S03.E21: Snow Drifts/S03.E22: There's No Place Like Home

[Phillygurl]

Honestly I don't think Regina's reaction was that evil. Ever since Regina has joined #teamgoodguys, she has always been her own brand of good. If people are expecting her to react in a way that Snow would have reacted, it would be completely out of character for her. As a woman, I know that if I saw the man I was falling in love with reunite with his long lost (thought to be dead) wife and mother of his child, I would really be hurt. There is no way to compete with that. I don't think there are many people in this situation whose initial reaction would be joy for the happy reunited family.

 

Regina has always had edge whether good or evil and her defense of pain has always been anger. She didn't threaten Emma like I expected her to and she actually had enough reason to mention that Emma better not have brought anything else back showing that she was also thinking bigger picture and not just about her own unhappiness after all. She had every reason to be upset and Emma really should have thought of the consequences.

 

All of that being said, I don't think Regina will go back to being Evil because she still has Henry and since Tinkerbell said that Robin was her chance for happiness, I don't think Marian and Robin will be end game.

[MedievalGirl]

Somewhere out there is Marion's true love. Don't be dead!

[stealinghome]

And the entire, "that's not Regina, that's the Evil Queen" stuff pissed me off.  Regina is psychotic probably, but she doesn't have multiple personality disorder.  They are the same person, and it's ridiculous for the characters to act like they're not.

Crimson Belle, so much word to this. No, Adam and Eddie, pretending that Regina and the Evil Queen are two separate people doesn't make Regina as innocent as a little lamb, nor does it make her anything less than fully responsible for all the evil she did.

 

I couldn't believe that Emma didn't even blink at the fact that she saw Regina threaten a bunch of innocent people, be about to murder Marian, and actually murder Snow. Let's repeat: for a few hours, Emma thought Regina murdered Snow. She certainly saw that Regina was more than happy to do so. And yet Emma didn't even blink when she got back to Storybrooke. jfc. There's forgiveness and then there's the Regina Lobotomy.

 

Somewhere out there is Marion's true love. Don't be dead!

I'm still kind of holding out for Robin and Marian being True Loves. The show has been careful not to say that he's Regina's True Love, after all. Tinkerbelle has called Robin Regina's "soulmate" and "Happily Ever After," but has noticeably stayed away from True Love. It's been Regina who's been making the leap to True Love. I think that may be significant (or it may not be...this IS Once, after all).

Edited May 12, 2014 by stealinghome

[NCChic]

Purse speculation here, but what if Katherine (Midas' daughter) is Elsa? She's always come across (to me) as a bit of a frozen personality. Did her true love ever get saved? I've forgotten.

 

Of course, it would depend on the actress' availabitlity - I think she's on Ripper treet on BBC America??

[tatterd]

 

I'm sure this won't endear me to anyone but I think in order for Gold to become interesting again as a character, Belle has to disappear or even die for a while.

 

I'm totally fine with that idea, and personally my preference is for the permanent option.

 

I find the Regina/Robin thing a bit icky now.  Ok she probably killed so many people she didn't really know who any of them were, and I'm presuming Robin didn't know as even his forgiving and good-hearted nature surely wouldn't stretch that far (even if he does appear to be the male equivalent of Belle on occasion).  But it's still a bit off and if she holds a grudge about her happy ending being taken away from her, that is possibly even lamer than her grudge against Snow.

[Winged Nike]

 

Purse speculation here, but what if Katherine (Midas' daughter) is Elsa? She's always come across (to me) as a bit of a frozen personality. Did her true love ever get saved? I've forgotten.

 

In the Enchanted Forrest, I think David helped save him from being a gold statue and he was turned back into a humna. In Storybrooke, we saw him once as a teacher with Snow but I don't think we ever saw them reunite after their memories were restored.

[thuganomics85]

Finally saw the finale; I loved the majority of it, until the whole "Prince Neal" revealed, and then it was just a parade of silly stuff to set-up for next season.  The mysterious woman Emma saved was Marion, so we'll now have a potential love triangle with her, Robin, and Regina (although, I would have to think that Regina "executing her" in the original timeline would be a hell of an issue), and maybe even Regina will go back onto a dark path.  Rumpel and Belle married, even though he still is lying to her, and keeping the fact he almost just boned all of them a secret from everyone (and Archie can officiate weddings, too?  That cricket is full of surprises.)  And, of course, the final shot.  Since I haven't' seen Frozen yet, I could care less that it's a character from that film.  I just hope she will be different then past antagonists.

 

Besides that, I actually loved the Adventures of Hook and Emma in the past, and having to fix what they kept fucking up.  Those two really are just fun together, IMO.  And, shallowly, Jennifer Morrison sure looks good in those corsets.  I especially loved when they had to deal with the other Hook, and how much Current Hook didn't like what he used to be.  Overall, a fun story, although I was surprised that it was saved for the finale, because it was almost stand-alone, in a lot of ways.  I think a lot of viewers could tune in, and figure things out, without seeing the past episodes.

 

Of course, I loved the return of some old favorites like Archie, Geppetto, Blue Fairy, and, Ruby/Red!!!  I guess this must have been around when Intelligence was done filming, so they got Meghan Ory back.  It was great to see her again, and I hope she will be coming back next season.

 

Overall, I found this season to be an improvement over the second one, but it still has it's issues.  Mainly, it starts and ends strong, but it really suffers in the middle of theirs seasons.  But this cast alone really keeps me tuned back in.

[Kromm]

There could be some meta-irony if they do somehow cast Kristen Bell as Live Action Anna (unlikely), and Emma has a moment of recognition where she's puzzled why this new character looks a lot like Veronica Mars.

[myril]

Purse speculation here, but what if Katherine (Midas' daughter) is Elsa? She's always come across (to me) as a bit of a frozen personality. Did her true love ever get saved? I've forgotten.

 

Of course, it would depend on the actress' availabitlity - I think she's on Ripper treet on BBC America??

 

 

In the Enchanted Forrest, I think David helped save him from being a gold statue and he was turned back into a humna. In Storybrooke, we saw him once as a teacher with Snow but I don't think we ever saw them reunite after their memories were restored.

 

David helped to save him, getting the water from Lake Nostros, killing the Siren guarding it, which though lead to the lake falling dry and them being not able to safe his mother later. And her name was given as Abigail. So, no. Unless King Midas as a second daughter.

 

Didn't expect because thanks to Star Trek have by now a sort of allergic reaction to time travel, but I even enjoyed this episode. No wonder anymore, why Jennifer Morrison loved making these so much. Plenty of Emma in it, and a lot of different emotions and emotions to show. Morrison did a great job. And yeah for a glimpse into Emma's foster past. Had some fun with Emma and Hook banter. As well had fun with how they used the same lines now differently due to the changes in the story. Guess when rewatching will get big time continuity, loopholes and story logic headaches, but for a moment I choose to be oblivious to whatever.

 

Saw the twist with Marian coming the moment she was on screen, but find it interesting. Not seeing yet though that Regina will go all crazy evil over that again. Yes, her first reaction was hurt, bad, but that is Regina, rash to lash out first and reflect later. Don't mind some rekindled tension with Emma, but doubt Regina will go all evil again.

 

Barely noticde that Neal was in a flashback, still don't care much about the character and don't mind he's gone. But liked that Emma got her line about home being the place when you leave you miss it from Neal.

 

Rumple is up to no good as long as he is the Dark One. But Belle said she loves even the Dark One, so. Still think that she is reduced to be his love and wish they would give her more of a story on her own.

 

So Frozen is coming to Storybrooke. Bringing in Elsa intrigues me. Just don't find the umpteenth version of Arthur and Camelot, or 1001 Nights that interesting (the latter only if telling some of the unknown stories), and I have made my peace with OUaT being more of a pop culture storybook Disney fanfiction than digging into classical fairy tales and fairy tales from all over the world. So open to see what they'll make of Elsa.

Edited May 12, 2014 by katusch

[P2C2E]

Sigh...

 

Still no answer to The Disappearing Door. And to be honest, I know it's a small thing but it really irritates me. If they decided to cut out the culmination of that story thread, for whatever reason, then they should have also cut the shot of that door. It would have been a really easy split. I thought the time travel might figure into it, but nada. So, either they're really lazy about editing their own show or they plan to answer it next season. And I'm not looking for another Lost. 

[cycworker]

I loved last night's episode. I personally do ship OutlawQueen so I was bummed that Emma brought Marian back. But as I was telling a friend, that's the soapiest soap contrivance ever, so to me it's just further proof that they (OQ) belong together. 

 

I loved a lot of the humour last night. 

 

I'm intrigued by where they may go with Frozen. 

[bourbon]

Well, I enjoyed it as much as I have anything this season, as long as I don't think about it too hard.  I don't know which one of us was squeeing louder, me or my tweenager.  Loved the Captain Swan hook-up.  I'd lost interest in the 'ship recently, but they did a nice job of bringing me back on board.  I thought it was a nice parallel to what Hook said about Emma having the chance to see her parents fall in love.  I felt as if the viewer had the chance to see her fall in love with him.  So many nice emotional beats...the ball, her comforting him over Snow's death, her opening up to him.  I've found her pretty humorless and insufferable at times this season, but she was spunky and open and fun, and I could finally understand what Hook might see in her other than her admittedly impressive corseted bosom.  Hopefully TPTB will let them have some happiness next season before inevitably tearing them apart.  Just don't let the reason be that Emma randomly decides that he Can't. Be. Trusted.  Again.  

 

As for the redemption of Regina, I can't say it bothers me.  She might be irredeemable IRL, but it's a TV show and a TV show about fairytales.  It's not relevant to me whether not *I* would forgive her, but if I believe the *characters* would forgive her.  That said, I've believed up until now that the Storybrooke denizens would forgive her, but I don't see how Robin would forgive her.  I'm not sure I'd want him to.  I'll take a happy, intact family any day over him ditching his wife and kid for his supposed soulmate.  (Speaking of Marian...I don't see her keeping mum on Snow White and facing execution when she could give her up and possibly have the chance to get back to her son.  But maybe I'm projecting.)

 

Not sure how I feel about Elsa's arrival.  I think there's a lot to mine in the characters and their relationships without going back to the Big Bad well.  It's so tired and yawn-inducing.  How many times can we watch a villain(ness) cast a curse that Can't Be Broken until to have it broken by some random and illogical last-minute bit of good magic?  Considering how tired I am of the formula already, I think I know the answer to that question.   Plus I'd prefer to see the characters interact more with each other.  And by interacting I basically mean Emma and Hook making out.  Mileages vary wildly.  

[Happy to be here]

One thing that I found interesting.  The Evil Queen told Outlaw Snow White when Snow told her that she was just a child that Snow had not learned the basic lesson of life that actions had consequences.  I think that is a theme of the episode because it seems neither did her daughter.  Even being told several times that changing the past is a bad bad thing and maybe letting the nameless stranger die was the right thing to do but Emma just had to do "the right thing" and save her.    That is the weird thing about the Charming in general.  They will do "the right thing"  no matter who it hurts.  Anyway  Emma was warned...Emma was warned alot not to mess with the past but of course she had to and of course their actions are going to have consequences.    I actually don't blame Regina for being angry at all.    

Edited May 12, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[Petunia846]

Well I think I enjoyed these two episodes more than any others this season. What fun to see Emma get to see all that and Hook there with her. Loved them dealing with Past!Hook and her disgusted/shocked expression when she saw Rumple for the first time was hilarious. Almost as good as her seeing a dragon face.

I did not see the bit with Marion coming, though it seems like I should have. Of course Regina's mind first went to how what Emma did was just like what her mother did, my mind went there immediately too. Hopefully, after her first response she'll get back to some of the maturity she's developed.

The only thing I seriously hated was the baby name. Really? Neal's not even that great a name. I'd be more forgiving if they'd named it Bae or Baelfire. Ugg. Poor kid.

That Rumbelle wedding was weird with no one there, but I liked her outfit actually, and I liked their vows. The bit about the dusty book or the chipped cup was a great line.

This finale actually felt like they weren't sure they were going to get renewed. If they'd gotten canceled, they could have ended with that montage where everyone was happy (Hook and Emma kissing, Regina walking with Robin, the wedding, etc) and then filled in the extra minutes earlier in the episode with some extra footage. That would have been a pretty okay place to end the series actually.

[Shanna Marie]

Even being told several times that changing the past is a bad bad thing and maybe letting the nameless stranger die was the right thing to do but Emma just had to do "the right thing" and save her.

But she thought that since she was supposed to die, bringing her to the present wouldn't change the past. And it didn't. It just changed the present going forward. And it was Regina's consequences coming home to roost. She shouldn't be able to find happiness and true love with the man whose wife she executed.

[stealinghome]

And it was Regina's consequences coming home to roost. She shouldn't be able to find happiness and true love with the man whose wife she executed.

THIS.

I don't see how Emma saving an innocent woman from death, and reuniting that woman with her son and husband, is anything other than a good thing. Seriously. Sorry if it sucks that for *once* Regina has to face the consequences of *her own actions*, but I will NEVER consider saving an innocent's life and reuniting that innocent with her family to be a bad thing.

That said, I'm also totally expecting them to kill Marian off or make her evil to prop the boring, rushed, mostly chemistry-free Outlaw Queen. But my point still stands.

[shapeshifter]

Hey! They reminded us in this episode that Regina *never saw Robin's face, only his tattoo* ...sooo, maybe someone else has the same tattoo, and is Regina's real soulmate!

[Dani-Ellie]

I just did a rewatch after anxiously going about my workday waiting for it to end so I could get home and do my rewatch (I think I might have a problem, you guys) and I still found this fairy-tale Back to the Future ridiculously fun and enjoyable. (In the interest of full disclosure, the way I am about Once now is how I was about Back to the Future when I was in junior high, so I was kind of destined to love this anyway.) I really liked that, minus the two Emma flashbacks at the top of each hour, they just let the story unfold. It was such a relief to let the story breathe for a bit, and I think flashbacks (or forwards or sideways or what have you) would have made me impatient.

 

ETA: And speaking of Back to the Future, I'm totally taking Smee's line about Hook's vest changing as a nod to Back to the Future II whether it was intentional or not. 'Cause when Biff's gang chases Marty into the gym where the Enchantment Under the Sea dance is in full swing and mistakes First Movie Marty on the stage for Second Movie Marty, one of the guys wonders how Marty changed clothes so fast, heh.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Helena Dax]

 

sooo, maybe someone else has the same tattoo, and is Regina's real soulmate!

I like that. Maybe king Richard? Or Will Scarlett?

 

The relationship between Rumple and Bella is so dysfunctional they were married by a therapist.

 

Loved every scene with Hook and Emma. The bit of sadness in Hook's eyes every time he looked at Emma was killing me. Thank God she realized at last how great he is. And I liked Emma a lot in this episode. I can't imagine how touching the experience was for her and she seemed to be enjoying her life as Fairy Tale Princess (most of the time).

 

Lady Marian was a total surprise for me. I don't know why, I thought she could be Pocahontas. Anyway, while I'm sorry for Regina (she might be evil, but she's also a fabulous character and I like her for that), I agree that  lady Marian's presence at Storybrooke is a good thing on itself. And I also agree that Regina seems to forget  quite often her own lesson about facing the consecuences.

 

I haven't seen Frozen yet, so I'm not that excited about fourth season, but I enjoyed this finale a lot. It wasn't about defeating the Big Bad Guy (Witch) and I really appreciate that. The writers should try this kind of story more often . 

[kat3281]

What is really ironic is that Emma's efforts to NOT change history is what ultimately got Regina so angry. Once Maid Marian was saved, Emma realized she could not just let her go live her life because it could change history and they decided to bring her to the future, ensuring nothing changed. If she had just let her go back to her family, Regina and Robin would never have been together in the first place and Regina would never know she once did an a different timeline. Even if they did still run into each other during the past year and she saw the tattoo, it would have been a case of lost opportunities. So Emma trying to do the right thing by first saving someone from certain death just for not ratting out her mother and bringing her to the future to ensure that save didn't change history led to Emma being blamed for everything by Regina yet again.

[Grammaeryn]

After a re-watch, a couple things really stood out to me. I loved Emma looking for Snow in the tree after she realized she was seeing The First Meeting. It went from, "Hey I know this, so mom should be.. ah ha", with this childlike happiness that was so sweet. Rumple's delivery of "You changed something.  Okay what did you change?" was hilarious along with his jabs at the amateur time travelers. Conking Marion on the head was guffaw worthy too. I just want Hook, Emma and Henry on a houseboat next season!

 

If you want to be a realist and straight, Regina the Queen was basically Pol Pot/Mussolini in terms of dictatorship and murder. But this is a fairy tale so murder and mental illness ain't in play. But justice/karma is voila Marion. Also, I've seen Frozen and I know Elsa was treated as the villain by others in the story but she was just a girl who had powers she couldn't control. I'm curious if OUAT will go villainess route or another way....

[shapeshifter]

The relationship between Rumple and Bella is so dysfunctional they were married by a therapist.

Ha! I hope that is the message the writers were selling, because I am totally buying it.

BTW, I know a lot of people didn't like Belle's wedding outfit, but that was the only thing I've ever liked in the whole Rumpbelle story.

A lot of the plots on the show seem hell bent on turning basic common sense and/or morality on their heads. But Hook's love for Emma seems to be the one exception. There is nothing he wouldn't sacrifice for her. I suppose that's a little wrong too, but I hope they keep it like that and don't screw it up.

[HistoryGirl]

FROZEN is totally a Disney concoction, and so is Elsa. I guess it doesn't matter to most people, but this is certainly taking OUAT away from its roots in classic tales for me.

 

Technically speaking, Frozen is based off of Hans Christian Andersen's "The Snow Queen".  Yes, it's loosely based, but so was the Little Mermaid and Aladdin.  It is still a fairy tale and I'm curious if OUAT will go more toward the HCA version of the story. It would be funny though if they hooked Kristen Bell for Elsa (even though she played Anna in the film, she has Elsa's lighter features in real life).  I must say that the actress they got for that last scene had Elsa's cartoon swagger down to a "T".  

 

 I like that. Maybe king Richard? Or Will Scarlett?

 

Will Scarlett exists in OUAT-world via OUAT:Wonderland.  He's quite a bit younger than Regina, more in the 19/20-something range, rather than the 30/40-something range.  I must say though, the actor that plays Will Scarlett/the Knave is fantastic and was the highlight of the dreadful mess that was OUAT:Wonderland. 

 

I'm confused by the sequence of events of Robin/Marian. If Marian was set to die the next day and let's assume that she'd had the kid already-- wouldn't he be easily in his 30s?  He'd technically have to be older than Emma.  Robin for sure was outside of the curse, as was his son, so shouldn't he have aged normally?  Or am I reading way too much into this?  Also, I thought Marian died of some curse or disease rather than burned at the stake. I wonder if Emma had just let her go free in FTL would things have gone the way they were meant to go just the same?  It seems like bringing her back to Storybrooke is what screwed the whole timeline up for Robin. 

[Gel]

But Hook's love for Emma seems to be the one exception. There is nothing he wouldn't sacrifice for her. I suppose that's a little wrong too, but I hope they keep it like that and don't screw it up.

Yes, please. Please, please don't screw it up. I'm so tired of crime drama, realism, dramatic pause twists, cross, double-cross, betrayal-because-it-is-keeping-it-real, and the whole one-upsmanship in the delving into darkness of the human soul that seems to be the thing to do in scripts these days. I realize working in TV these days is a bit like living the life of Scheherazade, but please don't kill the tale you are telling by embellishing and twisting it until all the happiness is gone and it is an empty shell of its former promise.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Gel

[Kromm]

Technically speaking, Frozen is based off of Hans Christian Andersen's "The Snow Queen".  Yes, it's loosely based, but so was the Little Mermaid and Aladdin. 

The biggest difference with The Little Mermaid is that she's got no name in the HCA tale, and of course the introduction of a whole supporting cast other than the King, the Sea Witch, and the human Prince.  Aladdin's mainly reversed from the actual story so that it becomes about him earning marriage to the princess and saving the kingdom rather than the convoluted story in the original tales, where it's more like a series of related adventures.

 

As far as I recall, the only commonality between Frozen and The Snow Queen is that there's a major character who's a queen who commands ice and snow.  Other than that?  I think there's absolutely nothing.  Not a name.  Nor a prop.  Nor a setting.  Nothing.  

 

Oh wait, I DO think the original story has something with a Troll (a singular one).  So there is that one.  Sort of.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kromm

[legaleagle53]

I know nothing about Frozen and haven't read any spoilers (if there even are any regarding next season), but what if this is a tease for Narnia? There was that icy queen woman in that film...

 

It's Elsa.  The show doesn't have the rights to Narnia.

[Joystickenvy]

I was enjoying the episode right up to the point where it dawned on me that the mystery woman was going to be Marion and Regina would blame Emma for RUINING MY LIFE!

However, the fact that Snow did point out how stupid Regina's reasons for blaming her were in the time travel sequence gives me a shred of hope that Emma will be like bitch please.....and not be all groveling at Regina's feet for breaking her up with the dude who's wife Regina murdered. Regina can revert back to evil or not, as long as everyone is not acting like Regina is the innocent victim of the evil Charming family.

I also think reminding us about the tattoo may be a hint that Robin wasn't actually her one true love anyway and there is in fact somebody else out there with that same tattoo.

Haven't seen Frozen, so I don't care one way or the other there and don't blame them for trying to make hay while the sun shines.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[myril]

The biggest difference with The Little Mermaid is that she's got no name in the HCA tale, and of course the introduction of a whole supporting cast other than the King, the Sea Witch, and the human Prince. 

It was a tragic love story by Andersen, the little Mermaid didn't get the love of her prince and died in the end, even though Andersen described that as a kind of happy ending for her, because she becomes a "daughter of the air". Would call that the biggest difference.

 

But even though I might have agreed in the first season, the show is not a show about classical fairy tales, let alone playing with original ones (then Sleeping Beauty should have been about a king raping sleeping beauty, she getting pregnant and being woken up by her new born children, Snow White's mother should have been the Evil Queen trying to kill her own daughter). Peter Pan and The Wizard of Oz might be in some places classical tales for children but don't classify that much as fairy tales in my opinion, and if, so most certainly does Star Wars. Frankenstein is classical horror science fiction and seemed quite displaced in OUaT at first. Emma and Henry have not even any storybook equivalent, no matter how hard some people tried to connect them to any more known fairy tale or even less known one. I don't see that the show breaks any of it's own "rules" here with Frozen, it's not going against a founding charter of Storybrooke, they have used different resources for inspiration for their stories during all of the show. Might not like it that way, but the show was never restraint to adaptions of classical literature and for sure not to fairy tales.

 

I'm confused by the sequence of events of Robin/Marian. If Marian was set to die the next day and let's assume that she'd had the kid already-- wouldn't he be easily in his 30s?  He'd technically have to be older than Emma.  Robin for sure was outside of the curse, as was his son, so shouldn't he have aged normally?  Or am I reading way too much into this?  Also, I thought Marian died of some curse or disease rather than burned at the stake. I wonder if Emma had just let her go free in FTL would things have gone the way they were meant to go just the same?  It seems like bringing her back to Storybrooke is what screwed the whole timeline up for Robin. 

 

They were not outside of the curse, they were inside the dome Cora created. And all what that dome did was to prevent them from being taken to Storybrooke. The Dark Curse still effected them in freezing time for them, putting them into a time loop more or less in which they didn't age, but they didn't have fake new identities.

 

It was never specified how Marian died. She got sick, probably cursed, while pregnant with Roland, and Robin went to steal the wand from Rumple to save her. Belle serving Rumple at that time, saved Robin and Robin saved his pregnant wife. These events must have played out a couple of months before Marian refused to betray where Snow is and Regina wanted to execute her, what Emma now stopped from being done. The past was in a way not altered, because Marian was gone and Robin believed she was killed and that that somehow was his fault. Emma altered elements of the timeline, the way they played out, but the important key moments still happened in a way, so Storybrooke and Emma came to be as before.

 

If the Cora dome made that much sense is a different matter. Even less now that we've learned, that Hook somehow outrun the new Dark Curse, and before that Ariel and Eric somehow where in a place out of the curse's reach (what, was Blackbeard able to travel realms?). Not to mention, where and with who did Hook trade the Jolly Roger for a magical bean? Was Tiny able to grow a new crop up in the cloud, and was that a place not effected by the curse again, where he stayed with some folks?

 

And why should it matter for Rumple to drink that forgetting potion considering he is able to see pieces of the future anyway, or has he somehow lost his abilities he stole from the seer? Or why did he brew it in the first place, he believed in fate and destiny didn't he, so what should knowing a few more things change about that? Can buy that maybe in the moment he learned that Bae died in the future as hero he wanted to forget that immediately out of pain, but still doesn't answer, why he made the potion in the first place. It was a nice funny line Rumple had there in the vault, but the forgetting potion plot made no sense.All for letting Emma say once to him, she loved Neal? That was so contrived.

Edited May 13, 2014 by katusch

[NJ RadioGuy]

So much win in this finale but I do have a couple of comments. Leia....Dang, I knew they'd find a way to Disney-Princessify her <g>. I squeed.

 

There are two types of SF/fantasy stories that I generally love. Fish-out-of-Universe stories and redemption arcs. Tonight we got both, with a little time travel on the side for good measure. The penny dropped with Marion the instant she didn't give her name. I saw it coming 90 minutes away, hoping against hope I was wrong, knowing that character's story had exactly two possible outcomes; the one we saw or Edith Keeler, from Star Trek's City On The Edge of Forever. I honestly don't know which one would have hurt more.

 

My current passion in storytelling is A Song Of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones. There have been exactly two scenes on television that I was devastated watching, and which left me in tears. "Lady" in GoT, and the reveal of Marion, in front of everyone in the diner. You could see the exact heartbeat when Regina's world came crashing down. Yes, I'm happy for Robin seeing his beloved again, for Marion to see her son and to rediscover a family she believed lost. She stood up for Snow, faced an almost certain death (in the most greusome way possible) and clearly deserved her "Happily Ever After" as much as any character, major or minor.

 

And yet.

 

I was as devastated for Regina as Regina was herself. OUAT is a story that really revolves around family and good triumphing over evil at the end of the day (or season). As such, what does Regina need to do to earn her soulmate? She's not Cersei Lannister, although she's done far more monstrous things in FTL in the past. But in this show's world she's proven herself time and again both against Zelena and in Neverland and has undoubtedly saved a lot of lives in the process. I don't want to see EvilRegina again in present-day, despite how Lana rocks black leather in ways that could raise the dead.

 

Do I think Regina will revert, and do unto Emma what she did to Snow? No, that's quite unlikely. At least I hope that's the case. But while there's "not incinerating or black-magicking Emma to a fate worse than death," there's something almost as bad in "never trusting her again and blaming her for her second broken heart/lost love, and I truly fear we're headed down that road. After all, how can you possibly reconcile this situation in any way that everybody wins? Either Regina loses her soulmate but Marion, Robin and their son, who have never been evil, get their happiness, or else Robin rejects Marion to be with Regina, which would blacken his heart in a way, and I doubt he'd do it willingly. I think it'll once again be up to Henry to bridge the Emma-Regina chasm, but how is beyond me.

 

And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be Tink right about now. Well, as a 52 YO guy in New Jersey, I don't think there's any conceivable way I'd ever want to be Tink, but you know what I mean <g>.

[shapeshifter]

what does Regina need to do to earn her soulmate? ...

Either Regina loses her soulmate but Marion, Robin and their son, who have never been evil, get their happiness, or else Robin rejects Marion to be with Regina...

And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be Tink right about now

Robin can't be the only one with that tattoo. See my post above.

legaleagle, I think that was you who posted on TWoP that the RumpBelle wedding didn't have enough witnesses to be valid. Interesting. Well, actually, that is the most interesting thing about that wedding, to me.

[myril]

And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be Tink right about now.

Tinkerbell only followed the fairy dust. Not her fault that destiny seems to have a beef with Regina, or a wicked sense of humor.

 

Speaking of wicked. Zelena might have not accomplished all she might have wanted to, but she managed to destroy or seriously threaten Regina's happiness in a way now.

 

It amuses me somewhat, that they avoided so hard to give Marian's name in this episode, she was played after all by the same actress in 2x19 Lacey (Christie Laing). Did they count on people's bad memory? Oh, right, Regina couldn't know that she had Robin's wife in her dungeon and killed her, or wanted at least to kill her in the A timeline, before the big tragic reveal in the future, or presence.

Edited May 13, 2014 by katusch

[stealinghome]

Did they count on people's bad memory?

Yes. Which, to be fair, seems to have worked (don't forget that we never got a close-up of Marian's face in the fairyback). Most unspoiled people were STUNNED that she was Marian.

[myril]

Yes. Which, to be fair, seems to have worked (don't forget that we never got a close-up of Marian's face in the fairyback). Most unspoiled people were STUNNED that she was Marian.

There was a close-up. Rewatched the episode 2x19 by now particular for that. Didn't know the name of the actress, but looked it up, and it is not in the opening credits of this episode, or in the press-release, only in the end credits, guess on purpose. Have a better memory for faces than for names though.

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe most of the fans have blocked out the last episodes of Season 2 just like I did, so it's not a surprise that most didn't recognize her. However, Outlaw Queen was just way too happy and rushed, so I figured something would have to happen by the end of the show.

 

One thing I was curious about is whether Emma has forgotten that she was in the book originally. They just tore those pages out and burned them so that Regina wouldn't see. I know she was meant to feel disconnected from the stories, but her story, the story of the Saviour's birth and destiny, was in there to begin with. It's why Henry went to find her. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought it was hilarious that Emma and Hook had to do the whole Enchantment Under the Sea scenario from Back to the Future, complete with the disappearing book pages.

 

It was really hard for me to feel at all bad for Regina in this situation. Just because she lost Daniel doesn't entitle her to having another true love, especially at the expense of someone else. What if the situation were reversed and Daniel had been the one that Emma brought back? Would she tell Robin, "Oh, don't worry about Daniel. It's been a while since I saw him and I'm totally over loving him, so he's just a friend. Regina + Robin 4eva!"? I realize that we're all self centered to an extent, but I can't believe she has the nerve to be mad that Emma saved someone from being MURDERED by her past self because it's such an inconvenience for her.

 

But I feel I should also mention that I didn't want Emma to bring her back because saving someone from being executed could have huge consequences on the future. I actually thought that when Rumpel saw her, he would just kill her on the spot to ensure that the timeline would not be affected. That would have been the smart thing to do. Not the nice thing to do, but the smart thing. Between watching Back to the Future and knowing Star Trek's prime directive, I was yelling at Emma to leave the mystery woman in her cell.

 

I know that they have a complicated family and it's unusual to have siblings who are born 28 years apart, but it's weird to have your brother named after your baby daddy. If it were me I think it would weird me out to call my baby brother by Neal's name. Ha and imagine how Henry must feel: "My uncle is named after my dad!"

 

I loved that Future Hook was so jealous of Past Hook making out with Emma that he punched himself and said that he deserved it. Ha! I guess one of the main things we were supposed to get from this episode is seeing how much characters like Hook and Regina have changed.

 

Kudos to whoever cast young Emma. She reminded me a lot of current Emma. And thank you to whoever decided that Jennifer Morrison should not play Emma from 18 years ago because there is no way to make her look that young. It drives me crazy when we see her play teenage Emma because no amount of costuming and makeup can make her look 17 again.

 

I'm not a Regina fan, but when Emma talked about how she felt when she hugged Snow but Snow didn't know who she was, I was hoping that Emma would realize that's how Regina, Mary Margaret, and David felt when Emma and Henry came back to Storybrooke and they were strangers to him.

 

I'm not a Captain Swan shipper per se, but I have a weakness for hot men being supportive of their crushes. I don't ship Captain Swan because I like them together or because I want Emma to have a love interest. The only reason I want to see them together is because Hook is hot and he has shown himself to genuinely care enough about Emma to make sacrifices in order to help her, so I want them together because it would make him happy.

Edited May 13, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[NJ RadioGuy]

It was really hard for me to feel at all bad for Regina in this situation. Just because she lost Daniel doesn't entitle her to having another true love,

Except this is a Sunday night ABC fairy-tale in family prime-time, where everybody deserves a shot at happiness, evil is vanquished and the good guys, in white hats, will ultimately prevail.

 

especially at the expense of someone else. ...

 

Now that's the big issue, and that's how her character will ultimately be defined as good or evil...how she'll handle this, whether there's even a dollop of forgiveness within that blackened lump in her chest and whether she'll try to undermine a legitimate and true love that she almost separated forever in a past life.

 

I realize that we're all self centered to an extent, but I can't believe she has the nerve to be mad that Emma saved someone from being MURDERED by her past self because it's such an inconvenience for her.

 

Rational thought rarely enters the picture when the first person you've been able to love (in a romantic sense) for almost 30 years is ripped away in an instant, and done so in sight of the whole town. anybody, in any world--including our own--would be crushed emotionally in that circumstance. We think in the here and now, and it might take a bit of decades-old reflection to realize that she was the cause of her own emotional devastation by condemning Marion back in FTL. Again, it's how Regina chooses to deal with this that will define her once and for all, I think. And for me, I vastly prefer the flawed-but-redeemed NewRegina, who still has her snark and her power, but only uses it for the greater good.

 

What I would love to see is how she makes amends (or tries to) to those she hurt in the old life. I don't know if that would make for compelling television or not, but it could be her path to real redemption and the way to her deserving whoever her ultimate soulmate is.

 

But I feel I should also mention that I didn't want Emma to bring her back because saving someone from being executed could have huge consequences on the future. I actually thought that when Rumpel saw her, he would just kill her on the spot to ensure that the timeline would not be affected. That would have been the smart thing to do. Not the nice thing to do, but the smart thing. Between watching Back to the Future and knowing Star Trek's prime directive, I was yelling at Emma to leave the mystery woman in her cell.

 

Like I said upthread, that would have been the other acceptable outcome. Edith Keeler (non Star Trek fans just Google the name).

[BoPeeps]

Helluva romp :)

 

No complaints here. Just pure enjoyment all around. Top episode for me.

 

They rounded out some arcs, they gave us sass, wit, sexy flirt, adult-ish humor and child-like adventure, great costumes, superb music, and for me a lot of my favorite leather dude eye candy (wink). Hook on Hook jealousy was oh SO fun. The characterizations progressed.  It was everything I loved as a kid and yearned for with more adult fantasy requirements! And Rumple snark returned in aces!!! I have missed him.

 

They also set up some intriguing scenarios with Marian's presence. Marian is an icon as far as Robin Hood legend is concerned and unless they turn her into a character dishrag, she has every right to be with her husband and son. Regina and Robin have done nothing underhanded or wrong in falling for each other. It's a toughie!

 

The ensuing drama b/w Emma and Regina could be wildly fun considering the Henry connection and they are going to be magical equals now. Emma has new found courage, self acceptance, love and confidence. Her determination to protect and defend her loved ones, now that she has embraced them all, will make her magic immensely powerful. Regina respects that power. She can't easily defeat it, not that I think she really wants it to go there. And because I adore Lana P./Regina I am looking forward to her new demons to face. She will be walking a very fine emotional line with guaranteed high angst.

 

I loved the intimacy of the Rumbelle wedding, Their story has been very private and intimate and it was quite fitting.  I LOVED Belle's wedding suit. The timing was a little hoakie. Gold and Belle had JUST been in the diner when the (eh) Prince was named, then Emma went running outside to lip lock Hook then Rumbelle were at the wedding fully changed, then flashed back to Emma and Hook still lip locking during their vows,,,which means...Emma and Hook and been lip locking for the entire time they needed to change and get to the wedding which...hmmmm...uhh...nevermind...timing was perfect! (heh heh, never to old to love the luscious lip lockage!)

 

I had more to say but am too busy thinking about the lip lockage. Incorrigible broad I am.

[Captain Asshat]

I finally was able to watch the finale. You guys have covered a lot I would have said, but I don't think anyone has covered this. What struck me was that everyone at Granny's looks out the window, sees the time portal, realizes, with horror, "That's Zelena's time portal! Something must have triggered it!" They run to watch surveillance vids. They call Emma to say, I dunno..."Stay away from that time portal!" They can't reach Emma, and what do they do? Go back to Granny's and continue the party. <slow clap> Way to go, heroes.

 

Emma comes back, and the reaction isn't, "Wow! You were trapped in a time portal, nearly undid everyting, and only through your own magic were you able to return, because we had no idea you were there, because we returned to the party?" No, their reaction is to look at the fairy tale book and say, "Look! You're in the book now. You're one of us <cuz you totally weren't before, despite being our daughter>! Let's have a laugh now." And Emma wanted to go back to Storybrooke, why?

 

Elsa? Really? I might have to start hate watching this now.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Captain Asshat

[Gel]

What I loved most about this episode was Emma finding out at the end, in such an almost understated way, that Hook gave up the Jolly Roger to find her. Throughout the episode, Jennifer Morrison does a marvelous job conveying the increasing sense of wonder at being in a fairy tale, finding that she is really has a place as fairy tale princess, and finding her way "home". Starting out as someone who has no secure tether to either world, who does not believe she means anything to anyone or that anyone would really miss her, you can see going into the conversation with Hook she is totally not expecting a serious answer when she asked him what thing of value it was that he traded in for the magic bean. And when he answered, with a laugh as if to brush it off with jest, "Why, the Jolly Roger, of course.", I think it completes the sense of wonder for the whole journey, that not only having witnessed how true love happened for her parents, but opens her eyes to the idea that true love is possible for her as well. And he came to find her in New York not because of any concept of true love, even though he feels that way, but because it was "the right thing to do". His wry acceptance throughout the episode of the lengths which he will go for her is just (well, damn, this is the only word that comes to mind) charming.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Gel

[marcee]

Hey! They reminded us in this episode that Regina *never saw Robin's face, only his tattoo* ...sooo, maybe someone else has the same tattoo, and is Regina's real soulmate!

I felt like they were totally telegraphing that.

[shapeshifter]

Hey! They reminded us in this episode that Regina *never saw Robin's face, only his tattoo* ...sooo, maybe someone else has the same tattoo, and is Regina's real soulmate!

I felt like they were totally telegraphing that.

Thank goodness someone besides me saw that. I was beginning to feel like a lone voice crying in the wilderness--or Storybrooke.

Kudos to whoever cast young Emma. She reminded me a lot of current Emma....

Yes, but no, because the younger girl getting in the car also looked like a young Emma, so I was confused. Plus, it reminded me of our discussions first season about how unlikely it was that a newborn, blond-haired, healthy baby girl would not be adopted.

...I'm not a Captain Swan shipper per se, but I have a weakness for hot men being supportive of their crushes. I don't ship Captain Swan because I like them together or because I want Emma to have a love interest. The only reason I want to see them together is because Hook is hot and he has shown himself to genuinely care enough about Emma to make sacrifices in order to help her, so I want them together because it would make him happy.

Thank you, ElectricBoogaloo, for perfectly explaining exactly how I feel about it too. Do you supposed we need therapy for our hot men weakness?

[Pattyjs]

Regina has a right to be angry with Emma in the moment re: bringing Marian back, but it has to end after that.  If they want us to believe any of the Regina Redempton arc then Regina is self-reflective enough that she would know she couldn't have a relationship with Robin if she killed his wife.  She may not have known it at the time - Marian would have been some random soul to here - but now she does and she should be grateful to Emma for saving Marian.  If Regina really loves Robin then she would not have wanted to be the one responsible for his wife's death.  All that said, this is all about setting the great Regina backslide of 2014/2015 which means at least she may be interesting again.  I found St. Regina completely boring and look forward to her being a bit more evil again.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Pattyjs

[Dani-Ellie]

Yes, but no, because the younger girl getting in the car also looked like a young Emma, so I was confused.

 

I actually thought that was a nice little fakeout, like you think you're getting to see Emma going off with a foster family (that she clearly didn't stay with for whatever reason) and then the scene tears your (well, my) heart out with, "Nope, just kidding, Emma's actually the poor girl over here, watching yet another little girl get the one thing she's always wanted but never had."

 

 

 

All that said, this is all about setting the great Regina backslide of 2014/2015 which means at least she may be interesting again.  I found St. Regina completely boring and look forward to her being a bit more evil again.

 

I just hope I don't have to start throwing things at my television again. Regina's happy ending shouldn't be easy (or coming at all, in my opinion) but the back-and-forth is maddening. Either she's evil or she's redeemed, writers. Pick one.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[BelovedMaeve]

 

After a re-watch, a couple things really stood out to me. I loved Emma looking for Snow in the tree after she realized she was seeing The First Meeting. It went from, "Hey I know this, so mom should be.. ah ha", with this childlike happiness that was so sweet.

All of Jennifer's reactions were spot on, but this I loved so much and could watch over and over. She's clearly delighted to see David, and when she sees her mom in the tree and later scaling the castle walls, she has this adorable little-kid "My mom is so cool" look on her face. I keep picturing her as a first grader during show-and-tell going: "...and my Mommy's the queen and she shoots arrows and climbs trees and can climb up walls too! Just like Spiderman! And did I tell you my Daddy fights dragons? 'Cause my parents are cool. Much, much cooler then all your parents."

Ginny seemed to be having a lot of fun too. When she's leaping out the window she has that same grin she had leaping over the cliff, and then in the net redux, she employs that…I don't know what to call it…this kind of pseudo I-don't-care-but-really-I-do voice when she tells Hook and David it's easy to get into the castle (because it used to be hers) and chirps away about what everyone gets (princess, ring, and a Charming-less life). It just makes me laugh. And I miss that so SO much. Please, PLEASE bring back this Snow. I love her to pieces and seeing her again was like an old friend.

Loved that Emma realized her home is with her parents. That made me incredibly happy. When she called them Mom and Dad it made me ecstatic. I wasn't happy with the call-out on 2x22. I'm not sure what it was but it just didn't work for me - actually made me cringe and since it was a moment I had been looking forward to ever since the curse was broken, I was disappointed. This episode is what I wanted to be. Rewatch, rematch, rematch.

I'm not really Team Hook, but if the Show lets Emma bond with her parents an equal amount, I ship Emma with happiness so whatever makes her happy is fine with me. Just don't let go of the family arc. There's still a ton of stuff to be explored there.

Edited May 13, 2014 by BelovedMaeve

[juice318]

The only thing I seriously hated was the baby name. Really? Neal's not even that great a name. I'd be more forgiving if they'd named it Bae or Baelfire. Ugg. Poor kid.

This finale actually felt like they weren't sure they were going to get renewed. If they'd gotten canceled, they could have ended with that montage where everyone was happy (Hook and Emma kissing, Regina walking with Robin, the wedding, etc) and then filled in the extra minutes earlier in the episode with some extra footage. That would have been a pretty okay place to end the series actually.

Totally agree about naming the baby Neal - was hoping for Baelfire. I would have been delighted if they'd ended the season with that montage (definitely had that "finale" mood), but noooo...

Edited May 13, 2014 by juice318

[Mari]

I actually thought that was a nice little fakeout, like you think you're getting to see Emma going off with a foster family (that she clearly didn't stay with for whatever reason) and then the scene tears your (well, my) heart out with, "Nope, just kidding, Emma's actually the poor girl over here, watching yet another little girl get the one thing she's always wanted but never had."

 

 

 

 

I just hope I don't have to start throwing things at my television again. Regina's happy ending shouldn't be easy (or coming at all, in my opinion) but the back-and-forth is maddening. Either she's evil or she's redeemed, writers. Pick one.

It wouldn't be quite so frustrating if they didn't take it to such extremes.  I get the backslide idea, but the back and forth shouldn't give you whiplash and neckstrain.

[Happy to be here]

I don't see how Emma saving an innocent woman from death, and reuniting that woman with her son and husband, is anything other than a good thing. Seriously. Sorry if it sucks that for *once* Regina has to face the consequences of *her own actions*, but I will NEVER consider saving an innocent's life and reuniting that innocent with her family to be a bad thing.

 

 

Yes Emma is saving an innocent woman from death and I would have actually been ok with her leaving the woman in the Enchanted Forest to her own devices but that is NOT what she  did.  She brought her to the FUTURE wherewe aren't actually dealing with the Evil Queen anymore.  And yes she has done some awful things but if we are talking about the kind of justice some of you are looking for we might as well execute her in the middle of town right now and end the show because that is all you will be satisfied with or seeing her suffer pain and sorrow and more pain.  The truth is that Emma had no reason to bring the woman into the future and shouldn't have done it.  She had been told several times not to by people who knew better that there was bound to be consiquences.    

 

Honestly I am not sure there was a right move here and that is the problem and kinda why I like the show.  I don't think Regina is a bad guy anymore and don;t want her to backslide into bad guy territory which is why I am not liking the story.  Honestly I am hoping the show doesn't take the easy road  and does something a little more clever with the storyline.  I just didn't like the way  it ended but I did like the parallels with the conversation with The evil Queen having the conversation outlaw Snow about consiquences and then Emma and the same thing.  

[Mari]

Leaving Marian in that cell to die--when Emma had a chance to save her--would have been a decision Emma considered morally wrong, and since Marian would have been removed from the time line the next morning, taking her along to the future was a logical decision.  In the future, Marian couldn't frolic around causing more timeline disruptions.  Was it the safest "big picture" decision?  No.  But sometimes who we are as people is defined by the decisions we make in the small picture.

 

And I guess I'm not clear on what that has to do with Regina not being the Evil Queen any longer.  Emma didn't know this was Marian.  Marian wouldn't tell her.  The only reason Emma would think this would have any emotional impact on Regina is because it would mean one less person's death on Regina's nearly nonexistent conscience.

 

As long as Emma's treating Regina respectfully and not maliciously causing trouble for Regina, she shouldn't have to walk around making her decisions based on whether or not it's possible this decision could cause sadness for Regina at some point in the future.

[Dani-Ellie]

Yes Emma is saving an innocent woman from death and I would have actually been ok with her leaving the woman in the Enchanted Forest to her own devices but that is NOT what she  did.  She brought her to the FUTURE wherewe aren't actually dealing with the Evil Queen anymore.  And yes she has done some awful things but if we are talking about the kind of justice some of you are looking for we might as well execute her in the middle of town right now and end the show because that is all you will be satisfied with or seeing her suffer pain and sorrow and more pain.  The truth is that Emma had no reason to bring the woman into the future and shouldn't have done it.  She had been told several times not to by people who knew better that there was bound to be consiquences. 

 

If we're splitting hairs, Emma was never told not to bring Marian to the future. She was told not to change the past. There's a slight difference.

 

In the thread at TWoP, I compared Marian to the sports almanac in Back to the Future II. Once the almanac was in play, everything changed, as Doc and Marty found when they went back to 1985 to find a Hill Valley they didn't even recognize. Emma set the almanac in play by freeing Marian, but by taking her forward, she and Hook minimized the damage/changes Marian could possibly make to the timeline. It was their way of stealing the sports almanac back from Biff before he had a chance to become rich and powerful enough to own all of Hill Valley.

 

In the original timeline, there was no more Marian from the moment she was executed because, well, she was dead. In the changed timeline, Marian escaped the Queen's dungeon and vanished without a trace. Either way, there is no Marian in the past. Had they left her in the past, she could have reunited with her family, which would mean Robin wouldn't have been helping Regina through the Zelena thing, which would mean maybe Zelena wouldn't have been defeated.

 

Yeah, Emma saving Marian when she was told a hundred and one times not to change anything was boneheaded but there was no way Emma Swan was letting that woman die. The only thing Emma and Hook could do after that was bring her forward. And the "consequence" to Emma's action was reuniting a family in the present. I'm not at all sorry that now Regina has to face some karmic retribution for splitting that family up in the first place.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[AudienceofOne]

Captain Swan 4Eva!! And I don't even care if that makes me sound 12.

 

My problem with them using Frozen is the fact it's so new. The other fairy tales have existed, in many cases, for hundreds of years and have been built on and reimagined. Although some of them are newer, they still have multiple interpretations due to various film versions of the original books. This gives the show scope to subvert and reinterpret them. How precisely do they do that with Frozen? So either they end up re-treading a very recent popular film or they piss everybody off. I just think it's a mistake. But hey, they may pull it off.

 

I thought this was an odd finale, actually, although I loved about 98% of it. Quite jarring for the plot to be so disassociated from the Oz storyline (at least until the 'No Place Like Home' realisation at the end) but once it was over I actually rewatched it - something I've never done for an OUAT episode ever.