S25.E12: Week 10: Season Finale Part 2

[littlecowgirl93]

7 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

And even if Mark gets the perfect contestant, the fact that he does not do the DWTS tours anymore means that the show will promote the heck out of the touring pros, at the expense of him and his partner. This season there was a blatant lack of media coverage of Lindsey and Mark, especially for being one of the top couples. Early on and throughout the season, other couples appeared on Access Hollywood Live, Ellen, Entertainment Tonight, KTLA, etc. Lindsey/Mark were in L.A. for the first 8 weeks of competition, but it wasn't until the week before the finale (while they were travelling on tour) that they finally got an Access H. interview. In the post-show press line, I feel like their interviews were often rushed along in favor of other couples. I don't know whether all of this has any impact on the competition, but it seems unfair not to give all the couples equal opportunity for exposure.

I noticed the lack of exposure as well. :(

[OnceSane]

Keep your comments to the show (ie: what happened in the episode).  Personal jabs at your fellow posters is unacceptable.  Ringer, past seasons and past pros talk is off-topic.  Knock it off.

[boyznkatz]

Were Terrell and Cheryl there last night? I don't recall seeing Sasha either, while I do clearly remember Gleb standing in front of Barbara. He didn't seem to be aware of that till the end, when he seemed to apologize to her. Weird.

Edited November 22, 2017 by boyznkatz

[crowceilidh]

Terrell was there front and centre in the male stripper dance and bouncing all over stage later.

The fusion dances were less entertaining than in previous years.  Both #2 and #3 looked frazzled beyond endurance and bored out of their gourds (me too).  On the other hand, Lindsay made it really exciting, despite not being my winning candidate, I would have thrown all of my last minute votes to them on the strength of that, had I been watching in real time.

I am happy Lindsay won because the consistent improvement in her ability with her celebs is so marked.  I'm not sure how much improvement I saw in her this season despite CAI's quacking, but she is a standout pro to me.  

I did not particularly like Lindsay on SYTYCD or for a while thereafter, although I always slightly preferred her to Wit (they were a package deal at the time).  I like them both now, but Lindsay clearly has more talent at this point, although Witney can hit it out of the park on occasion, she isn't consistent enough.

Edited November 22, 2017 by crowceilidh

[ljenkins782]

13 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

The difference maker for me is that every single time Jordan and Lindsay danced...I was glued to the entire dance from beginning to end.  They are the only ones to have that effect on me.  Thrilled to pieces for both of them.   Lovely people.

A tremendous and worthy Final Three.  So engaging, so talented.

Only criticism I'll reiterate on the finale is the SHAMEFUL use of clock management which robbed the winners and us viewers of a little more time and emphasis on the joyful winners.  All it would take is a few more minutes max which could easily be found in that over-stuffed finale.  Those last post-announcement moments were super rushed and Tom/Erin got more airtime than the winners.

Love Keo and his exuberance.  Yay for Lindsay (at last!) and Jordan -- well-deserved!

Same. Jordan's dances always got my attention in a way that no one else's did.

The final order seemed just right to me, I loved Frankie but he wasn't better than the other 2 and at least he got all the way to the end. 

The time management issue is a chronic one for this show and I don't know how they can't get this right after 25 freaking seasons. They constantly fart around for the first hour and a half, wasting time on stupid shit, and then get frantic at the end when they have 2 minutes left and 10 minutes worth of content to get through. 

Regarding Keo's exuberance...was he a friend of Jordan's or something? He seemed way more excited than I would have expected.

Quote

I enjoyed hearing Nick sing. Maybe they should have cut Jordan's singing and then he would have had time to speak after winning..  Seriously, since he was in the final 3, he didn't really need to sing. Or Lindsey's violin stuff,  not necessary since the night was already focused on them.

I enjoyed the dancing montage during Nick's song and Frankie nearly weeping through the whole thing, lol. But it sounded pretty much exactly like a 98 degrees song from 20 years ago (eek, can't believe it's been that long) and I really don't think his singing career is ever going to experience a resurgence.

I could have done without Jordan's song. His voice is fine, but unremarkable. He actually reminds me quite a bit of Justin Guarini circa the first season of American Idol. Same smoothness and PR savvy and very similar singing voices. 

Quote

I'd love to see Artem win next.

I love Artem, he's my favorite male pro. I'd like to see him get a real contender one of these times. He and Nikki were all over each other last night.

[00redsvt]

2 hours ago, spanana said:

Last thoughts. I never need to see Robert Roldan do ballroom and the show really needs to get their crap together and hire back Brittany Cherry and stop stringing her along with the constant hiring and firing.  Since Jenna is treated as this weird pseudo pro for better or worse, let Brittany be in the troupe since she actually seems committed to be there.  Jenna can just be Mandy's full time hype women or do her featured Mandy or Val numbers. 

The official DWTS Instagram account is constantly propping Jenna up as well, and it's annoying  yesterday their story was "25 favorite things about season 25". Number 23 was Jenna and she said her favorite part was when the show hired her to come back in week 3 because IM SO GOOD and I was so excited. She seriously said IM SO GOOD! What the what!?! That C Bros mentality is wearing off on her hard and fast, y'all. 

 

1 hour ago, littlecowgirl93 said:

Awww! I love their friendship! I know they were always commenting on each other’s Instagram posts. I always thought she left too early.

 

I am a bitter Betty over Nikki leaving before some of the less talented males. Boo! 

[jackjill89]

I get very tired of the ringer talk. Bottom line, you can have experience, but you also have to have personality and connect with the audience. Some people have the "it" factor that makes up for some of their lack of talent. Some have a great growth arc. It's a combo of factors that will lead to a win. 

There's also the factor of the pro they're dancing with. I doubt I'll like anyone they pair with Gleb. I honestly can't stand him. 

Jordan had skills and personality. Lindsay is a fantastic pro. I'm glad they won.

Lindsay S and Mark were a fantastic pair as well. They're both quirky and artistic. I liked Witney and Frankie too. Honestly, best top three in a long time. I even liked Drew and Emma. It was a pretty likable group overall. 

[Pj3422]

Is it just my twisted little brain, or did anyone else think — as the male troupe members were tossing packages around — “Oh, they’re going to do ‘D*ck in a Box’”

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Pj3422 said:

Is it just my twisted little brain, or did anyone else think — as the male troupe members were tossing packages around — “Oh, they’re going to do ‘D*ck in a Box’”

If your brain is twisted, then so is mine, 'cause I thought that exact same thing :p. 

[vdw84]

14 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Peta can just go away any time now. It disappoints me that we're apparently never going to see Maks dance with another female pro again. I always loved him dancing with Cheryl, Anna, Edyta and, of course, Karina. He used to have chemistry with anyone he danced with not named Hope Solo. I think he and Peta have the chemistry of a couple of trouts.

Maks and Peta dont have any chemistry and his little bro and camera hog girlfriend JJ have none either. Their dance the other night was just a carbon copy of the dance she did with Kiki on sytycd.

[Emily-D]

Lindsay has done a great job since getting promoted back up to pro but let’s not pretend she hasn’t been incredibly lucky. She’s either had dancers with experience e.g Jordan and Wanya, or non dancers with absolutely golden fanbases for the show e.g Alek (war vet) and David (Cubs). I’d like to see how she copes with a Derek Fisher next, or even a proper early out like a Chris Kattan. It is a mystery how Sharna hasn’t won yet, but she can’t say she hasn’t had the partners. She’s had an Olympic ice dancer, a disabled war vet, a Steeler and a Backstreet Boy among others which is far better than many other pros (Emma for example). Despite all those partners with big fanbases and/or Dance experience, her best chance was with James, she was very unlucky that season. 

[calipiano81]

5 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

So now it's timing?  He has two mirrorballs and oodles of opportunities that go with that.  I doubt very much if Lindsey or Witney or Sharna would be able to take a season or two off and just show up again to dance with who they hand picked because he wanted to work with her as a musician outside of the ballroom.  The women are treated like they are interchangeable.    

I don't think a pro is entitled to a win just because of how long he/she is on, but I just can't feel strongly or use it as a reason for a particular pro to win when there are others who have gone much longer without. Out of the female pros, the only one I feel for is Cheryl. Maybe Sharna as well.

And I do think longevity is something to be respected and valued. IMO, Mark was able to take time off and resume where he left off BECAUSE he put in 18 straight seasons and made many creative contributions over the years. I don't think Artem, Keo, Gleb, Sasha, or Alan could afford time off any more than the newer female pros.

While I'm sure the female pros appreciate the support, it's now beginning to sound like dismissing what the male pros do. Do the male pros not work their butts off as well each season? Especially since their female contestants are required to do twice as much dancing and twice as well as the male celebs to get the same enthusiasm from the judges and audiences. And as I brought up before, the male pros may be way more popular, but they also get way more criticism and hate.

[boyznkatz]

41 minutes ago, Emily-D said:

Lindsay has done a great job since getting promoted back up to pro but let’s not pretend she hasn’t been incredibly lucky. She’s either had dancers with experience e.g Jordan and Wanya, or non dancers with absolutely golden fanbases for the show e.g Alek (war vet) and David (Cubs). I’d like to see how she copes with a Derek Fisher next, or even a proper early out like a Chris Kattan. It is a mystery how Sharna hasn’t won yet, but she can’t say she hasn’t had the partners. She’s had an Olympic ice dancer, a disabled war vet, a Steeler and a Backstreet Boy among others which is far better than many other pros (Emma for example). Despite all those partners with big fanbases and/or Dance experience, her best chance was with James, she was very unlucky that season. 

I have to agree with this. Jordan would have made anyone look good. Cheryl was the one who really made lemonade out of lemons this season. She's so terribly underrated.

[Bliss]

Just had a conversation with another fan who thought the winner got a bonus of $250,000 (perhaps this was true years ago?) and so I googled and found a site which says the winner doesn't win anything extra... just the MBT. Strange. From this article, assuming it is true, each finalist earns $345,000. Not a bad payday for approximately 90 days work (being a math geek, I had to do the calculation, and it's almost $4,000/day.)

It starts with a sign-up fee of $125,000 and increases each week they stay in the competition.

No numbers in the first article for the pros. My gut instincts tell me the "better" (more experienced and/or popular) pros probably earn more.

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-does-dancing-stars-2017-cast-winner-get-paid-2590985

https://paywizard.org/main/salary/vip-check/dancing-with-the-stars

Edited November 22, 2017 by Bliss
found another site with more info

[spanana]

50 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

While I'm sure the female pros appreciate the support, it's now beginning to sound like dismissing what the male pros do. Do the male pros not work their butts off as well each season? Especially since their female contestants are required to do twice as much dancing and twice as well as the male celebs to get the same enthusiasm from the judges and audiences. And as I brought up before, the male pros may be way more popular, but they also get way more criticism and hate.

But who is dismissing what the male pros do?  A lot of this is born out of the fact that TPTB have historically put much more weight and emphasis into supporting and promoting their big male pro stars and less so the women.  The women, even the Juliannes and Cheryl's at the height of their popularity, were always expected to deal with the Tom DeLay and Wayne Newtons, whereas the more chosen male pros didn't really have to deal with that.

Also it's true for any public figure that the more popular you are, the more hate you get.  That is just the nature of fame and the perks that come with being more known (better pay, better contracts, promised better celebs, etc.) probably outweighs most of the negative.  All of these pros get hate.  Every single one.  I'd also argue that some pros egg it on themselves with controversial statements and etc. that they know will get people riled up.  I would LOVE to see some of the pros contracts to see how they differ and to see the differential in payment across the board.  I probably would throw a fit if I saw how much Maks is making versus Lindsay for instance.

There is a point to be made about longevity and Mark is a good example of that.  But IMO Mark is a good example of that because of his creativity and choreography he will likely always have a spot.  Before in my own post about longevity, I was mostly referring to Maks.  Maks is an example of a pro to me who always has a spot when he wants one, but no, I don't think he puts forth the effort anymore that a lot of the other pros do.  His interest is elsewhere- in his family, etc.  He knows he probably doesn't have to put forth the effort others do because he has a job whenever he wants one.  Exhibit A- his random taking off a night this season for personal reasons that mostly seemed to be born out of him not getting along with his partner.  Unless he has a personal problem (sickness, injury, something with his family) or unless Vanessa was assaulting him, he should have been on that dance floor.  Or unless Vanessa refused to dance with him.  Do I think a female pro would have been able to pull that sort of stunt and still have a job?  No, of course not.  I think for the most part the women held to a higher sense of professionalism.  I also won't even get started on Maks and his atrocious choreography.

So yes, to TPTB the women pros are seen as a lot more interchangeable and it's about time that they weren't.  The male pros work their butts off, for the most part, but they also get far greater recognition for doing so, and at least the main ones likely better pay.  Let the women have their shine.

Edited November 22, 2017 by spanana

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Number 23 was Jenna and she said her favorite part was when the show hired her to come back in week 3 because IM SO GOOD and I was so excited. She seriously said IM SO GOOD! 

In case anyone is wondering, I find this kind of self promotion very offputting when any person does it.  To give her the benefit of the doubt, this could be a small part of a bigger quotation.  For example, if she said, here favourite part was when the show hired her to come back in week 3 and actually said to her that it was because she was so good.  That is self promotional and understandable as a cause for excitement.  Maybe my problems with the self promotional thing are cultural.  I find Americans like flat-out egotistical bluster a little bit more than Canadians do.  And if Jordan or Corbin or Jenna or Vanessa were Canadian that  behaviour would cause a major cutting off of the tall poppy which would completely taint their celebrity.

Edited November 22, 2017 by crowceilidh

[boyznkatz]

Maks totally looked like he didn't give two shits this season. He should never be allowed back, but of course his mug will be back next season.

[spanana]

1 hour ago, Emily-D said:

Lindsay has done a great job since getting promoted back up to pro but let’s not pretend she hasn’t been incredibly lucky. She’s either had dancers with experience e.g Jordan and Wanya, or non dancers with absolutely golden fanbases for the show e.g Alek (war vet) and David (Cubs). I’d like to see how she copes with a Derek Fisher next, or even a proper early out like a Chris Kattan. It is a mystery how Sharna hasn’t won yet, but she can’t say she hasn’t had the partners. She’s had an Olympic ice dancer, a disabled war vet, a Steeler and a Backstreet Boy among others which is far better than many other pros (Emma for example). Despite all those partners with big fanbases and/or Dance experience, her best chance was with James, she was very unlucky that season. 

I think Lindsay would have been just fine with Derek Fisher.  Also I'd add that Lindsay got more out of Carlos Penavega in one week (during the switch up) than Witney did all season.  I think the thing about Lindsay is personality wise you could probably match her up with almost anyone and she would be okay.  I'm not saying she would reach the finals every time, but she would find a way to work with whoever she is given.  Whereas I don't think that is true for someone like Witney for instance.   I think some pros are just easier to pair up than others.

I also don't disagree that Lindsay got people with fanbases and so of course that helped her final placements, but I'm not going to pretend that either Alek or David were good dancers.  Also Alek, not being a celebrity, had about the personality of a wet napkin.  Yes, he's a hero and all that but he wasn't exactly made for tv from a personality standpoint.  Also people forgot about Calvin Johnson, who was a good but not great dancer, who Lindsay also managed to get to a finals.

Where Lindsay has lucked out so far is she's generally gotten people with good attitudes, even where they weren't great dancers.  However I don't think that negates her body of work.  Nobody is going to get a Chris Kattan to a finals and that is generally understood.  But at the same time, I don't think anybody held it against Witney for not getting Chris to the finals...everyone knew he was an easy first out.  I think when people look at a pros body of work its in the context of what celebs they have been given.  See Emma for example.  When she got crappy partner after crappy partner, everyone knew it wasn't her fault that she kept having early outs. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by spanana

[lavenderblue]

5 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

In case anyone is wondering, I find this kind of self promotion very offputting when any person does it.  To give her the benefit of the doubt, this could be a small part of a bigger quotation.  For example, if she said, here favourite part was when the show hired her to come back in week 3 and actually said to her that it was because she was so good.  That is self promotional and understandable as a cause for excitement.  Maybe my problems with the self promotional thing are cultural.  I find Americans likeflat-out egotistical bluster a little bit more than Canadians do.  And if Jordan or Corbin or Jenna or Vanessa were Canadian that  behaviour would cause a major cutting off of the tall poppy which would completely taint their celebrity.

As an American, I would find either scenario (Jenna calling herself good or exclaiming that the show told her she was so good) off-putting, but I didn't catch the Story to know the full context.

My hope for this switch to an all-athletes mini-season is with an eye towards recruitment of Winter Olympians, most especially because I frankly love ringers!

[calipiano81]

8 hours ago, McManda said:

Just spitballing, but common denominator is Mark. I think he's pretty polarizing as a pro - you either love him or hate him - which might be enough to keep him from winning. He's not like Derek, who knew exactly how to play the DWTS game, but he's creative enough and patient enough to get pretty far which is why he's got lots of "so-close"'s.

I can recognise Mark as a good, creative choreographer. But I don't really care for a lot of his dances, though, because they're too much: too themed, too costumed, too over the top, too much in your face. And it's every dance he does, not just once in awhile. While that might make for great exhibition dances, it rubs me the wrong way on DWTS. There's always been someone else that fits my expectations better.

Since I was specifically talking about Mark and his partnerships, of course he will be the common denominator to what I was describing.

IMO, though, a number of his "so-close"s were due to non-dance related reasons. My frustration comes from seeing all of the different scenarios he's been in, but in eight years, the elements still can't align.

Also, IMO, Mark isn't as polarizing as he used to be (pre-season 17), and when he was, it was more about him as an individual than his choreography.

[jhlipton]

I'm happy for Lindsay but I found Jordan to be incredibly boring, to the point of skipping his last 4 dances.  The show was supposed to be about GROWTH and I'd rather see Frankie or even Drew win than they guy who was so goid to start.  If I just wanted "good dancing"  I would watch Strictly Ballroom. 

But this show has NEVER really been abiut the best dancers or the best teachers, but who can get the most votes.  I can't get worked up about ringers and who "deserves" it or whatever since that's the case.

[perfectstorm]

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'm happy for Lindsay but I found Jordan to be incredibly boring, to the point of skipping his last 4 dances.  The show was supposed to be about GROWTH and I'd rather see Frankie or even Drew win than they guy who was so goid to start.  If I just wanted "good dancing"  I would watch Strictly Ballroom. 

But this show has NEVER really been abiut the best dancers or the best teachers, but who can get the most votes.  I can't get worked up about ringers and who "deserves" it or whatever since that's the case.

This could be why the finale ratings were down from the last 2 seasons.  The show dropped 17% from the 2016 fall edition. 

It's boring when the winner pretty much was determined in the first few weeks. 

This is supposed to be an amateur competition.  There is no growth when someone consistently gets perfect scores week after week.  The judges hardly ever gave Jordan any constructive feedback. 

For a ringer, he was lucky to have been paired with Lindsay - whom many felt was overdue for a win.

Great to see that Frankie got a spot on the tour.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ifoundit

[tessaforever]

6 hours ago, spanana said:

Though not as noticeable, I'd argue there is also a growing chasm between the fam pros (so the Cbros and their whole group) and Emma/Sasha's group.  Though Emma/Sasha's group is kind of an offshoot of Derek's group I guess.  They are close with the Houghs and Mark, Lindsay, Artem, Keo amongst others.  Val and Sasha particularly don't like each other and are always managing to get in passive aggressive digs at the other but I don't really know why.  Val & Emma used to be close but don't seem to be anymore so maybe it has something to do with that.  There are a couple pros like Lindsay and Sharna that seem to have a foot in both worlds, though Lindsay doesn't really hang out with the fam pros much on her off time, so much as they at least seem to respect her and her work.  I don't think the same holds true for Witney for instance.

Also taking to General Gabbery. 

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

I have to agree with this. Jordan would have made anyone look good. Cheryl was the one who really made lemonade out of lemons this season. She's so terribly underrated.

I actually started to like Cheryl a little bit this season (she just rubs me the wrong way), and then she didn't show up for the finale! I mean, come on. That wasn't fair to TO at all. And you can't tell me she had something better to do on Tuesday night. 

[Toonces464]

19 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

Also taking to General Gabbery. 

I actually started to like Cheryl a little bit this season (she just rubs me the wrong way), and then she didn't show up for the finale! I mean, come on. That wasn't fair to TO at all. And you can't tell me she had something better to do on Tuesday night. 

I thought I saw Cheryl in one of the female numbers?

[doLLish]

4 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I thought I saw Cheryl in one of the female numbers?

She was definitely in the opening number. It could have been pre-recorded but I don’t think it was.

[smiley13]

6 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Now if we could get Sharna a Mirrorball-worthy contestant...

Now if we could just get rid of Sharna.  With Lindsay's win, Sharna is the only one of this season's female pros to not be a winner.  Hopefully TPTB will wise up and send her on her way.  She just does not have what it takes to win.  

Edited November 22, 2017 by smiley13

[sab85]

I saw Cheryl dancing with Brandon in one of the numbers which surprised me because he's one of the newest kids on the block.

[tessaforever]

2 minutes ago, sab85 said:

I saw Cheryl dancing with Brandon in one of the numbers which surprised me because he's one of the newest kids on the block.

Okay, I missed that. Sorry. I wonder why she and TO didn't dance together. 

[sab85]

I don't know but I was shocked Maks and Vanessa actually danced together. They could have easily had her do a girl's number or something with Nikki. 

[Omeletsmom]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

If your brain is twisted, then so is mine, 'cause I thought that exact same thing :p. 

Oh good; I thought it was just me!

[madpsych78]

I must say, I enjoyed seeing Jonathan again. I still find it pretty remarkable that he was able to keep up with Emma and Drew (on the Jive, no less) when he had not put in the training that even Drew had put in. 

[tessaforever]

23 minutes ago, sab85 said:

I don't know but I was shocked Maks and Vanessa actually danced together. They could have easily had her do a girl's number or something with Nikki. 

Luckily they picked one where they spent a ton of time apart and never had to look at each other while dancing together!

[Toonces464]

35 minutes ago, sab85 said:

I don't know but I was shocked Maks and Vanessa actually danced together. They could have easily had her do a girl's number or something with Nikki. 

Probably trying to squelch that bad blood rumors one last time since I doubt the two will ever see or speak to each other again.

[Andiethewestie]

7 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

. the indignity of Canadians not being able to vote for James has a lot to do with the fact that I could vote for SEASONS before James but then they took my right to vote away in his season (or just before?)  That seemed egregiously pointed and insulting to me

Absolutely.  Phone lines and on line voting was open for Pam Anderson.  Pam Anderson,  Drew Property Bro, people who don't have a hope in hell of winning... but James- dammit!!

[Chit Chat]

Quote

Plus it felt like it was all redone; the male pro  dance was similar to a dance they did last year with gift boxes, the opening in the living room set was similar to last year, ... and something else, but it's slipped my mind at the moment.

My thoughts when the Pro's came out dancing with the gift boxes?  Justin Timberlake & Andy Samberg's music video on SNL, 'Dick in a Box.'  I couldn't contain my laughter at the thought.  

Congrats to the winners.  That was well-deserved, but I would've been happy with either of the 2 finalists winning.  I thought that Mark & Lindsey did an awesome freestyle performance.  I think that's my favorite out of all of the one's I've ever seen.  YMMV.   I loved watching Frankie and seeing his journey and how the show helped him. It takes a lot of courage to go on this show and risk falling on your face out there in front of millions of TV viewers!  Kudos to all of them. 

[Dobian]

The winner wasn't a surprise and it was very predictable.  The problem with DWTS has always been that it mixes in true amateurs like Frankie and Terrell Owens and Drew the house guy, with celebrities who have performance experience like Lindsey Stirling, and with people who are pretty much dancing professionals in their own right like Jordan. So yes he's technically the best, but it's not a fair comparison.  I still enjoyed the finale despite all the filler, and was glad to see my personal favorite, Lindsey, nail her dances.

[Emily-D]

6 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I love Artem, he's my favorite male pro. I'd like to see him get a real contender one of these times. He and Nikki were all over each other last night.

It was Nikki’s birthday and it looks like they all got wasted together. There’s a video going round of them salsa dancing to Despacito in a club that’s got crazy John Cena fans going apoplectic with rage haha. Apparently you can’t drink and dance in close proximity with your dance partner and friend without being accused of sleeping together by nutty fans. I don’t think they realise that they won’t even see each other again for months.

[crowceilidh]

I didn't think the outcome was at all predictable.  There were many factors mitigating against all three finalists and many for.  I think the show is manipulative enough to down Frankie 2 points (c'mon, when do they do that in the finale?) because they were worried enough that he might be able to take it in that final vote, but I don't think they can call the winner.  It's just not legal.

[legaleagle53]

22 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Probably, cause they will keep giving him talented female celebs and make the finale and lose to a male celebrity yet again.

Yes, I'm sure he's staring at the what, four? mirrorballs he's already won and sobbing his heart out.

[Andiethewestie]

9 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

On the other hand, Lindsay made it really exciting, despite not being my winning candidate, I would have thrown all of my last minute votes to them on the strength of that, 

This is what I really loved about Jordan and Lindsay, right to the end their fusion dance was not a throw away... More than anything it is their mutual love of dance, taking no shortcuts, and just oozing joy when they danced was my biggest take away from this season.  Some have argued on line that this dance was the only one that was allowed lifts, so it was flashy,  therefore it did better with the last minute voting. Well it was flashy because of what I said before, the Paso has the same rules no lifts, so it would only be the Salsa part, but the only trick that is a borderline lift was an assisted aerial at the end..  I say borderline, because Jordan might be able to do that unassisted.  

Edited November 23, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

5 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

Quoted for truth, and because this post could be pinned at the top of every single DWTS thread every season.  Sadly, nothing would change.

Here's what we know, at the beginning of the season after the very first show the studio audience was randomly surveyed as to who their favorite couple were. I think there's a video of it somewhere. (It might be one of those On the Red Carpet shows) Without question the majority liked Jordan and Lindsay.  So for me this show is a popularity contest first, and first impressions count.  Jordan and Lindsay had dance advantages yes, but likability has to factor into it or they won't win. I think those people in the audience and at home liked what they saw and had no reason to vote elsewhere. So all the talk of he's boring because he's a trained dancer, a Disney nerd,  no growth arc, etc. etc. doesn't really affect what people like. If they like you they stay with you, good dancer or not. In Jordan and Lindsays case they were likable and they danced well. Jordan is no fool, he knows that Lindsay contributes greatly to that likability factor, but it just cannot be Lindsay alone, she has came close too many times for that to be true. If on line polls are any indication and (we know they are not reliable), still all the random polls I saw had Jordan and Lindsay winning by at least 60% of the audience. 

[SnarkyTart]

This finale made me happier than almost any other I can remember from the previous 24 seasons.  All 3 finalists were immensely likable people, as far as such a thing can be known from watching someone on TV.  All 3 partnerships were enjoyably well-matched and evolved throughout the season without needless drama.  All 3 finalists appeared to love the show, love dancing, want to win, and put in the hours of practice to earn it.  Regardless of outcome, all 3 of these contestants gained new, positive exposure and a ton of new fans, for which I'm very glad.  They all deserved that.

Jordan is probably my favorite male dancer in 24 seasons, and his fusion dance last night was a perfect finish.  He was, imo, the best technical dancer this show has seen and I don't care why.  I loved every minute of watching him dance.  Lindsey had one of my favorite routines ever with her freestyle, and I enjoyed her Halloween routine almost as much as that. I couldn't and wouldn't be too mad with whatever the finishing order was.  As it was, they finished exactly where I would have chosen if I had a magic wand to make it so.  For me, the icing on the cake would be for Mark Ballas to finally get his Emmy win for such outstanding work.

[Andiethewestie]

2 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

,I think the show is manipulative enough to down Frankie 2 points (c'mon, when do they do that in the finale?) because they were worried enough that he might be able to take it in that final vote, but I don't think they can call the winner.  It's just not legal.

IMHO Frankie was never going to win and for me that dance just did not measure up, I thought the Run boy Run Freestyle was 4th of 4 .  I thought they were generous with the scores, because when it was decided that Drew would be 4th , Witney made it more difficult by doing a stinky freestyle.  And for me, that is why the show was desperate for Witney to do something upbeat, they needed to maintain 3rd place for the tour.

Frankie had moments but he was too inconsistent, overall he would be third, possibly move into  2nd if Mark tanked the Freestyle.  Mark did not make the same mistake he did with Paige, so I think the Freestyle allowed Mark and Lindsay to easily maintain 2nd place. Before that, it was very possible that Lindsey and Mark would have dropped to 3rd since their star had been dropping once the Lindsey tour and fatigue kicked in. They were not doing any PR to keep the brand in front of the voters, they had no time.  But they also never were in jeopardy with their fans. 

I also think by the show announcing Frankie as the last one safe a number of times they were trying to ensure he stayed over Drew.   Drews fan base was no joke. 

Jordan and Lindsay were never in the bottom, which tells me the viewer wanted consistent dancing. 

[Uke]

3 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

3 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I didn't think the outcome was at all predictable.  There were many factors mitigating against all three finalists and many for.  I think the show is manipulative enough to down Frankie 2 points (c'mon, when do they do that in the finale?) because they were worried enough that he might be able to take it in that final vote, but I don't think they can call the winner.  It's just not legal.

replying in General Gabbery

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Yes, I'm sure he's staring at the what, four? mirrorballs he's already won and sobbing his heart out.

Mark has won twice, same as Cheryl, Julianne, Kym, Peta, and Val. He may not be sobbing, but his fans sure would have liked to see him to get at least one more mirrorball to reflect his evolution as a pro and his decade-long impact on the show.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

It's just not legal.

This is a reality show, not a game show, so the strict Standards and Practices that came out of te scandals of the 50's don't apply.  Producer manipulation is totally legal for reality shows.  About the only thing they don't do is rig the actual votes although there have been some shady incidents on a couple of shows -- American Idol, IIRC , waqs one.

[howmanywords]

43 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

Mark has won twice, same as Cheryl, Julianne, Kym, Peta, and Val. He may not be sobbing, but his fans sure would have liked to see him to get at least one more mirrorball to reflect his evolution as a pro and his decade-long impact on the show.

Not just that, but I have no doubt Mark actually wants to win again. Even though he's won twice, 8 years is a long time and I'm sure it's frustrating to come close and keep losing. The year Alfonso won I remember Mark was pretty visibly upset and IIRC he even skipped the press line after the show.

2 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Jordan and Lindsay were never in the bottom, which tells me the viewer wanted consistent dancing. 

Exactly. Sometimes when couples never hit the bottom it's meaningless to some viewers but it does often mean a lot in the grand scheme of things. For the life of me I'll never understand why some people think when a couple is in jeopardy 2 or 3 times that its a sign so and so is actually running away with the votes and they're doing it for drama. I wouldn't be shocked to learn Jordan and Lindsey had the highest votes every week.

[anonymiss]

13 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

MARK with Ronda Rousey

The most famous of the Female WWE fighters,  Ronda is an Olympic Gold Medalist in Judo,  she has hung up the gloves and is involved in television production and acting.  Perfect for DWTS!    

Ronda is not with the WWE (although she guested there once) and they have fake wrestlers, not fighters. She is a UFC MMA (Mixed Martial Artist) and won Bronze, not gold at the Olympics. I don't see her ever wanting to do this show but stranger things have happened. 

[carljohnson]

Congrats Jordan Fisher and Lindsay Arnold :)

[Bridget]

15 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

 

I love Artem, he's my favorite male pro. I'd like to see him get a real contender one of these times. He and Nikki were all over each other last night.

Someone on the finale show mentioned how great the partnerships were this season, and we all know how imperative they are to a couple's success. They were SO spot on about that, especially with Nikki and Artem.

Longtime Nikki Bella fan here and I loved seeing her friendship blossom with Artem, even though she clearly struggled with some of the dancing parts. 

I watched them on the finale and they seemed like the type of BFFs who were able to go a while without seeing each other, but pick up like they'd only been apart for a minute or two. Does that make sense? I LOVE their (platonic) chemistry and that was one of the reasons I wish Nikki had lasted another week or two. Although watching her dance with Artem last night reminded me that she would not have lasted much longer, bless her heart. I give her major props for trying something new and staying fearless!

I would not be shocked if she invites Artem to her wedding - those lucky bridesmaids!!!