Unpopular Opinions

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I hate Harley Quinn. Always have, always will. I don't think she's cute, funny, lovable, or a feminist antihero. She's just an irritating, crap excuse for a gangster's moll who is 100% complicit in the Joker's crimes. I feel so stupid voicing such a strong opinion about a fictional character who got her start on a 90s animated series, but I'm tired of all the media around me lecturing me on why Harley Quinn is the greatest thing ever.

Please. Just. Stop.

Amen. I would love a female antihero a la Deadpool, but she ain't it.

The only reason I'm renting Birds of Prey next week is out of sheer quarantine boredom. There were better movies coming out (or SUPPOSED to come our before being postponed) this year that I'd rather be streaming, but since the studios would rather save them for the theaters (can't really blame them), here we are.

[shireenbamfatheon]

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Amen. I would love a female antihero a la Deadpool, but she ain't it.

The only reason I'm renting Birds of Prey next week is out of sheer quarantine boredom. There were better movies coming out (or SUPPOSED to come our before being postponed) this year that I'd rather be streaming, but since the studios would rather save them for the theaters (can't really blame them), here we are.

As someone who usually dislikes Harley Quinn, I want to say that I wish I had watched that movie in the cinema. It's that good. She's a completely different character than the one in Suicide Squad, and the movie as a whole is entertaining all the way through, with Harley and Huntress being the best parts of it.

[methodwriter85]

On 3/31/2020 at 9:49 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Amen. I would love a female antihero a la Deadpool, but she ain't it.

They were trying REALLY hard to make her feel like female Deadpool in the Harley Quinn movie and I just couldn't feel that. I still enjoyed the movie, but I was annoyed at how much they were trying to make this feel like Deadpool.

[ShadowHunter]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:41 AM, thickplottens said:

UO: Daisy Ridley and Sebastian Stan are mediocre actors.

I am with you on Daisy Ridley. 

[Ambrosefolly]

On 3/31/2020 at 9:49 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Amen. I would love a female antihero a la Deadpool, but she ain't it.

I thought the Bride from Kill Bill was the female Deadpool? Eventhough the comic predated Kill Bill, but the movie predated Deadpool, does that make Deadpool the male Kill Bill?

[topanga]

On 2/26/2020 at 4:22 PM, proserpina65 said:

I actively avoid them.  I've found that when I'm watching a series for which I don't want spoilers and which I have to record rather than watching live, I have to avoid EW's website until I've watched because they frequently give them away on their main page.  I think any entertainment website which does that should be roundly castigated.

However, if I go deeper than the main page, say, into a show's comment threads here or somewhere similar, I take my chances and deserve what I get.

 

On 2/27/2020 at 6:20 PM, andromeda331 said:

I don't either. I like that there's an option for both. There's some movies I don't mind reading all the spoilers and watching/reading all interviews before going to see the movie or TV show and while others I really don't want any spoilers and will avoid places on the internet, articles and interviews. It just really depends on the movie. 

I generally avoid spoilers in movies-- I'm one of those people who covers my eyes and ears in a movie theater and sings "La-La-La" when a trailer comes on for a movie I want to see.

But what's just as bad as out-right spoilers are the trailers or reviews that say, "The shocking twist will floor you!" Don't tell me there's a twist! You've just ruined the entire movie for me because now I know that whatever I feel and believe while watching the film is going to be wrong.  

[Mabinogia]

16 minutes ago, topanga said:

But what's just as bad as out-right spoilers are the trailers or reviews that say, "The shocking twist will floor you!" Don't tell me there's a twist! You've just ruined the entire movie for me because now I know that whatever I feel and believe while watching the film is going to be wrong.  

I would rather a flat out spoiler than the "twist" threat. First, like you say, it kind of ruins the viewing because you know something is coming so you question everything you're watching and second, the twist is very, very rarely as shocking as they think it is. Plus, if you have to announce there is a twist, it means the story probably isn't that interesting and they needed the "twist" to draw people in. 

[kiddo82]

I'm wondering if/when theaters get back up and running a monthly service is the way to go for a lot of them.  It's guaranteed revenue whether you show up or not.

[Irlandesa]

33 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

I'm wondering if/when theaters get back up and running a monthly service is the way to go for a lot of them.  It's guaranteed revenue whether you show up or not.

It's an idea except I think there will be such a backlog of big budget movies that I think theaters will hope to capitalize on having multiple must sees available. 

I suspect we'll see more small movies get moved to streaming.

[Ambrosefolly]

I will disclose this first: I didn't watch the latest Little Women. One thing that disappointed me with the casting is that an American based story didn't have a single American play any of the March sisters, with the slight technicality of Saorise who was born in New York, but raised in Ireland.  They managed to cast it for the older generations, but not the main girls.(Though weirdly, Emma Stone, an American who was original cast as Meg, dropped out to play a British character in the Favorite, but I believe her winning an Oscar opened casting directors mind to the possibility an American can play a British character). They rarely do it for British based movies, but always do that for American based movies. Based on the nominations and Greta Gerwig's decision on why she cast Saorise as Jo, her and Florence were right for the part, but Emma Watson hasn't always been the strongest actor.

I am glad with more films depicting more diverse people and stories, it is African Americans actors that are starting pushing back and questioning that trend, especially when African British actors get the roles depicting the American experience, like in Selma. At least it forces directors like Jordan Peele to answer the question. As some of the actors point out, there are many actors in BFA and MFA acting programs, across the country no different from their British counterparts. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:10 PM, topanga said:

I generally avoid spoilers in movies-- I'm one of those people who covers my eyes and ears in a movie theater and sings "La-La-La" when a trailer comes on for a movie I want to see.

But what's just as bad as out-right spoilers are the trailers or reviews that say, "The shocking twist will floor you!" Don't tell me there's a twist! You've just ruined the entire movie for me because now I know that whatever I feel and believe while watching the film is going to be wrong.  

I muted the word "twist" on Twitter so that I never ever have to read tweets with that word in it.  I hate people who think seeing a movie / television show before everyone else means they have great wisdom to impart and must tell everyone on Twitter beforehand.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wiendish Fitch]

I think people make too big a deal about Barbara Hershey's lips in Beaches. Come on, that is far, far, far from the most ridiculous collagen job I've ever seen.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Wiendish Fitch

[Blergh]

13 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I think people make too big a deal about Barbara Hershey's lips in Beaches. Come on, that is far, far, far from the most ridiculous collagen job I've ever seen.

 Agree! Just look at Harry Hamlin's wife Lisa Rinna who seems as though she's ready to audition for Daffy Duck.

 

BTW, what's Miss Hershey done since Beaches? I see she's had steady work to recent years but this seems as though this was the last big budget movie in which she played a leading role. Even her costar Bette Midler appears to have had a steadier career playing leads since that movie than Miss Hershey!

 

Of course, playing a blah, bland perpetual(albeit wealthy)  victim whose ONLY saving graces were doing her best to be a single mother to her daughter AND having befriended a wacky yet goldenhearted dynamo can't have helped Miss Hershey's trajectory.

  Also, if one thinks about, HOW could Barbara Hershey's character have been the  wind beneath  Bette Midler character's wings instead of vice-versa? Bette Midler's character brought the only joy to Miss Hershey's character's life until her daughter's birth while Miss Hershey's character did nothing more than occasionally tell Miss Midler's 'that's nice' with the occasional thanks thrown in. 

[katha]

I like Joe Wright's "Pride and Prejudice" adaptation, even though he, in great Joe Wright tradition, IMO gets things fundamentally wrong about the source material. I think Keira Knightley is a lovely Elizabeth, I like her better than Jennifer Ehle (who was very fine in all the dramatic scenes IMO, but didn't really convince me when she had to be light and humorous, it often read as too openly sharp and angry for me). And MacFadyen is a great actor who does the absolute best with the material he's given and has great chemistry with Knightley.

But this "he's just shy and misunderstood!" BS is one of the ways in which the film doesn't understand the book it is based on. Darcy is a fundamentally good man, but he's also an interfering snob. Colin Firth is awesome in the way he conveys that Darcy is an adult who takes responsibility for his mistakes. Yeah, Elizabeth at a certain point starts making really unfair assumptions on no evidence about him ("There was truth in his looks" about Wickham is probably one of the more idiotic things any character in Austen says, and I love that Austen makes Lizzie say it just as she is smugly patting herself on the back on how clever she is being LOL), but he is insulting in Meryton and he does interfere with Bingley. It's cool that he is capable of self-reflection and adjusts to live up to his own ideals.

Another Austen adaptation pet peeve, as I'm already whining LOL. Fanny Price being quiet and withdrawn and kinda annoying is the.point.of.the.book. She is ripped away from her family and emotionally neglected and/or bullied a lot at Mansfield Park. Her rigid world view and her fear/anxiety are direct results of this trauma. Making her all feisty wannabe badass defeats the purpose of even making a film version of the book. I know, characters like that aren't "trendy", but still. Argh. And yeah, the ending is supposed to be bittersweet IMO. Fanny and Edmund withdrawing from the world because they've been disappointed and scared by it has a slightly sad and claustrophobic feel to it.

[Crs97]

I have to pretend the Keira Knightly version of Pride & Prejudice is a completely different story that happens to share the same names for characters as Jane Austen’s novel, or I get a little stabby.  Complete and utter mischaracterization of Darcy, ridiculous conversations and a proposal in a nightgown, and Keira actually did the unthinkable and made Elizabeth boring.  I much prefer Jennifer and Colin, who studied their characters and didn’t just memorize lines.
 

The main thing that the miniseries gets utterly, unforgivably wrong is Elizabeth’s line that her feelings changed for Darcy when she saw Pemberley.  It’s a quote, but the book made clear she had no interest in his money or in Pemberley if she had to cut her family from her.  That line was totally in jest, and the miniseries blew it by not making that clear.  They should have added her comment when she thinks how she could have been mistress of the estate how worthless that was without her aunt and uncle.  The miniseries also botched the proposal and engagement, which I believe what’s-his-name admitted after watching it later.

[Wiendish Fitch]

As flawed (okay, fine, bad) as the 1940 Pride and Prejudice is, I still think Greer Garson is a good Elizabeth Bennett. Oh, what could have been if the screenplay had been better...

[Ohwell]

I hated Steel Magnolias.  The only person I could somewhat tolerate was Dolly Parton.  

[methodwriter85]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:41 AM, thickplottens said:

UO: Daisy Ridley and Sebastian Stan are mediocre actors.

I would have written Sebastian Stan off as a pretty boy with decent charisma if I hadn't seen I Tonya. He's really good in that, to the point where I thought he should have racked up awards, and I've never thought that about him before.

Otherwise, I haven't been impressed by what he does, but  I feel like Sebastian has benefited from having a memorable face. He's handsome, but not with the square jaw that Hollywood usually goes for.

[katha]

I don't get the appeal of Chalamet. Perhaps its partly an age thing and I'm really not part of his target audience anymore 😁 (okay, I know that is true LOL), but I don't get that manchild hipster thing he has going at all. Also? He wasn't good in "Little Women", all wrong for Laurie. Though that also might have been Gerwig's IMO strange interpretation.

Daisy Ridley is a bit of a question mark for me atm. She's appealing in Star Wars, but that is such a very specific action movie/blank slate character where the audience can project into. A bit like Keanu Reeves was in the Matrix, or, yep, Mark Hammill in the originals. IMO she's now in the danger zone where she needs to develop beyond that or there's the risk of Mark Hammill career trajectory. I think John Boyega has shown more versatility in the projects he has chosen. With Ridley, IMO she hasn't been convincing in anything outside SW so far. I don't know if that's bad luck/questionable judgement for the projects she has chosen? But now she needs something that is memorable that isn't "Rey from that space wizards movie".

[thickplottens]

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I would have written Sebastian Stan off as a pretty boy with decent charisma if I hadn't seen I Tonya. He's really good in that, to the point where I thought he should have racked up awards, and I've never thought that about him before.

Otherwise, I haven't been impressed by what he does, but  I feel like Sebastian has benefited from having a memorable face. He's handsome, but not with the square jaw that Hollywood usually goes for.

I watched I Tonya a few months ago and agree that he was quite good in that, although not on the same level as Margot Robbie and Allison Janney. Prior to that I'd only ever seen him in the Marvel movies and wasn't very impressed, but then I find Bucky to be a boring, bland character, which I guess is another UO.

[kiddo82]

10 hours ago, katha said:

I don't get the appeal of Chalamet. Perhaps its partly an age thing and I'm really not part of his target audience anymore 😁 (okay, I know that is true LOL), but I don't get that manchild hipster thing he has going at all. Also? He wasn't good in "Little Women", all wrong for Laurie. Though that also might have been Gerwig's IMO strange interpretation.

I've had similar criticisms of Chalamet in the past.  Maybe I just don't get the brooding hipster type either.  I've seen him compared to the likes of Tom Holland in the leading men who don't look like traditional leading men category.  My reaction to that is that Holland seems to have charm for days where I find Chalamet dull as dishwater.  And for the love of Pete, get a haircut. 

 

And then get off my lawn. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by kiddo82

[Ohwell]

I'm watching The Birds right now.  Tippi Hedren should have gotten pecked to death, not Suzanne Pleshette.  I liked Suzanne's character better and Rod Taylor was a moron for not choosing her.

Oops, I just looked Tippi Hedren up and she actually did get pecked on the set.  One of the birds gouged her cheek and narrowly missed her eye.  Sorry, Tippi. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Ohwell

[Wiendish Fitch]

33 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm watching The Birds right now.  Tippi Hedren should have gotten pecked to death, not Suzanne Pleshette.  I liked Suzanne's character better and Rod Taylor was a moron for not choosing her.

Oh, man, do I agree. I get that people like who they like, but Melanie was a vacuous dullard whose charisma would rattle inside a molecule. Annie was wonderful and didn't deserve to be so horribly fridged.

I have to say, I think The Birds is actually one of Hitch's worst films. It honestly has the worst pacing in any of his films; by the time the birds finally attack (almost 40 minutes in!!!), my eyes had glazed over and I had stopped caring. Vertigo is also slowly paced, but at least it has, y'know, stuff that actually happens and people you somewhat care about.

 

[scarynikki12]

I took a Hitchcock film class in college and one of the things we learned was that he was terrified of birds and that's why they're one of his go to visuals to signify looming threats in his movies. So I always watch The Birds with this in mind and imagining his internal fear during production makes it more entertaining.

[AimingforYoko]

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Oops, I just looked Tippi Hedren up and she actually did get pecked on the set.  One of the birds gouged her cheek and narrowly missed her eye.  Sorry, Tippi. 

Google Tippi Hedren and Alfred Hitchcock.

[Ohwell]

25 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Google Tippi Hedren and Alfred Hitchcock.

I did.

I had read he was strange, but I didn't know just how strange.  She had to put up with a lot.  However, as characters go, I still preferred Annie/Suzanne Pleshette.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Ohwell

[Blergh]

48 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I did.

I had read he was strange, but I didn't know just how strange.  She had to put up with a lot.  However, as characters go, I still preferred Annie/Suzanne Pleshette.

What's interesting is that Suzanne Pleshette actually seemed to be completely unintimidated by Mr. Hitchcock and possibly may have intimidated HIM by climbing on his lap  and telling jokes that made sailors blush but since he refused to cast her in a lead role (as per her contract that she specified that he'd do after The Birds), they never worked again but she considered him a good friend to his death and was quite impressed by his technical knowledge and having plotted out virtually every frame of his films before he started filming. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Blergh

[magicdog]

RE: The subject of spoilers:

I tend to look up spoilers and/or summaries of various films (especially if they're lauded by critics and the media at large) to make sure if I want to see them at a theater or not.  Chances are, I hate the story and the ending and would have thrown popcorn at the screen if I hadn't checked ahead of time what the spoilers revealed.  I know it comes across as finding out what the Christmas gift was and re-wrapping it, but considering how much movies disappoint me these days, I'd rather not waste my time or money. 

[aradia22]

Quote

I'm ambivalent on Diablo Cody's output, but one thing she does well: Writing female characters who are allowed to not be "awesome badass superchick", but flawed, selfish and unpleasant. 

Fair, though I think in her case it's cover for the other flaws in the writing. Like, this narrative lacks proper structure and these characters are behaving irrationally (not like, in a way that's not ladylike but in a way that makes no sense and is infuriating to watch). Also, I watch a lot of TV from female creators who are fine representing flawed, selfish, and unpleasant female characters. So Cody doesn't impress me. Ab Fab came out in the early 90's. Anyone giving credit to Cody for openng the door to these kinds of characters hasn't been looking hard enough for interesting female characters. 

I do like Harley Quinn but I grew up with BTAS and she was one of the more complex female characters I'd seen at the time. And I liked that she was a ganster's moll. Of course there's a difference between giving a character like that some depth and expecting her to have enough juice to power all kinds of spin offs. 

I generally don't mind spoilers but I do stay away from reviews and analysis if I'm trying to have the most organic, unsullied experience of something. I can still enjoy something if I know what's going to happen but sometimes I want to have my own experience of it before I hear what anyone else thinks. Recently, I did that for Parasite.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, magicdog said:

RE: The subject of spoilers:

I tend to look up spoilers and/or summaries of various films (especially if they're lauded by critics and the media at large) to make sure if I want to see them at a theater or not.  Chances are, I hate the story and the ending and would have thrown popcorn at the screen if I hadn't checked ahead of time what the spoilers revealed.  I know it comes across as finding out what the Christmas gift was and re-wrapping it, but considering how much movies disappoint me these days, I'd rather not waste my time or money. 

Spoilers not only saved me about $40 on tickets but also the added aggravation from having witnessed for myself the travesty known as Abrams's Star Wars Add-Ons totally derailing my good impression from the Original Trilogy's end so HOORAY for spoilers existing so I can make the informed decision re whether or not  I want to bother with any movie or TV  production. I mainly use them if I'm unsure I want to see the productions (and sometimes I've actually SEEN productions after reading spoilers that wound up being better than I'd anticipated). Having no spoilers available makes as much sense as buying unlabeled canned soup! 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Blergh

[SmithW6079]

On 4/11/2020 at 4:02 PM, Ohwell said:

I hated Steel Magnolias.  The only person I could somewhat tolerate was Dolly Parton.  

On the plus side,

Spoiler

Julia Roberts dies (well, the character).

On 4/12/2020 at 12:59 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I would have written Sebastian Stan off as a pretty boy with decent charisma if I hadn't seen I Tonya. He's really good in that, to the point where I thought he should have racked up awards, and I've never thought that about him before.

Otherwise, I haven't been impressed by what he does, but  I feel like Sebastian has benefited from having a memorable face. He's handsome, but not with the square jaw that Hollywood usually goes for.

I thought he was good in "The Last Full Measure," even if the role is a little cliched.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Going back to Alfred Hitchcock, you know who I think is the most underrated "Hitchcock Blonde"?

Jo McKenna from The Man Who Knew Too Much.

Jo gets a lot of hate because she's not as cool as her counterpart from the 1934 original, she retired from a successful singing career for marriage and family (what? It was the '50s), and, well, she's played by Doris Day, who you either like or you don't.

Yet re-watching the movie (some good comes from this damn quarantine), I found that I really admire Jo. She's has a healthy suspicion of strangers that her yokel-ish husband Ben lacks, and had he listened to her earlier, maybe their son wouldn't have been kidnapped. Unlike many of Hitchock's heroines from this era, Jo dares to be vulnerable and refuses to hide her emotions (the scene where she finds out about what happened to her son kills me), and she also knows when to follow her gut instinct and act alone when necessary.

On top of that, Jo is a talented musician and she isn't afraid to question her husband or call him out on his crap. She may not be liberated, but she's hardly a Stepford Wife.

Oh, and did I mention that she thwarts an assassination? Yeah, it wasn't in the most badass way, but she still did it, and that should count for something. 

Screw boring, shallow, useless Melanie Daniels, let's give Jo McKenna her due!

Edited April 20, 2020 by Wiendish Fitch

[Dancingjaneway]

I don't like The Lion King. The music doesn't do it for me and the only characters that are halfway decent are Timon & Pumba. My favorite Disney (sans Pixar) movie is Emperors New Groove. It's funny, has catchy music & I could watch it a million times. 

[andromeda331]

3 minutes ago, Dancingjaneway said:

I don't like The Lion King. The music doesn't do it for me and the only characters that are halfway decent are Timon & Pumba. My favorite Disney (sans Pixar) movie is Emperors New Groove. It's funny, has catchy music & I could watch it a million times. 

I love the Emperor's New Groove! Its one of my top favorite. Its so funny and fun from beginning to end. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:03 AM, andromeda331 said:

I love the Emperor's New Groove! Its one of my top favorite. Its so funny and fun from beginning to end. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Ha! I love that waitress! Everyone is just so funny. Yzma is a terrible person and good villain but she's hilarious. I love when she tells Kronk off towards the end she includes his spinach buffs. Which not only makes him mad it ticks off his good angel/bad angel. Who are both hilarious and dumb. The devil wanting him to ignore the Angel because the Angel is wearing a dress and listen to him because the Devil could do that little dance and the Angel agreeing with him. I love Kuzco, Pacha and Yzma reaction when he looks like he's talking to himself. Kronk's and Yzma's reaction when he turns into llama. Kronk wanting to wait until after dinner, dessert and coffee to get rid of Kuzco's body. Yzma's reaction to being turned into a cat but then rolling with it. And remaining a cat. The guard turned into a cow asking if he could leave. Kronk working at the restaurant. Kuzco firing Yzma who repeats everything he said to her back at him when she's trying to kill him at the end. The wrong lever. All the different animals Kuzco gets turned into when Pacha picks so he insists on picking the next one and gets turned into a whale. Kuzco starts out terrible I love after he insults all the prospective women one has to held back from attaching him. I love Yzma wondering how Kuzco could fire her because she practically raised him. No wonder he ended up so terrible. 

[Shannon L.]

I love Emperor's New Groove.  It's definitely my favorite from that era.  Have any of you not looked at a squirrel or something and said "Squeak squeaker, squeak squeaken?"  (Thank you, Kronk, who is well versed in all the woodland creatures).  And this little gem from Pacha's daughter:

Yzma: All right, I've had enough of this. Tell us where the talking llama is and we'll burn your house to the ground.

Kronk: Er, don't you mean or?

Yzma: [even more angrily] Grr, tell us where the talking llama is *or* we'll burn your house to the ground.

Chaca: Well, which is it? That sounds like a pretty crucial conjunction.

I also love Kronk's scream and the way he recoiled in horror when he wakes up Yzma and she sits up with the face mask on and cucumbers on each eye. 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Shannon L.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I like Ewan McGregor best when he's playing villains or scumbags. Whenever he plays good guys, he always comes off as annoyingly drippy and sickeningly earnest. He almost seems to be mocking them. I mean, I guess he's supposed to come off that way in Moulin Rouge!, but what about all the other times?

Also, his singing voice bothers me. 

[starri]

Robin Williams' wild success in Aladdin was ultimately a bad thing for animation.  Once Pixar perfected the concept, it not only cost legitimate, talented voice actors work, it also encouraged absolutely lazy performances from celebrities just showing up for a paycheck.

This is not universally true--Pixar generally does get at least decent performances, and Kristen Bell, among a few others, has turned out to be legitimately great at it--but most of them are humdrum.

[proserpina65]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:55 AM, Dancingjaneway said:

I don't like The Lion King. The music doesn't do it for me and the only characters that are halfway decent are Timon & Pumba. My favorite Disney (sans Pixar) movie is Emperors New Groove. It's funny, has catchy music & I could watch it a million times. 

I'll go further than that:  I don't think I've liked a Disney movie since Bedknobs and Broomsticks.  I've hated all of their "renaissance" animated pictures.  All of them.

 

[Dancingjaneway]

I LOOOOVE Bedknobs and Broomsticks. I always felt it was an underrated classic. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

9 hours ago, starri said:

Robin Williams' wild success in Aladdin was ultimately a bad thing for animation.  Once Pixar perfected the concept, it not only cost legitimate, talented voice actors work, it also encouraged absolutely lazy performances from celebrities just showing up for a paycheck.

This is not universally true--Pixar generally does get at least decent performances, and Kristen Bell, among a few others, has turned out to be legitimately great at it--but most of them are humdrum.

I think Disney/Pixar does a somewhat better job at hiring big name actors who, you know, act in their animated roles, as opposed to coasting on their big names. James Earl Jones, for instance, is basically an acting icon, but you're not thinking about that when he voices Mufasa. It's a legitimate performance, and the fact that animation is a different medium shouldn't be an excuse for actors to half-ass it. I'm not a fan of Chris Pratt, but he was a good choice to play Barley in Onward. That isn't to say Disney hasn't muffed it a few times (Zach Braff as Chicken Little, anyone?)

Other than that, I completely agree with you. Sometimes big names are hired, even though they bring nothing to the table or are just coasting on their star power or public persona (Will Smith, I like you and all, but...)

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I think Disney/Pixar does a somewhat better job at hiring big name actors who, you know, act in their animated roles, as opposed to coasting on their big names. James Earl Jones, for instance, is basically an acting icon, but you're not thinking about that when he voices Mufasa. It's a legitimate performance, and the fact that animation is a different medium shouldn't be an excuse for actors to half-ass it. I'm not a fan of Chris Pratt, but he was a good choice to play Barley in Onward. That isn't to say Disney hasn't muffed it a few times (Zach Braff as Chicken Little, anyone?)

Other than that, I completely agree with you. Sometimes big names are hired, even though they bring nothing to the table or are just coasting on their star power or public persona (Will Smith, I like you and all, but...)

I would actually argue that Pixar does better than most animation studios because they try to hire the best actors for the role rather than the hottest actor they can find (I mean they are not DreamWorks). My favorite was that Tom Hanks was basically a mid-level actor coming off of I think Joe vs the Volcano when he signed on for Toy Story. They also got Craig T Nelson for Mr. Incredible, Patton Oswalt for Ratatouille, and Dave Foley for A Bugs Life. They also made 2 movies starring Albert Brooks and 2 starring Billy Crystal. Famous people sure but hardly A list huge name actors(no one is lining up for a movie because Billy Crystal is in it). If any other studio made Finding Nemo it would star Dwayne Johnson as Marlin and Rebel Wilson as Dory. Monster's Inc would be Mark Wahlberg as Sully and Ryan Reynolds as Mike. And instead of every movie having John Ratzenberger every movie would feature James Cordon.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[kiddo82]

Every time I watch The Incredibles I'm taken aback by how great Holly Hunter is in it.

[starri]

I think the quality of the performance is generally inversely proportional to how long it takes me to recognize the voice.  I honestly don't know if I would have realized Amy Poehler in Inside Out if the marketing hadn't said up front that she was Joy. Same was true of Kristen Bell.  I had somehow managed to avoid all publicity about Frozen and honestly did not know it was her until after the movie.

There are exceptions to that--Tom Hanks, Holly Hunter, and Ellen Degeneres have such distinctive voices they were never going to sound like anyone other than themselves.  But they also play the characters as characters.  

On the other hand, the Rock plays himself in Moana, but he gets away with it because he's so affable.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, starri said:

On the other hand, the Rock plays himself in Moana, but he gets away with it because he's so affable.

He also works in Moana since he does have a reason to be cast with his Pacific Islander heritage.  That is one thing I have liked abut Disney since Mulan, they make the effort to find a person with the correct heritage to do the voice work instead of just giving the job to a white person.  

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, starri said:

On the other hand, the Rock plays himself in Moana, but he gets away with it because he's so affable.

If I did a live action version of Moana I would probably hire The Rock as Maui is Jason Momoa wasn't available, so it makes sense he would do the voice. 

 

[Shannon L.]

Not sure where to put this particular observation, but since I saw something similar discussed here a while back, I throw it here.  Someone said that Paul Rudd is definitely aging and I agreed that he was aging well, but definitely aging.  What struck me the other day is that if you want to talk about someone who doesn't appear to be aging much, I think Rob Lowe has Paul Rudd beat in that department.

[Winter Rose]

While I find the plot of The Last Jedi weak and the humor painfully forced (worse than in the other sequels), I have the most respect for it for at least trying to do character development. I do think it fumbled a bit in its approach but in this age of sequels and reboots and whatnot, I don't think there's enough of letting characters be characters and too much of this new character has to embody that old one. If all that matters is being reminded of original characters/dynamics, then I say let the original characters be front and center and damn if they're older - Harrison Ford is 77 and still doing Indiana Jones.

And TLJ isn't to blame for The Rise of Skywalker's failings... at least not the cause, maybe a symptom. Different people will have different ideas, that's a risk you run with no overarching plan (from what I saw). A dumb analogy I think of is when there's a station swap on cooking competitions, they're always clueless of what to make from their opponent's ingredients but they're all professionals and it's their job to use the resources at hand and make a satisfying dish. TRoS is still responsible for its own final product and it prioritized fanservice over storytelling. But giving a nod then pulling back, so as not to alienate the other side, just shortchanges everyone; you can't please everyone but you can sure as hell piss off everyone.

You want Kylo Ren to be an irredeemable villain, stick with it; you want to redeem him, take the time so he can turn AND be accountable, that's where the payoff is. But I know, that's work, it's easier to rip off Vader's end and call it nostalgia. Or acting like Rey/Finn/Poe were the "new" Luke/Leia/Han just because they happened to be the three main heroes of the sequels, when that was only established off-screen between TLJ and TRoS (time jumps don't equal character development) and their trust/importance was always undercut by never telling each other anything. Real unpopular opinion: Finn/Poe/Rose were more of a/better trio.

Of course nothing takes the cake of fanservice, to the point of incoherence, like Rey Palpatine Skywalker. Palpatine being back at all... oh but wait, it's a clone. Rey's his granddaughter... oh but wait, she's the granddaughter of a clone. Her parents loved and tried to protect her... oh but wait, her father was (also) one of the clones, making her (also) clone Palpatine's daughter. But Ian McDiarmid probably can't pass for her father so let's focus on grandfather. Not that this was even all in the movie, some was pathetic overcompensation afterwards. Or that being a Palpatine doesn't define you, that you don't need a name to be somebody (ironically a message TLJ already conveyed in Rey Nobody... which I actually liked) is immediately undermined by Rey taking the name Skywalker because legacy is all that matters. The novelization even said it was Leia's wish that Rey continue the Skywalker legacy (with Poe carrying the Organa legacy and Ben with the Solo legacy). But I get it, 'Skywalker' is more profitable for the brand than 'Rey'.

TL;DR: Own your writing choices, don't let fanservice come at the expense of storytelling.

[Avabelle]

I don’t think Mila Kunis is a good actress. I don’t know how she has managed to carve out such a great care but fair play to her as I don’t think she has any acting chops. Every role she plays is just the same performance over and Over.