S02.E04: Still There

[Brookside]

4 hours ago, RedSoxRock said:

I don't want to be Debbie Downer but Kate is not just fat. She's morbidly obese. It's very rare for women her size to menstruate let alone get pregnant without even trying. I find this extremely unrealistic.

What I'm not looking forward to is the actress saying "I'm proudly portraying an obese woman but now I'm going to lose weight."

[Barlowe]

9 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

That was me and I'm actually pretty surprised to hear that the actress was 13/14 when this was filmed.  I'm around a lot of kids who are 12/13 and they all appear much younger than this actress.  Of course, everyone hits puberty at a different point, so I guess she's a bit on the early side of things.  Still, for an actress that young, she's pretty impressive.

I think it just depends. I remember our local transit system had a discount for children 12 and under and drivers used to side eye or outright question that if was actually 12 because I looked older.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, UBT said:

Randall screwed up with Deja. Telling her that her hair is beautiful and then that you had a nervous breakdown and inviting her to do something alone with him— she sees it as a threat.  

Obviously she doesn’t feel safe with men. She doesn’t trust Randall. Who knows what her other experiences have been in foster care or maybe relatives or her mother’s boyfriends. I think she cut the braids to attempt to keep herself safe. 

ITA. I remember when I was a kid, I saw some police drama episode where a girl had been raped. Shortly afterward, it was her birthday and her mom said, "Happy birthday to my big beautiful girl!" The girl ran out of the room and the mom found her cutting off her hair. When her mom asked why, the girl said, "I don't want to be big. I don't want to be beautiful." She thought that by cutting her hair and making herself less attractive, she would protect herself from being raped again. Poor Deja was probably subsconsciously doing the same thing. Not only was she reacting to Randall's compliment but she was also punishing Beth for blabbing to Randall. Two for one!

11 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Given that Beth has done nearly all the parenting of their daughters up to this point, it seems inevitable that Randall would seem bewildered by the task he has taking on a girl as a foster child. I wonder if he might do better with a 12 year old boy?

When he was really insistent on using his approach rather than Beth's about Deja's hair, I thought that maybe he should let Beth take the lead on this instead of letting his ego get in the way. The reason was not because Beth had been the stay at home mom for longer, as he thought though. Even though Randall knows how to take care of his girls' hair, that's not quite the same as being a black woman talking to a black girl about her hair. That's not a criticism of Randall as a parent or anything. He has the knowledge but Beth has lived with her hair for her whole life so she can probably relate a lot more to Deja about it.

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Who gets an ultrasound at six weeks?  When I was pregnant, I think we got two-- one at like 15 weeks and then at 20 or something.  I know they're done a lot more often now, though. 

Sometimes they do more tests with high risk pregnancies (and Kate's would be considered high risk due to her weight). The doctor said that the baby had grown from a poppy seed to a lentil since the last time she saw Kate. A friend of mine had a high risk pregnancy so she had an ultrasound when the baby was poppy seed sized (which led to her referring to the baby as "Poppy" for the duration of her pregnancy).

Quote

Thanks to other posters for reminding me how annoying Jack's petty jealousy of actors was at the video store. Yes, Jack, if you rent Look Who's Talking, your wife is going to leave you for John Travolta. Ironic that Jack's son went on to become a hot actor.

17 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

I don't look at it as jealousy, but more like insecurity. I know that doesn't make it less annoying, but to me, more understandable. 

Sure, insecurity is normal. Acting on it is a dick move and what moves you over into jealousy. It's one thing to think, "My wife thinks this actor is hot and I am not as attractive." It's another thing to veto every movie starring an actor who she finds attractive. Are you only going to watch movies with ugly actors for the rest of your life? On top of that, he also vetoed a movie she wanted to see without any mention of the actors being hot. What's left that's acceptable to watch, Jealous Jack?

[debraran]

42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA. I remember when I was a kid, I saw some police drama episode where a girl had been raped. Shortly afterward, it was her birthday and her mom said, "Happy birthday to my big beautiful girl!" The girl ran out of the room and the mom found her cutting off her hair. When her mom asked why, the girl said, "I don't want to be big. I don't want to be beautiful." She thought that by cutting her hair and making herself less attractive, she would protect herself from being raped again. Poor Deja was probably subsconsciously doing the same thing. Not only was she reacting to Randall's compliment but she was also punishing Beth for blabbing to Randall. Two for one!

Sometimes they do more tests with high risk pregnancies (and Kate's would be considered high risk due to her weight). The doctor said that the baby had grown from a poppy seed to a lentil since the last time she saw Kate. A friend of mine had a high risk pregnancy so she had an ultrasound when the baby was poppy seed sized (which led to her referring to the baby as "Poppy" for the duration of her pregnancy).

Sure, insecurity is normal. Acting on it is a dick move and what moves you over into jealousy. It's one thing to think, "My wife thinks this actor is hot and I am not as attractive." It's another thing to veto every movie starring an actor who she finds attractive. Are you only going to watch movies with ugly actors for the rest of your life? On top of that, he also vetoed a movie she wanted to see without any mention of the actors being hot. What's left that's acceptable to watch, Jealous Jack?

I remember years ago, when OJ trial was in the news, someone commenting how his daughter changed afterwards, gained weight, didn't dress as well, didn't want to look like her mother anymore or be in the press. Can't blame her and who knows what she was really feeling, but a traumatic event and multiple ones effect everyone and children absorb more than they'll talk about. Rich or poor, any abuse leaves a mark and I hope they don't gloss over it.

Jack has a lot of 50's attitude with women. I missed some of the video scene but I would never have anyone tell me what to watch and I don't know how'd I'd deal with a guy jealous of an actor. I knew a woman who had a guy tell her how to dress "because he loved her" and it made me cringe. I hope this part of him is minimally shown because it's not attractive and it can be abusive if the jealousy extends into friends, coworkers, etc.

I also hope they portray the gyn visits accurately. It does a disservice with a show like this, to make her pregnancy not high risk and although she can have a happy ending, the risks of many things increase with age and weight. You can educate and still have an  interesting pregnancy laced with laughter and tears.

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

I have lived in Cleveland and Pennsylvania and ( I am female) have shoveled a fair amount of snow.  I would never have my sick as a dog husband and son shoveling several feet so my bitchy mother can leave.

I live in Wisconsin, and yeah, sick people shouldn't be shoveling, it not uncommonly brings on heart attacks especially in men, but this is Jack the extreme super family man who is apparently overcompensating or something.  No wonder Randall wants to braid everyone's hair.

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It will probably also be impossible to hear the heart rate with a Doppler (the electronic gizmo we use in the office) until maybe 20 weeks, so the doc may well have to do an ultrasound every visit for the first months just to check the fetal heartbeat. 

Just wondering since we have an expert here, how is a fetal heartbeat detected on something the size of a poppyseed?  Or lentil? 

[Conotocarious]

You can get a heartbeat via Doppler at 12 weeks, as I did with my daughter. Anything before that you need the ultrasound. The heartbeat looks like a flashing on the ultrasound. My first with my son was at 6 weeks and 4 days. I wasn't high risk either. It was my first pregnancy and the doctor wanted to see if there was a heartbeat and to help determine the due date. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Conotocarious

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When he was really insistent on using his approach rather than Beth's about Deja's hair, I thought that maybe he should let Beth take the lead on this instead of letting his ego get in the way. The reason was not because Beth had been the stay at home mom for longer, as he thought though. Even though Randall knows how to take care of his girls' hair, that's not quite the same as being a black woman talking to a black girl about her hair. That's not a criticism of Randall as a parent or anything. He has the knowledge but Beth has lived with her hair for her whole life so she can probably relate a lot more to Deja about it.

Totally agree. That absolutely should have been a Beth moment from the jump. Styling hair is one thing, but there's a lot wrapped up in Black hair and hair care. That's just a Black woman to Black woman thing. When Deja said "My mom has beautiful hair," I wondered if she had had those moments that most Black girls have sitting between her mother's knees while her mother did her hair. 

[PRgal]

Goodness, my parents are A LOT like Rebecca's mom.  And here I thought it was only immigrant parents who are like that (and that my clashes with them are purely cultural).  Just about everything I do is "wrong" to them.  While they're nowhere NEAR as vocal/blunt (probably generational) as Rebecca's mom, I KNOW it's there.  Rebecca and her mom's moment was definitely a trigger.  

 

Oh, and Deja?  Thanks for making me feel old when you said that Alicia Keys was old.  #justsayin 

Edited October 19, 2017 by PRgal

[marceline]

Slightly OT but my white coworker just came into my office to ask all kinds of questions about black hair care because of this show so congrats "This Is Us" you are certainly broadening perspectives. ;-)

[ChromaKelly]

20 hours ago, UBT said:

Randall screwed up with Deja. Telling her that her hair is beautiful and then that you had a nervous breakdown and inviting her to do something alone with him— she sees it as a threat.  

Obviously she doesn’t feel safe with men. She doesn’t trust Randall. Who knows what her other experiences have been in foster care or maybe relatives or her mother’s boyfriends. I think she cut the braids to attempt to keep herself safe. 

Yep. I also wish they would have touched on the fact that poor hygiene is a common thing among foster children. Some just don't have the skills, they've never learned proper hygiene. Some use poor hygiene as a way to keep themselves safe. Children soil themselves to keep abusers away, for example. Deja might have cut her hair as an instinct to make herself look less attractive. Sometimes it's self-esteem, their outer appearance is a reflection of how they feel. Beth handled it in an appropriate way that also built up her trust. I understand her sharing with Randall, but either she should have told him to please keep that to himself or Randall should have had the sense not to reveal that he knew. I was cringing when he was trying to "bond". He also shouldn't come to her room alone. I really wish they had had more foster parent training.

[pawsodoom]

On 10/18/2017 at 9:57 AM, PRgal said:

I was "old" to get it too - 11, back in 1990.  Most kids would have had it by that age, so some of the other kids didn't believe me - one boy said I disappeared for a week because I had an awful case of pimples.  My husband got it in his 30s!!!  Never had it as a child.  

My grandmother was pregnant with my mom when all of the kids got it. To this day, my mom (in her mid-70s) still has never had the chicken pox. I avoided it when almost my entire kindergarten class got it. I finally succumbed at age 29, most likely after being on the same flight as someone who had the virus (but possibly didn't have the full-blown spots yet). 

I thought Beth did a lovely job with Deja about her hair. I was expecting Deja to say that she was pulling her hair out as a reaction to all that was going on in her life. And way to make it about you, Randall! 

I'm "meh" on Kate's pregnancy. I had read a spoiler that it was coming, so I wasn't shocked. 

[Katy M]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 10:03 PM, mariah23 said:

Calling it now!  A boy named Jack.

I know the doctor only mentioned one lentil, but I'm calling twins anyway.  A boy and a girl.  Jack and Jackie?

[Blakeston]

14 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't think Jack's a particular prize, but I took that scene as a bit of an in joke between the two of them. It seemed light hearted to me.

I, too, saw the Jack/Rebecca conversation in the video store to be silly banter more than anything else. I didn't interpret it as Jack actually forbidding Rebecca from watching anything with an actor she might find attractive.

When she expressed her appreciation for Patrick Swayze, and he said, "vetoed," she responded by laughing and playfully shoving him. I took the exchange as a reminder that Jack has some insecurities, but not as a red flag suggesting abuse or huge control issues.

[tinderbox]

20 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

I think we posted at about the same time, as I mentioned something similar in my (unintentionally) very long comment. I don't blame Beth for sharing the general idea of their conversation with Randall, as they are both her foster parents, but for gods sakes, she should have told him that middle schoolers are sensitive as it is, and no one else in the house needs to bring up her problems with her hair. It's amazing to me that Randall doesn't have the tact to know when to keep his mouth shut.

Also, I think Beth said something like "Between you and I..." to Deja during their hair conversation.  So, Deja probably took that comment literally and didn't expect Beth to share it with anybody. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by tinderbox

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I live in Wisconsin, and yeah, sick people shouldn't be shoveling, it not uncommonly brings on heart attacks especially in men, but this is Jack the extreme super family man who is apparently overcompensating or something.  No wonder Randall wants to braid everyone's hair.

Just wondering since we have an expert here, how is a fetal heartbeat detected on something the size of a poppyseed?  Or lentil? 

The baby's heartbeat can be seen on ultrasound about 6 weeks after the last period.  You can hear it with a Doppler around 10 weeks at the earliest, mainly in very thin women.  In Kate's case, it will be months and months, if ever, before the heartbeat will be audible.

[Darknight]

23 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

I agree with you on the Kevin/addiction story line. Shows also seem to do this with surprise pregnancies too, and, oh look -- Kate's pregnant! That didn't surprise me in the least. I can't say I saw it coming, but I definitely was not surprised. I had like, zero emotional reaction, other than, of COURSE she's pregnant. If it's not a boy named Jack, it will be a girl named Jackie. Or it will be a devastating and complicated pregnancy that ends tragically. I could see this going either way. 

Toby will be excited, and probably over-bearing. Shows do that a lot in the previews too, where one character announces she's pregnant, and we see the other person go, "Uhhh, what?" so that you think they might react negatively, and then in the actual episode, we see that they really say, "Uhhh, what? THAT'S AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Haha.

I don't know how to quote multiple posts, but in response to whoever said that the actor who plays Toby really thinks he's created some dream guy -- I didn't read the article you mentioned, but it is true! I read another interview after the first season with Chrissy Metz and she was talking about Toby, and she was gushing about how perfect the actor is in the role, and how he's created this wonderful partner for Kate. Maybe a lot of things end up on the cutting room floor? Or maybe they have a rapport on set that doesn't translate onto tv? I'm stumped on that one. He also reminds me of an old boss who I couldn't stand, so Toby is a fail for me. Haha.

The rest of the casting though -- spot on. Rebecca's mother not only nailed her scenes, but I would 100% believe she was actually Mandy Moore's mom if someone told me she was. So good. I loved the ending scene with her and Randall, and how young Randall handled it so maturely even after learning the truth about his grandma.

And the actress who plays Deja is amazing too. When Randall was talking to her, and you saw her reflection in the mirror, I could see exactly what her character was thinking, and my heart slowly started sinking until she said, "She told you?" Ugh. So heartbreaking. Obviously Beth did the right thing in speaking to Randall, but she should have told him she thought she made some real progress, and for him to not mention anything. Although, she probably figured it was a no-brainer that he would bring up something so personal to a child he barely knows when he wasn't present for that conversation. I wonder if we'll see Beth lay into Randall at all for that one, or at least remind him when he needs to have a filter! He ended up making both of them look kinda bad in Deja's eyes.

I am glad Randall is trying to use his experiences to inspire Deja, but they're way too preachy, long-winded and serious. And frankly, not all that relevant. Getting left at a fire station and adopted at birth is a lot different than being an adolescent with a single parent who is a criminal and obviously has provided a very unstable life for her thus far. I think if he talked about this stuff a little less formally, and a little less word vomit-y, he'd have better luck. And talking about his nervous breakdowns was totally inappropriate. Save that for later, or if it seems she's actually on the verge of one and really needs help. Not when she's still adjusting to her life with them. It's so frustrating to watch! When he came to her bedroom door, I just thought, "oh god, no." So cringe-y.

Someone else also mentioned they have a hard time believing she's 12. I was thinking that too, but then I remembered 2017 12-year olds are a lot different than 1997 12-year olds (which is when I myself was 12). Such a different world. The internet says the actress is 14 now, so provided she was 13 during filming, it's about right.

And the Jack videos at Toby/Kate's house....so, those would have been recorded on VHS originally, and transferred onto DVD or some other program, as has been mentioned. That in itself is legit, I suppose. But if their house burned down in a fire and it looks like they pretty much lost everything...how did the VHS tapes hold up in order for this to even happen? And the pausing on Jack's face before taking the pill -- that scene was a little corny for me. 

This. Being adopted at birth is very different than being in foster care and being a teen. Two different experiences. 

[CarolMK]

Is the actress who plays Kate actually pregnant and they're writing it into the story? Just wondering. I'm not so sure that she is morbidly obese. The camera always makes people look heavier. I remember years ago when Roseanne had her show that people greatly overestimated her actual weight. I'd guess that the actress weighs no more than 230-240 at the most.  It's well within the normal range of being able to get pregnant. 

I don't mind the story line of the foster daughter but I find myself wishing that Randall and Beth had more stories taking place with their own children rather than a foster one. It's very hard to follow up last season's relationship of William with Randall but I wouldn't mind the focus being their own kids instead of so much on another child. 

[PRgal]

I'm surprised at the actress's age.  Deja is a very difficult role to play and I assumed they'd cast someone who was around 15.  And yes, Randall's experience as an adoptee is different than Deja's as a foster child.  Kids who go from home to home to home are likely to have attachment issues - they don't want to get too close to an adult because they know they'll (probably) have to leave eventually.  It's a form of defence. 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, marceline said:

Slightly OT but my white coworker just came into my office to ask all kinds of questions about black hair care because of this show so congrats "This Is Us" you are certainly broadening perspectives. ;-)

About a year ago, some fantasy about fostering a little black girl  (I'm way too old) got me wondering how I would do her hair and I ended up watching hours of YouTube videos of black mothers doing their daughters' hair.  There was something so incredibly beautiful and bonding about all of them!  I loved hearing Beth talk about what it meant to her mother and sisters.

[Empress1]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

About a year ago, some fantasy about fostering a little black girl  (I'm way too old) got me wondering how I would do her hair and I ended up watching hours of YouTube videos of black mothers doing their daughters' hair.  There was something so incredibly beautiful and bonding about all of them!  I loved hearing Beth talk about what it meant to her mother and sisters.

My former coworker has an adopted Black daughter that she and her husband adopted at age 2 out of foster care (and a bio white daughter) and when she told me about her daughters, I thought "I hope the Black one has someone in her life that can do her hair."  And when I met her kids I was like "Come through, Mom!" because both her girls had great hair. She said she and her husband learned to do it themselves and they also found a Black salon that her daughters (both of them!) like.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

The baby's heartbeat can be seen on ultrasound about 6 weeks after the last period.  You can hear it with a Doppler around 10 weeks at the earliest, mainly in very thin women.  In Kate's case, it will be months and months, if ever, before the heartbeat will be audible.

Thank you, and that is amazing.  I'm guessing poppy seed is a bit of hyperbole then, I can't imagine seeing something within a poppyseed, or even seeing a poppy seed in there.  But I'm always behind the eight ball on technology. 

[chabelisaywow]

Can't remember which episode - but wishing Kevin a HBD scene with proposal doesn't match with the War Story we are watching now. 

When he says to Ron Howard about "plopping" the person he's proposing to in the scene made me think it was going to be CGI. 

[ChromaKelly]

1 hour ago, CarolMK said:

Is the actress who plays Kate actually pregnant and they're writing it into the story? Just wondering. I'm not so sure that she is morbidly obese. The camera always makes people look heavier. I remember years ago when Roseanne had her show that people greatly overestimated her actual weight. I'd guess that the actress weighs no more than 230-240 at the most.  It's well within the normal range of being able to get pregnant. 

I don't mind the story line of the foster daughter but I find myself wishing that Randall and Beth had more stories taking place with their own children rather than a foster one. It's very hard to follow up last season's relationship of William with Randall but I wouldn't mind the focus being their own kids instead of so much on another child. 

No, she's got to be at least 300, maybe 350. I'm 230, and yes I know I'm fat. But I can still sit in regular chairs,  movie seats, stadiums, airplanes, etc, people aren't taken aback by my appearance, that kind of thing. I just look like your average overweight woman.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

No, she's got to be at least 300, maybe 350. I'm 230, and yes I know I'm fat. But I can still sit in regular chairs,  movie seats, stadiums, airplanes, etc, people aren't taken aback by my appearance, that kind of thing. I just look like your average overweight woman.

I tried looking it up, and I have no idea if there was any verification to this, but one website had her listed as 399 pounds and another says she weighs almost 400 pounds.  So, two different, but equally unverified sources have the same weight, for whatever that is worth.  They also both have her height at 5' 3".

[PRgal]

13 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

No, she's got to be at least 300, maybe 350. I'm 230, and yes I know I'm fat. But I can still sit in regular chairs,  movie seats, stadiums, airplanes, etc, people aren't taken aback by my appearance, that kind of thing. I just look like your average overweight woman.

She's also not very tall.  I think Chrissy is 5'4" or something like that?  

Re ultrasounds:  Someone upthread said they were surprised Kate had an ultrasound so early.  I'm coming from an IVF perspective, but yes, many do - to make sure the embryo took REALLY took (blood tests will show that one is pregnant - hormonally, but won't necessarily tell you whether an embryo is actually in there).  I know Kate did not go through IVF, but she is considered high risk due to her size.  

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

My former coworker has an adopted Black daughter that she and her husband adopted at age 2 out of foster care (and a bio white daughter) and when she told me about her daughters, I thought "I hope the Black one has someone in her life that can do her hair."  And when I met her kids I was like "Come through, Mom!" because both her girls had great hair. She said she and her husband learned to do it themselves and they also found a Black salon that her daughters (both of them!) like.

When my girls were little (in the 90's) I knew a woman who had fostered and then adopted a black daughter. That's when I learned that black hair products were kept locked up at most grocery and drug stores. And that was in liberal, suburban, California. It was an eye opener - I could not believe that in the 90's something so racist was going on so blatantly. Sadly, I'd believe it today.

[debraran]

I found also with many black products, a few miles makes a big difference too. One drugstore will have 20 things, a more affluent neighborhood, 10minutes away, about 3 if any. Most conditioners can be used by anyone, I have very dry hair and like some olive oil products.

I have biracial children and some black moms and non-black mothers, got on me about not relaxing their hair years ago, but I didn't like it until they were older and then if they wanted it.  Some days were dicey but they had "pom-poms" and braids (not cornrows, they had sensitive scalps) It was an education, not so much in hair, (I'm Italian and have thick, curly, bushy hair I've tamed over the years) but how black hair is looked at, the decisions and racism of how to wear it when at school, work, interviews. I hate that it is an issue, but it's getting better. One of my daughters is natural and one still relaxes hers but it's their choice. I still hear racist comments regarding the one who is natural but it's one person at a time in educating how unfair and racist it is to judge her that way. 

[AmandaPanda]

Please keep discussion in this thread connected to events of the actual episode. We have a number of other threads to discuss topics tangentially related to the episode. For instance, the discussion of black haircare products would fit in perfectly in the This Is Our Social & Cultural Issues Thread. 

[candall]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:43 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I did enjoy seeing Rebecca calmly and honestly reveal her feelings about how her mom treated Randall and how she wasn't going to tolerate it anymore.  GOOD for her.  I believed it and it inspired me in my personal life. I've had something similar with my senior parents for awhile and had thought just ignoring it might be better, but NOOOO.  I am a forthright person and I'm taking Rebecca's example to heart.  The right thing is always the right thing. 

You go, Grrrrl.

*************************

Quote

You can't get shingles unless you have had chicken pox. Shingles is borne from the virus being in your system.

Public Service Announcement:  there's a shingles vaccine. 

I've seen "worst case" shingles up close and personal--weeping blisters, weeks turning to months of excruciating pain, cranial nerves affected so possibility of blindness.  Not generally a fan of conventional medicine, I was beating down the doctor's door for a shingles vaccination the day I heard it existed.

 

ETA:  Sorry, tangential.  PSA, though, PSA!

Edited October 20, 2017 by candall
Tangentiality

[Court]

Deja looks 12/13 to me. 

I had all my ultrasound at 6 weeks for 4 pregnancies. 

I enjoyed this episode the most, I think. 

[General Days]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:22 AM, Scarlett45 said:

While I don't agree, I understand why Rebecca the behavior slide as long as she did. That is her mother and the behavior wasn't directly mean or spiteful or cruel. Racism and colorism exists between family members and yeah it can be really painful for everyone involved. But I'm glad Rebecca stood up for her son. 

 

I think Rebecca didn't let it slide so much as she didn't confront. During this episode's confrontation with her mother, she said something about how this is why they don't visit her (or haven't seen, or avoid, or whatever) the mother any more. So they took the passive-aggressive approach, but they stopped subjecting Randall to it (and Rebecca and the whole family to her mother's behavior in general).  If there hadn't been the racism in this episode, I would have looked forward to Rebecca trying a new approach with her mom, which is what I thought she was starting to do, when she let her mother make the soup. 

 

On 10/18/2017 at 10:32 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Almost forgot to mention how Toby, who I am normally okay with, tries to sabotage Kate.  CLASSIC attempt to distract her and MISINFORM her.  It's common for people who are not well read about nutrition to warp the facts about food.  I'm not sure what diet he's talking about where muffins are okay.  And just because a food item is organic and has natural ingredients, doesn't make it low calorie or healthy.  HOW can you be engaged to a morbidly obese person and not educate yourself on nutrition and eating disorders?  I suppose it's common IRL, so, I have to accept that Toby is that way.  Hmm....I won't like it though. 

 

He didn't say anything about it being organic. He said, "I made it with whole wheat, unsweetened almond milk, and grape seed oil." I don't think he was trying to sabotage her. I think he lives there and made a batch of healthier-than-regular muffins for himself and, sure, her if she wanted. I thought of it more like Kate's oatmeal and egg white "pancake," but edible. He then saw her fixating on it (she's the one that moved it to in front of the TV she was exercising in front of), saw that she wasn't eating and was over-exercising, because she was freaked out that she wouldn't fit into the dress (which she also had laid across the couch). He didn't know all of the reasons why she was freaked out (i.e. she was afraid the pregnancy was going to be a problem). Dieting people, even obese people, need to eat and even needs carbs. Heck, even diabetics need carbs. And dieters need to eat food which tastes good and is satisfying, so they don't chuck the whole diet out of discouragement.
 

On 10/18/2017 at 10:37 AM, Blakeston said:

I have to call bullshit on the grandmother's claim that she's been trying. If she's been trying, why didn't she spare a second earlier in the episode to look at Randall's awesome-sounding Rube Goldberg machine?

I think her idea of "trying" was remembering to bring a gift for him as well as the "twins," and stopping herself from using the n-word in his presence.

 

I agree about the Rube Goldberg machine. I'm not a grandparent yet, but I can't even imagine not going to see the neighbor's kid Rube Goldberg machine if he asked me to. That said, I don't think Rebecca's mother would be the kind to use the "N" word. I don't think she even considered herself racist (or let herself consider it) until Rebecca called her out on her shit.

There are different manifestations and levels of racism. The easy ones to call out are the MLK Killers, the N-word users, and the tiki-torch marchers.  Soft racism is harder to call out, which can make it more insidious. We'd all (I hope) be outraged if someone burnt a cross on our black neighbor's lawn. We'd be disappointed if every gift white adult A gave black child B was a basketball (that was pretty gross for 1990, Mrs. Rebecca's Mom) and we'd probably say something if our relationship with white adult A mattered, and if white adult A was going to remain in our child's life. We'd be unsure what to do, if we just perceived a white adult's discomfort around our black child, but saw white adult A trying to suck it up, while making a mental note to spend less time with white adult A, because life is too short to be with people who need to check their issues. 

Randall could/may have been almost double-taboo to Rebecca's mother.  And I'll front-load that both taboos are ugly. I'm not excusing her. I'm trying to say that she's a different kind of racist than the N-word slinging racists.

Some people didn't used to tell their kids they were adopted, and the accepted/stated rationale was that they didn't want the kids to be ashamed of being "bastards."  BUT... they truthfully also didn't openly discuss their children's adoptions with other adults because they too had some shame that the kids were "illegitimate." Yes. All of this is gross.

Now the big three were born a little bit after that era, but not so far after that Rebecca's mother's head wouldn't still be there. It would have been all around her for most of her life.  Now add on that she's a woman who had enough money to have a maid when her kids were small. Now her daughter has a black child. While I don't imagine her using the "N" word, even at home, I do imagine her clutching her pearls and making sure she mentions as often as possible that Jack and Rebecca adopted that child when their other baby died, so that no one thought her daughter conceived a black baby out of wedlock.
 

On 10/18/2017 at 11:01 AM, CaughtOnTape said:

Oh good.  Kate's pregnant.  So she can pass on all of her victim crap to her kid.

 

Haven't humans been passing on our [adjective here] crap to our progeny since we came into being?

 

On 10/18/2017 at 0:38 PM, Calamity Jane said:

Also, whether or not it's true I have no idea, the idea everyone had was that it was better to have those diseases as a child than as an adult, so our parents did try to have us exposed if anything was going around.  

 

Yes this, and there is truth to it. A lot of viruses that are annoyances to children are much harder on adults. Chicken Pox is one. My cousins got Chicken Pox at the regular age. Their mother got them in her 30s, when her four kids did. She was dangerously ill.

 

On 10/18/2017 at 2:46 PM, UBT said:

Randall screwed up with Deja. Telling her that her hair is beautiful and then that you had a nervous breakdown and inviting her to do something alone with him— she sees it as a threat.  

Obviously she doesn’t feel safe with men. She doesn’t trust Randall. Who knows what her other experiences have been in foster care or maybe relatives or her mother’s boyfriends. I think she cut the braids to attempt to keep herself safe. 

 

I think the story could go that way (I kind of hope it doesn't, because the real world is hard enough, I want some respite in TV). She at least fears men, because she was afraid in the earlier episode, when Randall burst in the room after Beth found the cigarettes in Deja's bag. That said, I do think Deja was also just plain angry and disappointed that after having a very meaningful connection with Beth, Beth "betrayed" her. Even if Deja hasn't been sexually abused, she probably hasn't had a lot of good men in her life. If/since her bio mom is troubled, there were probably some real losers in her life. 

 

On 10/18/2017 at 11:38 PM, Driad said:

I winced at that. At that time, did "special" mean a kid who should be in a "special" class? Not that Grandma is likely to be up on what kids know.

 

Yes and no. I don't think "special" was overly associated with someone with intellectual disabilities in 1990. It wouldn't have been the first thing you thought of when you heard the word.

 

13 hours ago, marceline said:

Slightly OT but my white coworker just came into my office to ask all kinds of questions about black hair care because of this show so congrats "This Is Us" you are certainly broadening perspectives. ;-)

 

That's awesome. It was such a beautiful scene. I could only personally connect as a woman and mother. It apparently hit your coworker the same way. How did you feel when you were watching the scene? Not that I expect you to be our spokesmodel of color. From the outside, I thought it was good enough that I wondered if they have black women on the writing team (I don't know who writes for the show other than Fogelman). 

 

9 hours ago, CarolMK said:

Is the actress who plays Kate actually pregnant and they're writing it into the story? Just wondering. I'm not so sure that she is morbidly obese. The camera always makes people look heavier. I remember years ago when Roseanne had her show that people greatly overestimated her actual weight. I'd guess that the actress weighs no more than 230-240 at the most.  It's well within the normal range of being able to get pregnant. 

I don't mind the story line of the foster daughter but I find myself wishing that Randall and Beth had more stories taking place with their own children rather than a foster one. It's very hard to follow up last season's relationship of William with Randall but I wouldn't mind the focus being their own kids instead of so much on another child. 

 

I'm 5'5" and have been 200 lbs. I was still wearing a US size 14 when I was that big, but my weight was pretty evenly distributed, there was just too much of it. I'm 125 now and have been for eight years and didn't grow up overweight, so it's another kettle of (deep fried) fish than Kate/Chrissy. That said, there's no way she's 230 to 240. At her heaviest on the show, I would have pegged her as 400. I wouldn't believe anything less than 350 at her heaviest, thus far.

 

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Thank you, and that is amazing.  I'm guessing poppy seed is a bit of hyperbole then, I can't imagine seeing something within a poppyseed, or even seeing a poppy seed in there.  But I'm always behind the eight ball on technology. 

 

I don't think they would have detected a heart beat, even on the ultrasound at poppy seed size. I forget the name of the poster who is an OB/GYN. But Dr. Poster, is that correct? I think lentil size is about when you'd see. I had bleeding early on in a pregnancy. When my doc did an ultrasound, it looked like a beating tear drop (so it was probably lentil sized and yes, there was a heartbeat).
 

7 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

No, she's got to be at least 300, maybe 350. I'm 230, and yes I know I'm fat. But I can still sit in regular chairs,  movie seats, stadiums, airplanes, etc, people aren't taken aback by my appearance, that kind of thing. I just look like your average overweight woman.

 

Agreed.

 

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

I tried looking it up, and I have no idea if there was any verification to this, but one website had her listed as 399 pounds and another says she weighs almost 400 pounds.  So, two different, but equally unverified sources have the same weight, for whatever that is worth.  They also both have her height at 5' 3".

 

That sounds right to me. I think Chrissy's weight is particularly situated around her middle, even for a woman of her size. So her arms and legs look like an average overweight woman's, from armpit to groin is where it all sits. Bodies are weird, man. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by General Days

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, General Days said:

I think the story could go that way (I kind of hope it doesn't, because the real world is hard enough, I want some respite in TV). She at least fears men, because she was afraid in the earlier episode, when Randall burst in the room after Beth found the cigarettes in Deja's bag. That said, I do think Deja was also just plain angry and disappointed that after having a very meaningful connection with Beth, Beth "betrayed" her. Even if Deja hasn't been sexually abused, she probably hasn't had a lot of good men in her life. If/since her bio mom is troubled, there were probably some real losers in her life. 

I think there's a suggestion of fear of Randall in a sexual assault kind of way in that she didn't need much arm-twisting to stay in the little girls' room and sleep in the chair that first night.  Coupled with cutting off her hair, they might be going there.  She might expect it until proven otherwise.

[sasha206]

On 10/18/2017 at 0:06 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I think the video was a little TOO good to be the original VHS tape. I remember 90s filming, and that's too good of quality. Which is why I assume Kate made it into a DVD instead.

Though I still have a VCR in my basement. I'm pretty sure it still works. 

Oh yeah, it bothers me too. I'm surprised, though, that this particular episode didn't bother me. I was surprisingly fine with his behaviour, and now I'm questioning myself as to why I'm cool with Toby.

YES.  That stood out to me as well.  

And of course, I'm just so sick of Jack being a damn near saint with a drinking problem.  

[SunnyBeBe]

After touting the benefits of HIS special muffins, Kate is the one who commented that they were organic. That was my take on it.  None of those things  really mean they would fit into the food plan for a person's with Kate's morbid obesity. 

[sasha206]

On 10/19/2017 at 4:20 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA. I remember when I was a kid, I saw some police drama episode where a girl had been raped. Shortly afterward, it was her birthday and her mom said, "Happy birthday to my big beautiful girl!" The girl ran out of the room and the mom found her cutting off her hair. When her mom asked why, the girl said, "I don't want to be big. I don't want to be beautiful." She thought that by cutting her hair and making herself less attractive, she would protect herself from being raped again. Poor Deja was probably subsconsciously doing the same thing. Not only was she reacting to Randall's compliment but she was also punishing Beth for blabbing to Randall. Two for one!

When he was really insistent on using his approach rather than Beth's about Deja's hair, I thought that maybe he should let Beth take the lead on this instead of letting his ego get in the way. The reason was not because Beth had been the stay at home mom for longer, as he thought though. Even though Randall knows how to take care of his girls' hair, that's not quite the same as being a black woman talking to a black girl about her hair. That's not a criticism of Randall as a parent or anything. He has the knowledge but Beth has lived with her hair for her whole life so she can probably relate a lot more to Deja about it.

Sometimes they do more tests with high risk pregnancies (and Kate's would be considered high risk due to her weight). The doctor said that the baby had grown from a poppy seed to a lentil since the last time she saw Kate. A friend of mine had a high risk pregnancy so she had an ultrasound when the baby was poppy seed sized (which led to her referring to the baby as "Poppy" for the duration of her pregnancy).

Sure, insecurity is normal. Acting on it is a dick move and what moves you over into jealousy. It's one thing to think, "My wife thinks this actor is hot and I am not as attractive." It's another thing to veto every movie starring an actor who she finds attractive. Are you only going to watch movies with ugly actors for the rest of your life? On top of that, he also vetoed a movie she wanted to see without any mention of the actors being hot. What's left that's acceptable to watch, Jealous Jack?

Also, maybe Jack it's time to wash your fucking hair, get it cut, and shave your mustache.  

I'm surprised This Is Us didn't weave in Randall having a discussion with Deja about his dad having shitty hair too. They could've had some charming story about why Jack decided to cut his hair after nearly dying in a grease fire.  And because he's such a great dad, gave his kids the clippers and hilarity ensued.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, General Days said:

 

I think Rebecca didn't let it slide so much as she didn't confront. During this episode's confrontation with her mother, she said something about how this is why they don't visit her (or haven't seen, or avoid, or whatever) the mother any more. So they took the passive-aggressive approach, but they stopped subjecting Randall to it (and Rebecca and the whole family to her mother's behavior in general).  If there hadn't been the racism in this episode, I would have looked forward to Rebecca trying a new approach with her mom, which is what I thought she was starting to do, when she let her mother make the soup.

I agree about the Rube Goldberg machine. I'm not a grandparent yet, but I can't even imagine not going to see the neighbor's kid Rube Goldberg machine if he asked me to. That said, I don't think Rebecca's mother would be the kind to use the "N" word. I don't think she even considered herself racist (or let herself consider it) until Rebecca called her out on her shit.

Haven't humans been passing on our [adjective here] crap to our progeny since we came into being?

I must admit, I'm a little weak on the precise meaning of passive-aggressive, since it gets bandied around a lot (kind of like "ironic"), but I thought Rebecca having her mother do the soup was more a passive-aggressive "f*** you" than a new approach.

I agree about the Rube Goldberg machine. Your grandson or not, it's just flat out rude.

Yes, the crap gets passed down. I have a friend who I thought was overly anxious and smothering of her child - then I met her mother and realized that she was actually a much milder version. I try very hard to be self-aware and stop some of the patterns of my parents' crap - but it's easier said than done. Life doesn't have a scriptwriter or safety net.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

I must admit, I'm a little weak on the precise meaning of passive-aggressive, since it gets bandied around a lot (kind of like "ironic"), but I thought Rebecca having her mother do the soup was more a passive-aggressive "f*** you" than a new approach. 

I don't know that I would go that far.  I think she was just like, it's easier for her to make the soup than for her to yell at me about how I'm making it wrong.

[Clanstarling]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't know that I would go that far.  I think she was just like, it's easier for her to make the soup than for her to yell at me about how I'm making it wrong.

There I go, reading my own would be response into Rebecca's. LOL.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I thought Rebecca having her mother do the soup was more a passive-aggressive "f*** you" than a new approach.

Oh that's what I thought, too.  It definitely struck me as, "Okay then!  Since you have so much advice and you're so sure you're the world's expert on soup, you can darn well make it yourself!" 

[Jillybean]

My on-screen guide episode description for next week says, in part, "Kate surprises Toby at work." So maybe his profession will be revealed!

[Guest]

We know he's in IT.   

[Bean421]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think there's a suggestion of fear of Randall in a sexual assault kind of way in that she didn't need much arm-twisting to stay in the little girls' room and sleep in the chair that first night.  Coupled with cutting off her hair, they might be going there.  She might expect it until proven otherwise.

This has been my fear since I saw the preview where Deja was introduced. I really don't want to see it go that route, but I really think they are laying the groundwork for it. Just having Randall be so tone deaf to her boundaries, not that he's done anything inappropriate, but she clearly feels uncomfortable when he tries too hard to engage her. I wish they'd talk about how a traumatized teen is different than their well-adjusted, school age children. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 10/18/2017 at 5:23 PM, NutMeg said:

I cringed when Randall offered to do Deja's hair. Doesn't help that she looks like a teenager and has already showed that her instinctive reaction to him is fear. 

Of course it's followed up with him showing up in her room to comment on her hairstyle. At this point, I don't know if the writers are extremely clever with all these cringy moments that we know will be read badly by Deja while we also know that it's just Randall being his usual self-centred, clueless self and not being a creep, or if they are somewhat trying to say that what looks bad isn't always what it looks like it is. I admit that the news these past two weeks are colouring how I am seeing this.

Not helping either? Jack's vetoing any movie casting a "hot" male movie star, and Toby once again sabotaging Kate's intention to lose weight - I would get his concern if she was training for a triathlon, but the exercise she was doing was very, very, very mild, just slightly more taxing than walking along the room.

Is there any woman in the writing room?

There may be one, because the scene with Beth and Deja was fabulous. Can we have more of these small moments and less of the showboating, please?

I think I've fallen out of love with this show. We're still friends and all, and I like it well enough, but as a great lady sang, "The Thrill Is Gone".      

Vera Huburt is an amazing writer for TIU and won a prestigious award for last season's episode "The Trip". 

[laurakaye]

6 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I'm surprised This Is Us didn't weave in Randall having a discussion with Deja about his dad having shitty hair too. They could've had some charming story about why Jack decided to cut his hair after nearly dying in a grease fire.  And because he's such a great dad, gave his kids the clippers and hilarity ensued.

How quickly can you get your resume to Dan Fogelman?

 

3 hours ago, Jillybean said:

My on-screen guide episode description for next week says, in part, "Kate surprises Toby at work." So maybe his profession will be revealed!

So...Kate surprises Toby in their apartment?

Edited October 20, 2017 by laurakaye

[dju]

On 20/10/2017 at 4:58 AM, Blakeston said:

I, too, saw the Jack/Rebecca conversation in the video store to be silly banter more than anything else. I didn't interpret it as Jack actually forbidding Rebecca from watching anything with an actor she might find attractive.

When she expressed her appreciation for Patrick Swayze, and he said, "vetoed," she responded by laughing and playfully shoving him. I took the exchange as a reminder that Jack has some insecurities, but not as a red flag suggesting abuse or huge control issues.

 

On 19/10/2017 at 7:20 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Sure, insecurity is normal. Acting on it is a dick move and what moves you over into jealousy. It's one thing to think, "My wife thinks this actor is hot and I am not as attractive." It's another thing to veto every movie starring an actor who she finds attractive. Are you only going to watch movies with ugly actors for the rest of your life? On top of that, he also vetoed a movie she wanted to see without any mention of the actors being hot. What's left that's acceptable to watch, Jealous Jack?

 

 

It's really one of those, 'the way you interpret this is incredibly subjective' situations, and for being so short it should be fairly inconsequential, but I always think it's a little problematic, especially if brief, when a moment/scene doesn't universally nail the landing in terms of what the utility of it was. And that there's a case to make for why it didn't. If we were supposed to interpret it as meaningless, innocent banter, it was way too unbalanced for me and they would've ended up going with the movie she showed harmless, shallow interest in. That's a pretty significant insecurity, as ElectricBoogaloo points out if you don't want your wife watching a film because she finds the male protagonist attractive, like, that's the red flag for me. But I actually agree, despite that, it does have that harmless, silly, vibe to it until he says his 'what is it with you today?' line. Milo delivers that line without any trace of humour and is looking right over at her as he delivers it without any trace of humour, imo, he's coming pretty close to chastising her. Because the execution of the line wouldn't make any sense if the utility of it is to be silly and/or playful. He's shutting down the possibility of her making more remarks while making it clear that he didn't like the previous remarks. It has an edge to it that his other quips didn't. The moment went from having a tonality of, 'haha let's not watch a film just because you find the actor hot' to then being 'srsly? stop. right now'. Again, I want to make it clear that this moment is so brief it's stupid, and that it's incredibly subjective, the intensity to which I am scrutinizing his behaviour is perhaps unfair but it stood out to me, all the same, and it made me feel uncomfortable, all the same. 

[Happytobehere]

On 10/17/2017 at 10:13 PM, Straycat80 said:

'Did Grandma shoot him'? I love 10 year old Randall! 

I'm glad Kate is pregnant. I'm tired of her story focusing on her weight and low self esteem.  

I can see her pregnancy being all about her weight.  The health issues surrounding her size and pregnancy; being bed-ridden because of her size and possibly worst of all, not being able to carry to them because of her weight.

[Guest]

The part about the video store convo that bugged me was mainly that Rebecca has repeatedly asked to rent Broadcast News and apparently Jack has repeatedly said no.  They were laughing about it but that's the 1950s-level patriarchal subtext they always write for this pair.  

[Cardie]

13 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Oh that's what I thought, too.  It definitely struck me as, "Okay then!  Since you have so much advice and you're so sure you're the world's expert on soup, you can darn well make it yourself!" 

To me, it was her Mom being passive aggressive, in an "I don't want to interfere but . . ." way. Of course, if the Mom was thoroughly passive-aggressive she would have refused to take over, said that Rebecca can of course cook it just fine, then continue making helpful suggestions. Everyone in our family was passive-aggressive and this was how conversations would go.  

[MoonMountain]

17 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I must admit, I'm a little weak on the precise meaning of passive-aggressive, since it gets bandied around a lot (kind of like "ironic"), but I thought Rebecca having her mother do the soup was more a passive-aggressive "f*** you" than a new approach.

 

I don't mean to go off-topic, but I totally agree with this statement. Whenever someone says it, I'm always like, "I don't think that means what you think it means." But then I realize I don't really know entirely what it means either. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

To me, it was her Mom being passive aggressive, in an "I don't want to interfere but . . ." way. Of course, if the Mom was thoroughly passive-aggressive she would have refused to take over, said that Rebecca can of course cook it just fine, then continue making helpful suggestions. Everyone in our family was passive-aggressive and this was how conversations would go.  

Oh for sure, Cardie!  That's how I thought it would have gone down with the Mom being all huffy and, "I was only trying to help!" as soon as Rebecca bristled under the criticism.

-----------

I'm not sure what passive aggressive means either, but I think it's pretty much anything non-confrontational but meant to make the other person feel bad.  I would say Kate is a master at this.  Floating around Toby, refusing eye contact, making him feel he's in the wrong, but not telling him what it is she's worried about.

Edited October 21, 2017 by JudyObscure