S09.E08: The Truth Comes Out

[Roslyn]

9 hours ago, loki310 said:

I kept nodding and he asked me if I understood and I said sort of. And then he asked me which friend’s daughter had scoliosis and so I said this girl on Sister Wives and then he walked out of the room. Lol

But...did he roll his eyes where you could see him...or did he politely wait until he had his back to you...walking out of the room...

[Juliegirlj]

If Ysabel had been having regular checkups with a pediatrician her scoliosis would have been diagnosed years ago~ there is no way to know if early diagnosis could have changed her prognosis. 

Christine is ignorant and vain. Complaining that Ysabel may have a large scar on her body! No one wants their kid to have a scar, but there are so many more important things to be considered. Plus, obviously Ysabel will see the episode and it will only make her more insecure about it. 

Meri is obtuse. It is obvious that Kody does not have any desire to mend their relationship. He basically acknowledged that he and Meri would not have stayed together in a monogamous marriage. Meri is a narcissist, with troubled interpersonal relationships. If she wants that B&B, she should finance it herself. Unbelievable that she expects the family to chip in. Rent her Vegas house to Caleb and Maddie, and move in with her mom in the B &B. 

Kody should just be honest with Meri and tell her they are over. I feel embarrassed and humiliated on Meri’s behalf- have some pride and own up to your mistakes and accept the consequences. 

[KeeperOfTheIce]

On 3/5/2018 at 8:56 AM, Galloway Cave said:

I too was wondering why Ysabel's scoliosis wasn't caught earlier, then I realized that all the kids were homeschooled until they went to Las Vegas. Christine didn't catch it because she has no idea what to look for. And Yzzy wasn't checked until later, when she had already developed her curve. That may explain why Christine is a little more hysterical than she usually is about things. She may be feeling some guilt. Even Janelle said as much in her tweet.

Unless there is a noticeable deformity or caught during a routine physical most of the time it goes unnoticed.  Girls at that age are awkward anyway - some with poor posture, shy and still not used to changing body so they stay covered up - difficult for a parent to notice a deformity unless the kid is in a bathing suit.  As goofy as the Browns are I wouldn’t fault them on missing this.  With the kids not attending a public school until later they probably were never screened - in Texas kids are screened in 6th & 9th grade - all states have some kind of required screening in public schools. 

The thing I find most irritating is the putting off of the surgery.  I’m a pediatric nurse and have taken care of many kids after scoli surgery - majority of the time the prognosis is great and all the pain of surgery and the tough recovery is so worth it in the end.  The surgery is no joke - very painful, the kids are in ICU for at least 24 hours then spend average of 5 days in the hospital.  

The whole scar convo - geez, having a scar down the back should be the least of your worries.  These people need to get their priorities straight. 

[Roslyn]

13 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Back in Vegas, Maddie and Caleb are preparing for an ultrasound.  One of their wedding dreamcatchers is hanging on the wall.  They roll up to a place called Baby's First Image.  Maddie tells us that she's planning on a home birth because birth is more natural than the U.S. makes it out to be, but she will have a midwife there.  Robyn pops up to tell us that there's nothing wrong with a woman having her baby in a hospital, but nothing beats a home birth where your mom and stepdad and their giant camera can sit right in the splash zone.  The ultrasound shows that the baby has a lot of hair and male appendages.  Caleb thinks the baby has a temper because he gets upset when you poke at him.  Maddie says that Axel will need his space with all the Browns wanting to get in his face.  On the couch, the adults confirm that they'll be all over the baby.  Back at the appointment, Maddie and Caleb see a 3D view of the baby's face.  Maddie thinks he looks like Caleb.  Their plan is to have 3 or 4 kids about 2 years apart.  

 

Two things occurred to me during this scene...

First I realized the woman doing the ultrasound was the same woman who did Robyn's way back when Robyn told her with a glow on her face that "this baby is his 18th (or something) child!!!" and the lady's eyes just about popped out...because she was trying to figure out how Robyn had managed 18 kids...but....then the bombshell of Kody and his harem...shock and awww at it's best.  Yea.  Weird, but it was the same ultrasound operator (no idea what they are officially called)

Second.  While watching the short scenes with Maddie and Caleb it occurred to me that the Maddie that we all fell in love with, the girl with the feisty attitude who would gladly stand up to her parents and was going to do what she wanted in her life, and she had her OWN opinions...that Maddie.  She is gone. The girl on the screen, who is very pregnant (what is UP with those dress skins she wears!?), the girl sitting next to Caleb is now Caleb's wife.  Maddie seems to have completely lost her own identity and has morphed into Calebs female counterpart. It's actually really sad.  But I guess not surprising, most likely a symptom of needing a strong male in her life and not having her father, but then losing what they did get to Robyn, and then the other strong man in her life, Logan, left for university and moved on with his life.  It's still really sad.

[LuvMyShows]

15 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

If Mariah thought this, that would be pretty unfair and immature of her. You can’t help who you are/are not sexually attracted to. Mariah of all people should understand that.

A straight woman isn’t automatically homophobic just because she’s  uninterested in another woman. I’m straight and I would be “skeeved out” in that situation, too. (I wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place, but hypothetically...) Likewise, I wouldn’t blame a lesbian for being grossed out if she fell for a man posing as a woman. If she finds men as sexually unappealing as I find women then I wouldn’t judge her for not magically changing her orientation to accommodate a catfish. 

 

Very thought-provoking and well-said.

 

20 hours ago, Ravenna said:

But what's funny about a woman is she'd rather be right than be loved.  - The Gospel According to Kody the Klown

That statement sums up what he thinks about his wives, and women in general.  How dare they question him, or even dare ask, as Christine did in a joking manner, to admit he was wrong. 

Kody did what's called a "sucker's choice" (has other names, like false dilemma, false binary, etc.), whereby someone's wording makes it seem like we have to make a single choice between two distinct and opposing options.  And regardless of how Christine tried to have both, the significance is that Kody views those as two opposing options, and it's heart-breaking to me for the lives these women must lead.  In his mind, if the wife is correct and he is wrong, then he can't also feel love for them.  

Also, I noticed something in the TH with Kody and Christine on the couch talking about Ysabel's scoliosis, when Christine starts sobbing and leans into Kody.  Kody puts his arm around her, but his hand is barely on her back, and it looks like his hand is there simply because he knows he has to...there is no emotion, or care, or comforting, in the gesture/motion.  And it looks like he robotically retracts his arm as soon as she's 'done'.

[VedaPierce]

21 hours ago, Ravenna said:

But what's funny about a woman is she'd rather be right than be loved.  - The Gospel According to Kody the Klown

 

That statement sums up what he thinks about his wives, and women in general.  How dare they question him, or even dare ask, as Christine did in a joking manner, to admit he was wrong. 

That statement right there was so bizarre! What does that even mean? Can she not be both? Is it one or the other?? What the hell is he babbling about? 

Also his 'look', his, ahem, hairstyle. It's horrible. It's not working, he doesn't see himself in the mirror? He should be sporting a buzz cut now. 

[Absolom]

12 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

So now we know it was not a generous  act on her part to get divorced so Robin could Marry and protect her kids but wouldn't there  be a settlement of some kind? .

To get any money when divorcing, there first has to be something to be divided.  She may have been lucky to walk away with only her own debts.

[ginger90]

Since what is being shown now was filmed more than a year ago, I wonder if the surgery has been performed. 

One of the wives had tweeted about how filming this was to bring awareness, but I guess storylines come first.

[Galloway Cave]

11 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

One of the wives had tweeted about how filming this was to bring awareness, but I guess storylines come first.

Oh, absolutely. I'm sure they told Ysabel she was doing something heroic and wonderful, telling her story to other kids and being an inspiration to them. Then behind closed doors, they were saying thank god, we got another season. The Browns are more than willing to pimp out their own kids as seasoning for the gravy.

[Madding crowd]

Dr Phil always asks the would you rather be happy or be right question. It always annoys me because it suggests you would be happier lying and saying you were wrong about something when you know you weren’t. I also think people use that kind of thing as a control tactic.

Christine bugs me at the best of times but worrying about a scar rather than her daughters health was awful. I heard the same kind of thing from my sister in law. My niece fractured her arm in three places and needed surgery at age 14. The first thing out of SIL’s mouth was: You will never be able to wear a strapless wedding or prom dress-isn’t that sad! I reassured my niece that should wear whatever she wants. 

[Kohola3]

13 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Since what is being shown now was filmed more than a year ago, I wonder if the surgery has been performed. 

I am going to guess not.  The Brown Famewhore Family has some sort of deal with People magazine so if there had been surgery, I would imagine that they would have pictures and a story.  They did a story about Ysabel at the scoli place when she started there.

[beeziebee]

On March 5, 2018 at 6:46 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Meri is afraid that if she gets her celestial marriage absolved, she won't be able to enter the celestial kingdom after death

If I recall correctly from having watched ALL the seasons of Big Love (the Sister Wives prequel), if Kody (Meri's celestial husband and priesthood holder), does not call her special name and pull her through the veil, she will be cast out to outer darkness for eternity.  If she really wants to get her own B&B on her husband's planet, she better get herself another husband who will pull her through the veil, because Kody is D-O-N-E, done!  

Edited March 7, 2018 by beeziebee

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I am going to guess not.  The Brown Famewhore Family has some sort of deal with People magazine so if there had been surgery, I would imagine that they would have pictures and a story.  They did a story about Ysabel at the scoli place when she started there.

I didn’t know that! So, before it was shown on the show? Hmmmmm.

[mxmummy]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:24 AM, riverblue22 said:

I have no sympathy for Meri.  She has put no work into being a part of that family as far as I can tell.  Has she helped Robin with her brood, helped chauffeur kids to practice, etc? An extra pair of adult hands could find plenty to do in support of that family.  They have even said she often doesn't show up for family events.  She wants her queen position back, and until Kody gives it to her, she is on strike.  Buh-bye Meri,  your crap don't work no more!

I think Meri's mother has something to do with that mortgage.  I don't know if it was money from her own sold house or money she had but somehow she must have played into the decision.  Do we know who is on the mortgage?  Annie had no money to contribute, and it's too bad because I think she could be successful with a B&B. 

I have to agree on no sympathy for Meri. Her sister wives have all these kids and even though she was only able to give birth to one child she could be involved with all of those kids. She could have an absolute blast spoiling and having fun with the kids but she chooses to be alone and do her own thing. Not much of a sister wife if you ask me. Just too selfish!

[Higgins]

4 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Well here's the fly in that ointment...she had no problem at all casting aside her belief in Kody's celestial Heaven when she was making plans to escape with a wealthy Catholic.

It seems she was willing to trade the promise of Kody's kingdom for a heaven on earth, flying private jets and international residences.

Who wouldn't?

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, beeziebee said:

If I recall correctly from having watched ALL the seasons of Big Love (the Sister Wives prequel), if Kody (Meri's celestial husband and priestholder), does not call her special name and pull her through the veil, she will be cast out to outer darkness for eternity.  If she really wants to get her own B&B on her husband's planet, she better get herself another husband who will pull her through the veil, because Kody is D-O-N-E, done!  

Good points!  It's coming back to me now.  Ahhh...Big Love.  One of my all time favorites. 

[kimaken]

48 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Since what is being shown now was filmed more than a year ago, I wonder if the surgery has been performed. 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the doctor said that Ysabel's curvature was at 38% and they usually do surgery at 50%. He estimated the curve changing at a rate of 1% per month, so there would be about a year before surgery would need to be done. I thought he also said the alternative methods (exercises, etc) wouldn't hurt in the meantime although they probably will not help the outcome. I think the family is hoping they won't have to do surgery, but they're going to take this year to try the alternative measures, but if/when Ysabel's curve reaches the 50% rate, she'll have to undergo surgery then.

[gardendiva]

I read some of the posts before watching the episode, and I was getting the impression from some posts here that they were going to take Ysabel to some alternative quack in the place of actual medical treatment, but in reality I pretty much agree with what they are doing. The brace isn’t working, surgery is not yet an option...why not explore other therapies that cannot hurt and have the chance of improving things?

As for the ridiculous scar drama, I would be grateful for that scar because it meant I had access to the surgeons, facilities and medical equipment that could fix my problem. If she were born in an earlier time or a less developed country, she would never get the chance for the surgery and have to live with this her whole life. That scar should be looked upon with gratitude.

[ginger90]

42 minutes ago, kimaken said:

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the doctor said that Ysabel's curvature was at 38% and they usually do surgery at 50%. He estimated the curve changing at a rate of 1% per month, so there would be about a year before surgery would need to be done. I thought he also said the alternative methods (exercises, etc) wouldn't hurt in the meantime although they probably will not help the outcome. I think the family is hoping they won't have to do surgery, but they're going to take this year to try the alternative measures, but if/when Ysabel's curve reaches the 50% rate, she'll have to undergo surgery then.

This was filmed more than a year ago, that’s why I wondered if in real time she has had the surgery yet.

[Celia Rubenstein]

5 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Well here's the fly in that ointment...she had no problem at all casting aside her belief in Kody's celestial Heaven when she was making plans to escape with a wealthy Catholic.

It seems she was willing to trade the promise of Kody's kingdom for a heaven on earth, flying private jets and international residences.

 

55 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Who wouldn't?

Someone who truly believes in the tenets of her professed religion which include the notion that marriage is for eternity? 

Someone who values her family as much as Meri claims to?

Someone with enough brains to realize that a young, gorgeous millionaire whom she had never laid eyes on did not fall in love with her via Facebook im's and was not going to ride in on a white horse and rescue her from her life of anger and resentment and transport her to a world of luxury and perpetual adoration? 

[Galloway Cave]

33 minutes ago, gardendiva said:

I read some of the posts before watching the episode, and I was getting the impression from some posts here that they were going to take Ysabel to some alternative quack in the place of actual medical treatment,

Blame that on TLC's description. They said it was an unproven alternative treatment, which implies something whacko that hasn't been used or had any measurable results yet. Instead the Browns took her to a type of treatment that does have a record of proven results, although the results appear to be all over the board and in most cases seems to be temporary and negligible. Even the girl they filmed had good results at first but had to return to the facility when her curve returned. As Ysabel's own doctor said, it couldn't hurt and at least she learns some exercises to help with her core strength. At $9000 a pop, I hope their insurance pays for all of it.

[Normades]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Very thought-provoking and well-said.

 

Kody did what's called a "sucker's choice" (has other names, like false dilemma, false binary, etc.), whereby someone's wording makes it seem like we have to make a single choice between two distinct and opposing options.  And regardless of how Christine tried to have both, the significance is that Kody views those as two opposing options, and it's heart-breaking to me for the lives these women must lead.  In his mind, if the wife is correct and he is wrong, then he can't also feel love for them.  

Also, I noticed something in the TH with Kody and Christine on the couch talking about Ysabel's scoliosis, when Christine starts sobbing and leans into Kody.  Kody puts his arm around her, but his hand is barely on her back, and it looks like his hand is there simply because he knows he has to...there is no emotion, or care, or comforting, in the gesture/motion.  And it looks like he robotically retracts his arm as soon as she's 'done'.

I took that whole three little words scene as just playful banter.  My hubby and I say those kind of things all the time.  I don't think he was really serious, just being playful and snarky.  I liked seeing that Christine seems to be happier.  I don't see those comments as a big dill.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

This was filmed more than a year ago, that’s why I wondered if in real time she has had the surgery yet.

It's hard to know exactly when filming takes place; they jump around so much. Maddie was just announcing her pregnancy to everyone a few weeks ago, now she's 7 months, and next week she's giving birth. But IF Ysabel's brace stuff was filmed when Maddie was 7 months, that would be about March. So yea, roughly one year ago. Ysabel was at 40% curveature, and I believe the doctor said if he guessed by the rate she was going, she'd reach 50% in 11 months. Now that's just a guess. It's possible she's not at 50 yet. 

[Absolom]

Ratings are in:  1.396 M viewers and a .37 rating.

[Latenites]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Ratings are in:  1.396 M viewers and a .37 rating.

I know nothing about tv ratings. Is that a good rating? How does it compare to their previous ratings? I'm hoping the show isn't cancelled. Would someone kindly explain it?

[Kohola3]

24 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But IF Ysabel's brace stuff was filmed when Maddie was 7 months, that would be about March

They were in MI at that scoliosis clinic in May of last year.

[TheGreenWave]

3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Also, I noticed something in the TH with Kody and Christine on the couch talking about Ysabel's scoliosis, when Christine starts sobbing and leans into Kody.  Kody puts his arm around her, but his hand is barely on her back, and it looks like his hand is there simply because he knows he has to...there is no emotion, or care, or comforting, in the gesture/motion.  And it looks like he robotically retracts his arm as soon as she's 'done'.

That's because it was distracting him from performing his patented LOOK OF SERIOUSNESS that he does so well (also known as shark eyes in the distance).  :-)

[Tabbygirl521]

7 minutes ago, TheGreenWave said:

That's because it was distracting him from performing his patented LOOK OF SERIOUSNESS that he does so well (also known as shark eyes in the distance).  :-)

I forget if it happened when he was holding Christine, but there was one scene where he was doing the stoic shark-eyes thing and looking downward - but I saw a tear come out of his eye. I am never crazy about Kody but I think he was trying to be all “manly” and “family leader” and put on a show of strength.  

[DakotaJustice]

37 minutes ago, Latenites said:

I know nothing about tv ratings. Is that a good rating? How does it compare to their previous ratings? I'm hoping the show isn't cancelled. Would someone kindly explain it?

Shoot me, but over the weekend I made a spreadsheet to see how the show has done in the ratings over time. This is, with a couple of minor exceptions, the lowest rated season of SW in its history. 

I equate this to a kid who has a C average at school. Just high enough to graduate and stay afloat but I doubt Kody will be able to demand a big fat raise especially compared to, say, 90DF which is probably a cheaper show to produce.

[ghoulina]

51 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

They were in MI at that scoliosis clinic in May of last year.

Okay. So that hasn't even been a year. I specifically remember the doc saying that at the rate she was going, he thought it would be another 11 months until she hit 50. Maybe a bit more or less, I don't remember the exact amount. I just remember thinking to myself that it might be another year before she needs surgery for certain. 

[xwordfanatik]

8 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Well here's the fly in that ointment...she had no problem at all casting aside her belief in Kody's celestial Heaven when she was making plans to escape with a wealthy Catholic.

It seems she was willing to trade the promise of Kody's kingdom for a heaven on earth, flying private jets and international residences.

Absolutely.  When she believed some hot rich guy was lusting after her, she was ready to flee the whole shebang.  

This is what I don't get:  why does she still have anyone in her corner?  Even the dumb fans that buy her LuLaNo crap?  Their mindset is something I could never understand.  

So now it seems that the TLC cash is all she's in it for.  I really think delusional Meri and TLC should just cut their losses and put this not-convincing-if-it-ever-was shitshow out of its misery.

[kassa]

First of all, because I am twelve, let me say that with the Brown family lazy speech, every time they say "Axel" it sounds like "Asshole."  "Can't wait to meet Baby Asshole!"

 

7 hours ago, B3cky50 said:

As someone with an "ugly scar"...... I too thought this whole rant by Christine was really offensive. 

I found it peculiar that somebody who even four years ago was chiding her girl children to never show their shoulders or elbows was suddenly going on about bathing suits and backless wedding gowns.  Yes, I recognize that the Brown girls threw out the plyg dress code in Vegas, and I'm glad the parents have chosen not to make it an ongoing battle, but that's quite a change for her. 

Christine has evolved quite a bit -- in an early season she was the one who freaked out when the older kids wanted to join some social activity with non-plyg kids (girl scouts or something like that?) and she worried it would be too worldly an influence on them.  We shouldn't forget that her family of origin was smack in the middle of the Short Creek raid and her sense of paranoia was fostered from an early age, making any social progress even more impressive.   I think she's easily come the furthest of any of the adults, and I've been glad to watch her discover her fighting spirit again in the past year.  Whatever their (perceived) flaws, I think it's a bum rap to say they're not seeking proper medical care. The doctor said she was past the point where the brace would do any good, but not yet at the point where they would perform surgery.  If she can build her core and back muscles up it will only make recovery easier, so no harm done even if that's all that is achieved.

While I'm sure they were grateful to find a place for Ysobel to get help while awaiting surgery, I assume "promotional consideration was provided by..."

[ginger90]

On Christine’s Twitter, quite a few people commented asking if there has been any improvement. No answer to any of them.

This was the tweet:

[gardendiva]

1 hour ago, kassa said:

First of all, because I am twelve, let me say that with the Brown family lazy speech, every time they say "Axel" it sounds like "Asshole."  "Can't wait to meet Baby Asshole!"

God help me, I will not be able to call that child anything else now.?

[Libby]

I think that it's very telling that before people in the family spend a period of time with Meri, they think that it's best to see a counselor. Janelle with the march and Kody with the trip to see the B&B both felt that they needed to have a session with Nancy before they went.

Meri must truly be unbearable to be around.

[CassinaFaye]

So because I am nosy, I looked up the bed and breakfast in Utah.  I think Meri is spending something like $350k for that place.  HOLY  CRAP, that is a lot for that.  I hope none of it was brown family money (which I wonder how much they really have to begin with).

I am over Meri on the show.  I loved how Kody was saying without the others they would not have lasted 10 years and she wondered how much better (paraphrasing) they would have been without the others.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

4 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Just high enough to graduate and stay afloat but I doubt Kody will be able to demand a big fat raise especially compared to, say, 90DF which is probably a cheaper show to produce.

Isn’t it amazing that paying to follow multiple idiots around the globe while they visit other idiots could be cheaper than staying in Nevada and watching these bumpkins bounce off the walls?!

16 minutes ago, CassinaFaye said:

So because I am nosy, I looked up the bed and breakfast in Utah.  I think Meri is spending something like $350k for that place.  HOLY  CRAP, that is a lot for that.  I hope none of it was brown family money (which I wonder how much they really have to begin with).

They always seemed to be living on credit and bad choices from what I can tell. I imagine anything in those homes that wasn’t financed into the mortgage (washing machines! Good Lord, these people) belongs to Rent-a-Center. Financial planning dumpster fire, party of 27!

[pupper]

Chiming in.... I had a 13 degree scoliosis in two places; an S curve. I treated it with chiropractic and Pilates. It has diminished and much more manageable now. Alternative treatments do work, not with everyone, but they do work. And because I worked on my spine from the inside out, my spine is much stronger and I have full mobility of it. 

[MargDelahunty]

On 05/03/2018 at 1:27 AM, RoxieRambles said:

I recently signed up to join in on the snark....long time lurker. I liked all of your comments because they all are truly valid points! I must say tho....snarking on the Brown's has made me feel a little better about my own pathetic marriage. Who am I to judge what works and what doesnt... I wish you  all the best. Tonight I have realized after 21 years, my marriage is over....its been a pleasure :)

I am there too. Eleven years in, and yes. It sucks. Sending lots of empathetic love your way, sister.

[Gothish520]

10 hours ago, KeeperOfTheIce said:

Unless there is a noticeable deformity or caught during a routine physical most of the time it goes unnoticed.  Girls at that age are awkward anyway - some with poor posture, shy and still not used to changing body so they stay covered up - difficult for a parent to notice a deformity unless the kid is in a bathing suit.  As goofy as the Browns are I wouldn’t fault them on missing this.  With the kids not attending a public school until later they probably were never screened - in Texas kids are screened in 6th & 9th grade - all states have some kind of required screening in public schools. 

The thing I find most irritating is the putting off of the surgery.  I’m a pediatric nurse and have taken care of many kids after scoli surgery - majority of the time the prognosis is great and all the pain of surgery and the tough recovery is so worth it in the end.  The surgery is no joke - very painful, the kids are in ICU for at least 24 hours then spend average of 5 days in the hospital.  

The whole scar convo - geez, having a scar down the back should be the least of your worries.  These people need to get their priorities straight. 

They are not putting off surgery - Ysabel is not a candidate yet. Her curve has not hit the 5o degree mark required to perform the surgery.

[mamey2422]

10 hours ago, Roslyn said:

Two things occurred to me during this scene...

First I realized the woman doing the ultrasound was the same woman who did Robyn's way back when Robyn told her with a glow on her face that "this baby is his 18th (or something) child!!!" and the lady's eyes just about popped out...because she was trying to figure out how Robyn had managed 18 kids...but....then the bombshell of Kody and his harem...shock and awww at it's best.  Yea.  Weird, but it was the same ultrasound operator (no idea what they are officially called)

Second.  While watching the short scenes with Maddie and Caleb it occurred to me that the Maddie that we all fell in love with, the girl with the feisty attitude who would gladly stand up to her parents and was going to do what she wanted in her life, and she had her OWN opinions...that Maddie.  She is gone. The girl on the screen, who is very pregnant (what is UP with those dress skins she wears!?), the girl sitting next to Caleb is now Caleb's wife.  Maddie seems to have completely lost her own identity and has morphed into Calebs female counterpart. It's actually really sad.  But I guess not surprising, most likely a symptom of needing a strong male in her life and not having her father, but then losing what they did get to Robyn, and then the other strong man in her life, Logan, left for university and moved on with his life.  It's still really sad.

ITA. Someone upthread mentioned how Maddie looks for approval so much, and I’ve noticed that specifically with her interactions with Caleb. We don’t see a ton of their relationship in screen so it’s hard to tell how healthy it is. 

6 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Shoot me, but over the weekend I made a spreadsheet to see how the show has done in the ratings over time.

You are my hero. I love TV ratings ?

[Gothish520]

10 hours ago, Roslyn said:

Two things occurred to me during this scene...

First I realized the woman doing the ultrasound was the same woman who did Robyn's way back when Robyn told her with a glow on her face that "this baby is his 18th (or something) child!!!" and the lady's eyes just about popped out...because she was trying to figure out how Robyn had managed 18 kids...but....then the bombshell of Kody and his harem...shock and awww at it's best.  Yea.  Weird, but it was the same ultrasound operator (no idea what they are officially called)

Second.  While watching the short scenes with Maddie and Caleb it occurred to me that the Maddie that we all fell in love with, the girl with the feisty attitude who would gladly stand up to her parents and was going to do what she wanted in her life, and she had her OWN opinions...that Maddie.  She is gone. The girl on the screen, who is very pregnant (what is UP with those dress skins she wears!?), the girl sitting next to Caleb is now Caleb's wife.  Maddie seems to have completely lost her own identity and has morphed into Calebs female counterpart. It's actually really sad.  But I guess not surprising, most likely a symptom of needing a strong male in her life and not having her father, but then losing what they did get to Robyn, and then the other strong man in her life, Logan, left for university and moved on with his life.  It's still really sad.

I understand why some may feel that way, but...things do change when you become a couple. You are a team now, and it's not all about you. To use Maddie looking at Caleb when Kody asked if she would be going to the Utah march as an example: I absolutely do not believe for one second that a woman should defer to her husband and his opinions whenever someone asks a question. But there are many times when, as a couple, you look to the other to gauge their reaction or see what they have to say on something. My husband and I have both done that. Sometimes you are just sharing a look and taking a minute to gather thoughts, or what have you. I am very strong-willed and voice my opinions constantly, but there are certainly times when I look over at Mr. Gothish and say "It's up to you, hon." And he's done the same with me.

I also have to say that I've noticed many women go into "mommy mode" after having a child, and seem to become much more subdued, at least for a time. Stress, lack of sleep, preoccupation with their child and their needs, what have you - lots of reasons why a woman may seem different for a while after giving birth.

[Pachengala]

16 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Exactly. I was getting downright annoyed by the mini-breakdowns, the "ugly scar at the beach, ugly scar at prom..." Yes, it's surgery but quite honestly, I went through an ACUTE illness with a child (we're talking 12% chance of complete recovery) and the one thing I kept doing was to listen to the doctors, research on my own, and remain level-headed for my kid and the rest of my family. Her histrionics are ridiculous- and Ysabel is not in danger of death or life-altering disability.  

You’re right on about Ysabel feeling like she let her parents down. Between the scars and eventually needing surgery despite scoliosis ‘boot camp,’ she’s going to come away with a mess of issues and unresolved emotions about this. With parents like these, who needs enemies? Edited: I was actually moved to quote you to say how sorry I am that you and your child had to go through that. As a Mom my heart ached for you reading this. Good vibes to you! 

 

14 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Well here's the fly in that ointment...she had no problem at all casting aside her belief in Kody's celestial Heaven when she was making plans to escape with a wealthy Catholic. 

You seriously just blew my mind. This whole time I’ve been like, ‘Well, she’s been taught he’s the key to her salvation, and that’s hard to deprogram, blah blah blaaaah...’ when duh, of course, there’d be a Meri-shaped hole in the wall if Sam had been real. Facepalm. I should have realized this on my own.

 

5 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

This is what I don't get:  why does she still have anyone in her corner?  Even the dumb fans that buy her LuLaNo crap?  Their mindset is something I could never understand. 

[Sheepishly raises hand] I’m not specifically in her corner, but polygamy is such an insidious, evil thing that I can’t help but feel bad for the women who are trapped within it, whether physically or emotionally and spiritually trapped, and I will always pull for them to get out. I will say, having read these boards for awhile now, I’ve cooled on Meri tremendously, but I blame polygamy for making her manipulative and vindictive—what other tools is she allowed?—and will always root for her to get away from that bitchy succubus Kody.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Pachengala
I forgot to comment on the whole reason I started commenting.

[Meghzie]

9 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I understand why some may feel that way, but...things do change when you become a couple. You are a team now, and it's not all about you. To use Maddie looking at Caleb when Kody asked if she would be going to the Utah march as an example: I absolutely do not believe for one second that a woman should defer to her husband and his opinions whenever someone asks a question. But there are many times when, as a couple, you look to the other to gauge their reaction or see what they have to say on something. My husband and I have both done that. Sometimes you are just sharing a look and taking a minute to gather thoughts, or what have you. I am very strong-willed and voice my opinions constantly, but there are certainly times when I look over at Mr. Gothish and say "It's up to you, hon." And he's done the same with me.

I also have to say that I've noticed many women go into "mommy mode" after having a child, and seem to become much more subdued, at least for a time. Stress, lack of sleep, preoccupation with their child and their needs, what have you - lots of reasons why a woman may seem different for a while after giving birth.

My husband and I do this, especially when dealing with in laws. It’s easy for us to jump full force into ideas our own families have, but not always as comfortable when it’s not your own family. So we gauge each other’s reactions. 

[neh]

 Meri, Meri, Meri....Please take your ugly ass shoes and your whiney entitlement off my screen.  Meri is even more awful when followed by Ysabel and her strength.

[sharkerbaby]

On 3/5/2018 at 10:42 AM, Granny58 said:

First, I in no way condone affairs...at all.  Marriage is for life (IMO) unless there are huge issues such as abuse, etc.  That said....I can't lay this all at Meri's feet.  She is a human being with the need for love and attention....and add to that the inability to have more children (from personal experience, this is cyclically devastating).  Kody was getting PLENTY of love and attention, but obviously Meri was not.  He, in fact, was having an "extra-marital" relationship in the actual sense.  I see them as equally responsible for the catfishing. 

I see it as them both being responsible for issues in their relationship.  Meri, however, is wholly and completely responsible for getting caught up and pursuing "Sam" in the catfishing debacle.

 

On 3/5/2018 at 4:45 PM, Pingaponga said:

Did Kody actually say something along the lives of monogamous couples would split if there were problems, but polygamists don't because "it's about a family, not just two people"? 

Because yes, I just have one husband, but we do have a family.  Granted, we have one child and not 18, but I still consider us a family.

So I took this comment as an acknowledgement that polygamy (and the large family) had provided a kind of buffer that allowed them to mask their dysfunction rather than admit to it and confront it.

 

On 3/5/2018 at 10:34 AM, Granny58 said:

I forgot about the homeschooling, but they never had pediatrician check ups?  Yeah, what am I saying...probably not. 

On 3/6/2018 at 10:36 AM, Juliegirlj said:

If Ysabel had been having regular checkups with a pediatrician her scoliosis would have been diagnosed years ago~ there is no way to know if early diagnosis could have changed her prognosis.

I thought most if not all states had medical requirements in order to attend public schools.  It seems like almost every year I'd get a notice that before my kids could start the school year they needed proof of this or that medical exam and/or vaccine, and good gracious if they were involved in a sport - it was even more involved.  My pediatrician wouldn't give a medical sign off of anything without a full check-up so even if I did have an aversion to doctors, in order to be in the public school system my kids had to go in at least one a year.   Plus my daughter received a scoliosis check during her gym class for I think 5 or 6 contiguous years.   They've been in the Vegas public school system plenty long enough to have had these checks and balances in place.

 

On 3/6/2018 at 6:46 AM, Xena said:

"The Brown parents are not behaving in a responsible manner regarding a critical, urgent medical matter for one of their offspring, because they are idiots and they don't really care about anything except how much money it will cost; talk to your board-certified physician to determine the best treatments available for your particular situation." 

I think they are behaving in a responsible manner in that they are consulting with a board-certified medical specialist about exploring possible treatments in the interim since according to the doctor it is too early for surgical intervention.  He went further to state that the therapy they were interested in would not hurt nor further the progression, in fact may provide some side benefit in that it would provide a mechanism for strengthening her core and help ensure she does not become brace dependent.  Additionally, I heard nothing that gave any hint they were doing it out of concern for how much surgery would cost, in fact, the boot camp is quite costly and most likely not covered by insurance if it is classified as alternative.

 

22 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

Blame that on TLC's description. They said it was an unproven alternative treatment, which implies something whacko that hasn't been used or had any measurable results yet. Instead the Browns took her to a type of treatment that does have a record of proven results, although the results appear to be all over the board and in most cases seems to be temporary and negligible. Even the girl they filmed had good results at first but had to return to the facility when her curve returned. As Ysabel's own doctor said, it couldn't hurt and at least she learns some exercises to help with her core strength. At $9000 a pop, I hope their insurance pays for all of it.

(the following comment is not directed at you @Galloway Cave simply quoting you as a jumping off point)  ahh, and that is why one should not jump to conclusions and start spouting off and demonizing the Browns before the episode even airs.

[Gothish520]

7 minutes ago, sharkerbaby said:

I think they are behaving in a responsible manner in that they are consulting with a board-certified medical specialist about exploring possible treatments in the interim since according to the doctor it is too early for surgical intervention.  He went further to state that the therapy they were interested in would not hurt nor further the progression, in fact may provide some side benefit in that it would provide a mechanism for strengthening her core and help ensure she does not become brace dependent.  Additionally, I heard nothing that gave any hint they were doing it out of concern for how much surgery would cost, in fact, the boot camp is quite costly and most likely not covered by insurance if it is classified as alternative.

 

(the following comment is not directed at you @Galloway Cave simply quoting you as a jumping off point)  ahh, and that is why one should not jump to conclusions and start spouting off and demonizing the Browns before the episode even airs.

THIS x 1000!

This is something I really struggle with on message boards and on social media in general. It is rampant. Opinions are wonderful, speculation is wonderful - but condemnation and name-calling based on false information or NO information drives me nuts.

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, sharkerbaby said:

(the following comment is not directed at you @Galloway Cave simply quoting you as a jumping off point)  ahh, and that is why one should not jump to conclusions and start spouting off and demonizing the Browns before the episode even airs.

Well, you are being very nice here, but I was one of the posters that was a little pissed off at the description! TLC didn't need to add the descriptor of unproven to the episode description. They could have just said alternative treatment. It's like they are trying to throw some shade at the Browns at this point. Don't need to do that, the Browns are capable of doing dumb stuff all on their own.

[Gothish520]

5 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

Well, you are being very nice here, but I was one of the posters that was a little pissed off at the description! TLC didn't need to add the descriptor of unproven to the episode description. They could have just said alternative treatment. It's like they are trying to throw some shade at the Browns at this point. Don't need to do that, the Browns are capable of doing dumb stuff all on their own.

Lol yes I agree, but you know what TLC is all about - ratings and drama. Even the way they edit the previews is just to make it seem melodramatic and to get people worked up. All reality shows are guilty of this. 

I've said it before - TPTB don't care why you're watching, just as long as you're watching.

[ghoulina]

18 hours ago, Libby said:

I think that it's very telling that before people in the family spend a period of time with Meri, they think that it's best to see a counselor. Janelle with the march and Kody with the trip to see the B&B both felt that they needed to have a session with Nancy before they went.

Meri must truly be unbearable to be around.

Fuck the actual therapy. I'd just ask for enough drugs to get me through the trip.