S08.E06: The King, the Widow, and Rick

[BellyLaughter]

I am so impressed that Rosita is able to have a continuous supply of lip filler in the apocalypse — and more impressed by her no hesitation use of a rocket launcher!  Talking and small lips be damned!! 

[Star Aristille]

Aaron and Enid are kind of an odd coupling.  But I can dig it.  I like new pairings and groupings.

That woman, Zia, was black, right?  Negan has black Saviors, too?

As much as I agree with Maggie's choice to lock Gregory up with the Saviors, he was right about one thing.  It would be smarter to kill them instead.  Jesus was really annoying me with his obvious desperation to keep them alive.

I hope Siddiq is actually a good guy.  Every now and then, it helps to introduce new heroes, not just new villains.

I don't get the problem with all the dialogue.  It's based on a comic book series, people.  There's dialogue galore in those.  Plus, dialogue helps with character and relationship development.  That's all there is to it.

Pretty okay episode, in my book.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Star Aristille

[Smad]

6 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

The steady dumbing down of Michonne really bothers me.  Michonne used to be the ultimate bad-ass.  She's the one who said 'my shit has always been together'.  Is fucking Rick turning her into a moron?  Is THAT what happened to Lori?  Is Gimple afraid that a strong Michonne would make Rick look weak?  Because Rick's doing that all on his own.  Rick is looking like a total idiot without any help from anyone.  Going to the trash heap to try and convince those assholes to switch sides is one of the stupidest things Rick has ever done and he's in the Stupid Hall of Fame.  What's the point of recruiting allies that you can't afford to trust?   Maggie's going working through that same issue with her prisoners.

I'm hoping that being a founding member of The Don't Give a Fuck club will help Michonne get her groove back.  It's a shame to see a great character diminished like this.

It had to happen eventually. Rick is the main character. It's not so much that he has to be the bigger badass (there are several women alone who are bigger badasses)but that Michonne takes a backseat in most cases. She was never going to be an equal (Rick is the only main character). I've never wanted Rick and Michonne together for exactly that reason, that and I have seen what they have done with most romantic/sexual relationships on this show. Michonne has been the mother more than she has been the warrior. And while mothers can be warriors too, that seems to be a simple concept the writers don't understand. So now that she's been out of the action for this whole Season (actor reasons I know), they had to quickly come up with something to give her. That that completely violates her character and who she is should also be no surprise. This Season has already so much stupidity in it, what's a bit more character nonsense? Just look at this episode.

[ghoulina]

I'm about to lose my mind over these hostage Saviors. I can handwave a lot of shit on this show. But this.....this is getting ridiculous. Keeping them lined up outside the gates??? So not only are you wasting a ton of man power on watching them, but you've got half your people outside the gates, possibly attracting walkers or being prime targets for any other Saviors that come by. Stupid stupid stupid. Then Maggie decides to bring them all INSIDE, where there are women and young children. And let's give away half our food while we're at it! 

I get the hostage exchange idea, but....A. do you need THAT many hostages? And B. Do you really think Negan cares about any of those people? 

Also, how many times is that long haired bastard going to try and escape/attack before someone finally puts him down? 

This is turning into the Randall (God, I miss the early seasons) situation times 50. The longer they wait, the worse it gets. 

 

Speaking of the early seasons, I (the lone Lori fan) loved Carl's callback to his mom and her dying wish for him to do the right thing. I like that he's trying to help Siddiq. I have ALWAYS loved the concept of killing walkers to basically put them out of their misery and let your former loved ones (or someone else's loved ones) be free. But that scuffle those two had with...what? Six walkers? Pathetic. Let's not forget in season 4 that Carl ruthlessly mowed down an entire herd and saved his father's life. Now he's weakly struggling against two of them? Give me a fucking break. 

Would some walker continuity be too much to ask. 

 

I was glad to see Michonne again! And can we just put Rosita in charge of everything from now on? No long speeches, just blow a dude to smithereens. 

 

I don't ship people on this show because TPTB have a horrible tendency to ruin characters once they get a love interest. But just person-to-person, I loved Carole telling Zeke she sees him as a real person. Gah. Best scenes between those two. 

But....is that smartass little kid that's following her around the brother of the Tron Knight that got killed by the Savior and basically catapulted Zeke into getting involved? I used to be a lot better at keeping up with characters on this show, I swear. At any rate, watch out, kid. She has a bad track record with youngins. 

 

Rick. Are you fucking stupid???? I love me some Rick Grimes, but why? Why would he go back to GPK? Why would you ever trust them again? He just shows up alone and they say "no" and now he's captured and no one is coming to save him? I know Rick would never really do some dumb shit like that. I see this as simply a way to stall out the season for whatever they're planning to do with the mid-season finale. This show has become all about big stunts for episode 8 and 16 and a bunch of BS filler until then. Formulaic as hell. 

[trashtvaddict]

I feel like they *might* be setting the stage for some sexual tension between Rick and Jadis.

-During that end-of-last-season fight - Jadis: "I'll lie with him when this is over"[sic - I can't recall the exact words], and if I recall correctly Rick said nothing, Michonne said, "We should get back to work.." and then Rick said, "Yeah." ....

-When we first see the GPK last night, Jadis and someone else look to be wearing only some kind of apron, then when she addresses Rick she's back in grey/black.

- Jadis: "I shot you." Rick: "No, you grazed me." x2, then Rick says, "If you had shot me I'd still be mad at you."

I hope I am wrong...

[ghoulina]

10 hours ago, Red Fields said:

I fell asleep before it ended. Naked Rick?

If Jadis starts playing "Easy Street", I riot. 

[ghoulina]

10 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I didn't get that impression, but I've always thought that Carl is the only one 100% guaranteed to survive in the end.  He's John Connor.

Agreed. Carl ain't going anywhere. 

I actually thought I saw a zed chomp on Siddiq's arm. But maybe all he got was a little, fabric tease. 

2 hours ago, dwarmed said:

Was the A written on Rick’s cage supposed to mean that some of the garbage people were at Terminus or were the writers just being cute? If the latter, lame. 

Yea, I didn't get that at all. That dumb little shit that got his entire family killed at ASZ also stamped "A"s on everybody, so who fucking knows what they were going for?

2 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I don't get the problem with all the dialogue.  It's based on a comic book series, people.  There's dialogue galore in those.  Plus, dialogue helps with character and relationship development.  That's all there is to it.

But this isn't a comic book. It's a television series. What works in one does not always work in another. You can use the story as a basic outline, but not do everything EXACTLY how Kirkman did it in his precious comic. 

[Gobi]

I was hoping that Jadis would say "The stupid is strong with this one."

I know the show is vague about where everything is in relation to other locations, but shouldn't the GPK have noticed some of those explosions and gunfire? They are Negan's ally, after all, and should be curious about what's going on. Even if they don't consider themselves to be anyone's ally, the sound of warfare should pique their interest.

[peach]

3 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

As much as I agree with Maggie's choice to lock Gregory up with the Saviors, he was right about one thing.  It would be smarter to kill them instead.  Jesus was really annoying me with his obvious desperation to keep them alive.

I would rather keep Gregory as an adviser than Paul.  (I want to call him Paul because I feel like the show is goading us to say negative things about Jesus! ha)  Paul's notion of a good idea is to line your perimeter with the enemy.

1 hour ago, trashtvaddict said:

I feel like they *might* be setting the stage for some sexual tension between Rick and Jadis.

-During that end-of-last-season fight - Jadis: "I'll lie with him when this is over"[sic - I can't recall the exact words], and if I recall correctly Rick said nothing, Michonne said, "We should get back to work.." and then Rick said, "Yeah." ....

-When we first see the GPK last night, Jadis and someone else look to be wearing only some kind of apron, then when she addresses Rick she's back in grey/black.

- Jadis: "I shot you." Rick: "No, you grazed me." x2, then Rick says, "If you had shot me I'd still be mad at you."

I hope I am wrong...

Everything about this storyline feels like a thumb in our eye.

[peach]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I can't stop thinking about Carl. Was he bitten by that second walker that went for his ribcage? There was a lot of blood there and he seemed odd after. Maybe I am reading too much into it.

This has the feel of a Glenn and the Dumpster gimmick, since they seem to be rehashing all their clever plotlines.  It would be horrible if Carl got killed, but for him to go out by random walker bite would be unforgivable.

[TigerLynx]

4 minutes ago, peach said:

Everything about this storyline feels like a thumb in our eye.

Yes, it does.

When Carol said kids who run off in the woods end up dead or come back as monsters, I knew she was talking about Sophia.  I didn't need Carol going on and on about it.  This just confirms for me all the other yakking is nothing but filler so the writers can drag things out.  Since Carol is back in the game, she needs to pull a Terminus on the Savior's Compound, and stop wasting time with Zeke.

Daryl, Michonne, Rosita and Tara are going back in that building and getting the rocket launcher and other weapons right?  They aren't just going to stroll over to the main Savior Compound and do nothing but look and talk right?  I really need for them to take out Negan ASAP.

Maggie should have shot long haired Savior guy, and then told the rest of the prisoners, "This is what happens if you don't follow the rules."  I hope that Savior idiot saying they won't kill us is foreshadowing to Maggie doing exactly that - again ASAP.

[candall]

5 minutes ago, peach said:

...  It would be horrible if Carl got killed, but for him to go out by random walker bite would be unforgivable.

By all rights, he should have gone out by random walker bite there.  That whole incident was so stupid.  When you know enough to go quietly through the woods because there's no telling how many walkers are around, why go out of your way to engage a couple of walkers who pose no threat?  I saw plenty of opportunity for the walker on top of Carl to turn his head and chomp Carl's arm, and the second walker could easily have dropped on Carl's leg for a fresh 'n tasty snack.

Carl only survived thanks to his Main Character Teflon.

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I'm about to lose my mind over these hostage Saviors. I can handwave a lot of shit on this show. But this.....this is getting ridiculous. Keeping them lined up outside the gates??? So not only are you wasting a ton of man power on watching them, but you've got half your people outside the gates, possibly attracting walkers or being prime targets for any other Saviors that come by. Stupid stupid stupid. Then Maggie decides to bring them all INSIDE, where there are women and young children. And let's give away half our food while we're at it! 

None of it makes a lick of sense except for obviously setting up the Saviors to eventually bust out of their DIY prison and do something likely terrible to the Hilltoppers so Jesus can learn a Big Lesson about being merciful to people who don't deserve it.  All those lingering shots on the widely spaced barbed wire weren't lost on me.  Sure, barbed wire can really mess you up, unless say, you're also penned in with someone you don't care about at all getting cut to ribbons when you push or throw them through it to take down the fence.  But I'm sure Maggie "I was raised on a fahhhhm" has already considered that, right?  right?  when expressing her disgust that Gregory wasn't mounting a one-man resistance against the Saviors he can't escape.

I just can't even with Rick and the garbage people anymore.  As silly as so many things on this show have been, it launches into a whole new stratosphere of ridiculousness every time they appear on screen and every time Rick goes back to them thinking this time will be different and he'll find them reasonable people who can be swayed to his side.  There's a certain symmetry to all of our other characters going "Plan, what plan?" and rushing off to do whatever the hell they want the moment he trots off to go messing with these idiots and getting himself locked inside another container with a big A on the side for his trouble.

Maybe it wasn't what they were going for in the Carl-Siddaq scenes, but Carl talking about how sometimes children have to diverge from their parents felt like even he is acknowledging that Rick has slipped several rungs down the crazy ladder and probably isn't coming back and that's not the world he wants to inherit.  Or as heavyhanded as this show can be in letting no good deed go unpunished, it's yet another drawing from the same tired Rick may be crazy and filthy but he's always right well that will result in something terrible happening to Carl or someone Carl loves.  I hope not.  I hope Siddaq is exactly what he appears to be .  Not everybody the show introduces can be yet another flavor of evil asshole or what's the point?  Part of why I've loved Ezekiel so much even when he's been at his most Master Thespian is because underneath it he's been basically a good person trying to do the necessary thing to keep other people going.

Carol and Ezekiel almost feel like they're on a different better show in their lovely scene acknowledging seeing through the "character" they're each playing to the real person beneath.  That may have been the gentlest get your mopey ass up and let's get moving pep talk ever.

[Ohwell]

10 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I'm hoping that being a founding member of The Don't Give a Fuck club will help Michonne get her groove back.  It's a shame to see a great character diminished like this.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but girlfriend also needs a bath and a hair washing.  Rosita looked much cleaner. 

[mightysparrow]

4 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm sorry to have to say this, but girlfriend also needs a bath and a hair washing.  Rosita looked much cleaner. 

I thought it was just me!  Girl was looking a bit ASHY!  I tried to put it down to the fact that she's been recovering from the beating she got and you don't always worry about hygiene at times like that (I do; I've taken a shower the day after surgery but I don't like being stank!).  But Michonne has ALWAYS had her look together, so I don't know what's going on. 

Danai is VERY protective of Michonne so this might be a sign that she's basically checked out and moved on to greener pastures.  Maybe all this Trash People bullshit is setting Rick up with Jadis.  All I can say is, he deserves her.

[Ohwell]

Maybe Michonne is tired of Rick and is trying to stank herself away from him.  True, he's looking kinda greasy himself but that makes him perfect for Jadis.   

[mightysparrow]

4 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Maybe Michonne is tired of Rick and is trying to stank herself away from him.  True, he's looking kinda greasy himself but that makes him perfect for Jadis.   

I'd be very happy if that was the case.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I don't get the problem with all the dialogue.  It's based on a comic book series, people.  There's dialogue galore in those.  Plus, dialogue helps with character and relationship development.  That's all there is to it.

Typically dialogue occurs when two people have a conversation, not one person constantly monologuing while the other person listens and never gets to respond to endless nonsensical babble. And the show is an adaption of the comic, not a replication of the comic. Unfortunately since season 7, the show has apparently forgotten this which is why Negan, the Saviors, and Zeke/the Kingdom come off as caricatures rather than characters.

Edited November 27, 2017 by SimoneS

[Gobi]

Who is that Tara and Daryll (Taryll?) want to kill? They were talking about Dwight, but that seems a bit harsh considering how he has helped them. Is it Negan?

[nodorothyparker]

6 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Who is that Tara and Daryll (Taryll?) want to kill? They were talking about Dwight, but that seems a bit harsh considering how he has helped them. Is it Negan?

They do want to kill Dwight, you know, after he finishes helping them and isn't useful to them anymore.  Tara because Dwight shot Denise while aiming at Daryl and Daryl for the whole "Easy Street" escapade.

[ghoulina]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

They do want to kill Dwight, you know, after he finishes helping them and isn't useful to them anymore.  Tara because Dwight shot Denise while aiming at Daryl and Daryl for the whole "Easy Street" escapade.

I like Dwight. I hope he kills Tara instead. I would have said Daryl, but Daryl has been less mopey and more ruthless again this season. So he's back in my good graces. For now.

[Gobi]

6 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

They do want to kill Dwight, you know, after he finishes helping them and isn't useful to them anymore.  Tara because Dwight shot Denise while aiming at Daryl and Daryl for the whole "Easy Street" escapade.

My recollection is a bit hazy, but I thought Dwight did what little he could to ameliorate the  situation for Daryll when he was on Easy Street.

[nodorothyparker]

The show has spent more time developing Dwight and why he is where he is than it ever spent on Tara's romance with Dr. Denise.  Plus, while I've never minded Tara as a good humored everyman sort of B character, she doesn't work and the actress doesn't have the ability for her to be any more than that.  I don't have any strong feelings on Dwight either way.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

5 hours ago, dwarmed said:

Was the A written on Rick’s cage supposed to mean that some of the garbage people were at Terminus or were the writers just being cute? If the latter, lame. 

I assume that when the Garbage Pail Kids lost the majority of their vocabulary, they also forgot most of the alphabet.  So "A" is the only letter Jadis, queen of brevity, remembers how to write. 

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, dwarmed said:

Was the A written on Rick’s cage supposed to mean that some of the garbage people were at Terminus or were the writers just being cute? If the latter, lame. 

I assumed Jadis was simply rating Rick’s ass - lots of good cardio opportunities in the ZA, after all....

Edited November 27, 2017 by Nashville
Typo

[mightysparrow]

I can understand why Tara and Daryl are gunning for Dwight.  Her relationship with Denise was the best thing about Tara and I really enjoyed her interactions with Daryl.  But if anyone should be able to understand Dwight's situation, it should be Tara.  She rode in with the Governor and stood by while he hacked Hershel's head off.  And Daryl knows Dwight's story and what he's had to endure with Negan.  Besides, they all thought Eugene was a good guy.

I'm not 100% on the Dwight train yet; I still don't trust the guy.  And I support Team Don't Give a Fuck.  But I think Daryl and Tara would be better served dealing trying to reconcile with the Oceanside community and making sure Negan's ass STAYED kicked.

[ShadowSixx]

I don't know why they're keeping long haired Jared alive. He tried escaping twice, well three if you count him rubbing the rock against the rope. He tried during the circus act of the tumbling walkers and tried grabbing that woman's gun. Maybe if Jesus or Maggie make an example out of him to the other Savior hostages. They can't see that Jared can't be trusted and he's going to kill the minute opportunity strikes. They don't think he's going to try and find numerous ways of escaping? If I was Maggie, I would have just shot him but Jared needs to be heavily restrained, like being put in Morgan's makeshift prison cell. Jared better get a brutal death. He killed Benjamin so that alone deserves a brutal death.

Out of all the Saviors, I'm only interested in is Simon (I like Steven Ogg and his interactions w/Greg are fun to watch) and the guy who goes to the Kingdom to pick up the food. The one who doesn't want any trouble, I don't know his name. I don't trust Dwight at all plus had an innocent doctor killed.

[peach]

45 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I can understand why Tara and Daryl are gunning for Dwight.  Her relationship with Denise was the best thing about Tara and I really enjoyed her interactions with Daryl.  But if anyone should be able to understand Dwight's situation, it should be Tara.  She rode in with the Governor and stood by while he hacked Hershel's head off.  And Daryl knows Dwight's story and what he's had to endure with Negan.  Besides, they all thought Eugene was a good guy.

And Daryl would do well to remember when CDB had to accept Merle into their group.

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I'm sorry to have to say this, but girlfriend also needs a bath and a hair washing.  Rosita looked much cleaner. 

This is bound to happen to anyone who hangs out with Rick and Daryl to long.  Even Carl's amazing flowing tresses hair is starting to look little stringy and greasy.

I realize several of the characters have gone off reservation, and aren't following the Plan anymore, but what were they going to do when they returned to the Savior Compound.  Rick didn't want Daryl to use the dynamite to finish them off so were they going to make another offer of only Negan has to die, and the rest of you can live if you get past the Walkers?

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

I was hoping that Jadis would say "The stupid is strong with this one."

The stupid is strong with Rick.  And has been for a long time now. 

But Rick's argument with Jadis ,downplaying the abuse he and his gang suffered by Jadis et al, did bring him to a new level of stupid.  

Jadis - "I shot you."

Rick- "It was only a graze."

Jadis - "We killed your people."

Rick - "We killed yours as well."

Is Rick a zombie?  Honestly I think if a scan was done of his brain - it would show no brain waves.

Even Daryl decided the best course of action was to beat Rick up.

Whatever Daryl's plan is - I believe it will work -as Rick is now locked in a small container.  Where he belongs.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Also, how many times is that long haired bastard going to try and escape/attack before someone finally puts him down? 

When Maggie had Goldilocks on the ground and her rifle aimed at his head, my immediate thought was, “Finally!!!”  The setup was perfect for Maggie to say, “And if y’all give us any any trouble like THIS, you get THIS” - and brain-bullet that bitch.  I was so disappointed.

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And can we just put Rosita in charge of everything from now on? No long speeches, just blow a dude to smithereens. 

No argument here.  Rosita is back up in my Top Six again.

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But....is that smartass little kid that's following her around the brother of the Tron Knight that got killed by the Savior and basically catapulted Zeke into getting involved?

Yes, Henry is the younger brother of Benjamin, the Kingdom warrior killed by Goldilocks - and that little shit is bucking hardcore to be the next entree at the Zombie Buffet.  Run into a walker and start hitting him in the knees with a stick!?!?  Henry is on his knees simply SCREAMING to be walker chow.

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Rick. Are you fucking stupid???? I love me some Rick Grimes, but why? Why would he go back to GPK? Why would you ever trust them again? He just shows up alone and they say "no" and now he's captured and no one is coming to save him? I know Rick would never really do some dumb shit like that. I see this as simply a way to stall out the season for whatever they're planning to do with the mid-season finale. This show has become all about big stunts for episode 8 and 16 and a bunch of BS filler until then. Formulaic as hell. 

Because the writers created a whole other group out of thin air and had the ASZhats arm them, only to be betrayed by them.  

Which means the writers now have an armed group of hostiles sitting on the edges of their little brushfire war, and absolutely no fucking clue what to do with them.

Now, a reasonable person would say, “The GPKs have shown themselves to be at best untrustworthy allies, and at worst armed attackers.  No truce or alliance would work with them, because they have demonstrated as clearly as possible they cannot, SHOULD not, be trusted to keep their word under any circumstances.  As soon as we can get to a point of stabilized finality with the Saviors, the best thing to do would be to surround them en masse, get back as many of the guns we gave them as we can, and exterminate the little junkyard rats.  And if they go to ground in their little trash heap tunnels, fine - just gas up some bulldozers from our Simply Amazing Neverending Good Fuel Supply and take them for a roll in their own scrap metal.  Then, for good measure, maybe burn the entire dump.  Traitorous problem solved.”

Unfortunately, the only thing Rick and Reasonable have in common is a starting letter.  :P

[BetyBee]

I thought that putting Gregory in the pen with the Saviors was a sham.  Jesus said that Gregory was making nice with them (or something like that).  And Gregory was totally listening to Jared talking to the maybe redeemable maybe not guy who sounds a little like Ed Burns (to me).  I think this is Gregory's opportunity to redeem himself by playing for the good guys.  When he was at the table with Negan, he looked shocked at the violence being proposed for the Hilltop.  I think he's back with the good guys, which probably means he'll soon die a heroic death.  

I think if Tara & Daryl go rogue and kill Dwight, they will ruin whatever "brilliant" plan Rick has in mind.  And I hate the GPK!

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Darryl could take lessons from Saddiq on how to look somewhat attractive even while really dirty during the zombie apocalypse. I think Jesus is still the prettiest, but he looks like he at least wipes his face clean every couple days.

Edited November 27, 2017 by MVFrostsMyPie
fixed an incorrect homonym!

[iMonrey]

This was a good episode in that we got Michonne, Carl, Tara, and mostly everyone else back this week with no Negan. It had some great moments too, like Rosita blowing up that guy and the garbage truck hitting the truck with the sound equipment. I also rather enjoyed the quieter scenes with Carl and Siddiq. Unfortunately, when you pick it apart it doesn't make much sense, and that's been a consistent problem with this show for the past couple of seasons.

What exactly is the plan for the sanctuary now that it's surrounded and no help can come from the satellite stations? What "hostages" does Maggie think they might need to trade for? All of their own people are accounted for one way or another, and presumably the people inside the sanctuary aren't going anywhere. WTH does Rick even need the junkyard people for at this point?

How on earth did Daryl manage to t-bone that other truck so perfectly? Was he waiting at the cross-street until the truck was within view? Talk about perfect timing. How did he even know about these people? Did he hear the music too and figure out what was going on? Or was it just a coincidence he was driving by at the exact right moment? They really needed to explain this better, but it seems like all the show cares about are creating surprising "big" moments like this whether they make any sense or not.

And the junkyard people . . . I just can't with this. If the show had decided to never mention them again and pretend like they never happened I would have been more than willing to go along with it. Instead they double down on this idiocy. Why? They have to know how much the audience hates this crap. Sometimes writers can get hung up on a bad idea because their Twitter followers obsessively stroke their massive egos, but I don't even think that's the case in this situation. I cannot fathom one single audience member enjoying this moronic plot point. It's as though the writers are so stung by the criticism they want to keep shoving these people down our throats until we submit to their will and accept their creation. It ain't happening. 

When they showed that overhead shot of the junkyard people in a swirl formation around Rick, and they parted so Rick could walk into the center, it reminded me of the Whos down in Whoville when they were standing in a circle and opened a "gate" of people to allow the Grinch through on his sleigh. 

[DEL901]

 So, who exactly does Rick think is going to rescue him, Darryl?  

[SimoneS]

Given how calm Rick was when the garbage "can't speak English properly" gang took him captive, I have got to think that this is the ridiculous part of the plan.

[cmfran]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this in previous weeks, but the "Ride With Norman Reedus" commercials just knock me right out of the story.   Especially scenes of Reedus palling around with Jeffrey Dean Morgan.   It's bad enough that the story doesn't let me take Negan seriously but when you throw in  these commercials of JDM -- looking every bit like Negan -- yukking it up with Darryl, how can you possibly suspend disbelief anymore?   It's all a joke.

And speaking of commercials and stuff, will there ever come a day when we are rid of Kevin Smith?

Agreed. I'm guessing AMC will keep "Ride" going as long as the ratings are good, but it does take me out of it a bit. 

And Kevin Smith...ugh. I'm surprised he's been able to keep his schtick going for as long as he as. But now that everyone is obsessed with everything Marvel, he's got job security.

[Rachel RSL]

Oh, good. As if this season hasn't sucked enough, let's bring back the GPKs! I hate them so very much. Why the hell do they talk like that?? It's only been, what, 3 or 4 years since the start of the ZA, did they just wake up one day and decide they didn't know how to speak english anymore? It's so freaking annoying. I'd rather have Negan's neverending speechifying over that crap.

What happened to Jesus? Remember when he had super ninja skills and stole the truck of food from Rick and Daryl? Now he's all about holding hands and singing kumbaya.  I liked Jesus, stop ruining characters, show!

Edited November 27, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, peach said:

And Daryl would do well to remember when CDB had to accept Merle into their group.

I am not buying the comparison. Rick and the others put up with Merle because they were so happy that Daryl came back to them. Rick even told Daryl that Merle was his responsibility. There isn't anyone around who gives a toss about Dwight and rightly so.

Dwight and everyone of those Saviors (except for the women Negan is raping and any children) should be mowed down in a hail of bullets without a second thought. I am including Eugene with whom I have lost all patience. However, as the season is progressing Kirkman who thinks that he is oh so clever is clearly he doing all he can to keep most of them alive. What sense does it make to capture or imprison all those people in your compound? The danger of keeping them alive, sucking up resources to guard and feed them, outweighs any benefits that they could possibility have alive as hostages. And to paraphrase @ghoulina above, when has Negan ever shown that he gives a fuck about any of them?  And the captured saviors could team up, break out of prison, and kill everyone at the Hilltop. Now I think about it, as long as Maggie and Cal live I don't care about any the Hilltoppers so this would be a good thing.  It all just needs to stop.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by SimoneS

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

When Maggie had Goldilocks on the ground and her rifle aimed at his head, my immediate thought was, “Finally!!!”  The setup was perfect for Maggie to say, “And if y’all give us any any trouble like THIS, you get THIS” - and brain-bullet that bitch.  I was so disappointed.

You and me both. I think I outwardly groaned when all she did was knock him out with the butt of her gun. LAME. 

 

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Yes, Henry is the younger brother of Benjamin, the Kingdom warrior killed by Goldilocks - and that little shit is bucking hardcore to be the next entree at the Zombie Buffet.  Run into a walker and start hitting him in the knees with a stick!?!?  Henry is on his knees simply SCREAMING to be walker chow.

Thank you! I couldn't even remember Benjamin's name! And I really liked him. Okay, well, that makes sense - as to why he seems quite familiar with Carol and was running around with a Morganesque stick. 

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

How on earth did Daryl manage to t-bone that other truck so perfectly? Was he waiting at the cross-street until the truck was within view? Talk about perfect timing.

It was all his time spent on Easy Street. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

It's only been, what, 3 or 4 years since the start of the ZA, did they just wake up one day and decide they didn't know how to speak english anymore? 

You know, they could actually fix this, if they revealed this was some strange cult that sprang up as a result of the ZA - kind of like the people on The Leftovers who never speak and smoke all the time. That never made any sense either, but whatever. Cults are weird like that. But . . . what they cannot fix is Rick's reaction to these people. Or anyone else's. Somebody needs to say "Why the hell are they talking like that?" 

Quote

What sense does it make to capture or imprison all those people in your compound? The danger of keeping them alive, sucking up resources to guard and feed them, outweighs any benefits that they could possibility have alive as hostages. 

What really irks me is that the show isn't making a strong enough distinction from The Saviors and The Workers. It's entirely possible a lot of The Workers would gladly turn on The Saviors if they had a better option. That right there is enough of a moral conflict to base these arguments around. But the show isn't really doing that. 

Another thing that bugged me this episode - when Rosita and Michonne were staking out that warehouse and that Savior started to whistle (and all you could see were his boots) I groaned out loud because I thought Negan had somehow made his way there. But it wasn't Negan so . . . why the hell would he be whistling? What's the point of alerting your opponent to your exact position? That doesn't even make sense. I guess we're supposed to be all "oooh . . . whistling! Scary!" But - no. Just a dumb thing to do in that situation.

Edited November 27, 2017 by iMonrey

[talktalk]

7 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I think Jesus is still the prettiest, but he looks like he at least wipes his face clean every couple days.

So true. Didn't Jesus imply that he is gay? or did I misread his words? Aaron is not bad either, maybe they can get together. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by talktalk

[ShadowSixx]

Jesus told Maggie about his boyfriends. Don't think Aaron will be in a mad dash to enter into another relationship since losing Eric.

[Iguessnot]

I have no idea what is going on. I feel that when the season ends, I'll be forced to re-watch to figure out what this "plan" was. What was with all the notes being passed in the beginning? The narrations were ominous. They spoke of everything that is happening as past tense, and all seeming to go wrong.  However things aren't suspenseful. They just don't make sense so I'm just discarding things rather than piecing things together.

By the way, how did the walkers climb the stairs at the Sanctuary?

Love Gregory. He does sniveling so well.

I have no patience for this prisoner storyline. I'm almost rooting for the Saviors to kill CDB for allowing this stupidity.

[peach]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I am not buying the comparison. Rick and the others put up with Merle because they were so happy that Daryl came back to them. Rick even told Daryl that Merle was his responsibility. There isn't anyone around who gives a toss about Dwight and rightly so.

Dwight and everyone of those Saviors (except for the women Negan is raping and any children) should be mowed down in a hail of bullets without a second thought. I am including Eugene with whom I have lost all patience. However, as the season is progressing that Kirkman who thinks that he is oh so clever is clearly he doing all he can to keep most of them alive. What sense does it make to capture or imprison all those people in your compound? The danger of keeping them alive, sucking up resources to guard and feed them, outweighs any benefits that they could possibility have alive as hostages. And to paraphrase @ghoulina above, when has Negan ever shown that he gives a fuck about any of them?  And the captured saviors could team up, break out of prison, and kill everyone at the Hilltop. Now I think about it, as long as Maggie and Cal live I don't care about any the Hilltoppers so this would be a good thing.  It all just needs to stop.  

I don't disagree.  I'm for them wiping out all the Saviors and the trash people, too, since they're Savior allies, and mostly because they are disgusting and annoying.  But Dwight is the only one who has helped them out, so I think he deserves to be spared.  He should not live in Alexandria, though.  You're right that accepting Merle had to do with keeping Daryl happy, but they also needed him to fight the Governor, so it's similar in that way.  I don't really care if they kill Dwight or not, but Daryl did expect Glenn, Maggie, and Michonne to suck it up and deal with Merle after he tried to kill Glenn.  I don't really care who gets killed or not anymore anyway, though.   I totally agree they should kill Eugene for betraying them.

Edited November 27, 2017 by peach

[Boofish]

10 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

Aaron and Enid are kind of an odd coupling.  But I can dig it.  I like new pairings and groupings.

That woman, Zia, was black, right?  Negan has black Saviors, too?

As much as I agree with Maggie's choice to lock Gregory up with the Saviors, he was right about one thing.  It would be smarter to kill them instead.  Jesus was really annoying me with his obvious desperation to keep them alive.

I hope Siddiq is actually a good guy.  Every now and then, it helps to introduce new heroes, not just new villains.

I don't get the problem with all the dialogue.  It's based on a comic book series, people.  There's dialogue galore in those.  Plus, dialogue helps with character and relationship development.  That's all there is to it.

Pretty okay episode, in my book.

Yeah I always get a kick out of "they talk too much" post. To each their own. I'm loving this season but I have a feeling I'm in the minority. I can do without the junkyard people, but I can live with them as well.

10 hours ago, Smad said:

It had to happen eventually. Rick is the main character. It's not so much that he has to be the bigger badass (there are several women alone who are bigger badasses)but that Michonne takes a backseat in most cases. She was never going to be an equal (Rick is the only main character). I've never wanted Rick and Michonne together for exactly that reason, that and I have seen what they have done with most romantic/sexual relationships on this show. Michonne has been the mother more than she has been the warrior. And while mothers can be warriors too, that seems to be a simple concept the writers don't understand. So now that she's been out of the action for this whole Season (actor reasons I know), they had to quickly come up with something to give her. That that completely violates her character and who she is should also be no surprise. This Season has already so much stupidity in it, what's a bit more character nonsense? Just look at this episode.

Michonne has always been a reckless lone wolf which is why she is always getting beat up. Can't think of a season she's been on the show and she didn't go off "Michonning" on someone. 

Season 3 she went after the governor after they were supposed to leave. Season 4 opening scene was her coming back looking for the governor. Can't remember her Michonning a mission in Season 5 but she probably did. Season 6 is how she ended up kneeling on the ground in front of Negan. Season 7 she went after Big Red with just a gun. Totally keeping in character; she just smiles more and has a reason to be happy. Before people were tired of her growling at everyone. I like seeing her happy with a reason to live. And if I needed one in a Z.A. Rick is one I could get behind (literally - that ass in jeans - YES PLEASE AND THANK YOU)

[Prairie]

2 hours ago, Boofish said:

Totally keeping in character; she just smiles more and has a reason to be happy. Before people were tired of her growling at everyone. I like seeing her happy with a reason to live. And if I needed one in a Z.A. Rick is one I could get behind (literally - that ass in jeans - YES PLEASE AND THANK YOU)

Yeah I just love Rick Grimes as portrayed by Andrew Lincoln. He's become totally batshit, but he does some sexy stuff.

[sadie]

“Don’t be a hippy dippy Kung foo friend” - best line ever. Seriously I’m hanging on by a thread. These people used to be so smart and capable and now, well I don’t know what they’re doing with these characters. 

[FishyJoe]

Are the garbage people the remnants of Arkham Asylum or something? Seriously, what the hell is up with these people? Is their life so fulfilling they have time to create art while naked? I can understand why people would follow Negan to some degree, but Jadis? Does she sleep with everyone in the camp or something? She must be really good in the sack to convince everyone to live in garbage.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, Boofish said:

Michonne has always been a reckless lone wolf which is why she is always getting beat up. Can't think of a season she's been on the show and she didn't go off "Michonning" on someone. 

Season 3 she went after the governor after they were supposed to leave. Season 4 opening scene was her coming back looking for the governor. Can't remember her Michonning a mission in Season 5 but she probably did. Season 6 is how she ended up kneeling on the ground in front of Negan. Season 7 she went after Big Red with just a gun. Totally keeping in character; she just smiles more and has a reason to be happy. Before people were tired of her growling at everyone. I like seeing her happy with a reason to live. And if I needed one in a Z.A. Rick is one I could get behind (literally - that ass in jeans - YES PLEASE AND THANK YOU)

Now, this I agree with and find hilarious. I love Michonne, but she is not someone who always has it all together. She was a mess she first arrived although she has been more emotionally stable since she befriended Carl and hooked up with Rick, probably because he is more of a mess than she is and is damn good in bed. However, Michonne going off because she had to see the Sanctuary was dumb and stubborn so it seemed pretty in character to me. She has also been on edge since Negan started his reign of terror. The only thing I find out of character is that she hasn't gone off by herself to kill him as yet.

Edited November 28, 2017 by SimoneS