S16.E09: A Little Avant Garde

[ichbin]

18 hours ago, Miss Ruth said:

When did she apologize?  It certainly wasn't on the show I watched.

If anything, all she did was acquiesce, pretty much in the same way each of the sister's received negative critiques from the judges.  

[AZChristian]

One thing I'm not sure about, though.  Did M&M and others complain that Claire was using a tape measure in the apartment, or did they just complain that she was copying other designers' work?  Seems like Tim and the producers didn't do anything until an actual rule was broken.

As I said above, the difference is subjective (she's copying other designers' work), which can be written off as "there's nothing new under the sun, so it's not really copying, it's referencing," vs objective (everyone signed the same contract that expressly forbids using tape measures, paper, and pencils to work outside the workroom).  The former allows flexibility on the part of the judges; the latter requires elimination if discovered.

[film noire]

53 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

NOTE TO Mrs. Hadid-Foster-Hadid.   Does this help you understand how reckless your comments were?

Yep - shut up, Yo -- you're a lady who lunches, not a fashion goddess -- go eat some brunchausen.

Edited October 15, 2017 by film noire

[sleepyjean]

While I'm not a fan of Brandon's work, I don't think he did anything wrong by not incorporating chocolate into his design. This is how Tim described the challenge:

"Your challenge is to create an avant-garde look that is inspired by one of these young peoples' favorite Shopkins Shoppies characters. Each one of these young people has a different favorite Shoppie that they're very excited to tell you about. You will use the Shoppie and the young person's story to inspire your avant-garde look."

From what I saw, the children were there to tell the designers about the characters. The kids weren't the clients for this challenge. I was puzzled to see many of the designers busily scribbling down what the child wanted them to make. It didn't matter what the kid wanted or whether the kid liked the final design.

 

As far as the scandal and Claire's demise, I am firmly on the side of team M&M. I don't think Margarita deliberately wound Michael up, I don't think Michael "staged" his walk off for maximum benefit, I don't think they owed Claire the chance to defend (and perhaps conceal) her cheating, and I don't think either of them were insincere in their regret about the way it went down.

It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback the way they should have handled it, but it was an emotional, high-pressure situation, there was a lot at stake, they'd tried to draw attention to the cheating previously, and since they didn't have proof, it fell on deaf ears. I can absolutely relate to their experience. I've had times when I was dealing with a frustrating co-worker and blew off steam to another co-worker. (I've since learned to avoid that, as it has unexpected repercussions, just as M&M discovered. In fact, I'm in the middle of a situation just like that right now, and it is bloody difficult sometimes to keep my thoughts to myself.) I've had times when I've been so upset about being wronged by someone else that I stewed and stewed over it and absolutely could not set it aside and focus on the task at hand, no matter how much I wanted to. I have been in situations where I've watched someone who was not pulling their weight and/or was outright cheating, and watched that person get praised and rewarded, but kept silent so I wouldn't be the jealous a-hole. I've had times when I've been so frustrated for so long, I just exploded, and in the aftermath realized "oh crap, that's not really how I wanted this to play out." Once you explode like that, you set things in motion, and no longer have control over how the situation unfolds and the embarrassment and regret are real. I've been emotional, I've been less than mature, and it will happen again, because I'm human.

My hat is off to those of you who have never had these sorts of problems, who are always able to control your thoughts and emotions, and never struggled with behaving the way grownups ought. I'm just not there yet. And apparently, neither are M&M.

Edited October 15, 2017 by sleepyjean

[slothgirl]

On 10/13/2017 at 0:36 PM, wings707 said:

I don't think they had any idea a cheating scandal would result when they cast them.  I do think they saw their irritating personalities and went with that though. 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the twins were a plant and the Powers That Be scripted the entire debacle to make "good tv".

I don't see how either of them was cast based on any design ability. I can more easily believe that they were given "roles" to play to advance the "plot" that dictated that a cheating scandal would emerge in Act 2

Edited October 16, 2017 by slothgirl

[Broderbits]

23 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the twins were a plant and the Powers That Be scripted the entire debacle to make "good tv".

This sounds completely plausible given the past shenanigans of the show runners/writers. There have been way too many contestants obviously lacking in design or even sewing skills, not to mention the painfully "quirky" cast members. Any fashion happening is totally secondary to the reality crap.

[carrier76]

16 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

This sounds completely plausible given the past shenanigans of the show runners/writers. There have been way too many contestants obviously lacking in design or even sewing skills, not to mention the painfully "quirky" cast members. Any fashion happening is totally secondary to the reality crap.

I would say that in this season alone, the twins, Cha-Cha, Aaron, at least, are all purely stunt casting decisions, and it is not entertaining.

[susannot]

As far as the scandal and Claire's demise, I am firmly on the side of team M&M. I don't think Margarita deliberately wound Michael up, I don't think Michael "staged" his walk off for maximum benefit, I don't think they owed Claire the chance to defend (and perhaps conceal) her cheating, and I don't think either of them were insincere in their regret about the way it went down.

 

100% agree.

[Miss Ruth]

2 hours ago, ichbin said:

If anything, all she did was acquiesce, ....

Since she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar (or in the sewing box) she had no other choice,

[hoodooznoodooz]

5 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Technically speaking, that could mean that somebody actually tried to order one jacket. That would qualify as an increased demand.

Too funny!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 10/13/2017 at 9:21 AM, jrlr said:

Marchesa was launched in 2004 and was successful on its own, but did not become a red-carpet name until 2007 when The Beautiful Georgina Chapman married Harvey Weinstein, when the lecher started pushing stars of his movies to wear the Marchesa brand.  Not my definition of a love match as much as a power merger.   But who knows?

 

On 10/13/2017 at 0:13 PM, ichbin said:

The Beautiful Georgina Chapman quickly announced the divorce, but I'm not so sure she will be able to divorce her brand from him as quickly.  I read that Felicity Huffman confirmed he threatened promotion of one of her films if she didn't wear Marchesa to the red carpet events.  I expect more will come out about that as the days go by. 

Responding in the media thread.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm not on either Claire's or M&M's side.

Claire broke the rules and was bounced for it, so meh.

I haven't liked Margarita since she blatantly and aggressively threw her model under the bus. And then here with all her "I never meant for this to happen" bullshit. She's a passive aggressive little shit-stirrer and she can't even stick by her convictions. Michael is the same. Two peas in a pod really so I'm not surprised they are so close.

I like Brandon OK (although sometimes he's a bit too smug for me), but I am super tired of him making the same thing every week and every week being praised for it, even when it doesn't match the challenge at all. It's boring.

The only designers left I continue to enjoy as people and designers are Kentaro and Ayana. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Former Nun]

15 hours ago, sleepyjean said:

I've had times when I've been so upset about being wronged by someone else that I stewed and stewed over it and absolutely could not set it aside and focus on the task at hand, no matter how much I wanted to. I have been in situations where I've watched someone who was not pulling their weight and/or was outright cheating, and watched that person get praised and rewarded, but kept silent so I wouldn't be the jealous a-hole.

I could have written this!  Luckily, I've been retired (medically: lupus) since 1994, so 98% of those frustrations disappeared.  It happens at school, in various civic/service organizations, in the workplace...probably in churches.  Posters...please read SleepyJean's entire post 9-10 comments above.  Let's "likemind" that over the top!

[Impromptu]

On 10/14/2017 at 2:37 PM, nb360 said:

There's something fishy about this... Brandon's good, but really?

What probably happened is that PR sent copies of all the patterns to Dixie, but not the final designs (you'll notice there wasn't a Dixie person there judging the runway).  Dixie looked at the patterns, and picked Claire's and possibly picked Brandon as their second favorite.

So when it came to the runway show, the judges had to pick Claire and figure out some way to justify it, but since they were also judging the final clothing, they didn't need to have Brandon in the top 3, they could pick their other two favorite actual looks.  When Claire was disqualified, Dixie could say, ok, we still need a pattern, so we'll take our alternate print, Brandon's.  At that point, they could either go back and re-shoot the top 3 judging and include Brandon as part of the top 3/or 4 - and by doing so, lose all their precious drama - or just announce that there was no "winner" but that Dixie would use Brandon's pattern.  

Dixie probably decided later to give Brandon the cash, but that may have been a decision that happened long after the episode was edited, so the announcement wasn't part of the final cut.

[dleighg]

12 minutes ago, Impromptu said:

What probably happened is that PR sent copies of all the patterns to Dixie, but not the final designs (you'll notice there wasn't a Dixie person there judging the runway).  Dixie looked at the patterns, and picked Claire's and possibly picked Brandon as their second favorite.

 

so are you saying that if Dixie had liked, say, Batani's pattern best, the judges would make her the winner? I'm not buying it.

[BlackberryJam]

Dixie might have said, “We like these two, or three, those are the ones we want on a cup.” And then the judges took it from there based on the garments.

What is clear is that Brandon did nothing sneaky or underhanded to get his pattern on the Dixie Cup. He’d been sitting in the stew room throughout the judging. 

If I’m Dixie, I’d choose his pattern as being the cleanest and easiest to put on a cup and him as a designer specifically because he was not part of that drama on the runway. Dixie wanted to come out of this looking good. Choosing someone involved in the drama, and we have no idea who said what on the runway as that judging lasts hours and we get maybe 10 minutes, could have had a backlash. Choosing the pattern from a designer who was not even on the runway is a safe choice for Dixie.

[DEL901]

I don't know what happened before Claire's win, but for Brandon... Tim said that Dixie chose his pattern.  I think it was an easy choice for them.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:55 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

Amy and Bettani were Aufed for being dull and whacked,  respectively.

IMO,  Ayana should have won. Every judge raved over her pink avant-garde Bo Peep creation. 

But Michael's  sleeker and shinier Disco dress will probably be easier to reproduce in doll-size.

As for "The Case of the Mysterious Measuring Tape": Claire? Just no.   M&M? In the immortal words of a Manson girl: "Charlie doesn't like a snitch."

...gave Heidi a woody, because we all know it's really all about her after all, and if she can't wear something that shows off her chromosomes, she's not thrilled about it.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 10:06 PM, Straycat80 said:

I think Heidi said A 'version' of the design will be reproduced. 

See also;  loose interpretation, thinly veiled copy, completely unrecognizable from the PR garment, since it won't be remotely feasible to commercially market.  But hey, Shopkins.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 11:09 PM, Thumper said:

Michael's shiny design looked like it had a worm around the model's midsection.  Not flattering -- but maybe ok for avant garde challenge?   I still liked Ayana's better.

Margarita's was pretty and soft and kind of ethereal -- I liked it.

Remembering the greatness of the Chris March era of avant garde design!  Loved him.  Wonder what he is up to now.

I'm old enough to remember the first gazillion episodes of PR, when designers were consistently berated for creating a look that was "too costume-y".  For me, another blurred line on this show when discussing avant garde.  I kinda feel like avant garde and costume are kissing cousins, but perhaps that is why Ayana's wasn't awarded as the winner.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 11:44 PM, katalizt said:

In my opinion the only one that did.

Here too.  And frankly, the best garment she's done imo.

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, Former Nun said:

Let's "likemind" that over the top!

You guys!  You did it!  Hooray, SleepyJean....

[carrps]

I was at the hairdressers this past Saturday, and a woman walked in with a Dixie cup! But the design was the one they used as a prop during the episode -- the one with the black and white stripes and the green butterfly.

Anyone seen Brandon's design in the wild?

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I'm old enough to remember the first gazillion episodes of PR, when designers were consistently berated for creating a look that was "too costume-y".  For me, another blurred line on this show when discussing avant garde.  I kinda feel like avant garde and costume are kissing cousins, but perhaps that is why Ayana's wasn't awarded as the winner.

This is just my own opinion, but I feel:

All avant-garde fashions are costumes, but not all costumes are avant-garde. (If that makes sense!)

The question I ask myself (realizing the answer is completely subjective) is: "Is it art?" And, if the answer is "Yes," then "Is it saying something? What is the artist (designer) trying to tell me with this piece?" Basically, the same questions I'd ask myself when wandering through a museum, looking at the various paintings and sculptures.

To me, avant-garde fashion IS sculpture, except instead of being displayed on a base or hung from the wall or ceiling, it's "hung" on a human body.

Edited October 16, 2017 by TwirlyGirly

[SuprSuprElevated]

On 10/13/2017 at 3:05 AM, fredproof said:

I didn't like this challenge very much and none of the designs really stood out to me for the right reasons. The kids were cute, but the whole Shopkins idea was uninspiring. Every challenge this season is to promote some sponsorship that has nothing to do with fashion. I remember the episode in season 4 where they visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art and had to make an avant garde look inspired by art. All of the looks were so beautiful and inspiring. Sure there were sponsorships back then, but at least they were somehow related to fashion. I feel bad for Tim when he has to plug all this stuff, but I suppose it's the only way to keep the show going.

I'm waiting for "don't forget designers, you need to take your models to the Pennzoil hair & makeup room in one hour, and be sure to make thoughtful use of the Ducks Unlimited accessory wall."  It's getting out of control.  Is their sales force so weak that they can't drum up some sponsorships from relevant, trendy corporations?  'Cuz I'm available...where should I send my resume'?

[jrlr]

21 hours ago, film noire said:

Yep - shut up, Yo -- you're a lady who lunches, not a fashion goddess -- go eat some brunchausen.

Never having seen any of the real housewives shows (I guess that's where she's from)  I had no idea who she was.  My immediate reaction (after who the hell is this facelifted botoxed woman?) was who the fhell is this facelifted, botoxed, mouthy, ugly fame whore?  

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

This is just my own opinion, but I feel:

All avant-garde fashions are costumes, but not all costumes are avant-garde. (If that makes sense!)

The question I ask myself (realizing the answer is completely subjective) is: "Is it art?" And, if the answer is "Yes," then "Is it saying something? What is the artist (designer) trying to tell me with this piece?" Basically, the same questions I'd ask myself when wandering through a museum, looking at the various paintings and sculptures.

To me, avant-garde fashion IS sculpture, except instead of being displayed on a base or hung from the wall or ceiling, it's "hung" on a human body.

Fair enough.

[Pallida]

Apologies if I’ve missed someone else saying this in the thread, but when Brandon opted not to go chocolatey, I was relieved. Nothing worse than looking like a diarrhea accident. 

I was walking behind a young woman wearing a romper on a college campus recently. The romper had kind of a watercolor leaf pattern, including some brown ones. Looked like poop smears on her butt. 

[babs j.]

I wonder if either Claire or Shawn will be on the reunion show.  Shawn didn't cheat but maybe, if invited, she wouldn't go without the twin who did most of her work - which could be considered a form of cheating.  I remember the man being kicked out in whichever season it was - 2? but I can't remember if there were reunion shows then.

[Miss Ruth]

42 minutes ago, babs j. said:

Shawn didn't cheat...

We don't know that.  Since they always seem to do things together, I think it's safe to say Shawn was doing the same thing,  Of course, it seemed she couldn't sew, so maybe she couldn't measure either.:)

[sleepyjean]

7 hours ago, Former Nun said:

You guys!  You did it!  Hooray, SleepyJean....

:-) hugs

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, babs j. said:

Shawn didn't cheat

Shawn did little if any work herself.  I consider that cheating...even if Tim did give a little leeway.  "Helping" has many connotations.

[sleepyjean]

2 hours ago, babs j. said:

Shawn didn't cheat...

Margarita at 7:21: "The one thing that was wrong - and really really wrong - was the tape measure, right? Claire and Shawn both were using the tape measure. She was gone by the time that this all came up to the judges, but it was something that we knew and we kind of were like trying to put out there."

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by sleepyjean

[meowmommy]

Just noticed that Brandon's cups, with credit, are a featured deal on Amazon.  Also listed as #1 New Release in Disposable Cups.

Edited October 17, 2017 by meowmommy

[Tabbygirl521]

25 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Just noticed that Brandon's cups, with credit, are a featured deal on Amazon.  Also listed as #1 New Release in Disposable Cups.

Hmm. It's OK but really? $25,000? I feel like I've doodled something similar in Illustrator. 

[Nancypants]

I just saw it.

Batanui Amy, you are good people and  pure class!

Claire, I am so ashamed of you ( and Shawn)  Fuck. You. , you SUCK! Plus, own your shit. You cheated, you are an embarrassment.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, meowmommy said:

Just noticed that Brandon's cups, with credit, are a featured deal on Amazon.  Also listed as #1 New Release in Disposable Cups.

Heh, that's a REALLY specific category.

[Lady Iris]

I tell ya, the reunion show is gonna be a good one this year. I'm looking forward to it.

Ayana's creation was so much fun. I was sorry it didn't win. Michael's was good but Ayana's was more impressive imo. I wanted that big pink bow for my bed.

[BlackberryJam]

9 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Hmm. It's OK but really? $25,000? I feel like I've doodled something similar in Illustrator. 

That could be said about every cup design, Kleenex box design, paper plate design, napkin print...

Dixie needed a publicity boost and that's what they were paying for, complicated artwork. Dixie Cups have gotten more attention this week based on PR than they have...well probably in a decade. For them, it's money well spent.

[hoodooznoodooz]

11 hours ago, meowmommy said:

Just noticed that Brandon's cups, with credit, are a featured deal on Amazon.  Also listed as #1 New Release in Disposable Cups.

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heh, that's a REALLY specific category.

 

I cannot begin to imagine the disappointment the other two entrants must be experiencing.

[prunieprune]

I feel like a Dixie cup design is off brand for Brandon.  Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but he seems like a eco-conscious, sustainability type of designer and person.  Disposable paper cups for your coffee that look snazzy are not about sustainability.  

[Jobiska]

I was doing today's Wonderword (word search puzzle) in my morning paper and the topic was Shopkins.  I was pleased and yet perturbed to find "Popette" in the puzzle without having to refer to the key.

In addition, I found an accidental word, which I think the puzzle creators usually try hard to avoid:  "Turd."  Or perhaps it was referring to chocolatey blobs...

I'm not surprised Dixie preferred Brandon's.  They flashed on 3 different color schemes, one with pink, one light blue, and one the dark blue show above; I knew that they wouldn't like Kentaro's fuschia or Kenya's butterfly print because those would be harder to make not pink.  I think they'd want a wider range than pink, because there are probably plenty of people who wouldn't want a "girly-colored" cup for wide use.  

[Bebecat]

I don't see where the line is, I guess for helping vs. cheating. I think the ridiculous twins cheated all the way through, neither should be on reunion but of course, will be...

Edited October 17, 2017 by Bebecat

[Jobiska]

We go by what the show tells us.

Helping/doing the work for each other:  Not cheating.

Creating something inspired by your own clothes:  Not cheating.

Creating something inspired by other contestants' work:  Not cheating.

Creating something inspired by outside designers:  Not cheating, and sometimes you get praised for it (many), and sometimes you get smacked (Kenley).

Using any tools in your off time (from a tape measure to a pattern book)/doing any work other than thinking in your head in off time:  Cheating!!!!!!

It's not what we, the viewers, feel is morally right.  It's what is written in the rules they agreed to.

[Miss Ruth]

4 hours ago, prunieprune said:

I feel like a Dixie cup design is off brand for Brandon.  Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but he seems like a eco-conscious, sustainability type of designer and person.  Disposable paper cups for your coffee that look snazzy are not about sustainability.  

If that's the case and he stands behind his convictions, he should have bowed out and asked that the money be given to Kentaro, and that his design be used. 

 

The Dollar Tree sells some nice looking "to go" cups.  :)

Edited October 17, 2017 by Miss Ruth

[susannot]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heh, that's a REALLY specific category.

WHOA, something to be really proud of as a fashion designer!  The 25K, on the other hand--happy for Brandon.  He talked about how poor he is on the show.  Other than Amy and the Entitled Twins, I imagine most of them are  poor.

[Former Nun]

17 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Hmm. It's OK but really? $25,000? I feel like I've doodled something similar in Illustrator. 

Who's your choice for winner?

[Tabbygirl521]

28 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Who's your choice for winner?

I dunno. I don't dislike Brandon's but wow, $25K. Nothing against him. It just seems like Dixie probably had a graphic designer on staff who could have doodled that out. 

I liked Kentaro's bright colors but not sure it would have translated. Overall I guess I was just not that pumped about this challenge. 

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I don't dislike Brandon's but wow, $25K.

I agree about the amount.  Seems kind of excessive for any of the designs--maybe it was cheap advertising for Dixie.  Still, I'm just glad a Project Runway sponsor is giving anything.  The show has become extremely cheap.

[morakot]

4 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Using any tools in your off time (from a tape measure to a pattern book)/doing any work other than thinking in your head in off time:  Cheating!!!!!!

And previously, using your own clothes as a pattern when you're in the workroom: Not cheating.

 

We have an agreement at work to take a problem to the person who can solve it, rather than stand around and vent or gossip about it.  (Points further deducted for talking about the problem within earshot of the person who caused it in a language that person does not understand.) 

As for cheating and breaking the rules, all rules on PR are flexible and bendy.  It's been suggested elsewhere that it would be wonderful if we the viewers got to hear what the rules are for the competition and for each challenge. As it is, we end up with situations where Tim has one idea about the criteria for a challenge and the judges have completely different ideas. I would bet the general rules for the competition are equally as vague.

 

I, personally, was not impressed by Michael's winning design. I've never been a fan of the tumor style of avant garde fashion but it's been around for a long time., at least since the 1980's. See this vintage Comme des Garcons dress (which looked very familiar to me...)

 

It looks okay-ish on absolutely sticklike models - I can't see how well it would translate to the more child-like proportions of a Shoppie doll unless it's a straightforward disco jumpsuit. 

As for his behavior in Cheat-a-lago, it would be unlikely that he would see Shawn or Claire go into a bathroom at the residence with a pair of pants and a tape measure. I understood the rooms are single gender only. He would only know that by hearsay from one of the women. 

 

I don't deny that the twins were annoying and lacking in inspirations and should have been auf-ed weeks ago. I think they were kept for maximum drama and removed with maximum drama -- much of it stirred up and encouraged by producers and by other attention-seeking designers in the group.

[Miss Ruth]

1 hour ago, morakot said:

...it would be unlikely that he would see Shawn or Claire go into a bathroom at the residence with a pair of pants and a tape measure.

Michael said Claire told him what she was doing.

[theatremouse]

On 10/12/2017 at 7:19 PM, TexasGal said:

I loved how she kept saying “I measured a TANK TOP!” Like that made it no big deal.  Except you’re supposed to be a designer and you apparently can’t figure out how to make a TANK TOP without measuring one secretly. 

She reminded me of a shoplifter who stole, say, a candy bar from a convenience store, getting caught and saying "but it's just a candy bar" as if that magically makes it not shoplifting because the value of the item is inconsequential.

[AZChristian]

7 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

She reminded me of a shoplifter who stole, say, a candy bar from a convenience store, getting caught and saying "but it's just a candy bar" as if that magically makes it not shoplifting because the value of the item is inconsequential.

"And I have plenty of money to pay for it . . . here, take the money."  Sorry, folks - once you stole it, you stole it.  Once you measured in the bathroom, you measured in the bathroom.  Letting them take the tape measure (as she originally offered) doesn't mean you didn't cheat.