S08.E10: The Lost and the Plunderers

[nodorothyparker]

Quote

Groups unite their forces and converge on the Hilltop as Aaron and Enid search for allies. Simon takes matters into his own hands.

[JackONeill]

Really. Nothing? Kind of like the episode!

[Quilty]

I completely forgot about Enid and Aaron. Time to FF.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I "watched" the episode by reading the comments in the Live Thread.  Do you know what percentage I feel like I missed, or feel any type of guilt about doing so?

The same percentage of time that Negan has ever spent being silent....... a big fat ZERO.

[gutbuster]

It is hard to get behind Negan mourning Carl when he was one second away from killing Carl himself, before pop-up Shiva stopped him.

[Mu Shu]

Well that was boring.  

[Iguessnot]

My response got cut from the pre-air thread, but they need to keep off the roads because the Saviors will be driving down these same roads looking for them. We don't even know how much time passed between the Saviors and Rick visiting the Garbage Pail Kids, but they are both on the same road.

[AngelaHunter]

What the... ? Jadis could only speak three disjointed words at a time and now she can monologue with the best of the them, while wearing a filmy nightdress? Freaking surreal. Do we care why she lives in a dump? I never thought I'd be saying, "Jadis - shut up." The zombie chop meat was pretty disgusting.

The only thing that made sense was Negan saying Rick wants to kill him but he won't. Yeah, we know that and had to hear it again. A threat repeated umpteen times loses its impact. Oh, and Rick? Shouldn't be reading other people's mail, you know.

[Starchild]

So is Jadis going to go off and found another (comic) group?

[oakville]

I am happy that jadis's garbage pail group was killed. They were annoying. Simon will probably get killed by Negan for disobeying his orders.

Rick's threat to kill Negan again  is hollow. He had a chance to kill him last season when they attacked the Sanctuary & Negan & his crew were giving a speech outside.  Instead they shot at windows . The writers dropped the ball again.

I suspect that the writers like to focus on innovative ways to kill people. The "solar powered" meat grinder was a brilliant idea to get rid of her supporters.

I don't see why the Oceanside people would listen to Enid & Aaron. Rick took their weapons & they killed Grandma by accident.

I agree with Negan that Rick is responsible for Carl's death. Rick destroyed Alexandria with his incompetence.

[Straycat80]

I hope this ‘war’ ends soon. Hardly anyone left in the Kingdom. No one but Jadis and her art is left at the garbage dump. Not sure where everyone from Alexendria went. So many people dead. Oceanside would be smart to stay hidden. If things keep going the way they are the only ones left will be Negan and Rick dialogueing each other to death. 

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, oakville said:

Rick's threat to kill Negan again  is hollow. He had a chance to kill him last season when they attacked the Sanctuary & Negan & his crew were giving a speech outside.  Instead they shot at windows .

And when he had Negan on the floor with no weapon, yet chose to merely tap him a few times with the handle of the bat.

I actually find Simon more annoying than Negan. He's such a cartoon. Every word, everything he says is a punchline or a sneer or just plain stupid, with his posturing and smirking and, as my CC told me [sucking teeth]. Hate.

[oakville]

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

And when he had Negan on the floor with no weapon, yet chose to merely tap him a few times with the handle of the bat.

I actually find Simon more annoying than Negan. He's such a cartoon. Every word, everything he says is a punchline or a sneer or just plain stupid, with his posturing and smirking and, as my CC told me [sucking teeth]. Hate.

Agreed. I still like Simon more than Negan but that was a dumb move to wipe out the Garbage crew. Negan will have to kill Simon for not obeying orders. Taking away their weapons was standard Savior protocol.

[Starchild]

4 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Not sure where everyone from Alexendria went. 

Didn't they all go to Hilltop?

[AngelaHunter]

12 minutes ago, Starchild said:

So is Jadis going to go off and found another (comic) group?

roflmfao! I'm picturing her wandering in to Toon Town, like in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit". Maybe someone will drop a safe on her. Choking on my potato chips here.

[peach]

13 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Didn't they all go to Hilltop?

Yes. One would assume Rick and Michonne would be keen on getting to them ASAP, esp to make sure Judith is safe.  But nope, Jadis it is.

[TattleTeeny]

At some point between the massacre and Rick & Michonne's arrival, Jadis took some time to un-pointy her eyebrows.

[MichaelaRae]

I'm really proud of Rick pulling over to walkie Neegan. DISTRACTED DRIVING KILLS, Y'ALL, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE THE ONLY CAR ON THE ROAD. #themoreyouknow

But seriously, how many drivers have run into trouble because they stopped paying attention to the road and found themselves dodging road zombies?? A LOT.

[peach]

So who is Lost and who are the Plunderers?

[Prairie]

Oh man, am I really going to have to stop watching this show? I thought Rick’s story would always be enough to keep me, but it’s at the point where I’m so bored I can’t even pay attention:(

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

13 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I'm really proud of Rick pulling over to walkie Neegan. DISTRACTED DRIVING KILLS, Y'ALL, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE THE ONLY CAR ON THE ROAD. #themoreyouknow

But seriously, how many drivers have run into trouble because they stopped paying attention to the road and found themselves dodging road zombies?? A LOT.

Lori says hi.

[EllipticalAddicted]

We learned more about Jadis from her brief chat with Simon than we have since she arrived on the scene.   She has solar panels and a helicopter pad.   Before the world was zombified, it sounds like she was using the dump as an escape from reality and turned it into her little funky art studio.    We also discovered that that little funky wire cat sculpture that Rick was, at one time coveting, is not just a one time thing.  Jadis likes cats!   She likes to paint em and sculpt em and make little wire thingies of em.   She's just a crazy, mixed up cat lady!   Thank you, Walking Dead producers n stuff, for showing us that she's a good person who loves cats, uses art to express herself and probably sees the world as her stage!    <jazz hands>

Edited March 5, 2018 by EllipticalAddicted

[oakville]

4 minutes ago, Apricotte said:

Oh man, am I really going to have to stop watching this show? I thought Rick’s story would always be enough to keep me, but it’s at the point where I’m so bored I can’t even pay attention:(

Rick is not a good leader. He keeps getting his people killed .  He made a stupid decision to make a deal with Hilltop to wipe out the Saviors without knowing how many Saviors existed or how many outposts they had. I still don't understand how he let the quarry walkers get close to Alexandria.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 minutes ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

We learned more about Jadis from her brief chat with Simon than we have since she arrived on the scene.   She has solar panels and a helicopter pad.   Before the world was zombified, it sounds like she was using the dump as an escape from reality and turned it into her little funky art studio.    We also discovered that that little funky wire cat sculpture that Rick was, at one time coveting, is not just a one time thing.  Jadis likes cats!   She likes to paint em and sculpt em and make little wire thingies of em.   She's just a crazy, mixed up cat lady!   Thank you, Walking Dead producers n stuff, for showing us that she's a good person who loves cats, uses art to express herself and probably sees the world as her stage!    .......insert jazz hands here.......

Ah, I finally got it....  that's why she wanted a naked sculpture of Rick, because all the hair/beard(whiskers) made her think he was a big talking cat.  Makes sense now.

[oakville]

3 minutes ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

We learned more about Jadis from her brief chat with Simon than we have since she arrived on the scene.   She has solar panels and a helicopter pad.   Before the world was zombified, it sounds like she was using the dump as an escape from reality and turned it into her little funky art studio.    We also discovered that that little funky wire cat sculpture that Rick was, at one time coveting, is not just a one time thing.  Jadis likes cats!   She likes to paint em and sculpt em and make little wire thingies of em.   She's just a crazy, mixed up cat lady!   Thank you, Walking Dead producers n stuff, for showing us that she's a good person who loves cats, uses art to express herself and probably sees the world as her stage!    <jazz hands>

It's obvious that the Helipad & Solar panels were mentioned for a reason.

I could care less that Jadis liked cats or lived in a dump. It's irrelevant.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Quilty said:

I completely forgot about Enid and Aaron. Time to FF.

Someone mentioned Tara in the other thread. I'd forgotten that she existed, and then wondered if she was still alive. 

I didn't watch. I have no interest in seeing people fed into a meat grinder, as I said elsewhere. I've had at least five laughs-out-loud from reading the chat thread, and this one, though. Or giggles. :)

[maystone]

I liked it. Right off the bat we saw that Rick's mercy has a ways to go in overcoming his wrath. Hang Carl's gun off his grave marker, and take it back in less than a minute. Leaving Jadis in that graveyard of a dumpsite; the continued (empty) threats to kill Negan. I actually loved the walkie-talkie scene between Rick and Negan. There was just enough truth in Negan's rant against Rick that Rick will never get past.

I know I'm definitely in the minority, but I've always liked Jadis and Simon. Fwiw, back when Jadis and her junkyard gang were introduced, I posted that I thought their whole schtick of stylized speaking was created to give them a group identity. Yay for validation. I don't think we'd ever seen them just hanging out at home; for all we know, they only pulled out the special syntax when they were interacting with outsiders. Of course, it's all a moot point now.

I think Simon's character is hella interesting. Forget Negan's backstory - I really want to know more about Simon. He couldn't possibly have lived long enough to see the dawn of the ZA acting the way he does now. I mean explosive, literally killer rage would find you locked up pretty early on in life. He must have been able to control it, as he does with Negan after a fashion. And I love how verbal he is; the man is not uneducated, and he does have a talent for the dark humor.

Mostly, I enjoyed that this episode was a break from the all-out shooting and bombing that we've had to get through up until now.

[Boofish]

32 minutes ago, peach said:

So who is Lost and who are the Plunderers?

I'm assuming it is an ode to the sign outside of Alexandria - mercy for the lost vengeance to plunderers (not verbatim maybe)

[peach]

7 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I'm assuming it is an ode to the sign outside of Alexandria - mercy for the lost vengeance to plunderers (not verbatim maybe)

I'm rolling me eyes.

[AngelaHunter]

52 minutes ago, peach said:

One would assume Rick and Michonne would be keen on getting to them ASAP

Oh, Judith will be fine! Just like she and Carl would be just fine with a homicidal maniac comin' to call at Alexandria all the time to wreak havoc while Rick and Michonne were taking their little jaunt around the countryside, having sex and picnics.

[Boofish]

6 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, Judith will be fine! Just like she and Carl would be just fine with a homicidal maniac comin' to call at Alexandria all the time to wreak havoc while Rick and Michonne were taking their little jaunt around the countryside, having sex and picnics.

Sex and Picnics - band name; called it!!!

[sigmaforce86]

1 hour ago, oakville said:

Agreed. I still like Simon more than Negan but that was a dumb move to wipe out the Garbage crew. Negan will have to kill Simon for not obeying orders. Taking away their weapons was standard Savior protocol.

That was the one thing I really wanted to see out of a 75% boring episode.....when Neegan told Rick they help (or was it save?) people I soooo wanted Rick to say something like "the way you helped the junkyard group, by killing everyone?"  Just waiting for the payoff when Neegan realizes Simon majorly disobeyed.  Is it wrong that I'm sort of looking forward to a meeting between Simon and Lucille?

[catrox14]

OMG this has to be one the worst episodes this show has ever done.

So which producer is madly in love with the actress who plays Jadis? Why is she a thing? This is so terrible.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

Sex and Picnics - band name; called it!!!

Nice one.

I was gonna go with the episode being a call-back title... when Rick was plundering Michonne's (picnic) basket.

Michonne:  The shag carpet to sit on was a nice touch, Rick, but where's the sausage?  

Edited March 5, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Shriekingeel]

Someone remind me what the blue stuff is or is supposed to mean. 

[Christi]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

And when he had Negan on the floor with no weapon, yet chose to merely tap him a few times with the handle of the bat.

I actually find Simon more annoying than Negan. He's such a cartoon. Every word, everything he says is a punchline or a sneer or just plain stupid, with his posturing and smirking and, as my CC told me [sucking teeth]. Hate.

Its like he is doing an over the top Negan impression....how is that fucking possible?

NO OOOOONE talks like Negan, let alone Simon chewing the scenery around him..(ok Jadis too)

This show has become a parody of itself, and is hard to get through an episode..

idiots

2 hours ago, Apricotte said:

Oh man, am I really going to have to stop watching this show? I thought Rick’s story would always be enough to keep me, but it’s at the point where I’m so bored I can’t even pay attention:(

I was really looking forward to the show evolving when Caaarrol takes over for Rick...oops

[thuganomics85]

While I could care less that we no longer have to deal with the Obnoxious Trash Hipsters, how exactly is Simon going to prevent Negan from finding out what he did?  Is everyone else who was there going to tow the line?  Why would take side with Simon over Negan?  I just can't see Simon being able to keep this hidden for very long.  Hell, I was expecting Rick to inadvertently give it away over the radio.  Unless Simon is planing a coup, I don't see him last much longer.

Hey, we got some hints over how Jadis' mind ticks.  She's basically some cat loving "artist", who wanted to create a community of her own, and that's why everyone was talking like pontificating dolts.  Sort of like how Ezekiel hams it up, but at least he doesn't make everyone else talk the way he does.

Oh, right, Enid and Aaron still exist.  As does Oceanside.  Seriously, Oceanside should just continue to hide in the woods and let everyone dig their own graves.  Especially since the guns that Rick and the gang "commandeered" from them, are now in the Saviors' hands.  That was such a brilliant plan!

Rick and Negan's conversation went as expected.  They're totally setting up Negan to be in the right somehow.  Yep, Abraham and Glenn had it coming!

At this point, I'd think a live feed of the contract spats between Lauren Cohan and TPTB would be more interesting to watch than what is currently happening on screen.

[mxc90]

I am hoping the "applesauce" or whatever that was Jadis ate was poison.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

While I could care less that we no longer have to deal with the Obnoxious Trash Hipsters, how exactly is Simon going to prevent Negan from finding out what he did?  Is everyone else who was there going to tow the line?  Why would take side with Simon over Negan?  I just can't see Simon being able to keep this hidden for very long.  Hell, I was expecting Rick to inadvertently give it away over the radio.  Unless Simon is planing a coup, I don't see him last much longer.

Actually... if it weren’t for Rick and Michonne crashing the dead-Heapster Party, it’d think Simon could pass it off very easily:

“Yessir, Negan sir, Jadis and her whole crew were upset that I capped one of them - just like you told me to, sir - but they seemed resigned to the situation.  Guess after we left they got their wind up and decided to take off, just like that bunch of women did a while back.  No sir, I don’t know where they might’ve gone, sir, but we can do some looking around....”

One good thing about mass murder in the zombie apocalypse - it solves a LOT of problems for you when the evidence gets up and walks away under its own power.

The only hiccup I can see under such circumstances is, why on earth would Simon leave Jadis alive?  Granted it would give Simon plausible deniability and/or an out if he was ever on a polygraph and asked if he’d killed Jadis, or ALL the GPKs - but (a) I don’t see a polygraph as being that much in play these days, and (b) I’d think any perceived advantage to letting Jadis live would be more than outweighed by the jeopardy introduced in leaving a living, breathing witness walking about.

[queenanne]

I think the writers need to learn, that what makes an interesting or passable for discussion single-panel moment in a comic, is not necessarily going to be useful, or even sensible, played-out at length as a TV talking point.

[kelslamu]

But.....but we just wanted to save you guys.  Why wouldn't you just let us savvvveeee you and give us half of what you had?  Seriously?  Why tell someone you are going to kill them?  Just do it, Rick.  It would have been nice if you had killed Negan the first umpteen opportunities you had though.  Now, it's just anti-climactic.  I find myself watching and sighing a lot.

Oh, and Simon just made me think he was trying to emulate Negan the whole time.  Negan, himself, is more than enough.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by kelslamu

[kelslamu]

7 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

Someone remind me what the blue stuff is or is supposed to mean. 

Well, Rick stepped in it too.  Maybe Jadis will say it was Rick and Simon got there later and saved her or something stupid like that.

[nodorothyparker]

10 hours ago, maystone said:

I liked it. Right off the bat we saw that Rick's mercy has a ways to go in overcoming his wrath. Hang Carl's gun off his grave marker, and take it back in less than a minute. Leaving Jadis in that graveyard of a dumpsite; the continued (empty) threats to kill Negan. I actually loved the walkie-talkie scene between Rick and Negan. There was just enough truth in Negan's rant against Rick that Rick will never get past.

I know I'm definitely in the minority, but I've always liked Jadis and Simon. Fwiw, back when Jadis and her junkyard gang were introduced, I posted that I thought their whole schtick of stylized speaking was created to give them a group identity. Yay for validation. I don't think we'd ever seen them just hanging out at home; for all we know, they only pulled out the special syntax when they were interacting with outsiders. Of course, it's all a moot point now.

I think Simon's character is hella interesting. Forget Negan's backstory - I really want to know more about Simon. He couldn't possibly have lived long enough to see the dawn of the ZA acting the way he does now. I mean explosive, literally killer rage would find you locked up pretty early on in life. He must have been able to control it, as he does with Negan after a fashion. And I love how verbal he is; the man is not uneducated, and he does have a talent for the dark humor.

Mostly, I enjoyed that this episode was a break from the all-out shooting and bombing that we've had to get through up until now.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I liked it, but upon reflection I don't hate it and can see the ideas the writers were playing with and what I think they were trying to do.  As is often the case with this show, there were a couple of kernels of something there.  And as you say, it's a break from our groups of the infinite ammo just randomly shooting at each other like we're supposed to know what's going on.

More than one reviewer has said this episode demonstrates why Steven Ogg should have been tapped to play Negan if they were going for the crazy charismatic leader and I can see that too.  Jeffrey Dean Morgan may have been perfectly great in other things but he's been utterly tiresome here, all gimmick and skinny-ass swaggering "my dick and my balls," which I realize is probably at least partly down to playing a comic character who has never translated well to TV and what's written on the page, but the end result has been a character who has eaten an inordinate amount of screen time without ever coming off as an actual human being we're supposed to feel anything about except maybe in his reaction to the news of Carl's death.  JDM showed there that he can act and convey actual human emotion, but what are we supposed to take from that when he's been set to kill or maim Carl at least twice since the last season premier and was just fine with bombing the piss of out of Carl's home the last two episodes?  Being momentarily worried that maybe his side caused it doesn't change the fact that they very easily could have and would have had a shot landed differently.  Making him right that Carl shouldn't be dead because he was the future doesn't do anything but piss us off all over again that the story decision was made to do it, just as making him right that Rick bears some responsibility for it by being so busy engaging in endless dick measuring without seemingly being able to just end it no matter how times he may threaten to watch out for his kid doesn't help either.

The Simon-Jadis scene was surreal on first watch, yet oddly affecting the more I think about it.  Loved Simon just coming out and asking what the deal with living in trash is, even if it seems like it probably should have come up sooner.  Ogg was doing some decent work there, fairly vibrating with rage that he'd been overruled in wanting to cut losses and then in pushing and pushing until he got the reaction he wanted to justify doing what he'd clearly wanted to do  The garbage people were poorly conceived and fleshed out, so I certainly won't miss them but since the show obviously intends this to not be the end of Jadis's story, I could appreciate the show laying out that the weird speech patterns and flat disinterested affect were a coping mechanism that somehow caught on just as Ezekiel's RenFaire cosplay did at the Kingdom.  Even if it comes too late for us to really care much or explain the choreographed circling of her followers.  

Nothing about the Enid-Aaron-Waterworld costumed girls of Oceanside makes a lick of sense.  We're going to keep you captive while we talk about killing you for killing grandma and then let you go, but not until after we listen to some little nobody girl threaten us first.  Enid, they've met our group.  I don't think they're going to consider them friends or good guys.  Considering that you were brought on as a sort of love interest for a main character who was just killed off, you've never had any consistent character development, and now the only prominent male characters on the show who aren't gay are at least pushing 50 you might want to do less to give them a plausible reason to kill you off too.

[Dobian]

So Jadis can talk normal after all.  Well that was my big takeaway from this episode.

[AngelaHunter]

9 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 Is it wrong that I'm sort of looking forward to a meeting between Simon and Lucille?

If that's wrong, I hope I'm never right. I was hoping he'd get his dome crushed and his sneering blabber shut down last night.

[Smad]

10 hours ago, oakville said:

Rick is not a good leader. He keeps getting his people killed .  He made a stupid decision to make a deal with Hilltop to wipe out the Saviors without knowing how many Saviors existed or how many outposts they had. I still don't understand how he let the quarry walkers get close to Alexandria.

 

8 hours ago, Christi said:

I was really looking forward to the show evolving when Caaarrol takes over for Rick...oops

I've been asking myself for years why anyone would follow Rick. The guy is stupidity and destruction personified. For the longest time I wanted Michonne to be the leader. Carol would be good too but only if she ever achieved balance. Michonne had that balance. She was smart and tactical, brutal when needed, she was calm and collected in almost any situation, moral but not in a black & white sort of way, compassionate to others. I could list more but all of these attributes made her a perfect Wartime and Peacetime Leader. The Rick of the last few Seasons is neither. Sadly that Michonne is gone now that she is nothing but Rick's shadow.

[Ohwell]

I was really, really hoping that Cindy(?) would shoot Enid.

[sarthaz]

21 minutes ago, Smad said:

 

I've been asking myself for years why anyone would follow Rick. The guy is stupidity and destruction personified. For the longest time I wanted Michonne to be the leader. Carol would be good too but only if she ever achieved balance. Michonne had that balance. She was smart and tactical, brutal when needed, she was calm and collected in almost any situation, moral but not in a black & white sort of way, compassionate to others. I could list more but all of these attributes made her a perfect Wartime and Peacetime Leader. The Rick of the last few Seasons is neither. Sadly that Michonne is gone now that she is nothing but Rick's shadow.

Michonne would be the perfect leader, so naturally she's written as a support system for a lunatic man.

Such a strange feeling to give zero fucks about this show now.  I'm so distracted while watching it.  It was 42 minutes before anything even happened.  None of the characters are internally consistent anymore, and I have no idea what anyone's motivation is at this point.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

As for Rick, he should have saved Jadis.

The fact that she tried to kill him by walker a couple times, shot him and pushed him off the catwalk, stripped him and held him prisoner and then double-crossed him may have finally cooled his weird ardor for her. About time, too.

I was thinking about why I find Negan and Simon - "bad" guys who are so not scary or intimidating or "bad ass", unlike Joe Claimer or even Gareth. I know Negan is insecure, and reading this explanation on how to do "intimidating" by Ray Stevenson holds the answer:

Quote

The key to playing an intimidating character is not to play him intimidating, because that weakens you. It’s that sort of thing about dick-swinging. The guy who steps up and goes, “You better not, or else!” — he’s the weakest guy in the room.

Negan, with his threats and yelling and bullying and bat/dick swinging and bragging just comes off as weak.

[Ohwell]

I can't wait for Enid to find out that Carl is dead.  Then maybe she'll know how the Oceansiders felt when she shot Grandma.