S08.E16: Wrath

[Smad]

'Only one person has to die today.' That was Rick's famous line in the S8 Premiere. Apparently what he actually meant was 'Everyone has to die except one person.' What the F ever Rick.

Never understood why Maggie (and Beth) needed to have such a pronounced accent. Otis, Jimmy and Hershel didn't so why did Maggie have to have one, especially in light of the actress not being able to pull it off. Granted it never really bothered me since I'm not American so I don't know about American accents.

Btw...was Carol even in this episode? No one is talking about her and I only saw one mention in the live chat.

[Persnickety1]

I'm still trying to digest the inedible meatball of a season finale to which we were treated.

I have a question, though, and thought perhaps you good people could shed some light on this since I'm legitimately confused.

The guns backfired and shot the shooters, I get that.

But were they all supposed to have been killed?

If so, I'm thinking that looks like at least 100 Saviors that likely were *not* shot in the head and will soon be turning into Walker Saviors.

I never saw any of CDB et all make any attempt to check for dead ones and dispatch them accordingly.  

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I'm still trying to digest the inedible meatball of a season finale to which we were treated.

I have a question, though, and thought perhaps you good people could shed some light on this since I'm legitimately confused.

The guns backfired and shot the shooters, I get that.

But were they all supposed to have been killed?

If so, I'm thinking that looks like at least 100 Saviors that likely were *not* shot in the head and will soon be turning into Walker Saviors.

I never saw any of CDB et all make any attempt to check for dead ones and dispatch them accordingly.  

I don't think any of the Saviors were killed by the booby trapped ammo.  They were injured and disarmed by it.  Some were killed in the ensuing battle and a bunch surrendered when Rick went soft.  

[BonnieD]

Did anyone else finally take the plunge and remove this show from recording on DVR? I actually stopped it in the middle of Rick and Michonne's final speech. I'm truly quitting now. 

And I had already removed FtWD. Although, perhaps, maybe just maybe, I'll use On Demand to catch the opener because Garrett Dillahunt! He tried to kill Kim Dickens' character Joanie on Deadwood, maybe he can succeed this time!

[HighMaintenance]

I totally forgot tonight was "finale" night for TWD.  Therefore, I only caught the last 30 minutes - sorry show, I'm just not that into you anymore.

Soooo... the Saviors got the jump on Camp Dinner Bell ... AGAIN.  "I AM everywhere!  Be vewwy afwaid!  We're comin' to get you, Barbra!"  Ah, yes that Negan monologing never gets old, does it?   Apparently, Eugene was not only manufacturing bullets, he also built more Saviors.  How is every Savior encounter a 10 to 1 ratio of baddies to Rick's guys?  Hasn't CDB killed like 500 Saviors over 2 seasons?  Not to mention thousands of windows!

Morgan is suddenly "out of here" again.  Funny how characters get to say "I just can't with you" and suddenly skip off by themselves.  C'mon, Morgan.  Either you're nuts or not.  Quit buggering off, only to join the group again and then bugger off once more.  If you're too crayzee to hang with us, then "bye Felicia!"  If you think CDB was a pain in the ass, wait til you have to listen to Madison blather on.  So, where does he go?  The dump. Mmmmkay.  So he kicks out Jadis/Anne so he can be with his feelings and thangs.  BUT... But... what about the helicopter?  Do we get to see/hear/know anything about that?  *Production handwaving intensifies*

What WAS with the random stained glass windows hanging from the tree?  And Rick's python shot through one of those windows and only managed to chip out a little piece of glass. Huh.  BTW, Rick.  Your gun only holds so many bullets...supposedly.  Oh, it was so Rick had a weapon against Negan's bat.  I'm somewhat disappointed that after Rick slashes Negan's throat, he didn't say "PSYCHE!".  BTW, how in the hell did Carl write those "eloquent" letters - hell, he only had at most a 3rd-grade education.

So, now CDB is going to imprison Negan for his crimes against humanity. Will little children get to mock him and throw rotten cantaloupes at him?  Will Alexandrians get to poke him with sticks?  Will Rick and co. have to empty his chamber pottie?  Will Negan be more like Otis the town drunk and get to let himself in and out of his cell when appropriate?  It's all too riveting!

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

I totally forgot tonight was "finale" night for TWD.  Therefore, I only caught the last 30 minutes - sorry show, I'm just not that into you anymore.

Soooo... the Saviors got the jump on Camp Dinner Bell ... AGAIN.  "I AM everywhere!  Be vewwy afwaid!  We're comin' to get you, Barbra!"  Ah, yes that Negan monologing never gets old, does it?   Apparently, Eugene was not only manufacturing bullets, he also built more Saviors.  How is every Savior encounter a 10 to 1 ratio of baddies to Rick's guys?  Hasn't CDB killed like 500 Saviors over 2 seasons?  Not to mention thousands of windows!

Morgan is suddenly "out of here" again.  Funny how characters get to say "I just can't with you" and suddenly skip off by themselves.  C'mon, Morgan.  Either you're nuts or not.  Quit buggering off, only to join the group again and then bugger off once more.  If you're too crayzee to hang with us, then "bye Felicia!"  If you think CDB was a pain in the ass, wait til you have to listen to Madison blather on.  So, where does he go?  The dump. Mmmmkay.  So he kicks out Jadis/Anne so he can be with his feelings and thangs.  BUT... But... what about the helicopter?  Do we get to see/hear/know anything about that?  *Production handwaving intensifies*

What WAS with the random stained glass windows hanging from the tree?  And Rick's python shot through one of those windows and only managed to chip out a little piece of glass. Huh.  BTW, Rick.  Your gun only holds so many bullets...supposedly.  Oh, it was so Rick had a weapon against Negan's bat.  I'm somewhat disappointed that after Rick slashes Negan's throat, he didn't say "PSYCHE!".  BTW, how in the hell did Carl write those "eloquent" letters - hell, he only had at most a 3rd-grade education.

So, now CDB is going to imprison Negan for his crimes against humanity. Will little children get to mock him and throw rotten cantaloupes at him?  Will Alexandrians get to poke him with sticks?  Will Rick and co. have to empty his chamber pottie?  Will Negan be more like Otis the town drunk and get to let himself in and out of his cell when appropriate?  It's all too riveting!

I guess we finally saw the payoff to CDB's window shooting strategy.  Rick obtained the weapon he used to subdue Neagan by shooting a window.  I feel foolish for ridiculing them all this time for "wasting" ammo on shooting windows.  :)

[nodorothyparker]

Twelve hours later and I'm still trying to sort out when exactly TPTB decided they hated Rick Grimes so much that they would make him sell out every single last community he's spent the better part of two seasons trying to "save" to bring under the umbrella of his new world just so he could say he honored the request of a kid who's already dead and won't have to live in that new world when Negan inevitably gets loose and does something horrible or rallies all those former subordinates Rick and the gang couldn't bother to spend two minutes vetting.  Sure, we've seen him in recent episodes become so twisted by this "all out-war," which frankly was a lot of flash and talking and not much else, that he decided his word didn't mean anything anymore or that it was just fine to murder people who showed a willingness to side with him before they had no other options, but has he completely forgotten what this war that he mostly blundered into has cost all the various groups he's bullied or browbeaten to his side?  It's under Negan's rule that Oceanside lost all of its men and boys, the Kingdom most of its fighting force, Hilltop a ton of theirs.  The last Alexandrians we even had names for like Eric and Tobin followed Rick into battle and died.  Glenn and Abraham were bludgeoned to death in front of people who loved them, who in Sasha's case then became willing to die herself.   Yet he doesn't even think keeping Negan alive and around where they may have to see him regularly is worth discussing with them?  He's not running some bureaucratic state where he can send Negan off to prison somewhere far away where he's out of sight out of mind.  Anytime any of them have to go to Alexandria to trade or visit or do whatever, they'll have to know that he's sitting right there probably still smirking and yammering, albeit maybe at a whisper.  And they'll know that he's there because Rick decided for them.

If Carl's death was supposed to somehow justify this, the show failed.  All his bright gauzy fantasies as Carl lay dying of Negan tending the tomatoes don't make the risk worth it.  A bunch of maudlin letters that will probably molder in Rick's top drawer don't make it worth it.  The fantasy of all living together in peace is certainly a nice one but not terribly realistic here.  People used to acting like bullying assholes and taking whatever they want aren't likely to suddenly find peace and contentment in the hard work or manual farm labor they'll have to do now, especially not when their leader who could probably put the whole racket back together again if someone could just spring him free is right there.  But we're apparently not even wasting the effort these clowns used to make with the three questions to see if that's possible.  Amnesty for everyone and everyone play nice now.

As much of a mess as this all is, the potential is there for a new story about Rick now being undone from the inside because of a policy he unilaterally and impulsively made without taking any of this into consideration.  Maggie certainly has motivation the way Rick can so casually dismiss her grief and need for resolution because Carl wrote a letter.  It would also finally give Daryl something to do.  The seeds have certainly been laid, first by his torture and imprisonment at the Sanctuary that he's apparently just supposed to get over, and then in bucking Rick multiple times this season over wanting to jump to the end of the plan and kill everybody or drive a truck through a wall instead of waiting to see it through.  The real problem is the ability of either to actually follow through on their own and inexplicably including Jesus in the discussion.  

[HighMaintenance]

10 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Twelve hours later and I'm still trying to sort out when exactly TPTB decided they hated Rick Grimes so much that they would make him sell out every single last community he's spent the better part of two seasons trying to "save" to bring under the umbrella of his new world just so he could say he honored the request of a kid who's already dead and won't have to live in that new world when Negan inevitably gets loose and does something horrible or rallies all those former subordinates Rick and the gang couldn't bother to spend two minutes vetting.  Sure, we've seen him in recent episodes become so twisted by this "all out-war," which frankly was a lot of flash and talking and not much else, that he decided his word didn't mean anything anymore or that it was just fine to murder people who showed a willingness to side with him before they had no other options, but has he completely forgotten what this war that he mostly blundered into has cost all the various groups he's bullied or browbeaten to his side?  It's under Negan's rule that Oceanside lost all of its men and boys, the Kingdom most of its fighting force, Hilltop a ton of theirs.  The last Alexandrians we even had names for like Eric and Tobin followed Rick into battle and died.  Glenn and Abraham were bludgeoned to death in front of people who loved them., who in Sasha's case then became willing to die herself.   Yet he doesn't even think keeping Negan alive and around where they may have to see him regularly is worth discussing with them?  He's not running some bureaucratic state where he can send Negan off to prison somewhere far away where he's out of sight out of mind.  Anytime any of them have to go to Alexandria to trade or visit or do whatever, they'll have to know that he's sitting right there probably still smirking and yammering, albeit maybe at a whisper.  And they'll know that he's there because Rick decided for them.

If Carl's death was supposed to somehow justify this, the show failed.  All his bright gauzy fantasies as Carl lay dying of Negan tending the tomatoes don't make the risk worth it.  A bunch of maudlin letters that will probably molder in Rick's top drawer don't make it worth it.  The fantasy of all living together in peace is certainly a nice one but not terribly realistic here.  People used to acting like bullying assholes and taking whatever they want aren't likely to suddenly find peace and contentment in the hard work or manual farm labor they'll have to do now, especially not when their leader who could probably put the whole racket back together again if someone could just spring him free is right there.  But we're apparently not even wasting the effort these clowns used to make with the three questions to see if that's possible.  Amnesty for everyone and everyone play nice now.

As much of a mess as this all is, the potential is there for a new story about Rick now being undone by the inside because of a policy he unilaterally and impulsively made without taking any of this into consideration.  Maggie certainly has motivation the way Rick can so casually dismiss her grief and need for resolution because Carl wrote a letter.  It would also finally give Daryl something to do.  The seeds have certainly been laid, first by his torture and imprisonment at the Sanctuary that he's apparently just supposed to get over, and then in bucking Rick multiple times this season over wanting to jump to the end of the plan and kill everybody or drive a truck through a wall instead of waiting to see it through.  The real problem is the ability of either to actually follow through on their own and inexplicably including Jesus in the discussion.  

Great analysis!  How could Carl's letter have that much of an effect in such a short amount of time?  What happened to that "I keeeel you!" attitude that Rick had for 2 seasons?  It sounds like we're back to the Ricktatorship where Rick makes the decisions of what happens regardless of how many other people it hurts.  From that perspective, he's as much of a despot as Negan ever was.

[nodorothyparker]

3 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

It sounds like we're back to the Ricktatorship where Rick makes the decisions of what happens regardless of how many other people it hurts.  From that perspective, he's as much of a despot as Negan ever was.

Well, he's not killing people for funsies and bragging about it, so he's not quite there yet.  But the reality is that the last time Rick thought he had Negan contained at the Sanctuary and it was just a matter of cleanup, it took Negan all of about 30 seconds to regroup the troops and go on another full murderous rampage once he got out.  What would possibly lead Rick to believe the outcome would be any different if got loose again?  From here on out, if Negan kills Judith or hurts anyone else, or if all of those Saviors who had been willing to murder every last one of those people in that field only moments earlier and would have if not for Eugene's deus ex machina of bullet making don't prove to be entirely trustworthy despite Rick's so blithely declaring it so, it's on Rick's head.  Nobody else among any of these communities was clamoring to keep Negan around as a pet like he was some particularly vocal golden retriever.

[Smad]

32 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

As much of a mess as this all is, the potential is there for a new story about Rick now being undone by the inside because of a policy he unilaterally and impulsively made without taking any of this into consideration.  Maggie certainly has motivation the way Rick can so casually dismiss her grief and need for resolution because Carl wrote a letter.  It would also finally give Daryl something to do.  The seeds have certainly been laid, first by his torture and imprisonment at the Sanctuary that he's apparently just supposed to get over, and then in bucking Rick multiple times this season over wanting to jump to the end of the plan and kill everybody or drive a truck through a wall instead of waiting to see it through.  The real problem is the ability of either to actually follow through on their own and inexplicably including Jesus in the discussion.  

You know for me there is a very easy solution to this whole thing without all this nefarious Maggie/Daryl/Jesus plotting to get rid of Rick or whatever. If I were Hilltop and Kingdom, I would refuse any trade with Alexandria. Rick wants to waste resources on Negan he can grow them himself. What little Alexandria had build up in the way of self grown food was probably bombed away. Good luck finding any live stock or seeds at this point. And anything they might find would take a long time to grow anyway. If Rick can't feed what little followers he has left...then what? They will leave to move to Hilltop/Kingdom or demand Rick hand Negan over to be killed if that's the condition for trade. Alexandria has nothing to offer either Hilltop or Kingdom, they hold all the cards. There doesn't need to be any evil plotting which frankly is just stupid (but that's the show at this point).

If I were Hilltop or Kingdom that's exactly what I would do.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Smad

[Persnickety1]

24 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Twelve hours later and I'm still trying to sort out when exactly TPTB decided they hated Rick Grimes so much that they would make him sell out every single last community he's spent the better part of two seasons trying to "save" to bring under the umbrella of his new world just so he could say he honored the request of a kid who's already dead and won't have to live in that new world when Negan inevitably gets loose and does something horrible or rallies all those former subordinates Rick and the gang couldn't bother to spend two minutes vetting.  Sure, we've seen him in recent episodes become so twisted by this "all out-war," which frankly was a lot of flash and talking and not much else, that he decided his word didn't mean anything anymore or that it was just fine to murder people who showed a willingness to side with him before they had no other options, but has he completely forgotten what this war that he mostly blundered into has cost all the various groups he's bullied or browbeaten to his side?  It's under Negan's rule that Oceanside lost all of its men and boys, the Kingdom most of its fighting force, Hilltop a ton of theirs.  The last Alexandrians we even had names for like Eric and Tobin followed Rick into battle and died.  Glenn and Abraham were bludgeoned to death in front of people who loved them., who in Sasha's case then became willing to die herself.   Yet he doesn't even think keeping Negan alive and around where they may have to see him regularly is worth discussing with them?  He's not running some bureaucratic state where he can send Negan off to prison somewhere far away where he's out of sight out of mind.  Anytime any of them have to go to Alexandria to trade or visit or do whatever, they'll have to know that he's sitting right there probably still smirking and yammering, albeit maybe at a whisper.  And they'll know that he's there because Rick decided for them.

If Carl's death was supposed to somehow justify this, the show failed.  All his bright gauzy fantasies as Carl lay dying of Negan tending the tomatoes don't make the risk worth it.  A bunch of maudlin letters that will probably molder in Rick's top drawer don't make it worth it.  The fantasy of all living together in peace is certainly a nice one but not terribly realistic here.  People used to acting like bullying assholes and taking whatever they want aren't likely to suddenly find peace and contentment in the hard work or manual farm labor they'll have to do now, especially not when their leader who could probably put the whole racket back together again if someone could just spring him free is right there.  But we're apparently not even wasting the effort these clowns used to make with the three questions to see if that's possible.  Amnesty for everyone and everyone play nice now.

As much of a mess as this all is, the potential is there for a new story about Rick now being undone by the inside because of a policy he unilaterally and impulsively made without taking any of this into consideration.  Maggie certainly has motivation the way Rick can so casually dismiss her grief and need for resolution because Carl wrote a letter.  It would also finally give Daryl something to do.  The seeds have certainly been laid, first by his torture and imprisonment at the Sanctuary that he's apparently just supposed to get over, and then in bucking Rick multiple times this season over wanting to jump to the end of the plan and kill everybody or drive a truck through a wall instead of waiting to see it through.  The real problem is the ability of either to actually follow through on their own and inexplicably including Jesus in the discussion.  

I recall an interview quite a few years/seasons back wherein either Kirkman or Gimple made a statement that went something like, "We never said Rick was a good guy."  I found the comment interesting at the time so it kind of stuck in my head.

Now it makes me wonder if the intent is to make Rick such an insufferable asshole that the audience will be relieved when the character is eventually killed off, especially since it's been mentioned several times in various interviews that Rick doesn't make it to the end of the show.  

Also, I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I enjoyed the premiere of FTWD (which I previously loathed) more than the season finale of TWD.  Never thought I'd be typing those words, that's for sure.  If they kick Madison and family to the curb, I might actually enjoy the show with the new characters on board.

[riverheightsnancy]

Does Carl's death mean nothing to Maggie and Daryl? They have known him since he was a young boy (although it has probably been only a year or two). Did Rick not share the letter with them? How can Daryl take care of Judith and "protect" her and then not be impacted by what Carl wrote in his letter? Daryl let's Dwight go, doesn't he understand Rick's position? Of course, no one is really talking to anyone anymore (not that they ever did, except to monologue). They are a very fragmented group, with each self-appointed leader, doing what they think is right. I think the new show runner is just as bad as the previous. What it is with the sudden time jumps? I have noticed more of these now. Negan is sliced in the neck-we rejoice and think he's dead, THEN>>> he is shown awake, alive, and talking? I hate these jumps for certain situations. If they had jumped Tyrece's death at the end, it would have lost all impact. After Glen died, there was that slow mulling about, lingering overshot of Maggie and the bloodstained dirt, that was impactful to me. 

The only thing that I am excited about is this Georgey character. I am hoping that she will snap these idiots in place. Maggie has continual resting bitch face to rival Madison in FTWD. I understand Maggie is angry. What I know about stress and gestation, she will be lucky if her baby is born without serious issues. I find the show is better watched binged. This is still must watch for me, but I wish it were better. 

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Does Carl's death mean nothing to Maggie and Daryl? They have known him since he was a young boy (although it has probably been only a year or two). Did Rick not share the letter with them? How can Daryl take care of Judith and "protect" her and then not be impacted by what Carl wrote in his letter? Daryl let's Dwight go, doesn't he understand Rick's position? Of course, no one is really talking to anyone anymore (not that they ever did, except to monologue). They are a very fragmented group, with each self-appointed leader, doing what they think is right. I think the new show runner is just as bad as the previous. What it is with the sudden time jumps? I have noticed more of these now. Negan is sliced in the neck-we rejoice and think he's dead, THEN>>> he is shown awake, alive, and talking? I hate these jumps for certain situations. If they had jumped Tyrece's death at the end, it would have lost all impact. After Glen died, there was that slow mulling about, lingering overshot of Maggie and the bloodstained dirt, that was impactful to me. 

The only thing that I am excited about is this Georgey character. I am hoping that she will snap these idiots in place. Maggie has continual resting bitch face to rival Madison in FTWD. I understand Maggie is angry. What I know about stress and gestation, she will be lucky if her baby is born without serious issues. I find the show is better watched binged. This is still must watch for me, but I wish it were better. 

I'm not sure why the idealistic musings of a (dead) teenager should be a major influence in shaping public policy.   Would they have done whatever Coral said before he died?  Or would they say, "Thanks for your input, Sport, but now it's time for the grownups to talk."?

[sarthaz]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

They now have to rely on the characters doing things that are completely out of character to create the drama.  Remember when this show used to be good?  

And that ham-fisted scenery chewing during the Maggie meltdown. Sigh.

Eugene, who, after the shitty treatment he got while kidnapped by his former friends, finally has a motive to cut all ties, decides now is the time to help Rick and Co.

Daryl, so vengeful he is willing to go after Rick and Michonne, yet so forgiving he gets all after school special, "Go on, now. I said git!" to the person who really, really abused him, on a very personal level, for a long time.

The Saviors surrender scene looked like, "we were bad before, but we're sorry, Mr. Grimes. Can't we all just work together!" Maybe they'll put on a play or start a band.

This. I don't have a big problem letting Negan live. Whatevs. If you're going to rebuild society, you have to start with mercy and justice. I don't buy Koral's sudden transformation into fucking Jesus, but I buy the general philosophy.  What I can't get behind is the characters having no internal consistency anymore. I can barely, and I mean way on the distant horizon, see Maggie turning on Rick -- it's a stretch, but OK. And maybe, just maybe, I could see her and Daryl working together in secret.  But there's no way you can convince me Jesus wants any part of this or that Maggie would be dumb enough to hatch an evil plan with him in the room. None of that makes any damn sense, other than transparent cliffhangering.

[diebartdie]

4 hours ago, ikmccall said:

Why were there stained glass panels hanging from tree branches in the middle of nowhere?

I dont know but they sure were pretty!

4 hours ago, Bad Example said:

Is that what that was?  We couldn't figure out what we were looking at and just assumed it was a herd.  

 

Yes, that was a mega-herd!

4 hours ago, deedee said:

I can't believe the thing I'm angriest about is Daryl banishing Dwight. I mean the guy isn't exactly eye candy, but his story had me the most engaged. I think it's because the actor doesn't have that many lines, but manages to , you know, actually ACT, with his facial expressions and body language.

 

I found his final monologue very moving, I shed a tear and am not ashamed.

[Smad]

33 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Does Carl's death mean nothing to Maggie and Daryl? They have known him since he was a young boy (although it has probably been only a year or two). Did Rick not share the letter with them? How can Daryl take care of Judith and "protect" her and then not be impacted by what Carl wrote in his letter? Daryl let's Dwight go, doesn't he understand Rick's position? Of course, no one is really talking to anyone anymore (not that they ever did, except to monologue). They are a very fragmented group, with each self-appointed leader, doing what they think is right.

What does it matter what Carl wants? First of all Carl was still all about killing Saviors just a few days before (S7 Finale). Teenagers are inconsistent so why should his opinion matter to anyone? Second, both Carl and Rick have clearly forgotten that Carl would have been just another head bashed in by a barbed wire bat if it wasn't for the well timed interference of a CGI tiger. Third, apparently they have learned nothing from the past. Tiger don't change it's stripes. Shane wasn't going to change, the Gov wasn't, the Termites weren't and neither were the Wolves. They all were killed for that reason. So why does anyone with half a working brain think that keeping Negan alive is a good idea?

Just what...2 episodes ago Rick killed Saviors WHO HELPED HIM. Who wanted to chose a different side. And he flat out murdered them. So why does Negan get to live? Many of the Saviors were just as oppressed as the communities which is why at the beginning of the Season Rick wanted to only kill Negan. If the Hilltop and the Kingdom want Negan dead because he MURDERS CHILDREN, then all the more power to them. Rick's kid died because he is a failure as a parent, many people lost their children to Negan. So why does what Rick's kid says matter?

[Mu Shu]

So the remaining saviors get to go back and rebuild?  NO.  You put one of your people in charge.  The odds of one of them being Negan 2.0 are good. 

Imprison the remaining survivors.  Have trials. Convict them.  Punish them.  The surviving ones get hard labor, building the new society until their time is served.

but don’t let all these fuckers get back together and regroup.  

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Twelve hours later and I'm still trying to sort out when exactly TPTB decided they hated Rick Grimes so much that they would make him sell out every single last community he's spent the better part of two seasons trying to "save" to bring under the umbrella of his new world just so he could say he honored the request of a kid who's already dead and won't have to live in that new world when Negan inevitably gets loose and does something horrible or rallies all those former subordinates Rick and the gang couldn't bother to spend two minutes vetting.  Sure, we've seen him in recent episodes become so twisted by this "all out-war," which frankly was a lot of flash and talking and not much else, that he decided his word didn't mean anything anymore or that it was just fine to murder people who showed a willingness to side with him before they had no other options, but has he completely forgotten what this war that he mostly blundered into has cost all the various groups he's bullied or browbeaten to his side?  It's under Negan's rule that Oceanside lost all of its men and boys, the Kingdom most of its fighting force, Hilltop a ton of theirs.  The last Alexandrians we even had names for like Eric and Tobin followed Rick into battle and died.  Glenn and Abraham were bludgeoned to death in front of people who loved them., who in Sasha's case then became willing to die herself.   Yet he doesn't even think keeping Negan alive and around where they may have to see him regularly is worth discussing with them?  He's not running some bureaucratic state where he can send Negan off to prison somewhere far away where he's out of sight out of mind.  Anytime any of them have to go to Alexandria to trade or visit or do whatever, they'll have to know that he's sitting right there probably still smirking and yammering, albeit maybe at a whisper.  And they'll know that he's there because Rick decided for them.

If Carl's death was supposed to somehow justify this, the show failed.  All his bright gauzy fantasies as Carl lay dying of Negan tending the tomatoes don't make the risk worth it.  A bunch of maudlin letters that will probably molder in Rick's top drawer don't make it worth it.  The fantasy of all living together in peace is certainly a nice one but not terribly realistic here.  People used to acting like bullying assholes and taking whatever they want aren't likely to suddenly find peace and contentment in the hard work or manual farm labor they'll have to do now, especially not when their leader who could probably put the whole racket back together again if someone could just spring him free is right there.  But we're apparently not even wasting the effort these clowns used to make with the three questions to see if that's possible.  Amnesty for everyone and everyone play nice now.

As much of a mess as this all is, the potential is there for a new story about Rick now being undone by the inside because of a policy he unilaterally and impulsively made without taking any of this into consideration.  Maggie certainly has motivation the way Rick can so casually dismiss her grief and need for resolution because Carl wrote a letter.  It would also finally give Daryl something to do.  The seeds have certainly been laid, first by his torture and imprisonment at the Sanctuary that he's apparently just supposed to get over, and then in bucking Rick multiple times this season over wanting to jump to the end of the plan and kill everybody or drive a truck through a wall instead of waiting to see it through.  The real problem is the ability of either to actually follow through on their own and inexplicably including Jesus in the discussion.  

Excellent!

Rick's casual betrayal of everyone who sacrificed so that he and especially, his kids could survive is breath-taking.  How many times did people point to Carl and Judith and say they were the future and that's why they were willing to do what they did?  And how many times did those people die?  I've repeatedly said that Rick is an asshole but even I never thought he was that big an asshole.

And, what the fuck, Michonne?  Rick might not remember all the people who gave up their lives but I KNOW Michonne does.  I know Michonne remembers Hershel getting his head chopped off, WITH HER SWORD.  I know she remembers Glenn betraying everything he believed to commit cold-blood mass murder on Rick's command.  And I know she remembers Glenn's last words, to his love and the mother of his child.  I might have found it hard to believe that Michonne would ever pick a loser like Rick but I know the kids played a big part of that.  But I never would have pegged Michonne as a 'stand by your man' type.  Isn't she the woman who kept her boyfriend alive as a walker to punish him (and herself) for failing their child?  I don't give a fuck what the writers have done to Rick Grimes but I'm furious about what they've done to Michonne.

And speaking of Rick's kiddies, where the fuck is Judith?  He's got DeadMan'sBaby sleeping in his room but Shane's kid seems to have been sent out to foster care.

I can't believe that anybody other than DeadMan'sBaby would follow Rick Grimes.  He has failed, REPEATEDLY.  The country-side is littered with the bodies of people Rick Grimes has failed.  I'm sure the reason FatherG has found peace is because he realizes that what he did is nothing compared to the shit Rick's pulled.

Norman Reedus has been saying that Daryl is going to go 'dark' for ages and I guess this is what he means.  But I was ashamed for Daryl pulling a tough-guy routine on a guy who's on his knees, begging for forgiveness.  And I agree that Daryl might be playing double-agent with Maggie because I can't believe he'd turn on Rick.  He loves Rick more than Michonne does. 

Please Show, stop trying to make Jesus happen.  It's not going to work.  Hire stronger actors if you want characters to make an effect.  Lennie James is gone and Danai has clearly checked out.  Who's left?  There are several good actors in the cast but they've never been given a chance to show what they can do.  Andrew Lincoln and Jeffry Dean Morgan CLEARLY aren't up to the task of carrying this show.

[millennium]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I haven't watched but after reading this I guess I won't bother.  Seems like TPTB just gave the audience a big ol' fuck you by keeping Negan alive.  Sure, a show shouldn't always be driven by what the audience wants, but this is one glaring case where it was important for us to get a satisfying conclusion to the two terrible past seasons.  After everything that has happened it makes zero sense that these characters wouldn't be forming a line to take a stab at Negan.  They've earned the right.  We've earned the right.  It's not enough for Rick to imprison him and taunt him with some mealy mouthed threats about how his life will be worthless.  That is not a satisfying conclusion.  It's an insult.

I thought it was an insult for Rick to make an imperial decision, unilaterally deciding Negan's fate with total disregard for the feelings of all the people who fought that day.

ETA: just read the post above mine, which pretty much says the same thing.   so, yeah, what mightysparrow said.

The hell of it is, now that we see what the last two years have come to, it strikes me that the Negan story could have been done in 4-6 weeks, maybe less.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by millennium

[Token]

13 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

Confession.   I missed Rick slicing into Negan's neck as I was trying to post a comment.   I'm so ashamed.

It was a great moment.  I actually, for the first time in seasons, got excited that the show was doing something right.  Then Negan lived.  And was still able to talk.  I'm still angry.

OMG, I've just now got the title of this episode... Wrath!  It's how we all feel after watching it!

Edited April 16, 2018 by Token

[JackONeill]

Rick, despite being a cop, was always a reluctant hero.  I know many, many people are jumping onto his ass because he "honored" Carl's wish for eternal peace and happiness and cheap beer (oh wait, wrong show!)

Rick really didn't want to be a leader. He was (nearly always) ambivalent about it. Sometimes he had to because who else was there? But remember when he turned in his gun belt for long johns and became a farmer!!! So even then he was leaning toward the "world peace" thing. He'd be right in the front of the crowd with Stevie Wonder and Elton John signing "That's What Friends are For." 

But the big problem for so many of us (including me) is we SAW what Negan did to Glen and Abe. And I still cannot shake that whistling. If that isn't pure evil, I don't what is. But, but, but -- who actually started the fight? And I know this has been hashed and rehashed so much it no longer even looks like hash. But Rick, and his people, killed innocent people. Okay—now what do you do? Keep bashing isn brains? At some point there will be no brains left (as we see when we look into the writing room).  Do you then somehow tally all the rights and wrongs? How exactly do you do that? (Although, no matter what, that whistling counts as a negative 2.)

[tiredofwork]

Quote

Nice that Dwight, who only killed Denise and imprisoned Daryl because he was under the boot of Negan, and who helped CDB at the risk of his own life, is given a worse punishment than Negan or even the other Saviors who had up until five minutes ago still been loyal to Negan and about to massacre CDB. Life on the road, alone, with roaming herds of zombies now miles wide, seems like basically a death sentence. Do the writers think that's the "justice" we wanted to see? Hopefully Dwight and his wife actually make it somehow.

See, this is why I appreciated Dwight.. He had to tap dance all the time to do the right shit..  At the total risk of his life from 2 sides..   He also made it clear that it was a mistake that the arrow struck Denise, he was aiming at Daryl..  That too was self-preservation on his part as Daryl meant to kill him.. Dwight took the opportunity to eliminate his enemy unlike Rick who many times when he could have taken out Negan, inexplicably failed each time..   Also.. am I mistaken or wasn't Daryl's dumb, nasty, waste of character ass responsible for Glen's head being bashed in at the onset of Negan because he did his stupid, rush the man thing... it was going to end with Abraham.. Glenn was the result of Daryl..  Also wasn't Daryl, one of the stupid's that crashed the Sanctuary that essentially led to the good guy's snipers being killed and the escape of the Sancturary people to go and fucking massacre Alexandria??  So my point is Daryl's stupidity is responsible for lots more fatalities than Dwight.

I agree the last seen with the Maggie Mafia was beyond stupid.. especially with Daryl coming out of the shadows.

Edited April 17, 2018 by tiredofwork

[oakville]

1 hour ago, sarthaz said:

This. I don't have a big problem letting Negan live. Whatevs. If you're going to rebuild society, you have to start with mercy and justice. I don't buy Koral's sudden transformation into fucking Jesus, but I buy the general philosophy.  What I can't get behind is the characters having no internal consistency anymore. I can barely, and I mean way on the distant horizon, see Maggie turning on Rick -- it's a stretch, but OK. And maybe, just maybe, I could see her and Daryl working together in secret.  But there's no way you can convince me Jesus wants any part of this or that Maggie would be dumb enough to hatch an evil plan with him in the room. None of that makes any damn sense, other than transparent cliffhangering.

Do the writers of this episode watch previous seasons?

 Maggie should have killed Negan as revenge for Glenn.

The saviors would have tested a few of Eugene’s bullets before attacking Ricks group. 

The Oceanside group decides at the last minute to help Hilltop after Stating for years that they will stay hidden.

This show should promote alcohol. You have to drink a few glasses of wine to understand the plot

[Ohwell]

For me, the most compelling event of this whole fucking season is not that Carl died, it's when Jerry said "shit."  Twice. 

[Smad]

56 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

But, but, but -- who actually started the fight? And I know this has been hashed and rehashed so much it no longer even looks like hash. But Rick, and his people, killed innocent people. Okay—now what do you do? Keep bashing isn brains? At some point there will be no brains left (as we see when we look into the writing room).  Do you then somehow tally all the rights and wrongs? How exactly do you do that? (Although, no matter what, that whistling counts as a negative 2.)

As far as I remember, Negan's biker gang started it all. When Daryl/Abe/Sasha came across them, the bikers wanted everything they had, toyed with them and then wanted to kill them anyway. If Daryl hadn't blown them up, Negan's bikers would have drawn first blood.

21 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If Maggie doesn't get knocked up, there wouldn't have been a need to drag her ass to the Hilltop, and both Glenn and Abraham would probably still be  alive.  Yes, I know Glenn shares some of the blame for knocking Maggie up.  That said, I do wonder if Maggie has felt the least amount of guilt over Abraham's death?

Negan would have come to Alexandria eventually. And the first thing Negan does to ensure a community's surrender to his rule is bash someone's head in.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Smad

[The Mighty Peanut]

I don’t think the writers hate Rick so much as they don’t know who he is and by now he has so many identities they can just pick and choose depending on what they want to entertain.

 

Remember when Rick said a few words over a walker after finding his license?

Remember when Rick tore out a man’s throat using only his teeth?

Remember when Rick stopped speaking to Lori for her entire pregnancy?

Remember when Rick had regular chats with the dead on a disconnected phone?

Or when he told Carl NOT to shoot at the governor...

Or when he reluctantly didn’t slaughter all the termites...

Or when he did kill the savior outpost...

Or when he didn’t want to let in Michonne but Carl...

Or when he went Red Machete on Garreth....

Or when he did let in all the Woodbury people...

There really is a Rick for all options.

[Rosiejuliemom]

5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

No way. After all that crazy, she does not get to go back to having a regular name.

She will forever be Bad-Bangs Becky as far as I'm concerned.

 

Quote

If Maggie doesn't get knocked up, there wouldn't have been a need to drag her ass to the Hilltop, and both Glenn and Abraham would probably still be  alive.  Yes, I know Glenn shares some of the blame for knocking Maggie up.  That said, I do wonder if Maggie has felt the least amount of guilt over Abraham's death?

Abraham maybe. Glenn was already captured with Michonne, Daryl, and Rosita because Daryl had to go mope in the woods.

 

Negan would have killed at least one of them to send a message.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Rosiejuliemom

[nodorothyparker]

Reminder that we don't discuss the comics or outside casting and contract decisions in episode threads.  Those posts go in the appropriate Comics, Media, or Spoilers and Speculation threads. 

[heisenberg]

The start and the end of the show with Carl made me think of a Laxative remedy advertising.

So all the Saviors had fresh bullets that no-one tried?  Not even one of them had still old ones?

Not a single person on this show wonders what that helicopter is about?  OK, I won't either.

The lady who was doing door-to-door sales with her twins...  Ah just forget it...

[scrb]

Yawn, as expected, they saved Negan, even though what are the odds a resident without clean medical supplies quickly stitches up a man who's had his neck slashed and has bled out for a few minutes.

Good now we will be treated to more speechifying.  Negan isn't going to become this defeated, taciturn character now.  

Essentially, he's not going to be punished for all the murders or his horrible personality.  Rick says Negan will be an example to others that peace is the way of the future.

Come on, is Rick never going to kill again?

Meanwhile, Negan is going to troll them from the prison, smirking as usual.

[iMonrey]

I cheered. I actually cheered out loud when Rick slashed Negan's throat. I really thought they did it, and I cheered. Only to have the rug pulled out from under me. 

I should have known better, I suppose, but in hindsight the throat slashing almost seems like they were punking us. They have to know at some level there are a lot of fans that want him dead. Why bother slashing his throat and letting us think they would actually kill him if they had no intention of killing him, other than to fuck with us? That's almost worse. I had the momentary satisfaction of thinking he would die only to have it taken away from me.

I understand the show is in love with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. I just don't understand how they can so willfully ignore the fans and what's happening with the ratings. That's a level of denial I simply cannot fathom. They must be too close to it. They must rely on their Twitter sycophants who think they actually have a personal relationship with the writers and producers and directors. And they must stick their heads in the sand any time reality creeps in by way of criticism or ratings. 

Well, I guess the "all out war" is finally over so that's . . . something. It's not much, but it's something. And I called it last week when I guessed Eugene would have a change of heart and sabotage the bullets because I couldn't figure out any purpose to the botched kidnapping attempt. So, that's something too, I guess. Still, I'm just as sick of Eugene and his idiotic weird way of talking as I am of Negan and his smug bloviating.

Quote

What was the deal with the blighted regions? Is it new, or did I just miss it before?

It was a walker herd. Rick said they had never seen one that size before. In his final Braveheart speech to the surviving Saviors he pointed to them and said that was the real enemy or something equally silly. It was hard to make out, even in high def, because it looked very digitized.

Edited April 16, 2018 by iMonrey

[Boofish]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Rick, despite being a cop, was always a reluctant hero.  I know many, many people are jumping onto his ass because he "honored" Carl's wish for eternal peace and happiness and cheap beer (oh wait, wrong show!)

Rick really didn't want to be a leader. He was (nearly always) ambivalent about it. Sometimes he had to because who else was there? But remember when he turned in his gun belt for long johns and became a farmer!!! So even then he was leaning toward the "world peace" thing. He'd be right in the front of the crowd with Stevie Wonder and Elton John signing "That's What Friends are For." 

But the big problem for so many of us (including me) is we SAW what Negan did to Glen and Abe. And I still cannot shake that whistling. If that isn't pure evil, I don't what is. But, but, but -- who actually started the fight? And I know this has been hashed and rehashed so much it no longer even looks like hash. But Rick, and his people, killed innocent people. Okay—now what do you do? Keep bashing isn brains? At some point there will be no brains left (as we see when we look into the writing room).  Do you then somehow tally all the rights and wrongs? How exactly do you do that? (Although, no matter what, that whistling counts as a negative 2.)

Jesus 'anem! I also feel like they had to have known that Savior compound was just one of many because he also knew of the Kingdom.

This isn't the first time Rick has begged for peace and took in adversaries. Maggie and Glenn were also mad when he took in Merle and he ended up saving their lives.  I agree he is a reluctant leader and in his heart he just wants to live in peace. Yet they continue to look to him for plans, guidance and leadership and complain and moan when they don't get the desired outcome.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by Boofish

[valandsend]

What was the significance of the message Dwight's wife left (Honeymoon Infinity)?

[ShadowHunter]

5 hours ago, Smad said:

Btw...was Carol even in this episode? No one is talking about her and I only saw one mention in the live chat.

Yes she was she spoke a few words lol. 

I don't care for Negan but I still want Maggie to next season. No win situation for me. 

They need to start wrapping things up and ending the show. 

[Ohwell]

39 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

They need to start wrapping things up and ending the show. 

Agreed.  Next season should be the last.  At this point, I don't care how the ends it or who gets killed or who lives, I just want it to end.

[ChipBach]

49 minutes ago, valandsend said:

What was the significance of the message Dwight's wife left (Honeymoon Infinity)?

I guess it was her present location.  Only person that would understand would be double cheese face.

This finale was pretty funny actually.  Rick makes another unilateral decision without buy-in, a conversation, etc, to save Negan because Coral said so?  He murdered several red-shirts with extreme prejudice...  They are all free to go forward with the world as long as he (and Coral) agree with it...  And I agree, I am so bailing on super-villain Maggie, Daryl, and the resident peacenik Jesus.  Why couldn't they just kill Negan?  At some point they will have access, opportunity, and motive.  Shit, Daryl was allowed to take "D" out to execute him.  Why wasn't he afforded more protection that Negan?  At least he helped the "good guys" at the end.  I am still not sure why Daryl hates him so intently.  He hated him (yesterday) because he was sure he was double crossing his team.  Was it all because he stole his motorcycle?  D's wife actually saved Daryl's ass...

And I agree, EVERY SINGLE BULLET failed?  At least show us some pretext as to why they ALL needed to reload with the Eugene duds.  Crazy stuff.

Rick, who absolutely outfoxed by Negan, slashes his throat with the intention of wounding him?

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, valandsend said:

What was the significance of the message Dwight's wife left (Honeymoon Infinity)?

I was sad to see him get exiled. I liked Dwight. 

24 minutes ago, ChipBach said:

I guess it was her present location.  Only person that would understand would be double cheese face.

 

I hope it was. 

[Mu Shu]

I like Dwight too.  Good actor, made people go from hate to like. 

I imagine the actor is leaving and that’s why he’s exiled.  At least he didn’t get his leg eaten by fucking living people.

yes I am still salty about bob.

and Dwight? No one is mad you shot that annoying fucking nurse Zoe with an arrow.  Such a useless character. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Mu Shu

[watch2much]

I did something that would have been unheard of in the past---I FAST FORWARDED thru a lot.  I groaned when I saw how long the finale was going to be, so I only listened to the dialog of people who interested me....Ezekiel and Jerry....and....no that's about it.  Agree with all who said hated they kept Negan alive.  I wanted him to be about to kill Rick when  a shot rings out and pan to Maggie with a satisfied look on her face.  and then just let everyone go????  you could tell the wheels were turning in Negan's head when Rick told him what his future was.  He can be a persuasive guy (ask Jadis).  One of the reasons, I think, this ending is so unsatisfying is because we never learned not one redeeming bit of back story about Negan (except that his wife was named Lucille---not an honor I'd like).  Even the Governor garnerd some sympathy for his daughter.   If they had given the viewers any information on Negan other than what we saw--a homicidal psychopath....maybe we could have swallowed the ending.  Of all the people one could argue deserves mercy, he (nor Jadis) are it.

Oh, at least the ending answered one question I had.  When I saw Siddque leaving to go fight my thought was "why would you allow your only doctor to risk being killed?"  of course, it made sense in the end.  stupid show.

Edited April 16, 2018 by watch2much
add

[Luvzmutt]

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Your DVR has got better taste than I do.  Not only did I watch this entire episode, I watched that pile of crap (FTWD) that aired right after this.

So I’ve been warned... skip FTWD?

[AngelaHunter]

It's up already. Oh, hell yeah.

 

[Rosiejuliemom]

32 minutes ago, watch2much said:

Oh, at least the ending answered one question I had.  When I saw Siddque leaving to go fight my thought was "why would you allow your only doctor to risk being killed?"  of course, it made sense in the end.  stupid show.

Hershel, Bob, and Denise would enthusiastically agree with you if they were still among the living.

[Kiki777]

19 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 

You know who got things done - Carl and Shiva, and at one time Carol, and Michonne before she became Rick's girlfriend.

Shiva was awesome but even she failed to kill Negan when she had the chance, last season finale when he was about to take Lucille to Coral's head.  Though to be fair, when Zeke briefed her pre-attack all she could make out was 'Shiva blahblah kill blahblahblah man'

Maggie's freak-out when Rick decided to save Negan was hilarious!!  Bad accent/acting.  She was Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'hara.

This could have been the series finale if not for the stupid Maggie's mutiny plan.  ugh Maggie you now officially suck more than Negan.

[AngelaHunter]

34 minutes ago, Kiki777 said:

She was Vivien Leigh as Scarlett O'hara.

"Ah'll nevah be hongry agin!" But really, Scarlett was smart and resourceful and in a time when women were 3rd class citizens.

[Token]

The thing that got me this episode with the bullets is that Eugene handed Negan his gun and let him test a few shots.  How did Eugene know how many test shots Negan would take at the Rick dummy (the actual dummy, not the real Rick dummy)?  Maybe he would only test one and keep the rest to use on Father PP?

[oakville]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I cheered. I actually cheered out loud when Rick slashed Negan's throat. I really thought they did it, and I cheered. Only to have the rug pulled out from under me. 

I should have known better, I suppose, but in hindsight the throat slashing almost seems like they were punking us. They have to know at some level there are a lot of fans that want him dead. Why bother slashing his throat and letting us think they would actually kill him if they had no intention of killing him, other than to fuck with us? That's almost worse. I had the momentary satisfaction of thinking he would die only to have it taken away from me.

I understand the show is in love with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. I just don't understand how they can so willfully ignore the fans and what's happening with the ratings. That's a level of denial I simply cannot fathom. They must be too close to it. They must rely on their Twitter sycophants who think they actually have a personal relationship with the writers and producers and directors. And they must stick their heads in the sand any time reality creeps in by way of criticism or ratings. 

Well, I guess the "all out war" is finally over so that's . . . something. It's not much, but it's something. And I called it last week when I guessed Eugene would have a change of heart and sabotage the bullets because I couldn't figure out any purpose to the botched kidnapping attempt. So, that's something too, I guess. Still, I'm just as sick of Eugene and his idiotic weird way of talking as I am of Negan and his smug bloviating.

It was a walker herd. Rick said they had never seen one that size before. In his final Braveheart speech to the surviving Saviors he pointed to them and said that was the real enemy or something equally silly. It was hard to make out, even in high def, because it looked very digitized.

I think it is ridiculous that Negan is still alive after the last episode. The writers should stop asking Rick to say " I will kill Negan".  The writers are trolling the fans. That is a bad way to treat people.

The last scenes with Maggie & Darryl & Jesus plotting against Rick & Michonne is dumbfounding.

Jesus was urging Maggie to keep the Savior prisoners alive during the season. Now he is  OK to kill Rick? LOL.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

I also find it ridiculous that Negan's followers would just give up so easily and start farming like the tattoo lady. These people are cult like followers of Negan up until 5 minutes after a battle?

Now they are happy gardening?

[PreBabylonia]

Finally some action that didn't just involve random shooting at inanimate objects! There actually seemed to be some strategy this episode. Definitely the best episode of the season (faint praise, but still, better than nothing). Really enjoyed the Rick and Carl clips at beginning and end. This episode seemed to be a bit more intelligently written.

Obviously they had to follow Gimple's love of All Things Negan, but if you had to keep him alive, why not cut off his tongue and his dick and his bat hand? I would have, although I am sure that makes me sound like Aunt Lydia from The Handmaiden's Tale. At the very least, they should leave him jailed in a room guarded by Eugene, so he has to hear his endless babbling. So odd that Rick kills the entire bunch of Saviours that he tracked down, yet decides to be merciful to the psychopath controlling them. Carl's letter wasn't THAT good.

I liked Rosita punching Eugene for the vomit, one of the highlights for me. Interesting that we haven't seen any potentially dangerous situations for Maggie. I would have expected some kind of momentous plot development for her, since we don''t know if Lauren will be staying. I'm relieved though that we don't have a season cliffhanger for once. Darryl, Jesus and Maggie plotting to take out Negan is a nice touch, so I am hoping they actually do something with it.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I'd be okay with the fact that Negan's alive if Rick could have also at least castrated him. Cutting his throat just isn't enough. I'm pretty sure Carl didn't mention anything about balls being off limits in his letter. 

[Dirksy]

Maybe they will put Negan in a public stockade where he can be pelted with rotten fruit and penile double entandres! I will watch that!

[Gudzilla]

I'm surprised that so many people are upset about Negan still being alive. I thought the last few episodes made it clear that Simon & his friends were responsible for all the horrible stuff the Saviors did. ;)

Rick if you want to know how to deal with someone who loves speechifying, ask Arya Stark.