefore just turning to each other out of desperation/boredom/curiosity) and what I am seeing and feeling is exactly what the show wants me to see and feel? 

[fivestone]

On 2.5.2018 at 8:12 AM, OHWVphlebo said:

I really think Im going to avoid watching the rest of the episodes until they are all released. I cant put myself through this torture.  It makes you feel emotionally drained. I'll just wait till they are all released and be emotionally drained all at once.....Im like she's back with the Waterfords, WTF.

Same. I can't take going through this every week. I wish Hulu would drop the episodes all at once like Netflix.

[millennium]

7 hours ago, Whimsy said:

Yeah, but I was thrilled that guy pronounced Worcester correctly.  That was a step in the right direction.  

 

Wist-uh.  Off Route One-Fawty-Six.

[Lemons]

50 minutes ago, millennium said:

Wist-uh.  Off Route One-Fawty-Six.

I read that in a Maine accent.

[Baltimore Betty]

I am exhausted and wrung out,  just finished episode 3, geeze it is right back where we started.  

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I guess that makes sense.  It still bothered me, though, because the driver was freaked out and was probably in fear for himself too and she just didn't care.  But, desperate people go to desperate measures and all that. 

You may wish to watch the "inside the episode" on this one, it addresses this.

The driver was freaked out, and if he left her there?  He probably would never come back, and since he was the only one to know she was stuck there?  No one would.  Also, they would have to assume she was compromised and that's why the other family that was going to take her in was caught.

June's instincts were correct, and I did feel that when watching, but wasn't sure until I watched the "inside" video.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Umbelina

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Lemons said:

I read that in a Maine accent.

Maine, Massachusetts, or my native Rhode Island.

First thing I did when I went off to college?  Learned to pronounce the letter "r."

[McKinley]

On 5/3/2018 at 3:05 PM, stephinmn said:

There is an interesting documentary on Netflix titled, "The Push".  It follows one man who goes from just a normal person to being pressured to push a living man off of a building. It also gives the results of four other people who were put into the same situation. No particulars, but most of the people did indeed push the man off the building, believing it would kill him.

There are plenty of other experiments that prove humans will indeed kill other innocent people if it means they get something out of it. We had an entire war in which this happened. 

While it is true that average people can be persuaded/pressured into doing horrific things (e.g., Milgram experiment, Stanford prison experiment, etc.), I went to check this title out at Netflix and it is not a documentary.  It is a show featuring Derren Brown, a magician/illusionist who uses "mentalism" as his schtick.  It is certainly staged and faked.

Edited May 5, 2018 by McKinley

[McKinley]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

You may wish to watch the "inside the episode" on this one, it addresses this.

The driver was freaked out, and if he left her there?  He probably would never come back, and since he was the only one to know she was stuck there?  No one would.  Also, they would have to assume she was compromised and that's why the other family that was going to take her in was caught.

June's instincts were correct, and I did feel that when watching, but wasn't sure until I watched the "inside" video.

Was he the only one to know that she was stuck there?  The other driver knew that he dropped her off there.  And Omar got a text from somebody who would know he was warned not to move her on to the safe house.  So at least the 3 of them would know what happened.  Nick and the Resistance have made sure that she has been taken care of for two months now.  I think that as soon as they realized the safe house was compromised, the Resistance would have been working on alternatives.  It seems to me that it would be safer to wait on an alternative plan than to go somewhere unplanned. 

What really surprised me about Omar taking June to his home was the fact that he had such a young child.  Young children are not good at keeping secrets, and his son could easily let something slip about the lady at their apartment.  I don't think we saw Omar or his wife even instruct the child not to say anything about June to anyone else.

[Umbelina]

We have people we care about in Canada, and now Emily and Janeen in the Colonies, of course we have to still have a Handmaid in Gilead.  As for how bleak it's going to be?  I'd guess pretty bleak, as I really don't see Gilead wrapping things up soon, or invading forces right away coming in to attack the former United States.  The battles are ongoing as we've been told multiple times on the show, and the resistance exists, and the rest of the world doesn't seem too thrilled with what's going on in Gilead since they've boycotted them.

Still, I think hoping for some kind of a quick solution isn't useful.  If anything, it will get worse for some, and probably better for Luke, the blond, and Moira in Canada.  I hope we get to see them reading newspapers about world reaction soon, it's a useful tool to have those two escape.  We care about them, and it will give us a chance to get an idea of the world outside of Gilead, something June and Emily can't possibly know about.

I'll be sticking with it, but I do wish they were releasing more than one a week.  I'd like to just watch it all at once, and then put it behind me until next year.

I do think we may see the wife of the Resistance guy as a handmaid though. She tempted fate by talking about how she would die before giving up her son, while looking down on June.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Umbelina

[GreekGeek]

2 hours ago, McKinley said:

 

What really surprised me about Omar taking June to his home was the fact that he had such a young child.  Young children are not good at keeping secrets, and his son could easily let something slip about the lady at their apartment.  I don't think we saw Omar or his wife even instruct the child not to say anything about June to anyone else.

They could have instructed him offscreen, but there was one moment when Adam glanced up at the window at June when she was looking out of it. Eek!

I too was curious where the Econowives were going. They seemed as though they were all going to the same place for a purpose, not just walking in the same direction. They almost looked like they were going to form into a mob and chase June down. And I wondered about that train--could they all just step aboard and go wherever they were going without paying any fare? And if it's supposed to be a community where everyone is always watching everyone else, why don't they question who this stranger suddenly in their midst is?

The matter of race in Gilead continues to bug. Omar and Heather are the second interracial marriage we've seen, and religious extremists are totally OK with it?

Did anyone think "Commander Wells' Driver" looked like Nick? For a moment I thought it was Nick running away with June.

[chocolatine]

12 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

I'm willing to bet that they didn't really non-USA citizens out.  Don't they say in the book that they let the Jews leave and return to Israel and they saw pictures of them on the boats but they have no way of knowing if the boats made it.  Or am I confusing my fiction with the real history of jewish refugees attempting to escape nazi Germany?  

The Jews who were living in the US were US citizens (just as German Jews were German citizens before the Holocaust). Even if Gilead had killed them openly and not pretended to let them emigrate - not "return" - to Israel, it wouldn't cause an international incident. Refusing to let citizens of other countries leave, or worse, killing them, could cause those other countries to declare war against Gilead, so that's an entirely different thing.

As for the "Jews on a ship" part, that happened both in the book, and, somewhat differently, in real life. In 1939, a ship with over 900 Jewish refugees was turned away by the US and and Canada and sent back to Europe. Many of the passengers ended up dying in concentration camps.