S04.E08: Live. Live. Live.

[Bort]

Quote

Annalise is confronted with disturbing news involving one of Isaac's patients; the investigation into Wes's murder comes to a head; details of the whereabouts of Laurel's baby are revealed.

[rollacoaster]

SIMON! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn, Asher, you touched it with your bare hand!

Michaela, handling that sh*t like a BOSS!

OMG! Damn, Damn, DAMN!

Too, late, Annalise, these guys are too stupid to live!

DAMN!

Edited November 17, 2017 by rollacoaster

[talktalk]

So I guess the baby lived?

[Neurochick]

I don’t know.

ETA, he’ll yeah, Annalise to the rescue.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Neurochick

[Lady Calypso]

So, that was something. It's been a messy season to begin with. It wasn't well thought out and had a lot of problems.

This finale wasn't much different from that. I'm glad Connor stood his ground. It's progress for him to not just cower and be fearful of the others when they tell him not to do something. He's also had some great reaction shots to whenever Laurel mentions Wes as a way to manipulate them. The shot of him after Laurel tells the group that Wes never bailed on them was priceless. Well, Wes was the cause of all the problems, so he couldn't very well bail. He kept roping people back in, as is Laurel.

I wish I could feel for Simon's confession to Oliver about his sexuality, but it's too little too late here. They should have tried to give Simon more sympathetic scenes earlier, not an episode before the finale.  

Not surprising it was Simon, either. He was basically suspect #1 for me. Though, of course, it took them forever to do anything besides standing around, so the window to save him got smaller and smaller. But yeah, Laurel's gun made a reappearance! And....Simon shot himself by accident? And nobody bothered to check a pulse but Oliver tried to save his life? It is kind of funny how Laurel, Asher, and Michaela are so nonchalant about someone dying in front of them because they've been through it before, but this is technically Oliver's first encounter, so he's still very new at the situation. Which is a really weird thing to say here, since death and murder shouldn't be common. 

I was right about Laurel delivering her baby in Annalise's elevator, at least. I just didn't expect her to have also been at the party. I also didn't expect Frank to have inadvertently caused it to happen. I'm a bit surprised the baby did survive, especially since the baby was two months premature and delivered in the elevator. I don't know what they're going to do with the baby on the show now, though. 

The mystery portion this season so far was poorly mishandled. They usually do a better job, but they focused on way too many mysteries, with so little payoff. 

So....I knew that Connor being at the house when Wes was killed was going to be bad, especially when I saw Nicholas Gonzalez' name in the opening credits. As soon as they reminded us about that night, my heart lept. But seriously, they don't give any payoff to that either, so who knows what Dominic is going to do with Connor, if he does anything. 

Yeah. I predicted that the payoff would be shit, especially since Isaac still hasn't met anyone but Annalise or Bonnie, so how the hell does he get chummy with Frank, go to see Laurel, AND talk with Michaela long enough for her to lean on him for comfort? 

Is this really the finale, here? Because it feels like there should be one more episode. 

[Jeopardy15]

I can’t even. I can’t think. Too much to process. 

[tanyak]

 I'm sure you can poke holes in it, but to me that was a great hour of television. Wow.  I need to put my thoughts together and come back. 

[Neurochick]

I figured there were two bloody scenes.  I wouldn’t have thought Simon accidentally shot himself, that was a shock.

I liked this one better than last years who’s under the sheet.  So that’s why Laurel’s dad killed Wes?  Makes no sense to me, easier to just pay people off.

But great episode.  I don’t think the episode is where the season began.  Where is Laurel and where is the baby?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Neurochick

[wanderingstar]

So many unanswered questions.

Unlike previous finales, they didn't show all the scenes we'd seen in the flashforwards throughout the season. How does Isaac get involved in all of this? Where does Laurel's baby end up? Why was Asher arrested (because his prints were on the gun?)

I guess that's the end of Simon. I actually liked the character and thought he was a good foil for the K4. 

Viola Davis is AH. MAZING. 

As I watched Michaela boss the post-shooting mess, I saw just how much she's learned from her time in Annalise's orbit.

I swore Nate and Bonnie were going to sleep together. It's still a possibility.

Laurel's plan was dumb, but the execution was even dumber. 

I just don't care about Isaac and his ex-wife.

[stonehaven]

Annalise is so gonna need a drink after tonight....the show was messy and the mystery wasn't all that amazing...but the acting and the emotional backstories so far this season have sucked me in. As for Laurel in the elevator...Call me a bitch but she and her baby paid the price for her stupidity in trying to go with that plan...

Yet, Annalise saves Laurel..and bit by bit, they will all get sucked back in to her orbit...Gonna be a long two months.

[JohnSmithSensei]

It's kinda funny how these characters ended up. Michaela was practically catatonic and useless during the Sam cover-up, but is now taking charge cleaning up the Simon mess. Connor, arguably the biggest Annalise hater, is now in her camp; it was hilarious how he chastised Frank for being a perpetual screwup in the same way that Annalise will later. 

[Annber03]

...so...okay. That ending felt...abrupt. 

Annalise trying so desperately to save that baby was freaking heartbreaking, though, because you just KNOW the painful memories regarding her own baby that would've been running through her head. I was kinda hoping she'd find some way to give the gate a good hard shove and bust it open. Hearing the baby cry at the end was a surprise, but I'm still hesitant to say the baby's out of the woods just yet. 

(Also, I know the baby was covered in blood, but did it look like it was Wes' to anyone else?)

As glad as I am that none of the group actually wound up killing anyone this episode, Simon accidentally shooting himself felt a bit anti-climatic. Maybe it's the way it played out that makes it feel that way. At least they had the presence of mind to wipe down the gun before placing it back by him-I was worried for a moment that they'd get so caught up in the chaos that they'd forget that little detail. 

Blue is a really good color for Michaela. 

I didn't pay attention to the opening credits, so I totally missed seeing Nicholas Gonazlez' name show up, and was therefore surprised to see Dominic pop up in the shadows while Connor was talking on the phone. Now I'm nervous about what that means, for Connor and the group in general. Kinda threw me to see Gonzalez pop back up on here now that I'm seeing him every week on "The Good Doctor" :p.

On the note of Connor, he was clearly the most sensible one this entire episode, for sure. And his comments to Frank about how he's looking for a mommy figure, first in Annalise, and now in Laurel. I actually let out a little, "Ooooooh...." at that..

Yeah. Overall I did like this episode, but I would've liked at least a small nod of some sort at the end to everyone being where we saw them in the flash forwards. Stupid two month wait :p. Until January, then!

Edited November 17, 2017 by Annber03

[truthaboutluv]

Entertaining hour but definitely no surprises. We all knew SImon was the one who was shot and I called back in Episode 2 that the blood on Annalise might have been Laurel's when she went into labor. So yeh! me. Curious to know why they arrested Asher. Although he can be an idiot at times so who knows what stupidity he told the detective that made him appear suspicious. Also curious why Isaac said they found drugs in Laurel's system since it certainly didn't seem like she was on anything.

I'm wondering if that's a setup by Dominic who we saw listening in on Connor's conversation. Although there's also that call Laurel got at her apartment. I'm wondering who that was from because Connor hadn't yet told Annalise what was happening. I'm wondering if it was Dominic calling to casually say he was in town which made Laurel realize how dire shit was because it's clear she knows her father only sends Dominic when he wants something done. 

I'm also wondering why Isaac was even there at the hospital. I guess Annalise might have called him since having lost her own child, that whole experience is probably incredibly traumatizing and triggering for her. It would also explain why he sounds so upset asking her where the hell she is but I think it's more of a concerned anger because he thinks she might possibly be relapsing. 

Question, wasn't it revealed last season that Simon was gay? Because I feel positive it was and yet everyone's reaction to his crush on Oliver was less about his feelings for Oliver and just the fact that he was into guys. Could have sworn everyone already knew that. And okay, I'm sorry and maybe this makes me evil but damn if I didn't laugh at the completely dumb way Simon ended up accidentally shooting himself. Like seriously? Of course that is why we're always told to not play with guns. 

Bonnie and Nate were interesting. Both sad and pathetic with their Annalise obsession and I'm still not sure why Nate is even still on this show but I enjoyed their scene. At this point, I continue to just enjoy Annalise, Connor and Michaela. I tolerate Asher but Laurel and Frank can go kick rocks. I felt a twinge of sympathy for Laurel when she was possibly losing her baby but not enough to still not be pissed at all the bullshit she's done this whole season and her snooty ass attitude. And fuck Frank and his sociopathic ass trying to strangle Connor for saying nothing but the truth. 

That's why I have never been here for the hate Connor has gotten for being rude to these people. Frank for example, freaking strangled Lila while coldly staring the girl dead in her eyes and never paid for it and instead the show is now trying to sell some great love story between him and Laurel. Bullshit. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[partofme]

Laurel, Michaela, Asher and Oliver really are horrible people.  If Simon dies it's all on them.

Edited November 17, 2017 by partofme

[Bort]

So who was the No Caller ID that called Laurel and apparently prompted her to go to the party?

[HunterHunted]

6 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Question, wasn't it revealed last season that Simon was gay? Because I feel positive it was and yet everyone's reaction to his crush on Oliver was less about his feelings for Oliver and just the fact that he was into guys. Could have sworn everyone already knew that.

I think it was revealed, but the Keating Kids are such narcissists that they mostly missed it.

9 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I didn't pay attention to the opening credits, so I totally missed seeing Dominic pop up in the shadows while Connor was talking on the phone. Now I'm nervous about what that means, for Connor and the group in general. Kinda threw me to see him pop back up on here now that I'm seeing him every week on "The Good Doctor" :p.

I'm hoping Dominic overhearing Connor means the end of the Castillo war of collateral damage. Will these two stop killing everyone around them and just scream in each other's faces about how much they fucking hate, disgust, and disappoint each other.

[KaveDweller]

When Michaela wiped the fingerprints off the gun, she wiped Simon's fingerprints off too. They should have put his hand on it or something. Of course they will suspect foul play if they don't get any fingerprints.  What does it say about me that that's what I noticed?

Also, how were they planning on blaming Simon for stealing the card when Micahela was supposed to be holding it the whole time. Was she going to say she put the bag down after promising to watch it? It was a very dumb plan.

17 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

(Also, I know the baby was covered in blood, but did it look like it was Wes' to anyone else?)

Yes, it looked like Wes's to me.

[Bort]

3 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

When Michaela wiped the fingerprints off the gun, she wiped Simon's fingerprints off too.

Not necessarily. Asher picked it up by the barrel and it looked like that’s what Michaela wiped off. They really didn’t need to bother. Since Oliver had been trying CPR, they could’ve just said that the gun had been in their way and they moved it. 

[AyeshaTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

When Michaela wiped the fingerprints off the gun, she wiped Simon's fingerprints off too. They should have put his hand on it or something. Of course they will suspect foul play if they don't get any fingerprints.  What does it say about me that that's what I noticed?

Also, how were they planning on blaming Simon for stealing the card when Micahela was supposed to be holding it the whole time. Was she going to say she put the bag down after promising to watch it? It was a very dumb plan.

 

That plan had so many holes in it it's no wonder there was blood all over the place.  The plan was a mess from the moment Laurel thought she needed to "do it for Wes". And it got worse every time someone new got roped in.  I am ready for the back stretch because there are so many questions still floating around waiting for answers.  

[possibilities]

There are a lot of therapists who work with addicts. Pretending Isaac is the only possibility to help Annalise is beyond absurd.

Frank strangling Connor to me shows he's not getting a redemption arc.

All y'all have already said everything else I was thinking.

[tennisgurl]

46 minutes ago, JohnSmithSensei said:

Connor, arguably the biggest Annalise hater, is now in her camp; it was hilarious how he chastised Frank for being a perpetual screwup in the same way that Annalise will later. 

That keeps making me smile this season. Connor has always been Annalises biggest critic of the K5, and now he is basically Team Annalise, all the way. I would be careful though. People who join Team Annalise tend to get a little bit...obsessive. I was glad to see Connor keeping his head on straight, and that he turned out to be basically the voice of reason for the K4. But then, Annalise has always seen herself in Connor, so it makes sense he`s becoming Annalise Jr. 

That was a super intense episode, and that baby sequence was probably even more traumatizing to Annalise than it was to me! And I was almost watching through my fingers! I cant say I saw Simon accidentally shooting himself, but I am glad none of the gang actually killed anyone. I mean, on purpose. 

I guess that was karma for Laurels stupid plan and dragging all her friends into it. I actually did feel bad for her. Nothing like being accidentally punched in the stomach and giving birth and possibly losing the baby on an old elevator to get some sympathy back.  

I almost laugh at how often these guys end up just wandering into these accidental/self defense/spur of the moment killings. They're like those people in infomercials who cant open a door without destroying their whole kitchen until they get some new product, except instead of breaking their sink, they kill people or are adjacent to killing people. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Dee]

That was....underwhelming.

[pennben]

I love this show, it's my crazy, crazy guilty pleasure!!!  I decided after episode 2 this season to tape the rest, catch up right before this mid-season finale and then watch this live.  It is the very best way to watch it!!  I had five hours of crazy last night and then the culmination tonight.  No time to pick it apart, just time to get totally sucked in by the batshittery of all of it. And it was glorious!!!

Any way......the Scooby Crew is very, very bad at this stuff.  Very bad!  Ha!  And seriously, I've seen at least 10 or more shows where they accidentally wipe off all the prints on a gun destroying any alibi (or in this case, the truth)......apparently even law students need to watch a couple of seasons of Law & Order to be viable during a crime!  DO NOT TOUCH THE GUN!!!

Viola destroyed me in those final scenes.  She's just breathtakingly brilliant.  

I hope this doesn't destroy Annalise's class action on behalf of poor defendants.  I've absolutely loved that through line in these episodes and I don't want to lose it.....I want her to be able to do something good in a much needed area.  And screw the Scooby Crew for potentially messing that up.

One quick question.....do we know how the therapist knows Michaela? I think it was last episode where he went to her in the hall when he thought it was Annalise.  Did I blast past something in my binge?

Anyway, I think my plan for the second half of the season is to watch the first episode live and then tape and binge again until the finale.  The downside is I don't get to chat with you good folks every week, but it just makes the show infinitely better for me. 

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I actually did feel bad for her. Nothing like being accidentally punched in the stomach and giving birth and possibly losing the baby on an old elevator to get some sympathy back.  

Yeah, that was truly scary to watch. The vast amount of blood was...yikes. 

Quote

I almost laugh at how often these guys end up just wandering into these accidental/self defense/spur of the moment killings. They're like those people in infomercials who cant open a door without destroying their whole kitchen until they get some new product, except instead of breaking their sink, they kill people or are adjacent to killing people. 

LMAO, this is the most perfect description :D. When Laurel said at one point at the start of this episode, something like, "Nothing's going to go wrong', I was like, "HAVE YOU NOT BEEN PAYING ANY ATTENTION THESE LAST THREE AND A HALF SEASONS, LAUREL?!" :p. Talk about famous last words. 

[HunterHunted]

8 minutes ago, possibilities said:

There are a lot of therapists who work with addicts. Pretending Isaac is the only possibility to help Annalise is beyond absurd.

It's Philadelphia. There must be more than a hundred who work with addicts. Maybe Isaac is next to a Starbucks. Oops, that still leaves 75 therapists. Who are in walking distance to Trader Joe's. That leaves 8. Who also have a messy history of their own that mirrors Annalise. We're down to 1. Isaac is only guy she can see.

8 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Frank strangling Connor to me shows he's not getting a redemption arc.

Only people who thought Laurel's dumb plan was dumb and dangerous deserve a redemption arc. Frank thought it was stupid, but fell in line with the quickness. Asher at least was pissed for a couple of days.

[bantering]

I am such a horrible person because all throughout this episode all I could think was "Ugh, Laurel."  

 

She could have warned her friends she was bringing a gun. IDIOT!

Edited November 17, 2017 by bantering

[Bama]

While the idea to wipe Asher's fingerprints off the gun was a good one, the execution was obviously lacking as now the gun theoretically has NO fingerprints.  As mentioned above, the smartest move would have been for them all to touch it in some way and say they panicked and picked it up and moved it around in trying to save Simon's life.

However, none of that even matters at this point because the crime scene is still active and evidence is still being gathered - they haven't even moved the body yet!  NO way do the police have results from a fingerprint analysis of the gun at this point.  Which begs the question - what the hell did Asher say to get himself arrested at the scene 20 minutes after the shooting??

Asher can be a ding dong but he isn't stupid and the one overarching similarity all the K5-1 have is self-preservation.  Asher had no reason to confess for something he didn't do and he wouldn't do it to protect Michaela at this juncture.  It's not like the police would have confided in him "Psst, we think that hot lawyer intern in the kick-ass blue dress did it!  We're taking her in!"

I think his arrest is unrelated to Simon's death.  Maybe the police ran his name and something came back from his past.

No way in hell he's being arrested for Simon's murder at this point before all the evidence is gathered and the autopsy is done and all the people at the party are interviewed.

And, I too, want to know how the Isaac from the flash-forwards in the first few episodes came to be.  He's in cahoots whispering with Frank and comforting Michaela like he's been up to his neck in their drama.  He hasn't even met them yet.  Maybe Analise called him to go help the K5-1 and to try and keep a lid on the crazy and she texted her merry band of idiots - "Be there soon - washing the blood off - I'm sending a dude named Isaac to watch over you.  Do whatever he says!"

January can't get here soon enough!

[morgankobi]

So Bonnie is shit-faced at Nate's and somehow ends up "on duty" at the crime scene that same night? (Is that the same night?)

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

SIMON! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn, Asher, you touched it with your bare hand!

Michaela, handling that sh*t like a BOSS!

OMG! Damn, Damn, DAMN!

Too, late, Annalise, these guys are too stupid to live!

DAMN!

Except she planted the gun without putting Simon's finger prints back on.  His prints won't be on the card in his pocket either.

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

So many unanswered questions.

Unlike previous finales, they didn't show all the scenes we'd seen in the flashforwards throughout the season. How does Isaac get involved in all of this? Where does Laurel's baby end up? Why was Asher arrested (because his prints were on the gun?)

I guess that's the end of Simon. I actually liked the character and thought he was a good foil for the K4. 

Viola Davis is AH. MAZING. 

As I watched Michaela boss the post-shooting mess, I saw just how much she's learned from her time in Annalise's orbit.

I swore Nate and Bonnie were going to sleep together. It's still a possibility.

Laurel's plan was dumb, but the execution was even dumber. 

I just don't care about Isaac and his ex-wife.

It was the first time I've ever found Nate hot.  But Bonnie has chemistry with everyone.

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

...so...okay. That ending felt...abrupt. 

Annalise trying so desperately to save that baby was freaking heartbreaking, though, because you just KNOW the painful memories regarding her own baby that would've been running through her head. I was kinda hoping she'd find some way to give the gate a good hard shove and bust it open. Hearing the baby cry at the end was a surprise, but I'm still hesitant to say the baby's out of the woods just yet. 

(Also, I know the baby was covered in blood, but did it look like it was Wes' to anyone else?)

As glad as I am that none of the group actually wound up killing anyone this episode, Simon accidentally shooting himself felt a bit anti-climatic. Maybe it's the way it played out that makes it feel that way. At least they had the presence of mind to wipe down the gun before placing it back by him-I was worried for a moment that they'd get so caught up in the chaos that they'd forget that little detail. 

Blue is a really good color for Michaela. 

I didn't pay attention to the opening credits, so I totally missed seeing Nicholas Gonazlez' name show up, and was therefore surprised to see Dominic pop up in the shadows while Connor was talking on the phone. Now I'm nervous about what that means, for Connor and the group in general. Kinda threw me to see Gonzalez pop back up on here now that I'm seeing him every week on "The Good Doctor" :p.

On the note of Connor, he was clearly the most sensible one this entire episode, for sure. And his comments to Frank about how he's looking for a mommy figure, first in Annalise, and now in Laurel. I actually let out a little, "Ooooooh...." at that..

Yeah. Overall I did like this episode, but I would've liked at least a small nod of some sort at the end to everyone being where we saw them in the flash forwards. Stupid two month wait :p. Until January, then!

Yes, which would be the most likely to trigger Annalise.  

[superdeluxe]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

So many unanswered questions.

Unlike previous finales, they didn't show all the scenes we'd seen in the flashforwards throughout the season. How does Isaac get involved in all of this? Where does Laurel's baby end up? Why was Asher arrested (because his prints were on the gun?)

I guess that's the end of Simon. I actually liked the character and thought he was a good foil for the K4. 

Viola Davis is AH. MAZING. 

As I watched Michaela boss the post-shooting mess, I saw just how much she's learned from her time in Annalise's orbit.

I swore Nate and Bonnie were going to sleep together. It's still a possibility.

Laurel's plan was dumb, but the execution was even dumber. 

I just don't care about Isaac and his ex-wife.

I liked Simon, too.  These are horrible people and he was the least horrible.  So, who's going to be the foil for them now?

[NUguy514]

Well, Laurel, are you happy now?  I hope it was worth it, you fucking asshole.

Also, there is a 0% chance that baby would have survived.

[ChuckWagon]

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

  His prints won't be on the card in his pocket either.

Yeah this.

And... maybe I missed it, but why was it part of the plan to plant the card on him?

What explanation could Michaela possibly give to Tegan on how Simon got his (now printless) fingers on it?  Ha! just realized as typing this out Michaela was literally left holding the bag.

[Veronica]

Premature babies look like bread dough. The situation in and of itself would have triggered Annalise. It triggered me. 

 

Laurel was stupid to go to that party.  I can’t believe they wiped off the fingerprints and didn’t attempt to get Simon’s back on the gun.  Lawd with as many deaths/murders that these folks have covered up you would think they’d be better at it. 

 

I hated Wes so I would be happy to never hear his name again 

[blackwing]

I didn't understand that part of the plan either.  At some point, somebody is going to notice that Tegan's card accessed the server room, and that some data was downloaded (at least that's what I think happened, otherwise they could have just grabbed an entire hard drive and left).   It seemed like only that night that they decided to pin the blame on Simon.  How they were planning on explaining it before that decision?

And even after they decided to blame Simon... how would it have happened?  "I gave my purse to you Michaela."  "I had to go to the bathroom so I asked this guy that I totally hate to hold it for me, instead of my boyfriend or another woman at the office that I trust."   

How is it even possible that Simon might have even survived?   The nurse or somebody said the bullet went "through and through".  So it wasn't just a graze.  His face looked untouched.    And there was a lot of blood.  So he shot himself in the side of his head and he could have survived?  He still had a pulse.

Why couldn't Annalise get the elevator gate open?  Because it was locked from the inside?  Seems like a faulty design.  

Didnt we see Isaac at the hospital, receiving a call from Bonnie (using her fake name) and then he yelled "where are you?  She's here".  Is the "she" supposed to be Laurel?  If so, kind of anticlimactic.  I think it was supposed to make us think the "she" was the one shot?

All in all, not as suspenseful as the promo monkeys made me think.  It would have been more suspenseful if they had Nicholas start strangling Connor, or if they didn't have the baby cry.  I don't really care if Simon lives because I don't think there's any way it could be possible.

[blackwing]

Ok, so there is some explanation for why we didn't see some of the scenes from the flash forward... there was supposed to be another episode before the winter break.  

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/16/how-to-get-away-with-murder-simon-dead-laurel-baby/

Nowalk answers some questions.  I found this article very informative. 

Sounds to me like Simon is either dead or comatose and on life support.  I'd guess he's on life support and they feel guilty when he actually does die.  Although honestly, there was no reason for him to go snooping in a woman's purse, and why would he point a gun at them anyways, let alone have his finger on the trigger?  It was an accident but he is contributorily negligent.  

[backformore]

It seems to be a rule on TV, that if a pregnant woman gets on an elevator, the elevator WILL get stuck.  I hate that this show relied on that trope.

[Neurochick]

I don't think too hard about the plot when it comes to this show.  What draws me in are the emotions; this show is so perfect (IMO) with the editing, the music, everything.  If I try to think too much, it makes no sense.  Laurel would have gotten a signal because that's an old school elevator, I've been in many of them and my cell service works every time, now inside those new ones, not so much.  

Annalise delivering that baby through the bars of the elevator was chilling, Viola sold that scene, that's why she's the Queen IMO.

I'm a bad person because when Simon shot himself I nearly laughed because it was so unexpected, "hey, at least neither of them killed anyone this time."  I never liked Simon anyway, so I won't miss him, yes I'm a terrible person.

Glad it wasn't Teagen who was dead, I like her, and Michaela has learned so much from Annalise, that's for sure.  She never should have listened to Laurel's dumb plan though.

The baby looked like Wes, so I guess that's all for the Laurel/Frank love story.

Did Laurel's dad really kill Wes because his company was about to go public?  That seems stupid to me, as I said before, it's cheaper to pay someone off, a lot less bloody too.  Now I see where Laurel gets her stupidity from.

[NUguy514]

Oh, yeah, Laurel's cell not working in the elevator?  Bullshit.

Also, when Oliver tried to equate his very awful, actually damaging lies to Connor with Connor's not telling him what Jack McCoy said, I was like:

[SunnyBeBe]

Do they all have burner phones? If not, it might be kinda of interesting to see that groups shenanigans.  The police will check that, right?

Oh, I bet this firm seriously reconsiders if it's worth it to hire anymore interns. lol 

Edited November 17, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[HunterHunted]

11 hours ago, bantering said:

I am such a horrible person because all throughout this episode all I could think was "Ugh, Laurel."  

 

She could have warned her friends she was bringing a gun. IDIOT!

I don't know why she thought a gun would make anything go smoothly. These nitwits have managed to kill a fuckton of people with nary a gun in sight.

Sam--gravity and a trophy

Lila--strangled 

Rebecca--strangled 

Sinclair--car

I'm sure I'm missing some deaths. What do these assholes need a damn gun for?

[Milaxx]

13 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

So many unanswered questions.

,,,,,,,

As I watched Michaela boss the post-shooting mess, I saw just how much she's learned from her time in Annalise's orbit.

.......

I think they've been priming Micheala to be sort of AK lite  for some time now. Remember that scene back in season 2 or 3 when she's with the guys and AK calls her and she goes outside and meets her in the car? Micheala was demonstrating AK mannerisms back then.

13 hours ago, JohnSmithSensei said:

It's kinda funny how these characters ended up. Michaela was practically catatonic and useless during the Sam cover-up, but is now taking charge cleaning up the Simon mess. Connor, arguably the biggest Annalise hater, is now in her camp; it was hilarious how he chastised Frank for being a perpetual screwup in the same way that Annalise will later. 

It just shows how completely meshed and codependent on each others  they are.  

13 hours ago, Annber03 said:

...so...okay. That ending felt...abrupt. 

Annalise trying so desperately to save that baby was freaking heartbreaking, though, because you just KNOW the painful memories regarding her own baby that would've been running through her head. I was kinda hoping she'd find some way to give the gate a good hard shove and bust it open. Hearing the baby cry at the end was a surprise, but I'm still hesitant to say the baby's out of the woods just yet. 

(Also, I know the baby was covered in blood, but did it look like it was Wes' to anyone else?)

As glad as I am that none of the group actually wound up killing anyone this episode, Simon accidentally shooting himself felt a bit anti-climatic. Maybe it's the way it played out that makes it feel that way. At least they had the presence of mind to wipe down the gun before placing it back by him-I was worried for a moment that they'd get so caught up in the chaos that they'd forget that little detail. 

Blue is a really good color for Michaela. 

I didn't pay attention to the opening credits, so I totally missed seeing Nicholas Gonazlez' name show up, and was therefore surprised to see Dominic pop up in the shadows while Connor was talking on the phone. Now I'm nervous about what that means, for Connor and the group in general. Kinda threw me to see Gonzalez pop back up on here now that I'm seeing him every week on "The Good Doctor" :p.

On the note of Connor, he was clearly the most sensible one this entire episode, for sure. And his comments to Frank about how he's looking for a mommy figure, first in Annalise, and now in Laurel. I actually let out a little, "Ooooooh...." at that..

Yeah. Overall I did like this episode, but I would've liked at least a small nod of some sort at the end to everyone being where we saw them in the flash forwards. Stupid two month wait :p. Until January, then!

I knew once they showed the baby that he would live. I've said before this was about redeeming and humanizing AK this season. No way could she have handled that baby dying.

The one thing that concerns me with Laurel's plan is that no one thought about the fact that Jorge would figure out that Connor was the one at the house that night.  Dominic did see him running from the house. If Jorge was willing to kill Wes, wouldn't he also want to tie up lose ends like Connor? Especially if it would be easy for him to figure out after talking  Dominic & Denver that it was Connor who found Wes's body and tried CPR, not Laurel? 

I knew Simon was in trouble the minute he got a backstory. 

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

....

I'm also wondering why Isaac was even there at the hospital. I guess Annalise might have called him since having lost her own child, that whole experience is probably incredibly traumatizing and triggering for her. It would also explain why he sounds so upset asking her where the hell she is but I think it's more of a concerned anger because he thinks she might possibly be relapsing. 

Question, wasn't it revealed last season that Simon was gay? Because I feel positive it was and yet everyone's reaction to his crush on Oliver was less about his feelings for Oliver and just the fact that he was into guys. Could have sworn everyone already knew that. And okay, I'm sorry and maybe this makes me evil but damn if I didn't laugh at the completely dumb way Simon ended up accidentally shooting himself. Like seriously? Of course that is why we're always told to not play with guns. 

.....

As mentioned downthread. There's another episode that was supposed to air. Now we won;t get those explanations until January.

It was implied that Simon was at least bi , but I've always gotten the impressed that he had a crush on Oliver.

12 hours ago, pennben said:

.....  

I hope this doesn't destroy Annalise's class action on behalf of poor defendants.  I've absolutely loved that through line in these episodes and I don't want to lose it.....I want her to be able to do something good in a much needed area.  And screw the Scooby Crew for potentially messing that up.

....

If anything it would strengthen her case. If there is any press at all about this, it will paint AK as a hero for saving a pregnant woman & her child in a broken elevator. AK will look like a hero.

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It's Philadelphia. There must be more than a hundred who work with addicts. Maybe Isaac is next to a Starbucks. Oops, that still leaves 75 therapists. Who are in walking distance to Trader Joe's. That leaves 8. Who also have a messy history of their own that mirrors Annalise. We're down to 1. Isaac is only guy she can see.

 

I laughed so hard at this because it so very true.

12 hours ago, morgankobi said:

So Bonnie is shit-faced at Nate's and somehow ends up "on duty" at the crime scene that same night? (Is that the same night?)

I wonder if Frank calls Bonnie and she goes over there and use her badge to gain access. Do ADA's have on call hours? If so, I don't think she could drink while on call. ( I realize this show and reality are often two separate things)

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I didn't understand that part of the plan either.  At some point, somebody is going to notice that Tegan's card accessed the server room, and that some data was downloaded (at least that's what I think happened, otherwise they could have just grabbed an entire hard drive and left).   It seemed like only that night that they decided to pin the blame on Simon.  How they were planning on explaining it before that decision?

And even after they decided to blame Simon... how would it have happened?  "I gave my purse to you Michaela."  "I had to go to the bathroom so I asked this guy that I totally hate to hold it for me, instead of my boyfriend or another woman at the office that I trust."   

How is it even possible that Simon might have even survived?   The nurse or somebody said the bullet went "through and through".  So it wasn't just a graze.  His face looked untouched.    And there was a lot of blood.  So he shot himself in the side of his head and he could have survived?  He still had a pulse.

Why couldn't Annalise get the elevator gate open?  Because it was locked from the inside?  Seems like a faulty design.  

....

The whole frame Simon then wipe the card makes no sense. 

There is a possibility that Simon survives a through and through. It means the bullet is not still in his brain.  Gabrielle Gifford is an famous example of someone getting shot in the head and surviving. TBH I'd prefer to see Simon live just to add another challenge to the Keating gang. They deserve the ongoing guilt of what they did to Simon.

Some of those old elevators with the gates like that the elevator has a mechanism that clicks into place that then allows the gate to be opened. Earlier when AK was coming home she had to really yank at the gate which means it was likely getting stuck and not completely clicking over.

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Ok, so there is some explanation for why we didn't see some of the scenes from the flash forward... there was supposed to be another episode before the winter break.  

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/16/how-to-get-away-with-murder-simon-dead-laurel-baby/

Nowalk answers some questions.  I found this article very informative. 

Sounds to me like Simon is either dead or comatose and on life support.  I'd guess he's on life support and they feel guilty when he actually does die.  Although honestly, there was no reason for him to go snooping in a woman's purse, and why would he point a gun at them anyways, let alone have his finger on the trigger?  It was an accident but he is contributorily negligent.  

I thought there were scenes missing. Aja too over the HTGAWM IG page yesterday and she walking in a scene at the hospital that didn't air yet.

27 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know why she thought a gun would make anything go smoothly. These nitwits have managed to kill a fuckton of people with nary a gun in sight.

Sam--gravity and a trophy

Lila--strangled 

Rebecca--strangled 

Sinclair--car

I'm sure I'm missing some deaths. What do these assholes need a damn gun for?

And any time a gun introduced it just gets worse. Rebecca's foster brother got framed by Frank. Hapstall sister got framed by the K5 and AK got shot.  Yeah, they don't need a gun. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Milaxx

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I’m a bad person because when Simon shot himself I nearly laughed because it was so unexpected, "hey, at least neither of them killed anyone this time." 

I almost laughed too because... huh?! It was so out there. I rewound it to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. And then I kind of laughed because Oliver was the only one who was rightfully freaking the fuck out, but the rest of them have all been here before so they were calmer.

That last 15 minutes was INTENSE. Viola is so awesome. I thought the baby would live, but it was really intense to watch.

Does Bonnie love Annalise as a mother figure, a friend, or is she in love with her?

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Does Bonnie love Annalise as a mother figure, a friend, or is she in love with her?

I think it's a little bit of all.

[Keepitmoving]

PN, I'm not interested in the least bit in seeing Mickey become Anna, not one damn bit. 

Next, this is some dumb shit, NOT one of them, NOT a damn one of them is responsible for Simons's death. So why the fuck is Asher in jail? 

So this shit show cut scenes. Let me guess, so there'd be more time for the Laurel show, yep.

I rolled my eyes when the show ended with that baby crying, please. The entire time I wanted to go back to Asher and Michaela, who PN just has sit there while they hall her man off to jail. But she's whiping shitty face Laurel with a tissue. This fucking fixation that PN has with Laurel is infuriating.  What I wouldn't give for Frank to take Laurel and that baby off  into the sunset or the abyss, I don't care. I'm just done with her and anything having to do with her. 

Well maybe they can leave to find the baby? Now that we know they cut scenes maybe the baby is safe . Because seeing Dominique makes me think that he found Anna, the baby and Laurel, shanked Anna and took off with the baby. I know I saw him listening to Connor's convo.hiding at the bottom of the stairs.

[apn85]

Despite how I feel about Laurel sometimes - Karla Souza was amazing. As was Viola. Those last few minutes were intense. 

I keep seeing everyone say the baby looked like Wes, but to me, he just looked like a hypoxic bloody mess in bad lighting? I guess I'm just not seeing it. I have always thought he would be Wes's baby, but then I thought wouldn't it be some crap if Annalise saved Frank's baby when he inadvertently caused her son's death! Also, Nowalk kept saying in a couple print interviews I read, "Annalise thinks the baby is Wes's..." "Annalise thinks it's little Wes..." Weird choice of words, but it could mean absolutely nothing.  Since everyone keeps saying he looked like Wes, I guess that debunks my thoughts on that.

[Bort]

Given that the baby was likely a prop pilfered from the Grey’s Anatomy set, covered with red-dyed corn syrup, I don’t think what we saw is enough to determine paternity. 

[Neurochick]

28 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

The entire time I wanted to go back to Asher and Michaela, who PN just has sit there while they hall her man off to jail. But she's whiping shitty face Laurel with a tissue.

I thought Michaela was in shock.  What do you think she should have done?  

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know why she thought a gun would make anything go smoothly. These nitwits have managed to kill a fuckton of people with nary a gun in sight.

Sam--gravity and a trophy

Lila--strangled 

Rebecca--strangled 

Sinclair--car

I'm sure I'm missing some deaths. What do these assholes need a damn gun for?

Yeah, and a pregnant woman carrying a gun!  OMG.  I've been trained in firearms and I wouldn't do that while pregnant.  

[blackwing]

We also got the explanation of the previously seen but not last night scene of Annalise sitting fully clothed in her shower.  She must have been physically and emotionally drained from saving Laurel's baby.  Of course though, I believe the shower scene was meant to make us think she was the murderess.