S02.E03: Déjà Vu

[candall]

There's so much dross on tv now, all dumbed down for the short attention span.  I'm so impressed that these people spent an entire season developing the characters and laying the groundwork and now they trust their audience enough to slip around in time, showing us scenes that relate to each other, even though the scenes might include different characters and/or different actors playing those characters.

Such a complex show--what a treat.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[ans13]

In tonight’s episode what is the song that's playing when Jack and Rebecca find the dog? I think it mentioned something about keeping time? 

[movingtargetgal]

28 minutes ago, Superpole2000 said:

I liked this more than the first two episodes this season. Well, "liked" is a bit inaccurate. Almost every scene was still a downer. But I liked this episode more because the characters seemed more likable. The drama was coming from good characters experiencing difficult situations rather than annoying characters creating drama from doing dumb things. I hope the writers give us more of this.

This is why this show is so wonderful.  All the characters are good and decent people who love each other flaws and all.  I love how supportive the Big Three are of each other.  They have experienced a massive trauma at a young age.  Jack's death was an unimaginable blow to them and it is clear that the Big Three and Rebecca are still grieving Jack.  They have gone on with their lives but there is a hole in their hearts because of losing Jack.  The drama in this show comes from the emotional journey of the Pearsons.  

[methodwriter85]

40 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

Not sure about the sipping wine part, but Elaine Benes on "Seinfeld" noshed on big salads back in the 90s. And while watching that scene, I couldn't help feeling self conscious for the actors. I'd be worrying about lettuce getting caught between my teeth.

I really don't see how eating al fresco on a patio while eating a salad and sipping wine would be all that modern. Lots of American public buildings in the 1960's and 1970's were built with patios and outdoor tables/chairs. And in the 90's wasn't there the whole craze going on about Napa Valley and American wines finally getting their due? The Parent Trap movie referenced Napa Valley being a cool place known for its wines that people all over adored. And wouldn't it make sense that someone like Rebecca who is very aware of weight gain would probably live on salads? There's a joke in the movie Pleasantville where Reese Witherspoon, who is trapped with Toby Maquire in a 50's sitcom, orders an Evian water and a salad, purely because it was very contemporary 90's thing to do.

Now, if Rebecca and Miguel's wife were sipping on micro brew beers while enjoying some foraged greens at a localvore restaurant, I could see the modernity.

[nwark3]

24 minutes ago, ans13 said:

In tonight’s episode what is the song that's playing when Jack and Rebecca find the dog? I think it mentioned something about keeping time? 

If You Need To, Keep Time On Me” by Fleet Foxes https://open.spotify.com/track/7d0XkI4iJ32nxeFAHFXbLQ

[candall]

28 minutes ago, ans13 said:

In tonight’s episode what is the song that's playing when Jack and Rebecca find the dog? I think it mentioned something about keeping time? 

I'm SO disappointed you didn't ask about the song when they were about to make out in the car.  It was grit in my brain gears for an hour before I finally came up with "Why Judy Why" from Billy Joel's first album.  Come on, you wanted to know that, too, didn't you??

I never thought that I would need, need a friend . . .
 

[pennben]

This episode didn't work as well for me as the first two this season.  For whatever reason, maybe just my mood this evening, it felt disjointed overall, yet rushed here and there, and ultimately like the show is just folding in on itself in telling the story of Jack's death and all of what it meant and the present stories are meant to be about the past and not really about what's going on now with the characters, they are just anecdotes to explain the past.

I'm of the view that we just need to get past the mystery of Jack's death, then we'll all understand the shockwaves sent through the family, and rather than all the stories folding inward, as clues to the past, they can be stories going forward informed by the past, with a better balance of significance between past events and present time going forward.

I realize I don't even fully know what I mean here, but I spent time typing it out, so I'm leaving it:)  

[debraran]

I think the commercials if you watch that way, make it worse. This type of show loses momentum and emotion when it cuts to a Cilias commercial (or whatever) every 6 minutes.

I liked Kate with Sly, it was a normal but exciting moment for her, no weight issues, no real drama, just fun. It actually seemed like she handled talking about her Dad better than Kevin. As an actor to be thrown as much as he was, you know something is coming down the pike.

How long did the letter say that Deja's mom would be away or it just said it was going to be a felony? I missed that.  If she stays, they can have her for a long time and then the mother gets out and wants her back or something dramatic.  I might be wrong of course, but I see shopping trips with Beth, getting her hair done,  Deja hating and liking some things in her new home and then time passes and she visits her Mom who gets paranoid at her changes, maybe when she gets out, she wants to take her back or doesn't want her, the writing for this one can be very good.

Edited October 11, 2017 by debraran

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The teen actors are so great. Not only can you see the resemblance to the adult actors in their mannerisms, but they are so natural. When I see teen actors, I usually expect Disney level acting skills so they have been surprisingly impressive. Heh, coincidentally, one of the exceptions to my Disney teen acting skills is My So-Called Life, so I wanted to high five Jack for that reference. I guess that means we're definitely in 1994-1995 now. 

Teen Kate is really good with her facial expressions. Even though Teen Kevin didn't have many lines in this episode, he was really good too. First he was the typical teenage brother talking about hot singers, but it was clear at the park and later at home that he was just as concerned about Randall as Kate was. Even though teen Randall doesn't look as similar to his adult counterpart as teen Kate, he totally embodies adult Randall. I can totally see how teen Randall with his nervous/shy demeanor grew up to be adult Randall.

Loved that we had no Toby or Sophie this week. I actually don't mind Sophie but I prefer the focus of Kate and Kevin's stories not to be their love lives. It is not surprising at all that Kevin has been squashing his grief about Jack's death since it happened. Everyone deals with death differently, but if you don't deal with it at all, it's going to pop up eventually.

I'm normally not a huge fan of stunt casting (The Good Wife was one of the few shows that regularly brought in famous guest stars seamlessly almost every week), but I'm okay with the way they set up the Sylvester Stallone appearance. I'd rather have them do it like this (with him playing himself on the set of Kevin's movie) than creating a whole character who's shoehorned into the plot). He was very sweet with Kate. I'm not a celebrity but I imagine that it's much easier to have a conversation like that than to deal with a fawning fan who wants to take a selfie while you're trying to have dinner at a restaurant.

I am glad that the writers are not going the easy route with the foster kid storyline. It's not like bringing home a puppy. This is a human being who has been taken away from her family and is being forced to live with strangers. Of course that's going to be an adjustment for anyone, let alone a kid. I loved that Deja knew to go to Tess and Annie for the real scoop on Randall and Beth.

Randall's speech to Beth about how everything that was supposed to be hard was actually easy for him was such a classic overachiever problem. I think for people like Randall who find things come easily to them, it's a huge wake up call when they finally encounter something that isn't a breeze. The later in life it happens, the more shocking it is for them. I'm glad that Randall recognized that fostering Deja will not be as easy as all the other things in life that were so easy for him. Yes, preparation always helps, but there is no one thing that is going to magically make this process easy for everyone. Loved when the social worker told him not to have an expectations for what will happen on any one day and then said, "That's not really you, is it?" Ha!

I really felt for Rebecca and Jack trying to reconnect while dealing with his recovery. They are both going through a lot and I'm sure that it's made even harder by the fact that they both feel very alone right now. Even though their date didn't turn out exactly the way Rebecca had planned, it was nice to see them finally have a moment where they felt connected again.

[debraran]

8 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really felt for Rebecca and Jack trying to reconnect while dealing with his recovery. They are both going through a lot and I'm sure that it's made even harder by the fact that they both feel very alone right now. Even though their date didn't turn out exactly the way Rebecca had planned, it was nice to see them finally have a moment where they felt connected again.

I felt her friends advice wasn't good because she didn't know what Jack was going through and having Rebecca feel sex was a cure for her issues wasn't on target. Jack is under a lot of stress, all his energy is in not slipping and opening up, just being a rock for him when needed, supporting him, is most important.

Miguels children will be brought in later, so I suppose mentioning Amber was a slight introduction to one.

[dju]

3 hours ago, pennben said:

This episode didn't work as well for me as the first two this season.  For whatever reason, maybe just my mood this evening, it felt disjointed overall, yet rushed here and there, and ultimately like the show is just folding in on itself in telling the story of Jack's death and all of what it meant and the present stories are meant to be about the past and not really about what's going on now with the characters, they are just anecdotes to explain the past.

I'm of the view that we just need to get past the mystery of Jack's death, then we'll all understand the shockwaves sent through the family, and rather than all the stories folding inward, as clues to the past, they can be stories going forward informed by the past, with a better balance of significance between past events and present time going forward.

I realize I don't even fully know what I mean here, but I spent time typing it out, so I'm leaving it:)  

While I did have moments I enjoyed, I think you have in some part articulated my problem/s with this episode.  That we're hovering intensely and so continuously on Jack's death and the pre-death era is starting to create almost a sense of anxiety, or restlessness for me whenever I'm watching Milo as a very much still alive Jack on screen acutely knowing he's going to die very soon. It doesn't take me out of his scenes, but I do not appreciate them in the way I probably should be because as you said pennben, this season is developing that folding inward feeling towards his death - it feels claustrophobic and rushed and I don't think it needs to feel that way.

But to counter everything I just said, I think Milo and Mandy are doing a beautifully compelling job at portraying the shift of distance and unknowingness between Jack and Rebecca. They were really uncomfortable to watch together and their chemistry felt believably different while still remaining intact for me. I was really impressed.

Edited October 11, 2017 by dju

[Jillybean]

I like Kate so much better when Toby isn't around. He really brings out the worst in her.

[DeepPoet117]

If Deja really has spent her life in and out of foster care, Randall's speech about how he was adopted as an infant to an awesome family should have been met with a lot more scorn, imo. And then to immediately go into telling her that her mom wouldn't be getting out of jail anytime soon? A bit not good, Randall. 

Kevin dealing with his grief about his dad really hit close to home. Kudos to Justin for that. I'm hesitant about the pill storyline, but it makes sense that there would be an addiction storyline with one of the twins since there is a genetic connection with addiction.

I loved Kate this episode. Her excitement about meeting Sly was so fun to watch!

[MyAimIsTrue]

Any time William makes an appearance I'm happy, and his scene with Annie was so touching.  This show really knocked it out of the park in finding great child actors.

The foster child story worried me in the sense that I was afraid it would be sunshine and unicorns way too soon.  This will need to unfold over time and I'm glad the show looks as if that will be the case.  Kudos to the young actress playing Deja as I could feel her fear and her pain.

What the hell is wrong with Sly Stallone's face?

[sadiegirl1999]

1 minute ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

What the hell is wrong with Sly Stallone's face?

THIS!

I couldn't focus on anything else, esp in the food tent (or something?) his face almost looked transparent. It was creepy!

Also, I get that Stallone is an icon and a connection to Jack, but I don't like stunt casting.

It's jarring to me and takes me out of the moment.

[Haleth]

Beautiful.  As someone who can't stand kid actors I have to admit all the children in this show are wonderful, from Tess and Annie to the variously aged Big 3, and now Deja.  (I wonder if it's the same casting crew that did Fri Night Lights since they too always had outstanding young talent.)  I hope the Deja storyline doesn't become too heavy handed.  Adding an (almost) teenage girl to the family is hard enough, but one carrying a lot of baggage filled with pain and resentment and fear is going to be even more of a challenge.  But of course Beth and Randall are perfect and will instinctively know how to get over the rough times.  (Not a criticism of the writing as long as there isn't a Very Special Christmas Episode where everything comes together.)

Great episode for Justin Hartley.  My stomach dropped when he had such problems with the movie dialog and then smacked his bad knee.  I was afraid he'd lose the role.  Yeah, probably an addiction storyline coming up.  My guess as to why he has trouble dealing with Jack's death is because he was out partying when it happened and couldn't be reached by his family.  Everyone else was grieving while he was out having fun.  (Similar thing happened to me.)  Lots of guilt.

Loved that teen Kate and Kevin went to the park with Randall.  And I love that Randall was smart enough to immediately sense a scam.

[Jillybean]

10 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Great episode for Justin Hartley.  My stomach dropped when he had such problems with the movie dialog and then smacked his bad knee.  I was afraid he'd lose the role.  Yeah, probably an addiction storyline coming up.  My guess as to why he has trouble dealing with Jack's death is because he was out partying when it happened and couldn't be reached by his family.  Everyone else was grieving while he was out having fun.  (Similar thing happened to me.)  Lots of guilt.

I'm wondering also if he may have had an argument with Jack before he died, and carries guilt from his last words to Jack being angry ones. 

[NeverLate]

7 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

This is why this show is so wonderful.  All the characters are good and decent people who love each other flaws and all.  I love how supportive the Big Three are of each other.  They have experienced a massive trauma at a young age.  Jack's death was an unimaginable blow to them and it is clear that the Big Three and Rebecca are still grieving Jack.  They have gone on with their lives but there is a hole in their hearts because of losing Jack.  The drama in this show comes from the emotional journey of the Pearsons.  

Well said. That's what I love, they are all flawed individuals, no perfect families. I've said that from the start.

I like having other individuals act with them, Sophie and Toby, it just adds another layer.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, DeepPoet117 said:

If Deja really has spent her life in and out of foster care, Randall's speech about how he was adopted as an infant to an awesome family should have been met with a lot more scorn, imo. And then to immediately go into telling her that her mom wouldn't be getting out of jail anytime soon? A bit not good, Randall. 

I thought it was a terrible move for Randall and Beth to be the ones to break it to Deja that her mother is probably getting a serious prison sentence, so soon after she arrives at their house.

[mtlchick]

Quote

Also, I get that Stallone is an icon and a connection to Jack, but I don't like stunt casting.

Oddly enough, the producers asked Milo if he could give Stallone a call to do the part since Milo played his son in Rocky Balboa. 

As for Kevin, my current thought is: he was a high school football star, destined to be the "next big thing" until he busted his knee weeks before his dad passed on and relied on pain medication for both his physical and mental anguish. Bringing up the issues with his dad today had him lose focus, screw up his knee and potentially relapsing. 

[mansfolly]

Agreed, this was a good episode.

I too am glad they are giving Kevin a meatier and emotional storyline. I'm glad they are not addressing all his issues in one episode and hopefully will allow him to build up to and work out his emotions regarding his father. Sad to see indications of pill addiction/addition like dad.

Yes, Sly's face is a distraction to say the least.

I am concerned that the (strung out?) woman who pretended to be Randall's mom will somehow return to the storyline. She was blown off and now has Randalls' home address. Is she the fire starter?

Love Jack and Rebecca's scenes this episode. Kate has a nice life....can I get a job (?) like hers? 

I agree Deja's possessions should not have been handled by Randall's wife.  His kids seem to be as deep as he is. I liked the memory with his young daughter and William.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Any time William makes an appearance I'm happy, and his scene with Annie was so touching.  This show really knocked it out of the park in finding great child actors.

The foster child story worried me in the sense that I was afraid it would be sunshine and unicorns way too soon.  This will need to unfold over time and I'm glad the show looks as if that will be the case.  Kudos to the young actress playing Deja as I could feel her fear and her pain.

What the hell is wrong with Sly Stallone's face?

My husband said the same thing about Sly's face.  I think he's had stuff done. 

I'm hoping that the foster child won't...you know...get the Pearson kids into...trouble.  I don't think Deja's been in a foster home quite like the Pearsons before. 

[bichonblitz]

Sometimes this show is so damn preachy. They don't always have to explain themselves to death. 

[mansfolly]

Quote

"I love it when you cook your feelings!"  I need to start a notebook with my favorite lines from the show.

Yeah, I caught that too. Great line! (Tina Fey: I eat my feelings.)

[watcher1006]

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

This was a great episode.  But, I still hate the disconnect between Kate/Kevin and Randall.  When Randall was talking to Deja, I was afraid that it was just going to be fine because Randall and Beth were just the bestest foster parents ever.  I was glad to see the show isn't going to take the easy way out.  

I have never been a social worker but I wonder a  bit about the criteria for foster placement. Is it the best idea to place a troubled teen or tween from a difficult family situation who has been in foster care numerous times into a super-affluent home with children younger than she is? Maybe it's hard to place Deja anywhere but Beth and Randall's house won't be an easy place to adjust to.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, watcher1006 said:

I have never been a social worker but I wonder a  bit about the criteria for foster placement. Is it the best idea to place a troubled teen or tween from a difficult family situation who has been in foster care numerous times into a super-affluent home with children younger than she is? Maybe it's hard to place Deja anywhere but Beth and Randall's house won't be an easy place to adjust to.

There's a shortage of foster families a lot of places, so I imagine they take what they can get.  I don't mean as abusive and whatnot.  But, I doubt there is the ability to be too picky in placement.

[ChromaKelly]

Kevin developing a pill addiction in the 90's is realistic. That's about the time opioid prescriptions started getting handed out left and right. My cousin was in an accident as a teen and became addicted to pain medication, and later harder drugs around the same time.
I didn't hate the foster kid storyline the way I thought I would. I liked the actress, and I'll second the comment that the little girls are adorable without being precocious. If Randall and Beth were real people, I'd steer them towards some foster/adopt Facebook groups for advice.
I almost like the kid versions of the Big Three more than the adults.
I did like having a Kevin storyline that wasn't just about his relationship to either Kate or Randall, it was just about him.
I'm to the point where I can't stand Jack. I don't like his greasy look and the way he talks. Of course he takes in a stray dog! Saint Jack.

7 minutes ago, watcher1006 said:

I have never been a social worker but I wonder a  bit about the criteria for foster placement. Is it the best idea to place a troubled teen or tween from a difficult family situation who has been in foster care numerous times into a super-affluent home with children younger than she is? Maybe it's hard to place Deja anywhere but Beth and Randall's house won't be an easy place to adjust to.

It's not advised, mostly the foster child being older than the children in the home. But yeah, there's a shortage and Beth and Randall would certainly not be turned down. 

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Also, I get that Stallone is an icon and a connection to Jack, but I don't like stunt casting.

It's jarring to me and takes me out of the moment.

Vanity Fair had an interesting take on this. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/10/this-is-us-recap-sylvester-stallone-season-2-episode-3-deja-vu?mbid=social_facebook

[AuxArx]

8 hours ago, candall said:

I'm SO disappointed you didn't ask about the song when they were about to make out in the car.  It was grit in my brain gears for an hour before I finally came up with "Why Judy Why" from Billy Joel's first album.  Come on, you wanted to know that, too, didn't you??

I never thought that I would need, need a friend . . .
 

My sister called me right after the show and said, "What was that song?!"  She finally Googled some of the words she remembered and found it (I liked Billy Joel but she had all the records) and then she called again to let me know what it was!  See, it wasn't just you wondering!

[Lion18]

I like how they are realistically handling Jack in the AA program ex- showing him doing his step work

i liked Kate the best in this episode than any other because she was shown as a real person when meeting Sly. She didn't have her usual nasty pouty face and attitude 

However I am not enjoying this season half as much as last year but will continue to watch hoping ...

[Conotocarious]

I am enjoying this season as much as last year. I see no drop off at all. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I thought it was a terrible move for Randall and Beth to be the ones to break it to Deja that her mother is probably getting a serious prison sentence, so soon after she arrives at their house.

Yes, and doing the whole Randall's family history on her first night in the house was for his benefit, not Deja's.  Too much info, too soon.  She doesn't need to hear that she's a "project".  I was putting myself in her place, and wow, she needs less intensity, not more. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I thought it was a terrible move for Randall and Beth to be the ones to break it to Deja that her mother is probably getting a serious prison sentence, so soon after she arrives at their house.

I really liked that Randall just gave it to her straight. She should know what's happening when it is something directly related to her and how her life will be affected by it. She's 12 years old so she's old enough to understand what's going on. She mentioned that she was waiting for her mother to show up and take her back, she should know that is not what is happening this time. I'm sure it was hard to hear but she needed to know.

My speculation is that as soon as Deja settles in and feels comfortable with Randall and family, her mother shows up at their door.

Not sure I'm liking the pill addiction story line if they go that way but it does make sense.

I thought that Metz nailed the look on Kate's face when Kevin called her "sad and damaged." I really felt what she was feeling there.

[llewis823]

12 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

I teared up with the Sly speech to Kevin. Not because of Kevin and Jack but because I was thinking about Sly and his son. 

Same here. I thought maybe he would mention his son but he didn't.

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and doing the whole Randall's family history on her first night in the house was for his benefit, not Deja's.  Too much info, too soon.  She doesn't need to hear that she's a "project".  I was putting myself in her place, and wow, she needs less intensity, not more. 

It might have been a misstep, but I do think his motive was to show her that there was every hope that things would turn out right for her. I don't feel in the least that he was doing it for himself.  Randall and Beth don't know what they're doing.  And, that's to be expected.  I'm glad they don't, because they've always just been a bit too perfect.

[Biggie B]

I was happy not to see Toby in this episode. I'm glad for Kate that she has a person in her life who adores her beyond measure, but it's also nice to see the two of them apart from each other for a minute or two. 

Each story is just a set up for more pain and heartache....Kevin: the damage being done by his bottled up/suppressed feelings, and his forthcoming pill addiction; Jack: yeah, well, we've known since day one that's he's a dead man walking; Randall & Beth: struggling with Deja (especially as evidenced by the previews for next week), and as another poster mentioned, it wouldn't be a shocker if they all do bond just in time for Deja to be removed once again; Kate: not sure what lies directly ahead, based on this particular episode, but whether it's her struggle to establish a singing career or dealing with Kevin's addiction, I don't see much positivity down the road for her.

So it was kind of a downer for me, in some ways. 

The young man playing TeenKevin has captured some of the same facial expressions and mannerisms as AdultKevin. When the three siblings were heading off to school or wherever, and Randall mentioned he had to "run an errand," followed by Kevin's flip remark about Randall becoming their mom,  and then Randall divulged where he was going and why, TeenKevin had a quick expression on his face that completely mimicked his older counterpart - that of "You're going WHERE to do WHAT?" coupled with him slightly drawing his face backwards like a turtle withdrawing into its shell.  He truly looked like AdultKevin for that split second. It was so quick and subtle but really well done. Kudos to that young actor and/or the director for enhancing a small but meaningful detail.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Biggie B

[screenaddict]

I have spent way too much time worrying about a fictional character, but I've always felt like Kevin was the forgotten child. Perhaps forgotten is a strong term, but he seemed to be the one who was easier to overlook. Kate and her dad had a special relationship, and her mother paid a lot of attention - albeit unhealthy attention - to her weight issues. Randall and his mom had a special relationship, and both parents were sensitive to his needs as an adopted child, a gifted child and a child of a different race. And then there was Kevin, who didn't seem to need his parents as much as the other two did (at least on the surface.) I'm glad this episode is starting to give us some insight into his relationship with his parents. I'm glad they are not writing him as a beautiful but shallow character. 

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, watcher1006 said:

I have never been a social worker but I wonder a  bit about the criteria for foster placement. Is it the best idea to place a troubled teen or tween from a difficult family situation who has been in foster care numerous times into a super-affluent home with children younger than she is? Maybe it's hard to place Deja anywhere but Beth and Randall's house won't be an easy place to adjust to.

Or to place a troubled almost teen with a first time foster family. I understand there is a shortage but to toss this girl into a family that has never had to care for a child with this history doesn't seem ideal for anyone.  How much instruction/training are potential foster parents given?  It's such an enormous responsibility. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Haleth

[lovetowrite73]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and doing the whole Randall's family history on her first night in the house was for his benefit, not Deja's.  Too much info, too soon.  She doesn't need to hear that she's a "project".  I was putting myself in her place, and wow, she needs less intensity, not more. 

Was it her first night in the house though? I thought the social worker said that she'd send the full case file once she got it. Would she have gotten it on the first day? I'm just wondering.

Seeing Deja's plastic bag full of her belongings reminded me of a charity that I support and the reality of foster kids traveling from home to home with just that. The charity has you decorate bags for foster children so they can at least have their things in something decent. The plastic bag was all too real. :(

[crocodile]

I didn't like this episode. I felt that Kate hijacked Kevin's work with more of her self-centered emotional outpourings. It's been twenty years since her father died, and she has been around celebrities before. Her fangirl conversation with Sly would have been an awkward thing to do with her brother's colleague even without failing to mention that the dad in question had been dead a long time. I'm not surprised that Kevin was thrown off by the subsequent Sly speech, or that Kevin was the one to contact Kate and apologize.

The idea that Kevin is in denial with unexpressed lingering anguish seems like a retcon. Last season he spoke openly about losing his father, including in the cabin and with the widow at the funeral. Now, he's apparently never been able to mention it. He did an entire play about death and loss last season without breaking, also.

Separately, I find it uncomfortable and odd that K&K refer to each other as twins when Jack & Rebecca made such a huge point of all three being triplets. Neither K has referred to Randall as anything but a brother.

Previously, they've presented that Jack and Miguel are close friends and the two couples interact. Rebecca being independent friends with Sherry well after that divorce makes Rebecca's subsequent marriage to Miguel more odd. It's one thing to fall for your late husband's closest friend, it's another when his ex is your confidante.

We are watching the stories unfold simultaneously, but the adult big three characters are now acting as though the pain of their father's death is immediate. Sure, they all had some issues last season, but they were actively attempting to resolve them (Kevin quit the Manny, Kate pursued weight loss, Randall searched for his birth father). Now it seems like all three triplets' lives revolve around the pain of their childhoods and specifically of losing their father. Randall and Kate have stopped working, and Kevin's now unable to perform at his job because of this. Twenty years on, that does not match them especially watchable adults. Knowing that the teens end up stunted makes their story less compelling, too.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, lovetowrite73 said:

Was it her first night in the house though? I thought the social worker said that she'd send the full case file once she got it. Would she have gotten it on the first day? I'm just wondering.

It was the second day.  She had woken the girls up the night before.

[NeverLate]

2 minutes ago, lovetowrite73 said:

Was it her first night in the house though? I thought the social worker said that she'd send the full case file once she got it. Would she have gotten it on the first day? I'm just wondering.

Seeing Deja's plastic bag full of her belongings reminded me of a charity that I support and the reality of foster kids traveling from home to home with just that. The charity has you decorate bags for foster children so they can at least have their things in something decent. The plastic bag was all too real. :(

Isn't that sad, we have a place to donate new or gently used suitcases, so the children can have them, instead of bags..

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The idea that Kevin is in denial with unexpressed lingering anguish seems like a retcon. Last season he spoke openly about losing his father, including in the cabin and with the widow at the funeral. Now, he's apparently never been able to mention it. He did an entire play about death and loss last season without breaking, also.

He's like Jack, he thinks he's okay. He even said to Kate he's not sad or damaged, but he is. He, like Jack, internalizes everything. At some point that has to come out. It will just manifest itself differently 

[Katy M]

Just now, crocodile said:

I didn't like this episode. I felt that Kate hijacked Kevin's work with more of her self-centered emotional outpourings. It's been twenty years since her father died, and she has been around celebrities before. Her fangirl conversation with Sly would have been an awkward thing to do with her brother's colleague even without failing to mention that the dad in question had been dead a long time. I'm not surprised that Kevin was thrown off by the subsequent Sly speech, or that Kevin was the one to contact Kate and apologize.

To be fair to Kate, I don't think she intended to tell him that her father had died.  She was just thanking him for the part he payed in Jack's in life.  But, when he invited the dad to come she told him.  I also blame him more for bringing it up to Kevin 3 seconds before their scene.  Kate didn't do that.  However, she should have just apologized and if she felt the need for a "you need to get in touch with your feelings" conversation done it some other time.  There's a time and place for everything and that clearly wasn't it.

 

2 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Separately, I find it uncomfortable and odd that K&K refer to each other as twins when Jack & Rebecca made such a huge point of all three being triplets. Neither K has referred to Randall as anything but a brother.

That doesn't really bother me all that much.  We know their grandmother referred to them as twins.  And, they are biologically twins (or 2/3 of triplets).  I don't think Randall resents that all.  I think it makes sense in this case to think of him as a brother who has the same birthday.

4 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Now it seems like all three triplets' lives revolve around the pain of their childhoods and specifically of losing their father. Randall and Kate have stopped working, and Kevin's now unable to perform at his job because of this.

I don't disagree with you that they are acting like it just happened.  But, Kate was Kevin's assistant.  she quit the job she briefly had to move to NY to be Kevin's assistant again.  She then quit that to focus on singing.  Not really having to do with her dad's death.  And Randall quit for a myriad of reasons, but I would put William's death as the impetus more than Jack's.  And, that was recent.

[OtterMommy]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think it might actually fit in. What we haven't gotten much of is how Kevin handled Jack's death, because he avoids talking about it. Kate dealt through food as well as feeling guilt over her role in his death, whether or not she's really at fault. Randall's addiction was being as perfect as possible. But Kevin? We never knew how he dealt with all of that, and I think the show is still in its early stages, and they also have done so little with Kevin when it's not about a girl, where it won't feel out of place. I mean, we'll see how it goes, but I think it'll be a good storyline. I've been wanting a personal Kevin storyline for a while. 

 

Re the possible addiction plot:  I'm also in the "shit, I don't want to see that" camp.  It's not that I don't think this is the right show for it or that it doesn't fit with the character (sort of), but it is feeling like Sophie 2.0 to me.  We haven't had any indication up to this point that Kevin had any sort of addiction issue and then, boom, there it is.  I sort of feel like, with Kevin, the Fogelman et. al. don't really know what to do with him so they just keep throwing stuff to see what sticks.  As a viewer, it is frustrating because we don't really get a good grasp on his character or where he's going.

It makes sense that Jack's biological children would have addiction issues, and we know that Kate has a food addiction.  So, it isn't out of character for Kevin to have his own addiction, but the way they are trying to give it to us just doesn't seem organic.

As for Randall's foster story line...is it bad that the one concern I had was the bedroom situation at the Pearson's.  After all, we know they ONLY HAVE 3 BEDROOMS!  But it sounded like Tess and Annie (who are so frickin' adorable!) were sharing a room because they were nervous about Deja, so whoever gave up their room for William must have moved back in.  So, now the house has 4 bedrooms?  I guess that Beth could have given up her office for good, but--yeah, that's where my mind went.

I have to say that I'm quickly losing interest in this show.  I wasn't as enamored with this episode as it seems many were and I think I figured out why.  I feel like this show is just treading water.  I was starting to feel this last year as they kept dragging out how Jack died, which they continue to do so.  But, honestly, I don't actually see any growth with either Kate or Kevin and Randall and family seem like they are on an entirely different show.  I think I gave a bit of a pass on this in the first season, simply because it was the first season, but they need to put the show on some sort of modern day trajectory, which I just don't feel like they are doing.  If I were in charge of things (ha ha!), I'd just get the whole Jack mystery taken care of and then start phasing out the "past" story lines and start focusing on the here and now.

[Aloeonatable]

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Also, I get that Stallone is an icon and a connection to Jack, but I don't like stunt casting.

Kevin is an actor, so to have a famous actor play himself doesn't seem like stunt casting to me, especially in a Ron Howard movie. 

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

If I were in charge of things (ha ha!), I'd just get the whole Jack mystery taken care of and then start phasing out the "past" story lines and start focusing on the here and now.

Not going to happen. Milo is the star of the show (first on the call sheet), so he isn't going anywhere, thus we will always see flashbacks. 

As for Kevin's possible addiction, as others have said it is in his DNA,  for him to become addicted to pain medication isn't a stretch for me. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, crocodile said:

The idea that Kevin is in denial with unexpressed lingering anguish seems like a retcon. Last season he spoke openly about losing his father, including in the cabin and with the widow at the funeral. Now, he's apparently never been able to mention it. He did an entire play about death and loss last season without breaking, also.

I actually have to disagree with this a little bit. Sure, he was a little more open when discussing those moments, but I think that he's always avoided talking about Jack. When he has, he's brought him up, rather than other people bringing him up around him. He also had a difficult time talking about Jack in the first season. With the widow, he broke down and he wasn't able to talk about how he felt about Jack's death. I can't quite remember what happened in the cabin, so I can't comment on that moment. But he's never been able to openly talk about Jack. He's much like Kate in that sense, but Kate's just getting help for her grief now, at the weight loss camp. 

Also, the fact that the show avoids talking about Jack in the present day scenes unless it's for some Really Big Emotional Scene, so that doesn't help matters. 

I remember Kevin and Miguel having a conversation about Jack; rather, Miguel was really talking about Jack, and I remember Kevin having a hard time with dealing with that conversation too.

I think, when he can control the dead dad conversation, he can hold it together. But when he's at the mercy of other people talking about him, he shuts down.

6 minutes ago, crocodile said:

I didn't like this episode. I felt that Kate hijacked Kevin's work with more of her self-centered emotional outpourings. It's been twenty years since her father died, and she has been around celebrities before. Her fangirl conversation with Sly would have been an awkward thing to do with her brother's colleague even without failing to mention that the dad in question had been dead a long time. I'm not surprised that Kevin was thrown off by the subsequent Sly speech, or that Kevin was the one to contact Kate and apologize.

I get this, but I actually kind of liked these moments. It was a nice change to see Kate not talking about her weight or Toby, and we got to hear a little bit about her feelings about Jack. That's a rarity for the present day scenes. It's not like she meant to ruin Kevin's scene. She was just mentioning how much their dad liked Sly and then she had to tell him that their dad was dead to avoid an awkward conversation (as he did tell her to bring her father down for an autograph; how else was she going to respond?). She had no idea Sly would mention it to Kevin right before the scene. 

I guess I just liked it because it's one of the rare times I loved Adult Kate. It showed character growth on her end, and it led to really great material later on. She was portrayed as being in the wrong in Kevin's eyes, but she was meeting a childhood hero. 

As for Kevin contacting Kate, he did say something incredibly mean and she was hurt, so he did have to call and apologize. I honestly liked the realism of their relationship in this episode. Kevin brought Kate down to see him act, he introduced Kate and Sylvester and was happy to see them conversing. I bet he was happy to see his sister happy. But, because of his avoidance with dealing with anything about their dad, he couldn't get past what Kate told Sly and snapped wrongfully at her. She doesn't have to avoid talking about their dad, even if Kevin wants to.

5 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I have to say that I'm quickly losing interest in this show.  I wasn't as enamored with this episode as it seems many were and I think I figured out why.  I feel like this show is just treading water.  I was starting to feel this last year as they kept dragging out how Jack died, which they continue to do so.  But, honestly, I don't actually see any growth with either Kate or Kevin and Randall and family seem like they are on an entirely different show.  I think I gave a bit of a pass on this in the first season, simply because it was the first season, but they need to put the show on some sort of modern day trajectory, which I just don't feel like they are doing.  If I were in charge of things (ha ha!), I'd just get the whole Jack mystery taken care of and then start phasing out the "past" story lines and start focusing on the here and now.

I agree that their show centering around Jack's Death is what is holding it down from becoming better. Because they have to avoid talking about Jack's death, it limits the conversations in the present to basically nothing about Jack, because they don't want to give anything away. They're showing all three starting to deal with their issues now instead of years ago because they want it played out onscreen.

Honestly, their best bet would have been showing Jack's death in the premiere...and then they could unravel the events surrounding it all season. That way, we know how Jack dies, the mystery of that is gone, and they can deal with the emotional resonance about it. They can talk about Jack more openly in the present day scenes and not make it seem like Jack doesn't exist until he has to. 

7 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Re the possible addiction plot:  I'm also in the "shit, I don't want to see that" camp.  It's not that I don't think this is the right show for it or that it doesn't fit with the character (sort of), but it is feeling like Sophie 2.0 to me.  We haven't had any indication up to this point that Kevin had any sort of addiction issue and then, boom, there it is.  I sort of feel like, with Kevin, the Fogelman et. al. don't really know what to do with him so they just keep throwing stuff to see what sticks.  As a viewer, it is frustrating because we don't really get a good grasp on his character or where he's going.

It makes sense that Jack's biological children would have addiction issues, and we know that Kate has a food addiction.  So, it isn't out of character for Kevin to have his own addiction, but the way they are trying to give it to us just doesn't seem organic.

I can understand this. My main reason for enjoying the idea of this storyline because it's not about Kevin and a girl. Literally, all of last season didn't show much personal growth, or even setback, to Kevin as an individual. Besides quitting The Manny, everything he did was about some female in his life. So him having a story of his own excites me. He's shown the most potential in all of the timelines, so I'm excited to see how they handle it. 

As for his pill addiction, I don't think I know anyone in my life with this addiction so I can't speak to how they would act on or off it. But I'm guessing he quit years ago, and he's avoided medications until this episode. I think, for me, I find it early in the series where it could make sense. We are still getting to know Kevin as a character. If this happened in season 3, then yeah, I'd call BS on them trying to find him a storyline. But early season 2 seems like a good time, since apparently they couldn't do it in season 1 since they wanted Kevin to just have multiple love interests to see which one would stick there. This, for me, feels like they've settled down with Kevin as a character, so they're allowing themselves to explore his inner issues with Jack. 

But, I still want to see how they handle this storyline. The show tends to pull back when it comes to Kevin, so I'm worried about the direction they go with this. I swear, if it's Sophie who gets him to stop taking the pills, I'll be a little more than pissed.

[NeverLate]

13 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Kevin is an actor, so to have a famous actor play himself doesn't seem like stunt casting to me, especially in a Ron Howard movie. 

I thought it was a brilliant addition, I'd be like Kate, non stop talking,  but anxious and overcome happy ,all rolled into one.LOL

[SongbirdHollow]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and doing the whole Randall's family history on her first night in the house was for his benefit, not Deja's.  Too much info, too soon.  She doesn't need to hear that she's a "project".  I was putting myself in her place, and wow, she needs less intensity, not more. 

Yeah, I'm bothered that to Randall getting a foster kid is more about what it means to him than, you know, the kid. She is a person, not your redemption, dude. 

[marceline]

I'm glad we got to revisit how Kevin is also repressing Jack's death. I remember the episode where he and British girlfriend (Olivia?) crashed a wake and he ended up in the kitchen with the widow crying. He's got as much work to do as Kate did.

I also thought it was cute that Rebecca said she was "Jack Pearsoning" her husband just like the way Beth said her husband was "Randalling" the adoption.

I was dreading the Stallone cameo but in the end I thought it was well done.