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Figure Skating

Athena

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Mittengirl
Mittengirl

I cannot believe that there are some journalists who are suggesting that US Figure Skating needs to be more like US Gymnastics in the training of young athletes.  The very idea is so - I don’t even kn

herbz
herbz

The Nassar situation isn't another discussion- Karolyi's methods and reign of intimidation directly created a world in which young girls pushed through injuries which sometimes permanently crippled th

Growsonwalls
Growsonwalls

Wow I feel bad for both girls.  There's Med, crying because at the ripe old age of 18 she's gotten dumped for the New Shiny Thing, and then there's New Shiny Thing, all of a sudden looking so childlik

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

It's going to be interesting to see how the powers that be maneuver team skaters around (taking turns doing SP; LP, SD, FD).  In a way I like having the team event first because, selfishly, I get to watch twice the figure skating during the O's.  But I am concerned about any "contenders" getting injured before the Big Event.

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AuntieDiane6

AuntieDiane6

Recently watched the former Olympic skating competitions on NBC's Olympic Channel.  Big difference:  THE COMMENTATORS LET US HEAR THE MUSIC!!  Shut up, Terry.  I really like you as a host, but hate that the SECOND there's a change in music you get out your index cards of INANE QUESTIONS. Let us hear the music!!  In past Olympics, commentators actually SHUT UP.  Talk during the analysis and slo-mo.  Let us SEE AND HEAR the performances.  

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Souris

Souris

Yay yay yay! The Olympics forum! That time of year when I come alive and pay attention to little else.

I really really really hope Mirai lands a clean triple Axel in the Olympics. And I hope Nathan Chen has the type of killer skate he's capable of.

Do we know yet which Russian skaters will skate as unaffiliated?

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ChicksDigScars

ChicksDigScars

(edited)

The U.S. should have an interesting problem picking the team representatives. You can only "split" the duties in two of the four disciplines, right? Well, the pairs is easy. We only have one pair there, so the Knerims do both.  Then what?

Ice Dance will SUCK for someone. H/D just won Nationals, but the Shibs medaled at the Grand Prix Final and the last two World's.  Plus, both the Shibs and Chock and Bates missed out on the team event in Sochi because Meryl and Charlie did both. With all three teams basically being even, what do you do?  I'd like to see them go by pure scoring. The Shib's short dance has been the consistent higher scoring SD this year, so have them do the short. Chock and Bates have had the higher scoring Free Dance in the GP Final and Nationals.  Have them skate the Free Dance.  Sorry, H/D.  

That means that a man or woman has to do both. Ugh. I'd like to see Adam do the short and Nathan do the long, but that would mean that they can't split the ladies between Mirai and Bradie. Mirai deserves the shot at a medal. Damn. Tough choice. Nathan for both and split the women? 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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Jeddah

Jeddah

I think US Figure Skating would love to have Nathan do both because he would definitely place higher than Adam or Vincent. I bet they’ll let him decide if he wants to do both, and he might not want to. I really want Mirai to be in the team event, and I sort of feel like US Figure Skating owes her that. I am a big fan of the Shibutanis, so I’d like it if they did both segments. There are so many different combos of how the team could be made up. I wonder when they make that decision.

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AuntieDiane6

AuntieDiane6

Quote

They'll likely switch off with men and ladies singles. Nathan-SP, Adam-LP and Mirai-SP, Bradie-LP. Shibs and the pairs team do both. Nathan doesn't need to be taxed with back-to-back programs and possible injury when he has a good medal shot. The ladies have no shot at any individual medals judging by the current European championships (holy PCS inflation!) so you might as well spread the medal love.

I think you're correct, Posh ... Nathan will get a chance to compete before an Olympic audience and judges and get the kinks out before his event. No way would they risk having him do both.

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MaKaM

MaKaM

Why switch the Ladies off? Just have Mirai do both, save Bradie for the main event, say you were going with maturity. Mirai isn't likely to beat the Canadians, the Russians (if they are there), or the Japanese contender. Bradie isn't likely to beat them either, so it doesn't seem to matter which you use. I'd split Ice Dance and Men's.

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healthnut

healthnut

If they don’t split the women, it would be Bradie, no way they use Mirai for both. It would be nice to split the dance teams but they are scored so similarly in the free dance it really doesn’t make sense to use two teams and the Shibs have the superior short dance. 

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tearbender

tearbender

With the dance teams so close, I really don't think it makes sense for the Shibutanis to do both. It's great for them, personally, but it definitely screws the other two dance teams at a nearly guaranteed medal. I think another team should do the Free Dance. 

I think it all mostly depends on what Nathan wants to do. I think pragmatically it's good for Bradie to skate twice in the team event, but then Mirai loses out on a medal, and NBC misses a feel good comeback story.

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surreysmum

surreysmum

Brought over from the other figure skating thread: Stolbova (/Klimov) and (Stepanova)/Bukin barred from Olympics:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-olympics-2018-russia-doping-skaters/figure-skating-two-russians-barred-from-olympics-hockey-players-also-excluded-idUSKBN1FC1BJ

Russian response as might be predicted.

Implications for podiums? No real change in dance, I would think, but quite possibly pairs (and presumably team event) will be affected, given that S/K were silver at Sochi.

Assuming, of course, that the Russian Fig Skating fed & Olympic committee don't manage to arm-twist a reversal of the decision.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

21 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Is there an appeal process?  They were just at Europeans what if they can prove they are clean now?  Surprised to hear about Bukin though.

The sanctions are meant to punish those who cheated in the past, therefore, it shouldn't matter if they're drug-free now.

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MostlyC

MostlyC

If it were up to me, the Russians would not be able to compete in the Team Event. How can they be a team when your country has been (officially) banned from the olympics.

It is pretty clear that many, many people dope, both in ice skating and other sports from all countries.  I think the IOC needs to be stricter, but I am guessing many backroom deals are made.  I need to watch Icarus....

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galaxygirl76

galaxygirl76

21 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Is there an appeal process?  They were just at Europeans what if they can prove they are clean now?  Surprised to hear about Bukin though.

From what I read about the speed skaters they can appeal but it won't make a difference.

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Enero

Enero

18 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

NBC is showing the figure skating live, but it will be chopped up with skiing during the primetime show.  Any way to see it streaming?  I can't see where NBC would allow it to run against the Primetime show.

During the 2014 Olympics they streamed all the sports live on their NBC Olympics app. I’m not sure if they’re offering that this time around, but it was great. 

They of course streamed all the skaters, even those who had no chance of even making it in the top ten much less winning a medal. So you got the full experience. Since the event was in Sochi which was hours ahead of my location I had to stream while working. 

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healthnut

healthnut

17 hours ago, Jeddah said:

This is an unpopular opinion, but I thought Berezhnaya and Sikharudlize deserved gold!

Not sure that's really an unpopular opinion. I so wish CoP was in effect then so B&S wouldn't have had to share gold. But then again, if it wasn't for the controversy, there probably isn't a CoP.

23 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

NBC is showing the figure skating live, but it will be chopped up with skiing during the primetime show.  Any way to see it streaming?  I can't see where NBC would allow it to run against the Primetime show.

They have partnered with Hulu Live and you are supposed to be able to personalize your experience so you could watch all figure skating. I don't use Hulu Live but my antenna won't get NBC so I plan to subscribe for a month so I can watch the Olympics.

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Jeddah

Jeddah

17 minutes ago, healthnut said:

Not sure that's really an unpopular opinion. I so wish CoP was in effect then so B&S wouldn't have had to share gold. But then again, if it wasn't for the controversy, there probably isn't a CoP.

That’s true. At the time it seemed like a very unpopular opinion based on the way NBC freaked out. Now I realize it wasn’t as one-sided as they made it seem.

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AuntieDiane6

AuntieDiane6

Quote

Does this mean I am forced to subscribe to Hulu now????

Most likely, yes.  HOWEVER, the Hulu Live option is $39.99 a month and requires 1) that you live in an area where it is available  2)  if you have Apple TV, you need to have at least a Generation 4  3) OR you need a Samsung SmartTV.  Good luck figuring out all that by next week.

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

Someone needs to speak up for Sale/Pelletier so let it be me (now I'll have that song running through my head all day!)  Even Natalia Mishkutenok thought S/P deserved the gold and she's more of an expert on pairs skating than I.  In a way I'm glad they changed the scoring system but then they've turned so many skaters into counting machines and backloaders.

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Libby96

Libby96

I really hope the Shibs get to skate at least part of the team competition.  They are my favorites and I want to see them get a medal.  I guess an individual medal isn't out of the question as well, but it will be a tough fight.

I have no problem with clean athletes from Russia being able to compete in pairs, dance and the individual disciplines, but letting them band together as a team without a country (but really as Russia as their country) seems hinky to me.  Will there be short track speedskating relays of OARs?  A hockey team of OARs?

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HartofDixie

HartofDixie

7 hours ago, Libby96 said:

I really hope the Shibs get to skate at least part of the team competition.  They are my favorites and I want to see them get a medal.  I guess an individual medal isn't out of the question as well, but it will be a tough fight.

out of our 3 dance teams I think the Shibs have the strongest body of work and if that’s the case I believe they will choose to skate both parts. Nathan will do the short and I think Adam will get the long. Problem now is the ladies - is Bradie still top 2 when you compare all 3?

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herbz

herbz

(edited)

I'd give the Shibs the short and H/D the long. Sucks for C/B, but with all three teams so close the US federation needs to chuck their weight behind someone and H/D are a more realistic individual medal prospect both now and in the future. It all depends on what Nathan wants really seeing as you can only split 2 disciplines. I'm not sure how much it'll matter what the ladies do- I don't know how well Bradie will be received and consistency is an issue with the others. 

I've got such a rant about ice dance judging brewing. I left the sport a while ago now and my irl circle think GOE and PCS are government departments and I need to vent! 

OAR shouldn't be allowed to compete in the team event. It makes a mockery of the sanctions.

Edited by herbz
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BelleBrit

BelleBrit

(edited)

I could see Nathan being the type to want to skate both programs in the team event, and they should probably give him what he wants.  However, since he's the golden goose, the fed also needs to monitor him/bubble wrap him, and be prepared to overrule/pull him at the last minute for Adam to skate one of the programs.  

I still think that they will split the ladies, and have Bradie do the short, and Mirai do the long.  Bradie's consistency will help the team qualify, and while Mirai has had consistency issues, her longs this season have been a big step up from prior seasons (with or without the triple axel), she tends to peak in February, and you risk losing less points in the long than you would by putting her in the short.  And while Bradie has been very consistent this season, she has also struggled with injuries at the later half of the last two seasons.  However, depending on what happens with Nathan, they could also pull Mirai and have Bradie skate both programs. 

For ice dance, I think that they could justify having the Shibs skate both programs, but I also feel like as national champions, H/D should get to participate. I don't see C/B being in the equation for the team event.  The cynical part of me sees Nathan, The Shibs, Adam, and Mirai getting the most pre-Olympics press and wondering if that will play a factor too. 

Edited by BelleBrit
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herbz

herbz

(edited)

There were vague murmurings that the Shibs were lobbying very hard indeed to skate both in the team event...

Papadakis and Cizeron have just confirmed the obvious that they're doing the team (though France is unlikely to make it so they dance the free). Virtue/Moir are of course doing both to maximise Canada's chances. If S/S want to position themselves as the likely medalists from the US, they don't want H/D anywhere near that event and risk losing ground and further diluting the spotlight. But H/D earned it at Nationals. It's a tough one. I'd be inclined to gently suggest to Nathan that he only skate the short and rest him as well- his programs are exhausting. 

Edited by herbz
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herbz

herbz

And speaking of the Sale/Pelletier debacle upthread, it is unfathomable to me that Didier Gailhaguet is still allowed to be involved in this sport in any capacity, let alone as President of the French Fed. 

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herbz

herbz

(edited)
1 hour ago, PoshSprinkles said:

The IOC should have just made their ban an outright BAN and told Russia no one was allowed to compete under any circumstance, end of story, case closed, try again in 2022.

By doing it piecemeal they are making everything so much more complicated and messy than it needs to be. 

Every day the athlete count allowed to compete creeps up and I've (reluctantly, because there are several Russian skaters I love and I do feel for the clean athletes in all this) come to this conclusion too. 

Edited by herbz
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MaKaM

MaKaM

3 hours ago, herbz said:

And speaking of the Sale/Pelletier debacle upthread, it is unfathomable to me that Didier Gailhaguet is still allowed to be involved in this sport in any capacity, let alone as President of the French Fed. 

And the Russian crime boss bribing the judges was running an illegal gambling ring in Trump Tower--if you wrote this sh*t as a movie script, it would be kicked back due to unbelievably.

I'm still kinda bitter about 2014 Ladies competition, so I don't know how much I will watch. I am also still real unconvinced with the PCS scores, their fairness, their application across the field, and really think the whole system needs another overhaul. But, I hope Mirai gets a shot at the team and can land her 3A for some redemption but other than that, I am distinctly meh on the whole thing.

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herbz

herbz

(edited)
18 hours ago, MaKaM said:

And the Russian crime boss bribing the judges was running an illegal gambling ring in Trump Tower--if you wrote this sh*t as a movie script, it would be kicked back due to unbelievably.

I'm still kinda bitter about 2014 Ladies competition, so I don't know how much I will watch. I am also still real unconvinced with the PCS scores, their fairness, their application across the field, and really think the whole system needs another overhaul. But, I hope Mirai gets a shot at the team and can land her 3A for some redemption but other than that, I am distinctly meh on the whole thing.

From the odd thing I've gleaned over the years from people still involved in figure skating, it's far from the only ridiculous Bond villain exchange that's gone down. 

I really think it would take something like ice dance being removed from the Olympic program- it's been discussed before- for the ISU to really look at themselves. When you've got unapologetic cheaters heading federations and heads of other federations judging their own skaters at international events (Canada and the USA both have this situation, and it's not good) it completely undermines any integrity it might have as a sport. There was the end of anonymous judging, but really all that seems to have done is lend a veneer of credibility to the nationalistic lowballing and inflation of certain skaters' scores. 

Oh, the application of PCS drives me batty across all the disciplines. As does reputation bonus GOE. Judges should be able to separate 'things I personally like' from 'things that are correct and have merit according to the code' and half the time they just don't. 2014 Ladies was a joke. 2014 Short Dance was a joke. Ice dance is my thing, it's the sport I grew up in and I love it, but the politicking is insane. I'm going to be rather unhappy when Virtue and Moir lose Olympic gold to a pretty team with demonstrably inferior skating skills who inexplicably have been scoring higher in that component this season. And I'm not even Canadian. It's the sense of predetermination that hovers over all the competitions. What you do on the night should matter. I don't know why I'm still so invested. 

But yes, I'm crossing my fingers for Mirai! She deserves this moment. 

Edited by herbz
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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

1 hour ago, herbz said:

2014 Short Dance was a joke. Ice dance is my thing, it's the sport I grew up in and I love it, but the politicking is insane. I'm going to be rather unhappy when Virtue and Moir lose Olympic gold to a (still good, don't get me wrong) team with demonstrably inferior skating skills who inexplicably have been scoring higher in that component this season. And I'm not even Canadian. It's the sense of predetermination that hovers over all the competitions. What you do on the night should matter. I don't know why I'm still so invested. 

 

What was wrong, in your opinion, with the 2014 SD?

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herbz

herbz

(edited)
1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

What was wrong, in your opinion, with the 2014 SD?

Virtue and Moir should've won it. I don't know a non-American figure skater who didn't concur. They were cleaner- their non touch step sequence was superior, their Finnstep more accurately timed, and the lost level highly dubious at best. I've reviewed it a hundred times since with others and still don't get it. D/W skated theirs slightly tight (you could always tell by when Meryl had more trouble straightening her knees than usual and force an edge from a flat) and broke a world record while V/M couldn't beat their season's best for the best SD performance of the season when scoring at the Olympics tends to be a bit higher than usual anyway. Performing earlier as well as Tessa messing up the twizzles in the same program during the team event probably didn't help (though I believe they were lowballed in PCS there too), but based on the night they almost certainly should've been ahead going into the free rather than nearly 3 points back. 

Not saying they should've won overall, because I thought V/M's free was artistically stagnant and personally couldn't connect with it at all (especially after their masterpiece Carmen the year before) and D/W really gave it everything- it was their time and they earned it- but that short was frustrating. 

Edited by herbz
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Libby96

Libby96

(edited)

I agree that the PCS has become a place to hide shennanigans.  I do not come from a skating background and don't claim that my 30 years of fandom makes me an expert, but when I see it seemingly discussed in matter of fact terms that newer skaters on the scene won't get the PCS based on their reputation, or when PCS seems to almost always rise as tech scores rise (looking at you, Zagitova) it does not seem that judges are always judging the skating skills, transitions and interpretation that is happening right there, in front of them, on the ice THAT DAY.

But I will watch, I always do, and there will be moments of happiness and disappointment, of transcendence and frustration, and if we are lucky the skaters who are nearly flawless on that day will land on the podium.

Edited by Libby96
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herbz

herbz

^ PCS are a very convenient smokescreen. I was banging my head against the desk when Coomes/Buckland (talented Brits, probably looking at top 10 at best at Olys, just back from a really serious injury to Penny) skated their comeback programs- one of the best, most authentic Latin shorts of the season- cleanly at NHK and their components were all over the place. It was completely obvious that the judges were trying to figure out what number to lob at them to re-establish them in the existing hierarchy but couldn't get it consistent across the panel because they'd been away for a good while. Then you've got P/C getting a rain of 10.00s at Europeans for their flattest short this season with visible errors on the way to a new overall world record of 203+ (203!), for reasons I can only suppose were to send the message that these are your rightful Olympic champions. I don't think the code is a bad idea in theory, it's just not applied consistently or correctly all too often. 

I'll still watch and curse and cheer. There are a lot of wonderful programs from unexpected corners this cycle. 

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