S08.E10: Meltdown In Milan

[jaybird2]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

You are SOOOO not repressed, @jaybird2.  The mere fact that you are not clutching your pearls while condemning me to eternal damnation proves THAT point!  I'd cop to the spit take, if i could afford to buy you a new screen; but for now, I must Deny, Deny, Deny - just like Juicy Joe.

haha....i clutch my pearls over danielle ...i'm embarrassed watching her and i'm watching it by myself as mr jaybird wouldn't watch this trash!

Edited December 15, 2017 by jaybird2

[pieinmyeye]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:08 PM, Bronzedog said:

Siggy, the relationship expert, should name her next book - “Make a Bad Analogy and You Are Dead To Me!”

Relationship expert??!! She's an expert alright. Her specialties include not being able to forgive others, not being able to control her foul mouth in public, and having no self control or manners what so ever. I definitely think she could benefit from counseling and a big damn apology to everyone in that restaurant who was trying to enjoy a wonderful dinner until you she ruined it. What trash!!!!!!!

[Saltgypsie]

I also caught Danielle wearing the "Lovers" coat.  interesting..Same as Melissa's?  Melissa said she wasn't brining it..

[rustyspigot]

Delete.

Edited December 15, 2017 by rustyspigot

[swankie]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:46 PM, Martinigirl said:

I think Siggy's career if dunso

I was so hoping Margaret or Danielle would have said, "You call yourself a relationship expert?  You can't even manage to get along with your own friends!"  She needs to see how bogus she is.  I wouldn't cry if she left the show.  She's so damned annoying.  And her butt plug Delores is just as bad.  She doesn't like Margaret just because Siggy doesn't.  She has no mind of her own.  And with every episode I can tell she can't stand Melissa or Teresa.  I think she purposely walked in Kim D's show just to irritate them.  I guarantee if Siggy had said she wasn't going to walk in the show, Delores would have followed suit.  She's such a puppet.  Can't stand her. 

[NeverLate]

What a charming group of women. Visiting beautiful Milan, and all acting as tacky and  as trashy as possible. Danielle telling everyone how you give a rainbow blowjob, on a wine bottle. Yes, she's a treat

Theresa thinks everyone should have her back, a favour she never ever returns! 

[Mr. Miner]

8 hours ago, NeverLate said:

What a charming group of women. Visiting beautiful Milan, and all acting as tacky and  as trashy as possible. Danielle telling everyone how you give a rainbow blowjob, on a wine bottle. Yes, she's a treat

Theresa thinks everyone should have her back, a favour she never ever returns! 

That's why I like Delores, she doesn't kiss Tre's ass. Why she's hitched her wagon to psycho Soggy I don't know? Danielle and her "I will not be dismissed" can fuck off, she's a dirty slimy snake.

[Normades]

22 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I think every one of us has made a dumb comment in our lives.  But Soggy doesn't do the adult thing - take the person aside in private and say "I'm sure you didn't mean to  hurt me by that remark, but in light of my family history, I found the 'Hitler' reference a little more shocking and hurtful than the average person might have."  A grownup gives the offending party a reasonable explanation for their offense and also facilitates the offender's ability to apologize.  Soggy instead takes every event and puts it center stage, for audience participation in her outrage.  Oh, and of course, throw down the bigotry card.  Because that always ends well.

Yes, the remark was insensitive considering Siggy's history, but her reaction makes the point get lost in all the drama.  Also, had she reacted in the more low key manner you described, I think it would have had more impact.  Sometimes, a calm, quiet word can get a point across much better than screaming and drama.  Of course, this is Siggy, so she will always go for maximum drama.

[Fiero425]

On another site, it's thought that Siggy's already been fired doing RT interviews on her Twitter account! She seems to be kvetchin' about being made to look like a villain and Margaret being the saintly one thru editing! She's bent and I hope it's true! "We won't miss you, you crazy b!tch! Happy Hanukkah and Shalom!" ;-)

[RHJunkie]

It seems Siggy has taken to Twitter to retweet every fan she can find that is #TeamSiggy and that includes retweeting some pretty nasty comments being made about Margaret that degrade her personality, slander her character and insult her appearance. If Siggy is so compassionate and truly impacted by her life experiences, how does it make any sense that she would behave even worse than the person she claims is insensitive and offensive? Further, her 'fans' are displaying similar or worse behaviour than Margaret's grievances and Siggy is promoting it with all of he retweets, showing that she's complicit in the nasty things people are saying. To retweet one mean thing could be an accident or not meant to be malicious but to retweet ALL of them is clearly not. Siggy is just proving that she has no real values or moral compass. She is selfish and her values are based purely on her own damn feelings (which apparently only she is allowed to have and express in any manner she wants) rather than based on what is right and just.

[Wicked]

Siggy has really crossed a line the way she is going after Margaret.  I think she's pulled ahead of my previously most hated housewife, Aviva.  Calling someone white trash is nothing compared to the character assassination Siggy is trying to pull off. 

[Fiero425]

1 minute ago, Wicked said:

Siggy has really crossed a line the way she is going after Margaret.  I think she's pulled ahead of my previously most hated housewife, Aviva.  Calling someone white trash is nothing compared to the character assassination Siggy is trying to pull off. 

She should look in the mirror when shrieking about someone being "white trash!" She sounds like it, looks like it, and acts like it; she's absolute filth! ;-(

10 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

It seems Siggy has taken to Twitter to retweet every fan she can find that is #TeamSiggy and that includes retweeting some pretty nasty comments being made about Margaret that degrade her personality, slander her character and insult her appearance. If Siggy is so compassionate and truly impacted by her life experiences, how does it make any sense that she would behave even worse than the person she claims is insensitive and offensive? Further, her 'fans' are displaying similar or worse behavior than Margaret's grievances and Siggy is promoting it with all of he retweets, showing that she's complicit in the nasty things people are saying. To retweet one mean thing could be an accident or not meant to be malicious but to retweet ALL of them is clearly not. Siggy is just proving that she has no real values or moral compass. She is selfish and her values are based purely on her own damn feelings (which apparently only she is allowed to have and express in any manner she wants) rather than based on what is right and just.

I don't do Twitter, but wished I had a phone and account to make her pay for her juvenile behavior! "Please feel free to eviscerate the b!tch Y'all!" ;-(

[MaggieG]

I agree with everyone that the analogy was probably not the right one but Margaret didn't mean it to be evil. Color me shocked that Danielle said to Siggy the way to handle it was "bad analogy, pick another one." I believe Marge would have realized what she said and apologized. That would have been the mature way to handle it but we all know Siggy isn't mature. She's a nutbag. The only thing I like about Dolores is that she is not afraid of appearing on camera without make-up.

I would be pissed if this was my first time in Milan and I go out for my first dinner, excited to eat Italian pasta and these heiffers ruin it with all of their screaming.

Edited December 15, 2017 by MaggieG

[archer1267]

Quote

Siggy is offended because she "brought" Margaret on the show to be one of her toadies. 

But Margaret was approached in 2013 about doing the show. She didn't need Siggy to get on RHONJ.

Who was the 4th guy at dinner with Joe Gorga, Margaret's husband, and Frank Catania? Was that Danielle's boyfriend? He seemed so...normal and rational. How'd he get mixed up with Danielle?

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, Mr. Minor said:

That's why I like Delores, she doesn't kiss Tre's ass. Why she's hitched her wagon to psycho Soggy I don't know? Danielle and her "I will not be dismissed" can fuck off, she's a dirty slimy snake.

 I don't mind Delores, at least Siggy and Delores have fun without being gross.

[SweetieDarling]

22 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Herself.  Juggling random mens' balls on her face. 

I fervently hope that Siggy's husband encouraged her to do this show, and is planning on pulling a Kelsey Grammar on her pellet punched ass (unless she makes out like Camille, which, considering her intelligence quotient, is unlikely).

SIggy's husband said he wanted her to, no, sorry, he TOLD her to cut back her work schedule.  Her behavior on the show this season, should help his desire come true command be obeyed. I can't imagine there will be much demand for her brand of relationship expertise after this season. It's a win-win; she gets to fulfill her attention whore dreams by being on the show, and being on the show is destroying her credibility as a relationship expert, which should result in fewer appearances. 

[Juliegirlj]

Dolores isn't team Siggy because of their friendship or moral code- she is automatically anti Giudice/ Gorga because of her very close association with Caroline Manzo and her family. Dolores and Siggy have nothing in common and are unlikely allies. Dolores admitted that Caroline Manzo is her mentor. She hasn't spoken to Dina since Caroline and Dina began their feud ( Dina is very close to Teresa). Not hard to connect the dots here. 

[gaPeach]

Count me in as agreeing the analogy Margret used was dead on to what Siggy was saying.  Siggy said Kim D has been nice to her even though Siggy just witnessed Kim D repeating a "rumor" to Teresa that Siggy and Delores told Kim D that neither one believed and was shaky at best.  So Siggy was justifying her standing with Kim D because Siggy "judges her friends by how they treat HER".  Well, millions stood by while Hitler exterminated Jews and used the same logic.  But I am inclined to believe a large portion of them were scared shitless and were afraid to speak up.  It is a harsh reality, it is part of history.  As sensitive as Siggy is about it, the Jewish people including those that lived though the concentration camps, support keeping the very camps they were imprisoned in, standing so people never forget what happened.  So the analogy was correct, just politically incorrect right now.

What it appears to me in Siggy's comments last night is, I don't think she gets what Margret meant.  I really don't think Siggy gets it at all.  And this episode kind of supports that opinion when Siggy called Margret anti-Semitic..........huh?  

I like Margret a lot.  And I agree with posters that have said that Delores might be jealous of Margret and Siggy being friends.  Remember when Siggy met Margret and they made up?  Then Siggy told Delores she was good with Margret and Delores shot that down and within seconds Siggy was questioning Margret again.  Weird.

And I don't see it or agree with it when Siggy and Delores say that Margret is out to attack Siggy any chance she gets.  Margret has never called Siggy out but Siggy has now called Margret out twice publicly.  How exhausting it would be to keep explaining to a friend you mean nothing by your sarcastic comments and that friend agrees and understands, only to have that friend have short term memory loss or selective hearing........

I used to like Siggy last season.  Not any more.  Worst. Relationship. Counselor. Ever.

Edited December 15, 2017 by gaPeach
my grammer is bad.........

[beaker73]

We're these women paid  $$$ for each time they said, "elephant in the room"? Because my god....

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, beaker73 said:

We're these women paid  $$$ for each time they said, "elephant in the room"? Because my god....

I laughed., because that was obviously the sentence fed to them. Fit this in somewhere..anywhere, any how...they're not good actresses.* snort*

[zoeysmom]

16 hours ago, N. Bluth said:

I am a bit surprised that so many are defending Margaret, but with the caveat that referencing Hitler was somehow inappropriate or thoughtless or insensitive. She was making a point. Often the fastest way to make a point is by going to extremes, and God knows it's hard to get a word in around these women, so you've got to get in and make that point.

Margaret was trying to say that the collateral damage that someone causes should not be irrelevant to one's decision as to whether to ally with him or her. Let's be real--Margaret is not going to be able to say that and be heard over the din, so she went to a topic every one would get--Hitler. Sure, she could have used another tyrant, but are we really to believe that Siggy, let alone Teresa, Melissa, Dolores, and Danielle, are going to have working knowledge of the ways of Pol Pot or Stalin or Ceausescu? To quote Gob from Arrested Development, "Come on!" 

 

I gotta love Siggy's rule that you can't mention Hitler unless you're referencing the Holocaust. Someone needs to tell Bryant Gumbel that he just offended Siggy by mentioning "Hitler in the 1936 Olympics" on his sports show. And I'm sorry that Siggy's father was victimized in the Holocaust, but that does not prevent someone from mentioning Hitler. Someone's going to mention it, dear. It's Godwin's law. Grow a thicker skin. 

If I was going to cherry-pick and be disturbed by one of their behaviors as of late, it is, hands-down, Dolores getting all up in Melissa's face for...what, exactly? For asking a question? Dolores is such a shady bitch, and her actions this season are increasingly bordering on violence. To me, what she did to Melissa was worse than throwing glasses, even abroad. It's probably even worse than throwing out "anti-Semite," which was so patently ridiculous that it could have been ignored. You don't put your hands on someone or get in their face. Dirty, thirsty bitch. Condescending. Rude. The way she shut Margaret down for referencing Hitler the morning after the fight was so smug and sanctimonious that it reminded me exactly of Caroline Manzo. Dolores is a surrogate for Caroline Manzo. She is doing her bidding. It is Siggy who better sleep with one eye open (though she probably sleeps with both eyes open with that face pulled so tight), because just as Caroline turned on Teresa (and Jacqueline and Dina), so too will Dolores turn on Siggy, as soon as Siggy fails to fill Dolores's pathological need to rally against friends in favor of psychos, in an effort to fill the vast vacuum of nothing that is her life. 

What is ridiculous about the argument between Siggy and Margaret-is Margaret was the one butting into a situation where she had no history with Kim D. or even had met her.  It is nice Melissa and Teresa talk of how Kim D. wronged them, and Delores and Siggy certainly stuck up for Teresa and the infidelity accusations.    Kim D. was also fiercely protective of Teresa after the melee at the Posche fashion show.  IIRC Teresa chose to blame Jacqueline for the whole situation.  I saw it as an opportunity for Margaret to butt in where she need not venture.  

From an interview with Teresa in US Magazine:  

Your former pal Kim DePaolo has been telling people you have a boyfriend. Is that true?

No! I’m surprised it took over a year for something like that to come out about me. I have a lot of guy friends. I really don’t care what people think — I’m not living in a bubble, I have to go on with my life. And when I was away, Joe was photographed with girls and he told me, “Listen, they were with my friends,” and I said, “OK, fine.”

The comment was over the top in that Kim D.-although relatively cruel, certainly hasn't risen to the level of Hitler.  It is okay just to reference someone as evil-there doesn't need to be a comparison.  So I found this account of Siggy and the discussion in Milan-somehow I do believe she was hurt by the comment and Margaret refused to recognize instead choosing to argue the point which pretty much negates any expressions of apology she may have wanted to express.

So the comment about Hitler was pretty awful in that she said Hitler would not kill her and essentially Siggy would not have been spared.  It came of at best insensitive and worst anti-semantic.  I found this story describing what went down in Milan-

However, Siggy Flicker tells AllAboutTheTea.com exclusively that the real deal was left on the cutting room floor — and viewers saw a watered down version of their actual exchange.

“Once again production is trying to put out a false narrative.” The RHONJstar tells AllAboutTheTea.com. “When I calmly approached Margret about bringing up Hitler in a conversation that was far removed from the Holocaust or the atrocities of World War II, she was not apologetic.”

Siggy reveals Margaret’s unedited response was rude, dismissive and meant to provoke a red-hot reaction from the relationship expert.  

Production left out that she [Margaret’] said — ‘Oh be quiet…you’re overreacting. What should I have done, reference Osama Bin Laden?'” Siggy shares with AllAboutTheTea.com.

The edited fight was seemingly produced to make Siggy look unhinged over what appeared to be non-inflammatory responses from Margaret.

As to Siggy claming Super Jew status I believe it is a reference to her father:

Siggy’s father is renowned scholar, Dr. Mordecai Paldiel. He’s a professor, author, a leading expert on rescue during the Holocaust, and the former Director of Israel’s Holocaust Authority. Dr. Paldiel has devoted his life to recognizing those who hid and saved the innocent during World War II.

The article in full:  http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2017/12/14/exclusive-siggy-exposes/

I thought Margaret was over acting with the shivering-she obviously did not want to have a conversation with Siggy about her previous comment.  Margaret is a bit of a velvet hammer.  What she should be doing is putting herself in the situation when Melissa and Teresa were battling and Teresa had a huge grudge over her family coming on the show.  Danielle would remember because she was all too happy to have conversations with Melissa about Teresa.  The tension between Melissa and Teresa and the other RH choosing sides or trying to stay neutral was pretty difficult to achieve.  

Then there is Danielle-why she thought it appropriate to involve herself is a patent example of how desperate Danielle is to be picked up as RHONJ again.  She was dismissed once before and apparently was unable to return as a full on RH.   

If producers are going to continue to set up these volatile staged situations-they either need better writers, better actors or both.

Edited December 15, 2017 by zoeysmom

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, Mr. Minor said:

That's why I like Delores, she doesn't kiss Tre's ass. Why she's hitched her wagon to psycho Soggy I don't know? Danielle and her "I will not be dismissed" can fuck off, she's a dirty slimy snake.

She doesn't kiss Tre's ass because her lips are permanently affixed to Siggy's. 

I think Dolores is still wounded from when she and Frank split and she was apparently cut off from their social circle. I think she likes Siggy, as a friend, because Siggy is very needy and it makes Dolores feel important. And she is so ride-or-die for her, because she's afraid of losing friends again. 

[CookieBud]

I'm Jewish, lost family in the holocaust and didn't take the least bit of offense to what Margaret was saying.  Siggy is just a mess and really needs some professional help.

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

She doesn't kiss Tre's ass because her lips are permanently affixed to Siggy's. 

I think Dolores is still wounded from when she and Frank split and she was apparently cut off from their social circle. I think she likes Siggy, as a friend, because Siggy is very needy and it makes Dolores feel important. And she is so ride-or-die for her, because she's afraid of losing friends again. 

Theresa is just as needy though, if she wants needy, she could kiss her ass.

[ladle]

Why does Teresa speak to all of the food servers in English?

 

Say what you will about Danielle Staub, but at least she's one of the few cast members who's capable of pronouncing the "t" in "but."

 

I don't like Melissa, but she's looking fantastic in her talking heads this season.

 

Siggy is exhausting. 

[ghoulina]

24 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Theresa is just as needy though, if she wants needy, she could kiss her ass.

Tre has a million issues, but I don't see her as emotionally needy the way Siggy is. Quite the opposite. I think she buries her shit so far you'd need a metal detector, map, and shovel to find that crap. She seems to stand on her own just fine. 

[zoeysmom]

15 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Tre has a million issues, but I don't see her as emotionally needy the way Siggy is. Quite the opposite. I think she buries her shit so far you'd need a metal detector, map, and shovel to find that crap. She seems to stand on her own just fine. 

I have often thought someone needs to Siggy a favor and first find her volume switch and turn it way down and then find the off switch and press it.  She is exhausting and it seems what fuels her is attention.

[NeverLate]

21 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Tre has a million issues, but I don't see her as emotionally needy the way Siggy is. Quite the opposite. I think she buries her shit so far you'd need a metal detector, map, and shovel to find that crap. She seems to stand on her own just fine. 

Gosh I just find her so whiny, maybe whiny and not so needy. Meh, but stand on her own, she has to right now. Her DH is in jail. 

[SheTalksShit]

36 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Gosh I just find her so whiny, maybe whiny and not so needy. Meh, but stand on her own, she has to right now. Her DH is in jail. 

Not necessarily, many women in her situation can't stand to be alone or get lonely/bored after a while and find someone new. But Teresa, so far, seems to be sticking it out. It seems like, for Teresa, forever means forever, not just "forever until it becomes difficult." 

8 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

It seems Siggy has taken to Twitter to retweet every fan she can find that is #TeamSiggy and that includes retweeting some pretty nasty comments being made about Margaret that degrade her personality, slander her character and insult her appearance. If Siggy is so compassionate and truly impacted by her life experiences, how does it make any sense that she would behave even worse than the person she claims is insensitive and offensive? Further, her 'fans' are displaying similar or worse behaviour than Margaret's grievances and Siggy is promoting it with all of he retweets, showing that she's complicit in the nasty things people are saying. To retweet one mean thing could be an accident or not meant to be malicious but to retweet ALL of them is clearly not. Siggy is just proving that she has no real values or moral compass. She is selfish and her values are based purely on her own damn feelings (which apparently only she is allowed to have and express in any manner she wants) rather than based on what is right and just.

bc she's hurt. people who are sensitive and emotional feel things on a deeper level, including hurt, so they tend to react more angrily and vindictively than someone whose insensitive and doesn't give a fuck. 

[NeverLate]

Quote

Not necessarily, many women in her situation can't stand to be alone or get lonely/bored after a while and find someone new. But Teresa, so far, seems to be sticking it out. It seems like, for Teresa, forever means forever, not just "forever until it becomes difficult." 

Poor soul, she's been on holiday with her kids and her father. She's in Milan, tough life! And Im betting the rumors are true about seeing soneone, because she isn't seeing Joe! She complains about Joe, he didn't do this, he didnt plan that. Well she doesn't work, the kids practically look after themselves now. Sell that ugly monstrosity of a house, pay off some bills, learn to look after you're own money, and quit complaining about Joe. She knew she did wrong, but no matter, she was living high off the hog, she still is. Without this show, she has nothing, and I don't see this show lasting too long..wait until she turns on Melissa again, and she will.

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, NeverLate said:

Poor soul, she's been on holiday with her kids and her father. She's in Milan, tough life! And Im betting the rumors are true about seeing soneone, because she isn't seeing Joe! She complains about Joe, he didn't do this, he didnt plan that. Well she doesn't work, the kids practically look after themselves now. Sell that ugly monstrosity of a house, pay off some bills, learn to look after you're own money, and quit complaining about Joe. She knew she did wrong, but no matter, she was living high off the hog, she still is. Without this show, she has nothing, and I don't see this show lasting too long..wait until she turns on Melissa again, and she will.

Ummm hello? She does work and you're seeing it on your TV screen every week. You think she films RHONJ for free? That's her job/work. And all the other shit that comes with the platform, books etc. you think she writes them for free? that's how she makes money. 

And I actually believe she didn't know what Jo was doing w/the finances, bc her brother seems to adamently agree and Jo has said as much, too. I think Teresa and Jo had/have a very old school marriage where the husband goes and makes the money and handles all the bills and finances and the wife stays at home and takes care of the house and kids. I think Jo knew Teresa liked nice things, for sure and that may have influenced his recklessness with money, but I don't think Teresa knew. I think Jo probably felt it was his job, as a man, to make his wife happy. 

I think maybe Jo felt like he'd be less of a man if he told Teresa to cut back and not go shopping as much, etc. he'd feel like he'd failed her. So he didnt. 

Whether or not Teresa is seeing someone new or not, who knows, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. I guess time will tell! 

He's about halfway done with his sentence, btw, I just realized. 

[RedheadZombie]

8 hours ago, gaPeach said:

Count me in as agreeing the analogy Margret used was dead on to what Siggy was saying.  Siggy said Kim D has been nice to her even though Siggy just witnessed Kim D repeating a "rumor" to Teresa that Siggy and Delores told Kim D that neither one believed and was shaky at best.  So Siggy was justifying her standing with Kim D because Siggy "judges her friends by how they treat HER".  Well, millions stood by while Hitler exterminated Jews and used the same logic.  But I am inclined to believe a large portion of them were scared shitless and were afraid to speak up.  It is a harsh reality, it is part of history.  As sensitive as Siggy is about it, the Jewish people including those that lived though the concentration camps, support keeping the very camps they were imprisoned in, standing so people never forget what happened.  So the analogy was correct, just politically incorrect right now.

What it appears to me in Siggy's comments last night is, I don't think she gets what Margret meant.  I really don't think Siggy gets it at all.  And this episode kind of supports that opinion when Siggy called Margret anti-Semitic..........huh?  

I like Margret a lot.  And I agree with posters that have said that Delores might be jealous of Margret and Siggy being friends.  Remember when Siggy met Margret and they made up?  Then Siggy told Delores she was good with Margret and Delores shot that down and within seconds Siggy was questioning Margret again.  Weird.

And I don't see it or agree with it when Siggy and Delores say that Margret is out to attack Siggy any chance she gets.  Margret has never called Siggy out but Siggy has now called Margret out twice publicly.  How exhausting it would be to keep explaining to a friend you mean nothing by your sarcastic comments and that friend agrees and understands, only to have that friend have short term memory loss or selective hearing........

I used to like Siggy last season.  Not any more.  Worst. Relationship. Counselor. Ever.

I strongly disagree with this.  That analogy is anything but dead on.  I realize that Siggy is greatly hated, and much of it earned, but it's almost laughable the lengths people will go to excuse away such a nasty comment.  To compare genocide in any way to spreading a rumor stretches credibility to an unbelievable length.  But then to use an analogy in such a tortured and forced way that you compare a Holocaust survivor's daughter to those who stood by and watched millions being murdered is disgusting.

It's just disturbing to me that Siggy's unlikability not only justifies the comment in some people's minds, but they also take joy from it with lovely comments like good riddance and "Happy Hanukkah".  And while I don't believe Margaret's analogy makes her anti-Semitic, she can go kick rocks with her "my step-kids are Jewish" defense, which is right up there with a racist's defense of "I'm not racist, I voted for Obama", and I'm not a bigot, I have a "Jew lawyer".  

And while I had a modicum of sympathy for Margaret's situation with her step-children, I cannot help but think she's alienating them further.  Bringing up the entire thing on camera, with tears, in a previous episode, and then her fragile, trembling response when her step-children's heritage was brought up, is starting to feel like they're becoming her story line.  Trying to shame them into letting you back into their life is probably not the best strategy.

 

22 hours ago, N. Bluth said:

I am a bit surprised that so many are defending Margaret, but with the caveat that referencing Hitler was somehow inappropriate or thoughtless or insensitive. She was making a point. Often the fastest way to make a point is by going to extremes, and God knows it's hard to get a word in around these women, so you've got to get in and make that point.

Margaret was trying to say that the collateral damage that someone causes should not be irrelevant to one's decision as to whether to ally with him or her. Let's be real--Margaret is not going to be able to say that and be heard over the din, so she went to a topic every one would get--Hitler. Sure, she could have used another tyrant, but are we really to believe that Siggy, let alone Teresa, Melissa, Dolores, and Danielle, are going to have working knowledge of the ways of Pol Pot or Stalin or Ceausescu? To quote Gob from Arrested Development, "Come on!" 

 

I gotta love Siggy's rule that you can't mention Hitler unless you're referencing the Holocaust. Someone needs to tell Bryant Gumbel that he just offended Siggy by mentioning "Hitler in the 1936 Olympics" on his sports show. And I'm sorry that Siggy's father was victimized in the Holocaust, but that does not prevent someone from mentioning Hitler. Someone's going to mention it, dear. It's Godwin's law. Grow a thicker skin. 

If I was going to cherry-pick and be disturbed by one of their behaviors as of late, it is, hands-down, Dolores getting all up in Melissa's face for...what, exactly? For asking a question? Dolores is such a shady bitch, and her actions this season are increasingly bordering on violence. To me, what she did to Melissa was worse than throwing glasses, even abroad. It's probably even worse than throwing out "anti-Semite," which was so patently ridiculous that it could have been ignored. You don't put your hands on someone or get in their face. Dirty, thirsty bitch. Condescending. Rude. The way she shut Margaret down for referencing Hitler the morning after the fight was so smug and sanctimonious that it reminded me exactly of Caroline Manzo. Dolores is a surrogate for Caroline Manzo. She is doing her bidding. It is Siggy who better sleep with one eye open (though she probably sleeps with both eyes open with that face pulled so tight), because just as Caroline turned on Teresa (and Jacqueline and Dina), so too will Dolores turn on Siggy, as soon as Siggy fails to fill Dolores's pathological need to rally against friends in favor of psychos, in an effort to fill the vast vacuum of nothing that is her life. 

I would substitute the word "fastest" for "poorest".  And it's funny to me that Kim D is a tyrant now that Tre no longer uses her as a personal attack dog.  But that's the thing, neglect your attack dog and they may turn their teeth on you.  I'm still not sure what Teresa expected Siggy and Delores to do during her confrontation with Kim.  There's Teresa, formerly known to have thrown Andy Cohen into his chair like a mad ape, towering over a sitting Kim D, and flanked by three yes-women.  It was one thug against another thug, and I sure the fuck would not have involved myself in that.  Teresa has become violent more than once, has been in prison, and had three others in her intimidation/threatening of the singular Kim D, who while a hag of the highest order, has not been known to put her hands on people (to my knowledge).

And big whip that Delores got in Melissa's face - come on.  These bitches do that shit all the time.  And that's worse than Danielle's violence, or even Teresa's?  Not to me. 

And while I've never been a fan of Caroline Manzo, it's quite amusing that people pearl clutch the name - Did you hear????  Delores is still friends with Caroline!  You know Caroline Manzo, the one Teresa was like family with for years!  News flash people, just because Teresa Giudice decides she's through with someone, the entire world doesn't have to cut them out of her life.  And while Dina is apparently incapable of being friends with Teresa and Caroline, it doesn't mean others cannot.

[SheTalksShit]

10 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I strongly disagree with this.  That analogy is anything but dead on.  I realize that Siggy is greatly hated, and much of it earned, but it's almost laughable the lengths people will go to excuse away such a nasty comment.  To compare genocide in any way to spreading a rumor stretches credibility to an unbelievable length.  But then to use an analogy in such a tortured and forced way that you compare a Holocaust survivor's daughter to those who stood by and watched millions being murdered is disgusting.

It's just disturbing to me that Siggy's unlikability not only justifies the comment in some people's minds, but they also take joy from it with lovely comments like good riddance and "Happy Hanukkah".  And while I don't believe Margaret's analogy makes her anti-Semitic, she can go kick rocks with her "my step-kids are Jewish" defense, which is right up there with a racist's defense of "I'm not racist, I voted for Obama", and I'm not a bigot, I have a "Jew lawyer".  

And while I had a modicum of sympathy for Margaret's situation with her step-children, I cannot help but think she's alienating them further.  Bringing up the entire thing on camera, with tears, in a previous episode, and then her fragile, trembling response when her step-children's heritage was brought up, is starting to feel like they're becoming her story line.  Trying to shame them into letting you back into their life is probably not the best strategy.

 

I would substitute the word "fastest" for "poorest".  And it's funny to me that Kim D is a tyrant now that Tre no longer uses her as a personal attack dog.  But that's the thing, neglect your attack dog and they may turn their teeth on you.  I'm still not sure what Teresa expected Siggy and Delores to do during her confrontation with Kim.  There's Teresa, formerly known to have thrown Andy Cohen into his chair like a mad ape, towering over a sitting Kim D, and flanked by three yes-women.  It was one thug against another thug, and I sure the fuck would not have involved myself in that.  Teresa has become violent more than once, has been in prison, and had three others in her intimidation/threatening of the singular Kim D, who while a hag of the highest order, has not been known to put her hands on people (to my knowledge).

And big whip that Delores got in Melissa's face - come on.  These bitches do that shit all the time.  And that's worse than Danielle's violence, or even Teresa's?  Not to me. 

And while I've never been a fan of Caroline Manzo, it's quite amusing that people pearl clutch the name - Did you hear????  Delores is still friends with Caroline!  You know Caroline Manzo, the one Teresa was like family with for years!  News flash people, just because Teresa Giudice decides she's through with someone, the entire world doesn't have to cut them out of her life.  And while Dina is apparently incapable of being friends with Teresa and Caroline, it doesn't mean others cannot.

Agreed and plus, how self absorbed and selfish of all these bitches, to come confront Kim D. at and event held for the families of 2 ppl who died very tragically and unexpectedly. Extremely disrespectful and inconsiderate of the families, too. 

She couldn't have waited to confront her another time??? 

[Fiero425]

11 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Agreed and plus, how self absorbed and selfish of all these bitches, to come confront Kim D. at and event held for the families of 2 ppl who died very tragically and unexpectedly. Extremely disrespectful and inconsiderate of the families, too. 

She couldn't have waited to confront her another time??? 

They were hoping to shame Deloris and Siggy out of walking the runway! It's all about being selfish and being idiots! What do you expect from these silly women? ;-)

Edited December 16, 2017 by Fiero425

[SheTalksShit]

Just now, Fiero425 said:

They were hoping to shame Deloris and Siggy out of walking the runway! It's all about being selfish and being idiots! What do you expect from these silly women! ;-)

That is like Donald Trump level of self absorbed, tho. LOL. 

[SheTalksShit]

Also, I agree w/Delores that Margaret is not anti-Semitic, but she is most certainly anti-Siggy and has been from the start. 

[biakbiak]

Wrong thread.

[ElsbethTascioni]

Margaret's analogy was stupid, and insensitive, but it was not anti-semitic, and as far as I can see, neither is she. Siggy is unhinged. She needs some serious therapy, some meds, and a muzzle. I hate it when people like her start throwing "anti-semitic" around willy nilly, because it dilutes actual anti-semitism, and wasn't that her complaint about the Hitler comment? I can start throwing out my own Jew cred (Israeli, lost more family in the Holocaust than I can count, etc.), but I'm not going to self-label as a "super Jew", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. She's disgusting. I hope that she's done with the show.

[Fiero425]

6 minutes ago, ElsbethTascioni said:

Margaret's analogy was stupid, and insensitive, but it was not anti-semitic, and as far as I can see, neither is she. Siggy is unhinged. She needs some serious therapy, some meds, and a muzzle. I hate it when people like her start throwing "anti-semitic" around willy nilly, because it dilutes actual anti-semitism, and wasn't that her complaint about the Hitler comment? I can start throwing out my own Jew cred (Israeli, lost more family in the Holocaust than I can count, etc.), but I'm not going to self-label as a "super Jew", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. She's disgusting. I hope that she's done with the show.

It's one thing to throw the accusation out there, but Siggy's doubled down on it and I think and hope she's history! Her RT Tweets will probably be the end of her and she won't be missed by me! ;-(

[SheTalksShit]

35 minutes ago, ElsbethTascioni said:

Margaret's analogy was stupid, and insensitive, but it was not anti-semitic, and as far as I can see, neither is she. Siggy is unhinged. She needs some serious therapy, some meds, and a muzzle. I hate it when people like her start throwing "anti-semitic" around willy nilly, because it dilutes actual anti-semitism, and wasn't that her complaint about the Hitler comment? I can start throwing out my own Jew cred (Israeli, lost more family in the Holocaust than I can count, etc.), but I'm not going to self-label as a "super Jew", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. She's disgusting. I hope that she's done with the show.

Agreed, but I think Siggy was angry with Margaret, understandably so, b/c they had just made up, and here Margaret was again, joining the crew in ganging up on Siggy, even though it was not her fight to have, it didn't involve her and Margaret was super new to the group, so there was no reason for her to have her head so far up Melissa and Teresa's ass like that. If I were Siggy, I would be annoyed with her, too. 

And Kim D. is a lowlife, but comparing her to HITLER, an evil dictator who is responsible for the killing of 10 million ppl, is a bit dramatic, don't you think?? It was RIDICULOUS of Margaret to get that hysterical over a situation that didn't even really involve her. She didn't even know Kim D, yet she's comparing her to Hitler??? Fucking absurd, sorry. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[dosodog]

Hitler committed large scale genicide. Kim D. runs her mouth, gossiping. 

There is no comparing the two. 

Comparing a person who slaughtered people to a person who talks shit about other people?  Knowingly or not, sugar coats the Holocaust.   Demeans the memory of what happened during the Holocaust. 

But Margaret isn't the first person, nor will be the last person to use Hitler, the Holocaust or the word Nazi, without real thought to the tragedy that occurred.

I don' believe it was her intention, but she did.  Siggy was horrible, but.

Poor analogy just doesn't cut it as an excuse.  

Because.  And I say this again to make the point.

A guy who ordered the imprisonment, the starvation, labor camps, gas chambers, human experimentation and all the other grotesque atrocities acted upon innocent people.  In no way compares to a bitch that runs her mouth.

Eta:  SheTalksShit.  100% agreed! 

Edited December 16, 2017 by dosodog
Waving at SheTalksShit! Hi!

[SheTalksShit]

6 minutes ago, dosodog said:

Hitler committed large scale genicide. Kim D. runs her mouth, gossiping. 

There is no comparing the two. 

Comparing a person who slaughtered people to a person who talks shit about other people?  Knowingly or not, sugar coats the Holocaust.   Demeans the memory of what happened during the Holocaust. 

But Margaret isn't the first person, nor will be the last person to use Hitler, the Holocaust or the word Nazi, without real thought to the tragedy that occurred.

I don' believe it was her intention, but she did.  Siggy was horrible, but.

Poor analogy just doesn't cut it as an excuse.  

Because.  And I say this again to make the point.

A guy who ordered the imprisonment, the starvation, labor camps, gas chambers, human experimentation and all the other grotesque atrocities acted upon innocent people.  In no way compares to a bitch that runs her mouth.

I wasn't even offended by her comparison, i just thought it was RIDICULOUS and completely over-hysterical, especially considering it was a situation that did not really involve her. 

[NeverLate]

4 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

Ummm hello? She does work and you're seeing it on your TV screen every week. You think she films RHONJ for free? That's her job/work. And all the other shit that comes with the platform, books etc. you think she writes them for free? that's how she makes money. 

And I actually believe she didn't know what Jo was doing w/the finances, bc her brother seems to adamently agree and Jo has said as much, too. I think Teresa and Jo had/have a very old school marriage where the husband goes and makes the money and handles all the bills and finances and the wife stays at home and takes care of the house and kids. I think Jo knew Teresa liked nice things, for sure and that may have influenced his recklessness with money, but I don't think Teresa knew. I think Jo probably felt it was his job, as a man, to make his wife happy. 

I think maybe Jo felt like he'd be less of a man if he told Teresa to cut back and not go shopping as much, etc. he'd feel like he'd failed her. So he didnt. 

Whether or not Teresa is seeing someone new or not, who knows, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. I guess time will tell! 

He's about halfway done with his sentence, btw, I just realized. 

LOL, okay I meant other work. Like Melissa or Maggietails. Going to Milan, work? Nah..

I'm not a fan of Thersa or Jo. She may not of known, she's pretty dense..

 

Quote

And Kim D. is a lowlife, but comparing her to HITLER, an evil dictator who is responsible for the killing of 10 million ppl, is a bit dramatic, don't you think?? It was RIDICULOUS of Margaret to get that hysterical over a situation that didn't even really involve her. She didn't even know Kim D, yet she's comparing her to Hitler??? Fucking absurd, sorry. 

I agree with this. Although that low life was all over Melissa at one time, didn't Theresa take the evil ones side...

[RHJunkie]

6 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

Not necessarily, many women in her situation can't stand to be alone or get lonely/bored after a while and find someone new. But Teresa, so far, seems to be sticking it out. It seems like, for Teresa, forever means forever, not just "forever until it becomes difficult." 

bc she's hurt. people who are sensitive and emotional feel things on a deeper level, including hurt, so they tend to react more angrily and vindictively than someone whose insensitive and doesn't give a fuck. 

That's just an excuse for someone who doesn't learn how to emotionally manage themselves and therefore believes that their feelings give them the right to react in any way they want without consequence. Contrary to what many might believe, we aren't a slave to our emotions. 

And if that's the reaction of someone who is sensitive and emotional then it must also be assumed that those kinds of people lack real empathy and sympathy for others and lack any ability to see outside of their own perspective and feelings. 

[CrinkleCutCat]

For goodness sake.... Margaret was not comparing Kim D’s actions to Hitler’s atrocities!

Mararet was saying that just because a bad person like Hitler would have spared her life, that action would not make him a good person. 

It was an analogy to counter Siggy and Delores’ view on Kim D.... which has been well articulated by others in this thread days ago.

Edited December 16, 2017 by CrinkleCutCat

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

For goodness sake.... Margaret was not comparing Kim D’s actions to Hitler’s atrocities!

Mararet was saying that just because a bad person like Hitler would have spared her life, that action would not make him a good person. 

It was an analogy to counter Siggy and Delores’ view on Kim D.... which has been well articulated by others in this thread days ago.

I disagree.  Margaret clearly compared Kim to Hitler, therefore comparing Siggy, the daughter of a Holocaust survivor, to those who passively allowed genocide.  There were millions of analogies that would have aptly made Margaret's point, instead she used hyperbole of the highest order, invoking a monster whose atrocities personally damaged Siggy's family.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't matter if you like Siggy or not.  It doesn't matter if you like Margaret or not.  It was a horrible thing to say.  

Here's an analogy of my own:  Let's say you remained friends with someone who had insulted me.  To make you understand how miffed I am, I invoke the name of a man I know had attempted to murder your father.  In other words, I directly compare a verbal insult to the brutalization of your father.  It would be a horrible way to make my point.  And to make the whole thing worse, Margaret's analogy was to defend someone she hardly even knows.  Margaret has come into this group like she knows all the dynamics, and has equal say in things that have occurred over years in which she was not involved.  These were true, long-term relationships, and Margaret gets worked up enough to scream at Kim D?  It was just as OTT as the overly emotional Siggy, IMO.

And Margaret is so clearly trying for a "Flipping Out" TV show with her entire staff gathered, making cute comments and weighing in on topics they know nothing about.  I have no interest in Margaret's staff, and I won't continue to watch if their role is increased.  I barely tolerate Marge Senior, and openly gagged when Margaret joked that her mother "swallows" after a blow job.  That's right up there with Danielle bragging on her "rainbow blow jobs".  This group has class.

ETA:  And my point has been "well articulated" by me and others as well.

Edited December 16, 2017 by RedheadZombie
ETA

[luckyroll3]

8 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

Agreed and plus, how self absorbed and selfish of all these bitches, to come confront Kim D. at and event held for the families of 2 ppl who died very tragically and unexpectedly. Extremely disrespectful and inconsiderate of the families, too. 

She couldn't have waited to confront her another time??? 

Yes, it was extremely self-absorbed and selfish of them to essentially bumrush the fashion show "charity fundraiser".  However, Kim D only invited Delores and Siggy because she knew the cameras would follow them, just like she deliberately dropped the crumbs about Teresa "rekindling old flames" during the fitting because she knew it would get back to Theresa and crew and they would be encouraged (by production) to talk about it and confront Kim D.  In my opinion Kim D is the one who has been the most disrespectful and inconsiderate of the families she's supposedly trying to help.   

[dosodog]

8 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

For goodness sake.... Margaret was not comparing Kim D’s actions to Hitler’s atrocities!

Mararet was saying that just because a bad person like Hitler would have spared her life, that action would not make him a good person. 

It was an analogy to counter Siggy and Delores’ view on Kim D.... which has been well articulated by others in this thread days ago.

The problem is, when people, including Margaret, use Hitler, the Holocaust and or Nazis, to make a point?

It cheapens the memory of what happened DURING the Holocaust. Which when one thinks about the atrocities committed, one realizes it in no way compares to what most people compare it to.

Does it make Marg anti-semetic?  No. Its a common societal thing to bring up one of histories most horrible times, but that doesn't make it right or correct.

And maybe the point isn't well articulated nor universally shared, but I think it's something to think about.  Historical atrocities should perhaps just stand alone.

Edited December 16, 2017 by dosodog

[Juliegirlj]

If Kim D was truly trying to do good for those families she would never have involved women on a reality tv show. 

[SheTalksShit]

11 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

That's just an excuse for someone who doesn't learn how to emotionally manage themselves and therefore believes that their feelings give them the right to react in any way they want without consequence. Contrary to what many might believe, we aren't a slave to our emotions. 

And if that's the reaction of someone who is sensitive and emotional then it must also be assumed that those kinds of people lack real empathy and sympathy for others and lack any ability to see outside of their own perspective and feelings. 

not necessarily. it's interesting to hear other ppl's POV, tho, bc I feel like I can be like that, sensitive and grudge-holding when someone really hurts me. i'm not talking about stupid shit, like if you snapped at me or something, but if i feel you do me wrong on a deeper level, it's hard for me to let go and i imagine it would be even harder for me if i were on a reality show and had to re-live it when it aired. 

i'm very good at empathizing and sympathizing with others who've done nothing to me or who are good to me, but it's really hard for me to feel any compassion towards people who do me wrong. that's just how i am. they could drop dead tomorrow and i would not give a fuck. i might even secretly smile. anything bad that happens to them, empathy and sympathy is the last thing i feel. 

and i can be quite mean about it, if they give me so much as a nudge. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by SheTalksShit