S02.E08: Number One

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Only they didn't see it as a break down, but a marvelous speech full of humility and modesty. 

I can buy that some of the in the audience would see it that way - maybe most of them. But not all of them.

He didn't just say that the other honorees were more deserving than him. He practically screamed "I hate myself!" And he looked a total mess.

It wouldn't have just been screaming fan girls in the audience. I'm sure there would be some high school boys who were thoroughly irritated that "The Manny" was driving all the girls around them wild.

And all it would take is one of them to put it on Youtube.

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm a boomer, and certainly like hearing "my" music. However, I think when you're telling a story set in different times, the music should be spot on for the time. So I agree that the music in the 90's should be 90's music. Sometimes the perfect song is an older one that resonates with the story - but for the most part, I think they should be really careful to, at a minimum, play the music appropriate for the character(s) who are the focus of the story.

I'm about 5 years younger than the Big 3, and I was on the verge of turning 12 in the fall of 1997. My sisters are pretty close to the Big 3's age. Therefore, I remember 1997 music pretty well- both the boyband pop stuff that I listened to, and the "cool" stuff that my sisters listened to, like TuPac, FIona Apple, the Foo Fighters, Sublime, etc etc. They clearly know what music was popular then, as Teen Kate referenced Weezer, and the Toadies played in one episode. It's just really jarring, to me, for a scene that has people dressed like it's a 1997 high school, but they're playing 70's rock. (Not even the "classic" stuff that a teen in 1997 might have listened to like Queen or Led Zeppelin, but obscure late 70's rock.)

Although wasn't flannel basically on its way out in 1997? The grunge look was falling out in favor and the preppy Abercrombie and Fitch look was coming in.

Edited November 16, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Jax7917]

23 hours ago, AmandaPanda said:

When that teenage girl came over to Kevin, I was so paranoid he was going to sleep with her. Thank god he slept with the doctor instead.

And all of Kevin's breakdowns tonight were the most actor-y actor scenes I've ever seen. They all just felt so fake to me. 

Yeah. The makeup department did a really good job making Kevin look strung out on drugs , but his acting doesn't really do it for me . He's not bad , he's just not great 

[MelGoLightly]

Hey, member last week when a few of us said we were sick of sweaty, druggy Kevin? We should have knocked on wood or something. That was a solid 60 minute druggy sweaty Kevin fest. 

Two things struck me: 1) How lucky those of us who are just absolute jerks to our parents as teenagers are to have not lost them suddenly. That would be so traumatizing to grow up with that on one's shoulders. and 2) I knew In my gut that Kate would lose that baby. I said out loud "I KNEW IT" as soon as Randall told Kevin. I have no explanation as to why. 

 

This darn show. It's touching on some of the current themes of my own life - and I'm sure many others' which is why it's so powerful - and whew is it gutting sometimes. I lost a parent and had a miscarriage after an unexpected but very exciting and welcomed pregnancy in the past 2 years. I was born within a month of when the Big 3 were, so I guess these are themes that are common for this age. But whew. 

[chaifan]

Eh, I didn't think this episode was really all that great.  First, I am tired of the personal tragedy tropes that just seem to come straight out of a "how to write a dramatic show" playbook.  Oh, look, someone gets hurt and prescribed drugs and now they're addicted.  Shocker!  Just like the semi-unlikeable character getting pregnant -in the midst of planning a wedding - and then miscarrying.  (And also, she's morbidly obese and past a certain age, so even in real life would be an incredibly high risk pregnancy.)  I'm sorry, but those are just so predictable story lines, it just takes me out of the rest of the show. 

I also agree with the other posters that find it wholly unbelievable that no one, save for Martina the housekeeper, even considered that Kevin was totally strung out, and also that not one kid in the audience put that mess of an acceptance speech on you tube within 2 minutes of it occurring.  And my thought on Martina is that as a housekeeper in a high end hotel she's probably seen/cleaned up after her share of wasted celebrities, so this wouldn't have even phased her.  Actually, one part of the show I really enjoyed was the Kevin/Martina back and forth.  She called him on his shit while still staying somewhat professional.  Maybe he can hire her as his personal assistant to keep his butt in line.

I just think so much of this story line is lazy writing.  It's only season 2, and especially with such a great first season I expect better.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Bliss said:

I noticed the same thing... when the guy first comes out, I think the house number is #1646 and then in the next frame with the guy it's #1920 - I may have the numbers wrong, but it was something like that. Same house. Same guy. Different numbers. WHY??? Are they playing with our brains? If so, please stop.

Also, Kevin was wearing his chain on the football field - you can just barely see it in one frame. (Someone mentioned in an earlier post that perhaps he lost it at the field... I think the she-vil Charlotte has it.)

Sounds like a continuity error. Someone just didn't pay attention. I didn't notice it, but if it's that different, I can't imagine there'd be some logical explanation. 

[dcubed]

15 hours ago, GSMHvisitor said:

Given that it's now clear that Kevin did not have a previous history with addiction, the progress of his addiction definitely happened too fast.

I don’t want to go on OT here but the speed of his addiction is very real to me.  I am an adult child of an alcoholic and if you look at my family tree, about 50% or more going back to both sets of grandparents were alcoholics.  I was the good kid; I didn’t drink or do drugs and throughout my adult life was a casual wine drinker.  By 41, I had only been drunk twice in my life.  At 41, I had major turmoil in my life.   One day I came home from work and opened a bottle of wine while preparing dinner.  I had never had a drink by myself.  Within one month, I was opening a bottle for me, hiding it, and then opening a bottle in front of my husband for us so he couldn’t see how much I was drinking.  In two months, I was a daily drinker.  In three months I had my first morning shakes after switching to rum and Diet Coke in the previous two weeks.  In two years, I was in rehab.  I think I was always an alcoholic. I just didn’t feed the disease.  But when I did, it was like a light switch turned on and it was broken open.  Sadly, it took me a total of almost six years to get sober, laying a path of destruction behind me.  Part of the reason it took so long is because I didn’t have a history and believed if I could get the turmoil in my life under control, I could get the drinking under control.  Alas, I was a pickle and could not go back to being a cucumber again.  Opioids  are even easier to get adddicted to; for some, it’s nearly immediate, thus the opioid addiction epidemic we are seeing in this country today.  Every path is different.  Addiction is a strange bird and what we know about it compared to its complexity barely fits on the head of a pin.  I find his story heartbreakingly believable and all too familiar down to the scene in the lawn where he’s crying and saying “I’m in so much pain.  Someone help me.”  That could have been written about my life some 14 years ago.  It broke my heart watching it.

[sandyskyblue]

11 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I don’t want to go on OT here but the speed of his addiction is very real to me.  I am an adult child of an alcoholic and if you look at my family tree, about 50% or more going back to both sets of grandparents were alcoholics.  I was the good kid; I didn’t drink or do drugs and throughout my adult life was a casual wine drinker.  By 41, I had only been drunk twice in my life.  At 41, I had major turmoil in my life.   One day I came home from work and opened a bottle of wine while preparing dinner.  I had never had a drink by myself.  Within one month, I was opening a bottle for me, hiding it, and then opening a bottle in front of my husband for us so he couldn’t see how much I was drinking.  In two months, I was a daily drinker.  In three months I had my first morning shakes after switching to rum and Diet Coke in the previous two weeks.  In two years, I was in rehab.  I think I was always an alcoholic. I just didn’t feed the disease.  But when I did, it was like a light switch turned on and it was broken open.  Sadly, it took me a total of almost six years to get sober, laying a path of destruction behind me.  Part of the reason it took so long is because I didn’t have a history and believed if I could get the turmoil in my life under control, I could get the drinking under control.  Alas, I was a pickle and could not go back to being a cucumber again.  Opioids  are even easier to get adddicted to; for some, it’s nearly immediate, thus the opioid addiction epidemic we are seeing in this country today.  Every path is different.  Addiction is a strange bird and what we know about it compared to its complexity barely fits on the head of a pin.  I find his story heartbreakingly believable and all too familiar down to the scene in the lawn where he’s crying and saying “I’m in so much pain.  Someone help me.”  That could have been written about my life some 14 years ago.  It broke my heart watching it.

Dcubed, thank you so much for sharing your story, your observation that you were always an alcoholic, but hadn't fed it till you had major turmoil in your life makes a lot of sense...you are so right about how little is really known and understood about addiction...my brother-in-law was a drug addict and my husband tried to help him as much as he could for years...sadly, my husband found him one day after not hearing from him for a few days, he had OD'ed...good for you for getting sober, I wish you all the best, thank you again...

[momma2seven]

I wonder if nobody noticing strung out Kevin is just going along with the whole theme that started in the pool episode...Kate's getting picked on, Randall needs black people, where's Kevin? Oh yeah he's dead. In current time it's Kate's pregnant/miscarried, Randall is recovering from a breakdown/has a foster kid, where's Kevin... Which then makes me wonder if that plays into the fire....remember, Randall and Kate's bedrooms are upstairs,Kevin is in the basement, the fuse box is at the bottom of the stairs. Seems reasonable for Jack to get Randall and Kate out first since their pathway out would get blocked first and all he'd have to do is tell up the stairs to them..but wait...where's Kevin? Except since Kate and Kevin are inseparable and he's dating Kate's best friend, she knew he'd snuck out but didn't get a chance to tell Jack before he went running back in. Kate feels like it's her fault and Kevin feels like no matter what he does he's going to let someone down...setting himself up for failure in everything because he sabotages himself. All he was trying to do was have a fun night out with his girlfriend and it killed his dad. All he was trying to do was have a fabulous football game and it ruined his chance at a future career. By the time he's married to Sophie and finding success he's got himself convinced that anything good that happens to him is going to end badly for himself or someone he loves...so he cheats on Sophie to "free" her, has his blow up on the Manny set, screws things up with the play and the producer woman...and on and on. Kevin can't get out of his own way because he thinks he doesn't deserve anything good and has himself convinced that nobody cares anyway. And if Jack did die tying to save Kevin who wasn't even home well that just plays into the whole nobody notices Kevin thing as well as the anger Kevin has about his dad dying...great dad Jack didn't even notice his kid snuck out and got killed because of it.

(Assuming at if this is how Jack's death plays out...which it may not...in which case I've spent entirely too much time thinking about this!)

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Although wasn't flannel basically on its way out in 1997? The grunge look was falling out in favor and the preppy Abercrombie and Fitch look was coming in.

For a great many people - and the entire city of Seattle, WA - the grunge look never went out of style.

[kittyglitter]

1 hour ago, momma2seven said:

I wonder if nobody noticing strung out Kevin is just going along with the whole theme that started in the pool episode...Kate's getting picked on, Randall needs black people, where's Kevin? Oh yeah he's dead. In current time it's Kate's pregnant/miscarried, Randall is recovering from a breakdown/has a foster kid, where's Kevin... Which then makes me wonder if that plays into the fire....remember, Randall and Kate's bedrooms are upstairs,Kevin is in the basement, the fuse box is at the bottom of the stairs. Seems reasonable for Jack to get Randall and Kate out first since their pathway out would get blocked first and all he'd have to do is tell up the stairs to them..but wait...where's Kevin? Except since Kate and Kevin are inseparable and he's dating Kate's best friend, she knew he'd snuck out but didn't get a chance to tell Jack before he went running back in. Kate feels like it's her fault and Kevin feels like no matter what he does he's going to let someone down...setting himself up for failure in everything because he sabotages himself. All he was trying to do was have a fun night out with his girlfriend and it killed his dad. All he was trying to do was have a fabulous football game and it ruined his chance at a future career. By the time he's married to Sophie and finding success he's got himself convinced that anything good that happens to him is going to end badly for himself or someone he loves...so he cheats on Sophie to "free" her, has his blow up on the Manny set, screws things up with the play and the producer woman...and on and on. Kevin can't get out of his own way because he thinks he doesn't deserve anything good and has himself convinced that nobody cares anyway. And if Jack did die tying to save Kevin who wasn't even home well that just plays into the whole nobody notices Kevin thing as well as the anger Kevin has about his dad dying...great dad Jack didn't even notice his kid snuck out and got killed because of it.

(Assuming at if this is how Jack's death plays out...which it may not...in which case I've spent entirely too much time thinking about this!)

From the flashbacks I've been able to piece together, it seems Kevin was making out with Sophie somewhere and not at home for the fire. If this is what happened (and who knows, with this silly show), it would still be a "Where's Kevin" scenario...maybe he snuck out of the house and Jack went back in to go find him, thinking he was there? 

Edited November 16, 2017 by kittyglitter
Autocorrect gets it totes wrong sometimes

[yorklee2]

17 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I have to admit, this episode was one big eye roll for me and it really didn't succeed it making me feel anything other than less interest in Kevin.  That being said, a couple of thoughts:

I thought that Justin Hartley gave a better performance than I would have expected out of him.  I wouldn't call it groundbreaking or emmy-worthy or anything like that, but it was an improvement over how he has performed in this show in the past.  

Was I the only one who had a problem with the whole "Kevin is #1 because he was born first!"  First of all, what a horrible thing to do--to number one of your kids as #1 (meaning the other kids would always be #2 and #3).   Secondly, it isn't even true as Randall was actually born earlier than Kevin and Kate.

The scrip pad was ridiculous.  Even if Kevin had tried to write a prescription for himself, it wouldn't have flown.  As someone upthread, those sorts of pads aren't even used for narcotics (heck, our doctors don't even use those pads at all anymore--they email in prescriptions!).  Secondly, there is a specific "language" to prescriptions that I'm sure makes sense to doctors and pharmacists, but I'm not sure anyone who hasn't been to medical or pharmaceutical school would be able to make heads or tails out of it.  So, if Kevin tried to write his on Rx, a pharmacist would have caught it.

I have thoughts--most likely unpopular thoughts--about Kate having a miscarriage, which I'll save until next week...other than to say I saw that coming a mile away.

Regarding the prescription pad and the specific language. While most people don't understand it, in the medical field you don't have to be a doctor or pharmacist to understand it. Nurses certainly would and a lot of occupations on the wider spectrum of the health field. I worked for years in the medical office as a patient representative or in lay terms a office clerk and I was taught how to read a script as part of my training. QD is once a day, BID is twice a day, TID is three times a day etc. Or a horizonal line with three vertical lines underneath it would be three times a day and so forth. Which is why I found the scene where Kevin is waiting in line and looks down at the script a little farfetched. It looked like it had been written by a professional and we haven't been shown anything that would make us viewers think he would any idea how to do that. People who have lived the drug lifestyle for awhile may be able to do it. Especially if they know unscrupulous people in the health field but Kevin is a fairly new addict so that scene didn't ring true to me. Also as others have said most doctors today don't even hand write scripts anymore. It's all done electronically or in the case of narcotics it would be printed out on special paper and hand delivered to the pharmacy. So when Kevin finds the pad in Charlotte's drawer my first thought was...why would she keep a prescription pad at home? As others have said he would most definitely have been caught if he had tried to fill that.

Edited November 16, 2017 by yorklee2

[debraran]

I think a show on just one kid and it's pretty much all dark, isn't really a glimpse into their lives. And I ask again, where is the levity the producer promised in season 2?? Quote: “It’s going to be a heavy ride, filled with equal parts comedy and sadness. And some really heavy, devastating stuff,” Fogelman said.  Something tells me Kate's show next week will not be cherry. If Kevin visits her and she still doesn't notice something is wrong with her twin, it will get harder to believe.

Justin gave a good performance but it was too much for one show, he was going through withdrawal the entire show so it seemed overdone although it was over weeks. If no one felt bad he broke his leg,  he lost his scholarship, he lost his dad's necklace too and almost committed a felony!  The only thing he said that was new was he reminded us that he was "better" when his dad died, so again i wonder if he got hurt later or he died later. Producer always said "not directly" caused by fire but it was the fire that caused his death.  I thought it was funny the way they hid the burnt out house, which made me wonder if the numbers were a mistake or just to show the home changed numbers later. They had the shell at a different set and used code words for "fire" until it was done. A bit much but they didn't want leaks.

Mandy said she hoped the fans weren't getting caught up in how Jack dies instead of catching other nuances about the characters but I think it has been written that way. They made it a clue game.  She said, "One thing that I won’t leave hanging in mystery: This clue won’t prove to be a bust or a cop-out. “Nobody’s pulling the rug out from anybody,” she says; “This [sequence contains] the reason that he passed away. But how the fire started, were they in the house? All of that remains to be seen and will be answered slowly as the season trickles along.” (She advises you to start thinking about why Rebecca is wearing a Steelers jersey, but is tight-lipped on why the possessions in the back seat — seemingly Jack’s? — were not burned.)

Just don't make is suicide. That darkness would be too much, I can't see it going there yet, the hero is more their style, but when you are struggling with staying sober, a fire is a big stress.

In the episode "Jack Pearson's Son," Toby asks Kate to discuss Jack's death with him, because while he knows how he died, he doesn't know the specifics. Kate completely clams up, even stating that she can't "get the words out." So I guess Toby knows but not exactly.  I knew someone who had their dad commit suicide and she couldn't say it for years.

[Sweet-tea]

On 11/14/2017 at 9:17 PM, Conotocarious said:

I thought Justin Hartley was wonderful this episode. His desperation on the lawn at the end really got me. 

This was his best moment, better than the football field scene IMO.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Mandy said she hoped the fans weren't getting caught up in how Jack dies instead of catching other nuances about the characters but I think it has been written that way. They made it a clue game.  She said, "One thing that I won’t leave hanging in mystery: This clue won’t prove to be a bust or a cop-out. “Nobody’s pulling the rug out from anybody,” she says; “This [sequence contains] the reason that he passed away. But how the fire started, were they in the house? All of that remains to be seen and will be answered slowly as the season trickles along.” (She advises you to start thinking about why Rebecca is wearing a Steelers jersey, but is tight-lipped on why the possessions in the back seat — seemingly Jack’s? — were not burned.)

This show could be an interesting mystery, but the writers also have to make sure their audience still cares about the characters, and based on a lot of comments not only in the Unpopular Opinions thread but in the episode threads, it seems like a lot of viewers are falling away from caring (myself included).

I bolded the line above because we're being asked to look at small clues as keys to solving the mystery of Jack's death.  But what gets in the way for me are the things that are started and dropped (Kate's off/on singing career, the number of bedrooms in Randall's house, Beth possibly being pregnant in season one) or errors in continuity (the house address as people mentioned above) and especially for me, the constant wondering of how these people get to where they're going while living across the country from each other.  You could say that I'm focusing on the wrong things, but I feel like at least once per episode, I find myself wondering, how did he/she get there?  Don't they live in LA/Pittsburgh/etc?

For example, this past episode...I thought I saw the entire family, minus Kevin, getting ready to drive to a college visit for Randall.  It appeared to me that they were all saying that they weren't going to make it to Kevin's football game.  Then comes the game...and Rebecca and Kate were there.  So obviously only Jack and Randall went on the college visit, but I swear it looked like all four of them were walking out the door, leaving Kevin behind.  Maybe that's on me for not paying close enough attention...but it's happened more times than I can count.  I feel like the logistics of this show have always been very muddy.

So when we're asked to look for clues, it's hard to know what is an actual clue and what's just lazy writing/editing.  And I don't want to invest time looking for precious clues that are likely to mean nothing because the writers feel like they are so much smarter than their viewers.

Edited November 16, 2017 by laurakaye

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Regarding the prescription pad and the specific language. While most people don't understand it, in the medical field you don't have to be a doctor or pharmacist to understand it. Nurses certainly would and a lot of occupations on the wider spectrum of the health field. I worked for years in the medical office as a patient representative or in lay terms a office clerk and I was taught how to read a script as part of my training. QD is once a day, BID is twice a day, TID is three times a day etc. Or a vertical line with three horizontal lines underneath it would be three times a day and so forth. Which is why I found the scene where Kevin is waiting in line and looks down at the script a little farfetched. It looked like it had been written by a professional and we haven't been shown anything that would make us viewers think he would any idea how to do that. People who have lived the drug lifestyle for awhile may be able to do it. Especially if they know unscrupulous people in the health field but Kevin is a fairly new addict so that scene didn't ring true to me. Also as others have said most doctors today don't even hand write scripts anymore. It's all done electronically or in the case of narcotics it would be printed out on special paper and hand delivered to the pharmacy. So when Kevin finds the pad in Charlotte's drawer my first thought was...why would she keep a prescription pad at home? As others have said he would most definitely have been caught if he had tried to fill that.

Right and even though, he didn't present it to the pharmacist, the writers tried to push the viewer's angst button by what the pharmacist said to the customer ahead of Kevin.  Did you catch what the pharmacist  said? Something about how terrible  doctors' handwriting has gotten. So bad that you can barely read it.  Man....talk about obvious.  It made me cringe. I suppose that was supposed to give Kevin more courage to go forth with presenting the forged prescription.  

Edited November 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[luna1122]

Show still has never made me cry, but I thought Justin did a great job on this episode. I know he's considered a lightweight actor by many, but he sold it for me. His anguish was real, even if the flop sweat they keep spraying him down with and yet hardly anyone pays attention to looks silly.

I don't feel bad for Charlotte either. She's a grown ass woman, a DOCTOR, for cripes sake, yet she ignored that he was drunk and spiraling just to sleep with the famous guy she had a crush on. Yeah, if situations were reversed, and it was a woman who was that drunk and strung out and a guy knowingly slept with her like that, we'd be calling it assault. Kudos to Kevin, I guess, for still being able to perform under those circumstances. I get her being pissed that he took off without a word while she was constructing the blanket picnic of yodels and cheese, but if a guy was weeping on my front lawn cuz he left behind the only thing he had left of his dad's....I don't care how bad my feelings had been hurt, I'd help him find his necklace. She just came off like an insecure, bitter, crazy bitch.

 

I have no real feelings about Kate's baby, but don't know why they even bothered making her pregnant if she was just going to lose it two eps later.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't fault Justin as an actor either. My goodness, with that material....The fact he can do it with a straight face and no eye rolling is impressive. 

And while a person can hide their substance abuse and be functioning, Kevin isn't functioning.  He's obvious.  When a person enters my office and we speak, within 4-5 minutes, intoxication of some sort is obvious. I'm no mental health expert either.  You can even tell when someone speaks for a few minutes.  How often have celebs gotten up to accept awards on tv and after a minute or two, everyone is asking what are they on.  Okay.  I'm going to move on from this.  Hopefully, it's on the verge of a resolution.  

[Eeksquire]

In thinking about this episode, I came to a different theory as to what happened with the fire and Jack and Kevin.  I think the speculation here is that Teen Kevin got addicted to pain killers after his injury and that this is a relapse into that addiction.  But I don't think we've seen anything in the actual Teen Years footage to support that - it's mostly just speculation.  I wonder if Jack wasn't injured in the fire (potentially with some kind of burn injury, which are notoriously painful), which led to Jack becoming addicted to painkillers and/or relapsing into alcoholism and having that indirectly lead to his death.  

That would explain why Kevin's use of painkillers only got a raised eyebrow from Kate and she left it at his explanation that Adult Kevin "didn't like the way they made me feel" without getting into a whole Kate freakout.  As far as I know, anyone who has had prior addiction issues and who subsequently needs any kind of surgery has a pain management plan that includes relapse mitigation (for lack of a better term - I'm not in the field, so there's probably a term for it, I just don't know it). 

Then Charlotte would potentially figure into the whole thing as well - she's a plastic surgeon who helps burn victims, bringing everything back around to Jack on Kevin's disastrous return to school and possibly giving a second explanation as to why Kevin would go home with her.  (I don't see him being calculating enough - or sober enough, in the moment - to have considered that maybe he could find her prescription pad and have that be the sole motivation for sleeping with her.  I think he was looking for a life raft and she was there, and nice to him, and he didn't want to go back to a sterile hotel room...)

I like Justin Hartley in this role, and I think he's doing the best he can with it, but the writing in this episode for Kevin was not even close to as good as the writing we saw last season for Randall.  I do like the overarching story arc that we have going as a through line here that Jack's father was an alcoholic and it more or less ruined his life, and Jack was an alcoholic who is struggling to keep it from ruining his life and then we have Kevin, who is struggling with the same thing, and we don't yet know how it's going to go.  That's one nice feature of having a multi-generational story being told all at the same time.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Who is Kevin's agent? Wouldn't he be making Kevin's arrangements? 

Kevin's lack of an entourage always bugs me.  He should have a manager/agent, a publicist, a personal assistant and probably some friends who just follow him around.  I suppose the asst. thing is covered by Kate having been it originally but wouldn't he have replaced her by now?  And he had a manager or agent in season one but ... did they fire him or something?   

16 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I had a silly moment as Kevin woke up with Charlotte, when I thought he might have found the perfect woman to save him, a generous doctor who might have reminded him  a little bit of his pretty  sister who loves him unconditionally, who would help him recover  from his addiction and insecurity. Nope.  Poor Kevin still can't get anyone to hear him.

Charlotte looked a little too much like Kate, mostly teen Kate, for me.  

16 hours ago, shoovenbooty said:

I don't know why the pettiest of things bother me about this show. When Kevin goes to the site of his childhood home and sees there's a new house built there, the address by the door changes between scenes. And I don't mean between scenes of the past where his family is playing football in front of the house, I mean between shots of the old man walking outside to ask Kevin what he can help him with. It has bugged me all day! :P

I noticed in the credits that the maid that comes to Kevin's room was Rebecca Metz. Anyone know if she's any relation to Chrissy Metz? I couldn't find anything online, but the last name doesn't seem to be a common one, so I wonder.

The actress playing Martina the maid also plays Tressa on Better Things, the main character (an actress's) agent.  

The house numbers bothered me, too.  It was glaring.  I guess they made a set, filmed one scene of the actor at the door, then later decided they needed a shot pulled back and rebuilt the set for it, but didn't mind the details.  Or another show used the set in the interim but changed the house number for some reason.  

I think that it's not sexual assault every time one person is intoxicated, they have to be beyond some level of reasonable consent.  We didn't see that occur.  In the last pre-bed scene of Kevin he looked sweaty, upset and tired but not beyond capable of saying 'no' to a woman's unwanted advances.  So I think he's the bigger ass.  How hard would it have been to tell Charlotte some excuse then run out instead of just sneaking out? 

But I think the over-dramatized sentimentality of one object is ridiculous, too.  It's a piece of metal, it's not your actual father.  But I feel the same about the dumb ash urn.  Yes, I know, not everyone feels that way.  I do.  If your little chain is your most prized possession, keep it in a safe.  

I read the thread before watching the episode so I thought I'd hate it but it actually wasn't too bad for me.  I think Hartley does ok, as do all the cast.  The writing is occasionally very good.  They just hit the emotional stuff with heavy anvils.  They could dial it back and it'd be much more effective for a lot of people, I think.

The whole 'football field oral bio' thing was too much for me.  There are more subtle ways to give the audience that exposition.  

I too was wondering why the field lights were on.  The HS down the street from me only runs them during events.  I know it costs a lot to run those big lights.  

Edited November 16, 2017 by Guest

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Right and even though, he didn't present it to the pharmacist, the writers tried to push the viewer's angst button by what the pharmacist said to the customer ahead of Kevin.  Did you catch what the pharmacist  said? Something about how terrible  doctors' handwriting has gotten. So bad that you can barely read it.  Man....talk about obvious.  It made me cringe. I suppose that was supposed to give Kevin more courage to go forth with presenting the forged prescription.  

Yes I do remember that now that you mention it. I'm assuming you meant how obvious it was that the producers were trying to heighten the drama and sell the story of Kevin being that desperate to go to those measures. But geez could they not have researched that scenario a little better. I suppose there might be a small percentage of doctors who might still write scripts but I can't imagine any who would hand write scripts for narcotics. I guess the laws differ from state to state but in my state doctors stopped writing narcotic scripts years ago. They won't call them in either to try to stop fraudulent people, such as nurses from calling them in illegally. Believe me it happens hence the move to special printed scripts that have to be hand delivered to the pharmacy. It just seems to me that to try to sell and make Kevin's desperation fit, the show kind of insulted the viewers intelligence somewhat. I know to some it's nitpicking but there have been numerous inconsistences pointed out by viewers and stuff like that just bothers me. Typical Hollywood though.

Edited November 16, 2017 by yorklee2

[Biggie B]

Quote

I have no real feelings about Kate's baby, but don't know why they even bothered making her pregnant if she was just going to lose it two eps later.

'Cause this is a soap opera. Whatever can be done to produce the most drama, they'll do it.  Kate's miscarriage affects almost every character on the show, so there's a lot of material there. 

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Just don't make is suicide. That darkness would be too much, I can't see it going there yet, the hero is more their style, but when you are struggling with staying sober, a fire is a big stress.

In the episode "Jack Pearson's Son," Toby asks Kate to discuss Jack's death with him, because while he knows how he died, he doesn't know the specifics. Kate completely clams up, even stating that she can't "get the words out." So I guess Toby knows but not exactly.  I knew someone who had their dad commit suicide and she couldn't say it for years.

Never even considered he might be a suicide - which would actually explain a lot. If it was, I wonder if they were told at the time. I imagine it's hard enough to know right away, but it could be a more recent shock.  When I was in fifth grade, the father of a girl down the street killed himself (he was facing criminal charges - white collar stuff), but she was told he had a heart attack. My fifth grade self thought that was a bad idea - since everyone knew what had happened. But they moved away quickly, so maybe she didn't find out. But I've often wondered if she ever found out and how that would impact her.

57 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

So when we're asked to look for clues, it's hard to know what is an actual clue and what's just lazy writing/editing.  And I don't want to invest time looking for precious clues that are likely to mean nothing because the writers feel like they are so much smarter than their viewers.

This is what bugs me about the show runners. We're already dissecting everything they show us. Can you imagine any novelist telling their fans to look for clues?  Just put the clues and the red herrings there - we'll have fun (presumably) when we are either right or wrong.

Did anyone else notice that while Kevin and Randall were both applying for colleges, Kate was seemingly doing nothing? No one mentioned, or even suggested, she might be going to college. They mentioned that Kevin was a C+ student and a football scholarship was his best plan, and of course Randall was the brain.  But what's up with Kate?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Paloma]

20 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Since he feels like he doesn't deserve the award, he doesn't feel like his family should be burdened with travelling to Pittsburgh to attend the ceremony. 

Not to mention that he invited his family to come for the taping of the special episode of The Manny and they all (or most) ended up walking out. So even if he didn't feel that he was undeserving of the award, he might not want to invite them to the ceremony because, based on their walking out on The Manny, he could assume they wouldn't care that much about a high school award ceremony.

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

'Cause this is a soap opera. Whatever can be done to produce the most drama, they'll do it.  Kate's miscarriage affects almost every character on the show, so there's a lot of material there. 

Okay.  So, now that they have the miscarriage, they will have the stereotypical dialogue between Toby and Kate in the aftermath.  I've seen this hundreds of times before.  I won't even bother with listing it here, but, please.  Maybe, they'll throw something original in there. Hope springs eternal.  

[Biggie B]

Agreed, SunnyBeBe. While each person will react in his/her own way to a miscarriage, I'm hard pressed to think of anything we haven't seen before in other shows, movies, books, etc (or even experienced ourselves, sadly). We'll see - but my expectations are really low.

[Paloma]

19 hours ago, Katy M said:

19 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I hated the Charlotte plot point because it’s not at all believable that a successful woman with a fulfilling career would be fangirling over the high school chick magnet.  Is this a show business fantasy that everyone not in show business feels inferior?  

I don't know about that. It's not about being "not in show business."  It's not even about Kevin being in show business.  This woman described herself as a nerd back in high school who only went to school so she could gush over Kevin.  I'm sure there was some hyperbole there. I had a crush in high school, but the real reason I went was because I was pretty sure my mom wouldn't let me drop out.  But, anyway, no matter how successful you get in life, sometimes those early feelings of "nerddom" just don't go away.  Successful professional does not necessarily translate into "confident in life."

Agree with Katy M that it's not about show business and not even about being successful. I was also a nerd in high school with a big crush on one of the popular guys, and for at least a few years after high school I probably would have been thrilled if I ran into him and we ended up dating (though I was never into one-night stands and would have been as hurt as Charlotte was about that). Even after my life became outwardly successful in some ways, inside I continued to feel like the girl in high school who was not in "the crowd" and was never asked out. I don't think it was a coincidence that they had a somewhat overweight actress play Charlotte--that made it even more believable to me that she would want to fulfill her fantasy about Kevin, because she was likely insecure about her looks (or maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings). Still, I was disappointed that she ignored his condition and the obvious fact that he was not really interested in her.

[SuzySmith]

16 hours ago, shoovenbooty said:

I don't know why the pettiest of things bother me about this show. When Kevin goes to the site of his childhood home and sees there's a new house built there, the address by the door changes between scenes. And I don't mean between scenes of the past where his family is playing football in front of the house, I mean between shots of the old man walking outside to ask Kevin what he can help him with. It has bugged me all day! :P

I noticed in the credits that the maid that comes to Kevin's room was Rebecca Metz. Anyone know if she's any relation to Chrissy Metz? I couldn't find anything online, but the last name doesn't seem to be a common one, so I wonder.

I also noticed this. I even rewound the DVR to be sure.  I wondered if it was a hallucination of Kevin's, or if they just didn't CGI it to fit the story.

[axlmadonna]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, mtlchick said:

At the end of the hour I'm like "dammit show, can you give one of the three a break?!"

They did... he broke his leg. Lol

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, axlmadonna said:

They did... he broke his leg. Lol

I know that Kevin thinks he lost it all, but, he might should look on the bright side.  There are a lot of people damaged from playing football or even dead. I know it's not popular, but, learning the facts, really turned me around.   It could have been a blessing in disguise. 

http://time.com/4948320/football-brain-damage-consussions-study/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/04/you-ready-some-football-brain-damage-editorials-debates/616928001/

Edited November 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[doublek61]

Everyone keeps dwelling on "that's not how that prescription would be written"......I think that's kind of the point.  Had he not realized the missing necklace, he probably would have been "caught" in about two seconds.

With that being said, a little over a year ago, I broke my arm (of course, in the middle of the night, away from home).  After a long E/R visit, I was written a prescription for narcotic pain killers, and we went to an all night pharmacy to get it filled.  It was on paper, not in triplicate, and I didn't even get out of the car, my boyfriend and cousin went in (neither of whom share a last name with me) and were able to get it filled.  Looking back, it kind of surprised me.

[OtterMommy]

10 minutes ago, doublek61 said:

With that being said, a little over a year ago, I broke my arm (of course, in the middle of the night, away from home).  After a long E/R visit, I was written a prescription for narcotic pain killers, and we went to an all night pharmacy to get it filled.  It was on paper, not in triplicate, and I didn't even get out of the car, my boyfriend and cousin went in (neither of whom share a last name with me) and were able to get it filled.  Looking back, it kind of surprised me.

I think it is a very recent move for doctors to fill prescriptions electronically and it isn't widespread.  It's been years since a PCP has given me a prescription on a piece of paper, but I did get a slip for a narcotic painkiller (1 pill!) when I had lasik about 5 years ago.  

I asked a friend of mine who is a physician and she said there are a number of reasons why doctors are getting rid of paper prescriptions, and the narcotics is one of them (at least in my area).

ETA:  All that being said, I did find it, ahem, convenient that the doctor had her prescription pad in her bedroom dresser.  Just sayin'.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:12 PM, doodlebug said:

Nowadays, most doctors don't even HAVE prescription pads, I certainly don't have any in my home.  At my office and the hospital, non-narcotic prescriptions are e-scripted to the pharmacy with no paper whatsoever.  Any narcotic prescription prints out on special paper and must be hand signed and the patient must bring it to the pharmacy in person.  Also, any narcotic prescription must have the doctor's DEA number on it.  It used to be illegal to have prescription pads with the DEA printed on it, it had to be hand printed along with the signature.  So, even if the doctor had a prescription pad in her home (why?), Kevin wouldn't be able to write a prescription in her name without her unique DEA number which the pharmacist would verify before filling it.

Just looked in my desk at work: I've got 3 old prescription pads in the back of a drawer; haven't used any of them in at least 6 years, probably more.  Years ago, someone had a prescription pad printed up with my name on it and tried to pass some prescriptions at local pharmacies.  The pharmacist reported it (because he knew my prescribing practices and that I didn't routinely give prescriptions for large amounts of narcotics) and the cops picked the guy up when he came back to get the meds.  Nowadays, we're not supposed to give anyone a prescription for more than a week's worth of narcotics.

Uhh Dr. Doodlebug...I have a mole on my shoulder if you could take a look at it while we're here...  ;-)

 

I haven't seen prescription pads in existence for a long time. Everything gets printed out or e-scripted as you said. I was cringing that Kevin forged one for Fentanyl and was so relieved when he ran out of the pharmacy. No way he'd get away with a sweaty hand written old school prescription for one of the strongest narcotics out there.

[Dejana]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

This is what bugs me about the show runners. We're already dissecting everything they show us. Can you imagine any novelist telling their fans to look for clues? Just put the clues and the red herrings there - we'll have fun (presumably) when we are either right or wrong.

Did anyone else notice that while Kevin and Randall were both applying for colleges, Kate was seemingly doing nothing? No one mentioned, or even suggested, she might be going to college. They mentioned that Kevin was a C+ student and a football scholarship was his best plan, and of course Randall was the brain.  But what's up with Kate?

If it was the author of an ongoing series....sure? When the Harry Potter books hadn't all been published yet, JK Rowling was always mentioning hints and clues, whenever fans asked about upcoming developments. A standalone novel can be read all at once, so it's not experienced the same way as a story in pogress--at least when it's still new and in the midst of being told.

Rebecca and Kate were having a conversation in the flashback, but the focus went back to Kevin and Jack, though you could still hear indistinct voices for a bit. Maybe it was about whatever college plans she had. I wonder if we'll see that scene from their perspective next week.

 

1 hour ago, doublek61 said:

Everyone keeps dwelling on "that's not how that prescription would be written"......I think that's kind of the point.  Had he not realized the missing necklace, he probably would have been "caught" in about two seconds.

With that being said, a little over a year ago, I broke my arm (of course, in the middle of the night, away from home).  After a long E/R visit, I was written a prescription for narcotic pain killers, and we went to an all night pharmacy to get it filled.  It was on paper, not in triplicate, and I didn't even get out of the car, my boyfriend and cousin went in (neither of whom share a last name with me) and were able to get it filled.  Looking back, it kind of surprised me.

Kevin's an actor and just recently, was totally unfamiliar with/oblivious about the concept of conflict-free jewelry. This is not a well-read guy. He's supposed to know the most up-to-date procedures in prescription writing because...he watched that Frontline about the opioid crisis? SAG-AFTRA offers an online course for people who might play doctors on TV? Did Dr. Charlotte's prescription pad have "For Narcotics Only" printed across the top in bold letters or something? Doctors do still prescribe other things. Mostly as e-scripts it seems, but paper Rx pads still exist. Kevin using it the wrong way is not a show writing mistake.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Dejana

[SunnyBeBe]

Not that it's a huge deal, but, NY does require non-handwritten prescriptions for the most part.  I couldn't confirm that about PA.  This article is from 2016.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/nyregion/new-york-to-discard-prescription-pads-and-doctors-handwriting-in-digital-shift.html

To me, the way the show had the pharmacist make the comment about how poor the doctors' handwriting had gotten, made me think that they didn't consider that point.  I don't think they know or thought about it, to have put that comment in there.  It gave the impression that the pharmacist is seeing plenty of doctor's handwritten scripts.  Oh well....I'm not surprised really. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I haven't seen prescription pads in existence for a long time. Everything gets printed out or e-scripted as you said. I was cringing that Kevin forged one for Fentanyl and was so relieved when he ran out of the pharmacy. No way he'd get away with a sweaty hand written old school prescription for one of the strongest narcotics out there.

I dropped off a paper prescription at the drug store just over a year ago.  It wasn't for narcotics, though.  It was for an antidepressant.  And it wasn't written by a "regular" doctor.  It was written by the vet.  No, my cat wasn't depressed, it has a different use for feliens, which the pharmacist was apparently unaware of as he asked me what it was for.  Another of the pharmacists asked if he thought it could be used for humans that way and the first pharmacist practically bit his head off for the question. My, did I digress.  Anyway, paper prescription.  Last year.

26 minutes ago, Dejana said:

Rebecca and Kate were having a conversation in the flashback, but the focus went back to Kevin and Jack, though you could still hear indistinct voices for a bit. Maybe it was about whatever college plans she had. I wonder if we'll see that scene from their perspective next week.

That might actually be fun.  If we saw that same scene each of the three weeks, focused on what the parents were saying to each of the kids.

[Biggie B]

14 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Rebecca and Kate were having a conversation in the flashback, but the focus went back to Kevin and Jack, though you could still hear indistinct voices for a bit. Maybe it was about whatever college plans she had. I wonder if we'll see that scene from their perspective next week.

I think I remember Rebecca saying to teen Kate, "Make that list!" or, "Let's see that list!" and in the context of Kevin working on his Notre Dame application, and Randall working on his Harvard application, I figured Rebecca was asking Kate to make a list of schools she'd want to apply to.

[CelticBlackCat]

Maybe the show writers wanted us to realize that a hand-written Rx for Fentanyl was probably not going to pass muster with the pharmacist.  We then saw the two police officers come into the store for coffee (?) for some extra added drama and Kevin is standing in line all sweaty as usual.  The drama of Kevin possibly getting caught with a forged prescription subsides as he realizes he no longer has his necklace, rushes out, and then the drama continues, but about the necklace.

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

So I think he's the bigger ass.  How hard would it have been to tell Charlotte some excuse then run out instead of just sneaking out? 

 

Yes, Kevin could have said, "I'm so sorry, but I'm already late going to my brother's house. I'd better run.  Call you later!" 

But I think the over-dramatized sentimentality of one object is ridiculous, too.  It's a piece of metal, it's not your actual father.  But I feel the same about the dumb ash urn.  Yes, I know, not everyone feels that way.  I do. 

I feel the same way.  The urn stuff always makes me want to giggle. The Big Three are all overly obsessed with mementoes and traditions and  I want some wise person to make one of the show's dramatic speeches about how when people die their souls go on to a happier place and they aren't hanging around,  waiting on the mantle, for when we feel like talking to them.  Neither are they standing in the family room in a white sheet.  At least I hope not, for all our sakes.

I have a few things that belonged to my parents, but the memories don't live inside them. 

[ShadowFacts]

31 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

 

I feel the same way.  The urn stuff always makes me want to giggle. The Big Three are all overly obsessed with mementoes and traditions and  I want some wise person to make one of the show's dramatic speeches about how when people die their souls go on to a happier place and they aren't hanging around, waiting on the mantle, for when we feel like talking to them.  Neither are they standing in the family room in a white sheet.  At least I hope not, for all our sakes.

I have a few things that belonged to my parents, but the memories don't live inside them. 

Where is Dr. K when you need him?  I know, he's probably departed, too. 

[dcubed]

15 hours ago, sandyskyblue said:

.my brother-in-law was a drug addict and my husband tried to help him as much as he could for years...sadly, my husband found him one day after not hearing from him for a few days, he had OD'ed.

Sandyskyblue...my deepest condolences.  No a day goes by when I don't thank God that I'm alive and sober today.  I pray it stays that way. 

[PumpkinPK]

What did the doctor say she was cooking? I rewound and replayed several times and I just heard "yodels and cheese."  What is that?

[Biggie B]

10 minutes ago, PumpkinPK said:

What did the doctor say she was cooking? I rewound and replayed several times and I just heard "yodels and cheese."  What is that?

She wasn't cooking anything - she merely said "How does xxx [I don't remember the exact word she said, but it probably was cheese] and Yodels sound? I haven't been shopping..." meaning, she was just letting Kevin know those were the two things she could rustle up to offer him to eat, as her food supply was very low. I love Yodels!!!!

Edited November 16, 2017 by Biggie B

[CountryGirl]

Justin Hartley broke my heart this week.

Picturing his burned out house...

His picturing Jack in place of his HS football coach (more of adult Kevin and Jack interacting please):

His recounting of the game that changed everything.

The necklace...

OMG, the necklace and all it represented.

Him begging someone, anyone, to help him.

[dcubed]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I dropped off a paper prescription at the drug store just over a year ago. 

I had my gallbladder removed in June.  Because of my alcoholism, I was concerned about being prescribed pain pills.  I did not want anything highly addictive and I am allergic to codeine and morphine.  The doctor prescribed tramadol and gave me a written script the day of the surgery for three pills.  That's what we agreed upon, just enough to get through the night if needed.  He usually gives the scripts in advance but based upon my concerns, he asked that my husband remind him the day of surgery to write it. 

But no matter what each state requires, it's an important part of the story that Kevin not know or understand the law.  His addiction is new and he doesn't know the ropes yet - if he did, he certainly wouldn't ask for fentanyl.  My guess is he'll probably try it again and get caught and that will be his bottom....TMZ mug shot. 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I think I remember Rebecca saying to teen Kate, "Make that list!" or, "Let's see that list!" and in the context of Kevin working on his Notre Dame application, and Randall working on his Harvard application, I figured Rebecca was asking Kate to make a list of schools she'd want to apply to.

Yes, it did sound like an afterthought. Poor Kate. I guess they felt sports would help pay for Kevin, grades for Randall but poor Kate was caught in the middle, maybe will be an average student clouded by her brother's.

I hope we learn more about her, now its all weight issues, more weight issues and " I killed my Dad issues"  When you think about it, for 20 years they all have not talked this out with anyone. For 20 years it has stagnated over 20 Thanksgivings and Christmas and Mother's and Father's day.  Does anyone else think it's odd that it's this bad, so much later?

Edited November 17, 2017 by debraran

[PumpkinPK]

52 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

She wasn't cooking anything - she merely said "How does xxx [I don't remember the exact word she said, but it probably was cheese] and Yodels sound? I haven't gone shopping..." meaning, she was just letting Kevin know those were the two things she could rustle up to offer him to eat, as her food supply was very low. I love Yodels!!!!

Ty!  But what is a yodel?

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, PumpkinPK said:

Ty!  But what is a yodel?

It's like a chocolate Twinkie, more or less.

[PumpkinPK]

Just now, Katy M said:

It's like a chocolate Twinkie, more or less.

Thanks Katy.  I'm in the US, but I am 99% sure we don't have them where I live.  I have never seen them in any store.

They don't sound very good alongside cheese.  But alone, def a good "morning after" snack!

[debraran]

10 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

 

This is what bugs me about the show runners. We're already dissecting everything they show us. Can you imagine any novelist telling their fans to look for clues?  Just put the clues and the red herrings there - we'll have fun (presumably) when we are either right or wrong.

 

That's the one thing that has made some of my coworkers stop watching or just watch it later in the year. The first year it was fun and the "death" was known and it wasn't a big deal. I guess we were lead to believe it would happen at the end, probably the car, but then it didn't and it began this long Clue game.  The producer would read responses and say he hadn't seen it yet, fueling more speculation. For pete's sake if, it wasn't on any Internet site, I will be surprised, but who knows. Why that became important, hurt the show a bit. The development of the characters was overshadowed by directors saying to look for clues, Mandy saying to watch out for this, don't miss that. The show is about them, not us rewinding to see what was on a table or (and I did this) looking at a bag by her side with a magnifying glass.

I decided whether he dies by smoke, fire, alcohol, car, construction accident, it doesn't matter. It will be a relief to see if the show can get back to the magic of the first year and really getting to know the 3 of them and others they encounter. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by debraran