S04.E08: Crisis On Earth-X (3)

[scarynikki12]

 

 

Quote

Barry and Iris’s wedding brings the gang together, but things go awry when villains from Earth-X attack the ceremony. All of the superheroes band together with help from their super friends like Citizen Cold, The Ray, Felicity Smoak, Iris West and Alex Danvers to take on their most formidable villains yet. Earth’s mightiest heroes – Green Arrow, Supergirl, The Flash and White Canary – lead their teams into battle to save the world.

 

 

 

[cambridgeguy]

Seriously folks, wear some body armor if you're going to be facing down an army of Nazis!

So the bad guys dumped the crew in the Earth X concentration camp just so they could line them up for an execution?  That seems inefficient.

[Rachel RSL]

Awwwww Snart! Why can't Wentworth Miller be in everything? His mere presence makes everything so much better.

Other than Snart though, I'm not enjoying the crossover very much. A lot of that might have to do with the fact that I don't watch Arrow, I don't want to watch Arrow, yet they keep making Arrow part of the curriculum. It's bloody annoying! I'm also having trouble keeping track of who is where. Plus, seeing all these actors together really makes the not-so-great actors stick out like a sore thumb. (Looking at you, Melissa Benoist.)

I really need to stop overthinking this show. I just kept thinking, after he got the cuffs off, couldn't Barry just superspeed around and take out all the Nazis in a matter of seconds? 

But, most of all, I'm beyond annoyed that Barry and Iris didn't have their wedding. Not because I care about them as a couple, I'm just so sick of hearing about the damn wedding! (This is also my reaction to real-life weddings too. Ugh!) Couldn't the Nazis have attacked at the reception?!

Edited November 29, 2017 by Rachel RSL
Removed the big ass picture since it's not needed anymore.

[KirkB]

Yeah, I'm no supervillain, but I'm pretty sure if I had enemies I was planning to kill anyway I would kill them while they were unconscious and helpless rather than bundling them up and sending them to another world first.

[bmoore4026]

Jax's comment on what the stars and triangles, especially the pink triangles, meant rankled me a bit.  He should have known this shit back in high school.  Maybe I'm being a overly sensitive gay dude?

All I know is that this Ray dude better stick around and better not be a one off.  Not enough (male) gay superheroes around, which is ironic, so having him around is nice.

Edited December 1, 2017 by bmoore4026
I remembered his name

[DearEvette]

16 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Other than Snart though, I'm not enjoying the crossover very much. A lot of that might have to do with the fact that I don't watch Arrow, I don't want to watch Arrow, yet they keep making Arrow part of the curriculum.

Ha!  This makes me laugh because this is me.  This is why Part 2 didn't work as well for me because it felt too steeped i Arrowdom.  And, to be honest, so did this one.  Overall I am enjoying the heck out of the crossover, but since I don't care about Oliver and Felicity at all, their love angst isn't resonating with me and I get impatient watching them.  I am liking the Jax/Stein subplot though.   But I admit I am lowkey mad that the Flash episode is very light on the Flash.  Although I did enjoy the Iris and Felicity team up. And the arrival of Ray and the Legends at the end perked me up a lot.

[benteen]

The first half was better but this crossover was still great fun.

Paul Blackthorne does a good job as a Nazi villain here.  Russell Tovey was terrific as Ray and Miller is great fun as always.

Want to talk about bad acting?  Jeremy Jordan as Winn X.  Oof.

[thuganomics85]

OK, with respect to both Evil Nazi Oliver and Evil Nazi Kara, neither one of them has shit on Evil Nazi Quentin.  Him casually telling Sara that he killed her Earth-X doppleganger because of her sexuality, was some stone cold shit right there.  And then him "testing"  Oliver by bringing out Earth X Felicity to see if he would put her down or not.  I almost wish he was the main villain.

So basically, the gang was brought to Earth X so they can be executed (tell me why Nazi Oliver and Nazi Kara couldn't just due that on Earth 1?), but luckily for them they are saved by a resistance led by Earth X Winn (complete with a scruffy beard), some hero name The Ray played by Russell Tovey, and.... Snart!  That's right, Leonard Snart is back and Wentworth Miller is devouring the scenery like he never left!

Aww, shit!  Martin just got shot.  And he was only a few days away from retirement!

The Felicity/Iris team-up was fun, even though it was only a matter of time before they were stopped.  As brilliant and brave as both of them are, Evil Nazi Oliver and Kara, and Eobard are just one hell of a trio to outmaneuver.

No Mick automatically makes this my least favorite of the crossovers.

[Rachel RSL]

Another thing I dislike about this crossover is that I feel like certain major plot points happened on the wrong show. For example: (spoiler tagging it since I'm not sure if we can discuss the other crossover shows in other forums.)

Spoiler

After all these years of sitting through the Barry & Iris relationship, they finally got married...on another show. I'm sorry, Barry & Iris getting married shouldn't have happened on Legends of Tomorrow.  Ditto Felicity and Oliver.

[Lady Calypso]

48 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

One more thing, help me out here. Who is this guy and where have I seen him before? It's driving me bonkers trying to figure it out.

That's Paul Blackthorne. Currently, he plays Quentin Lance on Arrow.

I really enjoyed parts of this episode. But I can't stress enough how this was more of a Supergirl episode, while the Supergirl episode was more of The Flash episode. If they just switched these two particular shows around somehow, it would have been much better, as the fans of both shows would have been more satisfied. Barry barely appeared in this episode, and West-Allen didn't even really get any scenes together.

Earth X Winn, Leo, and The Ray were all so awesome. Earth X Winn, in particular, impressed me. The time Jeremy Jordan gets something to do as Winn, and it's not even on his own show. Seriously, I could go for bearded General Winn on Supergirl anytime, fingerless gloves and everything.

I don't mind Melissa Benoist and thought she did a great job at least differentiating between Kara and Overgirl. At times, it took me a few seconds to differentiate Oliver from Dark Arrow. Melissa really tried to give Evil Kara a distinction, with her look, the way she walked, plus the way she talked, accent included. Stephen, as much as I love him, has Evil Oliver a little too close to our Oliver. He's made some distinctions, but not enough. 

Earth X Quentin was scary. God, he did such a fantastic job with his role. I did laugh because I think he was trying to do an Earth X German accent, or I guess a variation of it, and with Paul being British, he's had to swap out his Quentin American accent to this Quentin Earth X German-esque accent. 

No! Not Stein!

[Rachel RSL]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's Paul Blackthorne. Currently, he plays Quentin Lance on Arrow.

Thank you!! I didn't know his name so I couldn't even go check his IMDB page. I had no clue he was on Arrow. 

[tennisgurl]

Snart! Oh, I missed you, man! Even if Leo is clearly a different guy, they certainly share a sense of fashion at least. I also liked Ray, and would be interested to know more about him. Yeah, dragging people to your death camp just to shoot them seems a little...pointless, but I guess maybe there were conflicting orders or something. 

Earth X Winn is super hot, and a little bit scary. I wish Supergirl would give Jeremy Jordan more to do, because he clearly has serious acting chops. All he has gotten to do all season is type at his computer and make quips, with a few breaks to support Kara in her boy trouble. 

Speaking of scary, Earth X Quentin is a scary bastard! And Earth X Felicity! Of course Oliver cant hurt any Felicity! 

Stein *cries forever* 

[ParadoxLost]

I find Snart to be a little much.  Small doses are better.

But just about my favorite thing in this episode was Barry's "well a Snart we know always says"' followed by an impression of Snart's attitude about plans..

[Maverick]

 Ok, did they explain The Ray thing and I just missed it?  I feel like I'm in a David S. Pumpkins sketch.  So. Many. Questions.  How did he get to Earth-X?  How long has he been there?  Did he get his powers from the particle accelerator?  Why are they making Russell Tovey use that awful American accent?  What was the point of making him from Earth-1?  And why did he know the heroes are from the same place as he is when they said Earth-1?  Is there some governing body that regulates the numbering of Earths?  Like if you were on Earth-49 wouldn't you want to call your Earth Earth-1?  

 Why are there concentration camps on Earth-X?  If the Nazis won the war in the 40s, they surely would have exterminated all the "undesirables" in the following 70 years.   I'm also curios how they got ahold of a timeship.  Are there Time Masters on Earth-X?

 Citizen Cold > Captain Cold

Edited November 29, 2017 by Maverick

[GHScorpiosRule]

FINALLY! The BADASS Iris from season one shows up! I loved how she and Felicity teamed up to crawl through and shut down the power, free the others and kick ass along the way.

What didn’t work for me was how one dimensional Reverse Flash was.

STEIN!!!!!! Why????!!!!

Funny. I thought Blackthorne was using his natural accent playing the Nazi.

I ??at how Leo and Oliver got to wear the breach was; but Salim did it much better in Wonder Woman, along with Chris Pine’s Steve Trevor.

I’m a sap; I watch all four shows and have been enjoying this crossover on all shows.

Edited November 29, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[ParadoxLost]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really enjoyed parts of this episode. But I can't stress enough how this was more of a Supergirl episode, while the Supergirl episode was more of The Flash episode. If they just switched these two particular shows around somehow, it would have been much better, as the fans of both shows would have been more satisfied. Barry barely appeared in this episode, and West-Allen didn't even really get any scenes together.

This goes back to the same problem they had last year.  Supergirl is not the show that can set up the crossover event.  Even if there weren't a disparity in ratings, having them on a separate Earth makes it too difficult.

They need either Arrow or Flash to do it (and seem to prefer Flash). But they don't want to move Flash temporarily to a Monday for the cross over so they compromised by putting the Flash episode Monday and calling it Supergirl in the TVlistings and put Supergirl on Tuesday but called it Flash.

[Miss Dee]

My favourite moment (since there was no Mick): Barry's imitation of Captain Cold and his 4-Step Strategic Planning Method (trademark pending). Grant did a very good job there. And Snart's reaction: "I would never say that! God, what a stupid thing to say!"

[SimoneS]

56 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Another thing I dislike about this crossover is that I feel like certain major plot points happened on the wrong show. For example: (spoiler tagging it since I'm not sure if we can discuss the other crossover shows in other forums.)

  Hide contents

After all these years of sitting through the Barry & Iris relationship, they finally got married...on another show. I'm sorry, Barry & Iris getting married shouldn't have happened on Legends of Tomorrow.  Ditto Felicity and Oliver.

Really? Hilarious. This show really is its worse enemy.

[SevenStars]

As someone who don't watch the other shows, I didn't appreciate the way the majority of Flash main characters got sideline in the Flash hour.

CW basically used the Flash as the trojan horse for Supergirl/Arrow and LOT.  It made me more determine never to watch those three shows, especially Arrow. Almost everything about the Arrow characters rubbed me the wrong way. The only time I liked Felicity was when she was paired off with Iris. 

[Misslindsey]

I have a hard time maintaining interest in these crossovers. I gave up on Arrow a couple of seasons ago, because I got sick of Oliver and Felicity, so all the Arrow stuff bored me to tears. I also, gave up on Legends very early, because I have never been a fan of Caity Lotz as an actress. Her line delivery is so flat to me. I thought The Flash episode would be heavier on the characters from that show, but it felt too Oliver and Supergirl heavy. 

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Spoiler

After all these years of sitting through the Barry & Iris relationship, they finally got married...on another show. I'm sorry, Barry & Iris getting married shouldn't have happened on Legends of Tomorrow.  Ditto Felicity and Oliver.

 

This! I sporadically flipped back to Legends and saw this. I would have been annoyed if I did not.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Misslindsey

[Lantern7]

Scanned the AVClub review. The main point: made the most depressing chapter of the crossover was a Flash episode, and that should have been reserved for Arrow. Not like Star City is the place where hope goes to die unmourned (that would be Gotham City), but that's where a good chunk of Arrowverse angsting happens.

"We're in a concentration camp. How can things get worse?" "No, getting lined up to get executed doesn't count." "Hey, it's Sara's dad, and he's the Nazi in charge. I bet the Laurel that lives on Earth-X is a bitch here, too." Then Leonard "Leo" Snart freezes Nazis, and all is right with the multiverse.

Did Ray's Seed series air yet? I didn't see it. He felt shoehorned into the story, especially the part where he's from Earth-1. On the other hand, the Joe Quesada-designed outfit from the early Nineties holds up well on screen. I still think a parka can not work on TV. The canon eye-protection? That works.

Man, the Last Days of Martin Stein were painful to watch. If you rewatch the first two parts, you can probably spot the vultures lurking in the background, sharpening their knives and forks. At least he went out saving Jax, and Jax didn't look like a punk because of that.

On the live thread, I said, "Jeremy Jordan has been training his entire life for this episode, and it shows." I stand by that. And you can see that Winn's POV. "We have to go home." "But we can kill the enemy in one fell swoop." "But we have to go home." "Did I mention that Bearded Hitler and his girl could also conquer world after world?" "But we have to go home." "We have an underground book series here called 'Star Trek.' We learned that the needs of the man outweigh the needs of the few." "But we have to go home, and we'll probably never come back here." "Shit. good point. You get an hour."

[quarks]

I appreciate the concept here, really, I do, but these are low budget shows, and wow, was this part of the crossover showing the strain.

Good things:

1. THESE STAR WARS TRAILERS ARE AMAZING EVERYONE

2. Ralph was nowhere in this episode or even mentioned. For that alone, this bounces to one of my favorite episodes of the season.

3. Also, the camera stopped focusing on cleavage and butt shots of all of the women, an improvement over the Arrow installment.  (It's not that I don't appreciate the cleavage, but there's letting me appreciate it, and a general feeling of intrusiveness. This was better.)

4. Felicity and Iris team-up! Iris knowing Star Labs well enough to come up with the start of a rescue plan, and then knocking Nazis out!  Felicity and Iris getting the power turned off, helping to save Kara's life! I loved this. See, Flash? You can use Iris!

5. Paul Blackthorne's performance as Nazi Quentin; he was the single most convincing evil person in the entire crossover episode. Actually chilling, and the only one who came across as an actual evil person, not a cartoon evil person.  And unlike the other Nazis, actually intelligent.

6. Wentworth Miller hamming it up.

7. And yay, finally an in canon gay superhero couple played by gay actors! Sure, it's doomed, but at least we had it!  And give the Ray full credit for understanding that in the Arrowverse, it's best to have your introduction be shirtless.

8. Barry's little one second spy mission was hilarious.

9. Awww, Oliver the former Serial Killer couldn't kill Earth X Felicity even to save his friends. And we've all thought that Oliver would Never Change. 

10. Nyssa mention!  She hasn't been completely forgotten!  The entire scene Alex/Sara scene was pretty good.

12.  Ok, the robot was kinda dumb, but I liked it.

13. If we had to lose Stein, at least we started to lose him in a great sacrificial and surprisingly emotional scene.  And in an ending that did not send me looking for popcorn or thinking about cleaning things during the fourth part of the crossover.

Questionable things:

1. Since Team Legends are time travelers, surely they could have time traveled to an earlier part of this episode?

2. Why didn't Eobard use the Kryptonite Arrow to weaken Kara and evil Kara, given that Kryptonite would have worked even with the power off?

3. While I'm asking questions, when did Eobard learn how to do surgery?

4. And while I'm asking questions, back in season one Eobard/Wells One knew perfectly well who Felicity Smoak was - and Smoak Technologies was mentioned in his time travel newspaper thing. I get that Barry Allen and Team Legends have changed a lot of things and that Smoak Technologies is no longer going to be a thing, but what is this new "Nobody knows the name of Felicity Smoak!" You did!  Continuity, Flash! Continuity!

5. Then again pretty much everything about Eobard annoys me. I like Tom Cavanagh, but look, Eobard/Reverse-Flash has been killed off on two shows now so why is he back? Just to annoy me? 

6. I got why Our Heroes wanted to get back to Earth 1, but, and this is a huge but, the whole "We have no other way to get back!" thing kinda bugged me. No - your team back on Earth 1 was in dire trouble, yes, but they still had Cisco and they still had whatever Wells used to contact the other Wellses, which means that they had the ability to contact Gypsy. You have alternatives, guys, and Wynn had a point - letting the Nazis get a Waverider was equally bad.

7. Russell Tovey's accent. Unless there's a really good reason why this character has to be American, that was not a good move. 

8. I realize I miss things, but since the Waverider is from far into the future what is the evil version of it doing in current time Nazi verse?

9. This belongs more in the Supergirl forum, but based on this episode, why isn't Supergirl giving Jeremy Jordan more to do?

Bad things:

1. You know, I can accept a lot from this show. But that the Earth-X resistance group would just happen to build a Secret Lair that looks exactly like the Arrow Cave, no. If you're going to do these huge blockbuster crossover episodes, then spend the money on new sets.

2. I know that they were really just running this as an overall series, but given that most of the Supergirl supporting characters, except Wynn and Alex, only appeared in the Supergirl episode, Team New Arrows had their major scene in the Arrow episode, and the other half of Team Legends only showed up in Legends of Tomorrow, it felt rather odd to have most of the major Flash stuff on Supergirl and most of the major Supergirl stuff on Flash.  Not to mention that Flash ended up having the darkest, most depressing and evil moments of the entire crossover - all emotions more associated with Arrow.

3. I also know that the Barry/Ray/Red Tornado thing was supposed to be cool, but between the terrible CGI, the fact that it took me awhile to realize that was the Red Tornado, and the difficulty of figuring out exactly what was going on, it was not.

4. And yikes, the production values for the huge warehouse (sigh) fight were...really not good. I realize the show was blowing its CGI budget on many other things, but between the laughably few numbers of Nazis guarding the Ultimate Weapon and the questionable CGI - well, choosing to focus the camera on Stein was a wise decision for many reasons.

5. On that note - I liked The Ray, as far as that went, but this was arguably an even worse introduction to Freedom Fighters than the crossovers two years ago were for Legends of Tomorrow.  The CGI effects for the Ray and Red Tornado looked terrible; the Ray felt shoehorned in; and no one bothered to introduce Red Tornado at all.  And of course Freedom Fighters won't, unlike Legends of Tomorrow, be bringing in other characters from other shows. I'm assuming that the special effects will look better in animation, but the end result was to make me feel a lot less interested in this than, say, Vixen.

Completely inexplicable things:

1. Add me to the list of people wondering why the Earth-X people felt they had to drag Our Heroes over to Earth-X in order to execute them. Surely they just could have killed everyone in Earth-1? I kept hoping there was going to be an actual plot reason for this, but no. 

[Trini]

This was definitely an improvement from part 2. Great character interactions; dialog, action, and performances. Not much humor, but lots of heart.

This is starting out good, even if our heroes are in peril.

Hee - standard TV air ducts that are pristine, and big enough to walk through.

Eobard is such a troll - in a love-to-hate way. He went and looked for that wheelchair and glasses just to make an entrance! Seriously, Eo-Wells is the best Wells.

"Perfect timing - really enjoyed the pun” ; “That’s terrible advice!" — Oh Snart, how I’ve missed you! Can Leo stay forever??

Melissa was much better here as  Kara-X than previously. I’m blaming the directors.

General Schott! Nice. See, here’s an actor playing a different character.

Aww, Jax and Stein are great.

Great scenes between Kara/Kara, Iris/Felicity, and Sara/Alex. Actually a lot great scenes with various pairings. Can the people who wrote this one write all of the crossover from now on?

So I’m expecting this version of Metallo to show up on Supergirl soon-ish.

I knew they wouldn’t be able to resist getting Earth-X Felicity in there.

They really didn’t give Barry much to do here; I guess parts 1 & 4 are his more involved episodes.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Trini

[Whodunnit]

As for the episode it felt a little like a backdoor pilot for something involving  the Ray, Red Tornado (?), Citizen Cold and Evil NeoNazis.

And the goateed General Wynn.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Whodunnit
And the goatee General Winn.

[Lantern7]

One more post before bed: Barry does an awesome Snart. Leo's reaction was priceless as well.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

3. While I'm asking questions, when did Eobard learn how to do surgery?

 

Speedsters learn fast, man.
 

Quote

4. And while I'm asking questions, back in season one Eobard/Wells One knew perfectly well who Felicity Smoak was - and Smoak Technologies was mentioned in his time travel newspaper thing. I get that Barry Allen and Team Legends have changed a lot of things and that Smoak Technologies is no longer going to be a thing, but what is this new "Nobody knows the name of Felicity Smoak!" You did!  Continuity, Flash! Continuity!

He knows who she is; he was saying that she wasn't historically important, or as remembered/famous as the other heroes.

 

4 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I find Snart to be a little much.  Small doses are better.

But just about my favorite thing in this episode was Barry's "well a Snart we know always says"' followed by an impression of Snart's attitude about plans..

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

One more post before bed: Barry does an awesome Snart. Leo's reaction was priceless as well.

Grant was doing a Wentworth Miller impression RIGHT IN FRONT OF Wentworth Miller -- I was dying!!

 

1 hour ago, Whodunnit said:

As for the episode it felt a little like a backdoor pilot for something involving  the Ray, Red Tornado (?), Citizen Cold and Evil NeoNazis.

And the goateed General Wynn.

Pssst... it was.

Spoiler

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/video/2017/07/22/video-freedom-fighters-the-ray-comic-con-2017-sneak-peek-872405/20170722wbt11/

[BkWurm1]

I do have to admit feeling a bit bad that our heroes destroyed the resistances best weapon.  I suppose it balances out since Oliver and Co did manage to destroy EarthX's worst toy, EVIL Waverider, lol and also the leader, the superpowered General, Prometheus, and managed to run off their new evil speedster.  But still.  I'd be pissy if I was General Winn.  Hope The Ray aka Ray (also probably the reason why Ray Palmer wasn't around til the end- why does everyone in this 'verse share the same names - this is as bad as Samantha, Samanda, and Sam) doesn't' get into too much trouble.

[Commando Cody]

Apparently, things didn’t work out with Alonso and Captain Jack.

 

 I don’t like these “crossovers”. I only watch Arrow, and The Flash. This should have just been a TV movie.

[Chip]

Please remember to only discuss only things that happened in the current or previous parts of the crossover. No spoilers for part 4.

[EmilyBettFan]

Felicity was crying in the minute scene where she's a captured Jew on earth x. 

But the whole scene with Stein and Jackson and he didn't cry? Not even when he told Stein's family. 

[SevenStars]

19 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Felicity was crying in the minute scene where she's a captured Jew on earth x. 

But the whole scene with Stein and Jackson and he didn't cry? Not even when he told Stein's family. 

I guess the actor is not really that good of an actor. One of the reasons I didn't like him in previous Flash episodes but he does seem to have improved.

[GHScorpiosRule]

23 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Felicity was crying in the minute scene where she's a captured Jew on earth x. 

But the whole scene with Stein and Jackson and he didn't cry? Not even when he told Stein's family. 

I saw that differently--if you're talking about when Stein was shot? Well, adrenaline and all that. And since Jax told Clarissa and Lilly in part four, I can't expound on what happened with them here.

[quarks]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

He knows who she is; he was saying that she wasn't historically important, or as remembered/famous as the other heroes.

Except for two things:

1. He listed everyone else who would be remembered/famous by code names. Sure, she might not be remembered as Felicity Smoak, but as Overwatch? Yes.

2. And it still contradicts the first season. When he saw Felicity, he immediately recognized who she was, to the point of being able to list out her educational background and note that we need to keep an eye on her.  He's had that reaction to exactly three other characters in the entire series - Barry Allen, Oliver Queen and now, Devoe/The Thinker, with an implication that he had a similar reaction to Cisco before the show started. I mean, the show just went to the point of bringing Eobard back last episode to emphasize that Eobard immediately recognized Devoe's name and thus importance - in a scene that was literally only there for that reason (and to remind viewers that yes, Eobard is very familiar with Star Labs prior to these episodes.)

So yeah, I'm calling shenanigans on this.

[KirkB]

It's not shenanigans though.

Central City is aware of all the things the Flash has done for them. In the years to come the Flash will be remembered and talked about as a public figure, not so much the cop who raised him, for example.

Star City owes a lot to the Green Arrow. He stopped several terrorist attacks. He will be historically remembered, moreso than the guy in the hockey mask. Or the woman in a lair somewhere working on computer who no one but the team ever sees.

People (and by that I mean the general public. WE know everyone) would remember Green Arrow and the Flash, even if they don't know their real names. Not their entire group of friends and allies.

But even if Felicity Smoak were as publicly well known as the Green Arrow and others, don't forget this is coming from Thawne, right before he's about to kill her. Unreliable narrator barely begins to cover it. For his own enjoyment he'd want her to believe she's nothing as she dies at his hand, even if she somehow turned out to be the most important person in the history of the world.

Edited November 29, 2017 by KirkB

[Mellowyellow]

He smirked and said "Latte, cute" when she gave him her password.

I was obsessing about that a bit. But then it's Thawne and Arrowverse so I'm most likely wasting energy.

[mtlchick]

Well given what happens in LoT, I think they should have flipped the episodes around and the 4 parter should have ended with The Flash.  

It's interesting that the heroes were here for Barry and Iris' wedding, one of the most central people from Team Flash was missing in this episode (Joe) and it was less focused on Barry and Iris overall.  

Leo's "What?!" about his Earth 1 counterpart on how he "Executes a plan" made the episode.  

[johntfs]

11 hours ago, quarks said:

Why didn't Eobard use the Kryptonite Arrow to weaken Kara and evil Kara, given that Kryptonite would have worked even with the power off?

For much the same reason that real doctors use general anesthetic instead of oh, say, sarin gas.  Kryptonite weakens Kryptonians because it's highly toxic to them.

How weird do you think it was for Kara when Felicity, the normal human, was putting herself between Kara and Evil Oliver?

Also, people have comment that Kara and EvilKara are very different people and Melissa Benoist took pains to show that while the Olivers seemed more similar.  I think that's a bit deliberate.  While Oliver would never be a Nazi, you could see a situation where he could become a tyrant if he thought he needed to be one.

[Misslindsey]

I did not see the first episode in the crossover. I imagine it started with Barry and Iris' wedding. Was Joe or Wally there? I felt that Joe's presence was missing especially since a part of the story was Barry and Iris' wedding. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

23 minutes ago, johntfs said:

How weird do you think it was for Kara when Felicity, the normal human, was putting herself between Kara and Evil Oliver?

Very weird, but also grateful, I would hope. I mean, Kara was terribly weakened at that point that she couldn't even walk, much less defend herself. It's not a situation she usually finds herself in and for a normal human to protect her is quite admirable. Made their hug at the park even better. 

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, Chip said:

Please remember to only discuss only things that happened in the current or previous parts of the crossover. No spoilers for part 4.

Would it be possible to have a place to discuss the crossover in its entirety?  Because some of the themes can't be discussed in the standalone threads.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I did not see the first episode in the crossover. I imagine it started with Barry and Iris' wedding. Was Joe or Wally there? I felt that Joe's presence was missing especially since a part of the story was Barry and Iris' wedding. 

It did; and yes, Joe and Wally were both there.

4 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Would it be possible to have a place to discuss the crossover in its entirety?  Because some of the themes can't be discussed in the standalone threads.

Probably in the Arrow forum-Mind Your Surroundings thread, which covers all the Superhero universes.

[phoenics]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

It did; and yes, Joe and Wally were both there.

Probably in the Arrow forum-Mind Your Surroundings thread, which covers all the Superhero universes.

It's on the Arrow board, which I studiously avoid.  No - can we have a thread just for the crossover event that is not on the Arrow forum.  I avoid it because of getting attacked there a couple of years ago for not bowing at the feet of olicity.  i certainly can't discuss the theme I wanted to discuss there.

[johntfs]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It's on the Arrow board, which I studiously avoid.  No - can we have a thread just for the crossover event that is not on the Arrow forum.  I avoid it because of getting attacked there a couple of years ago for not bowing at the feet of olicity.  i certainly can't discuss the theme I wanted to discuss there.

Or there's The Flash and Other Superheroes thread on this board.

[phoenics]

3 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Or there's The Flash and Other Superheroes thread on this board.

Thanks - but I'm not sure that's the right board for it either.  I'll just keep it to myself and develop an ulcer.

[Bats27]

Evil Nazis Quentin Lance actually came across as the most despicable of all imo. When he:

Spoiler

Reveals that he killed Earth-X Sara because she was bisexual, and called her "filth," wow that was so cruel. And it's one of the few times that Sara is immediately noticeable affected by something that her dad said.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Bats27

[CabotCove]

Quote

I don't mind Melissa Benoist and thought she did a great job at least differentiating between Kara and Overgirl. At times, it took me a few seconds to differentiate Oliver from Dark Arrow. Melissa really tried to give Evil Kara a distinction, with her look, the way she walked, plus the way she talked, accent included. Stephen, as much as I love him, has Evil Oliver a little too close to our Oliver. He's made some distinctions, but not enough. 

Agree, Melissa nailed it.

 

Quote

It's on the Arrow board, which I studiously avoid.  No - can we have a thread just for the crossover event that is not on the Arrow forum.  I avoid it because of getting attacked there a couple of years ago for not bowing at the feet of olicity.  i certainly can't discuss the theme I wanted to discuss there.

so agree

Edited November 29, 2017 by HeroLeague

[phoenics]

5 minutes ago, Bats27 said:

Evil Nazis Quentin Lance actually came across as the most despicable of all imo. When he:

  Hide contents

Reveals that he killed Earth-X Sara because she was bisexual, and called her "filth," wow that was so cruel. And it's one of the few times that Sara is immediately noticeable affected by something that her dad said.

Completely agree.  That was the ONLY moment I actually felt like the Nazis were acting like actual Nazis.  I get the whole fascism thing they were going for so there was that - but before Lance, I felt the Nazis were watered down.  The fact that they never let Iris react to Nazis interrupting her wedding (as a black woman I would have had a LOT to say about that) was telling.  But Lance's Nazi?  He actually frightened me.  Oliver/Kara Nazis were cartoonish and weak compared to him.

3 minutes ago, HeroLeague said:

Agree, Melissa nailed it.

She's good at playing characters gone "bad".

Although I did think both Oliver's and Kara's evil Nazi doppelgangers were cartoonish compared to Blackthorne's Nazi.  He was truly scary.

[Trini]

35 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I did not see the first episode in the crossover. I imagine it started with Barry and Iris' wedding. Was Joe or Wally there? I felt that Joe's presence was missing especially since a part of the story was Barry and Iris' wedding. 

The Supergirl episode set up everything. There was wedding prep; the rehearsal dinner; and then the interrupted ceremony. Joe, Wally, Cecile, and even Capt. Singh were there. After the attack at the wedding, Wally took Joe and Cecile to safety... and they stayed there.

 

17 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Or there's The Flash and Other Superheroes thread on this board.

Yeah, that's the right thread.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

Although I did think both Oliver's and Kara's evil Nazi doppelgangers were cartoonish compared to Blackthorne's Nazi.  He was truly scary.

 I think he gave the best villainous performance in the crossover. He was effortlessly menacing.

I t was nice seeing a different version of Winn and Jeremy Jordan was great. He needs more to do on Supergirl, something besides the Guardian plot. 

Loved Earth X's Snart's introduction. Miller always sells those campy lines.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Oreo2234

[AudienceofOne]

20 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Ok, did they explain The Ray thing and I just missed it?  I feel like I'm in a David S. Pumpkins sketch.  So. Many. Questions.  How did he get to Earth-X?  How long has he been there?  Did he get his powers from the particle accelerator?  Why are they making Russell Tovey use that awful American accent?  What was the point of making him from Earth-1?  And why did he know the heroes are from the same place as he is when they said Earth-1?  Is there some governing body that regulates the numbering of Earths?  Like if you were on Earth-49 wouldn't you want to call your Earth Earth-1?  

 Why are there concentration camps on Earth-X?  If the Nazis won the war in the 40s, they surely would have exterminated all the "undesirables" in the following 70 years.   I'm also curios how they got ahold of a timeship.  Are there Time Masters on Earth-X?

 Citizen Cold > Captain Cold

This. All of this. Everything of this.

20 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Another thing I dislike about this crossover is that I feel like certain major plot points happened on the wrong show. For example: (spoiler tagging it since I'm not sure if we can discuss the other crossover shows in other forums.)

  Reveal hidden contents

After all these years of sitting through the Barry & Iris relationship, they finally got married...on another show. I'm sorry, Barry & Iris getting married shouldn't have happened on Legends of Tomorrow.  Ditto Felicity and Oliver.

Spoiler

If you will recall, last year I TOTALLY CALLED IT. Everyone told me I was wrong but I said they'd have Barry and Iris marry on LoT. I'm just surprised no Flash fans are losing their shit. Or maybe they are on the LoT thread. I'm about to go and see. And laugh. Because I called it.