S25.E10: Week 9: Semi-Finals

[MsJamieDornan]

41 minutes ago, dcubed said:

So if Drew or Frankie wins, I don’t particularly care because they are both trying hard and putting in the time and if the voting audience likes them best, so be it.  It does not take away my enjoyment from watching others that I think dance better.  This show has never been about the best dancer.  Frankly, for me, I enjoy something about everyone that is left whether it’s their dancing, ability to emote, attitude or work ethic.  

Great post. Well said.  

[TroopinFairy]

I feel like Val let Victoria down. I feel like he didn’t didn’t really know what to do with her so, he just relied on her past for votes. She wasn’t great but, she could’ve been better. Also she didn’t really dance in her contemporary. It felt more like a “trio”dance. It’s not the first time that Mark as used one of his songs and it probably won’t be the last. But, when you think about it most of the time when the “star” is a singer they end up dancing to one of their own songs. It’s tacky to me but, it almost always happens. It’s obvious that Jordan is going to win. I might not watch the finale because of it. It’s boring when you know from the start how the season is going to go. I think that Frankie might be out next which kills me because I like him and vote for him. It should be Drew but, I thought that Drew would’ve been gone weeks ago and he’s still here. 

 

Also I’m mad and I HATE that Great July ruined “I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)”.

Edited November 14, 2017 by TroopinFairy

[LotusFlower]

59 minutes ago, dcubed said:

He didn’t say she didn’t have experience, he said she had no training.   He said she danced in her videos while playing violin and the proceeded to show an earlier video where her movement is pretty bad.  If she is to be believed (and I do),she said she has never had a dance lessson until this show.  And I think her arm movement and placement confirms that.

Did you see the video?  That AT didn't happen without some lessons!

[dcubed]

4 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Did you see the video?  That AT didn't happen without some lessons!

I’ve seen the video many times (big fan).  It is clear in her earlier videos she has had no formal dance training.  It seems clear to me now that she has not as well.  If one is musical and has natural rhythm/dance ability, one can be taught a dance or a few dances or routines (Rashad is a great example of this).   Being told “move your arm here and your foot there, arch your back and point your toe) is not the same as lessons where you learn the names of steps, jumps, turns, etc.  But if you think she has, I’m ok with that.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The absurdity of participation 10s was demonstrated better than ever tonight.  The contrast in body movement between the plodding Charleston and the manic Jive sequenced back-to-back was almost beyond possibility.  Wow.

Of course Victoria got the Hough choreo designed to hide a partner (Her smile was so vivacious!) who simply could not move her legs rapidly.  I sincerely admire Victoria's gallantry.  I wish her all the best.  But, she never belonged in the Finals.  It's a genuine shame that her 10s counted every bit as much as Jordan's.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This week's performances:

Spoiler

Opening number (or "number" because there's no dancing)

Tour dance

 

Drew & Emma - tango

Drew & Emma - Corbin & Karina's S17 jazz

Frankie & Witney - salsa

Frankie & Witney - S4 Apolo & Julianne's paso doble

Victoria & Val - contemporary

Victoria & Val - S17 Amber & Derek's Charleston

Lindsey & Mark - contemporary

 

Lindsey & Mark - S18 Meryl & Maks' tango

 

Jordan & Lindsay - tango

 

Jordan & Lindsay - S22 Paige & Mark's

 

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

Except that Jordan is the only one that really needs to take it seriously out of those three because he's the only one that isn't a household name, like Drew is and like Frankie is. They need the show less. 

You're right, it does boggle the mind. You'd think Jordan would be in there 10 hours a day. He has so much more to prove.

Hmm..  Drew is on a crappy cable show and Frankie is just out of hibernation.  They wouldn't be doing this show if they were so not in dire need of a career boost.  Jordan's 23 and an up and comer,  so sue me for voting for the future, not the past.

[MsJamieDornan]

9 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Jordan's 23 and an up and comer,  so sue me for voting for the future, not the past.

Thankfully, at 23, Frankie didn't need a career boost.

[Andie1]

1 minute ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Thankfully, at 23, Frankie didn't need a career boost.

Oh right.  The lost years.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

Drew is on a crappy cable show and Frankie is just out of hibernation.  They wouldn't be doing this show if they were so not in dire need of a career boost.

Crappy?  Not according to his fans.

Edited November 14, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, dcubed said:

I’ve seen the video many times (big fan).  It is clear in her earlier videos she has had no formal dance training.  It seems clear to me now that she has not as well.  If one is musical and has natural rhythm/dance ability, one can be taught a dance or a few dances or routines (Rashad is a great example of this).   Being told “move your arm here and your foot there, arch your back and point your toe) is not the same as lessons where you learn the names of steps, jumps, turns, etc.  But if you think she has, I’m ok with that.  

Derek clearly taught her the Argentine Tango for this particular video.  And frankly, it's great (she has so much more chemistry with Derek than with Mark.  And I never say that about Hough - he ain't sexy to me!).   That was my only point.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My thing with all art, including dance, is that it needs to stand on its own merits. You shouldn't need an explanation from the creator to get it. That's one of the reasons I LOVE watching dances from shows like DWTS and SYTYCD online. The dances are posted on the official youtube channels usually without the intro package or judging so all I see is the 90 seconds of performance.

Too often in past seasons, the dancers have benefited from some sob story about why this dance is sooooooooo meaningful (SYTYCD - Mia's Dead Daddy dance is one of the biggest offenders because if you watched just the routine without her sobbing about how it's about her dead daddy, it's just two people on a dance show NOT DANCING on a stage covered in fake flowers). During Victoria's contemporary, my reactions ranged from "WTF, is it trio week again?" "Why the fuck is Jenna in this dance?" "Why are Jenna and Val in matching costumes?" and "When is Victoria going to dance?" To me, that says the concept of the dance was not great to begin with.

HATED Mark and Lindsey's tango mostly because I couldn't see most of the actual dancing. Here's a great idea! We'll put both people in head to toe black costumes, have a black background, and no lights except some blinding rainbow lasers. And we'll throw in some close up shots and use the spinny camera. That will really show off the dancing!

I was really worried for Drew when I saw that he was doing a Corbin dance. I thought it was going to be a sloppy flailing mess. Drew ended up doing better than I expected but he and Victoria were obviously the worst dancers left this week. I think the main reason that Emma did that crazy lift with him is because he is REALLY tall (which puts her head that much higher off the ground), but she is still brave for trusting him with that lift.

Although Frankie isn't the best dancer, what I love is how committed he is to each dance. I don't even mean his acting and becoming the character either. It seems like he has settings for intensity and how aggressive to be (for his movements, not his acting) and that he can turn the knob to any setting at will. With dance, there is a whole range of intensity for any given movement, no matter how simple. If you just move your hand so that it's in front of you facing palm out, you can do it softly like you're stroking a soft blanket or you can do it very aggressively like you're telling someone to stop immediately or even more aggressively like a martial arts move. Frankie has done a good job of tuning that intensity of movement appropriately for his dances. He's still a bit stiff sometimes when he dances, but I was surprised by his samba. I honestly thought it was going to be a complete mess so I was pleasantly surprised by the overall performance.

Jordan's jive was insanely good. As I said last week, I don't care how much training he has if I get to watch amazing performances like that.

2 hours ago, tessaforever said:

I loved Mark & Paige's jive and have watched it 50 times, but a few little mistakes always bugged me. I could not believe that Jordan and Lindsey did an even faster jive and their timing was even better. Listen - female ringers have won (Nicole, Meryl) and they did so because their partners gave them a chance to shine the way Lindsey is doing with Jordan.

Agree 100%, hope that iconic dances go the way of switch-up week.

 

2 hours ago, doLLish said:

Such an EXCELLENT point.

The pro you have, what they do with/for you and their decision making matters so much. All the dance experience in the world can’t save you from bland choreography, a terrible freestyle and stupid costume choices.

ITA that having a good partner is key. You need to have someone who makes good choices in choreography and costumes if you want to get very far on this show. There have been several celebs who I felt could have lasted longer if their pro had given them better choreography, better costumes, better music, etc.

And that's another reason why I don't like this iconic dance thing. The original dance was designed for a different celeb to highlight their strengths and camouflage their weaknesses. If you don't have the same strengths and weaknesses, the dance probably won't work for you.

2 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Yeah,  I know what you mean by weird, but Mark was laying it on thick tonight about her having no experience and that just bugs.  If you have it why hide it?   Well we know why.  

 

2 hours ago, NeverLate said:

Why? She did that one dance with Derek, and was it good? Hmm, not really.

Well, Jennifer Grey was accused of being a ringer during her season because she did one dance with Patrick Swayze. Apparently learning one dance routine was enough to get the "it's not faaaaaaair that she's a professional dancer" comments for Jennifer. Thank goodness she won anyway because she was awesome!

4 hours ago, MooCat Pretzel said:

There are days where I like Erin and there are days where I don’t.  Today I LOVE her because she referenced The Cutting Edge, one of most under-appreciated cinematic works of the 90s!

One summer in college, I temped as a file clerk. They hired a bunch of us to spend eight hours a day going through paperwork and then filing it correctly. This obviously required very little brain power so we would get bored and start talking about the most random stuff just to keep from being bored to death. One day one of the girls mentioned that she loved The Cutting Edge and EVERYONE immediately piped up with, "OMG, I LOVE THAT MOVIE!" I swear, that kept us going for a good two days.

[MsJamieDornan]

20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

(SYTYCD - Mia's Dead Daddy dance is one of the biggest offenders because if you watched just the routine without her sobbing about how it's about her dead daddy, it's just two people on a dance show NOT DANCING on a stage covered in fake flowers).

Damn you. I thought I had that out of my mind. Never bring it up again! (lol)  Mia is a big ol' turd.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

31 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Damn you. I thought I had that out of my mind. Never bring it up again! (lol)  Mia is a big ol' turd.

Ha, sorry for making you remember that awful "dance" again!

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Crappy?  Not according to his fans, ratings, contract renewals, and paycheck.

Fixed that.  ? 

[calipiano81]

Drew/Emma: 

I thought both of his dances were OK. He's regressed a little with his technique, but I find him easy to watch, he's got charm, and he's a good performer.

Victoria/Val:

Like the judges, I thought the contemporary was well-constructed and the dancing was heartfelt. Having Jenna in the dance didn't bother me. 

The Charleston was also well done, but my problem was that it didn't really complete the assignment of paying homage to the iconic dance they were given. It seemed like it could have been a dance done for any other week, where the show gives them a song to reuse.

Jordan/Lindsay:

Their AT was well-danced as usual, but it was the first time this season that I felt unsatisfied by Jordan's amount of dancing in a routine and thought that Lindsay did most of the work. 

The dancing for their jive was much more equally distributed. I'm much too biased by my favorite pro (Mark) to express an opinion, but I knew J/L would get a perfect score as long as they had the technique and the energy. Plus, it's hard not to win people over when you have a song like "Proud Mary."

Lindsey/Mark:

The Alexander Jean song fit what was being expressed about Lindsey (her perseverance) and it fit the dance style they were performing. The fact that it was written by Mark and his wife doesn't change that. For someone who doesn't have formal training, I think Lindsey has great flexibility and agility. I thought the ending of their contemporary was particularly impactful.

Meryl was always perfection and Lindsey was never going to live up to that, but I thought she did a very respectable job. I also really enjoyed their take on the tango...Meryl/Maks were like a couple who felt passionately about each other but were having issues/tension in their relationship; Lindsey/Mark felt like a couple that was comfortable with each other, but still had some sparks going (Lindsey seemed to play it flirtatiously in spots).

 

Frankie/Witney:

Frankie committed to the performance as he always does, but Witney has infused hip hop/boy-band moves into all of Frankie's fast Latin this season, so their salsa just seemed like more of the same. I agree that Frankie shouldn't have been pressured into taking off his shirt.

I enjoyed their paso much more. It was risky to do so much of the original choreography, but I thought they did a good job (though I agree that shoulders and shaping could have been better).

Edited November 14, 2017 by calipiano81

[Andie1]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Fixed that.  ? 

Fixing Property bros would be to take it off the air.  It’s just so tiresome compared to better shows of its genre. 

6 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Except that Jordan is the only one that really needs to take it seriously out of those three because he's the only one that isn't a household name, like Drew is and like Frankie is. They need the show less. 

You're right, it does boggle the mind. You'd think Jordan would be in there 10 hours a day. He has so much more to prove.

Oh so it was okay for Rashad to log the most rehearsal time to win it, because he had no experience, but mr businessman is too important to learn to dance. I get it. They are on the show for no reason except to collect a pay cheque. Good to know. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

7 hours ago, dcubed said:

He didn’t say she didn’t have experience, he said she had no training.   He said she danced in her videos while playing violin and the proceeded to show an earlier video where her movement is pretty bad.  If she is to be believed (and I do),she said she has never had a dance lessson until this show.  And I think her arm movement and placement confirms that.

When is training not training.  When pro Derek Hough just floats in for a video where she does Argentine dance movement and lifts that are used in the sci fi piece for the show is not training? Derek taught her nothing then, she didn’t have any professional choreography for her video. She just miraculously knew how to get into a lift on her own? She’s like Sharna but without the training! 

And of course they didn’t rehearse that a bizzillion times for the camera for the vid so that muscle memory would kick in and come in really handy for when Argentine Tango and even some Paso was on the show. Good to know that Derek has such little influence in training.  It was only one or maybe 2 dances,  but to me that drilling of technique with Derek made all the difference for her to get a 30. But I’m not mad at it, Mark just needs to chill and stop misinforming people for votes. Because obviously he dug around for an old video, not the Arena to show the audience. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Andie1

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Did you see the video?  That AT didn't happen without some lessons!

What Mark said in the pre-package is that Lindsey's had no real dance lessons. I think, with the video, Derek most likely came in and told her what to do and how to point her toes or stretch out her arms and such, but she didn't get proper dance training in the professional sense. He probably didn't tell her about the importance of the AT, and there's a likely chance that she was only shown the moves used for the video. So, sure, she has had one dance lesson or two for a dance she did for a video (most likely taking place over a week), but it's not like she's done dance lessons for years or been in studios for all her videos to do dance. I would say there's a difference between being trained and being taught; not a big difference, but one nonetheless. She is self-taught so other videos show her musicality as she's always loved to dance.

For the record, I do think she was originally a frontrunner and considered a ringer by many pre-season because of the video, and do think she has some dance experience, but not to the extent that other ringers/frontrunners have had over the years. 

Did the Derek video help with her AT? Sure, it could have, much like Jordan's previous Disney dance work has helped him in certain dances. However, I do still think that she's improved this season.

I rewatched Jordan's Jive and loved it more the second time around, but I'm not sure why I don't love it initially. I know he's an amazing dancer and loved his salsa last week, but I don't get exited over his dances like I do with Lindsey and Frankie. I had this problem with Normani last season too. She was good, but she wasn't the one I was rooting for (it was Nancy, Rashad, and Nick). This season, I am totally fine with Jordan winning, and I think he deserves it (as does Lindsay) but I'm rooting for Lindsey and Frankie. 

[penbrat]

I so enjoyed both of Jordan's dances, especially the Jive, which is by far my favorite dance of the season (for me it is up there with Alfonso's jive during his season).   I hope Jordan wins but I would not be upset if Mark and Lindsey win (even though I don't think Mark's creativity has been as great this season and I think Lindsey could take anything he throws at her).   But that being said, I HATE contemporary and thought their dance last night was beautiful.

[bealled]

I felt badly for Victoria since she seemed pretty upset to leave. I think the show has been taking a toll on her body though since she has been having spasms. Val definitely has had to dance around her some, I think because she is very limited. She is still very inspirational and seems like a sweet girl.

The show seems to be prepping for a Jordan win. I don't mind that, but I feel like Lindsey has been getting underscored this season. Also the judges have been getting harsher with Drew and Frankie. I think the show is trying to avoid another David Ross placing second.

I have found this season overall very boring. I know at the end last year it became clear Rashad would win, but at least throughout the season it was very hard to know who would win. I prefer seasons like that which are far more competitive and you have more contestants to root for. I don't really connect with anyone that much this year either aside from Frankie. I like Lindsey but am not super excited about her. Jordan comes across as too rehearsed to me and seems calculated in everything he says. Not saying he's a bad person or not genuine, but I feel he plays certain reactions up.

I'm not really excited for the finale next week. I guess we will see what freestyles we get. I guess I am excited for those. Mark hopefully has something unique up his sleeve. I'm sure Jordan/Lindsay will have a really good freestyle. I also look forward to Frankie's.

[dcubed]

37 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

What Mark said in the pre-package is that Lindsey's had no real dance lessons. I think, with the video, Derek most likely came in and told her what to do and how to point her toes or stretch out her arms and such, but she didn't get proper dance training in the professional sense. He probably didn't tell her about the importance of the AT, and there's a likely chance that she was only shown the moves used for the video. So, sure, she has had one dance lesson or two for a dance she did for a video (most likely taking place over a week), but it's not like she's done dance lessons for years or been in studios for all her videos to do dance. I would say there's a difference between being trained and being taught; not a big difference, but one nonetheless. She is self-taught so other videos show her musicality as she's always loved to dance.

That's what I was trying to say.  You said it much for succinctly. 

[crossover]

8 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

I should have realized that, but when they gave her those 10s, my immediate thought was that they were trying to give her enough points to keep her in the final four. I was like, that dance was a 10? Seriously?? Come ON. It was decent, but in no way a 10. Maybe it's too hard to match the energy that Amber and Derek had with their version of the routine, but Victoria really seemed in slow-motion in comparison. 

I was stunned when she was the one sent home. I really thought they gave her those 10s to keep her in the game.

 

The scores are based on last week's performance.  Normally, these kind of scores are "thank you for playing" scores.  It SEEMS like in the ending weeks, usually you have to do really bad not to get 9s or 10s when you are the one going home.

ETA:  I'm not saying some people don't deserve 9s or 10s.  Just if the scores look suspect during this time for vulnerable lessor celebs, this is probably the reason.

Edited November 14, 2017 by crossover

[NeverLate]

7 hours ago, dcubed said:

I’ve seen the video many times (big fan).  It is clear in her earlier videos she has had no formal dance training.  It seems clear to me now that she has not as well.  If one is musical and has natural rhythm/dance ability, one can be taught a dance or a few dances or routines (Rashad is a great example of this).   Being told “move your arm here and your foot there, arch your back and point your toe) is not the same as lessons where you learn the names of steps, jumps, turns, etc.  But if you think she has, I’m ok with that.  

Derek also taught, or showed Meryl how to dance. She had chemistry with him as well. 

[vibeology]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

What Mark said in the pre-package is that Lindsey's had no real dance lessons. I think, with the video, Derek most likely came in and told her what to do and how to point her toes or stretch out her arms and such, but she didn't get proper dance training in the professional sense. He probably didn't tell her about the importance of the AT, and there's a likely chance that she was only shown the moves used for the video. So, sure, she has had one dance lesson or two for a dance she did for a video (most likely taking place over a week), but it's not like she's done dance lessons for years or been in studios for all her videos to do dance. I would say there's a difference between being trained and being taught; not a big difference, but one nonetheless. She is self-taught so other videos show her musicality as she's always loved to dance.

That's how I see it too. Being taught steps isn't the same thing as being trained to dance where you have a deep physical vocabulary that you can draw on from one routine to the next. The pros are trained, a few celebs a season are trained but most celebs are taught steps. There just isn't enough time to train someone to dance over the course of a ten week season. At best it's a stepping stone for interested celebs choosing to be trained down the line.

Plus, there is a huge difference between learning steps for a recorded dance that can be edited and learning a dance for a live performance. Who knows if Derek went over a sequence before it was filmed, then they cut and he went over the next sequence. She's been taught a dance and taught some steps to do on stage. I'm sure that was helpful in her AT but it's not being a trained dancer.

And all of this is pretty moot in my eyes. I don't care if someone is trained to the heavens or not. I've cheered for both. For me, I want a good dancer to win but I don't need it to be the best dancer. I care about partnerships and personality. I want the pair that wins to love dancing together. I want the celeb who wins to be someone who dug deep, made the most out of the experience and enjoyed the season. I think Lindsey has more experience with dance and performance than Drew or Frankie but less than Jordan. The truth is anyone who makes it to the finals does so because they come into the competition with something in their favour whether it's previous dance training, or being a good actor, or being very athletic or having a big fanbase or a good story that will hook voters or something. No one gets here without something in their favour.

[nutty1]

10 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

My thoughts on the night....

First dance:

Drew--I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm, but it's time for him to go.

Victoria--Umm, okay? It was more of Val picking her up and placing her in her spot than her dancing. And, of course, Val interrupts Bruno for a shout-out to Jenna <eye roll>. Victoria can go, too.

Jordan--I don't like all the smoke. This wasn't my favorite dance of his. I pretty much agree with what Carrie-Ann and Len said. Watching his post-dance interview I was wondering if something was wrong with his eye--that question got answered very quickly.

Lindsey--I don't know what to say about this one. I just can't connect with her. She danced it well, I just couldn't connect to the emotion.

Frankie--He's definitely a performer. That was enjoyable to watch, even though it was a questionable song choice.

I'm getting really tired of people booing Len.

 

Second dance:

Drew--NOOOOOO!!!! Don't ruin my memory of this dance! Oh, thank God--it wasn't an exact replica of the previous dance! I actually found it to be somewhat entertaining, even though there were a lot of technical issues.

Victoria--Still don't get the leg thing. Over-scored because if anybody else had done the dance like that it would have been all 9s at most.

Jordan--And, he's back! That was incredible, awesome, amazing, etc. It was an instant re-watch for me!

Lindsey--To me it looked jerky instead of fluid. It was kind of hard to see some of the dance with the clothes/background being the same color.

Frankie--Yay, finally--confidence! The dance did have some issues, but was happy to see him finally feeling a little bit better about his abilities.

 

You have got to be freaking kidding me!!!  Drew?!

At least Frankie didn't get the boot, then I would have been really irritated!

 

Predictions for next week:

1st--Jordan

2nd--Lindsey

3rd--Frankie

4th--Drew

 

Yea, all that. You saved me some typing!

I'd like to add, I almost peed my pants watching Drew swing Emma around!

I am not a dancer, I don't know specifics of dancing, so I watch for who entertains me. I have loved Jordan since the very first time I saw him. Yea, he is a ringer, but I don't care. He is a great dancer and so enjoyable. And I would be thrilled to have Lindsay (the pro) win also! I actually liked all 5 couples in the semi finals.

I have seen several references to Frankie being in the bottom 2. However, no one said he was. What was said was "one of these couples received the lowest score". (or something close to that).  I will be shocked if the order isn't what's written in the post I quoted.

Edited November 14, 2017 by nutty1

[dcubed]

6 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Derek clearly taught her the Argentine Tango for this particular video.  And frankly, it's great (she has so much more chemistry with Derek than with Mark.  And I never say that about Hough - he ain't sexy to me!).   That was my only point.

I didn't explain myself very well so let me use an analogy that I'm more familiar with, which would be learning a song on the piano.  When I was young, there was a song by Chicago called Color My World, with a great piano part that consisted of basically major and minor chords.  My friend really wanted to learn the piece so she sat down and memorized the keys.  She practiced it over and over again and with the help of another friend, she learned the dynamics as well.  The friend who took piano and played flute helped her and together we performed that piece at a talent show (I sang).  She worked hard on it, she was taught some things by our friend and me and she performed it pretty well.  But she wasn't really trained on the piano in that if she sat down and was told "Play a C major chord, crescendo in the fifth measure, drop to a pianissimo at the end", she couldn't do it because she didn't have the basic knowledge of piano or music for that matter.  So I agree, Lindsey (ay?) was taught that dance, the steps, the movement, but but her account, she didn't have dance training, learning the basics from which all dance is emanates. 

I am not defending or excusing anything.  I just think there's a big difference between learning a dance and having training.  Heck, I could go to Arthur Miller and learn a killer first dance for my wedding but that wouldn't make me a trained dancer.  That would make me someone that learned one dance really, really well. 

I hope this makes more sense but I'm fine if people don't agree with this analogy.  I will say that formal training and lots of it does not a guarantee one will be a good dancer.  I had a dance teacher in high school that had oodles of experience and training and she was a marginal dancer at best because she just didn't have that innate talent.  I was a violist by training and could never do it professionally because I didn't have a "musical gift" that so many musicians have.  Lindsay does have one thing going for her that I don't think can be taught and that is musicality and the ability to be "in the beat" and move appropriately to music.

I understand if not everyone agrees with this analogy but I totally agree with you about one thing and that is that Derek is not sexy :)

6 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Derek clearly taught her the Argentine Tango for this particular video.  And frankly, it's great (she has so much more chemistry with Derek than with Mark.  And I never say that about Hough - he ain't sexy to me!).   That was my only point.

Edited November 14, 2017 by dcubed

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, vibeology said:

And all of this is pretty moot in my eyes. I don't care if someone is trained to the heavens or not. I've cheered for both. For me, I want a good dancer to win but I don't need it to be the best dancer. I care about partnerships and personality. I want the pair that wins to love dancing together. I want the celeb who wins to be someone who dug deep, made the most out of the experience and enjoyed the season. I think Lindsey has more experience with dance and performance than Drew or Frankie but less than Jordan. The truth is anyone who makes it to the finals does so because they come into the competition with something in their favour whether it's previous dance training, or being a good actor, or being very athletic or having a big fanbase or a good story that will hook voters or something. No one gets here without something in their favour.

Completely agreed on all of this. Very well put. 

[Boofish]

12 hours ago, NeverLate said:

Why?others have done this. Heck Val stole his whole win last week, in front of his partner. I love BC Jean singing

I had never heard her singing voice before and it was beautiful. I also really remember loving her wedding dress

[NeverLate]

Quote

I understand if not everyone agrees with this analogy but I totally agree with you about one thing and that is that Derek is not sexy :)

He is to me, I just find his dancing incredibly sexy.Anyone can take their shirt off to distract, but watching Derek come up with a freestyle was poetry in motion, god I miss him. He also didnt cop an attitude every time he was judged, to me, that's sexy ;)..:)

On 14/11/2017 at 8:14 AM, Boofish said:

I had never heard her singing voice before and it was beautiful. I also really remember loving her wedding dress

BC Jean has a great earthy voice! :) 

Edited November 19, 2017 by NeverLate

[dcubed]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

20 minutes ago, vibeology said:

And all of this is pretty moot in my eyes. I don't care if someone is trained to the heavens or not. I've cheered for both. For me, I want a good dancer to win but I don't need it to be the best dancer. I care about partnerships and personality. I want the pair that wins to love dancing together. I want the celeb who wins to be someone who dug deep, made the most out of the experience and enjoyed the season. I think Lindsey has more experience with dance and performance than Drew or Frankie but less than Jordan. The truth is anyone who makes it to the finals does so because they come into the competition with something in their favour whether it's previous dance training, or being a good actor, or being very athletic or having a big fanbase or a good story that will hook voters or something. No one gets here without something in their favour.

Completely agreed on all of this. Very well put. 

Me too!!!!

[djlynch]

Does anyone know how the judges' scores and viewer votes are combined these days? I remember that in the first season, they spelled out that the exact scores didn't matter, just where you ranked relative to the other contestants, then the soap opera fans got in an uproar a season or two later because their choice lost to someone they thought wasn't as good and the producers swore that there would be a change to the scoring system.

[dcubed]

6 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

He is to me, I just find his dancing incredibly sexy.Anyone can take their shirt off to distract, but watching Derek come up with a freestyle was poetry in motion, god I miss him. He also didnt cop an attitude every time he was judged, to me, that's sexy :(

I love his dancing and I LOVE his choreography which is indeed poetry in motion.  He is the most talented pro in terms of dance ability and choreography from the show, imho (with Mark being a close second) but it's when he takes his shirt off that turns me off.  I even enjoyed his critique in that horrible World of Dance show he was on this summer.  But for me, no to sexy.  And that's OK because different strokes and all that.

[spanana]

10 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

You know, for all the talk about how the show seems to favor the male stars over the female stars, we could flip the script and say that the female PROS are finally getting some real recognition and the show has not been heavily biased towards the male pros for once. For example, there are many more male pros who the show has propped and who have attained fame and popularity (e.g., Derek, Mark, Val, and Maks), than female pros (e.g., Cheryl). But Lindsay, in particular, I think has risen to the level of Derek in terms of choreography. Cheryl, Emma, and Witney have also done amazing work with their partners given where they started at the beginning of the season. 

All of this.  Do I want Jordan to win? Yes. Is like 95% of the fact that I want Jordan to win because I want Lindsay to win and get the recognition she deserves fro IMO being the top female pro this show has? Also yes.

[Bliss]

31 minutes ago, vibeology said:

 The truth is anyone who makes it to the finals does so because they come into the competition with something in their favour whether it's previous dance training, or being a good actor, or being very athletic or having a big fanbase or a good story that will hook voters or something. No one gets here without something in their favour.

This. Agreed!

[NeverLate]

7 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I love his dancing and I LOVE his choreography which is indeed poetry in motion.  He is the most talented pro in terms of dance ability and choreography from the show, imho (with Mark being a close second) but it's when he takes his shirt off that turns me off.  I even enjoyed his critique in that horrible World of Dance show he was on this summer.  But for me, no to sexy.  And that's OK because different strokes and all that.

I agree, and he didn't take his shirt as often as many of the pros, there was simply no need, his dancing had all the feels.( sigh) 

I only watched that awful dance show for his critiques. lol

[spanana]

10 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

Frankie did a much better job of acting like Apolo than he did of acting like a random cool dude who has people lift him to the basketball net, thus underlining my point about Witney blowing that song choice.  Of course, he didn't do a better job of dancing like Apolo - but he was pretty dang good in sections of that considering his total lack of danceryness.  I also thought that Witney didn't do the greatest job of Julianne (a person whom I loathe but who I felt totally deserved that win with Apolo).  It was kinda unfair to give them a dance that made them look both look squat and short in comparison the the short lithe bodies of the originals. 

I mostly agree.  I think Witney really blew it 2x last night.  Not that either number was a disaster, but I think both numbers could have been better suited for Frankie.  I understand if he had to do a salsa, but as said, he thrives in character pieces so it made much more sense to give him some kind of salsa with a storyline that he could sink his teeth into and act.  Frankie would have been more comfortable that way and you probably would have gotten a better result.  Guy who plays basketball, similar to troll, is not a storyline on its own.

As for the iconic dance number, I get that Witney was trying to prove that they could pretty much do the exact dance but I think it could have been altered slightly to not only better fit Frankie but fit Witney better.  That split slide thing didn't really work on Witney because Witney doesn't have Julianne's natural flexibility.  She should have sacrificed a few parts of the dance to make it fit them as a couple better and you would have still gotten the same general effect.

By the way, last thought on the Val contemp number, but I also think Val is angling for an Emmy nom for him and his boo and he felt last night was a way to try and get that.  I'd be surprised if it works since it's much harder to get DWTS Emmy noms these days, unless your name is Derek or Mandy Moore, but still.

Edited November 14, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

11 hours ago, doLLish said:

The way they treat men on this show, they don’t even have to be ringers, has never sat well with me and never will. Men are allowed to be mediocre to bad and still sail through with Carrie Ann fawning over their hot bodies while talented women are nitpicked to death and eliminated left and right.

I’m just not seeing much of that this season. Definitely not to the extent of last season which was so bad I really almost swore off of this show forever. Jordan and Lindsay are arguably 1 and 2 when it comes to talent and both deserve to win. Both have received heaps of praise and some criticism. The only dance I thought Lindsay was underscored for was her trio. 

I agree, since none of the men this season were hot except TO. There isn't anyone left for Bruno and CA to fawn over.

Edited November 14, 2017 by boyznkatz

[Toonces464]

10 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Agreed. 

And, screw Keo for even bringing up Maks name from backstage.

I wouldn't be so sure it was Keo who brought his name up as much as Erin using him to bring up Maks's name because she obviously knew he was back there and planning to come out and "surprise" everyone.

[Runningwild]

I haven’t read all the comments yet but I am hoping someone can help me figure out why I don’t care for Jordan. I am apparently one of the few who loved Alfonso and wanted him to win so it’s not necessarily that he’s a ringer. Although Alfonso is quite a bit older and it had been some time since he had danced professionally. I assume there is dancing in Hamilton? Never cared for Corbin either.  Maybe it’s Jordan’s personality. He seems like a nice enough kid, but there is something about him that makes him seem smug and cocky. Not overtly, but it’s there. 

 

Rooting for Frankie or Lindsay. I like Drew, but he’s not that good. And I am surprised to find myself liking Mark this year. 

 

ETA- Also, I don’t consider those “iconic” dances to be iconic. I think the only one I remembered was the one with the cartwheels. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Runningwild

[sinkwriter]

Forgot to note that I loved how Jordan and Lindsay started out in the red outfits in their Iconic Dance routine, looking just like Mark and Paige, but right before the faster beat kicked in, they switched to gold costumes. Kind of their fun way of saying, "We're not exactly the same - we're going to make this our own. Let's go!" 

[sinycalone]

Neither Drew nor Victoria deserve(d) to be in the finals....neither has shown any improvement in weeks.  One of the them probably should have been eliminated last week.  

Having never watched Property Bros., have no clue the what type of audience they reach....but that audience seems to be supporting Drew no matter his skill level.  Hardly the first time this has happened...so I'm not shocked.  Victoria is a trooper, and I admire her determination.....but it was more than time to go.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I haven’t read all the comments yet but I am hoping someone can help me figure out why I don’t care for Jordan. I am apparently one of the few who loved Alfonso and wanted him to win so it’s not necessarily that he’s a ringer. Although Alfonso is quite a bit older and it had been some time since he had danced professionally. I assume there is dancing in Hamilton? Never cared for Corbin either.  Maybe it’s Jordan’s personality. He seems like a nice enough kid, but there is something about him that makes him seem smug and cocky. Not overtly, but it’s there. 

Someone noted in a previous thread that Jordan tends to talk in sound bites, which make him sound a bit over-rehearsed instead of genuine. I do think we see that a lot in Jordan and in people who are in fields where they have to talk in sound bites - a lot of the sports figures sound like that too, mainly because they've spent most of their careers having to talk like that ("I just want to thank the fans... we're just happy to be here, in the playoffs..." etc.). It makes it tough to get to know the person because it's like they're "on best behavior" instead of showing their inherent personality. 

However... I do think in recent weeks and especially this week we got to see more of the "real" Jordan. I loved seeing him with his siblings ("I know where you sleep..." Haaa!) and when he was goofing around in the background while Lindsay was talking on camera. I think the slightly geeky, goofy, funny Jordan and the stressed out, perfectionist Jordan are much more his genuine personality shining through, and I loved seeing it.

[Quickbeam]

10 hours ago, TroopinFairy said:

Also I’m mad and I HATE that Great July ruined “I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)”.

That was really tragic. Like a muscial Culloden! 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Drew is on a crappy cable show and Frankie is just out of hibernation.  They wouldn't be doing this show if they were so not in dire need of a career boost. 

Drew and his brother are on a bunch of shows on HGTV, and their main show, Property Brothers, is the #1 show on that network. (I honestly have no idea why; it just is.) Plus they have books and furniture lines and gigs and other stuff - neither needs a career boost, they're both doing just fine. 

And I think that speaks to why he's still here. Clearly he's the weakest dancer left, but he's getting lots of votes. There's probably a lot of crossover with the HGTV audience - let's face it, that network, and this show, are both watched predominantly by women. I think that may also have something to do with the cranky attitude Len has had with Drew all season long - he knows he's getting the most votes and doesn't think he deserves to.

We know who the judges want, and I'm pretty sure it's within their power to prevent either Drew or Frankie from winning. They just can't keep them out of the finals and I'm sure the network doesn't want them to either. 

[tessaforever]

12 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

And at least in one case because they knew how to play a showmance. ;)

I hope those have gone the way of switch-up week as well!!

That move that Drew and Emma did - for sure it was The Cutting Edge all over again...also IIRC, it's not allowed in skating competitions? There was this one Canadian figure skater couple that could do that move, but only for exhibitions. It's so dangerous!

Aw, Victoria. Such a sweet young woman. But I don't think she realized that she made it that far because of Val and his fanbase (and TPTB's agenda for him), and her story. And also that she's sweet and pretty. But not her dancing. But I think she should be proud of how far she came given her limitations. 

[giaNtsandYankees]

I felt genuinely bad for Victoria when she was eliminated, and her reaction. But honestly, I kept forgetting her. When my brother asked me who was still left, I ran off the names of Drew, Lindsay, Jordan and Frankie...and then I saw Victoria and thought, "Whoops!" Then when it was elimination time, and Drew and Lindsay were announced as "safe" I thought, "Either Jordan or Frankie are gone." 

With Drew and Emma's first dance...I don't know if it was the song that was chosen, but the entire dance, I was trying to figure what kind of dance they were doing. With the second dance, I held my breath while Drew was lifting and spinning Emma around, and so quickly! I'm glad he pulled it off.

Max, stay away. Please. I liked him on his season with Meryl, but I've been disliking him during the previous seasons. His elimination reaction made me happy that he was off of my screen.

Like a few here, while watching Victoria's and Val's first dance, I was thinking, "This should have been their trio" but TPTB had a different plan for their Trios last week.

Val interrupting the judges to thank *cough* promote Jenna. Meh. It reminded me of last season when Normani interrupted the judges after her freestyle to thank them for helping her to find her light. I liked how Val consoled Victoria when she cried after her elimination. Quite the contrast to how his brother acted after his elimination. Val seems to be the more compassionate of the two...even with his ego.

[SnarkyTart]

By now, people are going to support who they support for whatever reason they choose.  Nobody is going to be convinced to change their minds by lather>rinse>repeat that Jordan is a ringer (is not!), Lindsey isn't a ringer (is too!), Frankie is the most pure contestant (is not!), Drew is awful (is not!), the audience hates women (do not!).

For me, Jordan is the best dancer and his performances provide the best entertainment.  FOR ME.  His jive last night was, imo, one of the best jives across all seasons.  His Argentine Tango was a hot mess.  Lindsey's contemporary wasn't anything special and the choreography was lacking.  Her Tango was well performed, but the shadow of Maks and Meryl was too large to be overcome.  Frankie's salsa was another hot mess, but he did well enough with his Paso.   Drew made me laugh, but the boy can't dance.  Was Victoria there last night? (I kid, but everything about her simply bores me.)

Hoping for a finale of outstanding dances by both Jordan and Lindsey, and hoping that the Property Brothers' huge crossover demographic doesn't propel Drew into the final 2, because that would be rather tragic.

[Andie1]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Derek most likely came in and told her what to do and how to point her toes or stretch out her arms and such, but she didn't get proper dance training in the professional sense. He probably didn't tell her about the importance of the AT, and there's a likely chance that she was only shown the moves used for the video.

Anytime a pro dancer is showing someone what to do they are on the clock.  This undermining professional dance teachers just so that Lindsey looks like a hayseed is just absolute bs.  The pros on the show are not teaching dance for dance sake, they are teaching choreography, to the likes of Drew and Frankie because it would take forever to get them to a point where they were dance students.  They do not have the patience or the stamina that Rashad has to be able to put in the time necessary to really earn a championship instead of ride a popularity wave. Lindsey got a huge advantage for the AT when she got the choreography for it well ahead of time and could practice it for hours upon hours for it to look right for the camera.  That is as good as it gets for this show.  Regardless if she had a background in dance or not she got a DWTS pro champ to train her for a video in which she did not suck and in fact the same lifts were used for the live show.  No she did not get the same training for other dances, and frankly it shows.

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, tessaforever said:

I hope those have gone the way of switch-up week as well!!

That move that Drew and Emma did - for sure it was The Cutting Edge all over again...also IIRC, it's not allowed in skating competitions? There was this one Canadian figure skater couple that could do that move, but only for exhibitions. It's so dangerous!

Isabelle Brasseur and Lloyd Eisler!

Edited November 14, 2017 by boyznkatz