S02.E06: Vergangenheit

[SWLinPHX]

Remember the episode of "Seinfeld" where Elaine was caught on tape eating the last piece of the Duke and Duchess of WIndsor's wedding cake from decades past?  LOL

[Cheezwiz]

WOW. Fantastic episode. I think one of my favourites so far.

I knew Edward & Wallis were big-time Nazi sympathizers (I think I can recall seeing that photo of Wallis shaking Hitler's hand), but I had no idea how deep the betrayal went. I didn't know Edward was colluding with them to have himself re-installed on the throne, and I also didn't know Wallis had banged Ribbentrop. Good grief. And those of you above who were speculating on what the fate of the two princesses would have been had the Nazis been allowed to run amok, are probably correct. It would have been the Romanovs all over again. Britain certainly dodged a bullet when Edward abdicated.

I must say the actors they cast to play Edward & Wallis are brilliant choices. The actor playing Edward bears an uncanny resemblance in both in looks and sound. There are lots of old interviews of Edward floating around, and he is absolutely a dead-ringer. I also believe that the letters that were used in this episode were real - I think a big cache of them were unearthed & published a few years ago, causing much titillation. They paint a clear picture of what a useless self-pitying twat he was.

I am STILL squeeeing with delight at seeing Tommy Lascelles playing with toy soldiers! Was hoping to see his dogs again, but you can't have everything. Like everyone else, I'm also bereft that we didn't get to see him, the QM & Phillip get stinking drunk together.

The historical photos shown on the close-out made my jaw drop. Such a powerful and chilling conclusion.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Once again, David proves to be a sullen bitchy pain in the ass. First he has the nerve to complain that his life of pleasure is boring and unfulfilling. BOO HOO. I'm sure that all the people who Elizabeth insulted in her speech in the previous episode (you know, the ones with boring, monotonous jobs and empty, lonely lives) would love to trade places with him.

But on top of that, he is never satisfied. He is so negative all the time. The people on the train were common and uninteresting. How dare they invite him to play cards and have drinks? Fruity's estate is too drab and small for his taste. Noel Coward serves inedible food. The fact that he is so two faced illustrates why he was so popular and successful. He managed to hide his dickish side and present a charming face to others.

When he told Elizabeth that the job he was best suited for was essentially entertaining, I just rolled my eyes. In other words, you don't need a job or a purpose. You want to keep doing the same thing you're doing now (lunching, costume parties, etc. aka NOT ACTUALLY WORKING) but get paid to do it.

OMG, I love Tommy Lascelles and his bitchiness and fastidiousness so much. The look on his face when Elizabeth moved one of his little soldiers and he had to move it back before sitting down to talk with her was everything.

Given that we know the show has taken some liberties with history for dramatic license, I loved that they ended this episode with photos of the real Philip and Wallis doing everything that Tommy said they did. I'd seen the pictures before, but it was a powerful reminder to viewers that this show is based on actual events.

On 12/9/2017 at 9:40 AM, Mindthinkr said:

Does the Queen always tote a purse? I've read that she keeps little more than a fresh pair of gloves and perhaps a lipstick in it. 

Yes, and it's always the kind you see on the show: petite and hung on her forearm. Many years ago, I read the reason for this was that when she was younger, she had a purse with a longer (shoulder) strap and when she went to shake hands with someone, the strap slipped and the purse slid off her shoulder, hitting the person whose hand she was shaking. After that, she switched to always having a handbag that she can hang from her forearm. I have no idea if that's actually true, but

According to this article, she carries "a small mirror, lipstick, mints, reading glasses, a pen, and, on Sundays, a crisply ironed £5 or £10 note (never more) for the church collection plate." Her ladies in waiting have extra gloves, tights, and sewing essentials for her. She also uses her bag to signal others. If she switches her handbag from one hand to another, that's the "time to move this person along" signal. When she puts her bag on the table, that means she wants to leave in five minutes. When she puts it on the floor, that means she wants one of her ladies in waiting to come rescue her.

On 12/9/2017 at 7:38 PM, Calamity Jane said:

The other thing they didn't mention directly was whether the Marburg papers were made public then (I certainly don't remember it if they were)

There was a very short scene after Elizabeth told David to GTFO where the historians were told that they had received permission to publish the information.

On 12/10/2017 at 2:37 PM, Lillith said:

But somehow I didn't know, or forgot that he was fine with his brother being overthrown so he could take the crown back. How did he thing that was going to work? And being ok with his subjects being killed to achieve it? 

I felt like those two things went hand in hand. He was fine with his (former) subjects being bombed and killed, so he'd probably be fine with his brother and nieces being killed if that meant achieving his goal, which was getting back on the throne.

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Model camp or not, the mere fact that the place existed should have been an enormous red flag to Uncle Nazi.

Stalin's number of vctims in his own country was already millions but that wouldn't prevent Churchill and Roosevelt to ally with him, nor information how the Soviets had treated Eastern Poland and the Baltic states. And both used fine phrases despite racism in the British empire and the USA. 

I don't think duke of Windsor was a Nazi, rather he was anti-Communist. His opinions were no different than many of his class: all Hitler's faults and crimes could be forgiven, because his Germany was a bulwark againts the Soviet Union. Just as the anti-Fascists thought of Stalin: he was the only hope against Fascism, so nothing he had done to his own people didn't matter.

He claims that his motive was only to maintain peace between England and Germany. But as a constitutional monarch, it was not his business to deal with foreign policy, nor had he a right to do it after Abdication. His nice sounding talk about peace meant actually that Hitler would be given free hands in East Europe. His claim that Hitler became a monster only because England and France didn't give up one more time is sheer nonsense.  

The great difference between Hitler and Stalin was that Nazism could be won only with the war whereas one could fight Communism in one's own country by making people's life better and wait for Soviet system to collapse in time. 

All in all, I think that the greatest fault of the duke was just the same that caused Abdication: nothing and nobody meant to him than Wallis. The main reason he probably went to Nazi Germany was to let Wallis for once enjoy to be treated as a royal. He didn't care a bit that the Nazis would use the visit in their propaganda against his own coutry.

Already this proves that his will to "serve" his country again is a sham. What he really wants was a position that would spare him from boredom and, perhaps even more, to give Wallis an opportunity to shine and see him in best light. 

[PeterPirate]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Stalin's number of vctims in his own country was already millions but that wouldn't prevent Churchill and Roosevelt to ally with him, nor information how the Soviets had treated Eastern Poland and the Baltic states. And both used fine phrases despite racism in the British empire and the USA. 

I don't think duke of Windsor was a Nazi, rather he was anti-Communist. His opinions were no different than many of his class: all Hitler's faults and crimes could be forgiven, because his Germany was a bulwark againts the Soviet Union. Just as the anti-Fascists thought of Stalin: he was the only hope against Fascism, so nothing he had done to his own people didn't matter.

He claims that his motive was only to maintain peace between England and Germany. But as a constitutional monarch, it was not his business to deal with foreign policy, nor had he a right to do it after Abdication. His nice sounding talk about peace meant actually that Hitler would be given free hands in East Europe. His claim that Hitler became a monster only because England and France didn't give up one more time is sheer nonsense.  

The great difference between Hitler and Stalin was that Nazism could be won only with the war whereas one could fight Communism in one's own country by making people's life better and wait for Soviet system to collapse in time. 

All in all, I think that the greatest fault of the duke was just the same that caused Abdication: nothing and nobody meant to him than Wallis. The main reason he probably went to Nazi Germany was to let Wallis for once enjoy to be treated as a royal. He didn't care a bit that the Nazis would use the visit in their propaganda against his own coutry.

Already this proves that his will to "serve" his country again is a sham. What he really wants was a position that would spare him from boredom and, perhaps even more, to give Wallis an opportunity to shine and see him in best light. 

Thank you for that.  There are indeed a lot of complexities involved with any character.  

Here is another excellent (and 90-minute long) program on the subject:  Edward on Edward.  It is titled as such because the narrator is Edward Windsor, the Queen's youngest son.  

While the program covers much of the same ground presented in this episode and the other documentary, it doesn't deal with the question about whether David was the source by which the Germans came to learn that their battle plans had been obtained by the allies.  That's a crucial question to me.  If he was the source--wittingly or not--then he was partly responsible for the deaths of millions of people.    

The program also shows news clippings about David's 1937 trip to Germany, so apparently the visit wasn't a state secret, as this episode seems to imply.  Had he visited without informing his government, it would have been evidence of "consciousness of guilt".

Edited December 12, 2017 by PeterPirate

[MissLucas]

@Roseanna - great post, thanks! Judgements in hindsight are easy to pass. If we could travel back to pre-war times in a Tardis we would have a rude awakening at the number of people who were willing to put up with the Nazis as bulwark against communism. Some might did so with an uneasy feeling, others kept their eyes willfully closed - and then there were people like Mosley and his followers who fully embraced fascism. I'd put the Duke of Windsor in the second camp, I doubt he ever studied any fascist pamphlets or tried to understand the ideology. They (or their lackeys in the UK) flattered him and later made vague promises to get him that crown back and that was good enough for him and his lady.

As for the Duke's visit to a model camp in 1937 - the Red Cross visited Theresienstadt in 1944 (!) and was completely duped.

Edited December 12, 2017 by MissLucas

[mmecorday]

This is easily the best episode of the season, if not the series, so far. I have never been a fan of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Their "love affair" was a bunch of horse hockey. They were nothing more than a pair of highfalutin grifters. The Duke is lucky that Shirley Temple never tossed his hide in prison for his crimes.

The casting of Billy Graham couldn't have been more spot on. The actor's vocal delivery was so much like Graham's without bordering on parody.

[MaggieG]

I noticed something in the beginning of the episode when King George and the Queen Mother were presented with the papers. QM was standing behind KG with her hands on his shoulders. The ring she was wearing looks a lot like Kate's ring (formerly Diana's engagement ring). I know the ring is an heirloom so I thought it was a nice touch (if it was indeed meant to be the same ring)

[biakbiak]

37 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I noticed something in the beginning of the episode when King George and the Queen Mother were presented with the papers. QM was standing behind KG with her hands on his shoulders. The ring she was wearing looks a lot like Kate's ring (formerly Diana's engagement ring). I know the ring is an heirloom so I thought it was a nice touch (if it was indeed meant to be the same ring)

About the ring,

Spoiler

Diana's ring wasn't an an heirloom, it was the jewlery equivalent of "off the rack"

[MaggieG]

Interesting, I did not know that. I thought it was a ring that had been in their family. Either way, the ring QM wears in the first scene looks very similar.

[txhorns79]

Quote

 

And I can't even sympathize with his lack of purpose, because he could have done something useful. He seems to like animals, so he could have worked with some charities, raising funds and things like that. They could have adopted some kid. But he's absolutely, completely useless. 

This! I was thinking the exact same thing. With his money and his connections, he could have been a force for good but he chose a different path. History remembers him accordingly.

 

In his defense, and I could easily be wrong, but I thought David's agreement upon abdication was to keep a low profile, refrain from public engagements and essentially not undertake any activity that would give the impression his actions were endorsed by the Sovereign.  In return for that, he got his allowance and was allowed to live a jet setter lifestyle.   

[PeterPirate]

I can see that part about David telling the Germans that continued bombing of London would lead the British to surrender as an embellishment on the part of Lascelles.  I can see him saying something during dinner like "This bombing is terrible. My people might be forced to give it up", and then having his words twisted around to make it sound like he was encouraging the Germans to keep at it.  

For one thing, whatever he said, he didn't say directly to the Germans.  Also, he had no way of knowing what was really happening in London at the time.  

Edited December 13, 2017 by PeterPirate

[JessDVD]

"It's like a gold star from Jesus" has officially entered the lexicon in this household.

Lord help me, there had better be a deleted scene with QEQM, Philip, and Tommy drinking together.

I am slightly stunned at what a cretin Uncle Nazi was.

I'm waiting for the spin-off starring Tommy Lascelles' mustache.

If Mr DVD and I continue watching, we'll finish the entire show by about 3 AM... Trying to decide if worth it.

[kaygeeret]

pretty brilliant episode.

My take on david is that he was pretty dim, aka stupid, and that wallis ran the show and really demeaned him.

Karma is a bitch isn't it?

She absolutely didn't want to marry him - a PBS documentary lays it all out - but she caved.  At their level of "society" in the 30's it was widely accepted for married people to sleep around for political, business or society reasons.....it was all a game.   She got caught.

The documentaries I have watched really paint him as a petty small minded dolt.

This episode I think really captured his pettiness and entitlement and basic foolishness (aka stupidty).

Good job

[Primetimer]

You knew it was coming.

View the full article

[teddysmom]

Remains of the Day provides some insight in the form of great entertainment as to the House of Lords and the upper class of Great Britain and their take on Germany and Hitler. Christopher Reeve's character points out to them how out of their depth they are, and that they're being played because they think Hitler and the Reich are men of their word.

Wallis Simpson was flat out awful, to put it mildly, she played David for the chump he was, she was never faithful to him, but for some reason he adored her. Probably that male "I want what I can't have" thing.

[Humbugged]

Jess - a little info on Lady Historian or rather the fact the actress who played her Stella Gonet who was one of the stars of the fantastic 90's British TV show The House Of Elliot (about a fashion house in 20'sBritain) which won an EMMY for costuming .Right up your street if you haven't seen it

 

As for things that Elizabeth should probably have been told this is the big one .They learned their lesson and they immediately told her when Anthony Blunt was outed as a spy which is bound to come up in the next 2 seasons - he was though allowed to stay on as her curator of art for the next 15 years as he gave up the rest of his network .Prunella Scales version of Elizabeth in A Question of Attribution snarking at him is a joy

Edited December 13, 2017 by Humbugged

[ChattyKathy]

"That standing against Nazis gets you laid is not the worst moral I've ever heard, to be honest." This should be the theme of 2018.

[Nanna]

Me, excitedly to my husband last night: “The Duke of Windsor is back in this episode, I’m O happy!” That actor really nails the part. I think he probably believed his own story about wanting peace and whatever by this point, and also his resentment against his family was big enough to justify siding with the enemy to himself, I guess. I also liked Philip this episode, which is a first - they kind of seemed like a good couple here, with all their differences.

Also, the funniest part was when the duke of Windsor REALLY didn’t like the idea of being associated with TRADE. For the upper classes trade is the worst and most vulgar. A great detail - and hilarious that he thought he’d be better at the diplomacy that consisted of entertaing. So basically doing the same thing he did anyway, but now with a “purpose”. Boy, what a shallow human being.

[Ina123]

I liked after Elizabeth pretty much told him no, go back to where you came from, they cut to him playing cards...again.

[txhorns79]

Quote

This episode I think really captured his pettiness and entitlement and basic foolishness (aka stupidty).

In fairness, the entire Royal Family has been portrayed as pretty darn entitled.  I mean, look at the QM and QE2 acting as though the sky had fallen because they had to meet non-aristocratic people for 15 minutes at an event.  And honestly, with the flashback of the QM, King and Churchill conspiring to hide the Duke of Windsor's actions during the war because it could bring down the entire family.  I don't say that to excuse anything the Duke did, but I do think the family has had its share of entitled behavior and bad acts.

As for the Duke's actual actions before and after the war, I don't know.  I do think he was a Nazi-sympathizer or at least, didn't really care about what they were doing, but I also can believe that the Germans made sure to interpret his actions in the worst possible way for propaganda purposes.  He certainly deserved to be shunned, but I think the reality was that the family became more accepting of him during the 60s, rather than the "you are now dead to us, again" attitude that QE2 seemed to take during the episode.       

[PeterPirate]

26 minutes ago, ChattyKathy said:

"That standing against Nazis gets you laid is not the worst moral I've ever heard, to be honest." This should be the theme of 2018.

I hate Nazis.

[PeterPirate]

Just now, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, the entire Royal Family has been portrayed as pretty darn entitled.  I mean, look at the QM and QE2 acting as though the sky had fallen because they had to meet non-aristocratic people for 15 minutes at an event.  And honestly, with the flashback of the QM, King and Churchill conspiring to hide the Duke of Windsor's actions during the war because it could bring down the entire family.  I don't say that to excuse anything the Duke did, but I do think the family has had its share of entitled behavior and bad acts.

As for the Duke's actual actions before and after the war, I don't know.  I do think he was a Nazi-sympathizer or at least, didn't really care about what they were doing, but I also can believe that the Germans made sure to interpret his actions in the worst possible way for propaganda purposes.  He certainly deserved to be shunned, but I think the reality was that the family became more accepting of him during the 60s, rather than the "you are now dead to us, again" attitude that QE2 seemed to take during the episode.       

There's some difference there because we know from David's letters that he was a selfish, petty child.  The characterizations of the others seem to be embellishments at best and pure fiction at worst.   

From one documentary I learned the Germans at one point planned to kidnap him, which I don't think they would have needed to do had he been consciously cooperating with them.   In any case, the family did become more accepting of him, so I'm sure we haven't seen the last of David.  

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

As for the Duke's actual actions before and after the war, I don't know.  I do think he was a Nazi-sympathizer or at least, didn't really care about what they were doing, but I also can believe that the Germans made sure to interpret his actions in the worst possible way for propaganda purposes. 

The Nazis knew exactly how to manipulate and flatter David, as well as use all that for propaganda purposes. I'm not saying David was some innocent pawn. He was idiotic enough to throw his support to the Nazis, so he deserves all the scorn, contempt, and consequences of that.

Alex Jennings is SO GOOD as David. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Alex Jennings is SO GOOD as David. 

He seems like he is having fun with the part.  Also, he gets to dress in ridiculous costumes and attend elaborate birthday parties for dogs.  Who wouldn't love that? 

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, look at the QM and QE2 acting as though the sky had fallen because they had to meet non-aristocratic people for 15 minutes at an event. 

I didn't see it quite that way, at least on QE2's part. She had to be out meeting this and opening that, all day, most days, but at least she should count on the idea that once back at the palace (whichever one), that was a refuge and it was family (and business) only. And now, that was no longer true and it never would be again. Not that I'm weeping for her or anything, but knowing that the haven you've had is now ever-so-slightly breached is a real enough moment to take notice of.

[Runningwild]

Still having trouble reading the recaps. I can only see them when I log out. 

[dubbel zout]

38 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

at least she should count on the idea that once back at the palace (whichever one), that was a refuge and it was family (and business) only.

I get what you're saying, but those people were in the public spaces of the palace. It's not as if they were traipsing around the private living quarters. I think the private spaces in the various palaces are the only places the RF can count on as having any refuge, and even then there are a bunch of servants running in and out of the rooms. When you live above the shop, as it were, there are advantages and disadvantages. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I think it's been mentioned elsewhere, but for a little bit more about the Royal Family and  WWII, I highly recommend Princes At War, which covers all 4 of George V's (living) sons from the abdication through the war and up until Bertie's death in 1952.  The title is a bit of a play on words, with the princes being in an actual war but also at war with each other.  It helps put other things in The Crown in context, such as who Aunt Marina and the Gloucesters are.  I listened to the audiobook version and it's very good.

[dubbel zout]

I agree it's a good book! It will also make you even more irritated with David, as while Britain is fighting for its very survival, he's whining about his wife not getting the HRH and not having enough money. UGH.

[Lillith]

Jess - a little info on Lady Historian or rather the fact the actress who played her Stella Gonet who was one of the stars of the fantastic 90's British TV show The House Of Elliot (about a fashion house in 20'sBritain) which won an EMMY for costuming .Right up your street if you haven't seen it

 

As for things that Elizabeth should probably have been told this is the big one .They learned their lesson and they immediately told her when Anthony Blunt was outed as a spy which is bound to come up in the next 2 seasons - he was though allowed to stay on as her curator of art for the next 15 years as he gave up the rest of his network .Prunella Scales version of Elizabeth in A Question of Attribution snarking at him is a joy

I feel ashamed! I didn't even recognize her, and I faithfully watched House of Elliot.

And I'll repeat again both the actors portraying the Duke and Dutchess of Windsor are so good, I'd totally watch a spinoff about their lives. Even though they're Nazis.

[Roseanna]

On ‎13‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 5:23 AM, PeterPirate said:

I can see that part about David telling the Germans that continued bombing of London would lead the British to surrender as an embellishment on the part of Lascelles.  I can see him saying something during dinner like "This bombing is terrible. My people might be forced to give it up", and then having his words twisted around to make it sound like he was encouraging the Germans to keep at it.  

For one thing, whatever he said, he didn't say directly to the Germans.  Also, he had no way of knowing what was really happening in London at the time.  

The last sentence is the crux of the matter: during the WW2 Duke of Windor had no access to secret information and therefore no ability to know either the Bristish resources or public opinion.  Therefore I can't understand why Lascelles thought his opinion "the worst part" as many surely said something like that and only in dictatorship that was considered treason (although after his experience as Prince of Wales and King should have been learned not to say any opinion).

In the end, its not enough to have information, its value must be estimated. There was no reason for the Germans to believe that the Duke's opinion was valuable - unless they believed what they wanted to believe.  

Edited December 14, 2017 by Roseanna
correcting grammar

[Runningwild]

I recommend watching Edward VIII The Nazi King. The Marburg Report, or the American version, agrees with Lascelles version of events. 

[Bama]

On 12/11/2017 at 0:21 PM, greekmom said:

Please advise which documentary this is! Thanks.

 

It's titled "Edward VIII : The Nazi King".  It's a BBC doc and it's currently on Netflix.

[greekmom]

8 hours ago, Bama said:

It's titled "Edward VIII : The Nazi King".  It's a BBC doc and it's currently on Netflix.

I checked it out. Only available on US Netflix :( Hopefully they bring it to Canada.

[Athena]

My laugh out loud moment was when Philip told Elizabeth to visit Tommy and "have a drink of human blood or whatever he drinks". Awesome. I love them using Philip as a snarker because he is on record about making terrible remarks. At least, they are using it for entertainment and it works mostly.

I do agree that the show has a weakness of not actually showing Elizabeth's character thoroughly and having people (mostly white men older than her) talk to her rather than having Elizabeth be a person. I felt this episode has done a better job than some of the other eps on this front. I really liked the exploration of Elizabeth's religious and spiritual side. She also got a few zingers this episode by overruling Philip, telling him to shut up, and a few barbs at David. I think it's difficult for the show to portray a woman who is very private and probably introverted. At least this episode showcased Elizabeth as someone who really weighed an issue both personally and as the Sovereign.

Paul Sparks (Billy Graham) must be popular on Netflix as he was on House of Cards for a little too long. He did a good job here and they showed a lot of restraint with what could be have been a caricature.

I feel that Windsor/David was delusional and incredibly selfish. He was out of touch with everyone but even if he didn't know what was going on in Britain during WWII, he was ready to let the Germans have "peace". Everything he did including marrying Wallis was about self-interest and entitlement. He was an egoist and an idiot frankly. It doesn't matter what he thought of Hitler or concentration camps, he only thought they could help him and Britain (and in his mind, he and Britain were the same). I'm glad the show featured Wallis bitching at him. That's probably very true to life considering how she didn't want him to marry him in the first place, but she threw her lot in.

[anna0852]

Uncle Nazi totally creeped me out when he was talking to Elizabeth and she confronted him about the Marburg file. His way of saying that ultimately the British people would believe him and not her just seemed so icky. Here is this incredibly powerful woman and she still being gaslighted by a guy.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Athena said:

My laugh out loud moment was when Philip told Elizabeth to visit Tommy and "have a drink of human blood or whatever he drinks". Awesome. I love them using Philip as a snarker because he is on record about making terrible remarks. At least, they are using it for entertainment and it works mostly.

I love Philip as snarker too. He's usually not too wrong. I also loved it when Michael came in and said the Duke of Windsor wanted to enter the UK (or whatever it was), and Philip said, "Denied." Hee. 

[TV Diva Queen]

4 hours ago, Athena said:

My laugh out loud moment was when Philip told Elizabeth to visit Tommy and "have a drink of human blood or whatever he drinks". Awesome. I love them using Philip as a snarker because he is on record about making terrible remarks. At least, they are using it for entertainment and it works mostly.

I do agree that the show has a weakness of not actually showing Elizabeth's character thoroughly and having people (mostly white men older than her) talk to her rather than having Elizabeth be a person. I felt this episode has done a better job than some of the other eps on this front. I really liked the exploration of Elizabeth's religious and spiritual side. She also got a few zingers this episode by overruling Philip, telling him to shut up, and a few barbs at David. I think it's difficult for the show to portray a woman who is very private and probably introverted. At least this episode showcased Elizabeth as someone who really weighed an issue both personally and as the Sovereign.

Paul Sparks (Billy Graham) must be popular on Netflix as he was on House of Cards for a little too long. He did a good job here and they showed a lot of restraint with what could be have been a caricature.

I feel that Windsor/David was delusional and incredibly selfish. He was out of touch with everyone but even if he didn't know what was going on in Britain during WWII, he was ready to let the Germans have "peace". Everything he did including marrying Wallis was about self-interest and entitlement. He was an egoist and an idiot frankly. It doesn't matter what he thought of Hitler or concentration camps, he only thought they could help him and Britain (and in his mind, he and Britain were the same). I'm glad the show featured Wallis bitching at him. That's probably very true to life considering how she didn't want him to marry him in the first place, but she threw her lot in.

HBO must like him too, he was Mickey on Broadwalk Empire.  Love this actor.

[dubbel zout]

Fun fact: He's married to Annie Parisse (a.k.a. ADA Alexandra Borgia). Funner fact: Her brother is married to Elisabeth Waterston!

[Humbugged]

On 12/11/2017 at 10:30 PM, Lillith said:

The concentration camp is a British invention. They used them during the Boer war, so many people found them acceptable. Like prison camps. This in no way give Uncle Nazi a pass and I believe Wallis Simpson was an anti-Semite but I just wanted to mention it for context. As awful as they were, the actors are so engaging I'd almost like to see a spinoff covering their lives. 

Not historically accurate .

The US used them in the Indian Wars and then the Spanish used them in Cuba in The War of Independence

[Quilt Fairy]

I know they're changing out Claire Foy and Matt Smith in the next series, but I really hope they keep Alex Jennings as the Duke of Windsor.  I can't imagine anyone doing the role better than he does, and the actor is old enough that he won't be hard to age.

[Cheezwiz]

10 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I know they're changing out Claire Foy and Matt Smith in the next series, but I really hope they keep Alex Jennings as the Duke of Windsor.  I can't imagine anyone doing the role better than he does, and the actor is old enough that he won't be hard to age.

Agreed. He's absolutely perfect in that role.

[dubbel zout]

I wonder how much more of the Windsors we'll see. Elizabeth put the kibosh on his desire to come back to work, and that never changed. She did allow him to return to London a few times for medical and private family reasons, but for the most part, David and Wallis spent the rest of their lives going to parties. We might get a scene or two out of their deaths—there's not much else to show regarding those two.

[ProudMary]

13 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I know they're changing out Claire Foy and Matt Smith in the next series, but I really hope they keep Alex Jennings as the Duke of Windsor.  I can't imagine anyone doing the role better than he does, and the actor is old enough that he won't be hard to age.

Similarly, I hope they retain Greg Wise as Lord Mountbatten. Also older and not difficult to age.  Very good casting there.

[locomoco]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:04 AM, MissLucas said:

If we could travel back to pre-war times in a Tardis we would have a rude awakening at the number of people who were willing to put up with the Nazis as bulwark against communism.

Perhaps Prince Philip did that, and that's why he was so against letting come back to visit.

[MissLucas]

56 minutes ago, locomoco said:

Perhaps Prince Philip did that, and that's why he was so against letting come back to visit.

He! I see what you did there!

[Lillith]

On 12/14/2017 at 8:41 AM, greekmom said:

I checked it out. Only available on US Netflix :( Hopefully they bring it to Canada.

There's also a BBC doc on Netflix called the Royal House of Windsor. It's a series and it's pretty good so far. And covers some of the same things we see in the series. They gloss over a bit but that's to be expected I suppose. 

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

Similarly, I hope they retain Greg Wise as Lord Mountbatten. Also older and not difficult to age.  Very good casting there.

Wow! I didn't even realize that was Greg Wise as Mountbatten! He's aged, and I am still picturing him in my head as Mr. Willoughby! He really does resemble Mountbatten, and as others have pointed out, we're not likely to see more of Edward & Wallis, but Mountbatten will undoubtably be appearing in future seasons. Hope they keep him as well - he's at just the right age where he can span several time periods.

Looked up photos of the real Louis Mountbatten - a very handsome devil.

[merylinkid]

People who were once the Duke of Windsor's subjects were dying at the hands of the Nazis.   All he could think of was getting his crown back.   A crown he never really wanted.   He wanted the perks and the attention.   He didn't want the duties.   

Screw Billy Graham and his "you have to forgive."   Pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have forgiven a Nazi either.   Just sayin'