S22.E09: The Women Tell All

[backformore]

3 hours ago, b2H said:

I still want to hear the statement Krystal made that CH referred to.  That would be far more interesting than ‘Merp’.

Spoiler

Supposedly she said that Arie let the losing bowling team join the party because he "wanted to make out with all the c*nts" and she called Arie a "needle-dick". 

Hidden so people can choose to not know -  I'm not spoiling the ending. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by backformore

[yorklee2]

Quote

Seinne would make a wonderful bachelorette

Yes she would. Intelligent, classy, and beautiful. And I think the producers wouldn't have any problem finding men who would love to date her.

Let's just hope the producers would have the presence of mind to forgo the one who's showing all the desperation to become the lead like they did when they went with Nick over Luke. Those of you who watched the Bachelor Winter Games you know exactly what I'm talking about. 

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Seems to be differing opinions about Tia but I just can't understand how anyone could like her after she showed her true colors with backstabbing Bekah like she did. And I say that not because it was Bekah in particular. It wouldn't have mattered who it was it was the principle of the matter. It was just skeevy and low class. And she's so transparent in her desire to be the Bachelorette. She was practically groveling. I saw a interview with her after the WTA taping and she made the statement that America loved, "tears and vulnerability" in response to be asked about her reaction after being eliminated

Ick, Tia. What "America loves," is a little bit of authenticity.  Also talking about how much more mature than Bekah you are while wearing one of Shirley Temple's baby-doll dresses was kind of funny.

Once again, I found myself disliking the women who were dog-piling Krystal more than Krystal herself and that's a lot of dislike, considering how obnoxious Krystal was during the show and how every minute she's on screen she brings herself down a little lower.  She usually dates "real men?"  Would that be the steroid pumped morons from your gym, Krystal?  If a race car driver with a high school education is her idea of a "fancy pants,"  I hate to think of the cavemen she's been dating.

Bekah got off easy from Krystal because she was doing much more elaborate mocking than Caroline did.  Plus all Bekah's criticisms of Krystal were ironic because they were the same things Bekah is glaringly guilty of.  Like, "Curating a presence,"  I wouldn't have known what that was if not for Bekah's season long demonstration.  Bekah also did more lecturing to Krystal than anyone else and the previews had me hoping Krystal would bring all that up, but it didn't happen.

Caroline just looked like an hysterical schoolmarm with her "sociopath," remark and her sobbing, "For shame!" attitude to Arie.  What ever he's going to do tonight, doesn't really concern her so take a seat, nonentity. 

I snickered when I saw it was Lauren who took over Bibiana's love bed, it must have been really magical to get Lauren to the final three.  Too bad, Bibs, now you're relegated to making over- reactions on the loser bench while wearing the ugliest beige dress in a night of worst dresses ever.

Clearly I have nothing nice to say about anybody, except for my favorite Jenna who looked gorgeous in her green dress but was barely shown.

Edited February 26, 2018 by JudyObscure

[phlebas]

Looking at them all together, I was surprised how little I remembered from early on. Annaliese and Bibiana, and pretty much no one else until Krystal's boot.

So I was surprised to realize Maquel wasn't there -- that is, surprised that I remembered there's a Maquel and also to realize she wasn't on.

[adhoc]

Stan39--Thanks for the Arie/Krystal summary!

Quote

And then she tried to apologize for calling him needledick, to which it was revealed that Arie hadn't even seen all the horrible things she said about him.

Bwahahaha! In that case, I'd like to have seen his face when she said that.

[alexa]

I guess I missed this one... had no idea it was on.  Maybe that is a good thing from what you have all said?  lol  I would have liked the Krystal/Arie thing however, but I bet I can find that online somewhere.

[Stan39]

11 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

I think the producers allowed that to stay in so viewers would tune back in to find out what she was talking about. 

In other words, she was a producer plant and Arie was in on it. :(. That makes sense given that after her "heartfelt appeal" Arie barely acknowledges it and CH doesn't ask a follow up question. Lame

[nutty1]

re: what Caroline said. Here are my thoughts.....

It has been shown in all the previews for the WTA. 

If you read Reality Steve, you’d want to watch to see how the comment is handled. They have you hooked. If you don’t read RS, you’ll want to tune in to see what she meant. And then, for the unspoiled, well, of course you’ll keep watching now!

[adhoc]

I neither like nor dislike Krystal.  I got the impression that no matter what she said last night, the other women were not going to accept any sort of apology. Like there was just too much water over the dam/under the bridge by that point for any sort of rapprochement.  

One thing that I was surprised about is that Krystal made her nasty needle-**** and c*** remarks in the bathroom with the water running. I got the impression she didn't want anyone to hear them. Or was she actually talking to some of the other contestants?  

[Sage47]

Krystal didn’t look as pretty last night, she has a hard edge to her. I’m so glad Arie took her down. His body language always speaks volumes about his true feelings, ha. 

Bekah is very young however, she carries herself like a 40 year old. She is super self-assured for being only 22, woah. She never would have married Arie, she just wanted the ego boost of being chosen. Tia knew that but should have zipped it. 

Based on Caroline’s remark to Arie, I am guessing that he chose Becca as the “right, more mature” choice and then realized that his heart was always with Lauren. A Jason Mesnick thing. 

[Gregg247]

Well, I liked Krystal on the show, and I think I like her even more now.  She's done away with that fake little girl voice, and she sounds like an actual adult, which is much better.  Also, she really defended herself well when all the women were piling on her for her behavior and comments during the show.  (Arie's takedown of her, though, was pretty awesome.)  I don' think Krystal would be a very dependable girlfriend, but she was certainly entertaining, and she made this season much more enjoyable for me, so, Thanks Krystal!  See you this summer on BIP!

[Jax7917]

that glam shaming thing was the most ridiculous conversation ever. How old are these people? And if that's the thing they are fighting about, they have pretty nice lives.

[Rainsong]

The Women Tell All

In which eggshell-fragile egos are protected by deft real-time revisionism and emotional log rolling.

The first thing shown – and therefore the first thing noticed – is the audience.  Ostensibly gathered to provide an emotional reverb chamber where they cheer, boo and hiss on cue, some of them are FAR too involved in the ‘franchise’ for comfort.  We may pen longish missives about this candyfloss but it’s probably safe to assume that no denizen of this forum has ever designed, commissioned, purchased or worn a t-shirt or a sweatshirt with a Bachelor-themed slogan or meme.  There is, inexplicably, a male audience member wearing a Zorro mask.  These audience members would likely look down their noses at a WWE crowd as a knuckle-dragging rabble but are they not the (mostly) female equivalent of wrestling fans who give conditioned, predictable responses to the babyface, the heel and the turn?

After 8 solid minutes of filler, including a reprise of interviews with Corinne and Trish (they just can’t help themselves), we’re finally reintroduced to the Bachelorettes.  The army of Laurens has been recalled for active duty.  Jenna still stands out as an undimmed ray of sunshine.  She’s got the healthiest attitude to this somewhat unhealthy ritual ie to have fun with it and ride the waves rather than dive deeply into the drama.

Bekah M is a crowd favorite but appears to have pilfered the tassel ornaments from the gathers on a set of living room drapes (possibly from her posh employers) and has pressed them into service as earrings.  She’s also wearing vertiginous platform boots that the bandmembers of KISS would deem too tall for safety.

Even MORE filler is aired with videotape segments and the completely fabricated row between Chelsea and Marikh who are gullible enough to take the bait.  Tia doesn’t yet understand that her ‘I'm Arie’s lifeguard’ act achieved nothing since she is now sitting among the throng of also-rans.  Still, that doesn’t prevent her from having another go at Bekah with both slipping into the passive-aggressive I’m sorry-I’m hurt-who-struck-John routine.

The eternally annoying Bibiana pipes up.  She’s exhausted the show’s budget for double-stick tape for her ‘dress’ (quotes intentional).  Bibiana wiggles her head from side to side when she talks more than Jim Henson’s Muppets do.  But she launches the initial fusillade at Krystal who, of course, returns it with interest.  Caroline displays more spunk in this brief exchange than she did in the whole of the taped season, looking at Krystal with what can only be described as contempt complete with a serpentine curled lip.

Removed from the pressure cooker, Krystal has regained her footing in her personal world of make-believe in which she is rational, reasoned and, of course, more sinned against than sinner.  ‘Just be the real Krystal!’ demands Bekah, echoed by others.  I regret to inform you that this IS the real Krystal, ladies.  She is mostly artifice, physical and mental, constructed through dogged determination to compensate for or mask her difficult upbringing.  Krystal is so agitated her necklaces are visibly moving as her pulse pounds especially after Caroline steams in on her.  TWTA usually resembles a bad Jeremy Kyle episode (are there any good ones?) as producers and the host ‘talk up’ the guests, set them at each others’ throats, then bring things to a jarring halt as they disingenuously claim they want to keep the peace and, conveniently, run a block of ads.  Caroline, at least, can verbalize her feelings, impressions and memories, raw emotion notwithstanding.  Bibiana’s vocabulary, on the other hand, runs to a max of about 500 words.  According to her brand of cod-psychology, Krystal has ‘issues within that you need to confront within yourself.’  What insight!  She obviously believes her recursive clichés are profundities and they are delivered, as usual, with a smug expression.  She really does think highly of herself.  Krystal is a piker by comparison.

It’s difficult to shake the impression that Seinne is being set up – or even convinced – to become the next Bachelorette.  CH positively gushes:  ‘you’re an incredible woman…you have so many amazing attributes.’  Can we stop fetishizing the Ivy League yet?  Haven’t we all met grads from those schools we wouldn’t trust to use a toaster unsupervised?  Next, CH predictably trudges into racial territory.  Hasn’t this subject been exhausted by now, not least courtesy of an entire Bachelorette season?  Whence did the concept of ‘characters who look like me’ gain such irreducible currency?  Do we need to be mermaids to identify with Ariel?  Do we need to be wealthy orphans to identify with Bruce Wayne?  Do we need to be one-legged Bristolian pirates to identify with Long John Silver?  Seinne, to her credit, suggests that her statement stemmed as much from her parents’ difficult relationship and a lack of in-home role models but she jumps back on the Narrative Bus in the end.

Bekah defends her maturity by disputing social media posts.  Surely that’s the wrong way to go about it?  It should be pointed out to her that by keeping her age a secret (with the full cooperation, or even manipulation, of the producers, it should be noted) she lent it far more weight than perhaps it deserved.  If she pops out of her Mustang and says ‘Hi, I’m Bekah, I’m 22 but I’m definitely here because you’re here’ then she negates the issue entirely and even spins it in her favor.  But manufactured drama is a Bachelor specialty and Bekah was played like an autoharp as the producers pushed buttons and intentionally kept various individuals in the dark.

Bekah is mortified not by the missing persons report but by her cherubic mug shot in which she’s wearing peacock feather earrings that make her current pair look tame.  A Scrabble tile ankle tattoo?  Bekah blithely (if accurately) refers to ‘being kicked off the show’ and suggests in no uncertain terms that she got smoked up for a fortnight on a pot farm after her dismissal.  Teenagers eh?

To be fair, Tia may be the only one taking this whole thing seriously.  If this is an audition of sorts for Bachelorette then Tia is leading with her long, lean legs as her best feature because that serviette of a skirt isn’t hiding much.  One suspects that Tia might have a sneaky box of Marlboro Lights in the purse to help her relax after a crisis.  If the producers want a worldly female then she’s probably the wrong choice but if they want a true-believer ‘right reasons’ type, however naïve that may be, Tia’s the one.

Jacqueline looks smashing and is quite philosophical (read:  relieved) about the breakup with Arie.  Caroline, still on the warpath, ominously informs Arie ‘I know what you did.  And I don’t know how you could do that!'  Do what, exactly?!?  Most of us have been paying attention but this confrontation seems to refer to off-camera events.  Social media seems to be drawing a blank as well.  Aren't the women supposed to be telling ALL?

I’d honestly forgotten about the wrestling reference above but a WWE type appears on stage for no apparent reason so that’s brought full circle.

The ominous Big Decision trailer is aired as the finalists make their sales pitches.  Arie speaks with his parents and frets alone on a couch.  Perhaps he’s troubled by the ugly throw pillows.  But we hear devastated sobbing on the balcony as Arie reaches for the door kno…………[fade to black].

Edited February 26, 2018 by Rainsong

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I despise Bekah M. What a condescending little bitch. Tia told you to your face everything she said to Arie. She has every right to express her opinion. She never trashed or came at anyone.

Bekah is a snowflake millennial who thrives on perceived slights and gets off on being offended. If you're not kissing her ass, she's lecturing you on how to behave better.

Please dear Lord, let this be the last time her obnoxious face is on my TV. 

 

Admittedly I haven't watched much of this season because Arie is just a no for me. I tried, goodness knows I did but the one episode I attempted to watch was a complete snoozefest. I did however watch the Women Tell All and I didn't find Bekah condescending in the least and in fact was impressed with how articulate and reasonable she was in everything she said. Tia seemed tongue tied when confronted by her and just kept repeating the same tired big sister line and concern because Bekah essentially came at her clear and direct. When you approach someone in a calm, measured and mature way, especially if they've done you wrong, they usually end up cowering versus if it is just a scream fest where everyone is talking over each other. 

As for Tia telling her to her face what she said, again, I didn't watch the episodes so I may be incorrect but it seemed like she told her after she'd done it. So in other words, she questioned Bekah and put doubts into Arie's head about Bekah during their alone time and then came back and told Bekah she did it like that made it better I guess. And that's why Bekah questioned why she never had the conversation with her or questioned her about it since she claimed so much how she feels like a big sister towards her. It's like Iggy during Rachel's season, who would badmouth a guy to Rachel and then come tell them after he did it, right before the guy's alone time with Rachel, like because he told them, that suddenly made it so much better. 

Like I said, haven't watched the season because I don't care but I thought Bekah came across as poised and reasonable. As she said, there are women there 23, 24. Isn't the Lauren girl still left like 25 and word is she's already had two failed engagements. Is she any more ready for marriage? Arie is in his 30's and has had multiple failed relationships and I don't buy for one second he's ready for marriage. And I thought it was fairly insightful on Bekah's part when she said he was projecting his insecurities over feeling too old onto her and making it about her being too young and not ready for marriage. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Stan39]

39 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Admittedly I haven't watched much of this season because Arie is just a no for me. I tried, goodness knows I did but the one episode I attempted to watch was a complete snoozefest. I did however watch the Women Tell All and I didn't find Bekah condescending in the least and in fact was impressed with how articulate and reasonable she was in everything she said. Tia seemed tongue tied when confronted by her and just kept repeating the same tired big sister line and concern because Bekah essentially came at her clear and direct. When you approach someone in a calm, measured and mature way, especially if they've done you wrong, they usually end up cowering versus if it is just a scream fest where everyone is talking over each other. 

As for Tia telling her to her face what she said, again, I didn't watch the episodes so I may be incorrect but it seemed like she told her after she'd done it. So in other words, she questioned Bekah and put doubts into Arie's head about Bekah during their alone time and then came back and told Bekah she did it like that made it better I guess. And that's why Bekah questioned why she never had the conversation with her or questioned her about it since she claimed so much how she feels like a big sister towards her. It's like Iggy during Rachel's season, who would badmouth a guy to Rachel and then come tell them after he did it, right before the guy's alone time with Rachel, like because he told them, that suddenly made it so much better. 

Like I said, haven't watched the season because I don't care but I thought Bekah came across as poised and reasonable. As she said, there are women there 23, 24. Isn't the Lauren girl still left like 25 and word is she's already had two failed engagements. Is she any more ready for marriage? Arie is in his 30's and has had multiple failed relationships and I don't buy for one second he's ready for marriage. And I thought it was fairly insightful on Bekah's part when she said he was projecting his insecurities over feeling too old onto her and making it about her being too young and not ready for marriage. 

I think focusing on Bekah's age was stupid, for all the reasons pointed out by you and others. What people should have focused on was that there's no way she was into Arie. In the same aftershow Bekah described going camping on a marijuana farm in Northern California for two weeks with no cell connection. Arie's not doing that. He sees his parents 4-5 times per week. The same could be said about Jaqueline and her apparent inability to settle down because she's going to school. LOTS of students get married and have kids during grad school/med school/law school. Hell, those are great places to meet people with similar interests and goals. It just doesn't mesh with Arie. Let's face it, most of these women were too good for Arie. Bekah is ready for marriage and kids (maybe) she's just isn't right for Arie's version of those things. I think Bekah knew this. The way she spoke last night, she seemed more upset about why people were talking about her, rather than that she lost out on a really great guy. And I don't blame her. The whole thing was just silly. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, betha said:

Please refrain from hinting about the spoilers for those of us unspoiled! 

I agree, please stop, it is not entertaining nor funny to do it.

[b2H]

12 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

She said she felt Bekah was too young, and that she treated the show like a game.

I felt Bekah had a really good point in her interview with CH.  Yes, she is 22.  But many other of the women were in the early 20s to mid-20s and no one made a big deal about their ages.  She was singled out.  Period.  And not for any really decent reason.  In many ways, (IMHO), she came off better than some of the older girls.

[Jazzhands]

1 hour ago, Jaclyn88 said:

that glam shaming thing was the most ridiculous conversation ever. How old are these people? And if that's the thing they are fighting about, they have pretty nice lives.

Marikh irritated me so much in that original episode and again last night about that absurd “glam shaming.”  Chelsea wasn’t complaining that Marikh was adjusting her hair in a window reflection during a cocktail party, for example, but that during that Amazing Race-style challenge, Marikh was using the team’s compass to fix her hair rather than focusing on the task at hand, helping her teammates, and letting them use the compass for its intended purpose.  Marikh was acting like a selfish, self-absorbed jerk, and if she can’t see that distinction, then she’s either disingenuous or delusional. But instead she plays the victim of “glam shaming.”  No one hates you because you’re beautiful, Marikh (and you’re no Kelly LeBrock, either, lady), they hate you because you’re a jerk and a whiner. Ugh. 

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

She said she felt Bekah was too young, and that she treated the show like a game.

Which apparently Tia feels is SOOOO much worse than treating it like an audition for her own shot at Bachelorette. Tia should be happy Bekah wanted to win. It spared her from "winning" and losing her own shot at Bachelorette. There's now way Tia would have been happy had she won this season. I wouldn't be as bothered about her calling out Bekah for not being there for the "right reasons" if she, herself were actually there for the "right reasons".

That was....interesting...no, that's not the word, um, it was a show. Too much time on Poor Little Heartbroken Tia's audition for Bachelorette. Too much time on Krystal's idiocy. Though I am happy her brother is safe. I like that they spoke to Sienne though it was odd to watch her try to dance around the fact that she was saying there aren't a lot of romantic black role models for out there. Arie was more personable than he's been all season. No idea what that Caroline girl is but, um, okay. WTF was that whole "Glam shaming" thing? Other than a stupid waste of time? God, is this what the world is coming to? Anyone who says anything negative is "Shaming" something. So, am I Bachelor Shaming them all right now? Because, they really should be ashamed to be part of this franchise. I'm ashamed to be watching it. So I just audience shamed myself. When will the shaming end?

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, Stan39 said:

In other words, she was a producer plant and Arie was in on it. :(. That makes sense given that after her "heartfelt appeal" Arie barely acknowledges it and CH doesn't ask a follow up question. Lame

I wouldn't rule it out given how the show loves to manipulate the viewers but of course I can't say that for sure. 

[FamilyVan]

Quote

that glam shaming thing was the most ridiculous conversation ever. How old are these people? And if that's the thing they are fighting about, they have pretty nice lives.

The glam shaming thing was stupic.  I saw it like this: Girl #1 (I don't even know these people's names) observed that Girl #2 was quite out of her element hiking and roughing it, since she seemed to be kind of a diva and very concerned with touching up her appearance.  This sentiment seems to be an undisputed fact.  Girl #2 should have just owned it and said yeah I hate camping, I like being pretty, I am not exactly an REI person... but instead she took it all way too seriously with a rally cry raging against the invented-in-her-head Glam Shaming movement.

[JenE4]

4 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

WTF was that whole "Glam shaming" thing? Other than a stupid waste of time? God, is this what the world is coming to? Anyone who says anything negative is "Shaming" something. So, am I Bachelor Shaming them all right now? Because, they really should be ashamed to be part of this franchise. I'm ashamed to be watching it. So I just audience shamed myself. When will the shaming end?

If you’re shaming Mahrik for shaming Chelsea for shaming glamor, then that makes you a shame-shaming shamer...I guess? But i’m not shaming you about it because then I would be a shame-shame-shaming shamer. So, to answer your question of when the shaming ends, I suppose the shame-shaming loop could go on ad finitum unless all participants recognize their shame-shaming. There is probably some philosophical crisis of conscience theory or quantum physics paradoxical theorem to explain what would happen then, but beats me.

[Jazzhands]

24 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

So, am I Bachelor Shaming them all right now?

Yes, and I am right there with you!

[Artsda]

"Yes, but this is..the.. Bachelor." LOL I loved Arie saying that to Krystal.  He was awesome in how he handled her. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

13 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

And that was supposed to make it hurt less? Tia was only trying to do damage control because she knew how it would be perceived by viewers. She did it out of desperation and jealousy. She's been conning the viewers all along. 

Yes?  Tia said she's 22 and might not be ready for marriage.  Facts that Bekah has admitted to.  I still don't get the big deal.  I thought it was cool that Tia admitted it to Bekah's face right after.  Yes it's annoying and not great but it's a competition and Tia wanted to win.  And it's not like I like Tia at all.  I think Bekah's only proven her immaturity by her over the top reaction, not the opposite.

12 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

It's not tattling when the information is already known. She expressed her opinion and came off a little desperate. Big whoop. I don't see it being worth the level of outrage it's provoked.

They weren't even opinions; they turned out to be facts!  Bekah admitted it was all true.  Anyways I think they're both really disingenuous.  Did Bekah even want to win this?  I mean really?

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Plus all Bekah's criticisms of Krystal were ironic because they were the same things Bekah is glaringly guilty of.  Like, "Curating a presence,"  I wouldn't have known what that was if not for Bekah's season long demonstration.  

Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.

"I'm simple, no drama, and easy to please."  Who said that?  Krystal?  Tia?  No, it was Bekah, who spent the entire show curating a presence of I'm an easy 22 year old Marilyn Monroe, don't you want me , oh you can't truly have me, giggle giggle.  AGUUUHHHHH

[thesupremediva1]

12 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

They weren't even opinions; they turned out to be facts!  Bekah admitted it was all true.  Anyways I think they're both really disingenuous.  Did Bekah even want to win this?  I mean really?

 

Thank you! The biggest thing that I can't get over is that nothing Tia said disparaged Bekah's character. In fact she was nothing but complementary toward Bekah as a person, but you had to know that, at some point, one of the women who was serious about becoming Arie's wife (there are a few right-reasons ladies on every season) was going to speak up about the fact that she felt weird being in the same group as a 22-year-old who was open about her reluctance to commit to marriage and kids. And Bekah's phony whining about how her character was called into question and she wasn't seen for her true self really grates on my nerves. Actually, that's completely untrue! She was so open about her true self that people had to question why she was still there! ::facepalm::

If anyone could grasp nuance (big ask, I know), they'd recognize that Tia's conversation with Arie about Bekah was less about Bekah herself and more about Arie's intentions. The heart of Tia's concern was really, "Hey, Arie. You're 36. Are you looking for a wife or a cute girlfriend? I'd like to know before I bring you home to my parents." 

Edited February 26, 2018 by thesupremediva1

[Ms Blue Jay]

27 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

The glam shaming thing was stupic.  I saw it like this: Girl #1 (I don't even know these people's names) observed that Girl #2 was quite out of her element hiking and roughing it, since she seemed to be kind of a diva and very concerned with touching up her appearance.  This sentiment seems to be an undisputed fact.  Girl #2 should have just owned it and said yeah I hate camping, I like being pretty, I am not exactly an REI person... but instead she took it all way too seriously with a rally cry raging against the invented-in-her-head Glam Shaming movement.

I agree.  I hate camping, and I love hotels.  I have a secret desire to go on Survivor but I'd fully admit that I'm a total baby and I hate roughing it so it won't happen :(  If by some miracle I made it on the show I'd be the first to admit (to the camera) that I can barely swim blah blah.  Not, like, stop swim-shaming me.  

Edited February 26, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[MakeMeLaugh]

23 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

.... 

"I'm simple, no drama, and easy to please."  Who said that?  Krystal?  Tia?  No, it was Bekah, who spent the entire show curating a presence of I'm an easy 22 year old Marilyn Monroe, don't you want me , oh you can't truly have me, giggle giggle.  AGUUUHHHHH 

Bekah is the most immature 22 year old who’s ever been on my screen. She seemed more like a precocious 15. “I’m sorry I was born in 1995.” Give me a fucking break.

Edited February 26, 2018 by MakeMeLaugh

[Jax7917]

Bekah took the words out of my brain. These other girls are 23 and 24, but somehow 22 is where the line gets drawn? Give me a break.

[kingshearte]

I usually skip these, and I'll probably skip this one, but I think I'm going to have to go find the Arie-Krystal smackdown. That sounds far too satisfying to miss.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

So, am I Bachelor Shaming them all right now?

I think the correct term is "wrong reasons shaming." :)

[Tess23]

Sienne is breathtakingly beautiful.

I mentally tune out (after mocking him or her in my mind) whenever I hear someone use the word 'curated.' It doesn't make you sound cultured. You sound like a douche. Please.

Was pretty sure we were going to be treated to a shot of Tia's hoo-ha when she had her moment on the couch. Perhaps she should have practiced sitting on a chair at home before going on the show wearing that dress.

I kind of like Chelsea. Caroline needs to maybe up her meds a touch.

[thesupremediva1]

Bekah sold herself as the 22-year-old of the season. She posed the question to Arie as to whether he knew her age. She was likely cast expressly for her age, with the express purpose of exploiting it for drama.

The problem with Bekah is not that she's immature - it's that she's so in love with her own relatively high level of maturity that she thinks she can speak condescendingly to other woman, faux-analyze them, and council them on their own behavior. You might be able to get away with that with fellow 22-year-olds, but your older peers do not want to hear it.

Edited February 26, 2018 by thesupremediva1

[jumper sage]

53 minutes ago, Jazzhands said:

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

So, am I Bachelor Shaming them all right now?

Yes, and I am right there with you!

Save me a seat!

54 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yes?  Tia said she's 22 and might not be ready for marriage.

Since when has that ever been a reason not to "do" the Bachelor?  Please!  Most of the Bachelors aren't ready for marriage, Ben anyone?

Just now, thesupremediva1 said:

The problem with Bekah is not that she's immature - it's that she's so in love with her own relatively high level of maturity that she thinks she can speak condescendingly to other woman, faux-analyze them, and council them on their own behavior.

Just like a nanny with her charges and those charges have parents to don't watch what's going down.  Loved the whole marijuana farm.

I barely catch a scene each week as I can't do the whole 2 hour thing.  I always watch the WTA or MTA.  It's the best episode of the season.  Here is my question to all of you who are in the know - WHAT DID ARIE DO?  Update - just Googled that phrase and got my answer - OH MY!!!!!!!  Now they have my attention.

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, Tess23 said:

Was pretty sure we were going to be treated to a shot of Tia's hoo-ha when she had her moment on the couch. Perhaps she should have practiced sitting on a chair at home before going on the show wearing that dress.

I'm pretty sure Tia was wearing a romper. For the record, I think rompers rarely look attractive on grown women, and that one was no exception, but at least Tia wasn't going to have a wardrobe malfunction. There were a bunch of ugly outfits last night: the aforementioned romper, Bibiana's beige cutout dress that almost became a wardrobe malfunction, Lauren G's red lace bodysuit paired with gray dress pants, and even Seinne, who was a great dresser while on the show, wore that unflattering gray halter dress.

[fib]

1 hour ago, FamilyVan said:

The glam shaming thing was stupic.... Girl #2 should have just owned it and said yeah I hate camping, I like being pretty, I am not exactly an REI person... but instead she took it all way too seriously with a rally cry raging against the invented-in-her-head Glam Shaming movement.

Yes - it was. But if you barely get anytime with the lead and when you do, someone has said something that may hurt their impression of you? that's not super cool.  Marikh, though, could have said something like that to Chelsea instead of going on about glamshaming being a real thing. Marikh's unwillingness to move on looked super petty. 

1 hour ago, b2H said:

I felt Bekah had a really good point in her interview with CH.  Yes, she is 22.  But many other of the women were in the early 20s to mid-20s and no one made a big deal about their ages.  She was singled out.  Period.  And not for any really decent reason.  In many ways, (IMHO), she came off better than some of the older girls.

Bekah was singled out because -of the young women- SHE WAS THE ONLY ONE with a connection to Arie.  Maquel? nope. Olivia - left first night. Lauren B? Ok - she goes far, but she's 25 and seems to have no connection to anything let alone Arie. 

Caroline, though tough to remember, was actually a player this season.  I think she was easy to confuse with some of the other beautiful brunettes who were over shadowed by Krystal.  She was the girl who snuggled up to Tia in the hottub (after Krystal cozied up to Aire in front of them) on week 4 after the early finishers  completed their hike.  Krystal was super offended at the playful joke.  Then there was a confrontation in the evening part of the date.  The most memorable part of the confrontation though was Tia being burp-drunk.  Ultimately, because I do think that Caroline and Krystal's bumping heads was part of the main storyline, I'm fine with her being front and center at the WTA/Paradise-last-call-audition show. 

[reggiejax]

I am just glad Blecch-ah is being consigned to Paradise. The thought of her, with her sugar bowl haircut, and moon pie of a face, being The Bachelorette would just make me forsake this franchise completely.

Edited February 26, 2018 by reggiejax

[yorklee2]

Regarding the Tia vs Bekah debate I feel both sides have a logical argument. Do I think Bekah was honestly ready to marry Arie and settle down? No I don't. Her persona was somewhat of a paradox to me. On one hand she seemed very mature and articulate for her age on another it was painfully obvious just how young she really was and that she was in over her head. I think she went in with a, "this might be fun let's see what happens" attitude. Much like how I perceived Jenna for instance. Like most 22 yr olds who think they already know all there is to know about life a lot of her words and actions came across cocky and arrogant. But I never sensed any deliberate malice or vindictiveness towards the other women.

Do I think Tia was in love with Arie and wanted to marry him? No I don't. I might have at one time but I've since learned, admittingly by her own words, that she's had her eyes set on the big Bachelorette prize all along. That may not bother some or the actions she took to get there but desperation and under handiness have never looked good in my opinion. And regardless what some think of Bekah it was unnecessary for Tia to take a hit at her when as her (I think) genuine tears showed it honestly hurt her. And not so much that she was worried what Arie would think but that Tia would want to hurt her. It was almost like taking a hit at a kid because I think that's where her true immaturity really showed. That's when it was painfully obvious she was out of her league.

Edited February 26, 2018 by yorklee2

[sauce62]

I didn't mind Arie's "mers" in the bloopers. I actually found  them  kInd of endearing. He definitely showed a lot more wit and personality then the show's inane script allows.

As for Krystal, it looked like she had some work done on her eyes, they looked different to me. How she can live with herself after that performance is beyond me.

[Jazzhands]

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

 

Thank you! The biggest thing that I can't get over is that nothing Tia said disparaged Bekah's character. In fact she was nothing but complementary toward Bekah as a person, but you had to know that, at some point, one of the women who was serious about becoming Arie's wife (there are a few right-reasons ladies on every season) was going to speak up about the fact that she felt weird being in the same group as a 22-year-old who was open about her reluctance to commit to marriage and kids. And Bekah's phony whining about how her character was called into question and she wasn't seen for her true self really grates on my nerves. Actually, that's completely untrue! She was so open about her true self that people had to question why she was still there! ::facepalm::

If anyone could grasp nuance (big ask, I know), they'd recognize that Tia's conversation with Arie about Bekah was less about Bekah herself and more about Arie's intentions. The heart of Tia's concern was really, "Hey, Arie. You're 36. Are you looking for a wife or a cute girlfriend? I'd like to know before I bring you home to my parents." 

 

Then she should’ve just asked Arie that question directly about his intentions rather than making it about Bekah and pretending like she was doing it to “protect” Arie.  I’m not a fan of Bekah — I thought she came off as artificial, and her cutesy Betty Boop act worked my last nerve.  But I thought Tia came off far worse in this exchange.  If she’s mature enough to be married, then she should be mature enough to have a direct, adult conversation.  

Edited February 26, 2018 by Jazzhands
Damned autocorrect.

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, b2H said:

I felt Bekah had a really good point in her interview with CH.  Yes, she is 22.  But many other of the women were in the early 20s to mid-20s and no one made a big deal about their ages.  She was singled out.  Period.  And not for any really decent reason.  In many ways, (IMHO), she came off better than some of the older girls.

I think she was singled out for one reason only and it's as old as time. Jealousy. I'm sure they sensed and could see that Arie was really fond of her. 

[Mabinogia]

Quote

If anyone could grasp nuance (big ask, I know), they'd recognize that Tia's conversation with Arie about Bekah was less about Bekah herself and more about Arie's intentions. The heart of Tia's concern was really, "Hey, Arie. You're 36. Are you looking for a wife or a cute girlfriend? I'd like to know before I bring you home to my parents." 

I'm pretty sure the nuance was "I need to make it one more round to be in contention for Bachelorette so I've got to knock out one of these other bitches. Which one is the easiest target? I'll go with the young one. It will sound like I care about Arie and am serious about this process." Tia had no intention of being Arie's wife or fiancé or girlfriend. He's a means to the end she's been planning since Raven lost her spot.

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Bekah sold herself as the 22-year-old of the season. She posed the question to Arie as to whether he knew her age. She was likely cast expressly for her age, with the express purpose of exploiting it for drama.

The problem with Bekah is not that she's immature - it's that she's so in love with her own relatively high level of maturity that she thinks she can speak condescendingly to other woman, faux-analyze them, and council them on their own behavior. You might be able to get away with that with fellow 22-year-olds, but your older peers do not want to hear it.

But isn't that a form of immaturity in itself? A confident mature woman would have just laughed her off or schooled her in the right way. But I think they let jealousy overrule their common sense.

[thesupremediva1]

1 minute ago, yorklee2 said:

But isn't that a form of immaturity in itself? A confident mature woman would have just laughed her off or schooled her in the right way. But I think they let jealousy overrule their common sense.

Actually, very few of them chose to engage with her at all when she acted that way. They saw how fond Arie was of her and chose - wisely - to tread lightly. I don't think anyone was "jealous" of her. Tia very much felt threatened by her, which is why she had that conversation that went over so poorly. She should have let sleeping dogs lie and let that relationship naturally course-correct, but she chose to speak up because she knew it was do or die on the 2-on-1.

Bekah chose fairly easy targets, like Chelsea and Krystal. She wouldn't have stood a chance in a battle of wits with a woman like Seinne.

[ByTor]

11 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

1 hour ago, thesupremediva1 said:

You might be able to get away with that with fellow 22-year-olds, but your older peers do not want to hear it.

 

But isn't that a form of immaturity in itself? A confident mature woman would have just laughed her off or schooled her in the right way.

I think it's just the opposite.  The mature thing to do, IMO, would be to ignore her condescension.  Laughing at her or schooling her the right way would (again IMO) come across as childish.

[yorklee2]

3 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I think it's just the opposite.  The mature thing to do, IMO, would be to ignore her condescension.  Laughing at her or schooling her the right way would (again IMO) come across as childish.

I meant inwardly laugh her off. And maybe "school" her was the wrong word. But if her seemingly cocky words or actions were too much to bear I meant engage her in an adult reasonable way. That's certainly better than going behind her back to take a hit at her IMO.

[jade.black]

This was easily one of the most boring TWTA shows ever. I feel like 50% of it was just a recap of the season (with an inexplicable 5% dedicated to a movie wholly unrelated to the franchise). 

There were only a few things that made this worthwhile: Arie's total smackdown of Krystal, news that Bekah will definitively NOT be the next Bachelorette, Jacqueline looking drop dead gorgeous (I see they were auditioning Tia and Sienne but I was so hoping they'd give Jacqueline a shot up there), clips showing that Arie made sure not to waste the food provided on dates, and the hype for this finale. I'm totally unspoiled and am actually pretty excited. 

[nicgwatchingtv]

Just starting watching the episode. Boy did Marikh go down hill fast. From a little vain (but so what), to a humorless and petty harpy.

Was it Brittany saying that Glam shaming is not a thing. So right. Always liked her.

Edited February 26, 2018 by nicgwatchingtv

[backformore]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I'm pretty sure Tia was wearing a romper. For the record, I think rompers rarely look attractive on grown women, and that one was no exception, but at least Tia wasn't going to have a wardrobe malfunction. There were a bunch of ugly outfits last night: the aforementioned romper, Bibiana's beige cutout dress that almost became a wardrobe malfunction, Lauren G's red lace bodysuit paired with gray dress pants, and even Seinne, who was a great dresser while on the show, wore that unflattering gray halter dress.

I recall seeing an actress on a talk show explain how some dresses are standing dresses, and some are sitting dresses. Basically, the kind of dress that looks fabulous on the red carpet can either look dumpy and weird when you're sitting on a talk show, or can prohibit you from sitting.

[yorklee2]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Actually, very few of them chose to engage with her at all when she acted that way. They saw how fond Arie was of her and chose - wisely - to tread lightly. I don't think anyone was "jealous" of her. Tia very much felt threatened by her, which is why she had that conversation that went over so poorly. She should have let sleeping dogs lie and let that relationship naturally course-correct, but she chose to speak up because she knew it was do or die on the 2-on-1.

Bekah chose fairly easy targets, like Chelsea and Krystal. She wouldn't have stood a chance in a battle of wits with a woman like Seinne.

I agree Bekah very much would not far well against Seinne. Again out of her league.

Tia's feeling threatened by and being jealous of Bekah is kind of the same thing in this instance I think. Why did she feel threatened? Even if she wasn't jealous of Arie's feelings for Bekah she was of her perceived position going into hometowns IMO.

But as others have said I'm glad Bekah will not be Bachelorette. I don't think she's ready for that. BIP is a much better fit for her.

Edited February 27, 2018 by yorklee2