Figure Skating

[displayname]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

I was actually shocked that Mirai had the lowest PCS score last night with a technically challenging and clean performance.

I actually think the ladies were ranked correctly in terms of PCS. The absolute values have been utter bogus for a long time, so at least we can hope for the proper rankings.

[gatopretoNYC]

4 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Fantastic! Thanks for posting this. :)

[displayname]

19 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

If anything they chose Polina over Mirai.

That selection was completely right according to the rules. No one was chosen over anyone.

[Good Queen Jane]

31 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

As far as scoring goes, there appears to be the same issues as there are with gymnastics.  In Rio we all complained of the Chinese men turning in sloppy performances but still scoring 15 above because of high start values.  Now in figure skating everyone throws in jumps they can't complete but still get rewarded for.  I'm sorry but a fall is a fall, you haven't mastered a jump don't put it in your program.  A perfectly executed triple should not be ranked below a botched quad.  I'm not advocating playing it safe but I agree with those upthread that mistakes need to be further penalized.  Under rotate a quad and fall, get dinged not only as a fall but as a triple.  I remember skaters on the 6.0 system receiving nothing higher than a 5.5, usually less, if there was a fall.  I know it changed because the 6.0 system was more favorable to judge collusion but there is still scoring issues 16 years after Pairsgate so what have they really accomplished?

I like that idea. In a program that can consist of 100+ points (men's FS), a one point deduction is nothing.

That's already done. If it's under rotated, the base value is dropped to the lower jump. The problem is where the skater gets the proper rotation,  but hits the ice wrong on the landing and falls. They get the full base value of the quad, but gets a 1 point deduction for the fall and -3 GOEs on the jump. For example, Kolyada completed all four revolutions on his quad lutz but fell on the landing. His base score for the jump was 13.60 but with the negative GOES, his final score was 9.83. That's higher than the base score of any triple jump, including the triple axel. Even when you add in the one point deduction for the fall, it is more points than  doing an average triple. When the rules allow for -5 GOEs next year, that may help with the difference.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Good Queen Jane

[displayname]

1 minute ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That's already done. If it's under rotated, the base value is dropped to the lower jump. The problem is where the skater gets the proper rotation,  but hits the ice wrong on the landing and falls. They get the full base failure of the quad, but gets a 1 point deduction for the fall and -3 GOEs on the jump. For example, Kolyada completed all four revolutions on his quad lutz but fell on the landing. His base score for the jump was 13.60 but with the negative GOES, his final sore was 9.83. That's higher than the base score of any triple jump, including the triple axel. Even when you add in the one point deduction for the fall, it is more points than  doing an average triple. When the rules allow for -5 GOEs next year, that may help with the difference.

Falls on quads are -4 and an extra -1 for the fall itself. A flubbed quad lutz is at 9.60 - 1.

[HartofDixie]

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/how-watch-literally-all-figure-skating-during-2018-winter-olympics-pyeongchang

[stealinghome]

This is perhaps a stupid question, but why not just make it the case that if someone falls on the landing, they get no points for the jump whatsoever? It seems like enough men can hit at least one quad per routine now that to be competitive, men will still have to include quads in their programs—it’s not like the quad will suddenly be abandoned for all triples. But it would disincentive the “hope and pray” method that seems to prevail right now of just tossing a bunch of jumps you can’t land in for the points.

Because for real, it was soooooo nice to watch the majority of their women NOT fall on their asses while they skated. Like, I was like “oh yeah, this is what figure skating is supposed to look like!”

[ChicksDigScars]

Oh, god. That whole Pasha business. That puts a new spin on Virtue and Moir winning a second gold.  Anything to no longer have Pasha be the standard bearer. 

 

And LMAO at the video, and Pasha claiming that she was young and impressionable, and Sasha Zhulin took advantage of her.  Okaaaaaay. 

[HartofDixie]

23 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Oh no, it was the trashy Alexander Zhulin who gave Grishuk his wedding ring and Maya Usova had to have that rubbed in her face every time all four of them competed together--what a class act Zhulin and Grishuk were.  Remember when Grishuk dyed her hair blonde and she thought she was going to be a movie star?

I couldn't find the original link but The Skating Lesson included it in their Nationals recap.  FF to 2:06!

[displayname]

26 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

This is perhaps a stupid question, but why not just make it the case that if someone falls on the landing, they get no points for the jump whatsoever? It seems like enough men can hit at least one quad per routine now that to be competitive, men will still have to include quads in their programs—it’s not like the quad will suddenly be abandoned for all triples. But it would disincentive the “hope and pray” method that seems to prevail right now of just tossing a bunch of jumps you can’t land in for the points.

Because for real, it was soooooo nice to watch the majority of their women NOT fall on their asses while they skated. Like, I was like “oh yeah, this is what figure skating is supposed to look like!”

Because if you attempt harder jumps, it makes sense to reward you for trying. The risk is worth the reward. If there were zero points for falling, why would anyone attempt new quads, at all? Just perfect the triples, and attempt the quad toe.

Also consider this: Not all triple jumps are equal, either. Doing something properly means it should be rewarded more than something that has poor technique. 

[HartofDixie]

10 of the Biggest Figure Skating Controversies of All Time

[displayname]

[galaxygirl76]

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

Blerg!  I can't even see the name Grishuk without being overcome with the seething rage that was Lillehammer Ice dancing.  Never forget, Torville and Dean were robbed.

*Pulls up chair* I found my people!!

I'm still bitter about that and it has been 24 years. I wasn't happy that they repeated in Nagano either.

[herbz]

43 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

*Pulls up chair* I found my people!!

I'm still bitter about that and it has been 24 years. I wasn't happy that they repeated in Nagano either.

I hated their skating altogether, can I join the club?

[BitterApple]

42 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

*Pulls up chair* I found my people!!

I'm still bitter about that and it has been 24 years. I wasn't happy that they repeated in Nagano either.

I was a freshman in high school during Lillehammer and I remember my mother screaming at the tv when Torvill and Dean got screwed. 

[MaKaM]

18 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

So good to see Babs and Maurizio together again! I still remember this fondly:

 

I remember that Olympics for the death stare, the hideous, nearly-nekkid outfits, and the tragic hair--from Marie-France's shoe polish black, Barbara's strange red, and Tanith's zebra stripes, it was terrible at every corner of the globe.

[Tippi]

Mirai hitting that triple axel was a MOMENT.  How wonderful for her, after all the ups and downs and struggles, that she has the performance of her life at the Olympics.  That is exactly what makes the Olympics so special and gives you memories that you will hold forever.

Adam also did great.  I was a little worried about how Mirai and Adam would do, having seen a number of missed routines from them over the years.  They handled the pressure marvelously! 

Congrats to Team Canada.  He's not my fave of faves, but I am glad that Patrick got a gold medal.

[Growsonwalls]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

Never underestimate how crazy some people can be.  From my understanding, Tessa and Scott are not dating and never have been.  But some people seem so determined to see them together that they have invented this fantasy life for them, where they are secretly married unbeknownst to the public and have these secret babies that they keep out of the public eye.  Or something like that.

What I would really like to know is if people actually believe this or if they are just having fun and if it's some kind of fan fiction.

I think it's like three or four people on that blog who really believe that Scott and Tessa have like three babies stashed away in the basement. Actually, one of them according to the blogger would be around 6 years old now, so she's too big to be stashed away in the basement so apparently they're being "cared for by relatives"? Which of course doesn't explain why Tessa and Scott would ever not take care of their own children but hey ...

I do think it's weird though that Scott and Tessa repeatedly go for these "hot" programs when they've been skating competitively for so many years and would theoretically want to branch out. I mean I would be tired of making the same pretend googly eyes to my partner after 20 something years together but whatever floats their boat ...

As for Artur and Natalia, it does give me joy to see that he looks bloated, old and out of shape and 25 years after she was called "too fat" for him she is still gorgeous and has a beautiful talented daughter to boot. I also thought it was tactful of Natalia in the article to emphasize that when she goes back to Russia she sees her old coach Tamara Moskvina but not so much Artur. I did see an article with Tamara Moskvina where she said how much she admired Natalia for skating and persevering under some very difficult circumstances.

[Jillibean]

The bizarre thing about the Ashley drama is that it was pretty clear from her tweets that she wasn't at all faulting Zagitova. She specifically said, "You can't blame her," and pointed out that she was using the system to her advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason the Russians are making hay out of this is because they're worried about the ISU changing this rule in the future, which would get rid of one of the huge advantages their skaters have over the rest of the field. By discrediting Ashley and making her look petty, they can dismiss her legitimate remark as jealousy. However, I'd argue that by turning this into A Thing they have played right into Ashley's hands. 

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

I didn't watch the NBC feed but I'd bet someone mentioned the backloaded program and expressed that they weren't fans there too. 

Well, it's Johnny Weir, so he mostly talked about what an amazing and difficult achievement it is for Zagitova to be able to do it. 

sweeks, thank you for posting that video. It's great to see the Canadians get excited for Mirai. I'm glad that everyone is treating her momentous occasion as a momentous occasion. 

Quote

I don't get the Shibutanis.  Technically they're very good, but even though that program was better than the short and an improvement from the Nationals, it was just 'eh' to me.  I never seen any feeling for the music from them and little personality when they skate.  For me, they're just there, nothing special.  Although I'll admit to being impressed by their Twizzles.

I like the Shibs. That said, I found myself wondering last night what Alex might have been able to do, affect-wise, with a different partner. Maia is lovely, but she seems very calm, at peace, and mild, both on and off the ice. Alex seems like much more of a natural ham, which could have potentially translated into the sort of melodramatic pining that seems to be well rewarded in ice dance, assuming you're not skating with your sister.  

Quote

What I would really like to know is if people actually believe this or if they are just having fun and if it's some kind of fan fiction.

What's truly frightening is that the person who writes the blog, supposedly this huge V/M fan, seems legitimately angry at them for perpetuating this fraud. It's not an attitude of "they are so in love and have a secret baby, how cute!" but rather one of "They are in love and have a secret baby and they are lying to everyone and there is a giant conspiracy involved, HOW DARE THEY." 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Jillibean

[Minneapple]

2 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

The bizarre thing about the Ashley drama is that it was pretty clear from her tweets that she wasn't at all faulting Zagitova. She specifically said, "You can't blame her," and pointed out that she was using the system to her advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if the real reason the Russians are making hay out of this is because they're worried about the ISU changing this rule in the future, which would get rid of one of the huge advantages their skaters have over the rest of the field. By discrediting Ashley and making her look petty, they can dismiss her legitimate remark as jealousy. However, I'd argue that by turning this into A Thing they have played right into Ashley's hands. 

This is true. The Russians could have just ignored Ashley, but they had to blow it up into Big Internet Drama, which is always fun. Now everyone is talking about it. And maybe the skating federations will take notice. Maybe this is a Thing That Needs To Be Fixed!

And it's true, you can't blame Zagitova. She followed the rules fair and square. And her coaches are very smart for choreographing a routine that will play to the judging elements. But I still think she's completely robotic. Like someone programmed her. Spiral, sit spin, camel spin, layback, jump wave arms skate, jump wave arms skate, jump wave arms skate, jump wave arms skate (anybody see the creepy robot dogs opening the door today? LIKE THAT. Sometimes I love the Internet). I think Medvedeva is less robotic but she annoys me for no reason more than Zagitova (plus Alina is my daughter's name, so there's that). If I had to choose I'd go with Zagitova. If I REALLY had to choose, both of them would fall and Mirai would get on the podium. 

Regarding Ashley. Would the US have finished higher in the team event -- i.e. silver, had they chosen her over Bradie? Bradie is new, and as we all know in figure skating, the rule is that if you're new and not an Olympic Athlete From Russia, you won't get scored very high. Ashley may have placed higher than Bradie in the ladies' event. Not sure if that would have made a difference though. 

[stealinghome]

Because if you attempt harder jumps, it makes sense to reward you for trying. The risk is worth the reward. If there were zero points for falling, why would anyone attempt new quads, at all? Just perfect the triples, and attempt the quad toe.

Also consider this: Not all triple jumps are equal, either. Doing something properly means it should be rewarded more than something that has poor technique.

Oh, I’m not suggesting that figure skating give up the practice of scoring technique. Proper technique SHOULD be rewarded over improper technique. But equally, it’s crazy to me that someone could fill their program with quads, fall on just about all of them, and still be competitive with someone who skates a clean program of triples. At some point, being able to actually complete the elements and not fall on your ass HAS to matter, at least more than it seems to now. *shrug* Maybe the next update will include a greater deduction for falling and clean it up.

re: why anyone would try something harder/different, there will always be an innovator to raise the bar. That has pretty much always happened naturally throughout sports history. As long as those who can actually pull off harder moves will be rewarded—as successful completion of quads are—no sport will ever stagnate.

[kittykat]

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That's already done. If it's under rotated, the base value is dropped to the lower jump. The problem is where the skater gets the proper rotation,  but hits the ice wrong on the landing and falls. They get the full base value of the quad, but gets a 1 point deduction for the fall and -3 GOEs on the jump. For example, Kolyada completed all four revolutions on his quad lutz but fell on the landing. His base score for the jump was 13.60 but with the negative GOES, his final score was 9.83. That's higher than the base score of any triple jump, including the triple axel. Even when you add in the one point deduction for the fall, it is more points than  doing an average triple. When the rules allow for -5 GOEs next year, that may help with the difference.

Agreed.  I have little to no knowledge about the new scoring criteria so this clarifies things for me.

[MaKaM]

I am with those that think that cumulative/increasing penalties for falls might be the way to go. -1 point for the first, -3 for the second, -6 for the third, etc. That way, there is some benefit in taking a risk or two but if you truly haven't mastered the skill, you will get docked for it. That way the spectators don't have to watch a splatfest walk away with a win while an otherwise sublime athlete can still take a risk or two and not be destroyed.

Edited February 13, 2018 by MaKaM

[AshleyN]

9 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

There are multiple rule changes which are scheduled to go into effect next season. The base value of quads are going to be reduced, the GOEs will be from +5 to -5, the number of jump passes will be reduced, increased deductions for multiple falls, and Men's and Pairs long programs will be reduced to 4 minutes (because the President of the ISU thinks the competitions go on too long), No change to the bonus period but the ISU will meet this summer and I'm sure that it will be discussed.

I find these whole conversation interesting because I remember after Vancouver, where Evan Lysacek won gold without even attempting a quad, there was a lot of talk the other way: that the sport was regressing and that there wasn't enough incentive for skaters to attempt the more difficult jumps. Now the pendulum seems to have swung all the way in the other direction*. I get that it's a difficult balance to hit but I like the idea of increasing the GOE range, which should really play up the high risk/high reward nature of the jumps. Because in order for the sport to progress there does need to be some incentive for skaters to take risks, but the whole idea of going out there and attempting jumps that you know you're going to fall on just to get the rotations is silly, and makes the sport look silly.

*On a semi-related note, as someone who kind of drifts in and out of skating fandom and hasn't payed close attention the last couple of years, when did quad lutzes become, like, a normal thing? Because that was kind of shocking to me.

Edited February 13, 2018 by AshleyN

[Growsonwalls]

Hmm I think the bigger issue is that this generation of skaters doesn't have a real Quadmaster. Whether you liked them or not Alexei Yagudin and Evgeny Plushenko (as well as Elvis Stojko, Tim Goebbel, and when he was young Ilia Kulik) were Quad Masters. When they did a quad, there was very little doubt about whether they'd land them. I can't think of a single male skater with their consistency today. So what we have is a lot of skaters who CAN skate lights out with all these quads in the program. Or they can spend the entire program splatting. 

While we're at it what happened to the triple axel masters? The triple axel is a jump that literally has been a requirement for men for about 30 years and yet men are splatting all over the place on the triple axel. 

[displayname]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

While we're at it what happened to the triple axel masters? The triple axel is a jump that literally has been a requirement for men for about 30 years and yet men are splatting all over the place on the triple axel. 

Yuzuru Hanyu. Shoma Uno. Boyang Jin. Han Yan.

[specialj67]

50 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

 

Regarding Ashley. Would the US have finished higher in the team event -- i.e. silver, had they chosen her over Bradie? Bradie is new, and as we all know in figure skating, the rule is that if you're new and not an Olympic Athlete From Russia, you won't get scored very high. Ashley may have placed higher than Bradie in the ladies' event. Not sure if that would have made a difference though. 

I wouldn’t think so. Even if Ashley was scoring at Worlds ‘16 level, she’d still have placed third in this field of competitors. 2 more points for the US in the standings, but still 2 points behind the OAR team.  Her typical SP scores the past couple of seasons, excluding nationals because those are inflated for many skaters, generally no better than what Bradie did here. 

[cesstar]

On 13/02/2018 at 4:38 AM, blackwing said:

What I was pointing out is that she seems to be commenting just to get attention for herself.  Just like her comments about Mirai, she made it clear to let everyone know was "filming" so didn't actually see it.  She used Mirai's success as a way to promote herself.

I see what you're saying but I think there is also a possibility that she was trying to placate those people who wanted to know why she hadn't tweeted about it 'live'. Some of these twitter fans can be pretty crazy - Gracie Gold had to say the other day that the reason she wasn't live tweeting the skating was because she was seeing her dad for the first time in months! The fact that she felt the need to justify why she wasn't watching live/providing support is indicative I think of the tightrope the skaters feel they need to navigate to keep fans happy.

Edited February 15, 2018 by cesstar
Because years and months are not the same thing

[Enero]

9 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

While we're at it what happened to the triple axel masters? The triple axel is a jump that literally has been a requirement for men for about 30 years and yet men are splatting all over the place on the triple axel. 

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to remember someone (Scott Hamilton perhaps?) saying that the Quad can screw up the timing on the Triple Axel? If not that, these guys probably spend so much time focused on the Quads that the Axel falls by the way. 

Back in the day the men could land it all. As stated, love em or hate um, Plushy, Yaugudin, Stoyko, etc., could land the 3Axel and the Quad/s in their programs. Not sure what’s up with the current generation. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Enero

[HartofDixie]

[Growsonwalls]

Ok here are some Olympic programs where the men managed to do solid quads and triple axels. This is not a new thing at all.

20 years ago, it was being done:

 

16 years ago, it was also being done by three different men:

 

 

[chitowngirl]

How do you think Davis/White’s Scheherazade compares to this Olympics Virtue/Moir? I was mesmerized by Davis/White and while I appreciate how much better Virtue/Moir are this Olympics, I don’t think it is still as good.

[Avaleigh]

4 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

I am with those that think that cumulative/increasing penalties for falls might be the way to go. 1 point for the first, 3 for the second, 6 for the third, etc. That way, there is some benefit in taking a risk or two but if you truly haven't mastered the skill, you will get docked for it.

I agree with most of this only I feel like a skater should lose at least two points for a fall, maybe even three. Then four for two falls, six for three, etc. One point is not enough. Falls used to be a big deal and Evgenia and Alina could both fall and they would still both land on the podium. They could probably fall twice and still make it happen mathematically. 

Didn't Yuzuru fall twice in the long at Sochi? 

The 6.0 system wasn't perfect by any means. Far from it, but there are huge, HUGE problems with the COP and there's been over a decade to work out the kinks. 

So many of the things that were fun and beautiful about skating are considered unimportant or have vanished completely. Laybacks without a bielmann attached. (Not everyone looks good doing one.) Spiral sequences. Yes, I know the reasons for getting rid of the spiral sequence in the short and I still feel they were bullshit, short sighted reasons when I think of the skaters who did do them well and what a pleasure it was to see them well done. Split jumps and the falling leaf. 

Another complaint I have is the misuse and abuse of illusions--again, not everyone does this well. 

A well balanced program should be a given in this sport. The backloading should never have been allowed. Same with front loading. It's sad that we need more rules to point out what should already be obvious. 

I actually like Rippons and tanos on jumps (when they're well done) but they should be limited to one or two per program. Maybe allow one of each. If a person is incapable of making the arm position attractive then they should be penalized for it via PC. Someone like Sotskova should refrain. People like Adam and Alina do it well so I think once or twice in a program is fine. I remember seeing Gabrielle do a Rippon last year and thought it looked great. Plus on her it was a surprise unlike with Evgenia. 

[Minneapple]

7 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

How do you think Davis/White’s Scheherazade compares to this Olympics Virtue/Moir? I was mesmerized by Davis/White and while I appreciate how much better Virtue/Moir are this Olympics, I don’t think it is still as good.

I actually think Davis/White's Bollywood in 2010 was a better program than Scheherezade. Bollywood was so fun, charming, well-done and respectful of the culture (and I'm Indian). And it was different. I thought they should have beaten Virtue/Moir with the Bollywood program, but no way was anyone beating Virtue/Moir in freaking Canada that year.  

And, since there is no skating tonight, I am off to watch the Davis/White program. I will see you all in about four hours as that means I will be going down the YouTube rabbit hole of different skating programs. MICHELLE KWAN, HERE I COME.

[displayname]

18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Ok here are some Olympic programs where the men managed to do solid quads and triple axels. This is not a new thing at all.

20 years ago, it was being done:

 

 

16 years ago, it was also being done by three different men:

 

 

 

 

 

OK, apart from Nathan (who bombed) and Shoma (who didn't), we didn't see any of the top competitors in this competition. 

 

These guys can't even think of doing the level of difficulty that is being shown today. Just wait for the individual event. Actually, here's last year's worlds:

[annzeepark914]

23 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I actually think Davis/White's Bollywood in 2010 was a better program than Scheherezade. Bollywood was so fun, charming, well-done and respectful of the culture (and I'm Indian). And it was different. I thought they should have beaten Virtue/Moir with the Bollywood program, but no way was anyone beating Virtue/Moir in freaking Canada that year.  

And, since there is no skating tonight, I am off to watch the Davis/White program. I will see you all in about four hours as that means I will be going down the YouTube rabbit hole of different skating programs. MICHELLE KWAN, HERE I COME.

Loved your post, MINNEAPPLE!!  I, too, have saved Bollywood and still consider it one of THE best ice dance programs ever.  Davis & White really did their research into this (even hiring an Indian dance instructor).  Well, it's been nice knowin' ya now that you're going down the ol' YouTube rabbit hole of wonderful skating programs (yup, been there, done that).  I even have that Weaver/Poje SD in which they looked almost like Ginger Rogers & Fred Astaire in their formal wear gliding across the ice.  And little Michelle skating Salome?  I better stop now or I'll go to YT & be there all night!

[Growsonwalls]

Hmm as it happens I watched Brian Boitano's 1988 Calgary LP. I think it's important to remember that the men's discipline in figure skating has ALWAYS been a rather harshly judged discipline with emphasis on jumps. Scott Hamilton was really an aberration in that he was better in figures than jumps but 30 years ago in order to be competitive for the gold medal you had to have a triple axel.

I'll admit my enjoyment of Davis/White was always colored by the fact that I found Meryl Davis frighteningly, disturbingly thin during their whole career.  I know weight is a tricky subject but their 2014 Sochi program had Meryl in a lot of illusion fabric and when you could see THAT much bone ...

Edited February 13, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Enero]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Ok here are some Olympic programs where the men managed to do solid quads and triple axels. This is not a new thing at all.

20 years ago, it was being done:

 

16 years ago, it was also being done by three different men:

 

 

Plushy’s program kind of fell apart at the end, but damn, that Quad combination was needless to say impressive, and then the Triple Axel/half loop/Triple Flip combo was pretty amazing too.  

Edited February 13, 2018 by Enero

[herbz]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

How do you think Davis/White’s Scheherazade compares to this Olympics Virtue/Moir? I was mesmerized by Davis/White and while I appreciate how much better Virtue/Moir are this Olympics, I don’t think it is still as good.

Everyone responds emotionally to different things, so artistically it's whatever speaks to you, but in terms of technical ability, 2018 V/M would crush 2014 D/W. Tessa extends through her knees and feet so much better than Meryl. Scott has more control over his edges than Charlie. D/W gained a lot of their speed through hopping across the ice, and V/M were lacking a little in power in Sochi. But they've gained it in their comeback (think they've both gained muscle), and they really speed up properly through glide and deep knee bends. Their athleticism is more on a par now too- Tessa's Arabian flip entry into the Carmen lift is much less dicey than it was when they first introduced it. V/M have also (mostly) sorted out their twizzle issues, which they messed up so often in the 2009-14 years while D/W never did. V/M always had better step sequences.

Long story short- Scheherazade was a great program well suited to D/W's abilities. I rewatch it often. V/M's Moulin Rouge is skated better and would almost certainly win in a competitive match up. Up to you whatever you just prefer watching! 

Edited February 13, 2018 by herbz

[zorak]

12 hours ago, AAEBoiler said:

Going shallow here but Canadian skater Patrick Chan really has that "crazy eyes" thing going. He's freaking me out!

I feel vindicated now.  I was remarking to my husband last night that there is something weird going on with his eyes.  I can’t quite decide what it is.  Is he slightly cross eyed?

[caracas1914]

I don’t see the big deal, you limit the number of the same triples/quads  a skater can do (once as a single and once in combination) so I don’t see why you couldn’t limit a Tano or Rippon to say 2 jumps in a program.   Ditto on backloading, make it a maximum of say 4 jumps you can do in the bonus time.

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I actually think Davis/White's Bollywood in 2010 was a better program than Scheherezade. Bollywood was so fun, charming, well-done and respectful of the culture (and I'm Indian). And it was different. I thought they should have beaten Virtue/Moir with the Bollywood program, but no way was anyone beating Virtue/Moir in freaking Canada that year.  

And, since there is no skating tonight, I am off to watch the Davis/White program. I will see you all in about four hours as that means I will be going down the YouTube rabbit hole of different skating programs. MICHELLE KWAN, HERE I COME.

Don't forget my favorite Olympic program ever:

 

[mehtotheworld]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I actually think Davis/White's Bollywood in 2010 was a better program than Scheherezade. Bollywood was so fun, charming, well-done and respectful of the culture (and I'm Indian). And it was different. I thought they should have beaten Virtue/Moir with the Bollywood program, but no way was anyone beating Virtue/Moir in freaking Canada that year.  

And, since there is no skating tonight, I am off to watch the Davis/White program. I will see you all in about four hours as that means I will be going down the YouTube rabbit hole of different skating programs. MICHELLE KWAN, HERE I COME.

Ooh. Bollywood is such a fun program! I confess I still go back and watch their Polovtsian Dances ('07) often, along with their Samson and Delilah ('09). Neither one is as technically sound as their later years, but I find them so compelling. It's especially hilarious to me watching Domnina/Shabalin's Polovtsian Dances from the same year to see how "subtle" D/W are compared to their Russian level crazy.

[herbz]

Samson and Delilah is probably my favourite D/W program too (along with their Giselle polka short). I just felt they really loved it and that came through.

Both D/W and V/M have some really underrated programs from their junior/early senior years actually, programs that I think that some teams in the top 10 now would struggle to pull off. It was clear really early on that those two teams were going to be very very good.

Edited February 13, 2018 by herbz

[displayname]

13 minutes ago, zorak said:

there is something weird going on with his eyes.  I can’t quite decide what it is.  Is he slightly cross eyed?

He wants the world to be more deferential to him.

[P2C2E]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

Don't forget my favorite Olympic program ever:

 

 

Oh my god, just the still of this video sent me back to the past! I used to be so obsessed with skating! 

Sigh. I remember taping and going frame by frame to understand how each jump was different from the others.

[Growsonwalls]

While we're talking about triple axels here's someone who mastered the triple axel:

[chitowngirl]

12 minutes ago, P2C2E said:

Sigh. I remember taping and going frame by frame to understand how each jump was different from the others.

On this evening’s Olympic Ice, Scott Hamilton gave a pretty good description of jumps. It was mostly about the axel and triple axel and why it’s so difficult, but he does a quick foot description of the foot positions of the takeoff of all the jumps.

[healthnut]

 Since we are sharing videos on our off night, check out this Japanese phenom who does a triple axel/triple toe combination!

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I wonder if Nathan feels bad that the rest of his teammates pulled their weight while he bombed out. He seems kind of morose every time the camera cuts to him in the viewing area.

Yes, he feels bad.  I know that feeling of letting the group down (over an individual's results) is part of many Asian cultures.  As the great Japanese gymnast Kohei Uchimura said, he would trade in his World Titles if it would mean the Japanese team would win the Olympic gold medal (and they did in Rio).  

I think this feeling--especially since he was the ONLY US skater who bombed but is also the most heavily promoted US skater--is a huge wakeup call for him and his need for redemption will totally overcome any nevers.  I now predict he will win the men's event.