S08.E17: In Sod We Trust

[Jennifersdc]

On 11/1/2017 at 0:16 PM, MaggieG said:

 

Roxanne is so fucking ridiculous in that preview! Why did the entire Coven have to come to the registration?

Cause the MTV camera’s were there.

I’m assuming that’s why she’s jumping up on the restaurant booth in the preview too.

Not sure what kind of restaurants they frequent - that would rightly get me asked to leave...

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, Jennifersdc said:

Especially considering Jenelle’s tears are 95% fake.

I’m sure we’ll get them at the Reunion while she dramastically dabs a tissue in her eye with 1 lb. of perfectly undisturbed eye make-up.

I fixed that for you-haha! Jenelle believes if she starts a sentence with "I've been crying my eyes out all morning/day/night" it absolves her of any responsibility and she's supposed to get whatever she wants. She's used it on every person we've seen her interact with during this train wreck of a show. In reality, it's code for "Dude! I'm so fucking stoned I can barely keep my eyes open"

Edited November 2, 2017 by lovesnark

[littleB1rdy]

16 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I fixed that for you-haha! Jenelle believes if she starts a sentence with "I've been crying my eyes out all morning/day/night" it absolves her of any guilt and she's supposed to get whatever she wants. She's used it on every person we've seen her interact with during this train wreck of a show. In reality, it's code for "Dude! I'm so fucking stoned I can barely keep my eyes open"

Yes! I noticed that! Interesting how her crying her eyes out is supposed to make everyone stop in their tracks and tend to her yet we've seen Jace and Kaiser actually crying their eyes out and yet not one hint of sympathy (even faking for the cameras!) from Jenelle.

[lovesnark]

29 minutes ago, littleB1rdy said:

Yes! I noticed that! Interesting how her crying her eyes out is supposed to make everyone stop in their tracks and tend to her yet we've seen Jace and Kaiser actually crying their eyes out and yet not one hint of sympathy (even faking for the cameras!) from Jenelle.

It's been interesting to remember just how many times she's started a sentence with that line and she's done it with everyone. From crew members to attorneys, soulmates, "friends", pretty much anyone within earshot.

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

How is this any different from Chelsea dating in a way that it wasn't captured by the cameras, except that she hid it from the show while Jenelle and David don't have any self control and don't think more than five seconds ahead and therefore end up in the position of asking the cameras to leave?  They all try to hide things, and some are more successful than others.

Because of that, actually, Jenelle's may be the most "real" depiction of all of them.

I think the difference is that we've seen how vile and nasty Jenelle and David can be towards production. We've seen no indication of that with Chelsea. If I was a boss, I'd definitely cut my more well-behaved employees some slack. Also, Chelsea was hiding some low key dating that came before Cole. And maybe those guys had ZERO interest in being filmed. So perhaps she wasn't even really hiding it, but no one would sing off on it. Chelsea, out of all of them, seems the most likely to end up with someone who ISN'T a giant fame whore. Cole STILL seems pretty uncomfortable with the cameras. But he probably tolerates them for her sake. 

The shit that Jenelle is trying to hide isn't out of respect for the parties involved. It's because she knows they psycho shit that goes on around there would bring way too much scrutiny into her barely held together life. She doesn't want people to know just how bad it gets around there. It's scary how meek she suddenly becomes when David is enraged. I wouldn't care, but there are innocent children living in that hell hole. 

19 hours ago, Sprockets said:

Yes.  I suppose it's all a matter of degree.  I don't think of dentists as being particularly wealthy.  

Shit, my husband just got a bridge and it was $4000!!! Someone is getting paid well! 

I think it also depends on where you live. In a small town in the midwest, a dentist is living very nicely. Yea, it's not professional basketball player nice. But very very comfortable. 

14 hours ago, Booted said:

I found a ton of videos there made by Jenelle from when she was much younger with Jace as a baby. From these videos I was only more so convinced that she is not some horrible girl that did not ever care for her child and for someone who was not suppose to be around to take care of her child she sure made an awful lot of video where she was alone with him as an infant. 

This video has to be one of the most biased things I've ever seen. You said yourself that Jenelle made them. Well, there's your proof right there. Three minutes of Jenelle cuddling Jace to a Nicki Minaj isn't going to convince me that she's anything less than a sociopathic lifesuck. 

First of all, let's address the fact that the video is titled "Jenelle and Jace", yet there are more Kiefer shots than there are Jace shots! Seriously, half of that video was of her on dates with Kiefer. No Jace in sight. That right there is indicative of her entire life story. Sure, she showed up once in awhile and played with her kid. But that doesn't negate the fact that 90% of the time she was so busy partying and chasing dudes that she ended up signing her rights away. That's right. SHE gave over custody, and it took YEARS for her to actually stop pretending she wanted him back and show up in court. And she still didn't get him. Because she has a history of never putting him first. Period. 

Also, plenty of those shots were of the same day/time. I noticed quite a few repeat outfits. 

And, who's to say she was "left alone" with him. Barb or Mike were likely right out in the other room. 

We've watched the show. A "touching" YouTube video may show us stuff we've never seen. But MTV didn't make up the scenes they aired of the clear blue sky. We can all see for ourselves how Jenelle bailed and chased dudes around the country and put her child at risk by bringing random, skeevy dudes around him when she DID come around. I've never once see her do anything that shows that Jace is the most important thing in the world to her. And he should be. 

14 hours ago, Booted said:

Has David fought with / beat up Jenelle that we know of? Has he been arrested ? Has she since with him ? I must agree that my opinion is they don't change BUT some dudes make some pretty bad choices when angry and immature- ones they would not and do not repeat. 

I wouldn't call pushing your pregnant girlfriend out of a car a "bad choice" or just something you do when "angry and immature". I have no proof, but I guarantee David has hurt Jenelle. Watch the way she acts around him. Classic abused wife syndrome. She's constantly smoothing things over with producers and acting like things are hunky dory. "No, we weren't fighting. Come look at the jellyfish!" Kaiser has told his paternal grandmother that David punched him. We've seen David drag the kid around by his arm. He hasn't pulled an Amber and hauled off and hit someone on camera, but I am under no impression that the things he did to his ex were one time things. 

 

14 hours ago, Booted said:

You know none of this is specific enough and really doesn't back up claim of physical menacing or such. Barbs screeching could be considered menacing too. 

"Menacing" by definition suggests a presence of danger. Barb is about 5 feet. David is well over 6. He's larger, stronger, and (unlike Barb) has a history of violence. I'm fairly certain Barb's screeching would not make him feel that he was in "danger". 

[DangerousMinds]

IIRC, Chelsea didn't just hide "some low-key dating" but YEARS of continuing to hook up with Adam after she claimed to have moved on.

[Sprockets]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

YEARS of continuing to hook up with Adam after she claimed to have moved on.

Oh yeah.  She even admitted to some of it.  And to not using birth control.  She was just lucky.  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, chuckity said:

Why in the heck does Nova need after school care anyway?

 

Brianna doesn't work.  And I don't believe Devoin does either.  

Briana does work- for a time share company in Orlando. Her hours aren’t standard 9-5/M-F but she works full time hours. 

Devion is UNEMPLOYED (in any legal capacity) but no he doesn’t watch Nova so that Briana can save on childcare expenses. Probably because 1. He doesn’t care to, 2. Briana knows Nova would be better off in after care/daycare, she cannot have Devion flaking and requiring her or Brittany or Roxanne to take time off from work. Better to pay for the care out right and know Nova is okay. 

[ghoulina]

40 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

IIRC, Chelsea didn't just hide "some low-key dating" but YEARS of continuing to hook up with Adam after she claimed to have moved on.

She copped to it at the reunion every time. 

I think it was happening at night, so MTV may not have been around to capture it. Thank God. 

[GreatKazu]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

She copped to it at the reunion every time. 

I think it was happening at night, so MTV may not have been around to capture it. Thank God. 

That's what I was just about to post. When does MTV ever capture these fools engaging in hook-ups, one-night stands, adultery, or anything related? Were we privy to Cory and Leah's hook-up or Leah's hook-ups with Robbie? lol All we get is a story about deer-cams from The Ashley. 

Unlike the others who deny or lie about certain situations (infidelity, PCOS, drinking while pregnant, lying about being on birth control, smoking weed while pregnant, DV) Chelsea admitted it when the topic was brought up by Adam. She didn't storm off or refuse to answer any questions relating to the hook-ups. Isn't that what is referenced when it comes to these girls? Their constant lying and denials. Here is one person who isn't lying, she isn't denying, she admits it and does so without putting up a fight or calling out Drew or MTV or creating a scene. When Chelsea, Adam, and Randy sat on the couch at a past reunion and Adam defended his asshole ways towards Chelsea by saying he treats her like shit because she was hooking up with his friend, she didn't sit there with a shocked looked or shriek in horror at the accusation. She calmly sat there and continued with the topic at hand. 

Not sure what the Adam hook-up or Cole dating Chelsea has to do with the accusation that she isn't doing her job for MTV, which is what was brought up.  Examples were given to contradict that accusation. I guess her giving birth to Watson without the cameras there to film it all is considered her not fulfilling her contract. lol 

Edited November 2, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Sprockets]

11 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

When does MTV ever capture these fools engaging in hook-ups, one-night stands, adultery, or anything related? Were we privy to Cory and Leah's hook-up or Leah's hook-ups with Robbie? lol All we get is a story about deer-cams from The Ashley

Never mind deer cams.  We apparently need dick cams if we're going to get the inside story.  And eww.

[Mkay]

Deleted scene: 

[FairyDusted]

Boy did she get that wrong! She should have listened to the name thing tho! Thanks @Mkay!

[Christina87]

I think Chelsea was likely upfront with the producers about Cole. What really makes me think that is that the season finale before Cole, she goes speed dating with her friends. I think her last words of the episode are, "I'm still single," or something like that. I bet she told producers and they planned to introduce him the next season. 

I don't mind Chelsea hiding low-key, non-serious dating. I'm betting they have all done that except jenelle! What I do mind is:

chelsea: hiding everything now that makes her look less than perfect

leah: hiding TR Dues

jenelle and Kail: refusing to film and storming off

Edited November 2, 2017 by Christina87

[StatisticalOutlier]

15 hours ago, TheRealT said:

You know, I never realized it before, but you're right. Jenelle and UBT are awesome, upstanding citizens and Barb is the one who's dangerous and fucked up.

Nobody ever said that.  Personally, I don't see this as a zero-sum game.  It's not necessary to elevate Jenelle in order to criticize Barb.  I think they're both awful parents in their own ways, and really care only about how it affects Jace.

 

12 hours ago, poopchute said:

If a crazy person wanted to pound on my door for an hour, that’s their decision. I don’t think Barb should have to get the police involved in a situation like that. She was safe inside her home and people outside her home were acting like lunatics. I would have done the same. She probably understands that the police have better things to do than come escort a crazy screaming person off her property. Let her scream. Jenelle chose to behave that way. I don’t think other people should have to stop what they are doing just because a crazy piece of shit is carrying on like a clown in their yard.

They could have avoided pounding on the door for an hour if they'd just gone on in instead of waiting for the door to be answered.  At least Jenelle was doing her screaming out in the yard instead of in the house she'd walked into uninvited, and refused to leave when told to.

Was Jace there?  If so, then Barb should have called the cops so he wouldn't have to listen to it.  Put him in a room and call the cops out of his earshot, and then keep him away from a window so he doesn't see Jenelle being hauled off if they arrest her.  Or maybe the cops would just make Jenelle leave the premises, like they did when Barb was carrying on at Jenelle's house.

 

5 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Quote

Correct- Devion’s Mother isn’t a part of Nova’s life, even in a typical grandparent way (visits, outings, Birthday/Xmas gifts- not speaking to paying bills or life expenses). Nor are Devion’s sisters involved as Aunts- this looks to me as if they are embarrassed by Devion and like to pretend he and his poor choices don’t exist (Devion’s poor choice was Briana, NOT Nova). No it’s not fair that Nova is deprived of these relationships (if they were to be loving and healthy), and however she feels about her paternal extended family in the future is HER right. 

Thank for filling me in. That is really sad for Nova. What trash (just like Jenelle's ex Andrew's family who doesn't see Jace/help Barb with him...I know it's not there responsibility to do so, but UGH).

If it's not their responsibility, then it is really fair to call them "trash"? 

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have no proof, but I guarantee David has hurt Jenelle.

Okay. 

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, Sprockets said:

Never mind deer cams.  We apparently need dick cams if we're going to get the inside story.  And eww.

If dick cams are used for Kail and Briana's sex partners, those cams will be lodged between those Mother Russia cheeks and be forever lost. 

[Sprockets]

32 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

If dick cams are used for Kail and Briana's sex partners, those cams will be lodged between those Mother Russia cheeks and be forever lost. 

Now I don't need the cam, because that image is etched into my brain.  Thank you.  

 

[SheTalksShit]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

IIRC, Chelsea didn't just hide "some low-key dating" but YEARS of continuing to hook up with Adam after she claimed to have moved on.

She didn't exactly HIDE it, like she owned it when it was brought up at the reunions. I think, during later seasons, it was done off-camera because of Adam, actually, bc he always has a girlfriend and at one point, had a girlfriend that was pregnant with his child. so naturally, he didn't want to hook up w/Chelsea on camera during that time. 

[SheTalksShit]

2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I think Chelsea was likely upfront with the producers about Cole. What really makes me think that is that the season finale before Cole, she goes speed dating with her friends. I think her last words of the episode are, "I'm still single," or something like that. I bet she told producers and they planned to introduce him the next season. 

I don't mind Chelsea hiding low-key, non-serious dating. I'm betting they have all done that except jenelle! What I do mind is:

chelsea: hiding everything now that makes her look less than perfect

leah: hiding TR Dues

jenelle and Kail: refusing to film and storming off

I don't think Chelsea even hid any non-serious dating - i think for the first 5 seasons, she was still so hung up on Adam and they kept going back and forth, hot and cold, so she didn't really date anyone or hook up with anyone besides Adam. she even joked with friends and people on the reunion that she doesn't really date. Chelsea is less outgoing and doesn't always need a man the way these other girls do. She's the type of girl who would rather be alone than with someone she's not really into. 

Season 5's last episode aired in October 2014 - it was probably filmed a good 4-6 months before that - and Season 6 did not air again until July 2015 (which is when Cole is first introduced as Chelsea's bf) and from what I can tell, it looks like much of it was filmed in the Fall 2014-Winter/Early Spring 2015. Sooo it looks to me like TM2 did not film in the summer 2014, which is when Chelsea says she met him, IIRC, at a gas station. So my guess is, she met him during the off-season, before they started filming again. 

Leah did hide TR Dues, for sure and I'm not sure when they broke up, but we haven't heard about him in a while. It makes me wonder if she's also hidden other guys from the show. It's unclear. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason TR Dues wasn't shown was bc he didn't wanna be filmed, tho, bc he even made his Twitter private. So. That one may not be her fault. 

We haven't heard about any new men in her life since then, tho and IDK if that's because there aren't any or if that's because she's decided she doesn't want people to her shitshow of a love life on camera anymore. IF she's had other guys since then, it can't be TOO serious bc if it was, they woulda moved in, you know how fast Leah and people in WV like to move lol - moving in after 2 months, engaged by 3 months, married by 6 months! it's bizarre to me but it seems like that's how that's just how they do it down there. lol. anyway. 

[SPLAIN]

Quote

Chelsea didn't just hide "some low-key dating" but YEARS of continuing to hook up with Adam after she claimed to have moved on.

You have two factors involved here - domestic violence and drug use.

My recollection is, Chelsea admitted to not being able to move on from Adumb. In fact, she had several conversations with her dad about it. She cried about it. I recall the numerous scenes of her mascara running down her face. The other issue regarding that relationship was the fact it was an abusive one. He may not have been physically abusive, but he was abusive to her nonetheless in other ways. He was also verbally abusive to Aubree.  It is extremely hard to break away from that kind of relationship. In fact, it is not unusual for the victims to return to the abuser. It may take years and several break-ups before the victim can finally feel they are ready to leave the relationship. Chelsea had a child with Adumb which only compounded the situation because she still had to have some interaction with him.

Adumb is a drug addict. Drug addicts are also manipulators. He is a meth user. Like all stimulants, meth evokes profound feelings of euphoria, intensity, and power along with the drive to obsessively engage in certain activities that the person wishes to engage in, such as sex. At the time Chelsea was engaging in on-and-off again time with Adumb, she didn't know about his meth addiction. It is obvious looking back how Adumb was only using Chelsea for sex. Adumb knew Chelsea was still longing for him which only made it that much easier for him to manipulate her to engage in sex.

Ghoulina I agree Jenelle has been harmed by David somehow. I watched how he handles Kaiser. If he does that to a child, who is an adult woman who gets in his face every now and then? Then, there is that police report about what he did to his ex-girlfriend. If there is one thing I learned about DV it is the abuser doesn't just suddenly stop their abusive behavior. Patterns. Jenelle and David have a past history that can't be overlooked.

[SPLAIN]

9 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I will say I don't despise the coven nearly as much as some others. They are INSANELY irritating and grating to watch on screen but they're some of the few people on this show with jobs and without any arrests for multiple forms of abuse and DUIs. So even though every time Briana and Roxanne speak it's like nails on a chalkboard and I desperately want to tell them to shut up, I won't ever hate them like I do the others except for Chelsea. Nova is well taken care of and it seems Stella is too and all three women appear to actually work at jobs that don't involve Instagram. 

They should have jobs. Don't they need those jobs in order to keep a roof over their heads and have food on their table? These are three adults who were not employed by MTV for over 8 years and receiving six figure incomes. There are also two minor children who are dependent upon them. TM3 was not a hit. It didn't allow any of them to earn the kind of money the other cast members have been receiving.

Jobs or not, Briana is on social media. She may not be on Instagram as much, but going by what I saw on her thread topic, she needs to step away from her Twitter.

People can be despised for many reasons without them having an arrest record or driving inebriated.

Edited November 3, 2017 by SPLAIN

[Booted]

17 hours ago, sandwoman said:

I believe Barb has been reluctant to call the police on Jenelle in other situations. I might be remembering this wrong, but I think there was a situation at the last reunion where Jenelle and David took Jace and the police were called but Barb refused to press charges. Am I remembering this right? I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of googling Barb, Jenelle and police... But anyway, there are lots of reasons to be reluctant to call the police on your daughter.

 

 

How do you suggest Barb could have deescalated the situation? And Jenelle herself is responsible for how Jace would have seen and heard her behave that night.

The situation at the reunion that you are talking about was made worse with Barb having a fit about going up to get Jace and her demanding he be brought down. Did you see the look on Jaces face? He did not look happy and all Barb cared about was her feelings and what her legal rights were - instead of maybe going up to see just what these terrible people were doing with him up there? Maybe showing that she is supportive of him wanting to be and being with his mother instead of acting like maybe he was being abused up there with her and that she had to save him only to not really be so concerned about getting him that she didnt even want to go up to get him - that was all about a power move by Barb and not out of concern for Jace.

What I think Barb should of done to deesculate the night she was out and they showed up at house - 1) Opened her door and let Jenelle talk to Jace and see that he was okay and see that her mother was okay or if she didnt want to do that she could have 2) Opened door and told them to leave again refusing Jace to see his mother or 3) Told them to go and called police. She should have done this without shouting or acting out of control of her emotions this would show and teach the children watching that you can calmly deal with such problems rather than hide from them - if you hide from problems they can get worse usually as it did there with police coming anyway. 

Hiding is just so strange I mean what can you be doing that is normal when people are knocking constantly and you are ignoring them?  Especially when the person knocking is your daughter and you have her son in the house with you. This just makes Jace have to pick or judge them both and believe me he still loves his mother no matter what Barb says to him or how Jenelle has let him down. Children want to be with their parents so much that this is why child protective services go to great lengths to preserve this - they know how much it can actually do more damage to pull children from their mother so they instead try to help the family stay together. 

Another thing she could do is to make fun of David filming her - like ask why he likes her so much that he does that?  Or if he is practicing for something or pull out her phone and film back ? If she isnt feeling like she has something to hide why let him get to her? But all of these things would take some strategy and control on her part - which she seems to not be able to do. Again more proof of her being much like impulsive Jenelle - apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

10 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Exactly.

SEE: Casey Anthony. 

Not just some pictures but videos - lots of them over months of time. 

[radishcake]

Guys disagreements on what happens on the show is fine. If you don't like a poster or their views ignore them. Do NOT pile on and insult other posters, it's against the site rules and warnings and time outs will be issued. 

[druzy]

41 minutes ago, Booted said:

The situation at the reunion that you are talking about was made worse with Barb having a fit about going up to get Jace and her demanding he be brought down. Did you see the look on Jaces face? He did not look happy and all Barb cared about was her feelings and what her legal rights were - instead of maybe going up to see just what these terrible people were doing with him up there? Maybe showing that she is supportive of him wanting to be and being with his mother instead of acting like maybe he was being abused up there with her and that she had to save him only to not really be so concerned about getting him that she didnt even want to go up to get him - that was all about a power move by Barb and not out of concern for Jace.

What I think Barb should of done to deesculate the night she was out and they showed up at house - 1) Opened her door and let Jenelle talk to Jace and see that he was okay and see that her mother was okay or if she didnt want to do that she could have 2) Opened door and told them to leave again refusing Jace to see his mother or 3) Told them to go and called police. She should have done this without shouting or acting out of control of her emotions this would show and teach the children watching that you can calmly deal with such problems rather than hide from them - if you hide from problems they can get worse usually as it did there with police coming anyway. 

Hiding is just so strange I mean what can you be doing that is normal when people are knocking constantly and you are ignoring them?  Especially when the person knocking is your daughter and you have her son in the house with you. This just makes Jace have to pick or judge them both and believe me he still loves his mother no matter what Barb says to him or how Jenelle has let him down. Children want to be with their parents so much that this is why child protective services go to great lengths to preserve this - they know how much it can actually do more damage to pull children from their mother so they instead try to help the family e stay together. 

But Barb is Jace's mother.

[HeySandyStrange]

29 minutes ago, Booted said:

This just makes Jace have to pick or judge them both and believe me he still loves his mother no matter what Barb says to him or how Jenelle has let him down. Children want to be with their parents so much that this is why child protective services go to great lengths to preserve this - they know how much it can actually do more damage to pull children from their mother so they instead try to help the family stay together. 

I guess I just have a vastly different perspective, but I haven't seen much evidence to suggest Jace has any overwhelming attachment to Jenelle at all. For the last few years I have mostly seen him acting very subdued around her. Almost like the lights are out when he is with her. I don't see any joy or happiness out of him (or Jenelle) when they are together. Probably because Jenelle is a cold fish with little emotions. Yes, children love their parents but usually even shitty parents can have bursts of love and affection to justify some of the child's affection. Jenelle doesn't even put forth that much effort imo. And I don't agree that keeping the family together is always the best option-plenty of cases where that has been proven tragically wrong.

Also, I think it is safe to say that after being his sole caregiver to him, Barb is just as much Jace's parent, if not more so, then Jenelle. Spitting out a baby proves nothing about you as a parent.

37 minutes ago, Booted said:

Another thing she could do is to make fun of David filming her - like ask why he likes her so much that he does that?  Or if he is practicing for something or pull out her phone and film back ? If she isnt feeling like she has something to hide why let him get to her? But all of these things would take some strategy and control on her part - which she seems to not be able to do.

Because she is human? I mean, even the most rational and intelligent among us (which Barb isn't) aren't always perfectly composed, especially when being confronted by extraordinary behavior. And, why is it all on Barb to always be the bigger, better person? It almost feels like, because we expect Jenelle and baby mama beater UBT to be shit human beings, everyone else who has a modicum of decency about them has to be a saint or they are disparaged just as much as them. I'm sorry, but Jesus Christ himself would probably weep with agony if he was tasked to deal with those fools, so to expect the very human, good hearted but imperfect Barb to remain on her best behavior is a bit much. Yout know, he who is without sin and all.

[crazychicken]

I am going with Janelle on who is Jace's mom. Janelle spun it as she won because she got weekend visits but at the end Barb got PERMANENT custody of Jace.

[DangerousMinds]

Jenelle has never been his mother. 

[TheRealT]

2 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

They should have jobs. Don't they need those jobs in order to keep a roof over their heads and have food on their table? These are three adults who were not employed by MTV for over 8 years and receiving six figure incomes. There are also two minor children who are dependent upon them. TM3 was not a hit. It didn't allow any of them to earn the kind of money the other cast members have been receiving.

Jobs or not, Briana is on social media. She may not be on Instagram as much, but going by what I saw on her thread topic, she needs to step away from her Twitter.

People can be despised for many reasons without them having an arrest record or driving inebriated.

Yeah, I assume that a big part of why the coven are working menial jobs is that they haven't had MTV money. Who knows what they'd be like if they had been on the MTV teat for all these years? I'd be more impressed with Briana if she had managed to do something more than work an apparently entry-level job with no obvious career prospects. She got some MTV money back when she first had Nova and she's had ample support from her her mom and sister to go to school or train for some kind of career. 

2 hours ago, Booted said:

What I think Barb should of done to deesculate the night she was out and they showed up at house - 1) Opened her door and let Jenelle talk to Jace and see that he was okay and see that her mother was okay or if she didnt want to do that she could have 2) Opened door and told them to leave again refusing Jace to see his mother or 3) Told them to go and called police. She should have done this without shouting or acting out of control of her emotions this would show and teach the children watching that you can calmly deal with such problems rather than hide from them - if you hide from problems they can get worse usually as it did there with police coming anyway. 

Hiding is just so strange I mean what can you be doing that is normal when people are knocking constantly and you are ignoring them?  Especially when the person knocking is your daughter and you have her son in the house with you. This just makes Jace have to pick or judge them both and believe me he still loves his mother no matter what Barb says to him or how Jenelle has let him down. Children want to be with their parents so much that this is why child protective services go to great lengths to preserve this - they know how much it can actually do more damage to pull children from their mother so they instead try to help the family stay together.

There is video footage of Jenelle and UBT interacting with Barb probably less than an hour before they showed up at her house. They saw her and talked to her and, eventually, let her drive away with the kids. They CLAIMED that the reason they followed her to her house and harassed her there is that they were afraid she was passed out drunk inside with the kids (from the wine she drank at the restaurant BEFORE they accosted her in the parking lot and BEFORE she drove home from the restaurant). That doesn't really make sense, but, ok. Letting them talk to Jace and see that he was ok wouldn't have accomplished anything because they had just seen Jace and screamed at Barb in front of him (I don't recall them addressing Jace or asking him whether he was ok). It was obvious from their behavior that they weren't concerned about Jace or wanting to communicate with him to make sure he was ok. Again, shortly before they showed up at Barb's house they were standing a few feet away from Jace in a parking lot and didn't even address him directly. The police were called eventually (after all of Jenelle's and UBT's other stunts came to nothing) and they found that Barb wasn't passed out drunk, the kids weren't in danger, and Jenelle's and UBT's "concern" was all for nothing. I don't see how that adds up to Barb having done anything wrong.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

There is video footage of Jenelle and UBT interacting with Barb probably less than an hour before they showed up at her house. They saw her and talked to her and, eventually, let her drive away with the kids. They CLAIMED that the reason they followed her to her house and harassed her there is that they were afraid she was passed out drunk inside with the kids (from the wine she drank at the restaurant BEFORE they accosted her in the parking lot and BEFORE she drove home from the restaurant). That doesn't really make sense, but, ok.

Agree.  

Re the bolded part (mine), if you, me, or any other rational person saw a drunken person  getting behind the wheel, we'd be on the phone calling 911. What do these two twats do? They DON'T CALL 911.  They didn't call because BARB WAS NOT DRUNK. 

Quote

She [Briana] got some MTV money back when she first had Nova and she's had ample support from her her mom and sister to go to school or train for some kind of career. 

She was shown going to school. The entire coven went shopping for school supplies. Whatever happened to her schooling? Did she quit like Leah? 

Edited November 3, 2017 by GreatKazu

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I guess I just have a vastly different perspective, but I haven't seen much evidence to suggest Jace has any overwhelming attachment to Jenelle at all. For the last few years I have mostly seen him acting very subdued around her. Almost like the lights are out when he is with her. I don't see any joy or happiness out of him (or Jenelle) when they are together. Probably because Jenelle is a cold fish with little emotions. Yes, children love their parents but usually even shitty parents can have bursts of love and affection to justify some of the child's affection. Jenelle doesn't even put forth that much effort imo. And I don't agree that keeping the family together is always the best option-plenty of cases where that has been proven tragically wrong.

Also, I think it is safe to say that after being his sole caregiver to him, Barb is just as much Jace's parent, if not more so, then Jenelle. Spitting out a baby proves nothing about you as a parent.

Because she is human? I mean, even the most rational and intelligent among us (which Barb isn't) aren't always perfectly composed, especially when being confronted by extraordinary behavior. And, why is it all on Barb to always be the bigger, better person? It almost feels like, because we expect Jenelle and baby mama beater UBT to be shit human beings, everyone else who has a modicum of decency about them has to be a saint or they are disparaged just as much as them. I'm sorry, but Jesus Christ himself would probably weep with agony if he was tasked to deal with those fools, so to expect the very human, good hearted but imperfect Barb to remain on her best behavior is a bit much. Yout know, he who is without sin and all.

Exactly, she is not a politician, her every action and reaction is not pre-calculated, she doesn't always think before she speaks or acts. 

I mean, who amongst us hasn't, at some point in our lives, reacted in a way that we later look back on and say, "oh, i shoulda handled it differently, i shoulda just said this, i shoulda just ignored him, etc." 

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I guess I just have a vastly different perspective, but I haven't seen much evidence to suggest Jace has any overwhelming attachment to Jenelle at all. For the last few years I have mostly seen him acting very subdued around her. Almost like the lights are out when he is with her. I don't see any joy or happiness out of him (or Jenelle) when they are together. Probably because Jenelle is a cold fish with little emotions. Yes, children love their parents but usually even shitty parents can have bursts of love and affection to justify some of the child's affection. Jenelle doesn't even put forth that much effort imo.

 

THIS!

I'm not even trying to be snarky here, but can anyone remember the last time Jace ran up and hugged his egg donor or Barb?  Or when the last time was that Jenelle ran up and hugged Jace and MEANT it? I don't see him hug Barb either, so I will admit that, even though I am totally team Barb.

It's almost like he doesn't even know what true joy and/or excitement is for a plethora of obvious reasons, and I can't blame the kid. He probably doesn't receive sincere, authentic love from the egg donor. I suspect Barb is affectionate with him, but coupled with the cluster fuck of being shuttled to THE LAND and dealing with UBT, the kid probably doesn't know how to express any sincere emotion...which is NOT good and I hope his being covered in his therapy sessions.

Maci & Ryan, Amber & Gary, Kail/Jo/Javi and even Jesus God Leah! are great about making sure they show their kids love during the drop offs/pick ups AND also make sure that their children acknowledge whichever parent is doing the dropping off, as they should be, because it teaches the kids good manners and models civil relationships, which I know Jenelle and Barb don't have. I read your post and it struck me instantly that I've never seen that little boy genuinely happy (which we know there are 203346 reasons for), but the lack of hugging/physical contact strikes me as bad parenting. Again, not a mom, but had to agree with you. 

While those of us who were upset and trying to book flights/arrange car pools to NC after seeing Kaiser yelling "feed me!" and being manhandled by UBT, Jenelle's natural reaction wasn't maternal at all. We all know she's a narcissist, but ignoring her toddler, who was both visibly and audibly upset, was just wrong on so many levels. I'm not a mom, but it appears to me as if she has zero attachment to those kids (said the entire world, I know). I should be used to it, I suppose, but I just can't with her. Not when there is a little boy's emotional health on the line. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bridget
content n stuff

[GreatKazu]

Quote

While those of us who were upset and trying to book flights/arrange car pools to NC after seeing Kaiser yelling "feed me!" and being manhandled by UBT, Jenelle's natural reaction wasn't maternal at all. We all know she's a narcissist, but ignoring her toddler, who was both visibly and audibly upset, was just wrong on so many levels. I'm not a mom, but it appears to me as if she has zero attachment to those kids (said the entire world, I know). I should be used to it, I suppose, but I just can't with her. Not when there is a little boy's emotional health on the line. 

Whatever happened to that road trip? 

[poopchute]

7 hours ago, Booted said:

Opened her door

Yikes. I would never open my door for unstable lunatics who are yelling outside. Especially lunatics with a history of serious drug abuse and/or lengthy criminal records that include a variety of charges including physical violence. That is very scary to me.

[Sprockets]

9 hours ago, Booted said:

. I might be remembering this wrong, but I think there was a situation at the last reunion where Jenelle and David took Jace and the police were called but Barb refused to press charges.

Yes.  Barb wanted the police to "talk" to David, but she said she wouldn't press charges on her daughter.  Naturally, she is conflicted.  

4 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Whatever happened to that road trip? 

We went.  You drove.  On the way home, you pulled over and said "Do whatever you need to do to me so I will never remember this."  Success, except for those almost-invisble scars behind your ears.  

Edited November 3, 2017 by Sprockets

[Pepper Mostly]

6 hours ago, Bridget said:

 

I'm not even trying to be snarky here, but can anyone remember the last time Jace ran up and hugged his egg donor or Barb?  Or when the last time was that Jenelle ran up and hugged Jace and MEANT it? I don't see him hug Barb either, so I will admit that, even though I am totally team Barb.

 

Jace won't run and hug either Barb or Jenelle at pickup/dropoff, for fear of making the other one mad. Poor kid is just putting his head down and trying to keep the peace.

3 hours ago, poopchute said:

Yikes. I would never open my door for unstable lunatics who are yelling outside. Especially lunatics with a history of serious drug abuse and/or lengthy criminal records that include a variety of charges including physical violence. That is very scary to me.

Agreed. there is no way in hell.

[ReadMeLattice]

20 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I think it is a bit of an exaggeration to call anyone on this forum a Stan, though. Obviously some of us may have favorites ( or at least cast members we hate the least) but most everyone here is reasonable and makes reasonable arguments if they do disagree. 

For true TM Stans, one only has to direct themselves to FB or Reddit. Logic, reason, and reality are totally disregarded in pursuit of staning these chicks.

Stan isn't an insult...people call themselves it all the time ("I stan *singer,* I can't wait for her concert"). People sometimes use it that way but people will also say "I think Beyonce is cool, but I'm not a stan," just meaning they don't like her all that much. :)

Sorry if the colloquialism caused confusion, I meant no harm. 

4 hours ago, poopchute said:

Yikes. I would never open my door for unstable lunatics who are yelling outside. Especially lunatics with a history of serious drug abuse and/or lengthy criminal records that include a variety of charges including physical violence. That is very scary to me.

Yeah, I think that is a highly unreasonable expectation. David has weapons, doesn't he? And Jenelle is scary enough on her own but when she feels she has a "man" (I use the term lightly) on her side she gets even worse. 

However, I do believe Barb should have called the police. In many cases, I feel that she doesn't have strong enough boundaries, especially around Jace. I feel for her regarding that, but...she is Jace's mom in every way. Her loyalty has to be to him.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Lm2162

[DangerousMinds]

Some people/kids just aren't huggers. Nothing wrong with that.

No way I would have opened my front door, in my own home, to those 2 psychos who were yelling and pounding on the door, after they had stalked and followed me home. Seems like a really bad idea to do so. Fuck them.

[TheRealT]

7 hours ago, Bridget said:

I'm not even trying to be snarky here, but can anyone remember the last time Jace ran up and hugged his egg donor or Barb?  Or when the last time was that Jenelle ran up and hugged Jace and MEANT it? I don't see him hug Barb either, so I will admit that, even though I am totally team Barb.

There was a scene at a drop off where Jenelle yelled at Barb and after Jenelle left Barb was ranting to the crew about how hurt/upset she was and Jace came out of the car to hug her. I've also seen him be spontaneously affectionate with her (and vice versa) in their scenes at home without Jenelle.

[Sprockets]

7 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

I've also seen him be spontaneously affectionate with her (and vice versa) in their scenes at home without Jenelle.

I've seen that, too.  He will kind of lean into her, or the like.  On the other hand, she still yells at Jenelle in front of him on a regular basis.  Barb protects him to a degree, and thank god she is there, but she makes some big mistakes on a consistent basis.  

Edited November 3, 2017 by Sprockets
typo

[teapot]

13 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

 

Leah did hide TR Dues, for sure and I'm not sure when they broke up, but we haven't heard about him in a while. It makes me wonder if she's also hidden other guys from the show. It's unclear. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason TR Dues wasn't shown was bc he didn't wanna be filmed, tho, bc he even made his Twitter private. So. That one may not be her fault. 

 

I kinda remember Amber saying that the producers told her that Matt was in her life & living w/her, the public had a right to see him.  (Yes I know that Matt is a gigantic famewhore)

 

who knows if this was true, but that's not really fair, that Leah got to hide her live-in BF

[CofCinci]

1 minute ago, teapot said:

I kinda remember Amber saying that the producers told her that Matt was in her life & living w/her, the public had a right to see him.  (Yes I know that Matt is a gigantic famewhore)

 

who knows if this was true, but that's not really fair, that Leah got to hide her live-in BF

I sort of give MTV a pass for hiding TR Dues. Let’s face it, WV is a very racist region.  Even in 2015, his safety would be at risk for being in an interracial relationship. 

[TheRealT]

35 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

I've seen that, too.  He will kind of lean into her, or the like.  On the other hand, she still yells at Jenelle in front of him on a regular basis.  Barb protects him to a degree, and thank god she is there, but she makes some big mistakes on a consistent basis.  

Yes. In the scene at the drop off Barb shouldn't have been ranting/crying the way she was in front of Jace and he shouldn't have been put in the position of trying to comfort her while she was ranting about his mom egg donor. Obviously, Barb does that all the time, though she knows for a fact that it's traumatic for Jace.

I think that's really bad and I would never choose Barb to raise my child (though, in all fairness, it's not really like Barb asked to be "chosen" to raise Jace or made the decision to have/raise a child). I can't help but feel bad for her, though, and feel like she is doing the best she can in a very difficult situation that she did not create. Any halfway decent person in Jenelle's situation would be grateful to Barb for taking care of her child and make some attempt to support Barb. Jenelle, instead, has mostly tried to punish Barb. Jenelle goes out of her way to ruin small pleasures Barb has like a dinner out with friends or an MTV trip to LA. Barb is obviously very emotional and Jenelle's behavior is really hurtful to her, so she often loses her cool and behaves inappropriately. I'm not excusing that, but I think it's understandable. Also, I think Barb's behavior/parenting is probably significantly better when Jenelle isn't around. I believe that her life with Jace is mostly calm and "normal" and I doubt that she has screaming fights and fits of hysteria on a regular basis like Jenelle does.

Edited November 3, 2017 by TheRealT

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

Stan isn't an insult...people call themselves it all the time ("I stan *singer,* I can't wait for her concert"). People sometimes use it that way but people will also say "I think Beyonce is cool, but I'm not a stan," just meaning they don't like her all that much. :)

Sorry if the colloquialism caused confusion, I meant no harm. 

It might be a generational thing. I just remember Stan coming about because of the Eminem song of the same name, about a obsessed, psychotic fan. So, not a great connotation for people in my age group. I guess the younger folks have turned it around. Makes me feel old at 33 lol.

20 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

I think that's really bad and I would never choose Barb to raise my child (though, in all fairness, it's not really like Barb asked to be "chosen" to raise Jace or made the decision to have/raise a child). I can't help but feel bad for her, though, and feel like she is doing the best she can in a very difficult situation that she did not create.

That's why I do cut Barb a little slack. She seems to be have some self awareness and seems to realize she wasn't the perfect mother or the best choice to raise Jace. She did what she had to for Jace, but I'm sure she wishes there were better options, like a stable, loving adoptive family.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

That's why I do cut Barb a little slack. She seems to be have some self awareness and seems to realize she wasn't the perfect mother or the best choice to raise Jace. She did what she had to for Jace, but I'm sure she wishes there were better options, like a stable, loving adoptive family.

Also why Barb BEGGED Jenelle to place Jace when he was an infant. I’m sure I’m Barb’s ideal world Jenelle would’ve found a family for Jace that would’ve allowed an open adoption, and she could’ve had a place in his life as his birth grandma. Of course after years of caring for him and nursing him through his childhood ailments she doesn’t want to give him up to anyone (much less the mess that is Jenelle). 

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, Booted said:

The situation at the reunion that you are talking about was made worse with Barb having a fit about going up to get Jace and her demanding he be brought down. Did you see the look on Jaces face? He did not look happy and all Barb cared about was her feelings and what her legal rights were - instead of maybe going up to see just what these terrible people were doing with him up there? Maybe showing that she is supportive of him wanting to be and being with his mother instead of acting like maybe he was being abused up there with her and that she had to save him only to not really be so concerned about getting him that she didnt even want to go up to get him - that was all about a power move by Barb and not out of concern for Jace

If someone other than my spouse (the only other person who has legal rights to our children) put any of my kids in a car and took them to another location without my permission, your damned right I'd be having a fit and demanding my child be given back to me. Jenelle and David did that shit on purpose. They knew they had no right to take Jace from his legal guardian. I wouldn't put it past them to KIDNAP Jace. So yup, I'd put his safety above him being happy in that instance. Jace is often put in the middle and I'm sorry for it. Barb could do SOME things differently, but she tries. Jenelle needs to do EVERYTHING differently. 

 

5 hours ago, TheRealT said:

There was a scene at a drop off where Jenelle yelled at Barb and after Jenelle left Barb was ranting to the crew about how hurt/upset she was and Jace came out of the car to hug her. I've also seen him be spontaneously affectionate with her (and vice versa) in their scenes at home without Jenelle.

I've seen him be affectionate with Jenelle. But with those dead eyes. He does things because he thinks he's supposed to, but when I watch his facial expressions and body language, I see a kid who is constantly on edge.  When he's around Barb, and Jenelle ISN'T there, he seems much more relaxed. I'll always remember him eating the cupcake after court. When Barb told him he got to stay with Meme, his face lit up and he was just happily eating his cupcake. When she went on to explain that he would have regular visitation at the swamp of psychos, his little face crumpled and so did his cupcake. 

[lovesnark]

5 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Yes. In the scene at the drop off Barb shouldn't have been ranting/crying the way she was in front of Jace and he shouldn't have been put in the position of trying to comfort her while she was ranting about his mom egg donor. Obviously, Barb does that all the time, though she knows for a fact that it's traumatic for Jace.

I think that's really bad and I would never choose Barb to raise my child (though, in all fairness, it's not really like Barb asked to be "chosen" to raise Jace or made the decision to have/raise a child). I can't help but feel bad for her, though, and feel like she is doing the best she can in a very difficult situation that she did not create. Any halfway decent person in Jenelle's situation would be grateful to Barb for taking care of her child and make some attempt to support Barb. Jenelle, instead, has mostly tried to punish Barb. Jenelle goes out of her way to ruin small pleasures Barb has like a dinner out with friends or an MTV trip to LA. Barb is obviously very emotional and Jenelle's behavior is really hurtful to her, so she often loses her cool and behaves inappropriately. I'm not excusing that, but I think it's understandable. Also, I think Barb's behavior/parenting is probably significantly better when Jenelle isn't around. I believe that her life with Jace is mostly calm and "normal" and I doubt that she has screaming fights and fits of hysteria on a regular basis like Jenelle does.

This really can't be said enough. Barb was in her late 50's when Jace was born. She was thinking about retirement, not raising another kid. Jenelle hid the pregnancy from Barb until it was too late to have an abortion and she refused to consider adoption. She flaunted the fact that she was having sex with Andrew in Barb's house while she was at work to Barb's face. So, Jace is born and Jenelle's life didn't change at all. She was back to partying with her friends when Jace was just a few weeks old. Once again, Barb begged her to let Jace be adopted by a family who would give him the love and attention he deserved. When it became apparent Jenelle had no maternal instincts and no desire to take care of the baby SHE CHOSE to bring into the world and after continued threats from Jenelle that she was going to take him and leave, Barb did what she thought was the only thing she could to ensure Jace's safety. If she'd been able to get Jenelle to give up parental rights when she signed over guardianship, Barb probably would have let him go because it was what was best for him and she knew it. Fast forward 7 years and Jenelle is still using drugs, she's still getting pregnant by every new soulmate and she's still involved in abusive relationships. Barb has raised Jace and she loves him. She wanted what was best for him as a baby and Jenelle wouldn't let it happen, so she did what she had to because her daughter wouldn't. 

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

If someone other than my spouse (the only other person who has legal rights to our children) put any of my kids in a car and took them to another location without my permission, your damned right I'd be having a fit and demanding my child be given back to me. Jenelle and David did that shit on purpose. They knew they had no right to take Jace from his legal guardian. I wouldn't put it past them to KIDNAP Jace. So yup, I'd put his safety above him being happy in that instance. Jace is often put in the middle and I'm sorry for it. Barb could do SOME things differently, but she tries. Jenelle needs to do EVERYTHING differently. 

 

This. And I do not believe for one minute that David isn't constantly pouring the idea of kidnapping Jace into Jenelle's ears. "we could take him. we could go to Mexico, or Brazil, they'd never find us". Yes I know that they'd have no money but this is David and Jenelle we're talking about. Maybe they think they can get some swampland in Brazil and grow pot. "we'll live off the land. it'll be great! Living there is cheap. We can take the Teen Mom money and live on it for years there!" I know he's miss his bobcat but sacrifices must be made.

[Booted]

Was not going to go all hard like someone said but now I am. I think that Barb is the person who has done something wrong because her past history and accomplishments in regards to parenting are beyond terrible and I do not think that she should be allowed to parent another child when she has raised 3 children that all have turned out to be train wrecks. 

#1) 

#2) 

#3) 

http://starcasm.net/archives/360470

 

And having a good heart or trying does not qualify for taking your daughters child and keeping it when she has her act together more than your other grown children and for that matter you did at her same age. Jace doesn't show any emotion probably because he is medicated by who? Barb that's who- and why ? cause she couldn't deal with yet another child that she is raising. Hmmmm she has now got 4 that she has raised and they all have to be medicated to function - who is the responsible adult for creating them all ? Barb the Savior and Saint - maybe they should give her a award for being the most good hearted ,trying her hardest mother and grandmother to be 0 in 4 despite all her effort ?

[druzy]

8 minutes ago, Booted said:

Was not going to go all hard like someone said but now I am. I think that Barb is the person who has done something wrong because her past history and accomplishments in regards to parenting are beyond terrible and I do not think that she should be allowed to parent another child when she has raised 3 children that all have turned out to be train wrecks. 

#1) 

 

#2) 

 

#3) 

http://starcasm.net/archives/360470

 

And having a good heart or trying does not qualify for taking your daughters child and keeping it when she has her act together more than your other grown children and for that matter you did at her same age. Jace doesn't show any emotion probably because he is medicated by who? Barb that's who- and why ? cause she couldn't deal with yet another child that she is raising. Hmmmm she has now got 4 that she has raised and they all have to be medicated to function - who is the responsible adult for creating them all ? Barb the Savior and Saint - maybe they should give her a award for being the most good hearted ,trying her hardest mother and grandmother to be 0 in 4 despite all her effort ?

Why no mention of Jenelle's father? 

Jenelle does not have her act together.

Edited November 3, 2017 by druzy

[TwirlyGirly]

30 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Once again, Barb begged her to let Jace be adopted by a family who would give him the love and attention he deserved. When it became apparent Jenelle had no maternal instincts and no desire to take care of the baby SHE CHOSE to bring into the world and after continued threats from Jenelle that she was going to take him and leave, Barb did what she thought was the only thing she could to ensure Jace's safety.

I realize I'm late to the party with this question as it was probably asked - and answered - years ago, but:

What would have happened if Barb had refused to take care of Jace, waited until Jenelle left the house to party, and then either called the police or CPS? Wouldn't Jace have been immediately been put in the foster care system? I'm just wondering how that scenario would have ultimately played out long-term. If Jenelle knew Barb wasn't going to take responsibility for Jace at all, and she'd already been reported for neglect and Jace had been taken away, at that point wouldn't she more or less be forced to either shape up or agree to have Jace adopted?