S06.E08: Crisis on Earth-X (2)

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Yeah, his costume makes no sense given his backstory. Especially since the person who inspired the costume was from China which presumably doesn't exist either. What happened to the other Axis powers on this world? 

I'm holding back on commenting until I've watched all four hours because I would basically be this lady: 

Returning to lurking. 

The truth is that Oliver just thinks hoods show off his jawline really well. He wanted to wear Yao Fei’s hood from the day they met, and he was really jealous when Shado got it. 

[DavidJSnyder]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know what I was thinking? It's awfully considerate of all the villains in Star City right now to take a break. I mean, Diggle's the only one there right now, and he can't fight. (I'm going to assume that Thea's still recovering, though who knows, she could be ready to take down an army if they wanted her to.) 

Vigilante's taking care of business.

[Oreo2234]

As great as the warehouse fight scene was it bothered me that Sara was able to trade blows with Overgirl. I know Overgirl is a little weakened but her powers are still intact so Sara should have broke her hand hitting her.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Oreo2234

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Now, for Eobard. I admit that I could have missed the explanation, but Eobard died in Legends season 2. How is he still alive? Is this an Eobard before that season? A time remnant? Probably the latter. He was still underwhelming, much like Dark Arrow. Overgirl was the only one to somewhat impress me, but even her potential is hindered by her marriage to Dark Archer.

Yes.  The Eobard thing completely bugged.  If they had said he was from Earth-something-other-than-1, I could deal.  But he was still E-1 Eobard.  The Spear of Destiny on Legends was supposed to completely remake reality.  That is why it was such a badass thing.  Sara basically dissolved him from reality.  So he shouldn't be there.  Am I reading that wrong? 

Edited November 28, 2017 by DearEvette

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, DearEvette said:

Sara basically unmade him.  So he shouldn't be there.  Am I reading that wrong? 

I thought she just did away with the spear and the reality that the Legion had created with it.  Black Flash took care of Eobard.  

[tv echo]

I don't think Mick was invited. I think he just crashed for the free food.

Ray wasn't invited because their budget couldn't afford the additional special effects needed for the Atom.

[VCRTracking]

I attribute Melissa Benoist's lackluster performance as Overgirl simply to her not liking playing her. When she was Kara effected by Red Kryptonite she was clearly having fun being that dark version of Supergirl. This is different. This is a version of a character that's meant to be inspiring espousing hateful ideology.

Edited November 28, 2017 by VCRTracking

[scarynikki12]

I think Mick just crashed. That’s more in character. 

As for Sara’s invite, the Flash characters claim to have loved Laurel despite most of them not sharing scenes or speaking to her so I have no trouble believing they got to know Sara during last year’s crossover event. I’d much rather see these moments where they get to know one another but if Laurel can be beloved despite no onscreen evidence then the other characters can too. 

That or Snart told Barry about his crush on Sara and Barry figured she’d have been his plus 1 if he’d lived. 

[Lantern7]

32 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I don't think Mick was invited. I think he just crashed for the free food.

I think a meeting was held, and it was determined that Mick could do less damage at a wedding than -- IIRC --during a mission in the Stone Age with the others. I know that Amaya could curb him, but imagine Mick being the guy to introduce fire to cavemen. "Are you kidding me?!? You don't need my heat gun! You got sticks, you got kindling . . . hey, Haircut, does the translate thing do 'caveman'? Because I don't think these jerks are getting it."

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Sara secretly absorbed Vandal Savage's immortality.

No, she's just really, really, REALLY hard to kill. I mean, she was presumed dead twice years before she actually died. Her power is basically awesomeness; fighting ability is listed under "skills."

[Sakura12]

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I think a meeting was held, and it was determined that Mick could do less damage at a wedding than -- IIRC --during a mission in the Stone Age with the others. I know that Amaya could curb him, but imagine Mick being the guy to introduce fire to cavemen. "Are you kidding me?!? You don't need my heat gun! You got sticks, you got kindling . . . hey, Haircut, does the translate thing do 'caveman'? Because I don't think these jerks are getting it."

No, she's just really, really, REALLY hard to kill. I mean, she was presumed dead twice years before she actually died. Her power is basically awesomeness; fighting ability is listed under "skills."

Since she's died like 3 times (for real this time) she can be killed, she just doesn't stay dead. 

As a Legends watching, I'm not buying TC's Thawne anymore. He sounds like an angry child while ML's Thawne was more calculating and clever and didn't need to use a Batman voice to sound menacing. Was there a reason we didn't get evil Nazi Barry? Or was because they don't want to ruin the image of their "perfect" hero. I think Evil Barry should've been the Fuhrer, he'd love to control time and do whatever he wants when he wants too.  

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As a Legends watching, I'm not buying TC's Thawne anymore. He sounds like an angry child while ML's Thawne was more calculating and clever and didn't need to use a Batman voice to sound menacing.

Yeah, I prefer ML's Thawne now too.  But even TC's S1!Thawne wasn't this scenery chewing.

[DearEvette]

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Was there a reason we didn't get evil Nazi Barry?

I did wonder why we got Thawne instead of Evil Barry for the Earth-X speedster.  But then I wonder if they thought we had already suffered from an evil Barry (Savitar) last year and didn't want to revisit that so early?

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

Was there a reason we didn't get evil Nazi Barry?

I'm wondering this, too. There was a comment in the live chat that that face off scene would have been more powerful with doppelgangers of all 3 heroes there, and I totally agree. 

[Starfish35]

I thought maybe it was because they needed the evil genius scientist?  Barry could be that though.

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm wondering this, too. There was a comment in the live chat that that face off scene would have been more powerful with doppelgangers of all 3 heroes there, and I totally agree. 

I thought the same in that scene.

[Sakura12]

Also did Barry take credit for getting rid of Thawne? Wasn't that Eddie the first time and Black Flash the second time. 

[tv echo]

Maybe they just couldn't get Grant Gustin free for enough time to shoot more crossover scenes? SA had more free time than usual because of the recent Oliver-lite episodes, but even so, SA shot more than any other actor for the crossover and he was burnt.

Edited November 28, 2017 by tv echo

[Aeryn13]

I get it with Kara and they kinda explained Thawnobard but why the hell is X-Oliver an archer? For that matter, why was X-Tommy? Growing up indoctrinated in youth camps doesn`t mean you become a dark archer. And furthermore, is Oliver the political and/or military leader of the entire Earth X? Or does the triumvirate of evil lead? Wouldn`t the political power stay in Germany if the Nazis won WWII? I know the answer is "because of plot reasons" and  "it`s a US-based show" but I can only suspend my disbelief so far.

At least with the pairing of X-Oliver/X-Kara, I can go "whatever". It is random enough and honestly, even though they look like our characters, they are still pretty generic villains.     

Overall, there were neat character moments in both episodes but if you aren`t into the relationship drama on all shows, oh boy, this ain`t the x-over for you. I really like Olicity and I find the plot point of "Oliver suddenly absolutely wants to get married, right now if possible" and "Felicity hates even the thought of marriage" a bit forced. Granted, they had the WestAllen wedding as an impetus to bring it all out but I felt clobbered by the writing.

But if it has a sweet pay-off, okay, I can deal. 

Quote

Was there a reason we didn't get evil Nazi Barry?

I think they were a bit gun-shy since just last Season on the Flash the main villain was Barry`s evil doppelganger. If not for that, I feel we would have gotten Nazi!Barry as well.   

Edited November 28, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Trini]

45 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I did wonder why we got Thawne instead of Evil Barry for the Earth-X speedster.  But then I wonder if they thought we had already suffered from an evil Barry (Savitar) last year and didn't want to revisit that so early?

I think already having Savitar late last season was the main reason. They might have also wanted to see Cavanagh in the role again; and maybe they might not have wanted a nazi version of Barry in the same 'event' as Earth-1 Barry. But the entire nazi thing is in poor taste, so....

[johntfs]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think they were a bit gun-shy since just last Season on the Flash the main villain was Barry`s evil doppelganger. If not for that, I feel we would have gotten Nazi!Barry as well.  

I could easily see Nazi Barry Allen on the cover of whatever passes for Seventeen magazine on Earth-X.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I could easily see Nazi Barry Allen on the cover of whatever passes for Seventeen magazine on Earth-X.

Yikes, probably. And of course he would be the Flash because despite this world being radically different and gone to shit basically, Oliver apparently still what? Went to an evil island and had roughly the same backstory? So Nazi!Barry would probably be a scientist who was hit by lightning in a particle accelerator explosion. Because everything is different, the character`s are different, thematically they just end up in the exact same place with the exact same skills.

If there is evil Legends on an evil timeship fixing evil anachronisms to keep Nazi history intact, I will just throw my hands in the air and go "of course". 

[WindofChange]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This did feel more like an Arrow-centric episode, mostly because there was more focus on Olicity, so Arrow fans lucked out on that (Supergirl fans were probably disappointed). I thought their scenes were well done, but I am still annoyed by the Felicity/Oliver marriage dilemma. Not that people can choose to not get married, and Felicity has every right to change her mind while Oliver also has the right to be disappointed, but it certainly felt like contrived drama. It just felt stilted for me, I guess. There was just something that held me back from enjoying the subplot, and I'm not sure what. I think it's how I see the outcome of this subplot happening, with Felicity changing her mind and Oliver being right all along. I mean, if Emily didn't portray Felicity as guilty and regretful over her feelings, then I might not be so convinced. 

I think we both had different reads on the situation. I don't really consider it contrived drama. yes Oliver bringing it up spontaneously was a bit abrupt but given his current mindset, where Olicity are as a couple, as well as the fact that they're at a wedding it makes sense why he'd propose. 

As for Felicity not wanting to get married, I don't think Emily portrayed Felicity as regretful or guilty. I saw her more being scared than anything else. Scared of changing their status quo, scared of losing Oliver, scared of the idea of marriage because they don't have a great track record. It's an honest portrayal of where Felicity is at the moment emotionally. She's been through so much in the past 2 years that it makes sense that now that her life is where she finally wants it to be, she doesn't want to change anything. I don't think she's against marriage at all, she's just afraid.

Oliver on the other hand, he's become a man who's embracing life more and more so it makes sense why he'd want to take this leap with Felicity. He doesn't want to wait any longer because he knows how he feels and he knows Felicity is the one.

I actually think this is the most organic drama they could've come up with. Oliver and Felicity love each other so much, they're just treating this love differently. Felicity is trying to protect it by trying to keep everything the same, Oliver is trying to protect it by asking Felicity to marry him. This is just an emotional journey that Felicity has to take throughout the crossover to finally be on the same page as Oliver and to finally stop being scared taking the next step.

Edited November 28, 2017 by WindofChange

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, WindofChange said:

I think we both had different reads on the situation. I don't really consider it contrived drama. yes Oliver bringing it up spontaneously was a bit abrupt but given his current mindset as well as the fact that they're at a wedding it makes sense why he'd propose. 

As for Felicity not wanting to get married, I don't think Emily portrayed Felicity as regretful or guilty. I saw her more being scared than anything else. Scared of changing their status quo, scared of losing Oliver, scared of the idea of marriage because they don't have a great track record. It's an honest portrayal of where Felicity is at the moment emotionally. She's been through so much in the past 2 years that it makes sense that now that her life is where she finally wants it to be, she doesn't want to change anything. I don't think she's against marriage at all, she's just afraid.

Oliver on the other hand, he's become a man who's embracing life more and more so it makes sense why he'd want to take this leap with Felicity. He doesn't want to wait any longer because he knows how he feels and he knows Felicity is the one.

I actually think this is the most organic drama they could've come up with. Oliver and Felicity love each other so much, they're just treating this love differently. Felicity is trying to protect it by trying to keep everything the same, Oliver is trying to protect it by asking Felicity to marry him. This is just an emotional journey that Felicity has to take throughout the crossover to finally be on the same page as Oliver and to finally stop being scared taking the next step.

Ok, fair enough. It is better than their season 4 drama because both characters were actually in character. And again, I did love their scenes, especially when I rewatched it. And I do like that Felicity was questioning marriage after what happened the first time. I guess there's still two episodes tonight to dive deeper into their differing ideas of marriage. My initial impressions might have been clouded, though, by other plots and issues I had with the episode. Once I sat back to just watch the Olicity scenes, it helped a lot. 

Though, I will admit that I loved that Felicity stated that they don't need to be married to be together. I think that's a viewpoint that is not explored enough on television. For television, they tend to go the route of every couple needing to be married in order for couples to achieve some goal or be happy or something. This episode didn't stray toward that idea, let me be perfectly clear, but it's just that I was hoping, and still am, for Oliver to come to the conclusion that being with Felicity doesn't need to be marriage. However, like I said, there's still two more episodes to deal with this idea, so I'm holding out some hope. 

Plus, if Supergirl could deal with kids vs no kids debate with grace, and actually present the typical "couples must like kids and have kids to be happy" in a mature way where the person not wanting kids isn't made out to be the wrong one, then maybe they'll share the same courtesy toward the marriage debate. 

[Guest]

Yeah, for once I didn't find the drama contrived tbh (unlike the baby mama drama), mainly because it makes sense with their history and everything that's happened between them. Felicity is clearly scared of losing Oliver and thinks marriage when they've only recently gotten back together might rock the boat. And Oliver finally has Felicity back and wants to marry her and be a family. I think if I had to nitpick I wish they'd dropped a couple of hints of their mindsets throughout s6b but that really is just me nitpicking tbh. (The only hint we had about Felicity and marriage was over on The Flash when she said that the last time they walked down the aisle Oliver was shot with an arrow, so she clearly has some fears about it.)

[mtlchick]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

think they were a bit gun-shy since just last Season on the Flash the main villain was Barry`s evil doppelganger. If not for that, I feel we would have gotten Nazi!Barry as well.   

 

That was my takeaway too.  They can throw him in as a Nazi General tonight, but doing an evil version of himself is too much of an overload if you factor the back half of last season. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Vigilante's taking care of business.

Or possibly (and more likely) Cayden James.  James wants Star City to be mostly intact when he burns it down around Oliver's ears.

[LeighAn]

To be honest I did find the Olicity stuff not necessarily contrived drama, as I think it hit on relevant and in characters concerns/issues for them as a couple, but heightened drama. But Stephen and Emily always sell even the most OTT writing based on sheer chemistry alone.

 

Im also fully aware that my feelings on the Olicity scenes were probably clouded by my total hatred of the Nazi stuff which was just as trivialising and humanising Nazis garbage as I worried. Like I don't care FurherOliver that your evil Nazi brother died and your so upset and want honour his Nazi ass. I don't care how much you love your Nazi Wife and would sacrifice your mission and go to all these lengths to save her Nazi ass. And I don't care Nazi Kara that your sad for your FurherHusband losing his racist friend. Youre all Nazi scum. And not even entertaining or accomplishedly acted Nazi Scum like Hans Landa.  (Although granted Colin did far better acting job in one scene then Stephen and Melissa did as nazis all episode) 

[Lady Calypso]

Oh, I just remembered one of my gripes from one of the lines out of this episode. So, Harry states that there's 53 Earths, now with Earth X. But then he goes on to say that there are 53 Karas out there. But is Harry just assuming, or does he know that for sure? I mean, I'm remembering in the very first Supergirl crossover back in season 1, when Barry accidentally jumped to Kara's Earth and tried searching for his friends and they simply didn't exist on her Earth. Unless they just happened to die early on, I assume that there won't be a Kara or Oliver or Barry on every single Earth. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think Arrow began laying the seeds of Felicity being gunshy in the S6 premiere when she demurred on the dinner invitation from Oliver. I wish they actually had her express a POV to somebody (like what she's doing with Iris now) instead of just a lingering look and a bit of a pout. Then there's the comment at her mini-crossover on The Flash about the last time they tried to get (fake) married. In retrospect, I'm wondering if her "are you sure? this is what you want?" to Oliver when he gave her the key was also a symptom of her being gunshy.

As for Oliver, Stephen sold that "Again? Yeah" after Barry asked if he thought about making it official with Felicity. He made me think he'd just been biding his time ever since he gave Felicity that goofy keychain. 

Do I wish these were all made clear in Arrow episodes. Absolutely. But I don't expect much from Arrow anymore.

[KirkB]

Hang on. How long has Harry known there were 53 Earths and not 52? Because a couple of seasons ago on Flash he was the one who helped Barry and company close the 52 (as he specifically stated) breaches, in part to try and stop Zoom. Was he aware at the time there was an Earth full of Nazis who had, or were trying to acquire, some sort of breaching ability of their own and failed to mention it? Because I'd like to think that would come up in conversation. "By the way guys, once we stop your evil speedster and close all these dimensional doorways, there is a Nazi Earth you might want to worry about."

[statsgirl]

I can wave Oliver and Tommy being archers because that is what they taught in Evil Nazi Camp.  you know they were going to prioritize fighting and following orders over playing nice.

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, I just remembered one of my gripes from one of the lines out of this episode. So, Harry states that there's 53 Earths, now with Earth X. But then he goes on to say that there are 53 Karas out there. But is Harry just assuming, or does he know that for sure? I mean, I'm remembering in the very first Supergirl crossover back in season 1, when Barry accidentally jumped to Kara's Earth and tried searching for his friends and they simply didn't exist on her Earth. Unless they just happened to die early on, I assume that there won't be a Kara or Oliver or Barry on every single Earth. 

You're asking for logic and consistency in the Arrowverse?

I took it to mean that there are 53 (at least) parallel universes out there.  They contain 53 Karas but presumably not all have made it to Earth or some died early.

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

When Nazis are portrayed as 2D, cartoony villains, it's easy to dismiss them as fictional, fantasy villains. But in real life, it's the ordinary family who lives down the street, or the polite guy who works in the local store or office, who hide their evil and bigotry behind a facade of normalcy. That's the hidden threat - not the obvious villain. On the other hand, normalizing evil is also a real danger. So I dunno.

The banality of evil.  I'm not sure that TV is the place to explore that though, people may take it as the banal evil people really being good guys.

19 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Not her type?

Tommy may not have been Iris' type, but he was in the news a lot with Oliver.  She should have recognized the name at least.

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

We got LOTS of Olicity this week, with Felicity and Iris have multiple conversations about their feelings, and how their normal people problems keep getting interrupted by evil armies or giant sharks or whatever.

This is something I didn't expect at all from the cross-overs but I really love it.  There was time for conversations and emotions (including Jax telling Stein why he will miss him so much).  The stand-alone episodes are just bam! bam! action so much I wish there was time for the storylines and characters to breathe like they did here.

16 hours ago, popgoesculture said:

 And while it was sweet that they had her sing at the wedding, I don't know what kind of show has MB over Victor Garber and Jesse L. Martin singing a duet. 

Also, I thought the direction on the first ep was way better than the second ep. I will never understand why Bamford is so bad at directing fight scenes (y'know, other than his absolute lack of experience in directing...).  When I can't tell who is fighting who or what they're doing, that's on the direction. I don't need the camera angle from someone crouched down on the ground.

The church fight was awesome. All the fights on the Supergirl part were better than the ones on Arrow.  Bamford needs more practice.  Or less hubris.

I know Barry gets to ask who he wants to sing at his wedding, but picking Kara over Stein?  I don't get it.

16 hours ago, Chaser said:

I think they should have changed their looks for the characters, given Kara a new hairstyle, add a scar to SA or something to help. I also wish they had really embraced being completely different characters and changed walks, mannerisms, vocals, etc.

Since they were fighters, Prometheus and NaziOliver should have had scars.  The evil Nazis in movies did.  Overgirl doesn't get them, ,of course.

8 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Aside: Felicity, Caitlin and Alex doing most the tech stuff?  It's what STEM dreams are made of.  

I would so watch that show.  We need it for young girls.

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, very minor and stupid nitpick, but I got annoyed at Oliver insisting that they talked about it, even when Felicity didn't want to until afterward, followed by the scene of Felicity wanting to talk about it and Oliver insisting that it can wait. Also, the fact that Oliver is whining about Felicity not wanting to get married and how Felicity feels guilty over it. I'm hoping that it will lead to a scene of Oliver telling Felicity that he can live with them not being married. Even that acknowledgment will make it a bit better, though I suspect Felicity will end up changing her mind.

It's consistent for Oliver though, he gets an idea in his head and he can't let it go, or listen to other ideas much.  He did it with Ra's, he did it with running away at the end of s3 and not checking how Felicity felt,  he did it with the fake wedding in s4.  He also has a habit of expecting Felicity to read his mind (e.g. all the times he thought he was telling her that he loved her in s3).

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

If the Nazis won WW2 on Earth-X, then it's possible that parallel versions of Felicity and Iris never existed on Earth-X because their parents or grandparents could've been killed long ago. Still, I would love to see Earth-X versions of them as Resistance fighters.

Some nitpicks:
-- XOliver wouldn't necessarily have the same training or even be an archer like our Oliver because he would not have grown up a spoiled brat and then spent five years on an island (and elsewhere) learning archery and martial arts. He would've grown up in a military system. 

I like your point of Felicity and Iris not existing on a Nazi world.  Well maybe just Felicity because James was there at the start.

Oliver may have been a spoiled brat because the families of the people in charge (whether Nazis or Communists or other dictators) got lots of perks and didn't have to meet the standards ordinary people did.  But he may well have had to go to military school along with Evil Camp and they may have taught archery and fighting as a way to toughen up the children.

[Hiveminder]

12 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think Arrow began laying the seeds of Felicity being gunshy in the S6 premiere when she demurred on the dinner invitation from Oliver. I wish they actually had her express a POV to somebody (like what she's doing with Iris now) instead of just a lingering look and a bit of a pout. Then there's the comment at her mini-crossover on The Flash about the last time they tried to get (fake) married. In retrospect, I'm wondering if her "are you sure? this is what you want?" to Oliver when he gave her the key was also a symptom of her being gunshy.

As for Oliver, Stephen sold that "Again? Yeah" after Barry asked if he thought about making it official with Felicity. He made me think he'd just been biding his time ever since he gave Felicity that goofy keychain. 

Do I wish these were all made clear in Arrow episodes. Absolutely. But I don't expect much from Arrow anymore.

I agree that they’ve been laying the groundwork work of Oliver’s eagerness to move forward and Felicity’s reluctance. Though, perhaps a little too subtly. Felicity has been hesitant and unsure for every step forward they’ve taken this season. 

I actually really liked the Olicity drama, even though I usually want them drama free and adorable. It was organic, it wasn’t overwrought, and it didn’t make me want to smack either of them. I can see where each is coming from and I can empathize with both. Felicity is scared of doing anything because of how things have blown up in the past, and Oliver is hurt and confused that he’s finally ready to really live and the person who’s been pushing him to do just that for years appears to be pulling back. They’re a little out of step right now, but they’ll figure it out. 

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

At least Overgirl appears to have proactively headed off that whole "you cheated on me with my sister?!?" thing.

Well, we don't exactly know WHY KaraX's sister tried to kill her, lol.  

Edited November 28, 2017 by BkWurm1

[johntfs]

34 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Was he aware at the time there was an Earth full of Nazis who had, or were trying to acquire, some sort of breaching ability of their own and failed to mention it? Because I'd like to think that would come up in conversation. "By the way guys, once we stop your evil speedster and close all these dimensional doorways, there is a Nazi Earth you might want to worry about."

Would you really have wanted to mention the existence of Earth-X to Barry "Let's charge the fuck in and figure it out later" Allen?  If he did, he'd run the risk of giving breeching power/technology to that pack of psychopaths.  I don't think even Zoom would have wanted to risk that.

[KenyaJ]

12 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I actually really liked the Olicity drama, even though I usually want them drama free and adorable. It was organic, it wasn’t overwrought, and it didn’t make me want to smack either of them. 

One of the reviews in the media thread noted that this time, their drama is rooted in honesty rather than deception, which I thought was a great observation.

[KirkB]

6 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Would you really have wanted to mention the existence of Earth-X to Barry "Let's charge the fuck in and figure it out later" Allen?  If he did, he'd run the risk of giving breeching power/technology to that pack of psychopaths.  I don't think even Zoom would have wanted to risk that.

Heh. Fair point.  :) Though they obviously figured out the breaching thing on their own.

Speaking of, was there was a mention in one of the episodes so far (or perhaps it will be explained tonight) that I missed how they were able to travel between worlds? That usually takes someone like Cisco.

[johntfs]

2 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Though they obviously figured out the breaching thing on their own.

Actually, they didn't.  The rebels on their world figured it out with the presumable idea of using it to get help from other Earths.  The Nazis took it from them.  Which kind of makes sense since the Nazis would have murdered people like Cisco, Martin Stein, Curtis, Felicity or Ray Palmer for being Black, Gay, Hispanic, Jewish, etc.  The Rebels would have been happy to get anyone they could. 

[ParadoxLost]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I did wonder why we got Thawne instead of Evil Barry for the Earth-X speedster.  But then I wonder if they thought we had already suffered from an evil Barry (Savitar) last year and didn't want to revisit that so early?

Not having an evil Barry has a lot of implications for Oliver, none of them good.

The problem is that this is a world where the SS won the war and the butterfly effect is that the world is the same enough that Oliver is still the Arrow but he's a really bad guy.

I got the general feeling that Barry isn't going to show up evil (maybe he died with his mother on Earth X).   Supergirl being fully evil plus the radiation tracking kind of points at some kind of krypton-like substance altering situation/excuse.  The concerns that XOliver might choose XSupergirl over the fuhrer points more towards in the wrong circumstances, Oliver could go evil Nazi.  I do not like that implication.

I don't think they implied that intentionally, but I'm hoping not everyone else who has a doppelganger on Earth X shows up as part of the resistance. 

[BkWurm1]

54 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Heh. Fair point.  :) Though they obviously figured out the breaching thing on their own.

Speaking of, was there was a mention in one of the episodes so far (or perhaps it will be explained tonight) that I missed how they were able to travel between worlds? That usually takes someone like Cisco.

I suppose Thawne from E1 takes care of their ability to travel between worlds.  Not only how he got there but I'd expect him to also be able to science up a device if Cisco could.  

[tennisgurl]

You know, I wish that, for once, writers could come up with some other Alternate Universe What If story. I get why they decided to pick "Nazis win WWII" here, as it leads to lots of bad guys to fight and a clear evil to defeat, but why is it that the only two possible scenarios anyone seems to come up with are "Axis wins WWII" and "South wins Civil War"? I get that those are very drama filled, but there are so many other, rally interesting AU stories they could tell with 52 worlds, I hope that we can eventually do something different. Like, what is the American revolution never happened, and the US stayed a British colony? Or what is the Russian Revolution was defeated, and the USSR was never created? Or what if the Huns made it all the way to western Europe? Or if the world dominant religion became Hinduism because some guy slipped on a banana peel in India or something? There are so many other options besides those two damn it! 

[catrox14]

Because it's mostly for shortcuts to evil non Satan division. Like it doesn't require a lot of explanation why the bad guys need to lose. JMHO.

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You know, I wish that, for once, writers could come up with some other Alternate Universe What If story. I get why they decided to pick "Nazis win WWII" here, as it leads to lots of bad guys to fight and a clear evil to defeat, but why is it that the only two possible scenarios anyone seems to come up with are "Axis wins WWII" and "South wins Civil War"? I get that those are very drama filled, but there are so many other, rally interesting AU stories they could tell with 52 worlds, I hope that we can eventually do something different. Like, what is the American revolution never happened, and the US stayed a British colony? Or what is the Russian Revolution was defeated, and the USSR was never created? Or what if the Huns made it all the way to western Europe? Or if the world dominant religion became Hinduism because some guy slipped on a banana peel in India or something? There are so many other options besides those two damn it! 

[tennisgurl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Because it's mostly for shortcuts to evil non Satan division. Like it doesn't require a lot of explanation why the bad guys need to lose. JMHO.

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, I do totally get that, and like I said, I get why they did that here (and in other action based shows), but it would be cool in the future to change it up. Maybe in another episode they have to fight a threat on an Earth where the Roman Empire never fell? Maybe its not a super evil world or anything, they just hang out there and see what its like. I think that would be really cool. 

[LeighAn]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Because it's mostly for shortcuts to evil non Satan division. Like it doesn't require a lot of explanation why the bad guys need to lose. JMHO.

Smallville did an evil world alternate reality where Clark was raised a killer by Lionel Luther and that didn't require much explanation. They just had a few lines about it being a dark mirror world and carried on with their "Hey look evil Clark/everyone thinks Clarks evil" shenanigans. 

[popgoesculture]

11 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I enjoyed the fight scene in the church, not so much the warehouse ones. But all these fights just reinforced to me why Arrow really should stay away from powers, and why it needs to kick powered characters on its show to the curb. He just can't compete, not with people shooting fires out of their hands and eyes. I mean, Oliver is an amazing fighter and, when writers remember, a very smart fighter but that's still nothing compared with actual powers. 

I agree: Oliver always loses out in these fight scenes. And Arrow is so incredibly inconsistent about how good of a fighter he is -- can't defeat League assassins but oh wait, suddenly it's super easy, but still can't take down random dude of the week.

Weirdly, Sara shines for me in these big fight scenes. She's so much more fun to watch than any of the glowy/fire-y/shooting people. She stands out despite not having any additional powers. 

[bethy]

I totally agree with others who have said SA was MVP for this episode. (I know that this was the Supergirl episode, but I actually got tears in my eyes at the expression on his face when Felicity kind of shouted that she didn’t want to marry him.) 

 

I love how he’s playing Nazi Oliver. It’s not scene-chewing, frothing at the mouth evil. There’s a weight, almost a sadness(?) to him. He’s playing a character, not a caricature, and it’s really, really good. And yeah. He and MB are like wet rags in the chemistry department. 

[DigitalCount]

TBH I think the reason why as to "why Nazis" is because the first episode in the team-up was Supergirl, and, well, subtlety is no longer a concern over there. It's a way to address the current American political climate with regard to the acceptance of Nazis (I hope that doesn't run afoul of any rules on the board, because it seems obvious that this was the intention on the showrunners' part). I did like that certain characters (Felicity, Martin, and Jax in particular) seemed more horrified since they were more likely to be personally touched by this.

[misgabi13]

23 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Cisco is knocked the heck out. How did he get such a bad concussion! 

It's probably called story telling and Cisco will wake up in time to save the day!

[wingster55]

I feel like this episode did Barry and Iris dirty. 

Barry barely got to react to his greatest enemy pop back into his life...again. Iris was written as passive. She wouldn't spin in a chair and wait for other...she would go out and find a way to be helpful and involved. 

The sole WA scene had to be interrupted by Oliver, of course. His spiel about cherishing each other was crap. Hello, they already do. If that's how Iris is written on Arrow...no thanks. 

They both had to comfort Olicity about their troubles...but nobody really asked how they were doing or tried to comfort them. 

[Bruinsfan]

As for the Nazi thing, remember that these CW properties have DC Comics as the source material. Earth-X was a setting element involved in some of the big crossover "Crisis on..." events in that medium, it's only natural for the TV shows to mine it for storylines.

[Delphi]

I'm currently a bit behind on crossover antics and I'm just reading the board to keep up.   But yikes,  people seem grumpy on the other boards about having to know about the other shows, yet I don't watch Supergirl or the Flash and thought that they did a pretty good job of mixing all the characters together. 

[DeadZeus]

Nazis were more fun than aliens for sure... I mean in this crossover ofc

14 hours ago, popgoesculture said:

I agree: Oliver always loses out in these fight scenes. And Arrow is so incredibly inconsistent about how good of a fighter he is -- can't defeat League assassins but oh wait, suddenly it's super easy, but still can't take down random dude of the week.

Weirdly, Sara shines for me in these big fight scenes. She's so much more fun to watch than any of the glowy/fire-y/shooting people. She stands out despite not having any additional powers. 

I disagree. They need to let Oliver be able to beat metas. That should show how strong he is. I mean... He actually one upped Overgirl.. But it was on accident. It would have been cooler if he knew that mirror was behind him (there is 0 indication that he knows this). That would be a cool way he outsmarts her.. But it was a total fluke.

I want to see Meta's in Arrow... But only if Oliver can actually beat hem by being awesome.. Not if he gets his ass kicked. Beating meta's should really be a testament of his skills IMO. Only giving him weaklings is kinda lame...

Edited November 29, 2017 by DeadZeus