S25.E10: Week 9: Semi-Finals

[calipiano81]

Paige and Mark's jive didn't have heat per se, but it had a lot of sass and attitude, and  Paige definitely channeled her inner Tina Turner, which was cool to see.

[crossover]

2 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

If everyone knows that Lindsey is no Meryl Davis, then why critique her as if she is?

For her level of dancing, I thought Lindsey did a really fine job and Mark, once again, gave her a lot of content. I thought her upper body and frame were improved from her previous dances. I liked that it never felt like Mark was dragging her across the floor; she kept in step with him quite nicely. The lunge positions and a few hand gestures she did I thought were lovely. And I thought she and Mark had a little bit of subtle heat of their own.

Agree.  It is a recreation not a redo.  One of the things they grappled with was the speed of Lindsey's turns vs Meryl's?  I thought Mark's choreography feel was different for that portion.  Mark/Lindsey had a different kind of sexual chemistry going on.  She was more of a shy (subtle turns, cuddly, long term) willing girl.  Meryl was more of a fast (fast turns, a whirlwind, one-nighter) let's get it on girl.  If you wanted the Meryl/Maks tango feel, then I can see why you would be a little disappointed in Mark/Lindsey's.  But my tin foil says TPTB wanted something to ping her with, but why?  Do they not want her in the F3?  Or are they hoping her fanbase will energize and uproot Jordan?

Edited to change Mark/Paige to Mark/Lindsey. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by crossover

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 9 (in alphabetical order):

 

 

Frankie & Witney (Iconic Paso Doble) - liked the appealing change in musical arrangement, the flamenco touch on top and Witney's successful split into Frankie's hold after his attacking knee walks. Enjoyed the engaging paso pyrotechnics that complemented the routine, thought Frankie had the right aggression and dominance at the top to start with, and liked the nice, confident fregolinesque cape work with Witney afterwards. Maybe a bit more shaping in the twist turn section (Len) and to calm the jumpy appels a bit. Though the shoulders seem to be a reoccurring theme in his routines (Bruno), thought Frankie nonetheless tried to carryout the torso shaping throughout to the best of his ability. Nice he had a range of routines (rap, horror, dominance, caricature) to build upon in previous weeks, and looking forward to Frankie building upon them during his freestyle.

 

Jordan & Lindsay (Iconic Jive) - liked how the slick outfit change signified a new, refreshing update of the original jive (Bruno); burst of sustained high energy out onto the stage, unfailing quality of movement from start to finish.  Thought it had the technique, bounce, changes of energy, quick and slow actions - all with knees and feet naturally buoyant throughout. Was hoping prior that the double cartwheel could be carried out well with extended, straight legs, and was glad and delighted to see that they were able to do so in the remake as well (Carrie Ann). Think its also nice that they were able to build up to the jive late into the competition, as Jordan's built up stamina played a key role. It was easy to watch, thought Jordan had nice rhythm and agree that their semi-final jive performance safely made it into the annals of DWTS latin routines (Len).

 

Lindsey & Mark (Iconic Tango) - thought it was nice to see the pulsating white lights on top to differentiate the remake from the original.  Liked the Argentine touch on stage, her expressive free arm and how she elongates her leg extensions right to her toes. Nice to see the flexibility in the lunges and though her body may have not found the frame comfortable at first, thought she did her best to keep it firm and steady. Maybe a bit more of a cleaner spin once on the floor, and to keep her left hand a bit closed in hold and parallel to the floor. Think its nice that she's partnered with someone who has experience in the finals, and who is also accustomed to the pressure and nuances that come with it. If they find a freestyle routine that suits her character and fits her body type/personality, think they'll have an enjoyable moment on the floor come Monday night.

 

 

Congrats to the winners of season 25 DWTS 2017 and wishing them the very best moving forward.  Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[lavenderblue]

The redo picks for the top two couples (Jordan/Lindsay and Lindsey/Mark, that is) do bug me, because they gave me a weirdly manipulative feeling.

1. Lindsay and Jordan had the only dance that was originally from a pro who's still in the contest. Further, the only case in which the original pro was the same sex as the celeb here -- the end result being, the dance was executed well, so the judges can then make outright comparisons between Jordan and Mark, not a prior celeb. That's a very interesting comparison to establish.

2. Assigning a team a Meryl and Maks routine is also loading that team down with a whole lot of baggage that I don't think exists for those who had routines from other winners -- I don't think Amber or even Apolo offer up this sort of "no way to win" comparison for a celeb or couple, and even in the Frankie case, he's not here at this point on the strength of his dancing -- no one could expect him to match or exceed in an exact recreation -- whereas Lindsey more or less is. Combine that with the show choosing, within that framework, a ballroom style that Mark obviously doesn't enjoy, and repeatedly reminding how they just don't have that Maksyl! chemistry!...it feels like it was never meant to succeed.

[crossover]

9 hours ago, bealled said:

I feel like Alfonso and Bindi were the clear front runners for their season though, whereas Lindsey isn't. Did Alfonso and Bindi even have much competition (I don't remember anyone coming close on their seasons; I think Nick Carter was second on Bindi's but his dancing was not that impressive). Amber was the only one possibly similar to Lindsey in comparison, but Amber was paired with the most popular pro on the show (Derek) and people still had heavy speculation she would win. Corbin/Jordan are definitely similar, but it seems like people in general like Jordan better than they did Corbin. I remember Corbin having a lot of detractors back then and everyone considered him a huge ringer. I don't think Karina is that popular of a pro either (at least with general viewers) and I think Lindsay is very popular. Honestly I think being paired with Derek gave Amber a huge boost.

I think Amber had the fanbase going into the competition.  What her partnership with Derek did was not to lose any of the support because of how he choreographed for her.  I THINK the first week's cha cha just about ensured no one would beat her, especially with that personality of hers.  Some celebs get paired with a pro and never click, choreography doesn't suit them, etc.  Then their support fades away.  Emmitt, Apolo, Hines, Donald, Meryl, Kristi, Shawn, Jennifer, Alfonso, Laurie and Donny came in with large fanbases as well.  Other winners like Bindi, Rumer etc had their support blowup within the first couple of weeks.  MAYBE TPTB helped to foster the image a little bit.

[Padma]

Drew's likeable, but dance-wise, I thought he's regressing. His posture is worse and he looks clunky in some of the dances. Also, it really is annoying for the audience to boo every time someone gives a criticism. They NEED it and for many, you can see it actually helps them.

Frankie's another who's likeable and is a better dancer than Drew, by far. But ITA that he's inconsistent and this is, after all, the semi-finals. I thought Drew should have gone before--or with--Victoria, but Frankie really shouldn't be there either.  Mark seems a little off his game this season with Lindsey, but I always look forward to what he will bring.

Jordan's excellent. Lindsay is a terrific choreographer and dancer. I don't see how they won't win. They truly stand out this season and deserve it. Hope the dances will be better next week than this one.

[luvthepros]

21 hours ago, dcubed said:

I love his dancing and I LOVE his choreography which is indeed poetry in motion.  He is the most talented pro in terms of dance ability and choreography from the show, imho (with Mark being a close second) but it's when he takes his shirt off that turns me off.  I even enjoyed his critique in that horrible World of Dance show he was on this summer.  But for me, no to sexy.  And that's OK because different strokes and all that.

I haven't figured out how to post a photo on this forum so I can't give you any recent photos of Derek and his buff upper body. I Googled "Derek Hough shirtless" and you will be amazed how muscle bound Derek is these days. He has transformed his body and it looks really well on him.

[bealled]

6 hours ago, crossover said:

I think Amber had the fanbase going into the competition.  What her partnership with Derek did was not to lose any of the support because of how he choreographed for her.  I THINK the first week's cha cha just about ensured no one would beat her, especially with that personality of hers.  Some celebs get paired with a pro and never click, choreography doesn't suit them, etc.  Then their support fades away.  Emmitt, Apolo, Hines, Donald, Meryl, Kristi, Shawn, Jennifer, Alfonso, Laurie and Donny came in with large fanbases as well.  Other winners like Bindi, Rumer etc had their support blowup within the first couple of weeks.  MAYBE TPTB helped to foster the image a little bit.

I just think if Amber was paired with a different pro partner, I don't think she would have beaten Corbin. Derek is a great choreographer and can often bring out the best in his partners. Amber is a fun personality, but I just have a hard time seeing her win if paired with a different pro. I know Bindi and Rumer were still well known names prior to being cast, and I viewed them as front runners before their season started. I think people just weren't sure prior to the show started because they didn't know if they could dance or not (I don't think either of them had dance experience?).

[bealled]

7 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

The redo picks for the top two couples (Jordan/Lindsay and Lindsey/Mark, that is) do bug me, because they gave me a weirdly manipulative feeling.

1. Lindsay and Jordan had the only dance that was originally from a pro who's still in the contest. Further, the only case in which the original pro was the same sex as the celeb here -- the end result being, the dance was executed well, so the judges can then make outright comparisons between Jordan and Mark, not a prior celeb. That's a very interesting comparison to establish.

2. Assigning a team a Meryl and Maks routine is also loading that team down with a whole lot of baggage that I don't think exists for those who had routines from other winners -- I don't think Amber or even Apolo offer up this sort of "no way to win" comparison for a celeb or couple, and even in the Frankie case, he's not here at this point on the strength of his dancing -- no one could expect him to match or exceed in an exact recreation -- whereas Lindsey more or less is. Combine that with the show choosing, within that framework, a ballroom style that Mark obviously doesn't enjoy, and repeatedly reminding how they just don't have that Maksyl! chemistry!...it feels like it was never meant to succeed.

I think the show is pushing hard for Jordan to win. I'm not really sure where the show is going with Lindsey. I think they wanted her in the finals, but I don't think they want her to win. I didn't notice that Jordan was the only one directly comparing to a pro but you are right. I would think that allows some leeway too for the judges to go easier on the celeb since they won't expect you to do better than a pro but then if you do well they can compare you to the pro. That's kind of a win/win. I thought Drew and Lindsey both got bad routines to compare to. Corbin was one of the best male dancers ever on the show, although at least it wasn't some iconic dance. But still, no way Drew could compare. Lindsey got the dance of one of the most popular pairings on the entire show, and probably the best female to ever be on the show, and a couple that had a lot of sexual chemistry. I definitely feel there was no way she could top the original. Frankie was compared to one of the more iconic celebs too, but I still think Drew/Lindsey had the biggest disadvantage for that.

Edited November 15, 2017 by bealled

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, bealled said:

I just think if Amber was paired with a different pro partner, I don't think she would have beaten Corbin. Derek is a great choreographer and can often bring out the best in his partners.

And Derek has a huge fan base.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

And Derek has a huge fan base.

And Amber had a huge fan base that season. I always believed that Amber was second only to Bill that season in viewer votes and Tristan sort of confirmed that on Afterbuzz after the finale, when he said Amber always had the crowd in a way Corbin never did. 

[boyznkatz]

12 hours ago, Andie1 said:

 

I do not think Lindsey is a ringer. She does not dance well enough to be a ringer in the Meryl Davis sense.  But she did get some training prior to the show, and surprise surprise it is a dance she got a 30 on.  Not a biggie, but Mark needs to stop flogging the no training thing. She had it and it worked really well for this show.

I really don't care about her training one way or the other. She really hasn't wowed me the last couple of weeks. Maybe it's her injury. I think at this point it's Jordan's to lose. I didn't think he would win earlier, but I think so now.

[luvthepros]

9 hours ago, crossover said:

Well I was fine with it because I didn't see/feel the heat from Paige/Mark's jive either.

I'm with you on this. This Jive is danced so fast, where is the time to emote any kind of emotion....certainly not heat, IMHO. After reading that there was so much heat between Mark and Paige in their Jive, I kept thinking "what did I miss". I watched Mark and Paige a couple of times to see the "heat" but I just don't. What I see is a couple having lots of fun and Mark being technically awesome as usual as he is a Jive king. (Not so good with the cartwheels but that is not a Jive move anyway).

Want to see heat? Watch Mark's parents dancing Jive. I absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this number. Corky is such a riot.....

Corky and Shirley Ballas - Jive

[bealled]

42 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

And Amber had a huge fan base that season. I always believed that Amber was second only to Bill that season in viewer votes and Tristan sort of confirmed that on Afterbuzz after the finale, when he said Amber always had the crowd in a way Corbin never did. 

I still think Derek had an influence. He alone brings a lot of popularity to all of his pairings. He has his own fan base more so than anyone else on the show. I know my mom was often a viewer who rooted for Derek no matter what when he was on the show, and if he was in the finals she'd say she wanted Derek to win, not that she wanted X partner to win. I think one of the few times being Derek's partner worked against them was when he was paired with Shawn. I think that came down to them being overconfident and not following the rules, as well as viewers wanting a new winner since Shawn won her season and Melissa didn't (also fans wanted Tony to finally win). Otherwise Derek's partners tend to do extremely well/win or rank higher than normally would have (Marilu).

Corbin was paired with Karina who I just don't think is that popular of a female pro in comparison to Cheryl, Emma, or Lindsay (if these pros are popular, not sure of any insanely loved female pros the same way Derek is; Julianne probably would have been if she continued on the show). I know a lot of people online love Karina but I don't know how well the general public cares about her. I feel like they would view her a bit forgettable. Anyway, perhaps Amber would have still won if paired with someone else, but we will never know. A lot goes into making a certain contestant win though, and unless it is a completely non-competitive season, who you are paired with does make an impact.

Edited November 15, 2017 by bealled

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, bealled said:

I still think Derek had an influence.

I didn't say he didn't. He was her Pro and it was his choreography. Of course his work and his own fan base played a part as well. I was just acknowledging that Amber did bring in her own fans as well, which solidified her win. 

[spanana]

9 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

The redo picks for the top two couples (Jordan/Lindsay and Lindsey/Mark, that is) do bug me, because they gave me a weirdly manipulative feeling.

1. Lindsay and Jordan had the only dance that was originally from a pro who's still in the contest. Further, the only case in which the original pro was the same sex as the celeb here -- the end result being, the dance was executed well, so the judges can then make outright comparisons between Jordan and Mark, not a prior celeb. That's a very interesting comparison to establish.

2. Assigning a team a Meryl and Maks routine is also loading that team down with a whole lot of baggage that I don't think exists for those who had routines from other winners -- I don't think Amber or even Apolo offer up this sort of "no way to win" comparison for a celeb or couple, and even in the Frankie case, he's not here at this point on the strength of his dancing -- no one could expect him to match or exceed in an exact recreation -- whereas Lindsey more or less is. Combine that with the show choosing, within that framework, a ballroom style that Mark obviously doesn't enjoy, and repeatedly reminding how they just don't have that Maksyl! chemistry!...it feels like it was never meant to succeed.

I think there is a point to be made here and I do think the show is giving Jordan a boost, but I think if any of the 5 remaining were set up to fail with the so-called assigned "iconic" dances it was Drew.  Giving Drew a Corbin routine, especially in a genre outside of ballroom, was made for Drew to fail.  Lindsey might not be able to live up to the iconic Maksyl (barf as I personally hated the Maksyl nonsense), but she would always be able to do a better approximation of Meryl than Drew was ever going to be able to do for Corbin.  They literally handed gangly not so great Drew a routine that an already trained jazz dancer had done.  Something that someone with years of performance experience had done.

Victoria honestly didn't get a great draw either.  I don't think Amber wast the most technical dancer, but she's a big performer through and through.  That woman can perform and turn it on, which is something that Victoria can't do.  Also after the disaster of her jive, was anybody expecting Vic to be able to do a good Charleston?  Don't get me wrong in that it ended up being so much better than I expected, though admittedly there is a big sliding scale there since I expected it to be awful.  However the flip side is Val just did his own routine and I don't think kept much of anything from Amber's routine.

But I guess if Lindsey got subtly hosed, I'd argue that Drew got not so subtly hosed.  There was a big old honking bus coming for him with that assignment.

[boyznkatz]

The iconic dance idea was stupid since most of those dances were hardly memorable in the first place. I guess Victoria was a lot like Amber in that both of them spent more time sitting than dancing yet they got 9s and 10s anyway. Drew and Frankie suck, but at least they try to dance.

[truthaboutluv]

29 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

The iconic dance idea was stupid since most of those dances were hardly memorable in the first place. I guess Victoria was a lot like Amber in that both of them spent more time sitting than dancing yet they got 9s and 10s anyway

Amber Riley spent more time sitting than dancing during her season? Oh right, she did one dance that had a 30 second table section during ten weeks of competition. I do so love the rewriting of history that happens with this show. Never mind that every single one of these people's dances are readily available on You Tube. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Andie1]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Drew and his brother are on a bunch of shows on HGTV, and their main show, Property Brothers, is the #1 show on that network.

And yet according to his memorable year week it was because he sucked at acting that he decided to team up with his twin for a hokey how to show.. he doesn't want to be stuck in that hinterland for actors forever. 

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

1. Lindsay and Jordan had the only dance that was originally from a pro who's still in the contest. Further, the only case in which the original pro was the same sex as the celeb here -- the end result being, the dance was executed well, so the judges can then make outright comparisons between Jordan and Mark, not a prior celeb. That's a very interesting comparison to establish.

Except it could have gone badly very easily because of the choreography in the original was certainly to play up the sexy Tina Turner image that Paige brought in spades to the dance floor.  If Lindsay made the same mistake of sticking close to the choreo the way Mark and Witney did, for their celebrities,  we might have had a very different outcome.  It would have meant highlighting Lindsay as Tina and Paige owns the Tina pout and hairography, not to mention the way her legs moved was not ballroom precise, but it was Tina cool.  Lindsay just tore off the clothes that would say Paige and Mark and went for the Gold lame that reminds us of other iconic jives in the show's history, and yet it's still highlighting Jordan because he was like a young James Brown in the gritty parts, but uber ballroom talented on the dancey parts.  

[ljenkins782]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:22 PM, LexieLily said:

Quote

Emma and Drew's lift has to be the scariest lift I've ever seen on the show. Please don't do that again.

I'm trying to think back from all the previous seasons the lifts that had the highest risk of dramatic injury, and I don't know that I can think of one. Maybe the one when in rehearsal Hines fell on Kym's neck and legit almost paralyzed her?

The Kym incident is the only thing scarier that I can recall, but that was a mistake. Was Drew and Emma's lift supposed to look like that or did he screw up and get very lucky that he didn't bash her head against the floor. Was it only because he's so tall that she survived that? She seemed a bit shaken up afterwards, so I'm guessing that things did not go to plan.

Quote

 

Kudos to Val, the things he said to Victoria and the way he was with her at the elimination was sweet. And that hair is a very good look on him. I think I would rather have had Victoria stay over Drew, but I was ok with either leaving.

That Jive with Jordan and Lindsay was great! Their Tango was forgettable. I liked Lindsey tonight, I do like her most of the time, I just like Jordan a little better. I kept thinking that Frankie's posture was off, but Bruno pointing out the shoulders, that was it. From now on, pros just need to tell their partner's "earrings!" for those arms and shoulders.

 

Val was a lot more likable this season than I've found him in the past. I liked Victoria as a person and if I were putting together a category of "story-driven" contestants over the years, I would say she danced better than most of them, but there's no way I wanted to see her in the finals with this bunch. Especially once Drew was called safe, I needed it to be Victoria going home. 

I noticed that she looked morose from the very start of the show, is there a way the contestants might be able to figure out ahead of time that they're going home? Because something seemed off with her almost every time the camera panned past her when she didn't know she was being filmed. Or maybe the spasms she's been getting were worrying her. 

Regarding the "iconic" dances, Jordan's was far and away the best, but I also like jive more than I like a lot of the other styles. I can't pull Lindsey and Mark's dance up in my memory and I just watched it last night, so that can't be a good sign. (ETA: just pulled it up on Youtube, it was a tango. Very well done, but again, tango isn't one of my favorite dances so it just wasn't as memorable). 

I did notice the multiple references to Lindsey's lack of dance training, they are clearly bugged by the insinuations that she is a ringer along with Jordan. But I did find it very strange that she says she tried out for various dance teams and didn't make the cut. Why would someone with zero dance training or experience be trying out for dance teams?  I just have a tough time believing that someone could dance as well as she does and pick up choreography like that if she is a true amateur.

I've really enjoyed her dances and Jordan's so I'm not bugged by any advantages they might have had coming in (and Jordan obviously came in leaps and bounds above everyone else), but I think I'd like to see Frankie win based on the general premise of the show. I'm glad that neither Jordan or Lindsey got the shocking boot treatment because I want to see them the whole way through, but I've really enjoyed Frankie's journey and his enthusiasm, plus he's pulled off some genuinely good routines despite his lack of training, so he would be a good winner, IMO. It wouldn't be like David Ross riding his Cubs World Series win to second place despite never really getting any better at dancing. I WILL be disappointed if Drew's apparently mobile voting bloc gets him through over any of other three. I like him fine and he's improved a lot too, but 4th place is good enough.

Quote

 

Frankie--He's definitely a performer. That was enjoyable to watch, even though it was a questionable song choice.

I'm getting really tired of people booing Len.

 

I really enjoyed Frankie's first dance and I actually thought the song and character were cute on him. He unfortunately lost his place in a noticeable spot (that they kindly replayed for us during the judge's comments), but it was entertaining and something I'd be more likely to rewatch than a duller dance done with more technical precision (like Lindsey and Mark's first dance). 

The booing of Len is old, as is the faux shocked response. I had to laugh at a recent episode where Len made a comment clearly intended to elicit the boos, but the audience didn't catch their cue and it left a big empty silent pause while Len was waiting for the boos. He even repeated himself, but they still weren't biting so he moved on, lol. 

[inandout]

24 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

And yet according to his memorable year week it was because he sucked at acting that he decided to team up with his twin for a hokey how to show.. he doesn't want to be stuck in that hinterland for actors forever. 

Drew (and Frankie) have had more success in their professions than someone like Jordan will ever experience.  Jordan is in for a rude awakening if he thinks doing ball room dancing will lead to some big career move.  Maybe he can hit up Drew or Frankie for a loan, when he's between jobs and needs to pay his rent, lol.

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, bealled said:

I still think Derek had an influence. He alone brings a lot of popularity to all of his pairings. He has his own fan base more so than anyone else on the show. I know my mom was often a viewer who rooted for Derek no matter what when he was on the show, and if he was in the finals she'd say she wanted Derek to win, not that she wanted X partner to win. I think one of the few times being Derek's partner worked against them was when he was paired with Shawn. I think that came down to them being overconfident and not following the rules, as well as viewers wanting a new winner since Shawn won her season and Melissa didn't (also fans wanted Tony to finally win). Otherwise Derek's partners tend to do extremely well/win or rank higher than normally would have (Marilu).

Corbin was paired with Karina who I just don't think is that popular of a female pro in comparison to Cheryl, Emma, or Lindsay (if these pros are popular, not sure of any insanely loved female pros the same way Derek is; Julianne probably would have been if she continued on the show). I know a lot of people online love Karina but I don't know how well the general public cares about her. I feel like they would view her a bit forgettable. Anyway, perhaps Amber would have still won if paired with someone else, but we will never know. A lot goes into making a certain contestant win though, and unless it is a completely non-competitive season, who you are paired with does make an impact.

I am one of the few people who will admit to watching "Famously Single" this summer and I will also admit that I expected to not like Karina, based solely on what I had seen on DWTS and US Weekly! I ended up rooting for her on FS in that I hoped she's be able to be happy and find a nice guy after filming ended.

Had I seen the "vulnerable/oh my gosh, I can relate to her" Karina several seasons ago on DWTS, I would have been a fan of hers and voted for her. 

I know we are only privy to a microscopic look into their lives each week, along with the editing that production wants us to see, not to mention the added drama/rumors of workplace relationships and how those politics play out with partner assignments. 

I think Karina was persona non grata after she and Maks broke up for the 282844th time. Total speculation on my end, but it wouldn't surprise me if his "I am a star" list of demands included Karina being partnered with ppl who wouldn't last two weeks. 

[spanana]

6 minutes ago, ifoundit said:

Drew (and Frankie) have had more success in their professions than someone like Jordan will ever experience.  Jordan is in for a rude awakening if he thinks doing ball room dancing will lead to some big career move.  Maybe he can hit up Drew or Frankie for a loan, when he's between jobs and needs to pay his rent, lol.

Yes, it's a shame that the only job poor Jordan could book was in that little Broadway musical that nobody has ever heard of before.  What was it called again?

I'm not dissing Drew or Frankie here.  Both have found career success in their various niches, but I'm not going to pretend that Jordan hasn't worked steadily for years.  In the past year alone he was in Grease Live, Hamilton, released music and was in various episodes of a Disney show.  That isn't remotely nothing.  Hamilton alone would be a dream come true for many.

[shoregirl]

17 minutes ago, ifoundit said:

Drew (and Frankie) have had more success in their professions than someone like Jordan will ever experience.  Jordan is in for a rude awakening if he thinks doing ball room dancing will lead to some big career move.  Maybe he can hit up Drew or Frankie for a loan, when he's between jobs and needs to pay his rent, lol.

There is no way for you to possibly know that Jordan will never have a huge career. He is 23 and his career is really only getting started bit he has been working steadily for years . In many reviews for Grease hewas listed as a standout.I don't think he's hurting for rent. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by shoregirl

[ljenkins782]

9 minutes ago, spanana said:

Quote

Drew (and Frankie) have had more success in their professions than someone like Jordan will ever experience.  Jordan is in for a rude awakening if he thinks doing ball room dancing will lead to some big career move.  Maybe he can hit up Drew or Frankie for a loan, when he's between jobs and needs to pay his rent, lol.

Yes, it's a shame that the only job poor Jordan could book was in that little Broadway musical that nobody has ever heard of before.  What was it called again?

I'm not dissing Drew or Frankie here.  Both have found career success in their various niches, but I'm not going to pretend that Jordan hasn't worked steadily for years.  In the past year alone he was in Grease Live, Hamilton, released music and was in various episodes of a Disney show.  That isn't remotely nothing.  Hamilton alone would be a dream come true for many.

Besides the list of pretty high-profile gigs Spanana just listed, I don't agree with the bolded because what the show is offering is exposure to an enormous audience. This show was originally for celebs past their prime (retired athletes, actors from old shows) or celebs who aren't known outside a certain niche (like soap actors or Disney show kids). Jordan is both too young and too currently successful to fit into the past their prime slot, but he probably qualifies as someone not known outside a niche audience. Weekly TV exposure isn't a bad thing for someone in his position. 

Julianne Hough took her time on this show and expanded it to movies and singing. Now, whether she was actually good at either one of vocations is another story, lol, but she was given the opportunities to do them and I doubt that would have happened for her without the exposure she got from the show. Yes, she was a pro, not a contestant, but the name recognition factor still applies.  

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I always believed that Amber was second only to Bill that season in viewer votes and Tristan sort of confirmed that on Afterbuzz

How would Tristan know ?

 

11 hours ago, Padma said:

Drew's likeable, but dance-wise, I thought he's regressing. His posture is worse and he looks clunky in some of the dances

The shoulders thing happens to a of the celebs. What I wonder about is, why doesn't the pro tell them? During the dance if they see it happen say "lower the shoulders" as they dance by. 

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

How would Tristan know ?

My guess is it was a combination of being on the show and observing stuff around them. I don't know that producers tell the couples the exact vote counts but I do know Derek, Mark and many other Pros have said that when you do the show enough, eventually you do get a sense of when you might be eliminated and how your celebrity is resonating with the general public. It's why Derek prepared Amy the night before the Season 18 finale that they were not going to win but that he was proud of everything she did. He also prepared Bethany the night they were eliminated and later admitted that he knew by Week 3 he was not going to win with her. 

[luvthepros]

Frankie certainly isn't the best dancer but I do love his rehearsal packages. He had me laughing out loud this past week when he was trying to get the skirt and the velcro to work. Talk about endearing......OMG. He was too funny. I enjoy Frankie more in the rehearsal packages than any other celeb in many seasons of this show. Keep it up Frankie.....being your dorky self has made the viewers fall in love with you!

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, Bridget said:

I am one of the few people who will admit to watching "Famously Single" this summer and I will also admit that I expected to not like Karina, based solely on what I had seen on DWTS and US Weekly! I ended up rooting for her on FS in that I hoped she's be able to be happy and find a nice guy after filming ended.

Had I seen the "vulnerable/oh my gosh, I can relate to her" Karina several seasons ago on DWTS, I would have been a fan of hers and voted for her. 

I know we are only privy to a microscopic look into their lives each week, along with the editing that production wants us to see, not to mention the added drama/rumors of workplace relationships and how those politics play out with partner assignments. 

I think Karina was persona non grata after she and Maks broke up for the 282844th time. Total speculation on my end, but it wouldn't surprise me if his "I am a star" list of demands included Karina being partnered with ppl who wouldn't last two weeks. 

Karina is actually very smart. She didn't take shit from Maks, and I heard she went to law school. I like her.

[MsJamieDornan]

14 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I heard she went to law school. I like her.

Smirnoff attended multiple schools, including Nerinx Hall High School in St. Louis and Christopher Columbus High School in The Bronx. She finally graduated from Bronx High School of Science. Smirnoff graduated from New York City's Fordham University with a double major in economics and information system programming.[

[bealled]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

My guess is it was a combination of being on the show and observing stuff around them. I don't know that producers tell the couples the exact vote counts but I do know Derek, Mark and many other Pros have said that when you do the show enough, eventually you do get a sense of when you might be eliminated and how your celebrity is resonating with the general public. It's why Derek prepared Amy the night before the Season 18 finale that they were not going to win but that he was proud of everything she did. He also prepared Bethany the night they were eliminated and later admitted that he knew by Week 3 he was not going to win with her. 

Considering many viewers can predict who will win as the season progresses, I am not surprised the pros get a sense of that too. I feel like they could probably get a sense from production as well and how the couple is portrayed. Last season I felt strongly Rashad was going to win once we had gotten to the end. I think a lot thought David may come in second too, although it was still surprising to see actually happen. People were actively predicting Simone would go home the week she did. I feel like there are cues and hints throughout pointing to who is popular and who is going home. Plus we all notice that many celebs get better scores the night they are eliminated and a lot of times those scores are not deserved. I feel like I always get a strong sense generally of who is going to win by the end. I think the only time I recall truly being surprised was when Melissa won All Stars. There are times when I think maybe Paige will beat Nyle or maybe James will outdo Laurie, but it still generally turns out the way we expect.

[realdancemom]

4 hours ago, spanana said:

I think there is a point to be made here and I do think the show is giving Jordan a boost, but I think if any of the 5 remaining were set up to fail with the so-called assigned "iconic" dances it was Drew.  Giving Drew a Corbin routine, especially in a genre outside of ballroom, was made for Drew to fail.  Lindsey might not be able to live up to the iconic Maksyl (barf as I personally hated the Maksyl nonsense), but she would always be able to do a better approximation of Meryl than Drew was ever going to be able to do for Corbin.  They literally handed gangly not so great Drew a routine that an already trained jazz dancer had done.  Something that someone with years of performance experience had done.

Victoria honestly didn't get a great draw either.  I don't think Amber wast the most technical dancer, but she's a big performer through and through.  That woman can perform and turn it on, which is something that Victoria can't do.  Also after the disaster of her jive, was anybody expecting Vic to be able to do a good Charleston?  Don't get me wrong in that it ended up being so much better than I expected, though admittedly there is a big sliding scale there since I expected it to be awful.  However the flip side is Val just did his own routine and I don't think kept much of anything from Amber's routine.

But I guess if Lindsey got subtly hosed, I'd argue that Drew got not so subtly hosed.  There was a big old honking bus coming for him with that assignment.

So far, I've only watched Drew's, Jordan's, and Lindsey's iconic dances.  I honestly don't think Drew was at a disadvantage because I don't think anybody expected Drew to dance as well as Corbin.  As somebody else stated, Drew is not in the finals because of his dancing.   He was just lucky that the jazz dance was not a fast one.  I think everyone including Emma and Drew knew that he was never going to match Corbin's extensions or finesse.  This was also a stylized Jazz which Corbin could capture the nuances needed for it but Drew can't.  The only thing that I liked about it was that crazy lift.  I did wonder why Emma didn't use a mat or helmet during their practice though.  This was a very risky move and I'm just glad that Emma is fine.  What happened to Kym during Hines' season is something that you don't want to happen to any of the pros or stars.

Didn't watch Victoria's dance but I do agree that Amber had a magnetic performance quality.  That is something that Victoria has lacked all season which is why I can understand why people thought she was forgettable.  I admire Victoria's attitude on life and never giving up.  She should be proud of what she accomplished on the show. 

Mark made weird choices on this show.  I thought the contemporary looked better without all the garbage being thrown around.  I guess it was supposed to represent the garbage that people can throw at you even through words.  But it made the dance look messy.  Lindsey did fine with it though.  She threw herself into the character and she does have nice flexibility which I knew Mark would use.  Then in their tango, I agree with those that said that wearing black clothing and having a black background made things very difficult to see.  Their tango was nice but I previously mentioned that they would have a tough time recreating the sexual chemistry of Maks and Meryl.  Also, of course, we can't help compare Meryl's technique with Lindsey's because they did show clips before each dace.  Lindsey did o.k. but yes, she wasn't going to compete with Meryl's technique.  I also miss the speed of the original.  However, since the turns were a little awkward, making them faster would not have been a good idea.

I agree with the judges that Jordan and Lindsey was better than the original.  That doesn't mean that I thought they had an easier assignment than the others.  I didn't like the iconic dance idea because I always thought it wasn't fair to be compared to the original that was made for that couple.  I loved Paige/Mark's jive so it would be hard to outdo them.  Paige was a ringer too since she had the training to make dances look good.  I could probably argue that she had more dance training than Jordan.  Jordan and Lindsey kept the speed.  But it was performed better and they even added more tricks and flashy dance moves.  I think in the original, only Paige did a barrel roll but both Lindsey and Jordan did it.  Anyway, I really enjoyed it.  As for their AT, I am reminded of when SYTYCD had their kid season.  Paul and Ruby had to do an AT.  Of course, since Ruby was only 13, they couldn't do a sexy AT.    Leonardo and Miriam created a beautiful AT where Paul played the older brother teaching his younger sister the tradition of AT.  That's how I saw Jordan's version.  I prefer sexy traditional ATs, but that would have been weird to do considering that they were paying tribute to him being a good big brother.  Another reason not to have themes since they don't make sense sometimes.

Edited November 15, 2017 by realdancemom

[Toonces464]

7 hours ago, bealled said:

Lindsey got the dance of one of the most popular pairings on the entire show, and probably the best female to ever be on the show, and a couple that had a lot of sexual chemistry.

"Sexual chemistry" is subjective. I thought Maks and Meryl had the sexual chemistry of a couple of toads because to me she looked like his teenage daughter. But Meryl had a lot of fans who were dying for her to hook up with someone and Maks is a master at playing a showmance so they were able to sell it, and then both kept playing it for publicity long after their season was over. So from that perspective I agree Lindsey and Mark were never going to be able to compete with that nonsense.

[friendperidot]

lovethepros, thank you for that link. I didn't care for either Corky or Shirley on their seasons, but they have a lot of talent and chemistry with each other. And ooh, boy, you can see where Mark gets his talent. The announcer said they had been married about 4 years and had a baby boy, well that baby boy has sure grown up and into a talented dancer. I don't always care for him, but I have always seen his talent.

[spanana]

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

 I didn't like the iconic dance idea because I always thought it wasn't fair to be compared to the original that was made for that couple. 

I do agree with this and also to take it further from fairness perspective, who is actively judging if what the celeb/pro does is an acceptable inspiration or recreation?  Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there was anything from Amber's routine in Victoria's dance.  It was basically a Charleston danced to the same music and I understand it if the dance had to be suited to Victoria, but all that means is that you are asking a couple to dance the same dance style to the same song.   Anybody could say they were inspired by a dance and then do completely different choreography.   So which couples are being held to needing to recreate actual choreography and which ones are free to do whatever they want since nobody expects they will live up to the original anyway?

Though I do very much agree that choreography is specifically created for a certain celeb/pairing and the same things are not going to look good on same people.  This is even true of the pros.  Look how much better the split move looked on Julianne than it did on Witney, because Witney doesn't have Jules flexibility.

[crossover]

9 hours ago, bealled said:

I just think if Amber was paired with a different pro partner, I don't think she would have beaten Corbin. Derek is a great choreographer and can often bring out the best in his partners. Amber is a fun personality, but I just have a hard time seeing her win if paired with a different pro. I know Bindi and Rumer were still well known names prior to being cast, and I viewed them as front runners before their season started. I think people just weren't sure prior to the show started because they didn't know if they could dance or not (I don't think either of them had dance experience?).

Bindi's dad and Rumer parents are well known.  Thats why TPTB kept bringing up/showing Bindi's dad and showing Rumer parents in the audience.

Edited November 15, 2017 by crossover

[lavenderblue]

7 hours ago, spanana said:

But I guess if Lindsey got subtly hosed, I'd argue that Drew got not so subtly hosed.  There was a big old honking bus coming for him with that assignment.

Definitely, re: Drew (and also requiring Emma to rejigger a trio into a duet, though she managed well by relying on the troupe). The whole night was a mess for him, though, so it's more of the macro "We're not letting you David Ross this thing!" maneuvering than the subtler "try to set up one/two as we hope" type. ;)

[luvthepros]

2 hours ago, friendperidot said:

lovethepros, thank you for that link. I didn't care for either Corky or Shirley on their seasons, but they have a lot of talent and chemistry with each other. And ooh, boy, you can see where Mark gets his talent. The announcer said they had been married about 4 years and had a baby boy, well that baby boy has sure grown up and into a talented dancer. I don't always care for him, but I have always seen his talent.

You're welcome. I know Corky has been on a few seasons of DWTS, teamed with the older women, but I don't think Shirley has done this show.

[Andiethewestie]

12 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I really don't care about her training one way or the other. She really hasn't wowed me the last couple of weeks. Maybe it's her injury. I think at this point it's Jordan's to lose. I didn't think he would win earlier, but I think so now.

I agree so, I wonder what Mark has in reserve. I wonder if he going to bring in help for the freestyle like he did with Sadie.  They need an injection of something and maybe bringing back Misha Gabriel and Anze Skrube who did the Super Mario Freestyle might get them back to where they were before her injury on an upward trend, and the touring have been taking its toll.  Anze also does Lindsey's tours so he would be very helpful because he knows how her body moves and what looks good on her.  His choreography reel is impressive, he even co-choreographed Amber Riley's freestyle so he knows how to win.   

Edited November 16, 2017 by Andiethewestie

[howmanywords]

10 hours ago, ifoundit said:

Drew (and Frankie) have had more success in their professions than someone like Jordan will ever experience.  Jordan is in for a rude awakening if he thinks doing ball room dancing will lead to some big career move.  Maybe he can hit up Drew or Frankie for a loan, when he's between jobs and needs to pay his rent, lol.

Jordan has multiple endorsement deals happening right now including a big one with Nintendo. I suspect he's nowhere close to struggling to pay his rent. Considering he has a record deal and is at the beginning of a R&B SINGING career why would he assume ballroom dancing would help with that?

[tessaforever]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:41 PM, luvthepros said:

Lindsey does have dance experience. From what I have learned of her, she is self taught for her dancing while playing violin and she did have 3 hours of training from Derek for her video Argentine Tango. Lindsey never had dance lessons. From what I can see, Lindsey is a natural with wonderful musicality. She also has a great work ethic which is half the battle on this show. I'm a Lindsey fan but.....I want Jordan to win at this point. He is a super ringer but he just brought it home with that Jive.

 

On 11/14/2017 at 8:40 PM, luvthepros said:

Lindsey has great musicality, she's young with healthy knees and a really flexible back. Throw in three hours of intense training with Derek Hough for her video and the end result is what we are seeing on the show. Lindsay is a natural and that helps too.

I'm quoting you twice! Lol! Anyway, you are making a great point that often gets lost in the ringer/not ringer debate. And that's natural talent. Quite a few winners on this show (Kellie and Rashad spring to mind as one example for each gender) have been non-dancers but with a lot of natural talent. That can include performance ability, flexibility, athleticism, etc. Perhaps some of these naturally talented winners would have been dancers if they had started dance as young kids. So they aren't ringers but they still have an advantage over the "average" contestant on this show. I love when this show finds celebs with previously untapped dance ability. It seems like Lindsey Stirling falls into this category, which may be why some see her as a ringer - they assume that to be as good as she is, she must have had dance training, when in reality, she's simply extremely naturally gifted towards dance?

[friendperidot]

lovethepros, I looked it up and couldn't find Shirley as a pro on the show, and Corky was only a pro once. I swear I thought he had been a contestant twice, maybe he substituted for someone for one dance? And I just remember Shirley on for some reason, maybe she was just dancing or was an extra coach. After 25 seasons, it's hard to remember. 

[littlecowgirl93]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:01 AM, crossover said:

Agree.  It is a recreation not a redo.  One of the things they grappled with was the speed of Lindsey's turns vs Meryl's?  I thought Mark's choreography feel was different for that portion.  Mark/Lindsey had a different kind of sexual chemistry going on.  She was more of a shy (subtle turns, cuddly, long term) willing girl.  Meryl was more of a fast (fast turns, a whirlwind, one-nighter) let's get it on girl.  If you wanted the Meryl/Maks tango feel, then I can see why you would be a little disappointed in Mark/Lindsey's.  But my tin foil says TPTB wanted something to ping her with, but why?  Do they not want her in the F3?  Or are they hoping her fanbase will energize and uproot Jordan?

Edited to change Mark/Paige to Mark/Lindsey. 

I agree, I think she is being set up to fail, and I will be pretty mad if she doesn’t at least come in second. No way are Drew or Frankie better than her. Not only did she get an iconic dance that she was in no way going to match up to because she has a totally different style from Meryl, but she has also been, I think, underscored. Not just in terms of actually being underscored, but in terms of the judges’ comments not matching their scores. For example, on Disney Night, Carrie Ann said she had one of the best holds she had seen and praised her dance, but gave her a 9. Then, Len proceeded to praise her this week, saying that it was a terrific dance, but also gave her a 9. It’s one thing to do this, but the thing is they never give her constructive criticism, such as things to improve on. Which is even more annoying because how are you supposed to improve if no one tells you what you need to improve on? (I’m sure Mark is helping her to improve). Or rather, how are you supposed to please the judges when you don’t know what they want? So yes, I think she has been set up, which as annoying as it is, is just the reality of reality tv. Here’s hoping she’ll surprise us and win!

[doLLish]

10 hours ago, luvthepros said:

You're welcome. I know Corky has been on a few seasons of DWTS, teamed with the older women, but I don't think Shirley has done this show.

I liked when they paired older contestants with older pros. It made a lot more sense.

[luvthepros]

3 hours ago, friendperidot said:

lovethepros, I looked it up and couldn't find Shirley as a pro on the show, and Corky was only a pro once. I swear I thought he had been a contestant twice, maybe he substituted for someone for one dance? And I just remember Shirley on for some reason, maybe she was just dancing or was an extra coach. After 25 seasons, it's hard to remember. 

Corky was a pro twice on the show. He partnered Cloris Leachman and Florence Henderson.

[crowceilidh]

Shirley's a judge on at least one of the international versions, isn't she?  I thought Australia at one point and didn't she replace Len as head judge in Britain now?

[majormama]

9 hours ago, friendperidot said:

lovethepros, I looked it up and couldn't find Shirley as a pro on the show, and Corky was only a pro once. I swear I thought he had been a contestant twice, maybe he substituted for someone for one dance? And I just remember Shirley on for some reason, maybe she was just dancing or was an extra coach. After 25 seasons, it's hard to remember. 

Corky did compete twice, in Season 7 with Cloris Leachman and in Season 11 with Florence Henderson.

I do seem to remember Shirley on, not as a pro but maybe a guest judge? I think she's come in to help Mark teach some of his celebs, too. 

 

ETA: Oops, looks like lovethepros beat me to it. Sorry for the repeat!

Edited November 16, 2017 by majormama

[boyznkatz]

Yes Shirley was a guest judge.

[realdancemom]

When Shirley comes to visit, she does visit Mark and his contestant.  I remember watching footage where she was helping Mark's contestant.  She helped Sadie but she's help others too.

In my previous post, I forgot to mention that as a whole I like Jordan and Lindsay's jive better than Mark and Paige.  However, I do like how Paige performed it better than Lindsay.  She did the duck lips and sexy vibe.  Lindsay has a more fun wholesome vibe.  The revolving door was one of the highlights of Mark and Paige's jive.  Jordan and Lindsay didn't quite duplicate that move.  I'm sure Corky and Shirley taught Mark that move when he was a kid.   

I also finally got to see Frankie's and Victoria's iconic dances.  I think that was Victoria's best dance.  She captured the fun feel and her feet did the intricate Charleston moves.  She didn't look down either.  I can't blame her for looking down before.  It's a habit since she can't feel her legs and feet.  Val and Tom were wonderful with her when she was eliminated.  She should be proud.

Agree with the judges on Frankie and his shaping of movement.  He gets the choreography but doesn't extend or shape like he should.  That's why I don't think he dances like Alfonso at all.  In his trio last week, he did the movements but he cut them short while Alfonso extends.  Of course, it's because Alfonso has training while Frankie doesn't.  I see comments on Witney not doing the split move.  To me, it looked like she was in a full split.  Maybe, her back leg was bent but I couldn't see it because of her skirt.